Black Card Declined (with Zainab Johnson)

Can you truly lose your Black card? Langston and his guest Zainab Johnson (Amazon's Uploaded) swipe through this challenging conspiracy theory and it's origins.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Yeah, but just like just like I seen coming to
America or whatever, I never saw et do you get
what I'm saying? And I feel like if I mean,
sometimes sometimes I say stuff just to you know, just
to make white people feels, you know, like I love
saying who when they'd be like, you know, merrily streak.
I'm like, who never heard of racist stuff? I can't

(00:47):
tell me. Yep, yep, yep, there it is. There it is.
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another phenomenal episode of My
Mama Told Me, a podcast where we died deep, deep
into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we finally
work to prove that Miss Cita from Ceda's World can

(01:09):
still get it. It don't matter that that booty is
in sixteen bit, it's still a booty worth celebrating Square
Mario Kart. Booties need love too, and I'm just the
man to give it to them. That is something that
I believe, ladies and gentlemen at home, and it's a
it's a fact that I'm spreading out in the world.
I'm your host, Legs than Kerman as always, What a

(01:30):
pleasure to be back with you. We've taken quite a
fucking hiatus. You know, I don't usually leave y'all for
very long, but I left you, and I apologize. But
I'm back, baby, and I'm I'm as fucked up as ever.
I'm as sick and twisted as you. You remember and
listen my guest today, she is not fucked up. She
she is I'd say she's a good person and and

(01:52):
more importantly, a very funny person, an exceptionally funny individual,
so so talented that you know hers from from a
amazing ship. She's been on all death comedy. She's she's hilarious.
She oh oh, she has a show. It's in its
second season on Amazon. It's called up Low. Y'all need
to be watching that ship. Please give it up. From

(02:13):
my guests, miss snap Sho, I'm saying, hey, was I
supposed to wait? I don't know what you know. They're
not real people. I'm just pressing up button. But you
know how some people are so like O C D.
It's like, let's run that back, let me let me

(02:35):
do that again. Oh No, I don't give a ship.
I I just fumble fumble through this every time we
do it. So you know, I'm happy. I'm just happy.
You're here. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah,
you came with a conspiracy theory that I'll be honest,
it's it's a challenging one. I'd say. It's it's one

(02:56):
that that will challenge all of us, both both listeners
and podcasters alike. We're we are all going to be
challenged by your conspiracy theory. And I won't waste any
more time. You said, my mama told me be careful,
you can lose your black car. Tell me more since

(03:19):
the dawn of time, I mean, yeah, we've all heard it.
We've all made that classic mistake where you didn't say
something right. You aren't familiar with whatever is in black culture,
something that is cemented, something that they feel like black

(03:39):
people feel like whoever the black people you know how
we say like black Twitter. It's like, I don't know
who specifically black Twitter is. But when they decide something,
it has been decided. And if you and if for
some reason you dropped the ball, you lose your black heart,
which essentially means you lose credit. It no longer are

(04:03):
credited with being a black person, which is crazy, but
it happens, and we care about it. Well, that's what
I was gonna ask you, and you're already diving in.
And I love this. Your your energy, I feel fucking
you're your your intensity is it's it's emanating through the screen.
But you said that it's it's crazy, and I'm curious

(04:26):
to know more. Do you, in fact think it's like
crazy in a wrong way or just crazy and are like, WHOA,
that's wild kind of way. I think it depends on
the day, because I've been on both sides. I've I've
lost the black card a few times. I imagine there
may come a time in this episode where you decide

(04:47):
to revoke it for your listeners, I'm sure, But I've
also been on the other side where I'm like, you
really don't no, no, no, no, rum me that rum
me that you know, run me that black card. Very
rarely though, I'm never on this because because I'm so
often on the side that loses it. But I think

(05:09):
that it's wild because where did it come from? You know?
And this I think like in black culture, there's always
been this thing about like you ain't black enough, or
you ain't being black, or you ain't being the right
type of black. You know, It's like there's there's always

(05:30):
been that thing, and I wonder, like did we do
that to ourselves? And the black card is just like
one part of that? Sure? You know, Well, let me
address a few things. First of all, you you should
in no way fear the possibility that you will lose
your black card because of me. Who am I as
as light as I am to be taking the black

(05:51):
card away from a lady named zay Nab Johnson. You
know what I mean, Like, I ain't got no business
doing nothing, but you know what, the black card ain't
even got the with what you look like or what's
your name? You know, they might take a black card
away from you. Book, I've lost a black card because
my name is Zane after so soundingly like sounding so
ethnic for me to not that's all the more right

(06:15):
that like, and that's what makes it so complicated, right,
is that it does become if if I can, I
hate even making this like a more like intellectual conversation,
but it it is sort of like we standardize these
small pockets of community and we say this is a
representation of all blackness, right, but then that community is

(06:37):
not community communicating with another black community that set itself
up and so those black communities start to jet against
each other where it's like, nah, the black people of
this section of the country don't believe this is what
black people do. And then you move to Ohio or
New York or whatever the funk it is, and suddenly

(06:58):
they're like, yeah, we do that. In They're like, nigga,
you ain't real, you ain't black. You I'm taking your
black car. And it often is with things that really
don't matter, like I'll reveal to something that in the
past couple of years oufter, you know, like my black boyfriend,
like I think he reevaluated the relationship with me when

(07:18):
it was revealed. I can't tell I can't tell you.
In Anita Baker song, oh Man, all right, I wouldn't
know it was Anita Baker standing next to me and
Trader Joe's I wouldn't even know if people was like,
you know, that's if she came up to me it

(07:38):
was like, hey, I'm Anita. I would not be like,
oh Baker, no lovely, and I wouldn't be like, I
met this lovely woman named Anita who told me, who
told me She's doing a show tonight some sort of
lounge singer but yeah, I mean I would be like,
maybe she saw my comedy. I met this lady named Anita.

