Journey's Neal Schon

The guitar hero opens up about 'Freedom,' Journey's first new album of new material in over a decade. He also discusses recent changes to the group's lineup, their epic upcoming tour, and exactly how he wrote the iconic solo for "Don't Stop Believin'."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan Runtag, but
enough about me. My guest today is the definition of
a guitar hero, and he's been one since way back
while he was still in his teens, he faced a
choice should he join a band with Eric Clapton or
fellow Bay Area resident Carlos Santana. He opted for Santana,

(00:22):
setting him on the path to rock immortality. He and
several other Santana vets with branch off the form a
little band you may have heard of called Journey. He's
responsible for so much of the multi platinum band's music
over the years, including Wheel in the Sky, Open Arms, Faithfully,
Anyway You Want It, and of course Don't Stop Believing,
which recently became only the second tune to ever break

(00:44):
one billion streams on Spotify. Now, Journey or Back with Freedom,
their first album of new material and over a decade.
We'll talk about the new tracks, classic hits, and what's
to come on his own musical Journey. I'm so happy
to welcome Mr Neil Shawn. I am just absolutely loving

(01:04):
this new record. Congratulations. I mean, for me, it's up
there with escape in terms of just energy and song craft.
It's so awesome, you know what. I'm really like proud
of this record. You know how it all came about.
There was like no pressure to make it. We had
a lot of time on our hands while everybody was down,
you know, and uh, I just went about it in

(01:27):
a really natural way, uh, not a forced way at all,
you know. I mean I was working with Narta Michael
Walden the whole time. Um As we live close to
each other, so we were able to get together and
actually play together. Well, everybody else had to overdub, you know.
But um, I've made a lot of records in my

(01:49):
life so far, and you know, made a lot of
records just starting with drums and guitar, and so there's
a lot of life there, you know, especially in today's
age of computers and pro tools and you know, people
working just on a computer. I mean, him and I
came from an old school place of playing you know,

(02:10):
lead guitar with drums and laying it down and a
lot of soul like like let It Rain. You know,
that was just a live jam. Like I walked in
the studio one day and he goes, well, what do
you want to do? And I go, well, I got
this riff, you know, I'm messing around with and it
was kind of funky. It reminded me of Chaka Khan

(02:30):
and you know, Prince and Henrix and you know, so
he's like, you know, so badass on the drums like that,
and so I thought I gave like a little different
struck going, and you know, we just started jamming and
and we left it there. You know, I arranged it
as it went down into my head, not knowing where

(02:51):
the vocals would go, and just kind of jammed through it.
And we left it alone for months, and then we
came back to and listened to it, and I went,
that's awesome, man, let's work on this. It sounds it
was almost the one that got away. Yeah, well, you
know what, there's a bonch. Actually, um, there's fifteen on
this record, six um for the Japanese release, but we

(03:15):
did about thirty five songs and a lot of them
are are are very good. We did shows the ones
we did because we levitated that way, and the vocals
lended itself to go that way, you know, after Jonathan
got through with it and writing lyrics and stuff and
so he worked on the ones that kind of hit him, uh,

(03:37):
you know the hardest when we sent him to him. Uh,
and you know this is what we got. Oh, it's
so awesome. I know, looking at the credits and here
on the record, it sounds like you're playing a lot
more keyboards on this album than normal. What's uh? What? What?
What triggered that? Well, you know what, the pandemic actually
triggered it. I'm gonna blame it on the pandemic. But

(04:00):
you know, I'm with months and months going by and
never imagined that, you know what we would be, you know,
sitting at home for so long and not working, and
so to do the album, for one was just a blessing.
But besides that, I had to figure out a way
to get inspired every day just you know, keep up

(04:20):
my craft. And so I started, you know, playing keyboards
more and looping, you know, looping into a stereo looper,
playing bass with my left hand, you know, on the
keyboards and then over dubbing strings, and you know, I
just sort of got more into voicinges, like keyboard voicinges,
and you know, wrote a lot from the keyboards. A

(04:45):
lot of stuff was written on guitar as well, but
you know it brings you to for myself being a
guitar player. Really it I write in a different vein
when I sit on keyboards, and in a different melodic vein.
And uh, it's sort of because I don't play that well.
You know. Uh, A lot of things are more simplified.

(05:06):
You know. I orchestrate, well, it takes me forever in
the studio, you know, where somebody like Jonathan or accomplished
keyboard player could like do these overdubs in a second,
where I was out there for hours, I'm like, no,
Jim right with our engineer, I'm like, punch me. And again,
that isn't what I wanted to play, because you know,
I don't know anything about him. I don't I don't

(05:27):
really read music. I don't look at a black and
white keys. I just go by ere and I'm like
that sounds right, this doesn't you know? And you know
Jonathan was really busy doing all the different things. Then
I felt like we're not and I worked this stuff up,
the stuff that we did together. I then started even

(05:50):
playing bass on it. I played bass on it, I
played keyboards, I sang on it. We sang begs. A
lot of the bgs ended up on the album and
just reinforced by Jason and John you know in RNL.
But you know, I mean it was pretty much we
were doing everything in there, you know, and trying to

(06:12):
um before we sent it out to to Jonathan or
Arnell or Randy who had like a basic you know,
I wanted them to hear the vibe or what I
was hearing in my head and what we were hearing
because an Art and I were co producing it, and
so you know, I didn't want to, you know, end
up with my base on the record, but I ended

