March 12, 2021 • 66 mins
In our latest chapter, David Bowie went from Starman to Soulman, trading high concept sci-fi tales and glam rock for the music that had enthralled him as a boy — rhythm and blues. David’s renewed love of R&B was stoked by his new girlfriend at the time, a striking young model and burgeoning singer named Ava Cherry. They’d met at a party in early 1973 and quickly hit it off. As she would later say, their romance had all the hallmarks of a fairy tale — strolls in Paris, nights in an elegant castle, cheering crowds, celebrity friends and lots of great songs. Sounds almost like a Disney movie — except for the fact that David was still technically married to his wife, Angie. That part’s a little different.
Ava acted as Bowie’s guide through the American soul scene, fulfilling his lifelong dream by bringing him to Harlem’s legendary Apollo Theater. David’s renewed passion for soul led him to Philadelphia to cut the relentlessly funky Young Americans, which featured Ava on backing vocals. She also joined him onstage as part of the so-called ‘Philly Dogs’ tour in late 1974. In addition to her role in helping shape Bowie’s musical legacy, she shared his private life — loving a side of David that few would ever get to see. Ava spoke to Jordan about her time with David, and the memories and music that they shared during those golden years in the mid '70s.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.
I'm your host Jordan Runtug, Thanks so much for listening.
In our latest chapter, David Bowie went from starman to
soul man, trading high concept sci fi tales for the
sounds that enthralled them as a boy, rhythm and blues.
(00:22):
From the moment he first heard Tutti Fruity back in
the fifties, he'd wanted to be Little Richard. Somewhere along
the line, his gold shifted. But when he arrived in
America in the spring of fo to mount his budget
busting Diamond Dogs Tour, he began to reconnect with the
music that had inspired him so long ago. This current
tour was an overblown spectacle, weighed down with rigid choreography,
(00:44):
strict music cues, and huge sets, not to mention the
dark dystopian narrative. Impressive, yes, but all the theatricality didn't
leave a lot of room for genuine emotion. A little
David's heart and soul, or in this case, billy soul.
David's renewed love of R and B was stoked by
his new girlfriend at the time, a striking young model
(01:05):
and burgeoning singer named Ava Cherry. They had met at
an after party for a Stevie Wonder concert in early
nineteen seventy three and quickly hit it off. As she
would later say, the romance had all the hallmarks of
a fairy tale strolls in Paris, knights and an elegant castle,
fancy dinners, cheering crowds, celebrity friends, and lots of great songs.
(01:26):
Sounds almost like a Disney movie, except for the fact
that David was still technically married to his wife Banjie.
That parts a little different. David fostered Ava's budding musical talent,
recording her as part of a soul trio he'd assembled
called the Astronets. The group was short lived, but the
sessions are well worth checking out. In return, Ava acted
(01:47):
as Bowie's guide for the American R and B scene.
Her father had been a musician, and she regaled David
with tales of life on the Black Blue circuit in
nineteen forties Chicago. She also fulfilled his lifelong dream by
bringing him up to Harlem's Apollo Theater to see some
of the hottest R and B acts in the country.
As we all know, David's reignited passion for soul led
(02:09):
him to Philadelphia to cut the relentlessly Funky Young Americans.
The album featured Avid Cherry on backup vocals alongside Robin
Clark and a young Luther vandros Ava also joined him
on stage as part of the so called Philly Dogs
tour in late nineteen seventy four, but she also shared
his private life as a girlfriend, loving a side of
David that few would ever get to see. Their relationship
(02:32):
wouldn't endure, but she continues to honor David and her music.
Last January, she released a funked up version of Bowie's
three hit Let's Dance, and this year she joined the
Star Started virtual tribute concert, belting out ferocious versions of
Young Americans and Fame, just as she did on the
original recordings. In addition to recording a new album of
(02:53):
original songs, she's also working on a film about her
life with Bowie, which is slated to resume filming this summer.
If of It nineteen allows if I spoke to me
about her time with David and the memories of music
that they shared during those golden years in the mid seventies.
I supposed to start take me back to the night
(03:14):
you met David Well, I mean, okay, here it is.
You know, I just moved to New York. And the
funny thing is that I was I was I was
getting a guy who owned a hair salon and I
was modeling and I, you know, I never lived in
New York before. I was just getting myself together. And
my and my friend who owned the UM hair san said,
(03:38):
listen for the New York New York Times New York
Daily News, would you um, would you mind reaching if
we reached your hair blond and short? And uh, I
was like no, you know, I was game. You know.
They said we need, we need to bleach your hair
really like platinum blond and like a short afro. And
(03:59):
I said okay. So I did it, and I was
in the in the paper, in the in UM New
York Times, and so a lot of people saw that
and whatever, and then I got an agent and all
this other stuff. So one day my agent comes to
me and he has this album and he goes, ab listen,
there's this guy named David Bowie and this is his
(04:21):
new record. He's British, and he said he's gonna be
here soon performing a radio city, and you know, I
just thought you might, you know, like to, you know,
listen to his record. Now. I don't know how he
got because David wasn't well known here yet, and he's
at that he was pretty well known and um in Europe.
(04:43):
So I took to I said, okay, I took the
record home and I listened to it, and I mean
I looked at it the album cover, and I said
to myself, wow, he's really he's a good looking guy,
you know, and and I liked it. He's kind of
strange and he's kind of friend, you know, and something.
I put it on and I listened to start listening
(05:04):
to the tracks, and I was just blown away. I
was just blown away. It was so different. It was
so different. Moon Next Daydream was my favorite on the
album with David asked me when he first met me,
which one I liked the best. But I was also,
you know, friends with Stevie Wonder at well, I hadn't,
(05:27):
I hadn't met David yet, but I was friends with
Stevie Wonder and he was in New York doing his
show at Carnegie Hall. And so he said, well, you
know we're gonna do this show, we need a place
to give a party after it. And I was working
in this club called Genesis that uh the guy that
owned the was was the actually steakhouse, Rocky Ioke. He
(05:51):
owned the Benny Hannas of Tokyo. I don't know if
you ever remember those, Yeah, remember Rocky Rocky Ioke was
the guy's name. And he owned also a club called
Genesis on the East Side. And I worked as a
as a cock stow waitress in there. And so I
said to Stevie, I said, well, I work in this
(06:13):
club called Genesis. I'm sure that let's you give a
party in there. It's a nice place to give a party.
So they got ahold of the people and the next
thing we knew the party was gonna be a Genesis,
So nither party. I show up and you know, I'm dressed,
I'm looking fabulous because it was This was right after uh,
Stevie's concert and he didn't incredible incredible standing ovation concert
(06:36):
at Carnegie Hall. And so I walk in. As I'm
walking in, Steve is standing at the door. And Steve
has just stev wonder as an incredible thing that he
could sometimes know who's there even when he doesn't see them,
you know, I'm saying, and if I was walking to us,
he goes with, maybe you smell my perfume. I don't know,
(06:58):
he said. He said, is that a Charry? I? How
do you know it was me? He goes, I know,
I know, right, So started off the night really good.
Everybody was in a great movie because, as I said,
his concert was stellar. I mean, he just sanging his
heart out, you know, that night, and he got a
stand in ovation. And so you know, we're downstairs and
(07:21):
everybody's been invited gladys and I think of reading money
even there just a lot of more soul artists you
know that, you know, but some big names. So I'm
standing there. They start singing. So a song comes on
and everybody in the rooms just start singing in the room,
whatever the song was. You know, all the great singers
(07:42):
are standing there singing like you know, I wasn't really
a professional singer yet or anything like that, but I
was standing there with them, right, And so everybody's singing
and my men and my agent comes up to me, goes,
you're nothing to believe who's here? I'm like, who's that guy?
David Bowie. What because right this time I played that
(08:04):
record about a hundred times and I was like already smitten.
I was in love and he just was just listening
to the music and looking at the picture just because
it was so different and it was so well done.
I was like, oh my god. He goes, I'm gonna
go get him and introduced to I was like, oh
my god. I was like freaking out cut of inside,
(08:25):
you know, because he brings him over and David's wearing
this like a lectric blue suit and he has his
hair is really high, it's real ziggy, and he was
red really and so he walks up to me because
he was this is David Bowie, David, this is Avid Sherry.
David says to me, it was a pleasure to meet you, Ava,
and it just I was like, oh my god. And
(08:48):
he goes, I love your hair, and I said, I
love your soup. So you know, we both had this
hair colored thing in common and that I was kind
of weird and the black thick with you know, blond
blond everro and so anyway, we start talking and and
and oh and then they was singing and I was
kind of singing in between well started, he goes, you're
(09:10):
a singer, and so I said, well, yeah, you know,
I mean I wasn't a professional yet, but I wasn't
gonna say no. I mean, any anything I think I
can do, I'm gonna say yes until you proved me
that I can't do it. Okay, then then I'll be
you know, then I can't do it if I can't.
But anyway, so we were just you know, then we
started talking and he was like, well, you know, I've
(09:33):
just done my my first album for America and I'm
playing video see this weekend. You know, I'm planning a
a tour, a world tour, and I'm gonna be in Japan,
and I'm thinking maybe you might be good for this,
this this part to do this, he said, you know
the look and everything like that. Now, if you can sing,
(09:54):
that's really great, you know, and you know you already
be saying a little bit, but he said, you you'll
have I said, okay, if you want me to, and
I said, he said, I'll have to introduce you to
my manager, Tony Freeze. And you know, we had rehearsal
tomorrow at our ci A. Can you make the rehearsal
and do an audition and I said, yeah. So the
next day, I mean our our Cia and the Spiders
(10:18):
were there. That's the first time I met them. Actually,
I didn't really hang out with them too much when
I first met David. I there was a couple of times,
like when we did the nineteen eight four show and
all others where I really worked in in Earl's Court
and all that, but basically I was I was in
the same room with the Spiders. It was great, you know,
so anyway you got God was days. I don't know
(10:38):
was Storme we did. I sang the manager her and
he goes, yeah, I think she were great for this part. Right.
So the next thing I knew, David said to me, okay, listen,
you know you're gonna have to um what we had
dinner and you know all the other niceties. And of
course I was just just fall I was smitten, is
(11:00):
all I can tell you. I was submitting. Ah. It
was so nice because after we did the audition, he said, well,
would you have dinner with me tonight? And I was like,
and he said, we'll go see a show or something.
Go and go see a life performance. I think Charlie
Mingus was with him. Yeah yeah, and I said yeah.
(11:23):
So like got all dressed up and I met him
at hotel and he was dressing I was a gentleman,
he opened the door, he was he was just he
was just the best. And so we had the most
wonderful dinner, and then we went to see Charlie Mingus
and like, I really wasn't into Charlie Mingus because I didn't.
He was kind of abstract for me. But David was
(11:44):
really into it, and you know, I got into it.
I just because I love all music. But I just
really wasn't familiar with Charlie Mingus when he was telling
me about him. So when we we we saw that show,
and so he says, um, well you want to come back,
and he the Champagne's Hotel and I'm like, yeah, why not.
(12:06):
Why not. I'm having a glass, I'm having a good time.
So he was like, well, which song did you like
the best on on that album? And I said, oh,
moon Age day Dream. I love it. I fell in
love with it. I'm so in love with that song.
He goes, Okay, that's great, you know, And so anyway,
you know, I spent the night there. Of course I
spent the night there where else was I gonna go?
(12:29):
I mean, just wasn't anything better than that to do.
And we had the most wonderful romantic evening and that
was how it began. That is a beautiful first day,
that is that is a first date for the books.
It really. But there was a problem. The tour never
(12:50):
came together. What happened there? The tour that he was
telling me how that they wanted me to do got
canceled because he got sick. He got the food and
and they said, oh, so what happened was is I
I He told me he was gonna call me. I
have to fill this in. And he said, I'm gonna
send you the records that you're that you're gonna learn,
(13:10):
I tell you your ticket and everything that. So um uh,
you know, we can get everything going. So I said, oh, yeah, okay,
Well I have to go to Chicago and say by
to my parents before I go to Europe or anything.
So I quit my job in New York. I I
got rid of my apartment. I had everything set up,
(13:31):
and I was doing fine, you know, and and and
I had the job of Genesis, and then I was
modeling and singing too whatever and then uh, I get
home after doing all of that, and three days after
I was here in Chicago, I get a telegram saying, EVA,
so sorry, David became ill and we have to cancel
(13:53):
the tour. I was like, oh my god, oh no, no,
my whole life here. I am back in Chicago and
I had my life on the right track. You know,
how was that? So? I was? I was so depressed
for a couple of days. I was trying to figure
out what to do. And I had remembered that this
(14:13):
guy that was from from Germany, he had a place
in the south of France and Monaco, and he had
asked me if I wanted to spend the summer hanging
out in Monaco. Now, I didn't really want to be
with him, so when he sol when he asked me,
I told him no. But when this happened that they
(14:37):
sent me that telegram, I called him up and I
told him yes because I just saw that it was
my only way to get to Europe. I didn't really
have the money to go, and it was my only
way to get you know. I heard that he you know,
David spent time in France and in London, and whether
he was in Francis, So I said yes, and so anyway,
(15:00):
he sent me the ticket and the next thing I knew,
and I've never been a year before, I was in
Marco and I was like, that's the most beautiful, funny
place in the world. What the hell are like? Three
years so great? I mean, I was loving it, he was.