(08:03):
She's a big fan of man. But that's to your point.
That is a crazy thing, right that, Like you have
spent your entire life as a black woman, living around
black people, experiencing black things, and then suddenly you expressed
to a person who you are intimate with, who you

(08:23):
you share everything with, this vulnerability in some sense, and
then they go everything you've stood for up to this
point has lost a level of value. That's crazy. Wait, wait,
see lengthening. Even if you see how five minutes ago
you was like, there's no way I could. Yeah, but
then your reaction, the way it's like you had. Your

(08:45):
reaction wasn't listen. I again, I'm not taking it away,
but I did WinCE. There was a There was just
like a slight twin you know what I mean, just
a little tink at the sound of not knowing any
Anita Baker. I can't tell you one apologize, that's come on,

(09:07):
don't if you sing it, maybe I like, but you're
saying that I have like you like it, Like you
know if you said to me right now. Beyonce single ladies.
I would be able to say, oh, my single ladies, right,
or if you said, I don't know, Michael Jackson, remember
the time, I would be able to be like you,
what was the title you? I can't even remember the title.
You just said it and listen. I'm not gonna force

(09:29):
it down your throat. I understand. I am saying, maybe
you know when you get on you cause right just
that I apologize. It's a great song by Anita Baker,
and she likes us streaming her music. Now again she
was That's what I was gonna say. I'm gonna say,
but I know at one point she didn't want a
body stream of music. But that's because I listened to
the news and I listened to like things that I

(09:50):
want to know, like I listened to like lawyers a lot,
and sometimes you know, you know, like oh here if
this Anita woman again, I will say, if you're aware
of the fact that you're not supposed to be streaming
Anita Baker's music, or you weren't supposed to be, then
you're still supporting black women and that's nice. You're still

(10:10):
doing the right business, even if your boyfriend is taking
the card away for ex boyfriend. All right, well does
here at the podcast? Okay, so you you do see
a level of craziness in the way that we sort
of like handle these things. Let me ask this, Have

(10:32):
you ever been on the side of taking or at
least uh wanting to take someone's black card away from them,
or or or demanding that someone should lose their back
black card because of their behavior. Yes, but only in jest.
I think that it's actually crazy, like in the ludicrous way,
like what's happening when someone is really adamant, like when

(10:55):
they're really sire, you know, like when it almost when
it almost becomes like bullying up, you know, when it's
like that, then I'm like, well, why don't you do
like like the reaction you had to me about Anita Baker.
If if anybody was born in like the mid to
late eight the eighties, nineties, it's like it maybe like
early two thousands, if you have before the new Coming

(11:17):
to America came out, if you hadn't seen coming to America,
because that is such a staple in my my upbringing,
I might be like, you ain't seen coming to America.
Five heart beats. But you know, like all of these
things that were like, this is the reason why we
went to the movies when I was younger. You know,
if you haven't experienced that, then I'm gonna be like,

(11:39):
oh girl, we might need to take your black card. Right.
I was like this five art Beats, I'll be vulnerable
with you never seen it, never even never went that
down that train. So here, So now here's another level
of a black card. Right. They might not take that.
They might not take your black card. But then here

(12:00):
is to follow up question, do you have any desire
to see it? I'll say this, I have always had
a desire to see it, but I've also always felt
a weird then diagram existed between what I knew of
it and the Temptations movie, just with having Leon and
but you know what I mean, like it, it had

(12:20):
enough of a vent diagram where it's like, now I
get it, I know what the funk this is, and
I never ventured beyond that instinct. Yeah, yeah, Well you
know why they made the Temptations movie, I don't tell me.
Because Five Heartbeats was so good. Everybody thought Five Heartbeats
was a real group. Five five heart Beats was based

(12:40):
on not one specific specific group, but an amalgamation of
those types of groups, and Robert Townsend felt like nobody's
telling the stories of the of these you know, soul
R and B soul groups, and so he told a
fictionalized version of of a collection of them and got
this one group to do like vocals and everything, and

(13:01):
it became such a hit after the box. So it's
like a black culture classic. Right, Look how you're doing. Well,
I'm behavior. I had none of that. You got all
closer to the microphone black culture classical. Come on, Relax, Relax?

(13:27):
Is somebody cue? But it was so popular they was
like v H one was like, well, we should probably
make a Temptations And I do think you're absolutely right
with the vin diagram. I do think that there is
something weird, like if you are a huge fan of
the of the Five parties, you watch the Temptation movie

(13:49):
and you and you enjoy it, but you don't love
it the way you you don't love it, you know what.
I'll say that in my ignorance, I always presumed that
the Tempting Asians movie came first, and so for me
it just looked like Robert town was in like did
his own Temptations movie and I'm good, like, I'll see

(14:09):
it if I see it, but I'm never gonna like
hunt this down. But now that I know, I'm gonna
put a little more effort into it, you should go
see if this is not a podcast about me telling
you what to see, but because even the making, even
the making of it, but see this is this. You
see this intensity that I have, I'm I'm gonna follow
it up with like, so now you don't have a

(14:30):
black car, but that's what dropped. That's the passion behind
why black Why a black person would revoke someone else's
black car. But it's a genuine passion. It just gets
a little bit crazy. I agree. I think it's And
you made a point as you were sort of going
through a lot of this about the generational quality that

(14:54):
exists in this right that like coming to America, for example,
is such a staple in in my black life, your
black life, a lot of black lives. But if I
talk to somebody that's younger than us, that that sort
of is worn in the ax and like very much
a person of like this new generation, they might not

(15:15):
value coming to America in the same way. And so
for us to then go you ain't black, I think
creates like a weird sort of like you know, bumping
bumping against each other, because like, how the funk would
they know? They ain't. They weren't around for Eddie Murphy
when he was really Eddie Murphy. They got Eddie Murphy
when he was putting on like Reykae hats and playing

(15:36):
guitar m m. And they may have seen coming to
America too, that might be their first introduction to it.
And you know, I'm gonna I worked with Amazon at
this point, so I'm going to you know, but you know,
it's it's it ain't what you want to start win. No. Hey, hey,