(06:33):
up playing pretty good where Randy Jackson just took what
I played like on Rain, I did all that Jack
Bruce stuff and I'll love you know, and then Randy
just took it to another level. You know, he's a
way better bass player, but he could get the vibe.
But what I was what I was going for, you know,
by the demo of how I played on it. What
was it like working with Randy again the first time

(06:55):
since Race on radio right? And you know, I I
love Brandy to dad. You know, He's just such a
great person for one and positive person to be around,
as well as Narda. You know, it was. It was
really great to have that fresh energy, you know, coming
from a fresh new rhythm section, and you know, we

(07:18):
got this new stout about it. You know, it was like,
you know, there was a new dance going on. And uh,
you know, I love Brandy. I talked to him every day.
Has been very involved in this record, helping me, uh
get on management, you know with BMG. Like I have
meetings every Monday with b MG and we get on
and we talk about strategy, about singles, what we're gonna do,

(07:40):
how many interviews are going to do. I mean, I've
been like cramming it man, for real. Oh man, I
mean it's it's funny. I mean now that after the
last two years, everybody's kind of starting to get back
out of the title freedom really has a special ring
to it these days. What led you to that? Uh
that title? You know, the title goes back along ways
um our. You know former manager and original manager Herbie

(08:05):
Herbert Um before we finished Raised on Radio and before
it was called Raised on Radio, he always came up
with these titles for our albums, you know, and they
were one word titles. And I love that and this
in particular, Records Steve produced and you know, took ahold
of he didn't want to name it. You know, he

(08:28):
fought with her be about it, and he ended up
winning and he got you know, raised on radio. So
it sat there for many years, and um, you know,
we we went through a lot of help in the
past couple of years with the lawsuit with the X
band members all that. When we got through it all,

(08:49):
I was like, why don't we did she use freedom
for everything? We use freedom for you know, the new
ll C s that that John and I you know
made up. And then you know, album title came and
we were throwing around album titles and I go, right,
not freedom, just make everything freedom everybody. You know, that's
what they want right now they've been locked down. It's

(09:11):
what everybody wants in the world anyway, you know. It's like,
so it just seemed like a natural choice of an
album title and for everything. Really, I love the video
that you guys have for the way we used to
be the animated video for the couple in the in lockdown.
I thought that was a very very sweet way to

(09:32):
show kind of what we're all going through. Oh, you
gotta get back to the way we used to be.
Yes yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Um, that's funny. You call
it the way we used to be. That's what it
ended up being. I always called it you I Gotta
get Back, and so it was implanted in my head
that the title was I Gotta Get Back. Yeah, but yeah,

(09:55):
that that was from Randy. That was Randy's idea actually,
uh um and some you know artists that he knew
that did that type of work, video work, and so
we went with his idea, and you know, that's it's
it's something different than we've never done before. Um, certainly
better than trying to do a storyboard for us, as

(10:18):
you can see from our past, you know, separate ways
and yeah, especially during lockdown too. It's gotta be tough.
Yeah yeah, but you know, live videos, it's either you know,
the cartoon thing was al read a lot of people
like this. Some people didn't like it. They're like, I
don't get it for Journey, But I thought it was
interesting and a good idea for you know, being a

(10:41):
time that we couldn't all be together and actually do
a live video. I mean you were talking earlier about
how let It Rain kind of came about from a
group jam that coalesced together in the studio, and then
you have stuff like, you know, the way we used
to be, something that sounds like it was much more done,
you know, individually at home on a keyboard or something.
Do you have a up away that you prefer to
to write you prefer to do it in the room

(11:02):
with the other guys. Who'd you prefer to to sit
down and sort of composed or does it depend on
what you're trying to say? You know, what I like
to do, what I found that I like to do
is and what we've done in the past, you know,
with some of our bigger records is you know when
it was Steven and John and I way back, we
would sit around a piano I said, with acoustic guitar

(11:25):
and the three of us would bang it out. Then
we'd get together and we'd rehearse as a band before
we went into his studio to record and play it
as if we were gonna walk on stage. So if
I'm gonna play fills in between, the vocals are gonna
do it live right and not go oh, I'll just

(11:46):
do it later. You don't want to get to an
overdubbed stage because I hate overdubbing like that. I think
it's always better when you're playing as a band to
play live. You know, so many people just don't do
that anymore, and it doesn't have that at that flow
or that flare um, and it doesn't sound authentic, you know,
like it happened in the moment, and so um, I

(12:10):
like the way we went about this record, just because
of the way the record came about and we didn't
have a ton of material walking in, but I got
to get back to the way we used to be.
That came from my keyboard plane. You know. I played
the keyboard part and I in the whole song, and
that was it. And I sent it to Jonathan and

(12:31):
he finished, you know, the lyrics and sang the rough
vocal and that was it was like, and everybody over
dubbed on it and it was done. That's such a
great track, I think. I remember you saying that that
songs like lights and Patiently came together really quickly. Do
you find that that the best songs kind of come fast,
almost fully formed. Yeah, definitely, most definitely. I think that. Um,

(12:55):
you know, there's there's you know, two ways agoing about it,
you know, and in trusting songs have become big Um,
coming about from working on it for a while, like
don't stop believing, you know, lights came, you know. Steve
had most of the song put together, a recall being
down in in Greg Rawley's uh you know downstairs area