It was really beautiful. And of course he was rich,
this guy, so he was chased being very nice. But
I didn't like him like that, you know, I didn't
(15:22):
feel romantic, and he was really wanting to be romantic. God,
I it's nothing worse than a guy. Was we romantic?
But you were You don't want to be romantic with him?
So so, but but he was a nice person. I
didn't want to I wasn't trying to be mean, but
I did see him as a means to an end
(15:42):
and I'm being honest. Um. Anyway, So I was there
for a little while and he had a friend, another
girl that you know, and it was older and she
apparently was wealthy to him. Her grandmother given her another
art uh in the south of France, you know, you know,
(16:03):
they all hang out together. This was his I suppose
maybe was somebody who might have been married to or
whatever before or whatever, and they were still friends anyway.
To make them a story short, I was starting to
all I could think of was David, you know, and
how I just wanted to find him. And and so
she she she called me up one day and she said, Eva, listen,
(16:25):
I am seeing that you are not liking Hines, like
you are not really loving to be with Hines. And
I was like, well, I wan don't mean to be
anything me I did. I just I just I just
want to go to France with something, you know. So
she goes, would you feel better if you did not
(16:46):
stay here in the party with him? And and and
I she said, my grandmother left me an apartment and
you could stay there if you wanted to, for the
rest of your time here. And I said okay, So
she moved me over there. So I was there one
day and I had met this little nice guy and
he was having tea with me. Right he comes to
the guy that invited me comes to the door and
(17:10):
I opened it and this guy isn't there. But we
were doing anything even We're just talking, okay. So he goes, Okay,
I can't see that you don't, you know. He wants
to be with me, and you want to be with
somebody else, so you want to go to Paris. I said, well,
I would like to go to Paris. He said, okay.
I said, but I need you to give me a
(17:31):
thousand francs so because you know, so I can you know,
He said, no, I give you the money, just uh
And I said, well where do I go? He goes,
you go to to get try to find a hotel
in the near the Budleavard Saints your Man and and
and then you know, try to go to the the
(17:53):
cafe the floor and that's where all the celebrities hang out.
That's where everybody hangs out. Here is anybody. So that's
what I did. I got, I gave me the money.
I took the train and I got in and I
checked into this this like all girls, all women's hotel,
which was right like about five blocks away from the
(18:16):
boulevards cent Germain, and it was it was nine. He
was cleaning and so that was it. And then you know,
after about eight months, I started getting kind of because
you know, I would be hearing that David was had
come to Paris. Some different people are reading it in
the music papers or something, but I never you know,
you know, it was like maybe one time I read that.
(18:37):
And so one day I'm in this bar and I
hear them speaking in French, and I hear them saying, oh,
David Bowie. H David Bowie es. So when I heard
his name, I've been running down, said excusion one two
idea David Bowie. And he said, we I shake a step.
(19:00):
So he's across the speed. It's Castell. I'm like I really,
I'm like really, he goes, wait. So I'm like, I
look cute. I look pretty. But I was not dressed
as Castel because it was a very you know, pearls
and diamonds kind of a club. I don't care. I
just went running across the street. And he had like
(19:21):
a stairwell that was spiral down, and I went inside
and I was looking down from a stairwell, looking around.
And so David's bodyguards Stewie saw me and he comes
and he goes, have why are you doing here? I said,
I came to find David. He can't just do me
(19:42):
like that. I mean we had such a wonderful time
and and and and I just I quit my job.
But I was saying right. He goes, oh my god,
the governor is going to freak out race these you
called him the governor, the governor, the governor right, And
he was really caught me. It was like that he
was a gardenist, gup when he sees you, mate, you
(20:02):
know that anyway, So he so David was sitting talking
to this woman that was dripping in diamonds and pearls. Right,
he was talking to her, and so he has my hand.
He pulls me up to in front of David. David
looking at her and all said. He turns it. He
sees me. He goes, Eva, what are you doing here?
(20:23):
And I was like, I came to find you. I
came to find you. I didn't want you to leave me.
I was, I quit my job and went home. And
then you said he was canceled, and he was like,
oh wow. He says, I'm really sorry. I got ill.
He said, but you came over You came all the
way over here just to find me. And I was
(20:44):
like yes. He was like, oh wow. So he was
talking to her and then to see he sit sit down,
I said, now. And the next thing, now he says
something there and then he goes let's go. And that
was it. And we walked out and got a limousine,
even went to Doeville, which we had the most ro
magic evening was soon. Doeville is the studio where he
(21:06):
was recording pin ups built in a in a former castle.
He took me to a literal castle, I mean, the
fairy tale continues. Oh my god, Oh my god. It
was a castle that because I've never been in a
seventeenth century castle like that before. You know, you just
go on to England and go to and it was
it had like you know, fireplaces that were as big
(21:27):
as a wall, you know, like that, you know, and
they had made it into a recording studio and we
spent like a week there. It was heaven. Wow, that
was That was how it began. Now what were you do?
What did you do when he when he wasn't busy
sort of attending to the business of being David Bowie
(21:49):
touring and recording and all that. Well, what did you
like to do together? What would how would you like
to spend a day or a night out in the
town together? What would you love to do together? Oh? Well,
we used to we would go and have dinner and
we walked by the sin and we would you know,
we'd go see other artists perform, you know, like you know, uh,
Brian Ferry. He and Brian Ferry were good friends too,
(22:10):
and you know, um they were great. We'd go, you know,
whoever would be performing. But basically he just liked to,
you know, do because that that wasn't doing a drug
time for David, he wasn't he wasn't doing drugs when
I met him. He would smoke a little hash or
something and drink red wine. So he was always he
(22:31):
was so different. He was like so warm, you know,
because he wasn't doing those things. And this is like,
you know, the first year that I knew him, he
wasn't doing drugs, so so I know and so and
then of course he loves to make love and that
was that was a favorite of ours. Yeah, no, at
(22:59):
what point did you did you know that that Andree
was also in the picture? Well too, three I knew
it early when I didn't because you let me finish
the story about when we were in the hotel and
the next morning, I was like when we first met
him in New York, and I was so excited and
I felt like, wow, I feel like I'm in love
(23:21):
and I don't know, I've never really felt like this before.
I mean, I really was serious what I said. I
I hadn't because he was so different. And so we're
lying there and all of a sudden the phone rings
and he answers it, and he said he look and
he said okay, okay, So he must have said Angie
was downstairs and send her up. So the door knocks,
(23:43):
he goes and answers, doing his Angie. He opens the door,
and I have a role his role on and so
Andie was said, i'd seen you, darling, and he goes, Angie,
this is able, cheery. Hello. She kisses me and hugs me.
This is you know. I just I just I have
to go back to London tomorrow night. And so I
(24:05):
just wanted to stop and say something to before before
I went, I'm seeing here like what I'm like. So
I didn't say much because I didn't know what to say.
This is different. Yeah. So then she goes, okay, I
have to go now, I have to go now. She
(24:25):
was only there like fifteen minutes, maybe in fifteen minutes,
but she was real nice to me and she leaves.
So I didn't know how I was gonna say it
to him. I said, so, David, why didn't you tell
me you were married? I said, all right, I don't
know if I would have been here right now if
I if i'd known that, And so he said, he says, oh, no,
(24:49):
we have an open marriage. She has a girlfriend and something,
she has a boyfriend and you know, and she does
what she wants and I do it. I'm like, really,
are you serious? He goes, yeah, It's been that way
for a couple of years. So by that time I
was already hooked. I was already submitting there was nothing
I could do. But how it felt, I wasn't gonna
(25:11):
let him go. Listen, Jordan's I didn't know. You know,
you're a man. But I'm telling you I wasn't gonna
let him go. I said, well, honey, if he says,
and she's fine with you know me, you know, being
(25:31):
with you, And I said, well, she may not be
to myself, I said, you may not'll be fine. After
I finished here, but I wanted to ask you about
(25:51):
the recording sessions you did with David for the astron Nets.
What was he like working with in the studio? Like
I imagine he must have been a real perfectionist. Oh
he was, but but but he was, you know, he
was a perfectionist. But he was just kind of already
know what he really wanted. So he he made it
feel comfortable. He made it feel fun, is what I'm saying.
(26:13):
He wouldn't it never felt like Oh god, according with
this guy was like it was fun. I had a
boff and you know he would uh you know, no,
just I mean that's basically it. I mean every anything
we worked on, like, you know, we worked on the Asternists,
which were all which were meant to be only demos
(26:34):
because we hadn't finished them, and he told me we
were going to finish them. But then he had this
thing with Tony the Freeze, with the whole thing about
the money, and so he had to stop producing me
and and and it never got finished and Tony went
a hit and released it with just demos. Oh I see,
what is there a lesson from him that that that
(26:56):
you learned from him during these sessions that sort of
sticks with you this to this day. What's something that
that he taught you? Musically? Oh my god, he taught
me a lot of things, not just musically, but and
me taught me to appreciate you know, a lot of things,
you know, classical music, all music. I mean, I I
(27:16):
love clastomer music now because I started out with Vivaldi,
with him and and and and in films, German expressionism
and Andy Warhol and I mean, he taught me a
lot of things. I was. I was a savvy, street
smart young lady, but he you know, I wasn't. I
wasn't an intellectual, but now I am. And so he
(27:41):
taught me. You know, he taught me how to you know,
work the stage and the lights. You know, when we
were on stage together, he go, Okay, I want you
to to come. I want you to go to the stairs.
I want you to be at the top and the
spot's gonna be on you, and I want you to
slowly come down the stairs and then I want you
to start to sing blah blah blah. So he just
taught He was my mentor, you know, he taught me.
(28:03):
You know, it wasn't just a love relationship, which which
I mean, I I did love him. He's the He's
the first man I really loved like that. And um,
but he just taught me, you know, how to how
to handle my stuff like one one time. I remember
we were at an Andy Warhol party and and they
(28:25):
were drinking, you know, great champagne. I love champagne. And
so I was drinking and I was getting a little
bit drunk. I had learned how to drink it to
a point where I didn't feel drunk yet, but I
got a little drunk. And so was the other side
of the room and David. I was talking to somebody
and then I wasn't talking to me. David walks over
to me and he goes, Ava, so listen you you're
(28:51):
a little bit of drawn card ship. And I said, oh,
I guess I am. He goes, okay, but you know
when the press is looking at you and it's can
your pictures? So do you want to be in the
in the magazine or the paper tomorrow, you know, looking drunk?
And I said no. He goes, well, well I just
(29:13):
told you, and you with me, and as I immediately
stopped and it never happened again because I just I
didn't realize that that the that the press was taking
my pictures all the time. If I was near him,
you know what I'm saying. That must have just been
the energy shift of walking into a room together. That
(29:34):
must have been strange to be on the receiving end
of all those flashbulbs and all that. I mean the
first it was At first it was kind of strange,
but then I got used to it. No, but I'm
just saying I didn't he but he was being so
honest with me. He wasn't angry with me because I
was done. He was just saying, don't do it outside
(29:57):
of the house because people to take your picture and
try to make you look bad, you know. And so
I appreciated that he did that. He told me that
it was. It was and and and when from then
on him, whenever we would go out nothing, I would
just be you know. So yeah, it was just I
(30:17):
just he taught me so many things, Jordan, I can't
even just say one, but the music, you know, and
we appreciate. He loved soul music, which is why we
ended up with the other Americans. And he was like,
I want to do a soul record. I love Marvin
Gaye and Rita Franklin and Michael Jackson. And he says,
you know, and that was when we started talking about
(30:38):
doing a solo album. What was it like going up
to the Apollo together and seeing the main ingredient in
the spinners. I mean, that must have been incredible. He
must have flipped. Well, he because I've seen all those
people before. But I'm saying yeah, because I said to him,
he goes, well, where do we go? And so we
got to go to Apollo, which is where all the
great groups performed. And he said, okay, well I gotta
(31:00):
find some people. So somebody attached him to Carlos and
and and because Calls was with the main ingredient and
and so he sent me on to New York. And
then he came like two weeks later, and then we
we went to the Apollo. We drove up to the
Apollo in the limousine and you know that he had
(31:21):
on a red suit with the red hair and I had.