(15:57):
we're all out here doing our best. But but it ain't.
It ain't the original. And I think yes, but there's
also like there's this other side of being a black identity, right,
that is so serious, right, that thing where there's so
much um is ms attached to being black, and there's

(16:21):
so much trauma attached to black identity in the appearance
of blackness, right, And so to then disqualify somebody who
may be dealing with the real ramifications of being a
black person in America but also in this world dealing

(16:42):
with that to then say well, you don't speak a
certain way or you don't have you haven't had the
same experiences of me. You're not tapped into the culture
in the same way that I am. And so therefore, no,
you're not black. That's a really toxic conversation. Yeah, and
I do think that is where are some of this
sort of like gets into a very sticky trap, right,

(17:05):
is is you are isolating people from a community that
they very much identify with, largely in that they cannot
unidentify with it, right, Like you can't stop being black
in America. Even the most like the people who we
labeled the coneyest combs, you know what I mean, like
are still in some ways like they're black. They have

(17:28):
to be there. It is inescapable for them. And so
to then be like, yo, you can't kick it with us,
like they don't stop existing, They're they're just now feeling
isolated and also you know, dealing with whatever, like you said,
the ramifications of of trauma and the white man's trickery
on on the other side of it. Yeah. Yeah, let

(17:50):
me ask you this last question before before we go
to break, because I'm enjoying where this side of the
train is going. Do you feel like then there are
people who I guess would celebrate the idea of the
black card being revoked. Like if you look at a
Candice Owens, for example, like is she is she cheering

(18:12):
at the idea of her her you know, black card
being taken away from her losing her black herd is
a Terry Crews pumping his arms and being like, fun, yeah,
take it away. I don't need that ship or is
this Is it more complicated than that? I think it's
definitely more complicated, more nuanced than that. I think that
you would find somebody like Terry Crews maybe saying something
like that in jest. I think that a Candice Owens

(18:35):
doesn't have the humor capacity to you know, like we'd
be like I don't need you know, like, thank god,
you guys took my black That's that was the last
thing I was holding onto you, you know, thank you
for you know. But I do think that there are
people that exists that are black that might take on

(18:56):
the pride of not being identified as black. And this
is not this is not so much a visual thing,
but it's a behavioral thing, you know, in a social
status thing. But they wouldn't do it in front of
other black people. Oh you know, that's like something that

(19:16):
you say, are you watching bel Air? Am I personally? Yeah?
You cann't pressure on me. You represent Amazon, I represent Pico. Yeah.
I love Bell my favorite show. Can't get enough of it.
M m mmmm give me that, Will Smith boy, Well,
since you know you you know that scene, that scene

(19:37):
that you know, oh so well, you know I know it,
But go ahead and describe it anyway for our listeners.
Not the character Carlton, that the new vision of Carlton.
He's in the locker room with his prep school buddies,
and if they're all white guys and they're singing a
rap song and the white guy you're saying like and

(19:57):
word and word and word and word, you know, and
that type of I could see that sort of character
feeling like in that space, it's okay because nobody knows,
but the moment Wills character is now in a space.
Now there's conflict because there's a witness to this. There's

(20:20):
somebody else that's opposing that. Do you get what I'm saying.
I think it's it's interesting because you're suggesting that there
is so much of our black identity is related around
community that like, without the community, what is blackness? Right,
it is something that we can easily, theoretically at least

(20:41):
abandon were it not for a bunch of white people
being you know, ridiculous, violent and angry towards us. But like,
we could abandoned the blackness if it weren't for the
fact that other black people are nearby, and then we
gotta be like, Ship, I gotta be I gotta be
black all the time and with with this other person.
And so it becomes a bit of a catch twenty

(21:02):
two in a way, right, because it's like that is
both beautiful because then that's how we connect to each other,
that's how we relate, that's how we identify. But then
it also seems hindering where it's like, oh funk, I
gotta I gotta perform as a community member at all
as all times, at all times instead of as a
singular person. M h oh, Ship, this is heavy before break.

(21:27):
You know, we trying to go to break on some
last lines and Ship and you're like, no, I'm about
to hit you with some wisdom, motherfucker. Well here here's
a joke I was trying to tell you know what
They're trying to get Ellen up out of here, right,
And I'm like, no, I was. I was like that
Ellen can't leave before I dance on her show, right,
And I'm like and I'm like, but but I've been practicing.
I've been practicing my Ellen dance because I gotta dance

(21:50):
well enough so black people know that I can dance,
but not too good where they like, look at her
doing too much for the white but for the white lady.
I'm saying, yeah, I feel like that was even deeper.
But I made you laugh. You go to commercial, No,
I'll decide when we go to commercial, I'll dare you.

(22:11):
But I will say that's that's a good fucking point,
because there is. It's a sticky situation because you go
out there and you do too many moves that look
like you're rehearsing, Like look at this naked tap dance
for the White Devil, and it's like, no, you gotta
just stay in your pocket, you know what I mean.
But all right, well, we're gonna get you on Ellen
with this episode. In fact, we're gonna take a break.

(22:33):
We'll be back with More's they napped Johnson and More.
My mama told me and we are you have your passport?
Did you get your shocks? Girl? Would you like to

(22:55):
come back with Rob to a brandit com? Yeah, we're
back here more. My mama told me, I heard Kelly
and so long, and I like to throw him in
every once in a while and see what it does
for I heard our Kelly is And what's crazy is

(23:18):
I'm like, oh, I noticed, Oh but I ain't supposed right. Also,
it's literally the most predatory thing he's ever done, at
least in a public space, of begging a bunch of
foreign women to come back and get their get their
shots first, obviously, and then come back to America to
be his captive. And this was during he was already

(23:40):
he was like on probation. My man did not give up.
I don't on bail, he would say. He was like,
I don't, Yeah, I gotta, I'm gonna do me. He's like, no,
I can still get a captive you this, this can
still work. Let me let me dig into this research
with you, because I I like I said, because the
black card itself is more of a euphemism than it

(24:01):
is a real thing. There is no actual black hearted obviously,
is a topic that lives more in theory than hard facts,
but there is. It got me sort of thinking about
like the idea of revoking a black card, right, And
I found the Chicago Tribune article that explored this author's
complicated relationship with their black card, or at least with