(13:18):
where we sit around on bean bags with piano and guitar.
Ampson kind of kicks stuff around, you know, in his
house in Mill Valley and Parrots Steve Parrot. Perry played
drums as well as bass and a little bit of guitar,
but he had a bass on and he was like
playing more of an R and B group, you know,

(13:40):
not the stroll that I put it to after I
wrapped the chords around it, like the Hendrix as you know,
Sean cords. I'm gonna own it too right now, you know.
But um, you know he was singing it, and you
know what better instrumenting you have when you're singing a
melody as the route it's a base, you know, because

(14:02):
he changed one note in the base and it changes
the whole melody of what you're singing. It really doesn't
matter what everything else is doing. That's all like you know,
I've seen on the cake and so the root note
and then the main melody is it? And so I stopped,
you know, I listened to what he did, and I said,
what if we started like this? And I did this

(14:22):
little rolling you know, rhythm part that the song starts like,
and then I put it into the old stroll kind
of field, you know, rather than a straightforward R and
B funk field and UM. Then I wrote the bridge um,
and he sang on it and I played a guitar
solo over it. It was that was it, you know,

(14:44):
a song like Don't Stop Believing. We were in my
uh studio over in Oakland that I took over from
Larry Graham years ago after I played with him, and
that was sort of our That was our clubhouse for
writing all that stuff and rehearsing for as you know,
all our material and getting ready to go on tour. Uh.

(15:04):
We Jonathan brought in you know, uh opening chords for
the verse UH for Don't Stop Believing, and he had
you know, the hook uh and the lyrical content that
his dad had told him, you know, like don't stop
believing in son, You'll get there. You know. He was
starting to lose hope in the music industry and having
a tough time, you know, surviving in it, which can

(15:28):
be difficult man, especially in today's day and age. I
mean it was difficult back then as well. But you know,
we brought that in he's saying, you know, the melod
he had, And then we sat there and we just,
like I thought about it for a second. It was
mainly the three of us before Smith and Ross came
in on it, but uh, it sat there, and then

(15:50):
I started thinking, you know, we need like a motown
type baseline to follow, and so then between John and
I we came up that don't doo doo doo doo
doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Yeah,
and and so then you know, I came up with
the B section. We looked for a B section to go,

(16:12):
but where's it got to go from here? And I
went strange and wait in U you know, and it
was like, yeah, they go all right down, and so
we did die. Then we went back to a verse. Right,
We're thinking, well, do we need to go to a
chorus because by now where everybody's looking at their watch,
which is really tedious, like how many minutes has it

(16:36):
been since we haven't gotten to the chorus? You know,
and I said, who gives a fun? Yeah? So you know,
I started playing the little train guitar thing, which sounds
like you know, I used to listen to symphonies and
I played clarinet nobo in high school. And dad's a
big band arranger. Yeah, yeah, And I just heard the

(16:58):
thing didn't and didn't and didn't like a symphony type part.
And I started playing all right, and they go, well,
I really like that. So instead of going to a
verse right away in the second verse, that little mini
guitar solo, whatever you wanna call it, that happened, and
that actually brought the lyrics that came next. But you know,
she took the midnight train going anywhere because they thought

(17:20):
it sounded like a train. So those are the good
things that happened when you work together, when you have
chemistry with guys, you know, and you bounce off each other,
the lyrical content everything kind of flows, you know, while
you're in the room together, and then you know it,
we went back to another B section, strangers waiting, and

(17:42):
then it came time for a little mini guitar so
and so I go, what am I going to play? Man?
It's so short? Uh? And I'm thinking, oh, we haven't
even hit the chorus yet. As the first song we've
ever done, I think that didn't hit the chorus until
the end of the song, right, And so I go,
I'm gonna play. I think I'm gonna play the course.

(18:04):
And I remember Perry looking at me and going, you're
really gonna do that? You can play that? I would
even sung me yet, you know. He was kind of
pissed about it, and I went, well, yeah, why wouldn't
I it's a setup, man, Why should I not implanted
in everybody's head before you sing it? And he was

(18:24):
like okay, And so you know, we did it and
the rest was history, you know. And I recall when
we finished it in the studio and we're listening down
to very close to final mixes, and I looked at
the guys and I go, I don't know, there's something
about this song. I think it's gonna be massively huge,

(18:47):
you know. And when they released it, I believe it
only it went to like number eight. It was always
a very big song, you know, live for us, but
many of our songs were like lights Now is like
and at big anthem, like don't stop believing? If not
bigger live. You know, the whole place lights up. They
all sing it louder than I can hear the band,

(19:09):
and so, you know, just things kind of take on
their own organic state of you know, how people are
going to perceive them and accept them. What is your

(19:31):
process of of constructing a solo. Is it something that's
more sort of that you prefer to do in the
moment when, as you said, like with with the band,
or is it something that you really sit down and
um construct to playoff potentially the lyrics. I know that
that your solo inspired the lyrics, but don't stop believing.
But is it something that um, yeah, I just I'm

(19:52):
curious about how much of it is pre planned versus
how much of it is just does a different take
to take and in the moment, you know what. I'm
always I have to honestly say, there's very few solos
that I ever planned out, uh and and worked on.
They just kind of flew out in the moment. And
I found that the more I thought about it, the worst, say, God,

(20:15):
you know I had to work on something. You know,
we'd always go back to the first take, um, whatever
producer we were using, whether it was Roy Thomas, Baker
or whomever, you know. I mean, it was always like
the first take and second take at the most, and
the third suck and the fourth socked worse. And so
you know, I just like I would come in and

(20:38):
just kind of be able ready to accept as long
as it had the soul and the feeling of the song.
Main thing for me, especially in Journey, is to convey
the melody, the vocal melody after you know, they get
done singing, you know, because Journey songs are all about melody.

