Dana Perino's Untold Story of Becoming The White House Press Secretary

Dana Perino reflects on her path from a small-town upbringing to becoming the White House Press Secretary under President George W. Bush. She opens up about the lessons in grit, humility, and resilience that shaped her—starting with childhood debates over dinner and leading to moments at the podium during national crises. Dana shares how empathy plays a role in great leadership, what it was really like stepping into Fox News, and how choosing love didn’t mean compromising ambition. A passionate advocate for mentorship, especially for young women navigating their careers, Dana offers insights into building confidence, finding your voice, and helping others rise. From powerful advice from President Bush to handling fear and anxiety, this conversation is packed with wisdom, unexpected career turns, and candid moments. She also shares what inspired her latest book I Wish Somebody Had Told Me, and the heartfelt advice she hopes it passes on.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
What is up?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Everyone? Welcome back to Post Run High. I am sitting
here today with Dana Pirino. Dana's a host at Fox News.
She's a former White House Press secretary. She's a best
selling author, she's a dog mom to Percy, she's a
mentor to many, and so much more. Dana, I am

(00:33):
so excited to be sitting down with you today.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm excited that we're sitting and not running because I'm
not a good runner. But I'm also You're so much
taller than me, so now I feel like we have
a little more of an even playing field. And it's
rare that I'm taller than someone. Is that right? Yes?
So I love that. Congratulations on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you great, thank you, and thanks so much for
being here with me today. It's truly such an honor
to sit down and be able to do this with you.
So for context for everybody listening watching, Dana and I
first met several months ago, we were on a walk
in Central Park with her dog Percy, and now we're
here in Brooklyn at our studio and.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
My third time in Brooklyn today. I love Brooklyn when
I get here, but for me to come to Brooklyn,
there's like an event. I went to a Blake Shelton
concert here once, and then I tried to find a
farmer's market once in Brooklyn, and because I heard it
was great, but I don't think I went to the
right one.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I was a New York City girl and a Manhattan
girl for so many years, because I went to college
in New York City and I always lived on the
Upper West Side, and then I dabbled in a few
other areas. And it's so funny that we now live
in Dumbo, because I probably wouldn't live anywhere else in Brooklyn.
I just as a little girl, I always loved Dumbo.
I remember walking here with my mom over the Brooklyn
Bridge and coming onto the street that we now live

(01:48):
on and saying, this is the most beautiful site I've
ever seen. And it's that street with the beautiful brick
buildings and the bridge in the middle. But I will
definitely go back to Manhattan.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
That's something well, And that show younger I loved. I
don't know if you had known that. Highly recommend It's
with Sutton Foster and Hillary Duff. And then there's another actress.
She's kind of famous. She used to be Madonna's makeup artist. Well,
I can't think of her name, but it takes place
in Manhattan and in Brooklyn, and so it's kind of
the best of both worlds. Just like eighteen minutes an episode.
Highly recommend it.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I need to watch it. I love that Madonna's makeup
artist is now actress.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yes, that's incredible.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yes, Well, I'm so excited for today because you guys
are not only going to learn all about Dana, but
I have a feeling you're going to be able to
learn a lot from her. Ever since we met, I
have not been able to stop talking about you. I
reference to everybody's like, who's your favorite person that you've
had on You're always one of the top people that
aks Thank you. Yeah, and I mean that wholeheartedly. So
when I got the call that we were going to

(02:45):
be able to sit down, I was so excited.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Let's start here.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
You became a household name back in two thousand and
seven when you became the White House Press Secretary. But
before we get to that, I just want you to
take us back a little bit and tell us, you
know about your childhood and maybe when you first got
interested in politics and journalism and current events.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Thanks for the question. I love talking about this and
one of the reasons I wrote my very first book
was because of my upbringing and I wanted young women
to know that if you grow up in a rural
part of America, you can still do anything that you want,
including stay and in your community or go and achieve things.