(24:23):
the way that the black card is sort of treated
out in society. And one of the things that they
said was complicated is this constant response. And it feels
like a very new response that comes from white people
in saying how sort of like unfair or racist it
is that black people are able to utilize and or

(24:43):
even refer to a black card because the same would
not be true for a white person. That there is
no white card. And I'd love to hear your thoughts
on that white people are crazy. White people are crazy.
There are no black people. I'm about to say some

(25:05):
real stereotypical things, but there are no black people. Like
it ain't it ain't even fair that they put in
cranberries in their potatoes. Have like, we're not over here
looking across the fence saying it's like and you actually
can do that, that's not up to us. If y'all
want white cards, you can have white cards. Yeah, you
can have white cards. But just know if you say,

(25:28):
now give you losing your white card, that it just
feels different. It feels different, it sounds different, it feels different.
But you know what it is. I actually know what
it is. It's because at the end of the day,
black culture is the essence of everything you know, and

(25:50):
we're able to make everything so cool even in our diste.
Instead of saying, oh you ain't you ain't seen this
thing that I've seen, You ain't have the same. Instead
of saying that, we say, run me a black card.
We make everything so cool. But then if you actually
think about it, and this is gonna I'm getting real
hole teppy now you know, if you if you if

(26:13):
you think about doctors, they nap for the listeners at homes.
They just pulls out an on and uh then go ahead.
She literally intense. Uh. You know, when you think about
like actual credit and currency, Right, what's the highest level
of credit you can have when people feel really really

(26:36):
on they it's a black card, right, was hired in
a platinum car was hired in a gold card. It's
a black card. And the fact that we use that
you from, you know, we use that term in a
very different way. It's still a certain they're still we're
still putting a there's a certain like hierarchy to you know,
I'm a white car sounds whack, right, We're we are beautifying, Yeah,

(26:58):
every part of our our language, our communication. Even as
we are taking something away from one of our peers,
it is still taking a It's taken the best of
the best away from them, not just some bullshit to
your point, which a white card would be like I
don't I don't want that in the first place. And
ultimately it's it's celebratory, right, because when you are quote

(27:22):
unquote taking somebody's black card, you're not taking it because
you're not like, oh you ain't kill five nigga's give
right there, nobody saying that. It's like, hold on, there
are these things and our exist in our history that
we we have to, that we want to and that
we always hope will be celebrated. And so the only

(27:42):
reason why we're saying we're taking your black card is
because if you don't know these things, if you haven't
experienced these things, and that means at some point in
this history it will stop, and we don't want it
to stop. And so really it's it's it's celebratory. And
I mean, I think that we have been like the
people who have found a way in all of the
strife and all of the hardship, we found a way

(28:04):
to celebrate everything, you know, And so I think in
essence what that person in that article is saying, we're like,
it's unfair we don't have a white card. It's like, yeah,
and all the ship that y'all have, all the privilege
that the quote unquote privilege that that people say that
a certain group of people have. Y'all don't be celebrating, right, Yeah,

(28:26):
you're white parties. They don't even play music. They just
sort of standing around and check with each other. Listen,
even when you said white party, I thought about a
whole bunch of black people were white. No, But I
think to your point, it's it's we don't always have
a lot. We're not always sitting on like fucking gold

(28:49):
in terms of the resources that we are allotted. But
we are sort of finding ourselves in positions where we're
creating fun and interesting games and all kinds of cool
ship inside of that, and that, I think, to your point,
is frustrating for an outsider looking in who goes, well,
we took everything from them, Why are these niggas still giggling?

(29:12):
Like why the funk are they still finding ways to
have fun inside of that? And that's frustrating. I imagine
if you if you wish that we were dead and gone,
I guess mm hmmmmmm. I just you know, like just
on a just on a person to person level. I rarely,
and I mean, you know, Lenggsten, with all of our
ambitions and goals and and sometimes you find yourself, especially

(29:36):
in this business, you find yourself, you know, looking at
your peers sometimes who may be moving at a different
pace than you, and you may be like, dang, I
wanted that thing too, you know, and why did they
get this thing or get this opportunity? And I didn't
be outside of that. I rarely. I ain't never really
looking across my neighbor's lawn like what they over there doing? Right?

(29:59):
So concept of a person doing that, but then like
an entire like race of people doing like what they
over there doing? And why can't they look like that?
Why can't we do it? That's like crazy to me? Sure, No,
it's I think it is. It's I've never once to
your point I literally I don't even know what the

(30:19):
ladies who live across the street look like. Like, I'm
just mind my fucking business to some extent. And the
idea that people who are not your neighbors, who are truly,
truly just people existing out in the world, are causing
that much of a distraction to you that you feel

(30:39):
like you need to police the way that they speak
to each other, the way that they they are communicating
inside of a smaller world, is fucking nuts. There's no
other explanation for it. But we we gotta help. I mean,
I think this is I think this is our plight,
and like we're gonna we just gotta help. We gotta
help white people. We gotta get white people some cool ship.
We gotta find out what they white card, you know

(31:01):
what I'm saying. We gotta get them a white card.
We gotta get them, we gotta get them some white
culture so that they got that, you know what I'm saying,
So they But here's the thing, we wouldn't care, Like
I swear if I heard two white women like what,
you don't know who paris help in it? Yeah, give
sorry for the impression. I don't know why I have Okay,

(31:27):
you don't know who Paris Hill it is. Give me
your white card, girl, I would not care. I would yo,
it would give me such a good bit. I would
crack up laugh. I would be like, oh, you know, yeah,
I want I want to who else they got to
know about it. We gotta give them a word, They

(31:48):
gotta give them stuff so that they also feel like
we got this cool thing. Yeah. No, I think that's
that's a very beautiful way to look at their insanity.
It's like, yo, y'all could have it too, if you
would just stop focusing on us. You truly, and we
don't even have the power to police you most of
the time. Like even you know, I have frustrating conversations