(21:02):
You know, it's not about a lot of abstract stuff.
Even though I love that stuff too, it's not the band,
you know. So I tried to to play what is
needed in the song, not what I want to play,
you know. I mean we had fights about it, you know,
years ago for the song like Who's Crying now? You know,
it's another when John first came into the band, he

(21:24):
brought that song in along with Open Arms, and I
was like, what the funk am I supposed to do
with this? You know, don't I don't get it, man,
you know, And and they've become like the biggest hits,
you know. But but I struggled in the studio playing
the solo on Who's Crying Now, because I was trying

(21:46):
to do more with it, you know, I was trying
to make it more musical because I just thought that
the song was so simple and it was like a
pop song, a pretty pop song. But I was trying
to put a little bit like, you know, just musical
expression in it, and trying to play more like a
horn player rather than a simple guitar part. And I

(22:09):
remember everybody was in the studio when I was out there,
and it just was not coming out, you know, and
if it doesn't come out of me in the first
couple of days, everybody gets really frustrated. And so they did,
and they were like, just play the simplest fucking thing
you can think of, you know, and I was out
of I was kind of like being a smartass, I believe,

(22:29):
and you know, kind of lumb from the neck up
back in those days. And you know, I don't know
many drinks or whatever we had, you know, and I went, Okay,
I'll fix them. You know, I'm gonna just play this
stupid little melody doing it, and and I thought it
was gonna be like, you know, like they'd go, come on, man,
what are you doing? You know, because they kind of

(22:51):
got under my skin. There you go, that was perfect.
Oh I'm like, oh no, what did I do? And
then it turns out to be like, you know, one
of the classic solos that everybody sings every night I have.
I don't have a clue sometimes about you know, what
people are really gonna like and what they're not gonna

(23:13):
like from me. I like it all. But you know
what people what catches on is the simplicity definitely, you know,
you know, knowing Less Paul and becoming pretty good friends
with him for for years. He always when we were talking,
we talked about melody and you know, the first time

(23:34):
I went to play with him at the Ridium and
New York City, I was in the studio with the
guys and we were recording our first album with Steve A.
Jerry singing Rival and and uh, we're recording the whole
album in New York. So we went, you know, our
producer at the time, Kevin Shirley, said let's go down
and see Less Paul, and I said great, So we

(23:56):
went saw him. I'm sitting in the audience and I'm
not gonna name any names, but two very good guitarists
got up, you know, and I didn't know he was
gonna call me up later. But they were playing like
every note in the fret board, you know, and not
playing too much melody. Unless was the funniest guy. I mean,
he was like, you know, it was like the Jackie
Glease and Les Paul hour with him and Loop follow

(24:19):
He was quick, man, really really quick and really really
you know, like Zappi you know people and uh funny,
you know. I mean he's been known to unplugged people
on stage if they played too many notes. You know.
He just like they'd be like looking up at the
ceiling and playing and they just like take the cord out.

(24:41):
And so he goes, you know, all these guys, these
two guys are playing all these notes, and he looks
over in him after they get then he goes, all right,
you're done, and he and he goes, uh, that would
never end. Then he go, oh yeah, I'm gonna be
humming out one all night long. And I was like, ouch, man,

(25:01):
it's like any glue in here, you know. And so
then he called me up out of the blue, you know,
and I was like, oh man, I don't want to
be put on the spotlight. So I tried to be
really respectful, you know, and just you know, I just
goofed around a bit and you know, plays some bluesy
jazzy licks, and I guess he really liked that. He

(25:23):
you know, I played one of his guitars that were
on stage, and he gave it to me afterwards and
signed it. It was the coolest guy when we became
friends after that. But he always talked about melody, you know,
how important melody is, and you know he could do
it all. Yeah, oh yeah, what an innovator. I just
was at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and

(25:44):
I saw some It was like a cylinder brick with
like a broom handle and some jerry rigged microphone that
went into you know, it was early double tracking machines.
It was insane. He told me the story himself, and
he stole a railroad track, which double from a railroad track.
That's where he got the wood, right. He stuck it

(26:04):
in the back of his pickup and he took it
home and he carved it out and he put the
strings on it, and then he was trying to think
in his mind, how am I going to make this guitar?
Electric and the only thing that his imagination he came
up with was taking you know, off an old phonograph
before there was actually speakers in it. It was like

(26:25):
the little needle that you dropped and has a built
in speaker, a sound hole on the actual needle, like
patrol in the wood. Oh my god, so would resonate,
you know, And then you know they kind of came
up with the dough Bros And everything after that up
are resonating top of the guitar. But yeah, that's where

(26:47):
it all came from. What an incredible genius. I mean,
you know, we wouldn't have all these Beatles records, nothing
without him coming up with all these you know, insane,
I mean, total madness. How he even came up with it.
I mean, just a total genius. Oh yeah, those records especially,

(27:08):
I always love the ones you did with Mary Ford
back in the late forties early fifties. Oh my god. Yeah.
I mean, for anyone listening to hasn't uh explored those yet,
I envy you because they will blow your mind. There's
so so fresh, so intricate, there's so cool. I think
he's the greatest. Uh definitely. Last time we spoke, actually

(27:29):
we were talking about you were, um, you were letting
go of some guitars, some incredible guitars. UH broadcaster A
no castor uh A fifty nine gold top less Paul,
if I recall, I I just I love the mythology
around guitars. I love guitars that have back stories that
have been passed from player to player. Maybe it's my

(27:51):
King Arthur ex caliber fantasies in there. I just love
that that these guitars take on a life of their own.
You've got the stories of Jeff Beck giving Jimmy Page
his Stairway to Heaven telecast, or or um clapped in
or clapped in giving the lucy les Paul to uh
George Harrison. I was just wondering, do you have any
guitars that kind of come from a long historical lineage.