(03:25):
And I was born in Wyoming. I grew up in
Wyoming in Colorado. My family on my mom's side were
small business owners and on my dad's side, they ranched.
And it was a ranch that my great grandparents had
founded in the late eighteen hundreds in Newcastle, Wyoming, which
is about eighty miles west of Mount Rushmore. And if

(03:45):
you know Devil's Tower, it's right by there. And I
really identify a lot with the ranch because we weren't
a family that went on huge ski trips. I never
went to Europe on family vacations. We went to the ranch.
That was what we did for our Spring break, break,
Christmas break, Thanksgiving, Easter. That's where we wanted to be.
My grandparents were hugely influential in my life. My grandfather

(04:08):
was a county commissioner, my grandmother was a nurse. But
they had a wonderful love story. My grandfather was serving
in the Marines in World War Two in the Pacific.
He was able to get home and the war ends.
He comes and he goes through the Panama Canal up
into Pennsylvania, into Philadelphia. My grandmother had grown up in

(04:31):
New Jersey. Both of them had friends who said, we
want to set you up on a blind date tonight,
and both of them said, there is no way I'm
going on this blind date. But they did, and three
months later my grandmother moved to Wyoming and they shared
a great love story. Wonderful role model in terms of
a relationship. When I would say that my dad and

(04:52):
my mom were voracious news consumers and we got every
newspaper in every magazine. And what was it was really formative.
If I think back, is when I was in third grade,
my dad started a tradition with me where I had
to read the Rocky Mountain News and the Denver Post
before he got home from work, and I had to
pick out two articles to discuss before dinner. And I

(05:14):
think about what I do now. My chance to be
on Fox News anchoring a show, co hosting The Five,
and I love it so much, and I would probably
be doing all of that reading, even if I wasn't
getting paid to so I did that. I was a
gymnast early on when I was a kid, but and
I played the piano, and at some point my mom

(05:37):
and dad said you have to make a choice, and
I chose gymnastics. That was not a great choice. I
was never going to be an Olympic athlete, and when
that became clear around puberty I'm thirteen fourteen years old,
I joined the speech team and that made a huge
difference for me as well. I went to college on
a speech team scholarship. I have a younger sister named Angie.

(05:58):
She's my biggest fan. She always has been, ever since
I first learned to read. She was so proud of me,
told everybody I could read, and she remains my very
dear friend. And my family still ranches in that area.
So I feel very lucky to have grown up in
that part of the world, but to also have traveled
a lot, to had an opportunity to get a good

(06:19):
education and then live in a lot of different places
as well, including Washington, d C. For a long time,
and then now New York, which is amazing.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
I love knowing that a Wyoming girl ended up on
the East Coast, and you have so much so an
East Coast personality.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Really, Yes, that's funny. I really do like the pace
of New York. And there was a time when Peter
and I thought we might move to South Carolina because
it's so beautiful. We thought we would live there. But
I had ten days off in a row when Christmas
and I told Peter on the fifth night, I can't

(06:58):
do this yet. I want to be active. And then
I started really loving New York. And it's got its problems,
believe me, and I'm happy to talk about them. But
I also think that the energy for me where I
am in my life right now, this is the best place.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I feel the same way. I could not leave New
York City, at least right now while I have a career.
I just feel like it's the best place to be,
and there's so many interesting people here. But I know
you also love escaping the city right and going out
to New Jersey, which I love knowing that you've gone
back to your roots a little bit, with your grandma
being from there.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
When I first moved here, I didn't understand when my
now CEO said to me, you need to have a
summer plan was like, who can afford? What are you
talking about a summer plan? What does that mean? Now?
I understand that the city is so much during the
week that you have to have the weekend to regroup.
So we have stumbled upon a community called Bayhead, New Jersey.

