September 17, 2024 • 53 mins
Retinol, white strips, and burying our dead in the earth. Jacqueline teaches Kate the Pallbearer Shuffle. Kate tells Jacqueline about the first time she saw a corpse. Jacqueline woke up listening to Caroline Myss. Women become more powerful with age. Force Majeure. Ben Franklin’s habit tracking. Surviving on 24 hours in a day. Kate considers an Erewhon membership.
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This episode was edited and engineered by C. Tweedie.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kate Berlance, I'm Jacqueline Novak, And.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is poog, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive, fresh.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Two untamable intellects.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is our hobby, this is our hell, This is
our naked desire for free products. This is POOG. Today's
topics looselie.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Speaking retinal two hundred dollars, the Paul Bearer shuffle. Hello, Hey,
it's me. I say anything different about me today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, yeah, so the listener can't see, of course, But Jacqueline,
just before we started recording, showed me that she has
a zip, which for her is unheard of. So it's
a remarkable day for you to actually have a blemish,
a visible blemish.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Only unheard of, you know, in the lore of the podcast.
I feel right, it's.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's well, I've been looking at your face for years
and I've never seen a blemish.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, I'm covering rose Sha, of course, I think, although
that remains, but I don't. I've never minded my rosie.
I've never reminded it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
There's a lot of controversy in the Rosetia community. I
feel like people ascribe rosesha like I had. Dermatologists recently
be like.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh, whether it's real or not? Right?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, no, no, no, she was like, she was like,
maybe that's rose siha. And I'm like, well would you
know you know?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, well, I had a derm say it's acne, and
I don't mean saying what you have in your skin,
Jaqueline is acne. I'm him going Rose SHA's acne?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh wow wow.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And then yesterday I was reading, well, I was reading that,
so a couple of things. One, well, yesterday I was
googling retinal, purge, retnall, breakout, whatever, because I finally tried
my tretonoen.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Okay, see, I'm so glad we're getting into this because
I literally fear I don't know about retinal. I don't
know about it. I feel left out. I remember using
it a little bit in my like twenties, like my
mother had some and I and I was like, please
give it to me until she gave me some. But
then I stopped and I never returned. And now I'm
feeling the anxiety. Have I destroyed my life by not
(02:11):
using retinal for the last you know, six years?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
No, I don't think so, I think. Sorry, I'm just
noticing a little redness. So I'm grabbing what was that
concealed eyeshadow? It's actually eyeshadow primary. You know this old
two faced Uh, it's one of these babies, and it's oh,
what is this two faced shadow insurance or twenty four
plus hour anti crease? I keep your joy, keeping your
(02:37):
eyes shadow on. I have to get this lipstick off immediately.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You know why why?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It's it's the exact color that makes my oh so
pearly white teeth have a hint of another color to them.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Teeth whitening actually something we've never discussed, and I have curiosity.
I did cress white strips as like a thirteen year old, yeah,
for like two days and then gave up. But now,
did you have pain? I think I did experience some sensitivity,
but I don't recall.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I was like, I was flat on my back screaming.
I was like literally, and you know, I'm not like that,
Like I'm like very like stoic, you know, or or
just yeah, like for beauty. Yeah, like I was. I
was trying this laser thing on my face. This nera
(03:28):
was and I was trying, and I'm like, and to me,
it feels like you know what what laser feels like,
which is, to me, feels like a burning needle, like
a needle that's lit on fire, piercing. Now, while in
one sense that sounds horrifying, might be better than a
(03:48):
cold needle, you know, that might actually make super sensation. Yeah,
but I I turned to Chris once again, always turning
to him, and I was like, you could never withstand
what I was stand for beauty or whatever. You know,
of course, I mean it's like it's the unspoken thing,
like I mean, we all know, like but literally like drag,
(04:10):
you know, an exfoliant across the average you know, heteroman's face.
I'm just I'm just talking, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, of course they don't know what we do. So
the exhausted femme is a favorite archetype of mine and
one that I lean into at every chance.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
That's genius, the exhausted femme.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You're damn right, I'm tired, Honey, You're damn right, I'm tired.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
You're right, I'm tired. Well, you know what I've I'm
pretty interested in people who and we'll get to the retinal,
but I'm I'm pretty interested and compelled by people who
truly put on a face oh yeah, and that's their
face to the world and the concealer with the and
I'm actually impressed by it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, well, what's the It's the classic trope, right if
the woman who goes to sleep with the full face
of makeup lest there be an emergency in the night
and the firemen show up and she's, you know, unpresentable.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Meanwhile, I've gone the other route. I'm like this idea
of stained underwear, which you know and you know, oh,
you don't want to wear stained underwear. What if you
get in a car accident. It's like, well, first of all,
glad that that's what you'll be thinking about, mother, And
second of all, I mean my mother never said that explicitly, No,
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Where was I also like, what movie is that in?
That's so familiar?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I know it's I think it's I think it's it's
brilliant fifties concern.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And then it's a it's a brilliant idea. It's it's
a it's a brilliant horror distilled to something that's very
tangible and real. It's of course, you know, and I'm
not going to get into ways of seeing in John Berger.
We all know it, right, Yeah, but a line was
haunted me from that text was you know, a woman,
what is it like even at her father's funeral she
is aware of being watched or whatever. And it's like, yeah,
(05:53):
you can't even you can't even that image of like
a woman weeping over her father or whoever's grave and
having to have like a cute dress on is So.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Do you have a lot of experience weeping at funerals?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And I like, do you have you loved this question?
I don't have a lot, lucky me, but I've I
recall I've had a couple of weeps. Yeah, how about you?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, I mean there's been some some sort of tragic
deaths in the family that you know, have that quality
at the funeral that is not just.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
No, it's not just the morning.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's the life well lived. You know, you know death
is always said, but and but there, you know, it
can all be very six feet underish to kind of
like to eat after a funeral. The way that feels
to me is so ecstatic, you know what, Like, well,
there's two versions. There's one which is they're like I
want to go get a burger okay? Or is that
(07:04):
which I love? And then like entering a diner or
something and just under the context of of death, then
being in a diner and ordering your favorite stuff whatever.
Mm God, that's good. And then the other is sort
of this disturbing but oddly comforting like bagels at the
synagogue thing. I've experienced a couple of times, the thing that, yeah,
(07:27):
have you ever been a pallbearer?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
No, but my eyes are widening because my I once
watched my father be a pallbearer And then I you know,
kind of the celebrity of that, like, well, my dad
was a pallbear you know, did your dad? Well?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
The celebrity at the funerals one of my absolute favorite topics. Okay,
because the closer you are to the death, the bigger
your celebristatus.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Your day is your special day.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, and like fighting, you know, of course, the I
mean I remember, yeah, like elbowing. I remember like elbowing
past people like kind of like, you know, I'm the cousin,
I'm the granddaughter, right, I mean status fucking respect, Yeah,
grief based status is major. And then oh, my god,
I've been in Paul Barr a couple of times, and oh,
(08:14):
it's like it's like one of these things in life
where I'm like, how is this, Like how is this
always happening? Because I felt like we're gonna drop this thing.
Like I was like, this is not like me and
my cousin's holding the coffin, which is like what it's
been a couple.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Times, and like we're not strong people who can't give
it to the kids.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, it's given to the kids. And I remember specifically,
I think it was I think it was my grandfather's funeral.
But we were like, you know, holding the coffin and
having to bring it right over the hole in the ground,
and like there were these planks, these wooden planks that
were kind of there along the side of it. To
(08:59):
I don't know, so that that's what you walk on,
these planks so you're not on loose ground or something
like you're gonna fall in. And it was like rattling
planks as we're all carrying something way too heavy for us.
And I always think of it in my mind, like
I have a name for it's a pall bearer shuffle. Okay,
(09:19):
it's very specific.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
So like to me, it's like I hold something, I'll
hold something like uncomfortably like too big, Okay, cause it's.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's like you have to to be clear. It's like swift,
rapid movements of the feet. So it's not the covers
as much gund as possible.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, yes, rabbit shuffling and like we've seen in you know,
I always like a movie where a corpse rolls out
of a coffin. That's like like I'm just like yeah,
like I'm in yeah, and it's yeah, it's just it
felt really, It's just I don't think there should be
such high risk, should we really be?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
No, no, no that that and by the way, and then
you're potentially putting imagine the weight no pun intended of
that on somebody like I dropped the body. I mean
it's just the horror of that seems like a huge risk.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Are you aware of you know, so Jews Jewish, there's
an idea that the coffin should be plain simple wood
body cedar. Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Maybe it's not cedar and look at cedar cedars so fragrant.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, theedar wi almost yeah, like keep them all?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
How do you soy? Yeaha hater? Yeah, what's your experience
with open casket?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Well that's the thing as so as a Jew, same
thing you don't really get the open casket generally.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Thank God.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And so the only time you've experienced open casket are
other people's relatives. And I mean open casket is like
wild a psychedelic.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I mean, I've only seen it once, but I was
a child and I remember going with my parents to
this funeral and then there was the open casket and
there was the person and it was like, yeah, just psychedelic, unimaginable,
and I wanted to run. And of course what I
wanted to do is just run and stare. I wanted
to stay. I wanted to be alone in a room
(11:42):
with the casket ideally to be able to just freely stare.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But you can't have to not have to perform like.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
What, yeah, I know they're dead and that that's them,
Like what could possibly be the problem?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There is no I mean to me, there's no greater
intimacy because then to see someone's dead body, right.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Oh my god, I'm imagining that you like you, I
would allow you to see my dead body. That is
the ultimate vulnerability.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
My cousin Rachel once said, like, because at one of
our family member's funerals, like you know, we were taking
turns throwing dirt on the grave, but but actually like
actually filling in the hole completely, like shoveling it right,
because that's like I don't know again, I think that's
part of the Jewish thing, is like cool, there's like
the gesture version, like everyone's supposed to throw some dirt
(12:35):
on actual there's the actual and I like really took
actually no, I think yeah, I like like really took
to it and found it like like I'm like it
was six feet under yeah, like influenced, but I was
like like, yeah, like this sectually feels like sort of
sacred and sort of beautiful. I agree completely, And even
(12:56):
though it's I remember my grandfather, non Jew, talking about
experiencing that at the Jewish funerals and being like god,
you know, like so horrifying, like dirt hitting the casket,
and I'm like, no, I love it. And so I
don't know. I took something and was like really getting
into it, and I was like working. I was like
shoveling intensely, like like like I'm gonna finish it up
(13:17):
with the boys because there is filling crass about like well,
let's walkup, like let's head back to blah blah blah,
these guys will finish filling it.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
In the other women kind of with their umbrellas arms linked,
kind of walk away towards the buffet and the men
are left.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, umbrellas and arms linked is genius. Yeah, it's like
to finish the job. Like it's very weird to walk away.