(32:11):
with with our white peers and in sort of the
comedy industry where they go like, you know, everybody wants
diversity now, and I feel like I'm not. I'm being
overlooked or I'm not getting the opportunities into slight bro.
I don't think that's fucking true. And even if it is,
like there's still so many pockets that we haven't made

(32:31):
it into, Like even if the threshold is starting to
bleed towards wanting black and brown voices mixed into the
whole thing. There's a bunch of ship that just still
is wholly, totally white that you can thrive in and
will not reject you in any way, shape or form.
So like, go do your thing, Go have fun in
your little white space, if that's that much of a

(32:53):
concern for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I was just
I was, you know, I was thinking like also then
be you know, for so long and and and you know,
I really want to hear what else you found or
what another research you found. But it's like, for so long,

(33:14):
you know, a certain group of people were able to
be average or not even you know, and it's like,
so now in order for you to not be overlooked,
you have to be a bit more than it. And
so work on that. That's not actually not my fault,
you know what I'm saying, Like, that's not that's not
our fault. But now you have work to do because

(33:35):
now you can't just show up. You actually have to
show up and stand out. Yeah, this this really shifted
from nineteen fifties NBA to nineteen you know, NBA. You
gotta let's play some ball, you know what I mean?
At gonna cut it and even still not really you

(33:56):
know what I'm saying, I it's very rare. There's still
there's there's so many billboards that are like not like
like we're doing you a favor, We're being severely empathetic
and kind and patient having this conversation. Why am I
being overlooked? Or I wish, well, we don't have a
white car that that shows our compassion. But it's like, yeah, yeah,

(34:21):
we shouldn't. We shouldn't even have to entertain this, you know.
So this is what it got me thinking about because
as I was reading through this article, he's sort of
this author was making a bunch of points about how
the Black Heart itself is not in fact racist, and
so much of it is just a sort of like
response that comes out of, you know, exactly to what

(34:42):
your point, the insanity of white people wanting to modify
and take control of black voices, black perspectives, all of
that ship. But one of the things that I got
to thinking about it, and and I'd love to hear your
thoughts on, is a fear that I've I've been feeling
for a while that maybe we of them too much
of our ship. Do you know what I mean? That like,

(35:04):
sometimes I worry that, especially because of the Internet, we're
making so many of our black cardship available for their
entertainment that when they take it, we're always baffled and like,
how the why would you? How could you, Kim Kardashian
do the things that we do in our spaces, And
it's like, yeah, but we told the bitch everything we

(35:28):
do and a goofy motherfucker like that is gonna naturally
do it. And I'd love to hear where you stand
in all of that. Do you feel like we're giving
too much away? Or is that me shaming ourselves for Yeah,
I think it's I think it's blaming the victim. I
think we're just living. The young black girl that does
a dance on TikTok, she just did a dance that day.

(35:51):
She fucking heard a song, she was inspired, and she's
so gifted that she came up with a fucking dance.
They got millions of youths and then a bunch of
other people do it, So it's not we have to
blame the Ellens of the world who then grabbed the
white kid that co ops that dance and puts them

(36:11):
on the global stage. That's not that that that little
girl was just living her life and utilizing a tool
put in place for her to live her life. That's it.
Do you know what I'm saying? Like, so what so
so so what I'm what am I supposed to do?
Not wear corn rows for fear that the that the
Kardashian is going to where the corn Like? Do you

(36:34):
get what I'm saying? Like, Oh, we're actually doing is
living our lives and in living our lives more and
more so boldly and unapologetically, which I think is absolutely beautiful,
you know, And I think I but but I mean
it goes back to people that ain't nobody give up rock,
Nobody give that up. People was playing their hearts their

(36:57):
souls there. Do you get what I'm saying that it
is not It is not simply that we, uh we
handed it over politely to the people who commodified it.
They simply they took advantage of a situation. They stole
the rights to this type of music or to the
songs themselves, and because they were in charge of the radios,

(37:17):
they were in charge of all the other things, it
became theirs. We didn't hand it over, and I hear
a lot of people exactly. I hear a lot of
people say with with I'll just say protesting like in
this country and around the World's like, well, if we
just stop, you know what I'm saying, if we stopped,
as you say, giving, if we stop spending money, if

(37:39):
we stopped, yeah, sure that sounds good. But what are
we supposed to just stop living our lives? Like you
want us to come to a complete stop. And I'm
not saying I know somebody is probably listening, like no,
no, no no, it's not stop spending your money. It's spending
your money in black were black places. It's like that, Yeah,
that's that's Do you think I don't want to spend
my money in black places? Right? But when I just

(38:01):
need some freaking toilet paper because I just ain't. It
ain't no black toilet paper when a seven eleven and
it ain't no black toilet paper? And Target? Yeah, do
you get what I'm saying? So you you gotta stop.
So it's it's like you it's like really asking us
a person who is really just as people were just

(38:22):
and this shouldn't be blamed like a naively in the
pursuit of happiness. Yeah, no, I think that's fair. And
I will say I feel that fear that I expressed
to you, but then I feel all the things that
you're saying along with it, right, is that people shouldn't
have to to sort of like squash their goals or

(38:44):
their lives or keep secrets from you know, the outside world.
Young people shouldn't have young Black people shouldn't have to
avoid the internet at the cost that like they're giving
away a part of our culture. And so it really
is more a question of like why is it that
there's this incessant need to either control or or at

(39:05):
least take it exists in this white community more than
it is being like black people, shut the funk up.
That's just hot. I was I was on this on
panel recently and they were talking about like black voices
and more specifically black female voices, and like, so how
do we continue to you know, push these stories and something.