(07:53):
It is a special place with great people who have
worked very hard to achieve having a home or a
second home there. But I love the teachers, I love
the police officers, the firemen. These are like all of
my people. I love it in the winter. Of course,
the summer is fun too when everybody's there. But it
has been a place that's great. But what's really great

(08:15):
about it for my husband is his dad was in
the Royal Air Force and he moved around a lot.
He was an international businessman, still is moved around a lot.
Where we live in Bayhead is his forty fourth home address,
and that's where he wants to be. So I feel
like we finally found where we're supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, you're like, after years of traveling around, moving to
different cities, we are in our spouse, which is where
we're going to. We love knowing that it's Jersey. I'm
a Jersey girl.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
So I love that.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I also love knowing that your family has clearly had
such a big influence on you. And I really like
talking about grit, especially with people like yourself. You've achieved
so much, you have to have a certain level of
grit to have gotten to where you've gotten. What influence
do you feel like your upbringing had on your grit?

Speaker 1 (09:00):
That's a great question. I think that certainly in the
western part of the United States, there is a tradition
of resilience and independence and also humility. I was not
somebody who grew up thinking, oh, it'll be no problem
if I don't have a job because my parents will
pay my bills. I know that's very unusual for most people.

(09:23):
That is a very small fraction of the country that
can live like that. So I always wanted to be independent.
I knew I wanted to achieve a lot quickly. I
do regret and I write about this and everything will
be okay. That I really worried away most of my
twenties because I was trying to think of, well, what's next,
How can I get ahead? How can I do this?

(09:44):
I would pay my student loan bill three months in
advance because I was afraid for some reason that all
of a sudden, I would have no money, and that
financial insecurity kind of drove me a little bit. But
I did have ambition, like I wanted to achieve things.
And yet there's another part of of my upbringing that
is interesting. I mentioned about humility. It's not that you

(10:05):
can't be confident. You can be confident, but you should
never be too big for your breches. And that is
something I keep with me all the time. I think
about that, and sometimes I think it is hard to
then discuss your own grit, right, I would rather talk

(10:25):
about somebody else's. And when I was the Deputy Press
Secretary and Press Secretary, we were dealing with some pretty
tough issues like any presidency does, every presidency does, and
I realized I actually didn't cry well at the terrible news,

(10:46):
the tough news that I was really good in a crisis.
I cried twice at the podium. I teared up when
I had to announce that Tony Snow the late Press Secretary,
when his cancer had returned. Yeah, and then I cried
one of the time, got teary eyed only at something
that was sweet, something that was lovely, and an achievement.

(11:06):
But if it was bad news, like I can rise
to the occasion and I can handle that, and you
want me on your side in a crisis, I can
be very calm. I did, however, feel like the experience
made me a little bit more hard edged than my
natural state of being, and I had to learn how
to wipe that away a little bit after I left.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
And it's so funny that you say that, because I
was watching a bunch of.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yr old uh ps never I could never watch it.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
But you were so sweet, and so many comments that
she's America's sweetheart, like people just loved you. Yeah, So
it's funny that you say you got so hardened. But
you were always so gracious, and.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
I think there was something about that that my grandfather
would taught me, you know, to be poised, to be
gracious and to never let them see you sweat. That
was something that I always thought about, was but would
President Bush be proud of me and agree and appreciate
how I am representing him right now? And if the

(12:09):
answer was no, in my gut, I didn't say it
because I could be funny, I could be sarcastic, the
easiest thing you can do. But when you're in a
position of power like that is be mean. But I
could have said to a reporter, that's the stupidest question
I've ever heard. Where in the world did you get
that idea? But I'd just keep it to myself and
swallow that save it from maybe later and we're like,

(12:30):
can you believe he asked that question? But also I
was too busy in that regard, And I never wanted
and still don't ever want to look myself in the
mirror and not be able to be proud of being myself.
Sometimes that's not easy. Sometimes you have to walk a line.
But when I left on January twentieth, two thousand and nine,

(12:53):
we went to the airport and we'd say goodbye to
President Bush. We were on our way to Africa. We
are going to do two weeks safari in two weeks
volunteer work at a faith based site. And I leaned
my head back and I said, nothing I do for
the rest of my life will ever be that important
or that hard. And right before Caroline love It, the
new Press secretary, took over. We had dinner and she's