But anyways, and my cousin Rachel was like, like saw
it and was like, I want you to do that
for me one day or is this something you know
what I mean? Oh imagine me Like, well, you know,
(13:56):
I was listening to Carolyn Mace this morning. Carolyn Mace,
as we all know, mysass, is one of my absolute favorites.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Earlier today jack Can texted me I woke up listening
to Mace and I didn't know what she meant who
And then you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, please, I'm absolutely
clear because I don't have experience with her.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And she was just talking about, you know, our absolute
denial of death and and our refusal.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
To well, the West failed us.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I think of you know, acknowledged death and and
that we're just you know, trying to live longer and longer,
but but trying to look just I forget what she
got it. It's just like the absolute rudeness to our own bodies,
like we asked them to endure, We like do all
this ship to make them endure, and then like absolutely
hate and disgrace the signs of their endurance. It's like, oh,
(14:44):
it's so rude.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's so rude.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
When like you know, and it's it's uh, it's not
like the question of women and aging is not uh,
is not like if you think you've covered it, you
still have it. It's like endlessly it's not not fresh. No, no,
like yeah, we know women, Oh, after a certain age,
(15:11):
they're tossed out like trash, like like there's more to
be said. M we just have to develop a space for.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
And she really she I was saying, and I say
her name, but I think she would have no trouble
with me attributing this to her brilliant writer. And I'm
honored in shocked to say a friend, Sheila Hetty, I
was talking to her recently and she was like, it's
just true. Women become more powerful with age. She's like,
it's just the truth, like more powerful, more beautiful, more
(15:41):
and it's just it is I believe it.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, Well I've heard I've also read things about specifically
like like you know, women who fear men of pause
and then like and then I mean I speak. I
can imagine people listening going there's it's nothing like that whatever.
But I'm just saying I've read a couple of things
where like the women being like, you know, I was
so afraid of this this and this noess, but actually
(16:08):
it freed.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Me God totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And I read in one of these period sort of
books that I was reading, the about the cycles and
stuff like that, kind of talking about like being free
from the monthly cycle, allowing you to kind of like
live this larger like live a larger like m just larger,
(16:33):
like you're in a different cycle, like the big one. Yeah, yeah,
like you're in the the waning moon of that.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
No, it's it's it's truly fascinating to think about.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
We need to start visualizing now, so it's not an
after the fact thing.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Menopause.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, and deeper like us at ninety eight, oh, dancing
wildly or not dancing wildly or like barely moving but
you know, clinking a martini. Whatever it is, doesn't it
doesn't have to be defying. It could be like right,
but just well, because that's exactly creating images, creating interesting story.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's enough. My god. Absolutely, yeah, you're right, because it's
always like the aging woman, right, It's like, look at her,
you'd never know she's seventy four. Look at her lifting
his weights, look at that, and it's like, fuck you
what about just yea, what if she's like having Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
My mom always she's very like she's she's like, you know,
like we're all gonna die. Like she's been saying it
since twelve.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You know. I feel lucky that my parents also have
talked about death. My dad has always been like I
was always kind of like like yeah, And I even
remember one time him kind of slapping down the will
on the table, like the will like you know, like
power of attorney, like you got, you know obviously like
unplug me, you know, like that kind of stuff. And
(17:57):
I like kind of the the casual nature of that
is really freeing. And and I totally lost. But oh
my mom, I remember during COVID as I say this,
if it's over, I met like early COVID, pre vaccine, yeah,
pre vaccine, COVID being a very concern for their their
safety obviously, and my mom kind of being like oh God,
(18:20):
and you know, she was very anxious, but she's like,
if we get it, we die, we die, you know.
So it's like it's like if we die.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
We die almost like what what has become the sort
of thinking is this kind of idea of like, well
I only want to die on my term.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Right or avoid death at all costs. And it's like, well,
avoid all we can, we can try to not die,
and we do usually through very there's mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You're always bargaining, making a bargain, like like you're always
saying what you're willing to do, like how much you're willing.
Like some people I don't know don't wear seatbelts and
that's the bargain and they're making with life. They're like
yeah that always for me, that's not a worthwhile bargain
to me too.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I always I'm maddened by that.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I got to protect a career, if not yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Well, and I feel like I've talked about this recently,
but also protect the other people in the car. You
not wearing a seatbelt can kill someone else. Say that's
what you have your their body flies forward, it kills you.
So That's what I say when I get one of
these seat belt people who tries to act like they're
only hurting themself, you know, or not hurting themselves. God,
I guess there's just this. I guess like part of
(19:33):
my way of putting off the idea of death is
I imagine like as if like I'll be so old. It's
like it's like, all right, I'm like, oh, let's just
try to be as old as possible. Right, you start there,
and then you got to look at that and go
why why is that what I want? And it's like, oh,
because if I'm as old as possible, I won't be
me anymore. And that's almost like I'm not dying. It's
like someone else is dying and it's like, nope, bitch,
(19:57):
that'll be you right there. Continuous consciousness from me, You're
to there, just the way you know, your your consciousness
has been continuous since childhood. Like now, yes, childhood feels
far away, but also does it I don't know. I
guess that's really the horror is that it's going to
be you and you, It's going to be you even
(20:17):
at twenty. Yeah, I mean that's why it's like maybe
it's superior. For the mind to go before the body
is what I'm saying. No, no, I mean the desire
to have a clean way out. I don't know. It
seems like sudden death is the answer.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I would hope to the mind going first disturbs me more.
But yes, at sudden death, I think the bust to
the head, the coconut to the top of the head.
Imagine both of us die in the next week.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Oh well, well, yeah, I mean, it's.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Your It's hard for me not to quote your genius
joke here.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
The big problem for me with death is that I
and this is why. Well, it's all it's all my
fucking show. So we'll just leave it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I believe it. Okay, Well we should go to break.
When we come back, we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I'm gonna show, folks. Tickets are on sale, Okay, all
months in Los Angeles. Okay, Tuesdays.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And we're back. Yeah yeah, what no, no, no, I'm just
just leaving my death. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh. I had a major realization the other night. Gummy induced,
I mean, well not gummy induced. I got news for you, folks.
There is no notion inside of a weed. Gummy A
gummy yeah, still has to happen in your head, of course,
So what was it? Give it to me still fresh insights.
I had this like moment about and it's you know
(21:56):
how the things that are the most profound are the
most obvious, blah blah. Okay, so I'm like, this might,
this might not, this might sound like nothing, but I
saw it in a way that felt like something which
was Okay, your life as a substance time that could
run out the bottle of shower jel that you're afraid
to use whatever. Yeah, right, And I was thinking about like,
(22:17):
live your life, live live your life. Juicet juice at
juice it right, And in order to do that you
have to well you could either be like a you know,
a raving spiritual loon, right, just like in pure present tense,
just whirling about an ecstasy. Right. I guess that is
an option. But otherwise, you know, there has to be
(22:39):
a certain amount of like thinking about your life in
order to make the most use of it. Right, Yeah,
there has to be some arguably, there's some thinking, some
planning something.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I mean, you can't just got a raw nerve. You
can't just be ecstatically rolling on the front lawn coming because.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
First of all, like what home are you in if
you haven't you know, like there are some basics to
be taken care of survival wise, right, so so, but
but even settings like that, even just trying to live
a life well okay, like take some time to like
work shit out psychologically for yourself anyway, It's just this
moment where I realized, like that there's this ongoing bargain
(23:22):
where I go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna allocate
some of the time I have towards making another time
in my life better mm hmm. And in order and
in doing that, I'm continually I'm shrinking the amount of
time that I'll have to enjoy the thing. But I'm
still i still think that's the right choice. So it's
(23:46):
but it's weird. It's weird because I could suddenly see
it like this line and I'm taking It's like I'm
taking some of the thread or the rope. I'm using
some of the slack. It's like I'm depleting yet purposely.
It's like cutting more hair to get the bangs straight,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
No, it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
It's like there's something it's like the metaphor's not there.
But I just I saw it very clearly, and it
wasn't just necess so you got all their life and
the president you gott to throw it all out the
window and whatever. It was like. So, we were talking
a couple of weeks ago about oh, you have one
day left to live or whatever, right, and we're like,
it's dinner. It's dinner. Of course, it's it's dinner. We
plan right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Now if you and me are like, okay, we have
you know, we have twelve hours left to.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Live, I'm at the market immediately.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Do you think we're not spending one hour of that
crying planning the dinner, you know, choosing the foods?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Right? Oh? My god, I think I would. I would
focus all my attention twelve hours left. I would go, yeah,
you get yeah, yeah, and I would be You'd find
the only difference would be then instead of washing the dishes,
I would just let them pile up. Aside from that,
it would be or that would be more poetic as
supposed to wash the dishes and put them away.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Can you imagine? Yeah, I could see a solemnly washing
the dishes as like as the weird light of the
World's end some green glowing you know, Chernobyl.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
As it comes, Yeah, it comes closer, and you're scrubbing.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Like nobly, nobly scrubbing. He missed the spot.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Oh my god, Mirichick is kind of like that would
be so stressful if you had, because I would be like,
I want a dinner party. That would be a really
hard occasion if there was someone that you didn't want
to see, like if there was some like social obligation,
like someone that ordinarily be like yeah, yeah, I know,
of course we're going to invite them or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, yeah, I mean I actually spent a lot of
time thinking about that, since not a lot of time,
but no, I mean end of the World plans just
the way the ranks would close, you know, closing up
ranks real fast and where secrets drop and you know
what I mean, like, well, it's force measure a little
(25:55):
bit right, like in force Measure.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Brilliant.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Basically Ski Resort family avalanche comes down. They're sitting there
at lunch. I mean, this is a spoiler, but of
course it does spoilers. The father bolts, right, and so
(26:22):
it's a visions people are about to die.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The mother and children duck onto the table. They're screaming.