We drove up and all these black people were standing
on the corn and they go, who's that. I said,
that's David Bowie. He said, David Bowie. I said, David Bowie.
He's like, oh, okay, okay, you guys have fun. It
was it was just some funny. You know. They no
(31:43):
black people did not know David until I started being
with him. And you know that they really didn't. They
didn't appreciate him until afterwards. Okay, that we did, Young Americans.
And so then we went in and we were watchingly.
Was Richard Pryor too, was on that bill, The Spinners,
the the Temptations, the main ingredient. And David just enjoyed
(32:09):
that show so much. He enjoyed it so much, he
was like wow. So then he had already uh, somebody
had put him in touch with with with Carlos, I guess.
And so that was what happened. And the next thing
we knew, Um, David had already decided where we were
gonna record, which was a Sigma Sound, and that was
(32:30):
where they bought Luther to the studio, and that's where
he met Luca van Dross. Oh well, I mean all
those incredible Philly soul records coming from Sigma Sound, I
mean that, what were those sessions like with Luther Van
Dress and Robin Clark and Carlos Alamar, What were those
those sessions like? Those must have been fun? Well? Yeah,
they were hard work, though hard work, you know, we
(32:53):
we I mean and even though we did have fun
doing it. I mean I had I had fun because
I was with David. I mean I was after, but
but it was when when we were in the studio,
it was hard when David didn't David was about getting
the work done, so he wasn't about playing around. We
were in there and we were all working real hard,
(33:13):
especially on that song, right, that was the hardest song
in the world to do Lord and Mercenes. He was sorry,
but it was. It was. It was a great experience.
And the funny thing about the Philly sound people is
that he had asked those guys to all play on
the record and they didn't do it because I think
they were kind of scared about him being a white
(33:34):
artist and they had always been, um, you know, black
artists that they had some stuff with. So he's so
but they didn't mind when they said no. He just
got his own band together, you know, he was just here,
very independent. Your father was also a musician, and it
sounds like David got a lot of sort of style
(33:55):
tips from your dad. Like how did they get along? Oh?
My dad was like, you know, the coolest dude. He
was like, they got along like a house on fire.
Please believe me, I I M I. He came to
my house, my parents house, and uh for dinner and
(34:18):
he saw my dad's I was showing him, like, this
is where my dad was in a in he opened.
He was with a band called Benny Laysam Band and
they opened for like Comvasie and some other people wherever
and and and um. They wore these zooe suits in
the in the in the band stand, and so I said,
(34:39):
this is my dad's zoos suits. And but if he
was like what, so, then I think he tried to
jack it on and it looked really cool on him.
So he had Freddie to knock off suits that were
similar to that guster look. And that's where the word
guster came from from me. I'm the one that told
him about the Gowsters in Chicago. They all wore baggy
pants and they all were big, you know suits, suits
(35:02):
kind of close. And what does the word mean. It's
basically like cool dude, Yeah, gowster, you know instead of gangster.
I never made that connection. Yeah yeah, so, but I
mean they made everybody keeps trying to say talk about
that word. He only knew it about that word because
of me. I mean, nobody nobody else knews. And he
(35:27):
started changing making songs and you know, the gowster and
all that and I was like, okay, whatever, and all
the clothes you know that that outfit with you know,
the flight suit that was my flight suit, and the
shoes he had on. The shoes too, I didn't know
the shoes too. He could wear my he could wear
(35:48):
my shoes, could leave it. I got a big seat, though,
I gotta I wear like nine. But anyway, so yeah,
I mean, you know, he really dug my dad, and
my dad dug him. That was a musician, so he
was totally into the mentality. You know, one of my
great heroes is John Lennon. Tell me about being at
(36:09):
the Electric Lady Studios sessions for for Fame and across
the universe. I've been that. That was so incredible because
you know in the you know, in the museum pieces
that you remember David, David Bowie is in all the
countries that it was in and everything like that. Oh,
(36:29):
the exhibitions, Yeah, yeah, right, I represented here in Chicago.
I didn't know it myself, but in some of the
plastic cases that they had David's artifacts in, David had
his diary and there was this one page and my
friends said, didn't you see didn't you see this about you?
And I'm like, what there was maybe two things and
that he wrote down about me and his diary. But
(36:51):
he said, today I introduced Ava to a beatle. Today.
What I say, I couldn't believe it. It was just
one page. Then they took it out and they put
it in the in the click case, and he said,
today I introduced Ava to a beatle, and we're going
to do We're gonna work on a song called Fame.
(37:13):
And that was that was how I'm sorry. Wow, David
doesn't strike me as somebody who's easily star struck, but
I imagine that it's hard not to be around with
John Lennon. Oh no, no, so then, but we were
in Alexi, late Land, waiting for him, right, We're all
set up and everything. He goes, he turns around to me.
He goes, wow, I wonder if he's He says, I'm
so excited to be gentleman. He goes, I wonder if
(37:36):
he wears those granny glasses all the time. And so
I don't know, you know, the doorbell rings, the door opens,
and there's John with the granny glasses on. It was
like unbelievable. David turns around me and looked he goes, oh,
he's got on right. So then John comes in David, right,
(37:57):
you know, they were talking like that and everything, and
he was like, it's a pleasure to work because he
made that's a pleasure and pleasure. So then they started
they were talking and whatever, and John was jamming on
the twelve string and he was playing across the universe.
It was so beautiful. He was playing. You know, you know,
(38:18):
I'm really enjoying itself today. You know, there's not a
lot of sessions I love or enjoy, and I'm really
enjoying myself today. And David just looked and said, oh, really, yeah,
that is so great. Then Yoko comes in with a
great big tray sushi and said that but lunch, and
she puts it down and she leaves. And I understood
(38:42):
exactly why they didn't like her. It was because she
was women's lived and I didn't I didn't know what
until I met her. She was like women's rights, women
being treated equally. And that was what how John treated her.
He treats her like a fleet and so that was
that was what happened there. But it was it was
(39:03):
And so then h and when you know the tha
thaa hey, did that part right there. David tells me
go in there and just keep saying ba ba babying
thing ba baby. I said, why he goes, just do it.
So I went in and I and I did it.
(39:23):
And that's what they ended up with here between his
voice and and and John's and mine mixed together. That
is an incredible trio. That's gotta be fun being part
of that trio. Oh, it was so much fun. It
was so it was so and like I said, I
didn't know why he asked me to do it because
I didn't have never heard of them doing it like that,
(39:43):
but it was so that was great and and and
then then after we finished doing the session, we went
back to the Dakota and he had dinner with them,
you know, and uh, and we just sat up all
night and and we just had the best time with
with Yoko and John. John always seemed like he had
(40:06):
an incredible sense of humor. He must have that must
have made you leave, would make you laugh and stuff.
He would just it was really hysterical. And uh. And
and she had like this this this herbal room, you know,
because in the Dakota it's like nine huge rooms, like
in a big house in a mansion, and they had like,
(40:26):
well maybe at nine, but at least six big rooms.
And she had one room where she did her art
and and everything like that in one room where she
had her her plants and her herbs and all of
that other stuff. And she was real sweet. It's real sweet.
I know that David hung out with Mick quite a
bit Mick Jagger during this period. What was their relationship like?
(40:47):
Was it a rivalry? Was it a friendship? Was that
all the It wasn't It wasn't a rivalry. It was
those two tough guys, two guys that are hot during
the same period, two different kind of genres because David
was Glham rock and Nick was like, you know the
honkey talk blues, you know rocker, you know what I'm saying, um,
(41:10):
And and they were they were. They admired one another,
They admired what one another did, and so we used
to hang out together and go out to dinner together
and party together and all that other stuff, and they
became good friends. One of my favorite songs from from
(41:32):
Young Americans Can You Hear Me, which I believe David
wrote for you, What is what is it like that
David didn't can you hear me? From me? He? Can
you hear me? He were way back, was Lulu. But
but I mean, I don't know whether he did or not.
He never told me did. I'm just saying that when
(41:54):
I was first with him, he wrote it, and then
Lulu sang it, and I I didn't know. Sometimes David
would write songs he wouldn't tell the person if it
was about them or not. You know what I'm saying.
But it would be like the songs that would be
about me would be like stay, stay, It's what I
had to stay or do something. What I never stay
(42:14):
is stay this time. I meant you so bad because
when we held, because you could never really tell when
somebody wants something you want to so it was about
me wanting to be a superstar too. I did and
and and that was one song stay. And there was
(42:36):
the other song, Golden Years. Listen to the words don't
let me hear you say? Lives taking You know where
angel In walked luck and you looked in time always
walked tall at fine because he walked in and I
and reattached to each other. And from then on he
(42:56):
was trying to help me. And he saw you know,
and so you know, and I was that I was
young and I was super young, you know, and he
was that. So there's a there's a there's a lot
of things like that. Those two songs Scolden Years and
Stay that must bring back when you hear them, just
so many memories and well, I can't imagine what that's
like to hear a song that that, that's that enormous
(43:19):
and know, oh, that's that's about me. I'm a part
of that. How is that? You know? I know, I
know he did. But he used to make me feel
sad east Man me feel sad and tearful. But now
now I you know, I just enjoyed it. I know
that it was about me. I hope you feel proud.
Oh I feel proud. I do, I do. I I mean,
(43:40):
I know because when when David and I broke up,
it wasn't because of anything liked be cheating on him
or him cheating on me, or me doing something wrong.
It was because of the business and may Men was
all messed up and they and the money was all
crazy and he didn't know where his money was and
all that. So he just wanted to break from everybody
anything that seemed response that he had to be responsible
(44:01):
for instand. And so I stayed in love with him
for so long because I knew I didn't do anything
wrong for us to break up. It wasn't It was
just a purple stance. And and you know, I mean
I was loyal to him to the end. To me,
I was, you know. And I think a lot of
the people that were around him they hated that I
(44:23):
was with him, that I was there so long, because
I think they thought, as I think Angie thought that
I was just gonna be like, you know, a couple
of months and I was gonna be a flash in
the pan. But I told you she made a mistake
when she did that. Was that seems like such a
difficult period, I mean in Los Angeles in ninety five,
(44:44):
when when you were living with Claudia Jennings, and that
seems like such a dark period. I mean, just what
was it a business and money issues? Was it just
the people? He was? It was business the money issues?
Because when when I when when he had to go
to l A. He said to me, you know, leaving
to morrow Fair, l A. And you know, the guy
had got me an apartment. May Man got me an apartment,
but it was just I was by myself. I would
(45:06):
have been by myself, and you know, I was really
so truthfully, I don't know. I was always getting into
these magical situations where something was saved me from to
older disaster. And I was crying and I the phone
rang and I answered it and it was my girlfriend Claudia,
and she said, hey, but I mean, I'm in New York.
What are you doing there? Let's see you. I was
(45:27):
crying and says, why are you crying? You? And I said, well,
breaking up with David, and I'm I don't know what
to do and he's gonna leave me here and I
just feel kind of like I don't know what to
do with myself. And she goes, well why, I said, well,
he's going through some money problems and things. She said,
you stay right there til I get there. So she
(45:49):
came over and he didn't know who she was because
I never talked about her. The doorbell ring, she comes
in and she was just really ballsy, you know, white
girl that just was like a playmate that you know,
all the man had a fucking drop dead body and
everything like that, but she would think like a man.
I mean, she would do business like a man. She
was really like, you know, she was just a tough broad,
(46:10):
you know what I'm saying. And all the men loved
her because she was beautiful, but she had brains. And
so she she comes in, she goes, she walks over
to him and she I said, this is my girlfriend,
Clay and David he goes, hello, she goes. She didn't
even give him the nicety. She said, why are you
Are you gonna leave able here by herself and you're
gonna go somewhere else? And after all this time you've
(46:32):
been together, and you know, and what does she do?
She does something wrong and she started talking for me.
So he's looking at her like, who is this bitch? Yeah?
But the truth of the matter me is that he
was respecting her because he knew that what she was
saying was right. He was, well, I can't go into
(46:53):
explain you right now, but you know, I gotta go tomorrow.
And so she goes, okay, well I'm taking her with me.
I'm taking order to Jamaica, a new we go to
Barbados and then we're gonna go back to l A. No,
she had said to l A Y. So he just
said okay like that. So we said our goodbyes and
she said pack your things. I packed my stuff and
(47:15):
she just whisked me off and that was it. I
don't know what happened to the apartment they got for me,
because I never went. I just went with her. And
she saved me, because she saved me all kinds of ways.
She saved me mentally because I would have been like
destroyed mentally, like what am I gonna do with myself now?