(28:14):
You know, I've got I've got a few vantage guitars.
You know, I don't have a lot anymore, man, because
they were not my go to guitars. To tell you
the truth, I collected uh during the pandemic, you know,
because I've never done it before. Joe Bonamassa was given
me a lot of help, you know, because he was

(28:35):
a pro added obviously, and I didn't really know what
I was doing. And I was like, hey, what do
you think it is? Is this? You know, they ask
him too much for what? What do you think I
should offer for it? And I collected, you know, well
over I don't know about a hundred fifty guitars and
they were all vantage they were stacked up in our house,

(28:56):
you know, crawling over guitars to get through with anywhere.
And I just kind of take it on. I took
it on as a hobby and learned how to work
on them. And you know, I never had owned them,
and so I wanted to own them, and I wanted
to work and find out if I really loved them not.

(29:19):
And so the telecasters and a broadcast that you were
talking about, the black parts were completely insanely meant mint condition,
like brand new, you know, uh. And I paid a
small fortune for him, really um. But the problem with
them was that they were only worth that much money

(29:42):
if you don't mess with him. And I wanted to
mess with him. All my stuff did I play. I
messed with you know. I I switched pick ups at,
I switched pots out, I put different frets, I you know,
I make it comfortable for myself. And the frets that
the guitars had come with were so tiny I couldn't

(30:05):
get you know, I just couldn't get under them, you know. Uh.
And then I could never set them up to feel comfortable.
And then the screws in the back by the bridge
were sticking out and they were very uncomfortable, and I
wanted to put smaller ones, but then I go, if
I change it, it's gonna take the value away from
the guitar. So I had, you know, so many great

(30:27):
uh relic tellys and strats that I got from Fender,
and they're just like off the hook right now with
the product that they make, uh, you know, relicting old
guitars and not only the lookal but they sound old
and they play old, but with a new modern edge
to it. You know, they'll have a little bit bigger frets,

(30:49):
a little more comfortable. The neck is actually worn up
on the older Telly's. I'm talking about the black guards.
I mean, all the lacquer was still on and I
don't really like the lacquer, and I wanted to stand
it down, and I was like, no, I can't do that.
And so, you know, it was a classic case of
after having them and working on him and finding if

(31:11):
I really was attached to him, that I wasn't attached
to him, you know, unless I just wanted to have
a museum someday. And then I went, I don't see
that happening, because it's kind of a look at it,
kind of like it would be like a restaurant, you know,
something you have to run yourself all the time, and
you can't really, you know, trust any one person to

(31:32):
do it beside yourself, and so I just I'm never
gonna have the time to do that. So I just
thought I'll put it in the hands of somebody that
can really appreciate it. And I got rid of a
lot of stuff that I still have, like about you know,
seven seventy seven fifties something like that. Guitars. What's your
go to? Now? What did you play? What was your

(31:52):
rig for? For freedom? Uh? You know what? On freedom?
I I brought had I brought about thirty five guitars
into the studio. You know, I'd bring like about two
a day for you know months. They pile up. He's
in it were piled up, you know. Nardi was like, dude,
I think you need to like make a little room here.

(32:15):
But you know, I had a little bit of everything.
You know. I had um a gold top of one
of my last calls, and then s model that they
only made, you know for a year, and he made
two hundred of them, and uh, I used that on
some tracks they wanted a little bit thicker sound. Um.

(32:37):
Then I had a relic offender black Telly sixty three
telly that I played a lot. And people don't affiliate
me with a Telly because they never seen me, but
they tell you, but that was, uh, you got the
best of me. That is my telly. You know, that's
a telly. It's a thick sound, he telly, but it's

(32:59):
got attitude. You know. Telecasters just have that gnarly thing
that they do. And you know, if you play him
through a fuzz face or something like that, like you know,
I found out that even purple haze that Andricks did
was on a telly and it wasn't a strap and

(33:19):
so that's what Telly sounds like through a fuzz phase,
you know. And uh got a big, thick sound. And
what's cool about him is you you you wind the
volume back and it gets brighter and more staccato in
your face, so when you're playing solos, when I really
wanted the notes to stick out and be more staccato,
I just rolled the vying back and what I wanted

(33:40):
it to get thick because some of the more singing
notes you pull the volume Up's kind of like what
Jimmy Page said on the first Led Zeppelin album. You know,
big thick Telly sounds on that album all throughout the album,
and it's through, you know, over dry pedals. I don't
know if you use a fuzz face or UH tone
bender or whatever he used by uh that that those