The father bolts, and then I mean, it's so brilliant,
so jealous of that concept and perfect. The snow starts
to clear. Oh we're fine. Everyone realizes, Oh, that was
really scary, but we're going to be fine. And they
have to reckon with the fact that the patriarch fled.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
You just you just die. When you say things like that,
it just such joy, the extremness of the language. It's
just fled. Like that is why I dream of being
through the ages with you in different time period. Oh
my god, you being like he flew, he fled, You're confused.
Flew is a nice word. Also, Oh it flew. It
(27:10):
just flew over there.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Flew right out. Yeah, I mean I always it's always
the thing of how do you really act in a
crisis or an emergency? And I've always assumed I would,
you know, fears about you know, as we all know,
my my crushing anxiety about parents dying of course inevitable,
but like my own fears about how would I act
(27:33):
in What I'm trying to say is that I've been
forgot who was it told me that sometimes people with
heightened anxiety, like daily anxiety when there's actually a crisis,
are the ones that can kind of like, yeah, buckle
down and deal with it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And I have been preparing for the whole line, right
right right, and a couple of yeah, I had a
glimpse where I was like, well, I'm actually not.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I thought right now i'd be on the floor a
puddle and consolable or unable to a you know, and
I'm the one picking up a lunch baby.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
No, exactly, And you're prepared. I do think. I remember
one time this guy we were in high school hanging out. Mother,
Oh wow, what was it? Tell me?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Just hit my toe, hit my elbows so hard on
this chair, keep going, Oh my god, it's fine, right,
knock into ship, I knocked into something. What's god?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
My trick? I've gotten this to you when you've been
pain Oh you hit it and no, I go ten seconds.
I'm like countdown from ten and see how you feel.
It's like it just get through ten seconds. It'll be
better then, and it like you have done that for me,
and it does. It's already gone.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Okay, continue, there's still kind of a radiating pain, but
it's fine. It's dull.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Just a little touch point.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh the memory of pain.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Well, it's an interesting there's some ideas about like that
you can't truly remember it or something.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
It's like pain, pain is something there is something unreal,
like okay, now I'm just being like, but hitting my elbow,
it's like that kind of fleeting pain is bizarre. Yeah,
Or it's just like the reminder of having a body
like that is so startling, Like walk into.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Something pain in the brain, right, Like pain is you're
experiencing through the travel. Yeah, right, then it seems like
you should be able to outwit it, like and be
like that's a sensation.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Look at that. Yeah, I'm noticing that I'm having pain
instead of being or like yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
My radical acceptance of pain.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
My body has pain, instead of being like I have
pain or something like oh look how interesting my leg is.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Gone closing down ranks around emergency. Oh your parents running
to your parents dinner? Oh but just like yeah, how
long would I spend like how many hours would we
spend planning the food? I think you and me we
(30:10):
would balance it like, Okay, well we don't want to
plan so much that the dinner only lasts an hour, right,
he'd be like, no, the dinner we need to have
six hours start to finish.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It's I come now, we'll put the pasta water, we'll
start boiling the pasta now.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
But we'd also be like, well, it's going to take
me forty minutes to secure that cheese, right and so,
and it'd be like is it worth it? And I
think we'd be like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
imagine seven hours. Yeah, six is fine. It is fine.
I think we would, right, right or right. The fact
that it takes time to consider time, I guess is.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
My yeah, it's it's hell.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And now I've told you this probably about my father's
time management stuff, where he was tracking in days of
his early days of his business and probably still I
don't know, but tracking what he was doing with his time,
like down to the fifteen minutes mark and then putting
it in you know, to his graph or whatever, like
(31:06):
charting it and being like, okay, like you know, I
spent this much time on new business, you know, like
seeking out new business, this much time on admin, this
much time on you know, doing the actual work whatever,
and like and and basically like he did his system
and he realized, you we was spending too much time
on his time tracking the system revealed.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I love that. Couldn't you just like die for that?
So God, I just I have been struggling this week
with fantasies of the question of habits has been coming
up a lot in uh, particularly in the last like
number of years, not like it's new, but you know,
there's that book Atomic Habits, and I feel like eight
years ago there was a lot of talk about Ben
(31:54):
Franklin's habit tracker thing and.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Nerd.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I know, I know, but but but the only thing
that's kind of like disturbing about it is because I go, like,
I know, that's not how I live.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And it's easy to build a habit when all you
have is like you know, when there's like a chicken
screaming outside and you're like, I could go attend to
the chicken. I could toss this rock against that rock.
I could, like Ben Franklin, have sex, yeah, or I
could like write down something, or I could gaze, you know,
(32:33):
onto into the horizon. I'm not impressed by like pre
printing press habits.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, certainly, but Ben Franklin was not
pre printing press. God, You're like, you're like in the
thirteen hundreds.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
When when because like, sorry, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well atomic habits. Oh but I was saying living free
like and then, but the disturbing realization is like, you're
not habitless.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I love when I'm a complete air ahead, Yeah you're not.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
The hell is that? Like you actually can't escape it.
It's the question of are you pleased with what yours are? Like?
So I think of myself as living free, and yet
of course I am. You know my habits, what are they?
I habitually watch television at I television is fine, start
the morning with coffee, I mean whatever, It's.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Just I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt with the complete
obviously I'm going to talk about but this is what
the social media thing. Because I was thinking about how
I use my time as well recently. I was actually
forcing myself to write it down, like what are the
things I do the most? And I was like, oh
my god, well guess one of the top two things
I do the most look at my fucking phone. Yeah,
(33:55):
And that hit hard, and I have to say, I'm
three weeks tomorrow no phone. And I did log on
briefly to post something and then love it off and
like and then and get out. No and I got
in and got out, and it was it was really
clarifying to get in and get out. It gave me
hope for the future that I that I can continue
to use that system, because yeah, the time lost is harrowing.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
There's a there's an old self help book that is
like called something like how to Survive on twenty four
hours a day or something like that, I mean from
like nineteen oh one, and I read it years ago
and I was like, oh, what.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Do you mean how to survive like like how to
for how to live time.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
For hours a day. He's like he's a real like
bastard and pointing out like how like the average man
like you know, you know, wastes his life Like I
don't know, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Which is also rude. It's like just of course we're
going to waste time. We're not here to not waste time,
like absolutely, absolutely no, I mean, trivolities are the stuff
of life.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Although I always felt it was sort of rude, like
do you remember the whole thing. I think it's attributed
to John Lennon, like life's what happens when you're making
other plans.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah. John Lennon said that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
And it's it's sort of like it's easier to sort
of say that when your big life plans are being
the most massive major musician ever, do you know what
I mean, killing it? Yeah, like easy for him to
be like, it's actually the times between the tour yeah yeah, yeah,
versus I feel like the person's saying lives of the
(35:35):
stuff that happens when you're making other plans, their plans
have gone well, yes, correct, Like if you're trying to
get out of your life, you're trying to escape your
life into a new thing, get a new thing started.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I feel like I want to go higher. These
earthly these earthly achievements are they've lost something from me.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Right right. It's easy to renounce money when you have money,
blah blah blah. You know that holds if you're not
happy with what you're with, what your main plans are,
then it's a little bit annoying to have to like
savor the details or whatever. But one thing Carolyn Mace
did say this morning when I was listening to Entering
(36:16):
the Castle one of her audio lectures. It talks about
the work of Teresa of Avalon, etcetera, etcetera. She's like,
people come to my workshops and they want to be
told what's my highest potential, what's my greatest potential? Like
what am I here to do? Kind of thing? And
she's like, they want you know, great, big, huge, It's
how she always says it. She's like, they want to
upgrade their highest potential. They can't even function at their
(36:38):
lowest potential. Dawn, Okay, They're like, can't get out of bed,
they can't command their spirit to like forgive their friend
like I'm a CEO, but they're at a workshop asking
her yeahah yeah. And so there have been a couple
of times in my life like I remember her saying that,
and maybe, like what if I went the other way
(36:59):
that I than how I normally think, Like I normally think,
start from the biggest, most upstream, essential thing and work
from there. Like what if I went the other way
and was like, I'm gonna try to live at my
lowest potential. Well literally get my shit together around you know,
my laundry. But all I'm saying is that, Uh, there
(37:22):
was a period where once I was like, all right,
let's let's let's start with the basics. And it was
kind of interesting, basically, like to live my lowest potential
well and like and then kind of build off that.
I don't know because I'm always dismissing the small and
then and then I find myself absolutely crushed by mess.
You know what I mean. It's just whatever, We'll circle
(37:42):
these things again and again. We gotta go to break.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Well, I'm considering ping for an Air one membership. Well
I can't figure out the math though, of course.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
What are the numbers and whatever?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
One membership is two hundred dollars and which you guys
ten percent for the year and you get ten percent
off everything. All right, hold on, I'll do it for you, right, Okay, Well,
I go every forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
How often are you going?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So here's the thing. And this is something that I
chronically struggle with. So I go, and I'm spending a
lot in small purchases. So it's not like I'm going
and going, oh here's you know, it's like I rarely
spend over forty dollars in one go, but maybe I
do that, you know, six times. Like I'm bad at
understanding what the value.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Is of trying to look at.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
My credit card statement.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
It's not that hard it seems like it's Hell, it's
not that bad, I ad or you just added on
the downloaded and to excel.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Never could never could, never would.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
No, I feel you. But let me just think about this.
Two hundred dollars. It has to happen in order to
be in order for it to for you to be
making money, not losing money or whatever. Yeah, right, bless you.
You have to get two hundred dollars off. Okay, so
(39:33):
so you have to in getting ten percent off, you
have to save two hundred dollars. So you have to.
So it it's two hundred dollars ten percent of two thousand. Yeah,
So are you good? Kate?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Look at me, at me.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
She was rubbing her eyes and it just flew out
of you. Okay, you act like.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You know, yeah, oh yeah, ten percent? Yeah you know?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
So wait is that what am I trying to say?