(39:28):
I'm like, you know this, this is probably like a
really idealistic answer, but it's actually like a human kind
issue because like I don't need to be a kid
to watch a kid's story. I don't need to be
a man to watch a story. But you know what
I'm saying, I don't need to be white to understand

(39:50):
white people in their stories. And so you shouldn't have
to be a woman to want to see women. You
shouldn't have to be Black or Spanish or ending and
or Asian to want to see those stories. And if
you are, you're the problem. Whoa they NAB's hot, y'all?
She mad, she came on very, she came on very bois,

(40:14):
her bun is undone. Now her air is everywhere, you know,
And it's like, I don't know quite how to fix
an issue that I feel like starts in like the soul. Well,
I mean, you know, that is the challenge that we're
facing now, and it's sort of the frustrating one that

(40:36):
that I at least feel sometimes in in these there's
this instinct now where white people say some crazy shit
and we shame them, we we tweet at them, we
go how you you should know, mr Man, that actually
this was started by a black person, and shame on
you for not knowing that. And it's like, I don't

(40:58):
know that that's fixing anything anymore. And that's part of
what I mean about life, the giving, and maybe it's
more of a giving of our own spirit because the
reality is is that their souls are so broken in
a lot of ways that there's yeah, I think they're finking.
You know, I'm laughing at both of us, like God days,
but for us to know and work with so many

(41:19):
white people, But no, I think there's such a brokenness
in the way that that as a mass their culture
moves that you shame me. It's not like you say
that ship and they go, oh ship, My bad. I
didn't realize I've learned something today. And maybe that's a

(41:41):
natural human instinct, right, like we're not always quick to
to acknowledge our weakness. That's the very animal thing that
exists inside of us. But I do genuinely think we've
reached the point where we have to stop negotiating with
with qualities that we know are they they know, they're
not dumb, They're fully aware. They just don't like us, bro,

(42:05):
And you tweeting at them ain't gonna make make them cooler,
you know. M hmm. Let me ask you this though,
and this is just this is a little aside. Have
you ever seen like a white person make a mistake
and then a black person call them out and you'd
be like, damn, I didn't know that either. All the time. Now,

(42:25):
what black person, did you know? I would have lost
I would have lost my black card, but then white
person just got down. Yeah it's crazy, brother, any who, Uh, yeah, No,
it happens all the time. And so it's one of
those things that I think, I think we all have

(42:46):
have a responsibility to just be humans inside of some
of this ship and be honest that, like if a
person corrects you, a person corrects you, it isn't always racial,
It isn't always rooted in some like indignity to to
another person's like culture. It truly might just be you
got some ship wrong. And if you can un undo

(43:07):
the part of you that goes like why is this
white man saying this to me or this black lady
talking to me this way, we might be able to
just reach a point where we go. My bad dog
truly had no idea. My card stays intact, Everything is,
Everything is as it should be in terms of who
I am. Because we're we're a little more tolerant of
each other. Mm hmm. Let me ask you this last

(43:30):
question before we go to break. I'm curious to know
because one of the things that this article sort of
addresses is this massive wave of of sort of like
young black people especially, but I think it's black people
of all kinds who sort of are are constantly pushing
Blackness is not a monolith, right that there is no

(43:52):
singular black experience. Yeah, our experience. It's all the people
that are like why why is a black man who
I have to vote for Democrats? The Democrats ain't done
shipped for me? Like where do you think they fall
in the world of losing black cards? Is a person
who who sort of takes the position that like, yo,

(44:13):
I don't want to align with all of these these
things suddenly less black or is that more complicated as well?
That's definitely more complicated, And I don't think I mean,
I definitely don't. And in terms of like, um, the
black card, I think that they're like culturally prevalent things,
but not not so much political things like if somebody

(44:37):
is like yeah, if somebody is like well why especially
if they're especially if they worded in question form, you know,
then I'm not gonna be like, oh you ain't. You
ain't vote abiding man, you you're losing your black card.
Like I think that, I mean that that might be
the most idiotic things. Sure you know, and and it's

(44:57):
it's actually more insulting when because it just hit me
thinking about that statement. When a white person kind of
tells you that you're not black, enow, you're losing your
exactly exactly, like if you don't vote for me, then
you're not black. It's like, that's the same as saying
that work, you said something, you said something in the

(45:17):
community that you ain't a part of, You don't got
you can't even determine that, you know. But I think
that a quote unquote cultural staple is different than a
hard conversation, even if it's a conversation of discourse in
an attempt to, I don't know, find a solution a

(45:40):
group of people. I don't think that I don't think
that a black card plays in I think that's a
healthy way to approach it. Yeah, I think it's a
dangerous game when we start getting into political conversations and
sort of like these grander, existential even conversations. But to
your point, if we're talking about like, yo, you ain't

(46:01):
you don't you know, do this with your grits? All right,
that's that's a conversation where we can remain silly and
casual inside of it and still be healthy communicators on
the other side of it. Yeah, Like, I have the
same response if a person is black or white. If
somebody is like, um, they voted for I don't care

(46:23):
what you look like. If today you're like, no, I'm
fucked or world war I'm gonna have the same sort
of response. That's not a that's not a black or
you know what I'm saying. That's not like I'm not
gonna be like, oh man, you want to you want
them to go to war? You ain't black. I'm gonna
have I don't care what what your gender is, what
your ethnic makeup is. I'm gonna have the same response. Yeah,

(46:43):
this ain't a racial conversation no more. You're a nut,
and I would like you to stop behaving the way
you're behaving. But I think that there are certain things
that are in that same demo that I named eighties, nineties,
early two thousand's that they experience it's in a very
like white way that I didn't experience, and that and

(47:05):
and that would be okay. If they were like shocked
that I didn't except, that would be okay. And if
amongst their peers, like if white people sat at the table,
and we're like, you didn't see signs felt right? I would,
I would understand that. Yeah, yeah, And I think they
do shame each other for that. And maybe point they

(47:26):
can start adding cards to this ship, like take some
cards away, let's see. Let's I think this is the
grander point that I think I'm getting from all of this.
We need to create more hierarchy in the white community.
You all have been living sort of at this like, uh,
this shared white experience without acknowledging anything for too long.
I'm trying to see some some kings and some queens

(47:48):
rise up. I'm trying to see some poppers fall down.
Let's let's start a white world war, is what I'm saying.
Let's I ain't even I won't be there, I won't
tune in. I won't. It's like what they what they do.
It's just like my neighbor across the street. I don't

(48:10):
know what they're doing over there, and I don't care
to know. They ain't none my business. All right, We're
gonna take one more break. We'll be back when more's
at Johnson More my mama told me, and we are.