And and she saved me that she took me to, like,
(47:38):
you know, because she was really good friends with Chris
black But who owned Diving Island Records, and he was
in love with her, so we wouldn't stayed with Chris
and everything for a while, and we had a ball.
Then we ended up back in l A. This is
where she lived, and she lived up to Wonderland and
so we're there and I had I had told David's lawyer, Um, Michael,
(48:02):
who's Michael's last name? Yeah, Michael Littman. You know, you
know what I do. You don't remember Michael Littman. And
I called him when I got to l A with her,
and I said, Michael, listen, can you please a Stavid
to call me, please tell him that I'd love to
talk to him. And so he goes, I'll tell him.
(48:23):
So he did, and he was a full moon that night.
I remember the phone raings and so she answers it
and she goes, oh hey, okay, she answer me me.
He goes, hello, Johnny said David, you know. He goes,
what are you doing here? I said, well, we went
through the islands, and then you know, she caught he
lives here. He goes, she lives here? And I said,
(48:43):
he she's she lives with Laura Kenyon. He goes, that's
where I am. He goes, I'll be down there in
ten minutes. I said, okay, So I told her. I said,
he said he was coming down. She's that's okay. It
was a cool bit. It was really it's really cool.
My god, she got she died. She died really young.
She died when she was like your thirty one. She's
(49:06):
in a car accident, a really bad car accent on
on Pacifical Sideway. But anyway, uh yeah, she has her
Her life was brief. But anyway, so the doorbell rings.
It's David, and I'm so happy to see him. I mean,
my eyes. I know, my eyes looked like I was
happy because I was. I just missed him so much,
(49:27):
and so, you know, we hugged, and so I looked
down and I see he has two suitcases, and that's
the David, why have you got your suitcases? He goes,
I'm gonna stay with you guys for a while. I'm like,
this isn't my house. That's where it got. I said,
(49:48):
this isn't my house, you know, And so Claudia standing there,
I said, Claudia, she goes, that's okay, that's okay, I'll
work out something. I mean, this is how she was talking.
She wasn't she was a phased or upset about any
of it. She was actually intrigued by him because she
knew who he was. So she was intrigued. So she
(50:10):
was like, she was an adventurous girl and she like
the adventure. So the next thing we knew, he spent
the night there, and because her boyfriend lived there, Bobby Hart,
who was who made the monkey, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Bobby boys that was I mean, Bobby Hart, that was
her boyfriend man. And so anyway, so the next day
(50:33):
she comes, she goes, listen to donning. I fixed it
I wish. I asked Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner could
borrow their apartment for about two months and there and
there in Europe. So they said yes. So it had
like a two bedroom apartment and uh conda. So we
went there and we stayed there for about a month
(50:57):
and a half something like that, all three of you,
or just you and David, No, all three of us.
She had her own her own room and we had ours. Yeah,
and you know, that still didn't save us, because he
was going through still his mental things about what had
happened to him. Plus he was, you know, there was
(51:18):
you know, he was being plagued by all these um people,
Alistair Crawley people and people that he was feeling like things,
you know, accult things are going on and all that
other stuff that kind of in that vibe by that time. Yeah,
it seemed like he was dealing with a lot of
personal demons at that time. Yeah. Yeah, and I and
(51:41):
I was, and we had you know, we it was
like I knew to myself, I said, well, this is
probably it, because I could see that he was still
very much affected by this what was going on, and
it was it was super emotional to him. So you know,
(52:02):
that was one of the last times we sawed each other.
We started each other couple more times, and he advinted
Marilyn and Rose House and he invited me there. Oh wow,
what what was that like at Maryland's house? It was?
It was it was beautiful. It was kind of creepy
because I was like, is this Maryland's house something? Really?
(52:22):
I mean it was a beautiful house, so at nice
pool and everything. And so I think we were I
think we were good until Claudia decided she was like
dating Ronnie Wood and they invited her. They invited us
to man talk when they were doing the Steal Drums
(52:44):
tour rehearsing. So she asked me if I wanted to go,
and I and I said yes because Ronnie said bring Ava.
So because Ronnie was a friend of ours and David
used to were allays staying out together. So we got there,
and you know, Mick and I and and David had
(53:04):
all hung out together before, so Mick knew me real well, right,
and and we we got there and so apparently Mick
had gotten into an accident. He fell through a glass
and and cut his arms, so he had his arm
in a sling and so we were all they were rehearsing,
and so it was all laughing and having a good time.
(53:25):
And now El said, Nick walked in and he saw
me and he was like, oh wow, ab able do it,
And so he was making a lot study short. At
the end of the night, I ended up hanging out
with Mick because I knew Mick like that, you know,
And so in my group of Claudia and she was saying, Weroni.
(53:46):
And but some kind of way, David heard about it,
and I think that was the last straw that was
That was the thing that made him, that made us
break up, because even though I've never done anything there,
I mean, never ever done any um betrayed him with
any other man, you know when we were together. I
(54:09):
think it was when because things were so sensitive, and
my thing about Mick was that he was a friend
and I needed somebody to reach out to that new
David jame Stone I saying, yeah, I needed I needed, Yes,
I needed that emotional that we had all hung out
together and laughed and had a good time and I
(54:29):
felt comfortable with being around Mick. But you know, David
didn't see it like that. So you know, when I
tried to call him. I tried call him and I
called me a man. I said, can you please as
David to call me? And so one of the girls said,
he's he's mad at you, And I said, what because
(54:49):
because he heard you up in line talk with with
Mick with the Stones. And I said, oh, And there
was really nothing I could say because it was what
it was. And but I still loved him. The only
reason that I reached out to, you know, is because
(55:12):
I we were all friends and he was such a
cool guy. But I also just felt emotionally kind of
good with him, you know what I'm saying, And so um,
and I was just desperate to be around anybody that
we were together, that we have been together with somebody,
and and and so you know, I guess I didn't
(55:36):
really realize that, you know, that he would be jealous,
that you know of that, And but I guess I
guess that's that's a feather in my cap that he
would be because a lot of men might not have
been you know what I'm saying. I guess I guess
I guess I must have missed something. So, you know,
but like I said, I still I still carried on
(55:56):
loving him for such a long time after that. Do
you remember the last time you were in touch with David,
either in person or on the phone. Oh no, A
long time, long long. By the time I tried to
(56:19):
reach out to him, like, uh, he was already and
he has already been diagnosed with cancer. I think it
was in chemo he was. They weren't letting him, giving
him his emails or sending him his emails or whatever. Um,
I just I just the last time I saw him
was when he and Aman got engaged, an Iman, who
(56:43):
I knew before they were together, but I didn't know
that they were dating each other. And I don't know
even if they were dating each other during that time.
It was just just it just so happened that, you know, um,
we were a friend of mine had invited me to
their engagement party, and so I was, you know, I
got all dressed up, and I think I looked fabulous,
(57:05):
and of course she looked fabulous, she always does. And
she walks over to me and she says, Aba, look
at the engagement ring Dave David gave me. So I said,
I said that that's really wonderful. Eman. I hope you
too will be very happy. And I mean I didn't see.
(57:27):
I wish that they would be happy, but I felt
hurt inside. I did. I actually admit I felt. Wow.
You know it was I mean, it was it was time.
I mean it was it was. It was a while
after me that he started dating her. And I guess
this in my heart, I never I didn't think he
was gonna be with another black girl. That's all I'm saying.
(57:51):
But you know, then then then the then the Billboard
came out with an article that said, before there was Iman,
there was Ava Cherry. And that's right, because Emon always
says that she knows David Jones. I didn't really know
David Jones. I knew David Bowie really yeah, I mean
I didn't David Jones. She he showed his David Jones
(58:13):
side when he stopped doing drugs and everything and that,
but he I saw David Bowie. I mean, I was
there with you know, some of the most prolific stuff,
early prolifics, prolifics stuff. But I just you know, but
I mean, you know, I understand that people can you know,
I believe he loves me. I certainly loved him, and
(58:34):
I believe he loved me he showed me, and whenever
we took pictures together, he always looked at me as
though he loved me in the ways that he treated me.
But you know, you could love him more than one
person in a lifetime, and he found someone else that
he loved dearly and deeply and I and I was
glad that he did. I was glad. I was glad
that those times of you know, the drug stuff and
(58:57):
in the emotional feelings about things going on with gone,
and that he found someone that you could feel, you know,
you know, calm with and and and and love and
love him back. I never saw it as something, you know,
and any kind of of frond to me. I saw
it as that that phase that was with him, he
(59:21):
loved me, and then he went into another phase. And
that's and I mean, I've loved I've loved more than
one person something him. So I'm just saying that that's
what happens, you know, And I was glad that he was,
you know, well and happy and and all of that.
(59:41):
Is there one memory for you that's sort of like
a snapshot that for you encapsulates your time together. One
that's that's really one of your favorite moments together. I
would I would have to say when I first met
him that night in the club, and and and and
in Doville, because we were like it was in Doville.
(01:00:02):
It was like being in this incredible castle with and
just it was all about love and being together and
being warm and then doing the music too. But it
was it felt so right. I would have to say,
do Ville was one of the most beautiful times in
my life. And you keep them alive in your music.
(01:00:25):
You recently released an amazing cover of of Let's Dance,
and you've covered a few of his songs too, an
Age Daydream in life on Mars. Uh, what are you
working on now? I know you have an album do
out soon. Well, now, I just you know, during the summer,
I had a song out called Testified Love. That's that's
that's out there, which I think is a great song,
(01:00:47):
and and I wrote it and and produced it and
and uh in my Soul came like about a couple
of months ago. Uh. And right now we're working on
a film about my life with him. So we were
we you know, the COVID is slowed down. We were
gonna start shooting in last March, but then the COVID
(01:01:10):
slowed everything down. So we're still working on that, and
it's gonna be brilliant. I'm just I mean, it's gonna
be it's just gonna be good. It's gonna be the truth.
It's gonna be to something like a fairy tale, because
it certainly was to me. I I never knew anybody
that had those experiences like I did. I felt like
(01:01:30):
a princess. I did the Black Princess, and you know,
they and you know, my fans. He started them calling
me black Barbararella because when that we did the nineteen
eight floor, so they had me wearing these real futuristic
outfits and so I was like, Jane, Yeah, so they
called me black, but I have a fan club. They
had my fan club black Barbara, and so he would
(01:01:53):
call me black Barbaralla. He would go, okay, he was
the clever girl, black Barbararella. I just thought. But that
was his favorite thing with me, who's the clever girl?
If I would do something because I was always trying
to do things and would make him say, wow, you
do that, or and whenever I do something amazing, who's
(01:02:14):
the clever girl, Black Barbarella. You mentioned learning a lot
from David. What do you think he learned from you?
What was your impact on me? Think? You know, I
contributed a lot to this fop culture, and I think
that also what I contributed to David was his his
(01:02:36):
making him feel less vulnerable to people, because we would
sometimes get out of limousine and people kids with Russell
go hey even and he would he would he would like,
he would like, you know, jump back like he was,
you know, maybe be afraid. And I said, daven don't
be afraid. These your fans, they love you, they love you.
And he started seeing that when people would come up
(01:02:57):
to him, he wouldn't he wouldn't recoil. He would and
even said that to me, you make me feel good
when I'm around other people. And you know, I just
think that that's what he saw in me. He saw
that I was a good person. I was. I didn't
have a mean bone in my body. I've run into
people that I've talked to new over the years and
(01:03:17):
I said, what was I like? Because I can't remember
his thing? He said, Eva, And I mean, I'm not
stroking myself. You were so sweet and so nice. You
never really mean to anybody. You were always anybody that
you know want to speak to David or talk to
you know, you were always just sweet and I and
(01:03:38):
that made me feel good because I never thought I
was a bit of any kind, and I never tried
to be, you know, I never did. I felt lots
of daggers in my back blow a lot, you know,
from a lot of people that didn't want me around
because they thought I had too much influence over Davia,
you know, and that that bothered me because I never
(01:04:00):
tried to make any enemies or anything that but it
was just the nature of the beast that being around
someone like David, who everybody wants and everybody wanted to
be around, and everybody wanted to sleep with, everybody wanted
to work with, everybody, you know, not baggage just must
have been so tough to deal with when you just
you just wanted it to be you two, and sometimes
(01:04:20):
I'm sure you wanted to just go and walk down
the banks of the Saint or go to have a
dinner together at a restaurant and not in the back room,
and just be like normal, a normal couple in love. Yes,
and we were, and we had those opportunities to do
just that, you know, because a lot of the the musicians.
You know, they weren't really on the social you know David.
(01:04:42):
David loved and respected all his musicians, but you know,
his private life he kept pretty private. And it wasn't
about you know, having you know, dinner with the whole
band or anything like that or whatever. Like I mean,
you know, he did it, but he did not. It
was not if he was with someone that he wanted
to be with, like a woman or whatever. No, that
(01:05:05):
it was more you know, he could do things, but
he wanted to be with that person that he was with. Um.