Do you spend two thousand at air one?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I don't even know. No, this doesn't even make that
this is the year?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Should But if I spend two thousand in the year,
oh whatever, I'll forget this out tim kicking it down
the stream till another time.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Two hundreds.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I really I abuse the hot bar because like right now,
I just live so close to it, so it's like,
right now, I'm hungry.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Right, you could go over there and get a what
do you like to get it there?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I mean I cook, you know, I do cook. Of
course they do. They do it. They do a chicken nugget,
a coconut bread and a coconut flour chicken nugget.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
They do.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
They do good sushi, Yeah, they do know.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
They did that. Oh yeah, No, I mean I didn't
know they did a coconut flower they.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Do it breaded, yeah, and they do the salid Yeah.
They have Keto stuff for sure. And then they have
but oh, I don't know if it's a nugget because they'd.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Call it that if it was. So I'm thinking it's
coconut flour plus wheat flower.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
No, I don't think they're Keto. And you know, sometimes
I get it and I go, this is not great,
Like this is not But it's just the as we've said,
convenience is a killer convenience. We'll do everything out of the.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Devil lives now inside a convenience. The devil had to
look for a place to get.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Us, and it found its way home instantly.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
All of here. Yeah, yeah, olive here.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I feel like I'm really cheesy today. Food. Do you
feel this? I feel like I feel like I've been
continually saying things and I'm like, who's that? I get it?
Something else I don't even recall, but I feel nervous
or something. It's strange.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Well, we'll listen back and we'll cut anything we don't I.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know, I can't believe well chinks.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I bought Robert a headlamp.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, the Jinks, Oh my god, I need to rewatch
I the Jinks is so terrifying and so good. Where's mommy?
Mommy's on the roof, My mommy, I don't remember where's
He's talking about his mother, like on the roof? Yeah,
and like and his voice all, well, mommy's you know,
(42:27):
and it's like, yeah, he was spelling, Oh yeah, Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
And the letter of course of like Maybell or something
we talked.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
About on Christmas Poog we went live on the Instagram.
We talked about the staircase, but then didn't really dive deeper.
But I'm about to do it or rewatch. It's it's
deeply influential. The Stair's case is exquisite. And it's on
Netflix now maybe it has been. Who knows, never seen it.
I was saying, Michael, see hollow the luck, honey, Lightning
(42:55):
doesn't write it, does it? You're Michael Sea Hall set
under and then dead. His agents are going, you're kidding me.
Two hits, two hits like this.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Two hits and new Blood is it's a joy. It's
a recent uh Dexter additional season. We didn't know we
were going to get called Dexter new Blood. I just
love the world of Dexter. I love riding around in
his brain.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Sorry, I'm distracted because I have a cabinet on the way.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
What drawers?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Another one? It's happening, The office is happening. Okay, so no,
So actually I was on offer up and I almost
bought the set of drawers. And then I was at
my parents' house and I noticed this drawer, this drawer
set in my whole bedroom, and I said, do you
need this? My mother said absolutely not. So I'm having that.
It's brought here.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
That's exciting.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah wow, And so I'm going to have that. And
you know what's happening. I have to get a handyman
in here to help me hang a few things really,
you know.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
You know, haunting me. But the big thing I want
I want a big mirror. I want okay, I want mirrors,
dance mirrors so that when I'm when I'm doing my tracy.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Well, I mean, my dance mirror in my bedroom is
my dream. The thing that's.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Fucking with me is the anti tip technology. Okay, hm hmm,
you know, the whole secure this against the wall with
this thing. They're like, this mirror, don't worry, it comes
with anti tip technology, and it's like you can lean
this huge thing against the wall. I'm afraid of leans.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Of course because of also the cat.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, even though like my big bookshelves just stand there.
They're not secure to anything, and I'm like, not afraid.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
It's at maybe you should be. Actually we are an
earthquake country.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
But that Yeah, But then I start to break down
about whether or not I am you know, can I
safely mount the hardware? Can we trust that I'm choosing
your right you know, drill size to put the little
thing in that then the screw goes in. Do you
even know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Honestly?
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Anchors God, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Having to find the stud of the wad I mean,
I want to be able to do that. I really
really do.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I have a stud finder if you can imagine, wow,
but you can you know what you can do kind
of knock knock, knock and you'll hear the business stud.
I don't trust feel to do that. No, you really
feel it. It's like it's it's actually and then you
drill in and sometimes you hit it and but yeah,
I've gone through phases. It's one of those things where
(45:40):
I like don't believe it's real, Like like like I
remember I don't know early in my semi adult life,
like hanging shelves somewhere and just being like I'm not
the anchor. What is this now? Like I'm just screwing
this thing into the wall. It's fine, and then like
watching it slowly fall out of the wall, like refusing
(46:01):
to really find out what my dolls are made of.
That sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
That's the constant I feel like, that's the thing that
I'm always bucking is directions. Like I get so impatient
reading directions that I'll read the first three sentences and
I'm like uh huhh, and I'm just like no, I'll
just figure it out. I'll figure it out my way
and then it's like, no, there's just a way. It's
not intuitive. You just have to follow this direction and
it will. But I become so impatient and I become
overwhelmed with directions, and then I suffer in the long run.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Me accepting the truth of wall anchors, me accepting Okay,
I have to drill a hole, I have to tap
a wall anchor in, and then in goes my screw
like the once I accepted that, and it didn't seem
like something other people do.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Oh it's so freezing.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
I know, it was like, oh, no, that's something you do.
I do now. I guess that's so cool. And but
there was resistance because it's sort of like you know,
and they're it's it's the same to me as you know,
test a small amount on an inconspicuous area of your.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Garment, Oh yeah, or the inside of you or the back.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Ear wrist, whatever, you know. I'm like, no, just risk it.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Can you imagine like I didn't go to I didn't
go to CBS at three am for hair dye to
do a test and wait and wait. You know I
can't because I have an emotional problem. Yeah, yeah, and
I want to quick fix. Yes, and so I'm gonna
go with, well, I can't do anything that bad or
you know, they couldn't put it on the market if
(47:30):
it was that danger. I never trust I always. That's
the whole retinal to the water line thing, you know,
it's like.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
What they say, don't put it up to the water line.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I don't even know. I can't even remember.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
I feel like the retinal because what if people say
about retinal is that it's like it makes me very
sensitive to the sun right to the idea is that
it prevents acne and helps with lines with wrinkles.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Well, the sensitivity of the sun is not like, is
not being framed as a benefit.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
No, no, I mean that that's a problem. Like if
you're on retinal, you have to be really careful about
the sun.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah. Now, thankfully we already are, right, correct. I Mean
it's one of those things where it's like it feels
almost like now you can have the dog if you
promise you will feed it every day and pick up
its trash. Yeah, daddy, okay, yeah, yeah, I'll do it.
This is something I've seen on television. Yeah, but it's
almost like that, it's like, okay, you can have the
(48:23):
retinal if you are if you are vigilant about your
sun protection, because and this is what's scary to me,
the responsibility inherent. They're like, because if you don't, you'll
make your skin worse, like like if your extra sensitive
to the sun, then the sun damage will be worse.
And so it's like it's like, this is where advisors
come into play for me.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Right, right, I still struggle with wearing a hat on.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
I'll never forget a T shirt. Is only SPF ten.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Oh God, don't say it.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I know it's so it's so upsetting, isn't it wonderful?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Wonderful?
Speaker 1 (48:59):
There's a questionful do our windows protect us? I don't
think they do.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
They don't. And that's one of the things that's you know,
the hell, the realization that you're supposed to wear SPF
even if you're in the side. Never leave the home. Right,
We've talked about this. They say blue light you can
also damage the skin. So well, I'm just inside all day.
I'm like computerble guests, Well, honey, you're gonna want to
slop on some SPF thirty.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Just sit in front of your mac.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Just sit in front of your goddamn mac book and
watch the your feet.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, oh we we we've we did get a code
for light path to wellness like poog ten percent off
with yeah, very fancy all post on the stories, but
that's a deal. I was reading again about red light
and and using it as your ambient light at night
for a couple of hours before going to bed, and
I was like, okay, yeah, and oh you know what,
(49:50):
I you know what I just got. I'm so excited
about what and I mean not to you know, Oh
I forgot to tell you I had this is where
I waken the night. Let me just get this out. Okay.
I'm like, I'm struggling because I'm about to tell you
about a low carb chip and that makes me not
happy about who I am. Oh please, Okay, So there's
that number one, like the mystique you know, not that
there is any, but you know what I mean, right, Like,
(50:12):
oh great? And then secondly, as a result, would you
like hear the most vain possible response to Joan Didion's
death beyond like her work meaning a lot to me
as it does too many You.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Were like fin Spow, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I was like whatever, just looking at the pictures of
Joan didion, and I was like, when you realize there's
something that you've fucked up that cannot be turned back,
and mine was smiling in pictures.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I was like that she never saw Poe.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
I mean there are some I think where she is
very young, like when she's like young woman hot, whatever's
like wind blown, when when like I would try for
daddy my fool. Yeah, she's just like I'm a writer
and I'm looking at the camera and I just I
(51:09):
felt devastation. I felt devastation.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I'm not surprised about it.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
I was, Fuck, why didn' anyone tell me? Like, why
didn't I clock that you can do it? In nineteen
you can do Cut the fucking smiles. I wouldn't have
been walked walked all over. Guess what, folks, is the
last smile you're getting.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Out of me?
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Oh no, we love it Oka, I'm gonna bring it down.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
We love those pearly whites.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
I think this has been wonderful.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
We're at the hour mark. I think we should go, well, well.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Well, another conversation in the can, another day, another dollar
and the dollars spent. I love talking about death, me too.
You know, you know we're gonna bring a lot of that,
A lot of that here.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, it's haiving to go deeper with death. Great.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Well, Uprising is the chips I'm very excited about and
paid through the nose for, and I'm open to partnership
opportunities with Uprising chips. They're like bagel chips.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Arowon actually has an explosive keto cheesecake I was thinking
about for you.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Is it allylos or is it is it monk fruit
or is it your athrotoal? Because if it's your athrotal, I.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Think it's rythrotal.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
It has a cooling effect and I won't have it.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
No, there's no cooling effect.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Okay, some are more sensitive to it than others.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
No, no, no, I know that effect. I know that effect.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
This is not that Hello big good? Actually there's well maney, Well,
well yeah, I have some more bake goods coming coming
your way.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Well you also turned me on too, Lily's.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Peanut butter fact that you didn't know. Unv I want
one to write sugar free baby, Well, Stevia, Sweeten, I
love you, Bye bye?