(48:35):
Ain't nobody got time for that. Yeah, we're back here
when Moore's they nab Johnson more. My mama told me,
we're still talking about the possibility that a black card
can be lost, taken away, revoked, as the the Classic
Card Games suggests. Okay, this is exciting for me because
as I was looking through research and trying to unpack

(48:56):
the possibility of sort of exploring this conversation with you,
one of the things that I found is a a
running list on ironically buzz Feed of all places, you know,
the place where all black people go for their for
their news and information. But buzz Feed had a list
of things that they believe or at least a a

(49:16):
Twitter conversation started that might represent the revocation of someone's
black card. They're taking away of someone's black card. And
I'd just like to run through some of this list
with you and see where you fall in terms of
number one, whether or not you this would in fact
take your black card away, But number two, whether or
not you think that these are important enough to be

(49:39):
deciding the worth of someone's blackness. Okay, all right. The
first one, and this was originally this entire sort of
like train was started by this dude, Chris Evans, not
Captain America on Twitter. But he said, don't revoke my
black card. But I've never seen the whiz black hard.
He's got his. He's losing his black card immediately. Only

(50:03):
for that. That's the thing that's the beauty about the
black card. It's like two seconds later they you take it.
You know what I'm saying, like, you get it back, okay.
You know it's like we got multiple black cards because
it's like lengths and if you took my black card,
then I could go and sit down with another black
person and it's like they don't even know you got

(50:24):
my black it's reinstated. That's a nice You're right, it's
a very nice thing of I can go, I can
go spend time with a different group of individuals and
they're like this the blackest black andy motherfucker I ever
met in my life. And you're like, yeah, I'm back, baby,
Yeah yeah, I got I got nine black cards that
are being held from me right now. But I got

(50:45):
thirty two black cards over here. So now a couple
of these places I can't go back to. They got
my picture on the wall, they say I can't come
back in. But everywhere else I'm good. I'm still black.
I'm good exactly, but I don't think the wind. I
would never say that the not seeing the whids makes
you not black. Maybe you don't like musicals. That's a

(51:06):
good that's a good response, because but now I am
I'm gonna be real honest with you, like saying I
might give a black person a side eye if they like,
I don't funk with the wids. But oh that that
that wizard of Oz. That that Wizard of Oz. Don't
that that's my ship? I don't wid. Then then I'm

(51:32):
gonna be like, yeah, because now you're adding a layer
to this ship that didn't exist before. Hold On, it's
the same story. Hold on and the songs say different
in the wind. You're making a hard choice there. Okay,

(51:52):
this was This was another one that came up. It
was not knowing how to play spades? Where do you
fall in the spades conversation? And of at all. I
do understand that people I take spades very seriously, but
I wouldn't take somebody's black card because I wouldn't expect
to lose my black card because I didn't know how
to play spades. Because I also think spades is a
very regional thing. I agree, because there's card games that

(52:17):
people from the South say, I have never heard of
them in my life. I've never heard of these card
games in my life. But it's but but that's what
they play. They don't place. But you know, so my
wife and her her grandmother and grandfather play pinuckle, and
they like fucking They used to. They go crazy with pinuckles.

(52:37):
They used to be in tournaments for pinnuckle. And then
one time I was like, hey, bro, just teach me
how to play pinuckle and it's the goofiest fucking game
because you gotta add extra cards to the deck and
all the ship. But they're from Maryland. So if I,
you know, and in Maryland, some old black household, I go,
I don't know how to play pinuckle, They'll be like,
get your corny asside of our house. This you ain't

(53:00):
playing pinuckle. What you're doing. I'm happy that you set
cards because when you said pinuckle, although I've heard that
before because I'm sure if somebody kicked me out for
not knowing how to play pinuckle, but I don't even
know when you said it, I was like, does that
involve dominoes? Like what, what are the tools of this game?
The instruments that we use for this game. I love that. Okay,

(53:22):
this is a this one hit me. This was very
complicated for me. This one came up where someone said,
don't revoke my black card, but I've never seen the Wire.
Well maybe they just couldn't afford HBO. See it's certain
things you have to you get what I'm saying, Like,
but but here, here's here's a funny story. I was
how sitting years ago for this white woman who lives
in Veness, her her and her husband artists, like really

(53:45):
really hit the artist, and I'm how sitting and as
I leave, She's like, Zana, we left the box, but
we left the season one DVD set of The Wire
if you want to check it out? What does that mean?
And I felt, I don't know, but the fact that
she was white made me made me check it out.

(54:06):
But I swear it was a black lady. I would
have been like, girl, I'm watching what you know? But
like that told me to watch the Wire, And oh
my god, I watched the Wire, you know, but for
some reason, I just felt like it was like the
black things she had in her house yet like that,
and you know, and so and so, I I never
watched it. But here's the thing it was funny about

(54:26):
some things are so in the zeitgeist at a certain time.
I've never I've seen episodes like Independent, you know, some
episodes of The Wire. I didn't watch the entire you know.
But but that's truly because I was poor, sure, and
and it's like I'm a kid when the Wire is on.
My parents didn't have HB Like that's simply what it was.