(13:15):
also had watched several of my briefings, and I thought,
oh my gosh, that must have been terrible, but I
I'm glad that it stands up to the test of time.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
There are so few people that will share that same
experience as you had, And it's cool knowing that you
were able to sit down with Caroline and talk to
her and I'm sure give her advice. And I want
to get to the advice that maybe you've shared with
Caroline and advice that you would have for future press
secretaries as well. But first I want to ask, before
you stepped up to the podium, where's there something that

(13:50):
you had to do, maybe a ritual to calm yourself
down and be able to be so gracious when you
were on camera.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Well, the most important thing I could ever do was
to be one hundred percent prepared. There is It's going
to sound like a cliche, but there is. Knowledge is power.
Knowledge is power, and I have tried every single shortcut
to try to be faster in my prep. There is

(14:19):
no shortcut. You have to do the reading, you have
to do the listening. Listening is an undervalued skill in
leadership and in terms of attention span. A lot of
people now, especially younger people, but older people too. Our
phones have shortened our attention span. It's a problem overall
for our lives. It's a problem. But I would say

(14:40):
that was the most important thing that I could do.
Do the reading, do the listening, and ask the right questions.
I'm not a lawyer. I did spend about ten months
with the Justice Department as a spokesperson. That helped a lot,
and there was a general counsel at the White House
at one point she said you were the best non
lawyer in the White House. Well, one of the reasons

(15:02):
is that when you're the White House Press Secretary, I
would say ninety percent of the questions you get have
some sort of legal component. You're either being sued, or
you're suing somebody else, or you're trying to pass a law.
It's all legally based. And I would say for me, now,
the key is ask the right questions, get to what

(15:24):
is the issue. And usually that's the toughest not to untangle.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
It is, and it's the toughest thing also to figure out.
And I feel like you learn it by doing your
preparation and also, as we were talking about before this,
getting your reps. In one of the quotes that I
have on my bulletin board over there that somebody said
to me during an interview, with specific questions, get specific answers.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
And sometimes when I'm doing my interview prep, I read
over a question and I say to myself, is.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
That too broad? Where are they going to take it?
If I ask that question?

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Or it's more about active listening, but it's the way
you propose a question has to be right.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yes. And also I think, especially for your podcast, which
people want to listen to you because they're going to
learn something and they're going to be maybe entertained, learn
something they didn't know. Here's something that can add to
their life. It's that what I try to do also
is set the other person up for success, right right,
Don't say so how's it going, because like how is
your morning prep today? Or something? I mean something more specific.

(16:18):
I see what you mean and say you're trying to say, like,
I'm paying attention to you and I'm looking you in
the eye. And that's why I think the podcast for
you is very interesting because you're your future is so
exceedingly bright. But then people can see you rather than
just listen or if like if you're running, it's not
necessarily being able to see the intention that you bring
to every interview that I mean, I can see it

(16:40):
and feel it now. So that's what I also try
to do on America's Newsroom, which is when the interview
starts like I don't pay attention to anything else.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
You can't.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
No.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
I was talking to Lindsay Davis about this, but she
also said that so much of interviewing and being a
journalist is having a lot of empathy. You have to
have empathy when you're talking to people as well to
facilitate great conversations to be able to really connect.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, I would say there was one time I actually cried,
got teary eyed at Fox, and it was because I
was interviewing a woman who had been a victim of
domestic violence. She had a restraining order against her ex husband.
She had two children, and it was about bail and
cashless bail. This guy had gotten out. I come to

(17:22):
her house and he had killed her older child and
he thought he killed a younger child and her. They
both lived but right, and she was going to testify
about how cashless bail was about was a problem in Chicago.
So I'm about to interview her and I'm fine, I'm
like organized, And then in my ear right before the interview,
they said it would have been his fifth birthday today

(17:44):
and I could not get that out of my head
and listening to her, and I remember my producer, Matt Schavanni,
great guy in my ear. He said, you're okay, and
sometimes you just need to be reminded like okay, yeah, yes,
I am okay, and I'm here to do a professional job.
But that doesn't mean you don't have a heart.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
I love knowing that you guys have somebody in your
ear to be able to remind you of those things,
because that does help.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
It's very rare. Yeah, it's usually rap right because you
have to stop. But every once in a while it'll
be like you're all right. And it happened in the
Afghanistan with all too when we interviewed a guy who
should have been in America. He had helped us as
an interpreter. He had the right to be here. He
was there at Abby Gate when that bomb went off.