But like I said, he taught me so so many
things about just you know, how to just how to
how to to be in the rock world and just
and flourished and be okay and be and and you know,
(01:05:29):
my mom is always staying to me, if you died tomorrow,
you've done more than a whole lot, You've done their
whole lifetime. And like, yeah, yeah, I guess maybe that
could be true, and maybe that could be true. That
could be true. Off the Record is a production of
I Heart Radio. If you liked what you heard, please
(01:05:49):
subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.
I'm your host Jordan Runtug, Thanks so much for listening.
In our latest chapter, David Bowie went from starman to
soul man, trading high concept sci fi tales for the
sounds that enthralled them as a boy, rhythm and blues.
(00:22):
From the moment he first heard Tutti Fruity back in
the fifties, he'd wanted to be Little Richard. Somewhere along
the line, his gold shifted. But when he arrived in
America in the spring of fo to mount his budget
busting Diamond Dogs Tour, he began to reconnect with the
music that had inspired him so long ago. This current
tour was an overblown spectacle, weighed down with rigid choreography,
(00:44):
strict music cues, and huge sets, not to mention the
dark dystopian narrative. Impressive, yes, but all the theatricality didn't
leave a lot of room for genuine emotion. A little
David's heart and soul, or in this case, billy soul.
David's renewed love of R and B was stoked by
his new girlfriend at the time, a striking young model
(01:05):
and burgeoning singer named Ava Cherry. They had met at
an after party for a Stevie Wonder concert in early
nineteen seventy three and quickly hit it off. As she
would later say, the romance had all the hallmarks of
a fairy tale strolls in Paris, knights and an elegant castle,
fancy dinners, cheering crowds, celebrity friends, and lots of great songs.
(01:26):
Sounds almost like a Disney movie, except for the fact
that David was still technically married to his wife Banjie.
That parts a little different. David fostered Ava's budding musical talent,
recording her as part of a soul trio he'd assembled
called the Astronets. The group was short lived, but the
sessions are well worth checking out. In return, Ava acted
(01:47):
as Bowie's guide for the American R and B scene.
Her father had been a musician, and she regaled David
with tales of life on the Black Blue circuit in
nineteen forties Chicago. She also fulfilled his lifelong dream by
bringing him up to Harlem's Apollo Theater to see some
of the hottest R and B acts in the country.
As we all know, David's reignited passion for soul led
(02:09):
him to Philadelphia to cut the relentlessly Funky Young Americans.
The album featured Avid Cherry on backup vocals alongside Robin
Clark and a young Luther vandros Ava also joined him
on stage as part of the so called Philly Dogs
tour in late nineteen seventy four, but she also shared
his private life as a girlfriend, loving a side of
David that few would ever get to see. Their relationship
(02:32):
wouldn't endure, but she continues to honor David and her music.
Last January, she released a funked up version of Bowie's
three hit Let's Dance, and this year she joined the
Star Started virtual tribute concert, belting out ferocious versions of
Young Americans and Fame, just as she did on the
original recordings. In addition to recording a new album of
(02:53):
original songs, she's also working on a film about her
life with Bowie, which is slated to resume filming this summer.
If of It nineteen allows if I spoke to me
about her time with David and the memories of music
that they shared during those golden years in the mid seventies.
I supposed to start take me back to the night
(03:14):
you met David Well, I mean, okay, here it is.
You know, I just moved to New York. And the
funny thing is that I was I was I was
getting a guy who owned a hair salon and I
was modeling and I, you know, I never lived in
New York before. I was just getting myself together. And
my and my friend who owned the UM hair san said,
(03:38):
listen for the New York New York Times New York
Daily News, would you um, would you mind reaching if
we reached your hair blond and short? And uh, I
was like no, you know, I was game. You know.
They said we need, we need to bleach your hair
really like platinum blond and like a short afro. And
(03:59):
I said okay. So I did it, and I was
in the in the paper, in the in UM New
York Times, and so a lot of people saw that
and whatever, and then I got an agent and all
this other stuff. So one day my agent comes to
me and he has this album and he goes, ab listen,
there's this guy named David Bowie and this is his
(04:21):
new record. He's British, and he said he's gonna be
here soon performing a radio city, and you know, I
just thought you might, you know, like to, you know,
listen to his record. Now. I don't know how he
got because David wasn't well known here yet, and he's
at that he was pretty well known and um in Europe.
(04:43):
So I took to I said, okay, I took the
record home and I listened to it, and I mean
I looked at it the album cover, and I said
to myself, wow, he's really he's a good looking guy,
you know, and and I liked it. He's kind of
strange and he's kind of friend, you know, and something.
I put it on and I listened to start listening
(05:04):
to the tracks, and I was just blown away. I
was just blown away. It was so different. It was
so different. Moon Next Daydream was my favorite on the
album with David asked me when he first met me,
which one I liked the best. But I was also,
you know, friends with Stevie Wonder at well, I hadn't,
(05:27):
I hadn't met David yet, but I was friends with
Stevie Wonder and he was in New York doing his
show at Carnegie Hall. And so he said, well, you
know we're gonna do this show, we need a place
to give a party after it. And I was working
in this club called Genesis that uh the guy that
owned the was was the actually steakhouse, Rocky Ioke. He
(05:51):
owned the Benny Hannas of Tokyo. I don't know if
you ever remember those, Yeah, remember Rocky Rocky Ioke was
the guy's name. And he owned also a club called
Genesis on the East Side. And I worked as a
as a cock stow waitress in there. And so I
said to Stevie, I said, well, I work in this
(06:13):
club called Genesis. I'm sure that let's you give a
party in there. It's a nice place to give a party.
So they got ahold of the people and the next
thing we knew the party was gonna be a Genesis,
So nither party. I show up and you know, I'm dressed,
I'm looking fabulous because it was This was right after uh,
Stevie's concert and he didn't incredible incredible standing ovation concert
(06:36):
at Carnegie Hall. And so I walk in. As I'm
walking in, Steve is standing at the door. And Steve
has just stev wonder as an incredible thing that he
could sometimes know who's there even when he doesn't see them,
you know, I'm saying, and if I was walking to us,
he goes with, maybe you smell my perfume. I don't know,
(06:58):
he said. He said, is that a Charry? I? How
do you know it was me? He goes, I know,
I know, right, So started off the night really good.
Everybody was in a great movie because, as I said,
his concert was stellar. I mean, he just sanging his
heart out, you know, that night, and he got a
stand in ovation. And so you know, we're downstairs and
(07:21):
everybody's been invited gladys and I think of reading money
even there just a lot of more soul artists you
know that, you know, but some big names. So I'm
standing there. They start singing. So a song comes on
and everybody in the rooms just start singing in the room,
whatever the song was. You know, all the great singers
(07:42):
are standing there singing like you know, I wasn't really
a professional singer yet or anything like that, but I
was standing there with them, right, And so everybody's singing
and my men and my agent comes up to me, goes,
you're nothing to believe who's here? I'm like, who's that guy?
David Bowie. What because right this time I played that
(08:04):
record about a hundred times and I was like already smitten.
I was in love and he just was just listening
to the music and looking at the picture just because
it was so different and it was so well done.
I was like, oh my god. He goes, I'm gonna
go get him and introduced to I was like, oh
my god. I was like freaking out cut of inside,
(08:25):
you know, because he brings him over and David's wearing
this like a lectric blue suit and he has his
hair is really high, it's real ziggy, and he was
red really and so he walks up to me because
he was this is David Bowie, David, this is Avid Sherry.
David says to me, it was a pleasure to meet you, Ava,
and it just I was like, oh my god. And
(08:48):
he goes, I love your hair, and I said, I
love your soup. So you know, we both had this
hair colored thing in common and that I was kind
of weird and the black thick with you know, blond
blond everro and so anyway, we start talking and and
and oh and then they was singing and I was
kind of singing in between well started, he goes, you're
(09:10):
a singer, and so I said, well, yeah, you know,
I mean I wasn't a professional yet, but I wasn't
gonna say no. I mean, any anything I think I
can do, I'm gonna say yes until you proved me
that I can't do it. Okay, then then I'll be
you know, then I can't do it if I can't.
But anyway, so we were just you know, then we
started talking and he was like, well, you know, I've
(09:33):
just done my my first album for America and I'm
playing video see this weekend. You know, I'm planning a
a tour, a world tour, and I'm gonna be in Japan,
and I'm thinking maybe you might be good for this,
this this part to do this, he said, you know
the look and everything like that. Now, if you can sing,
(09:54):
that's really great, you know, and you know you already
be saying a little bit, but he said, you you'll
have I said, okay, if you want me to, and
I said, he said, I'll have to introduce you to
my manager, Tony Freeze. And you know, we had rehearsal
tomorrow at our ci A. Can you make the rehearsal
and do an audition and I said, yeah. So the
next day, I mean our our Cia and the Spiders
(10:18):
were there. That's the first time I met them. Actually,
I didn't really hang out with them too much when
I first met David. I there was a couple of times,
like when we did the nineteen eight four show and
all others where I really worked in in Earl's Court
and all that, but basically I was I was in
the same room with the Spiders. It was great, you know,
so anyway you got God was days. I don't know
(10:38):
was Storme we did. I sang the manager her and
he goes, yeah, I think she were great for this part. Right.
So the next thing I knew, David said to me, okay, listen,
you know you're gonna have to um what we had
dinner and you know all the other niceties. And of
course I was just just fall I was smitten, is
(11:00):
all I can tell you. I was submitting. Ah. It
was so nice because after we did the audition, he said, well,
would you have dinner with me tonight? And I was like,
and he said, we'll go see a show or something.
Go and go see a life performance. I think Charlie
Mingus was with him. Yeah yeah, and I said yeah.
(11:23):
So like got all dressed up and I met him
at hotel and he was dressing I was a gentleman,
he opened the door, he was he was just he
was just the best. And so we had the most
wonderful dinner, and then we went to see Charlie Mingus
and like, I really wasn't into Charlie Mingus because I didn't.
He was kind of abstract for me. But David was
(11:44):
really into it, and you know, I got into it.
I just because I love all music. But I just
really wasn't familiar with Charlie Mingus when he was telling
me about him. So when we we we saw that show,
and so he says, um, well you want to come back,
and he the Champagne's Hotel and I'm like, yeah, why not.
(12:06):
Why not. I'm having a glass, I'm having a good time.
So he was like, well, which song did you like
the best on on that album? And I said, oh,
moon Age day Dream. I love it. I fell in
love with it. I'm so in love with that song.
He goes, Okay, that's great, you know, And so anyway,
you know, I spent the night there. Of course I
spent the night there where else was I gonna go?
(12:29):
I mean, just wasn't anything better than that to do.
And we had the most wonderful romantic evening and that
was how it began. That is a beautiful first day,
that is that is a first date for the books.
It really. But there was a problem. The tour never
(12:50):
came together. What happened there? The tour that he was
telling me how that they wanted me to do got
canceled because he got sick. He got the food and
and they said, oh, so what happened was is I
I He told me he was gonna call me. I
have to fill this in. And he said, I'm gonna
send you the records that you're that you're gonna learn,
(13:10):
I tell you your ticket and everything that. So um uh,
you know, we can get everything going. So I said, oh, yeah, okay,
Well I have to go to Chicago and say by
to my parents before I go to Europe or anything.
So I quit my job in New York. I I
got rid of my apartment. I had everything set up,
(13:31):
and I was doing fine, you know, and and and
I had the job of Genesis, and then I was
modeling and singing too whatever and then uh, I get
home after doing all of that, and three days after
I was here in Chicago, I get a telegram saying, EVA,
so sorry, David became ill and we have to cancel
(13:53):
the tour. I was like, oh my god, oh no, no,
my whole life here. I am back in Chicago and
I had my life on the right track. You know,
how was that? So? I was? I was so depressed
for a couple of days. I was trying to figure
out what to do. And I had remembered that this
(14:13):
guy that was from from Germany, he had a place
in the south of France and Monaco, and he had
asked me if I wanted to spend the summer hanging
out in Monaco. Now, I didn't really want to be
with him, so when he sol when he asked me,
I told him no. But when this happened that they
(14:37):
sent me that telegram, I called him up and I
told him yes because I just saw that it was
my only way to get to Europe. I didn't really
have the money to go, and it was my only
way to get you know. I heard that he you know,
David spent time in France and in London, and whether
he was in Francis, So I said yes, and so anyway,
(15:00):
he sent me the ticket and the next thing I knew,
and I've never been a year before, I was in
Marco and I was like, that's the most beautiful, funny
place in the world. What the hell are like? Three
years so great? I mean, I was loving it, he was.