(34:02):
guitars as something else, And so I used a sixty
three I had. UH. I used a Relic sixty three
strat from Fender UH with some bigger friends on it
that has some you know, custom pickups in it. There
were no hume. They weren't like the new no homes
that they they're putting in and I don't even know

(34:23):
what they are. They could be the Marzos, whatever the
pickups are. The guitar sounded great, though, so I just
used it. UM. I used a tailor or acoustic guitar,
a little bit acoustic that I did play on the record.
And you know pretty much I that was it, you know,

(34:44):
I didn't. I ended up honing into those about those
three guitars, you know, throughout the whole record, and I
don't recall you using much more than that. Speaking of Hendricks,
I loved your performance at the NBA Final. So I'm
a Boston boy myself, so we might have some some
differences there, but that was incredible performance. You know, I

(35:06):
was obviously I was at the first game. That was
an honor for me. You know. It's, uh, it's so
great that you know, now that I've been managing myself,
you know, I don't have anybody diverting the calls, is
what I found. Like, you know, when I first played,
when I got asked by the Raiders to do it

(35:27):
in Vegas, you know, uh, they called me and it
finally got a hold of me and I said, dude,
you are like the hardest guy to get ahold of.
And I said, what are you talking about? And I said,
we've been trying to get a hold of you for
like twenty years. And I said who are you talking to?
And they said management And I said, one day tell
you and they said, I said, you weren't interested and
I was like nice. And so now you know, people

(35:53):
are calling me directly and I'm getting asked to do
it all the time, and um, it said quite was
quite an honor. Uh, it was a little freak key
for me. You know. It wasn't like being on a
big giant football field, you know, in the stadium in Vegas.
That was really comfortable. The first time I've been in
you know, we played it Chase Center in San Francisco

(36:16):
on his last tour, but I was on the stage,
you know. This time, I'm down in the middle of
the court and while I'm getting ready to do it,
I'm barely hearing the announcer because the sound system they have,
the p A address system, whatever they have in there
is not like what they have in Vegas, you know.

(36:38):
And so and and I got all players from both
teams right on each side of me, and they're all
falling down in front of me. The balls are flying
by it. I'm like, I'm gonna get taken out of here.
In the second man, it was interesting these guys Luke
nine ft tall. When you're standing down there with him,

(36:59):
then for a real I was just like, wow, this
is insane, and so um, I wasn't quite hearing enough
of myself in the house. I think they were a
little gunshot, you know, with with the the guitar in
the mix, because I believe it's the first time they've
ever allowed, you know, a guitar player to do that.

(37:19):
UM on the first playoff on you know, televised across
the world, and so UM, I was mostly hearing myself
on the ground with the two martial cabinets I had,
and it's a wooden floor. Everything was bouncing around, and so,
you know, I do I think I could have done better. Yeah,

(37:41):
but you know, there's gonna be another time, you know.
And uh, it was a great experience. I'm just you know,
thrill that they they even asked me, you're going back

(38:05):
out on the road. You're playing some dates in Vegas
with an orchestra. I mean, that's gotta be That's I
cannot wait to hear clips from that. That seems amazing.
That's gonna be such a great way to to augment
these songs. It seemed really as you mentioned earlier, I mean,
with your solo for Don't Stop Believing. I can totally
hear how the orchestra could fit into a lot of
these tracks. You know, we've done it a couple of

(38:26):
times now. Um. We did it at the Hollywood Bowl
years ago. We did it with a full like one
over one hundred piece orchestra, and we did a long show,
close to three hours, and uh, we rearranged all the
songs to accommodate orchestra and to make it a bit
different than a record, and we did, like you know,

(38:48):
it was interesting is the hits that you wouldn't naturally
hear an orchestra, and whether it's you know, like the
ballot is like faithfully or or open arms, so whatever
sounded you know, more like not that different from what
we did live. But the rock songs that we did
took on a whole different feeling, you know, um, like City,

(39:14):
I hope we did. We're gonna be playing that off.
The first album we did with our now right uh
for on it was the second album. I can't remember,
um whether it was Eclipse or right. Um, the first
album with him Revelation, Um, and you know there was
French horns. It was all this stuff going on that

(39:36):
really you know, embellished the tunes and so it's gonna
be interesting to play all that stuff again, uh, and
the arrangements they're gonna have to learn in my care
Remember where we did it was such a long time ago,
but we'll pick it up past. Oh man, I know
you've got another big milestone on the horizon. I hope
you don't mind me mentioning it, uh fifty years with
journey coming up. I understand you've got some some big

(39:59):
plan possibly in the works. I was wonder if there's
uh anything you can share about that. Um, there's some
I'm not supposed to talk about. Have already been like
they smacked my hands, like to talk about that, and
I'm like, I'm but no, there are big plans and
uh the immediate plans just for the fans out there

(40:20):
that you know, I feel really bad about. You know,
the last four gigs that we had we had to postpone,
uh due to COVID and one of us getting sick.
And it wasn't me, but I'm not gonna say anything
more than that. But um, everybody assumed it was me
because Classic Rock, you know, the mag they came out

(40:41):
with a little blurp about it and they used a
picture of me, so it must have a kneel And
right now it wasn't me, but um, we're gonna make
up those dates. What the talk is right now, those
will be the first dates that we play of the
new year, Gonna go out early again, like we did