(18:30):
He was cradling a five year old child who died
in his arms. And he did an interview with us
and he said, well, now I know I'm going to die,
and that was a lot he did live. Actually he's
now living in Brazil with his family, which is great.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Wow, You've been able to cover some incredible stories so
many over the past. You know several years. You were
so focused at such a young age on knowing what

(19:05):
you wanted to do, and you've said, I always wanted
to work in politics. Was there ever a woman in
the news for you that you saw in the media
and you said to yourself, Oh, I want to do that.
I want to be like.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Well, I definitely wanted to be a local news anchor.
And it's interesting. I was just in San Angelo, Texas,
small market, but the woman Carolyn McEnroe is her name.
She's the main anchor there and she grew up there.
She went and she worked in Baltimore and bigger markets,
but she came home and she's their anchor there. She's
old school. I love her. She is great. And there
was a woman named Paula Woodward in Colorado. Denver had

(19:37):
great local news when I was growing up, fantastic local news.
I would also say that Paula is on certainly for
me early on bree Walker. So there's a saying in
mentoring you have to see her to be her. So
it's one of those things that's important for take your
kid to work day. I think this is probably true
for boys as well. It's that, oh, she's an astronaut,

(20:01):
like I could be an astronaut. Or she is a
news anchor, I could do that. Oh she's the White
House Press secretary, I could do that. And it gives
people little ideas along the way. So I also had
ambition to be like a local news anchor. I took
the circuitous route to getting to do national news, and
all of those experiences built on themselves. And so in

(20:23):
the books I've written, one of the things I remind
people is that you can have as many plans, and
you should have ideas and goals, but if you are
so worried about getting that one specific plan done, you're
going to end up disappointed because you're not in charge
of this.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Was there ever a job or internship that you had
that you realized, oh, this is not what I want
to ask absolutely? What was?

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Absolutely? I worked for a deputy mayor in San Diego.
I had met my husband on an airplane. I moved
to England. We come back to America. We're living in
San Diego. There weren't many jobs going. I took a
job as a press secretary for a city council in
San Diego is a pretty big market. About four weeks
into it, I said to my husband, I think this

(21:06):
guy could get indicted. There was some funny business going on,
and then a family member of mine died a couple
weeks later. It's only been working there for six weeks
and we're on our flight back and I said to Peter,
I don't want to have to go back there tomorrow,
but I have to go back tomorrow. And he said,
you can quit that job, you know that, right, said, well,

(21:28):
how could I? We had just moved back to America.
I was the only one with a pain drop at
the time because Peter was starting a business. We had
borrowed money to get a one bedroom apartment and a vehicle.
We had a four month old puppy. We look back
on those times though, and we had literally very little.
But my husband said, you can leave, and I went

(21:49):
in and I resigned, and they were like, well, how
long do we have you? Another month? And I said no.
He almost did get indicted. He was able to get
the charges dropped, but it was something silly. It was
like utilizing city workers to do campaign work. Something like that.
But at the time, I was like, I don't want
to be here anymore. But he was not a good person,
not a nice person. I didn't want to be around him.