It was really beautiful. And of course he was rich,
this guy, so he was chased being very nice. But
I didn't like him like that, you know, I didn't
(15:22):
feel romantic, and he was really wanting to be romantic. God,
I it's nothing worse than a guy. Was we romantic?
But you were You don't want to be romantic with him?
So so, but but he was a nice person. I
didn't want to I wasn't trying to be mean, but
I did see him as a means to an end
(15:42):
and I'm being honest. Um. Anyway, So I was there
for a little while and he had a friend, another
girl that you know, and it was older and she
apparently was wealthy to him. Her grandmother given her another
art uh in the south of France, you know, you know,
(16:03):
they all hang out together. This was his I suppose
maybe was somebody who might have been married to or
whatever before or whatever, and they were still friends anyway.
To make them a story short, I was starting to
all I could think of was David, you know, and
how I just wanted to find him. And and so
she she she called me up one day and she said, Eva, listen,
(16:25):
I am seeing that you are not liking Hines, like
you are not really loving to be with Hines. And
I was like, well, I wan don't mean to be
anything me I did. I just I just I just
want to go to France with something, you know. So
she goes, would you feel better if you did not
(16:46):
stay here in the party with him? And and and
I she said, my grandmother left me an apartment and
you could stay there if you wanted to, for the
rest of your time here. And I said okay, So
she moved me over there. So I was there one
day and I had met this little nice guy and
he was having tea with me. Right he comes to
the guy that invited me comes to the door and
(17:10):
I opened it and this guy isn't there. But we
were doing anything even We're just talking, okay. So he goes, Okay,
I can't see that you don't, you know. He wants
to be with me, and you want to be with
somebody else, so you want to go to Paris. I said, well,
I would like to go to Paris. He said, okay.
I said, but I need you to give me a
(17:31):
thousand francs so because you know, so I can you know,
He said, no, I give you the money, just uh
And I said, well where do I go? He goes,
you go to to get try to find a hotel
in the near the Budleavard Saints your Man and and
and then you know, try to go to the the
(17:53):
cafe the floor and that's where all the celebrities hang out.
That's where everybody hangs out. Here is anybody. So that's
what I did. I got, I gave me the money.
I took the train and I got in and I
checked into this this like all girls, all women's hotel,
which was right like about five blocks away from the
(18:16):
boulevards cent Germain, and it was it was nine. He
was cleaning and so that was it. And then you know,
after about eight months, I started getting kind of because
you know, I would be hearing that David was had
come to Paris. Some different people are reading it in
the music papers or something, but I never you know,
you know, it was like maybe one time I read that.
(18:37):
And so one day I'm in this bar and I
hear them speaking in French, and I hear them saying, oh,
David Bowie. H David Bowie es. So when I heard
his name, I've been running down, said excusion one two
idea David Bowie. And he said, we I shake a step.
(19:00):
So he's across the speed. It's Castell. I'm like I really,
I'm like really, he goes, wait. So I'm like, I
look cute. I look pretty. But I was not dressed
as Castel because it was a very you know, pearls
and diamonds kind of a club. I don't care. I
just went running across the street. And he had like
(19:21):
a stairwell that was spiral down, and I went inside
and I was looking down from a stairwell, looking around.
And so David's bodyguards Stewie saw me and he comes
and he goes, have why are you doing here? I said,
I came to find David. He can't just do me
(19:42):
like that. I mean we had such a wonderful time
and and and and I just I quit my job.
But I was saying right. He goes, oh my god,
the governor is going to freak out race these you
called him the governor, the governor, the governor right, And
he was really caught me. It was like that he
was a gardenist, gup when he sees you, mate, you
(20:02):
know that anyway, So he so David was sitting talking
to this woman that was dripping in diamonds and pearls. Right,
he was talking to her, and so he has my hand.
He pulls me up to in front of David. David
looking at her and all said. He turns it. He
sees me. He goes, Eva, what are you doing here?
(20:23):
And I was like, I came to find you. I
came to find you. I didn't want you to leave me.
I was, I quit my job and went home. And
then you said he was canceled, and he was like,
oh wow. He says, I'm really sorry. I got ill.
He said, but you came over You came all the
way over here just to find me. And I was
(20:44):
like yes. He was like, oh wow. So he was
talking to her and then to see he sit sit down,
I said, now. And the next thing, now he says
something there and then he goes let's go. And that
was it. And we walked out and got a limousine,
even went to Doeville, which we had the most ro
magic evening was soon. Doeville is the studio where he
(21:06):
was recording pin ups built in a in a former castle.
He took me to a literal castle, I mean, the
fairy tale continues. Oh my god, Oh my god. It
was a castle that because I've never been in a
seventeenth century castle like that before. You know, you just
go on to England and go to and it was
it had like you know, fireplaces that were as big
(21:27):
as a wall, you know, like that, you know, and
they had made it into a recording studio and we
spent like a week there. It was heaven. Wow, that
was That was how it began. Now what were you do?
What did you do when he when he wasn't busy
sort of attending to the business of being David Bowie
(21:49):
touring and recording and all that. Well, what did you
like to do together? What would how would you like
to spend a day or a night out in the
town together? What would you love to do together? Oh? Well,
we used to we would go and have dinner and
we walked by the sin and we would you know,
we'd go see other artists perform, you know, like you know, uh,
Brian Ferry. He and Brian Ferry were good friends too,
(22:10):
and you know, um they were great. We'd go, you know,
whoever would be performing. But basically he just liked to,
you know, do because that that wasn't doing a drug
time for David, he wasn't he wasn't doing drugs when
I met him. He would smoke a little hash or
something and drink red wine. So he was always he
(22:31):
was so different. He was like so warm, you know,
because he wasn't doing those things. And this is like,
you know, the first year that I knew him, he
wasn't doing drugs, so so I know and so and
then of course he loves to make love and that
was that was a favorite of ours. Yeah, no, at
(22:59):
what point did you did you know that that Andree
was also in the picture? Well too, three I knew
it early when I didn't because you let me finish
the story about when we were in the hotel and
the next morning, I was like when we first met
him in New York, and I was so excited and
I felt like, wow, I feel like I'm in love
(23:21):
and I don't know, I've never really felt like this before.
I mean, I really was serious what I said. I
I hadn't because he was so different. And so we're
lying there and all of a sudden the phone rings
and he answers it, and he said he look and
he said okay, okay, So he must have said Angie
was downstairs and send her up. So the door knocks,
(23:43):
he goes and answers, doing his Angie. He opens the door,
and I have a role his role on and so
Andie was said, i'd seen you, darling, and he goes, Angie,
this is able, cheery. Hello. She kisses me and hugs me.
This is you know. I just I just I have
to go back to London tomorrow night. And so I
(24:05):
just wanted to stop and say something to before before
I went, I'm seeing here like what I'm like. So
I didn't say much because I didn't know what to say.
This is different. Yeah. So then she goes, okay, I
have to go now, I have to go now. She
(24:25):
was only there like fifteen minutes, maybe in fifteen minutes,
but she was real nice to me and she leaves.
So I didn't know how I was gonna say it
to him. I said, so, David, why didn't you tell
me you were married? I said, all right, I don't
know if I would have been here right now if
I if i'd known that, And so he said, he says, oh, no,
(24:49):
we have an open marriage. She has a girlfriend and something,
she has a boyfriend and you know, and she does
what she wants and I do it. I'm like, really,
are you serious? He goes, yeah, It's been that way
for a couple of years. So by that time I
was already hooked. I was already submitting there was nothing
I could do. But how it felt, I wasn't gonna
(25:11):
let him go. Listen, Jordan's I didn't know. You know,
you're a man. But I'm telling you I wasn't gonna
let him go. I said, well, honey, if he says,
and she's fine with you know me, you know, being
(25:31):
with you, And I said, well, she may not be
to myself, I said, you may not'll be fine. After
I finished here, but I wanted to ask you about
(25:51):
the recording sessions you did with David for the astron Nets.
What was he like working with in the studio? Like
I imagine he must have been a real perfectionist. Oh
he was, but but but he was, you know, he
was a perfectionist. But he was just kind of already
know what he really wanted. So he he made it
feel comfortable. He made it feel fun, is what I'm saying.
(26:13):
He wouldn't it never felt like Oh god, according with
this guy was like it was fun. I had a
boff and you know he would uh you know, no,
just I mean that's basically it. I mean every anything
we worked on, like, you know, we worked on the Asternists,
which were all which were meant to be only demos
(26:34):
because we hadn't finished them, and he told me we
were going to finish them. But then he had this
thing with Tony the Freeze, with the whole thing about
the money, and so he had to stop producing me
and and and it never got finished and Tony went
a hit and released it with just demos. Oh I see,
what is there a lesson from him that that that
(26:56):
you learned from him during these sessions that sort of
sticks with you this to this day. What's something that
that he taught you? Musically? Oh my god, he taught
me a lot of things, not just musically, but and
me taught me to appreciate you know, a lot of things,
you know, classical music, all music. I mean, I I
(27:16):
love clastomer music now because I started out with Vivaldi,
with him and and and and in films, German expressionism
and Andy Warhol and I mean, he taught me a
lot of things. I was. I was a savvy, street
smart young lady, but he you know, I wasn't. I
wasn't an intellectual, but now I am. And so he
(27:41):
taught me. You know, he taught me how to you know,
work the stage and the lights. You know, when we
were on stage together, he go, Okay, I want you
to to come. I want you to go to the stairs.
I want you to be at the top and the
spot's gonna be on you, and I want you to
slowly come down the stairs and then I want you
to start to sing blah blah blah. So he just
taught He was my mentor, you know, he taught me.
(28:03):
You know, it wasn't just a love relationship, which which
I mean, I I did love him. He's the He's
the first man I really loved like that. And um,
but he just taught me, you know, how to how
to handle my stuff like one one time. I remember
we were at an Andy Warhol party and and they
(28:25):
were drinking, you know, great champagne. I love champagne. And
so I was drinking and I was getting a little
bit drunk. I had learned how to drink it to
a point where I didn't feel drunk yet, but I
got a little drunk. And so was the other side
of the room and David. I was talking to somebody
and then I wasn't talking to me. David walks over
to me and he goes, Ava, so listen you you're
(28:51):
a little bit of drawn card ship. And I said, oh,
I guess I am. He goes, okay, but you know
when the press is looking at you and it's can
your pictures? So do you want to be in the
in the magazine or the paper tomorrow, you know, looking drunk?
And I said no. He goes, well, well I just
(29:13):
told you, and you with me, and as I immediately
stopped and it never happened again because I just I
didn't realize that that the that the press was taking
my pictures all the time. If I was near him,
you know what I'm saying. That must have just been
the energy shift of walking into a room together. That
(29:34):
must have been strange to be on the receiving end
of all those flashbulbs and all that. I mean the
first it was At first it was kind of strange,
but then I got used to it. No, but I'm
just saying I didn't he but he was being so
honest with me. He wasn't angry with me because I
was done. He was just saying, don't do it outside
(29:57):
of the house because people to take your picture and
try to make you look bad, you know. And so
I appreciated that he did that. He told me that
it was. It was and and and when from then
on him, whenever we would go out nothing, I would
just be you know. So yeah, it was just I
(30:17):
just he taught me so many things, Jordan, I can't
even just say one, but the music, you know, and
we appreciate. He loved soul music, which is why we
ended up with the other Americans. And he was like,
I want to do a soul record. I love Marvin
Gaye and Rita Franklin and Michael Jackson. And he says,
you know, and that was when we started talking about
(30:38):
doing a solo album. What was it like going up
to the Apollo together and seeing the main ingredient in
the spinners. I mean, that must have been incredible. He
must have flipped. Well, he because I've seen all those
people before. But I'm saying yeah, because I said to him,
he goes, well, where do we go? And so we
got to go to Apollo, which is where all the
great groups performed. And he said, okay, well I gotta
(31:00):
find some people. So somebody attached him to Carlos and
and and because Calls was with the main ingredient and
and so he sent me on to New York. And
then he came like two weeks later, and then we
we went to the Apollo. We drove up to the
Apollo in the limousine and you know that he had
(31:21):
on a red suit with the red hair and I had.
We drove up and all these black people were standing
on the corn and they go, who's that. I said,
that's David Bowie. He said, David Bowie. I said, David Bowie.
He's like, oh, okay, okay, you guys have fun. It
was it was just some funny. You know. They no
(31:43):
black people did not know David until I started being
with him. And you know that they really didn't. They
didn't appreciate him until afterwards. Okay, that we did, Young Americans.
And so then we went in and we were watchingly.