Speaker 2 (52:55):
That what was poog? If you enjoyed Poog, please subscribe,
rate and review. If not, we will press charges,
Hi, I'm Kate Berlance, I'm Jacqueline Novak, And.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is poog, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive, fresh.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Two untamable intellects.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
This is our hobby, this is our hell, This is
our naked desire for free products. This is POOG. Today's
topics looselie.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Speaking retinal two hundred dollars, the Paul Bearer shuffle. Hello, Hey,
it's me. I say anything different about me today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, yeah, so the listener can't see, of course, But Jacqueline,
just before we started recording, showed me that she has
a zip, which for her is unheard of. So it's
a remarkable day for you to actually have a blemish,
a visible blemish.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Only unheard of, you know, in the lore of the podcast.
I feel right, it's.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's well, I've been looking at your face for years
and I've never seen a blemish.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, I'm covering rose Sha, of course, I think, although
that remains, but I don't. I've never minded my rosie.
I've never reminded it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
There's a lot of controversy in the Rosetia community. I
feel like people ascribe rosesha like I had. Dermatologists recently
be like.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh, whether it's real or not? Right?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, no, no, no, she was like, she was like,
maybe that's rose siha. And I'm like, well would you
know you know?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, well, I had a derm say it's acne, and
I don't mean saying what you have in your skin,
Jaqueline is acne. I'm him going Rose SHA's acne?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh wow wow.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And then yesterday I was reading, well, I was reading that,
so a couple of things. One, well, yesterday I was
googling retinal, purge, retnall, breakout, whatever, because I finally tried
my tretonoen.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Okay, see, I'm so glad we're getting into this because
I literally fear I don't know about retinal. I don't
know about it. I feel left out. I remember using
it a little bit in my like twenties, like my
mother had some and I and I was like, please
give it to me until she gave me some. But
then I stopped and I never returned. And now I'm
feeling the anxiety. Have I destroyed my life by not
(02:11):
using retinal for the last you know, six years?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
No, I don't think so, I think. Sorry, I'm just
noticing a little redness. So I'm grabbing what was that
concealed eyeshadow? It's actually eyeshadow primary. You know this old
two faced Uh, it's one of these babies, and it's oh,
what is this two faced shadow insurance or twenty four
plus hour anti crease? I keep your joy, keeping your
(02:37):
eyes shadow on. I have to get this lipstick off immediately.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You know why why?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It's it's the exact color that makes my oh so
pearly white teeth have a hint of another color to them.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Teeth whitening actually something we've never discussed, and I have curiosity.
I did cress white strips as like a thirteen year old, yeah,
for like two days and then gave up. But now,
did you have pain? I think I did experience some sensitivity,
but I don't recall.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I was like, I was flat on my back screaming.
I was like literally, and you know, I'm not like that,
Like I'm like very like stoic, you know, or or
just yeah, like for beauty. Yeah, like I was. I
was trying this laser thing on my face. This nera
(03:28):
was and I was trying, and I'm like, and to me,
it feels like you know what what laser feels like,
which is, to me, feels like a burning needle, like
a needle that's lit on fire, piercing. Now, while in
one sense that sounds horrifying, might be better than a
(03:48):
cold needle, you know, that might actually make super sensation. Yeah,
but I I turned to Chris once again, always turning
to him, and I was like, you could never withstand
what I was stand for beauty or whatever. You know,
of course, I mean it's like it's the unspoken thing,
like I mean, we all know, like but literally like drag,
(04:10):
you know, an exfoliant across the average you know, heteroman's face.
I'm just I'm just talking, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, of course they don't know what we do. So
the exhausted femme is a favorite archetype of mine and
one that I lean into at every chance.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
That's genius, the exhausted femme.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You're damn right, I'm tired, Honey, You're damn right, I'm tired.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
You're right, I'm tired. Well, you know what I've I'm
pretty interested in people who and we'll get to the retinal,
but I'm I'm pretty interested and compelled by people who
truly put on a face oh yeah, and that's their
face to the world and the concealer with the and
I'm actually impressed by it.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, well, what's the It's the classic trope, right if
the woman who goes to sleep with the full face
of makeup lest there be an emergency in the night
and the firemen show up and she's, you know, unpresentable.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Meanwhile, I've gone the other route. I'm like this idea
of stained underwear, which you know and you know, oh,
you don't want to wear stained underwear. What if you
get in a car accident. It's like, well, first of all,
glad that that's what you'll be thinking about, mother, And
second of all, I mean my mother never said that explicitly, No,
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Where was I also like, what movie is that in?
That's so familiar?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I know it's I think it's I think it's it's
brilliant fifties concern.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And then it's a it's a brilliant idea. It's it's
a it's a brilliant horror distilled to something that's very
tangible and real. It's of course, you know, and I'm
not going to get into ways of seeing in John Berger.
We all know it, right, Yeah, but a line was
haunted me from that text was you know, a woman,
what is it like even at her father's funeral she
is aware of being watched or whatever. And it's like, yeah,
(05:53):
you can't even you can't even that image of like
a woman weeping over her father or whoever's grave and
having to have like a cute dress on is So.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Do you have a lot of experience weeping at funerals?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And I like, do you have you loved this question?
I don't have a lot, lucky me, but I've I
recall I've had a couple of weeps. Yeah, how about you?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, I mean there's been some some sort of tragic
deaths in the family that you know, have that quality
at the funeral that is not just.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
No, it's not just the morning.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's the life well lived. You know, you know death
is always said, but and but there, you know, it
can all be very six feet underish to kind of
like to eat after a funeral. The way that feels
to me is so ecstatic, you know what, Like, well,
there's two versions. There's one which is they're like I
want to go get a burger okay? Or is that
(07:04):
which I love? And then like entering a diner or
something and just under the context of of death, then
being in a diner and ordering your favorite stuff whatever.
Mm God, that's good. And then the other is sort
of this disturbing but oddly comforting like bagels at the
synagogue thing. I've experienced a couple of times, the thing that, yeah,
(07:27):
have you ever been a pallbearer?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
No, but my eyes are widening because my I once
watched my father be a pallbearer And then I you know,
kind of the celebrity of that, like, well, my dad
was a pallbear you know, did your dad? Well?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
The celebrity at the funerals one of my absolute favorite topics. Okay,
because the closer you are to the death, the bigger
your celebristatus.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Your day is your special day.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, and like fighting, you know, of course, the I
mean I remember, yeah, like elbowing. I remember like elbowing
past people like kind of like, you know, I'm the cousin,
I'm the granddaughter, right, I mean status fucking respect, Yeah,
grief based status is major. And then oh, my god,
I've been in Paul Barr a couple of times, and oh,
(08:14):
it's like it's like one of these things in life
where I'm like, how is this, Like how is this
always happening? Because I felt like we're gonna drop this thing.
Like I was like, this is not like me and
my cousin's holding the coffin, which is like what it's
been a couple.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Times, and like we're not strong people who can't give
it to the kids.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, it's given to the kids. And I remember specifically,
I think it was I think it was my grandfather's funeral.
But we were like, you know, holding the coffin and
having to bring it right over the hole in the ground,
and like there were these planks, these wooden planks that
were kind of there along the side of it. To
(08:59):
I don't know, so that that's what you walk on,
these planks so you're not on loose ground or something
like you're gonna fall in. And it was like rattling
planks as we're all carrying something way too heavy for us.
And I always think of it in my mind, like
I have a name for it's a pall bearer shuffle. Okay,
(09:19):
it's very specific.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
So like to me, it's like I hold something, I'll
hold something like uncomfortably like too big, Okay, cause it's.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It's like you have to to be clear. It's like swift,
rapid movements of the feet. So it's not the covers
as much gund as possible.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, yes, rabbit shuffling and like we've seen in you know,
I always like a movie where a corpse rolls out
of a coffin. That's like like I'm just like yeah,
like I'm in yeah, and it's yeah, it's just it
felt really, It's just I don't think there should be
such high risk, should we really be?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
No, no, no that that and by the way, and then
you're potentially putting imagine the weight no pun intended of
that on somebody like I dropped the body. I mean
it's just the horror of that seems like a huge risk.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Are you aware of you know, so Jews Jewish, there's
an idea that the coffin should be plain simple wood
body cedar. Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Maybe it's not cedar and look at cedar cedars so fragrant.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, theedar wi almost yeah, like keep them all?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
How do you soy? Yeaha hater? Yeah, what's your experience
with open casket?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Well that's the thing as so as a Jew, same
thing you don't really get the open casket generally.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Thank God.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And so the only time you've experienced open casket are
other people's relatives. And I mean open casket is like
wild a psychedelic.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I mean, I've only seen it once, but I was
a child and I remember going with my parents to
this funeral and then there was the open casket and
there was the person and it was like, yeah, just psychedelic, unimaginable,
and I wanted to run. And of course what I
wanted to do is just run and stare. I wanted
to stay. I wanted to be alone in a room
(11:42):
with the casket ideally to be able to just freely stare.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But you can't have to not have to perform like.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
What, yeah, I know they're dead and that that's them,
Like what could possibly be the problem?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There is no I mean to me, there's no greater
intimacy because then to see someone's dead body, right.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Oh my god, I'm imagining that you like you, I
would allow you to see my dead body. That is
the ultimate vulnerability.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
My cousin Rachel once said, like, because at one of
our family member's funerals, like you know, we were taking
turns throwing dirt on the grave, but but actually like
actually filling in the hole completely, like shoveling it right,
because that's like I don't know again, I think that's
part of the Jewish thing, is like cool, there's like
the gesture version, like everyone's supposed to throw some dirt
(12:35):
on actual there's the actual and I like really took
actually no, I think yeah, I like like really took
to it and found it like like I'm like it
was six feet under yeah, like influenced, but I was
like like, yeah, like this sectually feels like sort of
sacred and sort of beautiful. I agree completely, And even
(12:56):
though it's I remember my grandfather, non Jew, talking about
experiencing that at the Jewish funerals and being like god,
you know, like so horrifying, like dirt hitting the casket,
and I'm like, no, I love it. And so I
don't know. I took something and was like really getting
into it, and I was like working. I was like
shoveling intensely, like like like I'm gonna finish it up
(13:17):
with the boys because there is filling crass about like well,
let's walkup, like let's head back to blah blah blah,
these guys will finish filling it.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
In the other women kind of with their umbrellas arms linked,
kind of walk away towards the buffet and the men
are left.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, umbrellas and arms linked is genius. Yeah, it's like
to finish the job. Like it's very weird to walk away.