(41:02):
you know this this year, and we're doing the first
forty shows at plus the makeups with Toto again, which
you know was a call of mine. I you know,
I've known Luke at there Steve Lucat there forever and
you know, amazing guitar player, amazing friend of mine. Uh,
We've known each other and respected each other for years,
and I just thought, you know, I saw a poster

(41:25):
years ago from a Day on the Green and it
was Bill Graham's Dana Green and it was Journeys Santana
and Tote, and I went, what a great Bill that that?
You know, I see that happening, and possibly, you know,
we're gonna do these forty days with Toto. And the

(41:45):
deal I made with Luke at their managing was like
I said, look, we're we could probably sell out these
places by ourself, and A E. G. Didn't know at
the time because we hadn't worked with them yet, but
I had a good clue that you know, while we
were being stuck in sheds for the last two decades,
and you know, only accountable for five thousand seeds because

(42:07):
there's only five thousand seats. I used to pay guys
in the parking lot, you know that we're brothers of mine,
and and I say how many cars were here tonight?
And I say like two thousand, you know, And I said,
oh really, And then I go to work on how
many do we have here tonight? And you go, oh, well,
you didn't do it as good as you did last year.

(42:28):
You're probably about eighteen thousand and so when you're on
stage and you're playing in sheds, you can't tell how
many people are there. You have to go and pay
the guys somebody in the parking lot and ask them
just a little clue for other bands. So I had
a good clue of how strong we were, you know,
really being told one thing to keep you kind of

(42:50):
down here, you know, and don't get let them get
outside the box, you know. But you know, I had
managed to do a few gigs. One was in Indianapolis
five hundreds anniversary. Actually my wife and I put together
with friends of ours that that run not and at
the time our management wasn't going to allow us to play.

(43:12):
They didn't want us to play. We went, uh, just
to witness it, and you know, before we played another
time and hung out and they were like, how come
you don't want to play? And I'm like, what are
you talking about? I don't know anything about it. I said,
I'd love to play. Well, I said, so let me
call somebody and and put him on the phone while
I was sitting there with the main guys. And so

(43:35):
this is all why you know I'm doing it myself now,
you know, is that because I want to hear what's
really going on from the get go, before it goes
from this person and that person, this person in person
and then you hear whatever you here in the end,
which is total bullshit. It's a game of telephone. Yeah,
you know, so I just you know, um, I'm I'm

(43:58):
enjoying knowing what's really going on. But we're gonna go.
I told Luca thro I said, look, and we did
sell out. We started selling out immediately, and you know,
as when we got past I think the first week
it was totally sold out the whole tour, and so
it'll happen again. It's a great package. Our fans love

(44:20):
the package were total and you know, I go by
every night. You know, I'd hire like um uh three
pro photographers to come with us, you know, which I
thought was really important the beginning of our tour with
a G to show the strength of the band. And
one of the guys in particular, Iron Mike. You know,

(44:43):
he's well known in the rock industry, and he he's
known for he's like, you know, the goat man. He
goes way up in the coliseum or wherever you are,
because see these long shots of the audience. That just
shows a packed audience, you know, and shows the magnet
in the size of our crowd, you know. And so

(45:04):
I started posting this every night with pictures of the band,
thanking everybody from the city. It was like doing this
by myself, you know, and taking it upon myself. It's
like my responsibility as a manager to do this for
the band, to elevate us. And sure enough it just
started snowballing, snowballing. So now a G. I obviously loved

(45:26):
how well it did, as well as C A. A.
And our agent there, Jeff Frasto, And so now we're
gonna we're gonna continue. I said, let's just continue, you know,
there's no reason not to. So we're gonna play the
secondary markets in the first forty shows, makeup to dates
that we had to cancel, uh they We're gonna play
some of the main markets that we did miss this

(45:48):
year next year in the first forty dates. Then we're
planning on going overseas with TODE, which is was the
deal I made with Lucather because they have a big
following over there and believe we do too, but we
just don't know it yet because nobody wanted us to
be big over there because there's different guys that that

(46:10):
you know, do the shows, you know, and they're independent promoters,
and so we weren't allowed to do that twenty years ago,
and so now we are. But you know, Lucather got
back and I said, that's the deal. I said, you know, well,
we'll take you guys on this and it will elevate you,
and then we'll go with you and it will elevate
us as well in Europe and in South America, and

(46:32):
so we're gonna go explore all those territories with them.
And he's already gotten back to me and said, hey,
and some of my promoters and he manages Toto too,
and he says, some of my promoters so many we
can go onto stadiums, which is the two of us,
and so I said, I thought, so, so we're heading there.
I think it's gonna be really really interested in my
I'm so excited, uh to get back and play outside

(46:56):
of the US as well, because I know we have
so many like billions of fans basically not millions, billions,
you know, all over the world. And um, and then
I'm talking to Carlos Antiana, you know, him and I
are like really you know, as tight as ever. We're

(47:16):
talking about working together again, and so you know, I'm
warming them up to the idea of if we, uh,
if I start out with Toto and we play the Marcus,
that they're strong. And I know how strong Santana is
across the world because I played in the band when
I was just a kid. And it remains like that
for him. You know, God bless him, you know, God

(47:38):
bless them fans. I mean, it's so awesome. I dad
experience for me was just like nothing ever born. I
will never forget that, you know. Um. But as there's
no reason not to do it at this time because
it is my fiftieth anniversary, and really that's where Journey
came from, you know. Uh, and so have that story

(48:01):
with us, you know, and playing with Carlos and some
of these dates, and I see us playing some stadiums,
coming back to the US and playing some stadiums with
Antana as well, and possibly Toto, you know. Carlos likes
Earth to win and fire though two and they're awesome.