Was Richard Pryor too, was on that bill, The Spinners,
the the Temptations, the main ingredient. And David just enjoyed
(32:09):
that show so much. He enjoyed it so much, he
was like wow. So then he had already uh, somebody
had put him in touch with with with Carlos, I guess.
And so that was what happened. And the next thing
we knew, Um, David had already decided where we were
gonna record, which was a Sigma Sound, and that was
(32:30):
where they bought Luther to the studio, and that's where
he met Luca van Dross. Oh well, I mean all
those incredible Philly soul records coming from Sigma Sound, I
mean that, what were those sessions like with Luther Van
Dress and Robin Clark and Carlos Alamar, What were those
those sessions like? Those must have been fun? Well? Yeah,
they were hard work, though hard work, you know, we
(32:53):
we I mean and even though we did have fun
doing it. I mean I had I had fun because
I was with David. I mean I was after, but
but it was when when we were in the studio,
it was hard when David didn't David was about getting
the work done, so he wasn't about playing around. We
were in there and we were all working real hard,
(33:13):
especially on that song, right, that was the hardest song
in the world to do Lord and Mercenes. He was sorry,
but it was. It was. It was a great experience.
And the funny thing about the Philly sound people is
that he had asked those guys to all play on
the record and they didn't do it because I think
they were kind of scared about him being a white
(33:34):
artist and they had always been, um, you know, black
artists that they had some stuff with. So he's so
but they didn't mind when they said no. He just
got his own band together, you know, he was just here,
very independent. Your father was also a musician, and it
sounds like David got a lot of sort of style
(33:55):
tips from your dad. Like how did they get along? Oh?
My dad was like, you know, the coolest dude. He
was like, they got along like a house on fire.
Please believe me, I I M I. He came to
my house, my parents house, and uh for dinner and
(34:18):
he saw my dad's I was showing him, like, this
is where my dad was in a in he opened.
He was with a band called Benny Laysam Band and
they opened for like Comvasie and some other people wherever
and and and um. They wore these zooe suits in
the in the in the band stand, and so I said,
(34:39):
this is my dad's zoos suits. And but if he
was like what, so, then I think he tried to
jack it on and it looked really cool on him.
So he had Freddie to knock off suits that were
similar to that guster look. And that's where the word
guster came from from me. I'm the one that told
him about the Gowsters in Chicago. They all wore baggy
pants and they all were big, you know suits, suits
(35:02):
kind of close. And what does the word mean. It's
basically like cool dude, Yeah, gowster, you know instead of gangster.
I never made that connection. Yeah yeah, so, but I
mean they made everybody keeps trying to say talk about
that word. He only knew it about that word because
of me. I mean, nobody nobody else knews. And he
(35:27):
started changing making songs and you know, the gowster and
all that and I was like, okay, whatever, and all
the clothes you know that that outfit with you know,
the flight suit that was my flight suit, and the
shoes he had on. The shoes too, I didn't know
the shoes too. He could wear my he could wear
(35:48):
my shoes, could leave it. I got a big seat, though,
I gotta I wear like nine. But anyway, so yeah,
I mean, you know, he really dug my dad, and
my dad dug him. That was a musician, so he
was totally into the mentality. You know, one of my
great heroes is John Lennon. Tell me about being at
(36:09):
the Electric Lady Studios sessions for for Fame and across
the universe. I've been that. That was so incredible because
you know in the you know, in the museum pieces
that you remember David, David Bowie is in all the
countries that it was in and everything like that. Oh,
(36:29):
the exhibitions, Yeah, yeah, right, I represented here in Chicago.
I didn't know it myself, but in some of the
plastic cases that they had David's artifacts in, David had
his diary and there was this one page and my
friends said, didn't you see didn't you see this about you?
And I'm like, what there was maybe two things and
that he wrote down about me and his diary. But
(36:51):
he said, today I introduced Ava to a beatle. Today.
What I say, I couldn't believe it. It was just
one page. Then they took it out and they put
it in the in the click case, and he said,
today I introduced Ava to a beatle, and we're going
to do We're gonna work on a song called Fame.
(37:13):
And that was that was how I'm sorry. Wow, David
doesn't strike me as somebody who's easily star struck, but
I imagine that it's hard not to be around with
John Lennon. Oh no, no, so then, but we were
in Alexi, late Land, waiting for him, right, We're all
set up and everything. He goes, he turns around to me.
He goes, wow, I wonder if he's He says, I'm
so excited to be gentleman. He goes, I wonder if
(37:36):
he wears those granny glasses all the time. And so
I don't know, you know, the doorbell rings, the door opens,
and there's John with the granny glasses on. It was
like unbelievable. David turns around me and looked he goes, oh,
he's got on right. So then John comes in David, right,
(37:57):
you know, they were talking like that and everything, and
he was like, it's a pleasure to work because he
made that's a pleasure and pleasure. So then they started
they were talking and whatever, and John was jamming on
the twelve string and he was playing across the universe.
It was so beautiful. He was playing. You know, you know,
(38:18):
I'm really enjoying itself today. You know, there's not a
lot of sessions I love or enjoy, and I'm really
enjoying myself today. And David just looked and said, oh, really, yeah,
that is so great. Then Yoko comes in with a
great big tray sushi and said that but lunch, and
she puts it down and she leaves. And I understood
(38:42):
exactly why they didn't like her. It was because she
was women's lived and I didn't I didn't know what
until I met her. She was like women's rights, women
being treated equally. And that was what how John treated her.
He treats her like a fleet and so that was
that was what happened there. But it was it was
(39:03):
And so then h and when you know the tha
thaa hey, did that part right there. David tells me
go in there and just keep saying ba ba babying
thing ba baby. I said, why he goes, just do it.
So I went in and I and I did it.
(39:23):
And that's what they ended up with here between his
voice and and and John's and mine mixed together. That
is an incredible trio. That's gotta be fun being part
of that trio. Oh, it was so much fun. It
was so it was so and like I said, I
didn't know why he asked me to do it because
I didn't have never heard of them doing it like that,
(39:43):
but it was so that was great and and and
then then after we finished doing the session, we went
back to the Dakota and he had dinner with them,
you know, and uh, and we just sat up all
night and and we just had the best time with
with Yoko and John. John always seemed like he had
(40:06):
an incredible sense of humor. He must have that must
have made you leave, would make you laugh and stuff.
He would just it was really hysterical. And uh. And
and she had like this this this herbal room, you know,
because in the Dakota it's like nine huge rooms, like
in a big house in a mansion, and they had like,
(40:26):
well maybe at nine, but at least six big rooms.
And she had one room where she did her art
and and everything like that in one room where she
had her her plants and her herbs and all of
that other stuff. And she was real sweet. It's real sweet.
I know that David hung out with Mick quite a
bit Mick Jagger during this period. What was their relationship like?
(40:47):
Was it a rivalry? Was it a friendship? Was that
all the It wasn't It wasn't a rivalry. It was
those two tough guys, two guys that are hot during
the same period, two different kind of genres because David
was Glham rock and Nick was like, you know the
honkey talk blues, you know rocker, you know what I'm saying, um,
(41:10):
And and they were they were. They admired one another,
They admired what one another did, and so we used
to hang out together and go out to dinner together
and party together and all that other stuff, and they
became good friends. One of my favorite songs from from
(41:32):
Young Americans Can You Hear Me, which I believe David
wrote for you, What is what is it like that
David didn't can you hear me? From me? He? Can
you hear me? He were way back, was Lulu. But
but I mean, I don't know whether he did or not.
He never told me did. I'm just saying that when
(41:54):
I was first with him, he wrote it, and then
Lulu sang it, and I I didn't know. Sometimes David
would write songs he wouldn't tell the person if it
was about them or not. You know what I'm saying.
But it would be like the songs that would be
about me would be like stay, stay, It's what I
had to stay or do something. What I never stay
(42:14):
is stay this time. I meant you so bad because
when we held, because you could never really tell when
somebody wants something you want to so it was about
me wanting to be a superstar too. I did and
and and that was one song stay. And there was
(42:36):
the other song, Golden Years. Listen to the words don't
let me hear you say? Lives taking You know where
angel In walked luck and you looked in time always
walked tall at fine because he walked in and I
and reattached to each other. And from then on he
(42:56):
was trying to help me. And he saw you know,
and so you know, and I was that I was
young and I was super young, you know, and he
was that. So there's a there's a there's a lot
of things like that. Those two songs Scolden Years and
Stay that must bring back when you hear them, just
so many memories and well, I can't imagine what that's
like to hear a song that that, that's that enormous
(43:19):
and know, oh, that's that's about me. I'm a part
of that. How is that? You know? I know, I
know he did. But he used to make me feel
sad east Man me feel sad and tearful. But now
now I you know, I just enjoyed it. I know
that it was about me. I hope you feel proud.
Oh I feel proud. I do, I do. I I mean,
(43:40):
I know because when when David and I broke up,
it wasn't because of anything liked be cheating on him
or him cheating on me, or me doing something wrong.
It was because of the business and may Men was
all messed up and they and the money was all
crazy and he didn't know where his money was and
all that. So he just wanted to break from everybody
anything that seemed response that he had to be responsible
(44:01):
for instand. And so I stayed in love with him
for so long because I knew I didn't do anything
wrong for us to break up. It wasn't It was
just a purple stance. And and you know, I mean
I was loyal to him to the end. To me,
I was, you know. And I think a lot of
the people that were around him they hated that I
(44:23):
was with him, that I was there so long, because
I think they thought, as I think Angie thought that
I was just gonna be like, you know, a couple
of months and I was gonna be a flash in
the pan. But I told you she made a mistake
when she did that. Was that seems like such a
difficult period, I mean in Los Angeles in ninety five,
(44:44):
when when you were living with Claudia Jennings, and that
seems like such a dark period. I mean, just what
was it a business and money issues? Was it just
the people? He was? It was business the money issues?
Because when when I when when he had to go
to l A. He said to me, you know, leaving
to morrow Fair, l A. And you know, the guy
had got me an apartment. May Man got me an apartment,
but it was just I was by myself. I would
(45:06):
have been by myself, and you know, I was really
so truthfully, I don't know. I was always getting into
these magical situations where something was saved me from to
older disaster. And I was crying and I the phone
rang and I answered it and it was my girlfriend Claudia,
and she said, hey, but I mean, I'm in New York.
What are you doing there? Let's see you. I was
(45:27):
crying and says, why are you crying? You? And I said, well,
breaking up with David, and I'm I don't know what
to do and he's gonna leave me here and I
just feel kind of like I don't know what to
do with myself. And she goes, well why, I said, well,
he's going through some money problems and things. She said,
you stay right there til I get there. So she
(45:49):
came over and he didn't know who she was because
I never talked about her. The doorbell ring, she comes
in and she was just really ballsy, you know, white
girl that just was like a playmate that you know,
all the man had a fucking drop dead body and
everything like that, but she would think like a man.
I mean, she would do business like a man. She
was really like, you know, she was just a tough broad,
(46:10):
you know what I'm saying. And all the men loved
her because she was beautiful, but she had brains. And
so she she comes in, she goes, she walks over
to him and she I said, this is my girlfriend,
Clay and David he goes, hello, she goes. She didn't
even give him the nicety. She said, why are you
Are you gonna leave able here by herself and you're
gonna go somewhere else? And after all this time you've
(46:32):
been together, and you know, and what does she do?
She does something wrong and she started talking for me.
So he's looking at her like, who is this bitch? Yeah?
But the truth of the matter me is that he
was respecting her because he knew that what she was
saying was right. He was, well, I can't go into
(46:53):
explain you right now, but you know, I gotta go tomorrow.
And so she goes, okay, well I'm taking her with me.
I'm taking order to Jamaica, a new we go to
Barbados and then we're gonna go back to l A. No,
she had said to l A Y. So he just
said okay like that. So we said our goodbyes and
she said pack your things. I packed my stuff and
(47:15):
she just whisked me off and that was it. I
don't know what happened to the apartment they got for me,
because I never went. I just went with her. And
she saved me, because she saved me all kinds of ways.
She saved me mentally because I would have been like
destroyed mentally, like what am I gonna do with myself now?
And and she saved me that she took me to, like,
(47:38):
you know, because she was really good friends with Chris
black But who owned Diving Island Records, and he was
in love with her, so we wouldn't stayed with Chris
and everything for a while, and we had a ball.
Then we ended up back in l A. This is
where she lived, and she lived up to Wonderland and
so we're there and I had I had told David's lawyer, Um, Michael,
(48:02):
who's Michael's last name? Yeah, Michael Littman. You know, you
know what I do. You don't remember Michael Littman. And
I called him when I got to l A with her,
and I said, Michael, listen, can you please a Stavid
to call me, please tell him that I'd love to
talk to him. And so he goes, I'll tell him.
(48:23):
So he did, and he was a full moon that night.