(22:11):
And I have been very fortunate do have great jobs
at a great place, Like working for the White House
was amazing, and being at Fox has been incredible. The
opportunities it's provided me, the colleagues that are like family,
the culture is great. Plus I work at a place
where I can say and do anything I want. I
have so much independence and a lot of responsibility is

(22:31):
on me. I have to do a good job, like
they will back me up, but I'll have to do
the work. There's no shortcuts.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
And I love that you just mentioned your colleagues because
in your book that's launching this month. I loved seeing
so many of your Fox colleagues referenced in the book
and quoted all I.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Loved writing the bios for each of them. I took
great care. Somebody wrote today that I wrote them with
great affection, and I really did. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Absolutely, let's talk about this because I feel like for
so many people, especially in their young twenties and late twenties,
it's hard to know and I always talk about the
power of the pivot, but it's so hard to know
when it's time to leave a job or when a
job is no longer serving you. But my dad always
says it to me. And I remember when I was
working in advertising, which I had worked so hard to
get these advertising jobs. When I was in college, I

(23:14):
was doing internships, I was taking night classes. I graduated
early so that I could start working and start paying
off my student loans. And I remember saying to my dad,
I started this running interview show. It's going really well,
and I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna leave
my job. And he was like, you're not leaving your
job until you move from a position of strength and
you have something else or you know this thing is

(23:36):
really going well for you. So I'm curious, what would
be your advice to people that say to you, Okay,
I think I really want to leave my job.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
So in the new book, I do ask a lot
of different people this question, and one of my colleagues,
Trey Goudie, has written what I think is one of
the best books on decision making, and it's called Start, Stay,
or Leave, and he writes about the possibility of leaving
as a prosecutor at one point, and it just didn't
feel right to him. But when he was ready to

(24:05):
leave Congress, it felt right to leave. I believe that
you need to be in a place of growth, and
especially if you're in your twenties. Right there is a
tendency to want to move on too quickly because you
do learn fast, and you have ambition, and things are expensive,
so you want the next job. But you have to

(24:25):
really ask yourself, is there anything I can do to
be better at this job today than I was yesterday?
Is there anything more for me to learn? The answer
is no, and you're honest about it, then the answer
is probably you should try to look for the opportunity
to move up within the company or to move on.
Another reason to move on would be if you are uncomfortable,
if you think it's an unethical situation. I just saw

(24:47):
this thing on overheard New York, somebody saying, well, what
we're doing is not illegal. I mean it's a little shady,
but it's not illegal. Yeah, if that's your situation, you
probably want to leave. But there's also this a friend
of mine who worked in the Biden administration. She said
that she'd been given this opportunity to leave the Biden

(25:08):
Vice presidential office to go to the State Department. And
she said, well, why would I ever do that? I
love this job. And she went to see a girlfriend.
She goes, can you believe this? They want me to
leave the Vice president's office and go work there. And
her friend said, when you think about your job today,
do you feel like you are just above water? Like
are you about to drown every day? She goes, Oh God, no,

(25:29):
this job so easy. She goes, then you have to leave.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
On this topic in your book, and the good news
is you. And by the way, guys, if you're loving
this conversation with Dana, just go pick up one of
her books, because you'll be able to feel like you're
having a direct conversation with her and learning all about
her experiences in her books. In your book, you talked
about the day that you were presented the job as.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Press secretary had been a great story.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
And it might have been a day that you wanted
to throw in the.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Towel it was going I went into I went into
the White House that day to resign. There was about
eighteen months left in the presidency. I was the deputy
had been the deputy for a long time and these
are you know, eighteen hour days, and I was physically
feeling a little run down. But also I knew I
wasn't going to move up and I didn't come from money,

(26:18):
and I needed to figure out is there a way
that I can establish myself at some sort of you know,
either PR firm or something where I can have a
foothold on the next part of my career. And Peter
and I talked about it. He went on, one of these races,
you've probably done, these these twenty four hour races that
you do with the team. Yeah, it's good to coast.