(54:46):
But even more to that's like, to me, it's a
really weird thing for that to somehow question your black
card for a television show like you said on HBO,
which is, you know, a prime network, premium network network
that wasn't served the same black people for a really
long time. But then additionally is made by a white man,
Like it's not like this Mother Care is like nobody's

(55:08):
like David Signon is down dog. That's that's that's mother
we rock with. It's just he made the thing. But
here's the thing, I know, who string our bell is?
I still as much as I never seen it. I
know the guy never seen the episode of Power, but
it wasn't for me, and I moved on. And I
don't tell people often yeah, yeah. I mean I keep

(55:30):
quiet too. Whenever you know I haven't, I don't. There's
very few black people that I have interacted with outside
of the world of comedy. And one of the worst
things because you know they're watching there's so many spinoffs now.
They sometimes they see you the morning after they watched
the last episode, so it's like, have you seen have
you seen Power Book? And I'll be like, I don't
even say I haven't seen it. Like I don't say no,

(55:52):
I don't want. I used to say I don't watch it,
but I stopped saying that because it gets a certain response.
Now I say I haven't seen it yet. On my wife,
I haven't seen it yet. That's actually where I'm at
him right now. I'm about it's on my It's on
my list of things to do, just not yet, but
but definitely not never, not never, not yet. You know

(56:13):
what I'm trying to see? What come on? Okay, I'm
gonna hit you with a couple more and then we're
gonna head out of here. But but this one was
interesting to me. Hating color greens, black eyed peas, baked beans,
and yams. They listed all the foods apparently, but this
entire list of foods potentially could revoke your black card.

(56:35):
Where do you stand in all of that? Yeah, you
can lose you. I mean I wouldn't personally take somebody's
black card away. I would be wondering, like what your
taste buzz is like, because it's like those are pretty
good tasting, like they're different too, like you mentioned sweet
stuff and savory. Like where do you just exist on
like the scale of like food, like you like that
forget being black. It's just like I don't really want

(56:55):
to go out to eat with you, Like that's to me,
you know, but I do understand with like if you're
not that's that's essentially sold food, and you're saying you
ain't rocking with all the soul food sides, then it's like, yeah,
they're gonna they're gonna take a black right. That's how
I felt, was like if I say all four of
these things are gross, me cool, take it away. I

(57:16):
don't deserve this ship. But if I'm like, yo, I'm
more of a greens some black eyed peas dude than
a yams and you know big beans dude, what that's
just preferential. Man. We all got different taste. But yeah,
and then you ain't even really saved yourself. You ain't
be like but I've loved sweeper tato. You know what
I'm saying. You would have came with the positive at
the end. You just you just laid all the sides

(57:40):
out there. It's like you so you don't like the vestigies.
All this starts just okay, mm hmmm, I'm gonna heard
you with one more and then we are going to
get out of here. I want to find a really
good one on this list. Oh this this will do.
Not owning a bonnet to protect your hair at night,
does that get your black card taken away from you? No? Okay,

(58:05):
don't all right, no it doesn't because I mean lengthy.
I think you know this. I had a shape tap
for eight years. I ain't nothing and that will. Let
me just tell you I felt free. I felt for
really okay. I felt for real. I didn't think about
my head when I laid down and go to sleep.
I felt I felt for really okay. Every every shower

(58:28):
the water was running on the top of my head,
I felt for really okay. So no, and we all
have different like I mean, the bonnets are very useful
and and very helpful and protected for specific hair type.
But that goes back to black people not being a monolith, right,
Like we all have different hair types, and a lot
of people think, which this is a really ignorant thought,

(58:50):
that you have to be a mixed race person to
have a particular hair type. And it's like, you know,
I'm the same, It's all my I'm the same as
all my twelve other siblings. I got the most course
hair right of the sibling. My sisters have hair that
you would say, oh, are you Ethiopian? And said, you
know what I'm saying, Like they're trying to figure it

(59:11):
out because people believe that black people have one type
of hair if they're not something other than Do you
get what I'm saying, there's not some sort of exoticism
attached to their blackness? Yeah? No, I have a homie
who I asked recently just found out that he hadn't
been perming his hair this whole time. He's like an
older dude, and so I thought he was still doing

(59:32):
like that ship that Diddy and Loon did back in
the UH and that I Need a Girl Part two video,
you know what I mean? Like they were how they
had like the finger wave joints. I was like, baally,
this thing is still doing the finger waves, Ship, and
he was like, na I just I'm just a black
man with with softer hair than than Yeah, you know
my counterparts and I don't. I don't know where it

(59:52):
comes from, but that's just the way it's always been.
I was like, oh, Ship, all right, cool, I'm glad
to know you ain't doing this over your sink like
we did in high school. Yeah, it's so it's so
interesting too, like that last one you asked me. It's
funny how you someone can say if you don't own
a bonnet as a black because really they're talking to
black women, right, It's like black guy's own bonnet. It's
like if you don't own a blond, if you don't

(01:00:14):
own a bonnet, then you lose your black card or
you're not black. But then a black woman, comedian Monique,
told us, why are you wearing your boy? Why I
got to see your bonnet? You know what I'm saying.
So there's also this there's also this opposing conversation that
happens with it. That's the reason why the black card
is so fun Yes, and to your point, if we

(01:00:37):
keep it fun. This is a game worth playing. But
if and you said this originally, if we take it seriously,
this ship is asked because it's just a bunch of
people yelling at you from different directions, being like you're
not black enough, you ain't black in the right way
that I expected. It's crazy. Yeah, damn, I think we

(01:00:57):
did as they nap. I think we. I think what
a wonderful episode. This was great. Could you tell the
people at home what you have going on and where
they can find you? First of all, y'all better catch
me being a burger on the bus down on bus
Down on Peacock available now. And also you guys can

(01:01:18):
catch me. Season two of Upload premiered on Amazon March eleventh,
and so check that out. If you haven't watched season one,
check that out. And in social media most platforms, it's
zat a Johnson and in TikTok it is the Zinta
Johnson TikTok got they got you, you got beat, they
got well. Please following now, please watch Upload season two.

(01:01:41):
She's great, And yeah, watch bus Down, that'd be amazing.
Watch bust Down. She's a burger in it and she
kills the role. She screamed in a way last and
screamed in a way that I had never heard a
sound come out of her voice before, and it truly
jarred me in a in a way that I'll never forget.
Um And as always, you can follow me at Lanksteon
Kerman on all platforms I ain't on TikTok. Don't bother

(01:02:03):
and uh lasting and not least please you know, subscribe, review,
do all the bullshit you're supposed to do the podcast.
I don't know. I just say this at the end
because I'm supposed to, all right by subscribe My crop
chips in your qualis a racist. The whole schools money stuff,

(01:02:37):
I can't tell me