I remember the phone raings and so she answers it
and she goes, oh hey, okay, she answer me me.
He goes, hello, Johnny said David, you know. He goes,
what are you doing here? I said, well, we went
through the islands, and then you know, she caught he
lives here. He goes, she lives here? And I said,
(48:43):
he she's she lives with Laura Kenyon. He goes, that's
where I am. He goes, I'll be down there in
ten minutes. I said, okay, So I told her. I said,
he said he was coming down. She's that's okay. It
was a cool bit. It was really it's really cool.
My god, she got she died. She died really young.
She died when she was like your thirty one. She's
(49:06):
in a car accident, a really bad car accent on
on Pacifical Sideway. But anyway, uh yeah, she has her
Her life was brief. But anyway, so the doorbell rings.
It's David, and I'm so happy to see him. I mean,
my eyes. I know, my eyes looked like I was
happy because I was. I just missed him so much,
(49:27):
and so, you know, we hugged, and so I looked
down and I see he has two suitcases, and that's
the David, why have you got your suitcases? He goes,
I'm gonna stay with you guys for a while. I'm like,
this isn't my house. That's where it got. I said,
(49:48):
this isn't my house, you know, And so Claudia standing there,
I said, Claudia, she goes, that's okay, that's okay, I'll
work out something. I mean, this is how she was talking.
She wasn't she was a phased or upset about any
of it. She was actually intrigued by him because she
knew who he was. So she was intrigued. So she
(50:10):
was like, she was an adventurous girl and she like
the adventure. So the next thing we knew, he spent
the night there, and because her boyfriend lived there, Bobby Hart,
who was who made the monkey, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Bobby boys that was I mean, Bobby Hart, that was
her boyfriend man. And so anyway, so the next day
(50:33):
she comes, she goes, listen to donning. I fixed it
I wish. I asked Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner could
borrow their apartment for about two months and there and
there in Europe. So they said yes. So it had
like a two bedroom apartment and uh conda. So we
went there and we stayed there for about a month
(50:57):
and a half something like that, all three of you,
or just you and David, No, all three of us.
She had her own her own room and we had ours. Yeah,
and you know, that still didn't save us, because he
was going through still his mental things about what had
happened to him. Plus he was, you know, there was
(51:18):
you know, he was being plagued by all these um people,
Alistair Crawley people and people that he was feeling like things,
you know, accult things are going on and all that
other stuff that kind of in that vibe by that time. Yeah,
it seemed like he was dealing with a lot of
personal demons at that time. Yeah. Yeah, and I and
(51:41):
I was, and we had you know, we it was
like I knew to myself, I said, well, this is
probably it, because I could see that he was still
very much affected by this what was going on, and
it was it was super emotional to him. So you know,
(52:02):
that was one of the last times we sawed each other.
We started each other couple more times, and he advinted
Marilyn and Rose House and he invited me there. Oh wow,
what what was that like at Maryland's house? It was?
It was it was beautiful. It was kind of creepy
because I was like, is this Maryland's house something? Really?
(52:22):
I mean it was a beautiful house, so at nice
pool and everything. And so I think we were I
think we were good until Claudia decided she was like
dating Ronnie Wood and they invited her. They invited us
to man talk when they were doing the Steal Drums
(52:44):
tour rehearsing. So she asked me if I wanted to go,
and I and I said yes because Ronnie said bring Ava.
So because Ronnie was a friend of ours and David
used to were allays staying out together. So we got there,
and you know, Mick and I and and David had
(53:04):
all hung out together before, so Mick knew me real well, right,
and and we we got there and so apparently Mick
had gotten into an accident. He fell through a glass
and and cut his arms, so he had his arm
in a sling and so we were all they were rehearsing,
and so it was all laughing and having a good time.
(53:25):
And now El said, Nick walked in and he saw
me and he was like, oh wow, ab able do it,
And so he was making a lot study short. At
the end of the night, I ended up hanging out
with Mick because I knew Mick like that, you know,
And so in my group of Claudia and she was saying, Weroni.
(53:46):
And but some kind of way, David heard about it,
and I think that was the last straw that was
That was the thing that made him, that made us
break up, because even though I've never done anything there,
I mean, never ever done any um betrayed him with
any other man, you know when we were together. I
(54:09):
think it was when because things were so sensitive, and
my thing about Mick was that he was a friend
and I needed somebody to reach out to that new
David jame Stone I saying, yeah, I needed I needed, Yes,
I needed that emotional that we had all hung out
together and laughed and had a good time and I
(54:29):
felt comfortable with being around Mick. But you know, David
didn't see it like that. So you know, when I
tried to call him. I tried call him and I
called me a man. I said, can you please as
David to call me? And so one of the girls said,
he's he's mad at you, And I said, what because
(54:49):
because he heard you up in line talk with with
Mick with the Stones. And I said, oh, And there
was really nothing I could say because it was what
it was. And but I still loved him. The only
reason that I reached out to, you know, is because
(55:12):
I we were all friends and he was such a
cool guy. But I also just felt emotionally kind of
good with him, you know what I'm saying, And so um,
and I was just desperate to be around anybody that
we were together, that we have been together with somebody,
and and and so you know, I guess I didn't
(55:36):
really realize that, you know, that he would be jealous,
that you know of that, And but I guess I
guess that's that's a feather in my cap that he
would be because a lot of men might not have
been you know what I'm saying. I guess I guess
I guess I must have missed something. So, you know,
but like I said, I still I still carried on
(55:56):
loving him for such a long time after that. Do
you remember the last time you were in touch with David,
either in person or on the phone. Oh no, A
long time, long long. By the time I tried to
(56:19):
reach out to him, like, uh, he was already and
he has already been diagnosed with cancer. I think it
was in chemo he was. They weren't letting him, giving
him his emails or sending him his emails or whatever. Um,
I just I just the last time I saw him
was when he and Aman got engaged, an Iman, who
(56:43):
I knew before they were together, but I didn't know
that they were dating each other. And I don't know
even if they were dating each other during that time.
It was just just it just so happened that, you know, um,
we were a friend of mine had invited me to
their engagement party, and so I was, you know, I
got all dressed up, and I think I looked fabulous,
(57:05):
and of course she looked fabulous, she always does. And
she walks over to me and she says, Aba, look
at the engagement ring Dave David gave me. So I said,
I said that that's really wonderful. Eman. I hope you
too will be very happy. And I mean I didn't see.
(57:27):
I wish that they would be happy, but I felt
hurt inside. I did. I actually admit I felt. Wow.
You know it was I mean, it was it was time.
I mean it was it was. It was a while
after me that he started dating her. And I guess
this in my heart, I never I didn't think he
was gonna be with another black girl. That's all I'm saying.
(57:51):
But you know, then then then the then the Billboard
came out with an article that said, before there was Iman,
there was Ava Cherry. And that's right, because Emon always
says that she knows David Jones. I didn't really know
David Jones. I knew David Bowie really yeah, I mean
I didn't David Jones. She he showed his David Jones
(58:13):
side when he stopped doing drugs and everything and that,
but he I saw David Bowie. I mean, I was
there with you know, some of the most prolific stuff,
early prolifics, prolifics stuff. But I just you know, but
I mean, you know, I understand that people can you know,
I believe he loves me. I certainly loved him, and
(58:34):
I believe he loved me he showed me, and whenever
we took pictures together, he always looked at me as
though he loved me in the ways that he treated me.
But you know, you could love him more than one
person in a lifetime, and he found someone else that
he loved dearly and deeply and I and I was
glad that he did. I was glad. I was glad
that those times of you know, the drug stuff and
(58:57):
in the emotional feelings about things going on with gone,
and that he found someone that you could feel, you know,
you know, calm with and and and and love and
love him back. I never saw it as something, you know,
and any kind of of frond to me. I saw
it as that that phase that was with him, he
(59:21):
loved me, and then he went into another phase. And
that's and I mean, I've loved I've loved more than
one person something him. So I'm just saying that that's
what happens, you know, And I was glad that he was,
you know, well and happy and and all of that.
(59:41):
Is there one memory for you that's sort of like
a snapshot that for you encapsulates your time together. One
that's that's really one of your favorite moments together. I
would I would have to say when I first met
him that night in the club, and and and and
in Doville, because we were like it was in Doville.
(01:00:02):
It was like being in this incredible castle with and
just it was all about love and being together and
being warm and then doing the music too. But it
was it felt so right. I would have to say,
do Ville was one of the most beautiful times in
my life. And you keep them alive in your music.
(01:00:25):
You recently released an amazing cover of of Let's Dance,
and you've covered a few of his songs too, an
Age Daydream in life on Mars. Uh, what are you
working on now? I know you have an album do
out soon. Well, now, I just you know, during the summer,
I had a song out called Testified Love. That's that's
that's out there, which I think is a great song,
(01:00:47):
and and I wrote it and and produced it and
and uh in my Soul came like about a couple
of months ago. Uh. And right now we're working on
a film about my life with him. So we were
we you know, the COVID is slowed down. We were
gonna start shooting in last March, but then the COVID
(01:01:10):
slowed everything down. So we're still working on that, and
it's gonna be brilliant. I'm just I mean, it's gonna
be it's just gonna be good. It's gonna be the truth.
It's gonna be to something like a fairy tale, because
it certainly was to me. I I never knew anybody
that had those experiences like I did. I felt like
(01:01:30):
a princess. I did the Black Princess, and you know,
they and you know, my fans. He started them calling
me black Barbararella because when that we did the nineteen
eight floor, so they had me wearing these real futuristic
outfits and so I was like, Jane, Yeah, so they
called me black, but I have a fan club. They
had my fan club black Barbara, and so he would
(01:01:53):
call me black Barbaralla. He would go, okay, he was
the clever girl, black Barbararella. I just thought. But that
was his favorite thing with me, who's the clever girl?
If I would do something because I was always trying
to do things and would make him say, wow, you
do that, or and whenever I do something amazing, who's
(01:02:14):
the clever girl, Black Barbarella. You mentioned learning a lot
from David. What do you think he learned from you?
What was your impact on me? Think? You know, I
contributed a lot to this fop culture, and I think
that also what I contributed to David was his his
(01:02:36):
making him feel less vulnerable to people, because we would
sometimes get out of limousine and people kids with Russell
go hey even and he would he would he would like,
he would like, you know, jump back like he was,
you know, maybe be afraid. And I said, daven don't
be afraid. These your fans, they love you, they love you.
And he started seeing that when people would come up
(01:02:57):
to him, he wouldn't he wouldn't recoil. He would and
even said that to me, you make me feel good
when I'm around other people. And you know, I just
think that that's what he saw in me. He saw
that I was a good person. I was. I didn't
have a mean bone in my body. I've run into
people that I've talked to new over the years and
(01:03:17):
I said, what was I like? Because I can't remember
his thing? He said, Eva, And I mean, I'm not
stroking myself. You were so sweet and so nice. You
never really mean to anybody. You were always anybody that
you know want to speak to David or talk to
you know, you were always just sweet and I and
(01:03:38):
that made me feel good because I never thought I
was a bit of any kind, and I never tried
to be, you know, I never did. I felt lots
of daggers in my back blow a lot, you know,
from a lot of people that didn't want me around
because they thought I had too much influence over Davia,
you know, and that that bothered me because I never
(01:04:00):
tried to make any enemies or anything that but it
was just the nature of the beast that being around
someone like David, who everybody wants and everybody wanted to
be around, and everybody wanted to sleep with, everybody wanted
to work with, everybody, you know, not baggage just must
have been so tough to deal with when you just
you just wanted it to be you two, and sometimes
(01:04:20):
I'm sure you wanted to just go and walk down
the banks of the Saint or go to have a
dinner together at a restaurant and not in the back room,
and just be like normal, a normal couple in love. Yes,
and we were, and we had those opportunities to do
just that, you know, because a lot of the the musicians.
You know, they weren't really on the social you know David.
(01:04:42):
David loved and respected all his musicians, but you know,
his private life he kept pretty private. And it wasn't
about you know, having you know, dinner with the whole
band or anything like that or whatever. Like I mean,
you know, he did it, but he did not. It
was not if he was with someone that he wanted
to be with, like a woman or whatever. No, that
(01:05:05):
it was more you know, he could do things, but
he wanted to be with that person that he was with. Um.
But like I said, he taught me so so many
things about just you know, how to just how to
how to to be in the rock world and just
and flourished and be okay and be and and you know,
(01:05:29):
my mom is always staying to me, if you died tomorrow,
you've done more than a whole lot, You've done their
whole lifetime. And like, yeah, yeah, I guess maybe that
could be true, and maybe that could be true. That
could be true. Off the Record is a production of
I Heart Radio. If you liked what you heard, please
(01:05:49):
subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts from
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