But anyways, and my cousin Rachel was like, like saw
it and was like, I want you to do that
for me one day or is this something you know
what I mean? Oh imagine me Like, well, you know,
(13:56):
I was listening to Carolyn Mace this morning. Carolyn Mace,
as we all know, mysass, is one of my absolute favorites.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Earlier today jack Can texted me I woke up listening
to Mace and I didn't know what she meant who
And then you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, please, I'm absolutely
clear because I don't have experience with her.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And she was just talking about, you know, our absolute
denial of death and and our refusal.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
To well, the West failed us.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I think of you know, acknowledged death and and
that we're just you know, trying to live longer and longer,
but but trying to look just I forget what she
got it. It's just like the absolute rudeness to our own bodies,
like we asked them to endure, We like do all
this ship to make them endure, and then like absolutely
hate and disgrace the signs of their endurance. It's like, oh,
(14:44):
it's so rude.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's so rude.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
When like you know, and it's it's uh, it's not
like the question of women and aging is not uh,
is not like if you think you've covered it, you
still have it. It's like endlessly it's not not fresh. No, no,
like yeah, we know women, Oh, after a certain age,
(15:11):
they're tossed out like trash, like like there's more to
be said. M we just have to develop a space for.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
And she really she I was saying, and I say
her name, but I think she would have no trouble
with me attributing this to her brilliant writer. And I'm
honored in shocked to say a friend, Sheila Hetty, I
was talking to her recently and she was like, it's
just true. Women become more powerful with age. She's like,
it's just the truth, like more powerful, more beautiful, more
(15:41):
and it's just it is I believe it.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, Well I've heard I've also read things about specifically
like like you know, women who fear men of pause
and then like and then I mean I speak. I
can imagine people listening going there's it's nothing like that whatever.
But I'm just saying I've read a couple of things
where like the women being like, you know, I was
so afraid of this this and this noess, but actually
(16:08):
it freed.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Me God totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And I read in one of these period sort of
books that I was reading, the about the cycles and
stuff like that, kind of talking about like being free
from the monthly cycle, allowing you to kind of like
live this larger like live a larger like m just larger,
(16:33):
like you're in a different cycle, like the big one. Yeah, yeah,
like you're in the the waning moon of that.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
No, it's it's it's truly fascinating to think about.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
We need to start visualizing now, so it's not an
after the fact thing.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Menopause.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, and deeper like us at ninety eight, oh, dancing
wildly or not dancing wildly or like barely moving but
you know, clinking a martini. Whatever it is, doesn't it
doesn't have to be defying. It could be like right,
but just well, because that's exactly creating images, creating interesting story.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's enough. My god. Absolutely, yeah, you're right, because it's
always like the aging woman, right, It's like, look at her,
you'd never know she's seventy four. Look at her lifting
his weights, look at that, and it's like, fuck you
what about just yea, what if she's like having Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
My mom always she's very like she's she's like, you know,
like we're all gonna die. Like she's been saying it
since twelve.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You know. I feel lucky that my parents also have
talked about death. My dad has always been like I
was always kind of like like yeah, And I even
remember one time him kind of slapping down the will
on the table, like the will like you know, like
power of attorney, like you got, you know obviously like
unplug me, you know, like that kind of stuff. And
(17:57):
I like kind of the the casual nature of that
is really freeing. And and I totally lost. But oh
my mom, I remember during COVID as I say this,
if it's over, I met like early COVID, pre vaccine, yeah,
pre vaccine, COVID being a very concern for their their
safety obviously, and my mom kind of being like oh God,
(18:20):
and you know, she was very anxious, but she's like,
if we get it, we die, we die, you know.
So it's like it's like if we die.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
We die almost like what what has become the sort
of thinking is this kind of idea of like, well
I only want to die on my term.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Right or avoid death at all costs. And it's like, well,
avoid all we can, we can try to not die,
and we do usually through very there's mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You're always bargaining, making a bargain, like like you're always
saying what you're willing to do, like how much you're willing.
Like some people I don't know don't wear seatbelts and
that's the bargain and they're making with life. They're like
yeah that always for me, that's not a worthwhile bargain
to me too.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I always I'm maddened by that.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
What's his name?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I got to protect a career, if not yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Well, and I feel like I've talked about this recently,
but also protect the other people in the car. You
not wearing a seatbelt can kill someone else. Say that's
what you have your their body flies forward, it kills you.
So That's what I say when I get one of
these seat belt people who tries to act like they're
only hurting themself, you know, or not hurting themselves. God,
I guess there's just this. I guess like part of
(19:33):
my way of putting off the idea of death is
I imagine like as if like I'll be so old. It's
like it's like, all right, I'm like, oh, let's just
try to be as old as possible. Right, you start there,
and then you got to look at that and go
why why is that what I want? And it's like, oh,
because if I'm as old as possible, I won't be
me anymore. And that's almost like I'm not dying. It's
like someone else is dying and it's like, nope, bitch,
(19:57):
that'll be you right there. Continuous consciousness from me, You're
to there, just the way you know, your your consciousness
has been continuous since childhood. Like now, yes, childhood feels
far away, but also does it I don't know. I
guess that's really the horror is that it's going to
be you and you, It's going to be you even
(20:17):
at twenty. Yeah, I mean that's why it's like maybe
it's superior. For the mind to go before the body
is what I'm saying. No, no, I mean the desire
to have a clean way out. I don't know. It
seems like sudden death is the answer.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I would hope to the mind going first disturbs me more.
But yes, at sudden death, I think the bust to
the head, the coconut to the top of the head.
Imagine both of us die in the next week.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Oh well, well, yeah, I mean, it's.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Your It's hard for me not to quote your genius
joke here.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
The big problem for me with death is that I
and this is why. Well, it's all it's all my
fucking show. So we'll just leave it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I believe it. Okay, Well we should go to break.
When we come back, we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I'm gonna show, folks. Tickets are on sale, Okay, all
months in Los Angeles. Okay, Tuesdays.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And we're back. Yeah yeah, what no, no, no, I'm just
just leaving my death. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh. I had a major realization the other night. Gummy induced,
I mean, well not gummy induced. I got news for you, folks.
There is no notion inside of a weed. Gummy A
gummy yeah, still has to happen in your head, of course,
So what was it? Give it to me still fresh insights.
I had this like moment about and it's you know
(21:56):
how the things that are the most profound are the
most obvious, blah blah. Okay, so I'm like, this might,
this might not, this might sound like nothing, but I
saw it in a way that felt like something which
was Okay, your life as a substance time that could
run out the bottle of shower jel that you're afraid
to use whatever. Yeah, right, And I was thinking about like,
(22:17):
live your life, live live your life. Juicet juice at
juice it right, And in order to do that you
have to well you could either be like a you know,
a raving spiritual loon, right, just like in pure present tense,
just whirling about an ecstasy. Right. I guess that is
an option. But otherwise, you know, there has to be
(22:39):
a certain amount of like thinking about your life in
order to make the most use of it. Right, Yeah,
there has to be some arguably, there's some thinking, some
planning something.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I mean, you can't just got a raw nerve. You
can't just be ecstatically rolling on the front lawn coming because.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
First of all, like what home are you in if
you haven't you know, like there are some basics to
be taken care of survival wise, right, so so, but
but even settings like that, even just trying to live
a life well okay, like take some time to like
work shit out psychologically for yourself anyway, It's just this
moment where I realized, like that there's this ongoing bargain
(23:22):
where I go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna allocate
some of the time I have towards making another time
in my life better mm hmm. And in order and
in doing that, I'm continually I'm shrinking the amount of
time that I'll have to enjoy the thing. But I'm
still i still think that's the right choice. So it's
(23:46):
but it's weird. It's weird because I could suddenly see
it like this line and I'm taking It's like I'm
taking some of the thread or the rope. I'm using
some of the slack. It's like I'm depleting yet purposely.
It's like cutting more hair to get the bangs straight,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
No, it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
It's like there's something it's like the metaphor's not there.
But I just I saw it very clearly, and it
wasn't just necess so you got all their life and
the president you gott to throw it all out the
window and whatever. It was like. So, we were talking
a couple of weeks ago about oh, you have one
day left to live or whatever, right, and we're like,
it's dinner. It's dinner. Of course, it's it's dinner. We
plan right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Now if you and me are like, okay, we have
you know, we have twelve hours left to.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Live, I'm at the market immediately.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Do you think we're not spending one hour of that
crying planning the dinner, you know, choosing the foods?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Right? Oh? My god, I think I would. I would
focus all my attention twelve hours left. I would go, yeah,
you get yeah, yeah, and I would be You'd find
the only difference would be then instead of washing the dishes,
I would just let them pile up. Aside from that,
it would be or that would be more poetic as
supposed to wash the dishes and put them away.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Can you imagine? Yeah, I could see a solemnly washing
the dishes as like as the weird light of the
World's end some green glowing you know, Chernobyl.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
As it comes, Yeah, it comes closer, and you're scrubbing.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Like nobly, nobly scrubbing. He missed the spot.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Oh my god, Mirichick is kind of like that would
be so stressful if you had, because I would be like,
I want a dinner party. That would be a really
hard occasion if there was someone that you didn't want
to see, like if there was some like social obligation,
like someone that ordinarily be like yeah, yeah, I know,
of course we're going to invite them or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, yeah, I mean I actually spent a lot of
time thinking about that, since not a lot of time,
but no, I mean end of the World plans just
the way the ranks would close, you know, closing up
ranks real fast and where secrets drop and you know
what I mean, like, well, it's force measure a little
(25:55):
bit right, like in force Measure.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Brilliant.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Basically Ski Resort family avalanche comes down. They're sitting there
at lunch. I mean, this is a spoiler, but of
course it does spoilers. The father bolts, right, and so
(26:22):
it's a visions people are about to die.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The mother and children duck onto the table. They're screaming.