(48:22):
So we'll see what happens, maybe all four of us
or or three of us, and then there's plans for too.
But that's when I've been smacked down about. They don't
want me talking about it, but it is four. So
we're like going like this, you know, at this point
here is my career. To watch it escalate to even

(48:45):
a higher level than it's ever been. It's just it's
very gratifying to me. Is the word is gratitude, you know.
And and um, you know, I love the fans so much.
They're like so supportive. I always knew they were there
for us much more than it appeared, though, you know,
And now I'm seeing for real, um, what is all about?

(49:08):
And so it's it's, um, you know, we're we're moving
up really really quick. And the other thing that I
cleaned up that my wife and actually and I cleaned up,
that we investigated for about six years is our merchandise.
You know, we have been lied to for many many
years that you know, our merchandise was trademark, and we

(49:32):
found out it was never trademard. And so our merchandise
is massive across the world, and we're like receiving chump change,
you know, but people are making billions billion dollars. I mean,
people do not realize in bands how big merch is
because most management they don't want them to know how

(49:55):
big it is. That's way bigger than playing, you know,
if you haven't put together right. So out we got
all that put together. I've been doing clean up for
the last two years. Took everything off the shelves. The
only thing that's left out there and retail is all
bootlegs up uh and they're all phony deals that that
it was under and it was saying they were licensed deels.

(50:17):
And you know, I was basically on the phone with
and on zoom with with CEOs of these bigger stores saying,
you know what, man, you have a real problem here. Um,
well we had, they said, we had contracts and I go,
not real ones, No, no real contracts here, And I said,
and people basically that you had contracts with are fired now.

(50:40):
And so you've been selling our stuff really illegally for
two years. And so you know, we're gonna have to
settle up here and move on, and you know, and
so that's what's happening right now, and taking on a
lot of stuff. Man, steering the bowl in the right areas.
But man, you know, at this point, I'm just not

(51:03):
effing around anymore. You know, It's like, why, why, if
if it's really doing that well, why should we not
be the ones that that are, you know, receiving the
benefits of it, you know, not everybody else that's ripping
you off. So that's where it's. That's where I'm at.
I'm in the cleaning the whole thing up, but not

(51:24):
losing music. The music is the main thing, you know.
But the rest of it is not that hard, man, honestly,
you know it now that everything is removed, it takes
a lot of effort to stay on top of it.
You know, I could use a day to day guy
to come in and do a list of stuff for

(51:45):
me that I don't really feel like doing now that
I've done it, as long as I can find somebody
that can follow the list and do what I ask.
And that's another chore in itself, finding the right person,
you know, finding the right person that has a niche
of what you're talking about, that gets it immediately, so
they're almost reading your mind and you don't have to

(52:05):
take them. You don't put the training wheels on for
six months or two years and they still don't get it. No,
you need to find the right person. And so until
until I do, I'm just gonna keep on doing what
I'm doing. You know, I saw on your Instagram. I
think it was in Texas a view from the stage.
Must have been during lights, because I feel like they're

(52:26):
everybody had the lights up in the air. I mean,
just more scenes like that, more scenes like that. That's
what we're That's what I hope to see more for
you in the next couple of years. Good lord, you
know what you're going to see that. I think all
day long in every city that was that was like
one of the best shows that we had definitely done

(52:49):
in many, many years. Um And I didn't know what
to expect going in because I knew nothing about the event.
You know, all I knew is is that it was
it was. It was not an a e G. Event.
It was like a private promoter and it was a rodeo.
And I'm thinking to myself, we're playing a rodeo, And

(53:10):
I said, well, who else played these rodeos? And they go, well,
Beyonce has done at jay Z. They've done it, like
you know, multiple times, and Santana's done it, and everybody's
done it. Go what, it must be a cool experience then,
you know. But I had no clue going in like
how big it was and this audience, I mean all
seventy two thousand, it was sold out, and they were

(53:33):
die hard Journey fans. Okay, they weren't there. You know,
they buy tickets for like the whole rodeo and they
have lots of different artists, but this particular night sold
like really quick. I talked to the promoter and they
were just in from second one and I started up
with star spangled banner, and I'll tell you what, that

(53:54):
place came on freaking glue like I've never heard before.
And they stay that way through our whole show. And
then you know, we had like a new merch company
future shows that we're working with. They didn't know what
to expect. They ran out of merch, you know, And
I'm like, how can you run out of merch? You know?

(54:15):
Never again? No, it's never happened again now, you know.
Honest to God. Since I clean up the merch, we're
like doing like numbers like nobody we never did in
the eighties. Uh, in our height. We're like, we're like
doing numbers like merch numbers. And lets me know that
I'm on the right bound and you know, the man upstairs,

(54:38):
he's on my side. He's leading me the right way.
Well you got the music man? Oh good lord. I
I could talk to you all day. I don't want
to take up too much more of your time, but
I just I am such a huge fan. I just
want to thank you U for your time today, but
most importantly, thank you for your music. It has meant
the world to me and my loved ones over the years.

(54:58):
Thank you so much. It's been such an honor to
speak to you. It's great to talk to again and
come down to the gig in Vegas. We hope you
enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production of
I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the Studio
or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart Radio app,

(55:20):
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.