The father bolts, and then I mean, it's so brilliant,
so jealous of that concept and perfect. The snow starts
to clear. Oh we're fine. Everyone realizes, Oh, that was
really scary, but we're going to be fine. And they
have to reckon with the fact that the patriarch fled.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
You just you just die. When you say things like that,
it just such joy, the extremness of the language. It's
just fled. Like that is why I dream of being
through the ages with you in different time period. Oh
my god, you being like he flew, he fled, You're confused.
Flew is a nice word. Also, Oh it flew. It
(27:10):
just flew over there.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Flew right out. Yeah, I mean I always it's always
the thing of how do you really act in a
crisis or an emergency? And I've always assumed I would,
you know, fears about you know, as we all know,
my my crushing anxiety about parents dying of course inevitable,
but like my own fears about how would I act
(27:33):
in What I'm trying to say is that I've been
forgot who was it told me that sometimes people with
heightened anxiety, like daily anxiety when there's actually a crisis,
are the ones that can kind of like, yeah, buckle
down and deal with it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
And I have been preparing for the whole line, right
right right, and a couple of yeah, I had a
glimpse where I was like, well, I'm actually not.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I thought right now i'd be on the floor a
puddle and consolable or unable to a you know, and
I'm the one picking up a lunch baby.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
No, exactly, And you're prepared. I do think. I remember
one time this guy we were in high school hanging out. Mother,
Oh wow, what was it? Tell me?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Just hit my toe, hit my elbows so hard on
this chair, keep going, Oh my god, it's fine, right,
knock into ship, I knocked into something. What's god?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
My trick? I've gotten this to you when you've been
pain Oh you hit it and no, I go ten seconds.
I'm like countdown from ten and see how you feel.
It's like it just get through ten seconds. It'll be
better then, and it like you have done that for me,
and it does. It's already gone.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Okay, continue, there's still kind of a radiating pain, but
it's fine. It's dull.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Just a little touch point.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh the memory of pain.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Well, it's an interesting there's some ideas about like that
you can't truly remember it or something.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
It's like pain, pain is something there is something unreal,
like okay, now I'm just being like, but hitting my elbow,
it's like that kind of fleeting pain is bizarre. Yeah,
Or it's just like the reminder of having a body
like that is so startling, Like walk into.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Something pain in the brain, right, Like pain is you're
experiencing through the travel. Yeah, right, then it seems like
you should be able to outwit it, like and be
like that's a sensation.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Look at that. Yeah, I'm noticing that I'm having pain
instead of being or like yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
My radical acceptance of pain.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
My body has pain, instead of being like I have
pain or something like oh look how interesting my leg is.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Gone closing down ranks around emergency. Oh your parents running
to your parents dinner? Oh but just like yeah, how
long would I spend like how many hours would we
spend planning the food? I think you and me we
(30:10):
would balance it like, Okay, well we don't want to
plan so much that the dinner only lasts an hour, right,
he'd be like, no, the dinner we need to have
six hours start to finish.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
It's I come now, we'll put the pasta water, we'll
start boiling the pasta now.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
But we'd also be like, well, it's going to take
me forty minutes to secure that cheese, right and so,
and it'd be like is it worth it? And I
think we'd be like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
imagine seven hours. Yeah, six is fine. It is fine.
I think we would, right, right or right. The fact
that it takes time to consider time, I guess is.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
My yeah, it's it's hell.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And now I've told you this probably about my father's
time management stuff, where he was tracking in days of
his early days of his business and probably still I
don't know, but tracking what he was doing with his time,
like down to the fifteen minutes mark and then putting
it in you know, to his graph or whatever, like
(31:06):
charting it and being like, okay, like you know, I
spent this much time on new business, you know, like
seeking out new business, this much time on admin, this
much time on you know, doing the actual work whatever,
and like and and basically like he did his system
and he realized, you we was spending too much time
on his time tracking the system revealed.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I love that. Couldn't you just like die for that?
So God, I just I have been struggling this week
with fantasies of the question of habits has been coming
up a lot in uh, particularly in the last like
number of years, not like it's new, but you know,
there's that book Atomic Habits, and I feel like eight
years ago there was a lot of talk about Ben
(31:54):
Franklin's habit tracker thing and.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Nerd.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I know, I know, but but but the only thing
that's kind of like disturbing about it is because I go, like,
I know, that's not how I live.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And it's easy to build a habit when all you
have is like you know, when there's like a chicken
screaming outside and you're like, I could go attend to
the chicken. I could toss this rock against that rock.
I could, like Ben Franklin, have sex, yeah, or I
could like write down something, or I could gaze, you know,
(32:33):
onto into the horizon. I'm not impressed by like pre
printing press habits.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, certainly, but Ben Franklin was not
pre printing press. God, You're like, you're like in the
thirteen hundreds.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
When when because like, sorry, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well atomic habits. Oh but I was saying living free
like and then, but the disturbing realization is like, you're
not habitless.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I love when I'm a complete air ahead, Yeah you're not.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
The hell is that? Like you actually can't escape it.
It's the question of are you pleased with what yours are? Like?
So I think of myself as living free, and yet
of course I am. You know my habits, what are they?
I habitually watch television at I television is fine, start
the morning with coffee, I mean whatever, It's.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Just I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt with the complete
obviously I'm going to talk about but this is what
the social media thing. Because I was thinking about how
I use my time as well recently. I was actually
forcing myself to write it down, like what are the
things I do the most? And I was like, oh
my god, well guess one of the top two things
I do the most look at my fucking phone. Yeah,
(33:55):
And that hit hard, and I have to say, I'm
three weeks tomorrow no phone. And I did log on
briefly to post something and then love it off and
like and then and get out. No and I got
in and got out, and it was it was really
clarifying to get in and get out. It gave me
hope for the future that I that I can continue
to use that system, because yeah, the time lost is harrowing.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
There's a there's an old self help book that is
like called something like how to Survive on twenty four
hours a day or something like that, I mean from
like nineteen oh one, and I read it years ago
and I was like, oh, what.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Do you mean how to survive like like how to
for how to live time.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
For hours a day. He's like he's a real like
bastard and pointing out like how like the average man
like you know, you know, wastes his life Like I
don't know, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Which is also rude. It's like just of course we're
going to waste time. We're not here to not waste time,
like absolutely, absolutely no, I mean, trivolities are the stuff
of life.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Although I always felt it was sort of rude, like
do you remember the whole thing. I think it's attributed
to John Lennon, like life's what happens when you're making
other plans.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah. John Lennon said that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
And it's it's sort of like it's easier to sort
of say that when your big life plans are being
the most massive major musician ever, do you know what
I mean, killing it? Yeah, like easy for him to
be like, it's actually the times between the tour yeah yeah, yeah,
versus I feel like the person's saying lives of the
(35:35):
stuff that happens when you're making other plans, their plans
have gone well, yes, correct, Like if you're trying to
get out of your life, you're trying to escape your
life into a new thing, get a new thing started.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I feel like I want to go higher. These
earthly these earthly achievements are they've lost something from me.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Right right. It's easy to renounce money when you have money,
blah blah blah. You know that holds if you're not
happy with what you're with, what your main plans are,
then it's a little bit annoying to have to like
savor the details or whatever. But one thing Carolyn Mace
did say this morning when I was listening to Entering
(36:16):
the Castle one of her audio lectures. It talks about
the work of Teresa of Avalon, etcetera, etcetera. She's like,
people come to my workshops and they want to be
told what's my highest potential, what's my greatest potential? Like
what am I here to do? Kind of thing? And
she's like, they want you know, great, big, huge, It's
how she always says it. She's like, they want to
upgrade their highest potential. They can't even function at their
(36:38):
lowest potential. Dawn, Okay, They're like, can't get out of bed,
they can't command their spirit to like forgive their friend
like I'm a CEO, but they're at a workshop asking
her yeahah yeah. And so there have been a couple
of times in my life like I remember her saying that,
and maybe, like what if I went the other way
(36:59):
that I than how I normally think, Like I normally think,
start from the biggest, most upstream, essential thing and work
from there. Like what if I went the other way
and was like, I'm gonna try to live at my
lowest potential. Well literally get my shit together around you know,
my laundry. But all I'm saying is that, Uh, there
(37:22):
was a period where once I was like, all right,
let's let's let's start with the basics. And it was
kind of interesting, basically, like to live my lowest potential
well and like and then kind of build off that.
I don't know because I'm always dismissing the small and
then and then I find myself absolutely crushed by mess.
You know what I mean. It's just whatever, We'll circle
(37:42):
these things again and again. We gotta go to break.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
And we're back.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Well, I'm considering ping for an Air one membership. Well
I can't figure out the math though, of course.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
What are the numbers and whatever?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
One membership is two hundred dollars and which you guys
ten percent for the year and you get ten percent
off everything. All right, hold on, I'll do it for you, right, Okay, Well,
I go every forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
How often are you going?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
So here's the thing. And this is something that I
chronically struggle with. So I go, and I'm spending a
lot in small purchases. So it's not like I'm going
and going, oh here's you know, it's like I rarely
spend over forty dollars in one go, but maybe I
do that, you know, six times. Like I'm bad at
understanding what the value.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Is of trying to look at.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
My credit card statement.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
It's not that hard it seems like it's Hell, it's
not that bad, I ad or you just added on
the downloaded and to excel.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Never could never could, never would.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
No, I feel you. But let me just think about this.
Two hundred dollars. It has to happen in order to
be in order for it to for you to be
making money, not losing money or whatever. Yeah, right, bless you.
You have to get two hundred dollars off. Okay, so
(39:33):
so you have to in getting ten percent off, you
have to save two hundred dollars. So you have to.
So it it's two hundred dollars ten percent of two thousand. Yeah,
So are you good? Kate?
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Look at me, at me.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
She was rubbing her eyes and it just flew out
of you. Okay, you act like.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You know, yeah, oh yeah, ten percent? Yeah you know?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
So wait is that what am I trying to say?
Do you spend two thousand at air one?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
I don't even know. No, this doesn't even make that
this is the year?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Should But if I spend two thousand in the year,
oh whatever, I'll forget this out tim kicking it down
the stream till another time.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Two hundreds.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I really I abuse the hot bar because like right now,
I just live so close to it, so it's like,
right now, I'm hungry.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Right, you could go over there and get a what
do you like to get it there?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I mean I cook, you know, I do cook. Of
course they do. They do it. They do a chicken nugget,
a coconut bread and a coconut flour chicken nugget.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
They do.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
They do good sushi, Yeah, they do know.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
They did that. Oh yeah, No, I mean I didn't
know they did a coconut flower they.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Do it breaded, yeah, and they do the salid Yeah.
They have Keto stuff for sure. And then they have
but oh, I don't know if it's a nugget because they'd.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Call it that if it was. So I'm thinking it's
coconut flour plus wheat flower.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
No, I don't think they're Keto. And you know, sometimes
I get it and I go, this is not great,
Like this is not But it's just the as we've said,
convenience is a killer convenience. We'll do everything out of the.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Devil lives now inside a convenience. The devil had to
look for a place to get.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Us, and it found its way home instantly.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
All of here. Yeah, yeah, olive here.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I feel like I'm really cheesy today. Food. Do you
feel this? I feel like I feel like I've been
continually saying things and I'm like, who's that? I get it?
Something else I don't even recall, but I feel nervous
or something. It's strange.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Well, we'll listen back and we'll cut anything we don't I.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know, I can't believe well chinks.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I bought Robert a headlamp.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, the Jinks, Oh my god, I need to rewatch
I the Jinks is so terrifying and so good. Where's mommy?
Mommy's on the roof, My mommy, I don't remember where's
He's talking about his mother, like on the roof? Yeah,
and like and his voice all, well, mommy's you know,
(42:27):
and it's like, yeah, he was spelling, Oh yeah, Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
And the letter of course of like Maybell or something
we talked.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
About on Christmas Poog we went live on the Instagram.
We talked about the staircase, but then didn't really dive deeper.
But I'm about to do it or rewatch. It's it's
deeply influential. The Stair's case is exquisite. And it's on
Netflix now maybe it has been. Who knows, never seen it.
I was saying, Michael, see hollow the luck, honey, Lightning
(42:55):
doesn't write it, does it? You're Michael Sea Hall set
under and then dead. His agents are going, you're kidding me.
Two hits, two hits like this.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Two hits and new Blood is it's a joy. It's
a recent uh Dexter additional season. We didn't know we
were going to get called Dexter new Blood. I just
love the world of Dexter. I love riding around in
his brain.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Sorry, I'm distracted because I have a cabinet on the way.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
What drawers?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Another one? It's happening, The office is happening. Okay, so no,
So actually I was on offer up and I almost
bought the set of drawers. And then I was at
my parents' house and I noticed this drawer, this drawer
set in my whole bedroom, and I said, do you
need this? My mother said absolutely not. So I'm having that.
It's brought here.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
That's exciting.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah wow, And so I'm going to have that. And
you know what's happening. I have to get a handyman
in here to help me hang a few things really,
you know.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
You know, haunting me. But the big thing I want
I want a big mirror. I want okay, I want mirrors,
dance mirrors so that when I'm when I'm doing my tracy.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Well, I mean, my dance mirror in my bedroom is
my dream. The thing that's.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Fucking with me is the anti tip technology. Okay, hm hmm,
you know, the whole secure this against the wall with
this thing. They're like, this mirror, don't worry, it comes
with anti tip technology, and it's like you can lean
this huge thing against the wall. I'm afraid of leans.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Of course because of also the cat.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, even though like my big bookshelves just stand there.
They're not secure to anything, and I'm like, not afraid.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
It's at maybe you should be. Actually we are an
earthquake country.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
But that Yeah, But then I start to break down
about whether or not I am you know, can I
safely mount the hardware? Can we trust that I'm choosing
your right you know, drill size to put the little
thing in that then the screw goes in. Do you
even know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Honestly?
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Anchors God, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Having to find the stud of the wad I mean,
I want to be able to do that. I really
really do.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I have a stud finder if you can imagine, wow,
but you can you know what you can do kind
of knock knock, knock and you'll hear the business stud.
I don't trust feel to do that. No, you really
feel it. It's like it's it's actually and then you
drill in and sometimes you hit it and but yeah,
I've gone through phases. It's one of those things where
(45:40):
I like don't believe it's real, Like like like I
remember I don't know early in my semi adult life,
like hanging shelves somewhere and just being like I'm not
the anchor. What is this now? Like I'm just screwing
this thing into the wall. It's fine, and then like
watching it slowly fall out of the wall, like refusing
(46:01):
to really find out what my dolls are made of.
That sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
That's the constant I feel like, that's the thing that
I'm always bucking is directions. Like I get so impatient
reading directions that I'll read the first three sentences and
I'm like uh huhh, and I'm just like no, I'll
just figure it out. I'll figure it out my way
and then it's like, no, there's just a way. It's
not intuitive. You just have to follow this direction and
it will. But I become so impatient and I become
overwhelmed with directions, and then I suffer in the long run.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Me accepting the truth of wall anchors, me accepting Okay,
I have to drill a hole, I have to tap
a wall anchor in, and then in goes my screw
like the once I accepted that, and it didn't seem
like something other people do.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Oh it's so freezing.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
I know, it was like, oh, no, that's something you do.
I do now. I guess that's so cool. And but
there was resistance because it's sort of like you know,
and they're it's it's the same to me as you know,
test a small amount on an inconspicuous area of your.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Garment, Oh yeah, or the inside of you or the back.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Ear wrist, whatever, you know. I'm like, no, just risk it.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Can you imagine like I didn't go to I didn't
go to CBS at three am for hair dye to
do a test and wait and wait. You know I
can't because I have an emotional problem. Yeah, yeah, and
I want to quick fix. Yes, and so I'm gonna
go with, well, I can't do anything that bad or
you know, they couldn't put it on the market if
(47:30):
it was that danger. I never trust I always. That's
the whole retinal to the water line thing, you know,
it's like.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
What they say, don't put it up to the water line.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I don't even know. I can't even remember.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
I feel like the retinal because what if people say
about retinal is that it's like it makes me very
sensitive to the sun right to the idea is that
it prevents acne and helps with lines with wrinkles.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Well, the sensitivity of the sun is not like, is
not being framed as a benefit.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
No, no, I mean that that's a problem. Like if
you're on retinal, you have to be really careful about
the sun.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah. Now, thankfully we already are, right, correct. I Mean
it's one of those things where it's like it feels
almost like now you can have the dog if you
promise you will feed it every day and pick up
its trash. Yeah, daddy, okay, yeah, yeah, I'll do it.
This is something I've seen on television. Yeah, but it's
almost like that, it's like, okay, you can have the
(48:23):
retinal if you are if you are vigilant about your
sun protection, because and this is what's scary to me,
the responsibility inherent. They're like, because if you don't, you'll
make your skin worse, like like if your extra sensitive
to the sun, then the sun damage will be worse.
And so it's like it's like, this is where advisors
come into play for me.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Right, right, I still struggle with wearing a hat on.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
I'll never forget a T shirt. Is only SPF ten.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Oh God, don't say it.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
I know it's so it's so upsetting, isn't it wonderful?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Wonderful?
Speaker 1 (48:59):
There's a questionful do our windows protect us? I don't
think they do.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
They don't. And that's one of the things that's you know,
the hell, the realization that you're supposed to wear SPF
even if you're in the side. Never leave the home. Right,
We've talked about this. They say blue light you can
also damage the skin. So well, I'm just inside all day.
I'm like computerble guests, Well, honey, you're gonna want to
slop on some SPF thirty.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Just sit in front of your mac.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Just sit in front of your goddamn mac book and
watch the your feet.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, oh we we we've we did get a code
for light path to wellness like poog ten percent off
with yeah, very fancy all post on the stories, but
that's a deal. I was reading again about red light
and and using it as your ambient light at night
for a couple of hours before going to bed, and
I was like, okay, yeah, and oh you know what,
(49:50):
I you know what I just got. I'm so excited
about what and I mean not to you know, Oh
I forgot to tell you I had this is where
I waken the night. Let me just get this out. Okay.
I'm like, I'm struggling because I'm about to tell you
about a low carb chip and that makes me not
happy about who I am. Oh please, Okay, So there's
that number one, like the mystique you know, not that
there is any, but you know what I mean, right, Like,
(50:12):
oh great? And then secondly, as a result, would you
like hear the most vain possible response to Joan Didion's
death beyond like her work meaning a lot to me
as it does too many You.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Were like fin Spow, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I was like whatever, just looking at the pictures of
Joan didion, and I was like, when you realize there's
something that you've fucked up that cannot be turned back,
and mine was smiling in pictures.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I was like that she never saw Poe.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
I mean there are some I think where she is
very young, like when she's like young woman hot, whatever's
like wind blown, when when like I would try for
daddy my fool. Yeah, she's just like I'm a writer
and I'm looking at the camera and I just I
(51:09):
felt devastation. I felt devastation.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I'm not surprised about it.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
I was, Fuck, why didn' anyone tell me? Like, why
didn't I clock that you can do it? In nineteen
you can do Cut the fucking smiles. I wouldn't have
been walked walked all over. Guess what, folks, is the
last smile you're getting.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Out of me?
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Oh no, we love it Oka, I'm gonna bring it down.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
We love those pearly whites.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
I think this has been wonderful.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
We're at the hour mark. I think we should go, well, well.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Well, another conversation in the can, another day, another dollar
and the dollars spent. I love talking about death, me too.
You know, you know we're gonna bring a lot of that,
A lot of that here.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, it's haiving to go deeper with death. Great.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Well, Uprising is the chips I'm very excited about and
paid through the nose for, and I'm open to partnership
opportunities with Uprising chips. They're like bagel chips.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Arowon actually has an explosive keto cheesecake I was thinking
about for you.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Is it allylos or is it is it monk fruit
or is it your athrotoal? Because if it's your athrotal, I.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Think it's rythrotal.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
It has a cooling effect and I won't have it.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
No, there's no cooling effect.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Okay, some are more sensitive to it than others.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
No, no, no, I know that effect. I know that effect.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
This is not that Hello big good? Actually there's well maney, Well,
well yeah, I have some more bake goods coming coming
your way.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Well you also turned me on too, Lily's.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Peanut butter fact that you didn't know. Unv I want
one to write sugar free baby, Well, Stevia, Sweeten, I
love you, Bye bye?
Speaker 2 (52:55):
That what was poog? If you enjoyed Poog, please subscribe,
rate and review. If not, we will press charges,
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