(26:38):
That's what it was.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
When I heard that he did that, I was like,
we're going to need to interview Peter.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Because Peter's the best interview. He's great, He's a runner,
like that'd be amazing. He's got great stories, and he's
been my biggest supporter. Like before we leave almost give everybody.
My very favorite piece of advice has to do with him.
But Peter and I decided that it made sense, even
though I didn't really want to leave the White House,
but it made sense because they were saying, if you

(27:04):
don't have fresh legs to finish this race, You're going
to have to make the hard decision and leave. So
I went into the White House that day and I
saw Ed Gillespie. He was the director of Communications, and
I said, hey, Ed, can I see you after the
communications meeting? And he says, yes, I need to talk
to you too. I said, great, okay, and I'm dreading it,
dreading it, dreading it. Go to communications meeting. It ends

(27:25):
and it says, Dana, can you stay Yah? Sure, so
I stay behind.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
I'm sure everybody was thinking I was in trouble or
there's something else big going on. And we sit down
and I'm about to just blurt it out to just
like rip the band aid off, and he said, do
you mind if I go first? And I said okay, yeah, sure,
And I sat back and he said the President would
like to announce you as Press secretary on Friday. And
I said I knew my life had changed an instant

(27:52):
and I said great. Now. Ed did not know that
story until he read my book and he called me
said I cannot believe that. Imagine if I had gone first.
I was just kidning say that, And that's why I'm
saying about the plan My plan was to go in
and resign, and then I was going to get a
job at a PR agency, and then everything was then
da da da da da da, and the plan that

(28:13):
was not the plan. And then he said, and also
you have to plan a secret trip to a rack.
We're leaving Friday night. And when that happens, the Press
secretary does all the work. So I went downstairs and
I called Peter and I was like, he said, how
did it go? I said, well, and he's congratulations, my darling.
He was so happy.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Oh my goodness. I was gonna say, did you accept
the job before calling Peter in telling him.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, of course. And then but it happened again. Years later,
I was a contributor at Fox and I did a
couple other things. I was on the Broadcasting Board of
Governors under Barack Obama. I'd just been to Africa. I
was at Dulles Airport at baggage claim when I got
a call from Fox saying, Hey, I know this is
going to disrupt your summer, but would you mind coming
up to New York and doing this temporary show called

(28:55):
The Five. It's going to be for five to six weeks.
That's it. We just need to fill this until we
figure out what's going on there, and you know, would
you mind coming up and doing the show called The Five?
And I thought, my summer's ruined. I have to go
to live in man middle of Manhattan for a summer.
This is terrible. And I called Peter. He was in
Korea on business. I said, Peter, you're not going to

(29:17):
believe this, and he said, congratulations, my darling. So I
said again, I was like what he said. This is
what you always wanted to do. And we were about
to have our fourteenth anniversary this July for the Five.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
I also love that you referenced Peter, and I want
to talk about this really quickly because this is another
thing that you mentioned in that book, and you also
said it to me on our walk when I asked
you a quote that you live by, and it is
choosing to be loved is not a career limiting decision,
and Peter ended up being and throughout your entire career
has been one of your biggest supporters.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Right. So we met on an airplane. He's eighteen years
older than me. He lived in England at the time,
we didn't have cell phones. This is nineteen nine seven,
and we didn't have air pods. We had hard copy books,
you know, And I asked him about his book and
we started talking, and immediately I was like, oh my gosh. Well,
first of all, he has a British accent, so that helps.

(30:12):
I don't lose it Peter. But you know, I had
a pretty good career trajectory for me at the time.
I was a House Pressed secretary for a pretty high
up member of Congress and wasn't quite in leadership, but
he was a senior guy. I had good friends at Gillespie,
being one of them who worked on the Hill at
the time, and I thought, first of all, when I

(30:36):
left local TV and went to Capitol Hill, I thought, wow,
I'm never going to get to work in TV again.
Thinking about moving to England to be with Peter, I thought, well,
there goes my career. Everything I worked for it's gone.
Of course, none of that turns out to be true.
But I went home to Colorado and it was Christmas
time and a family friend took me aside and she goes, so,

(30:59):
what's going on because he was there, and I was like, oh, no, no, no, no,
I don't know because I was so worried about what
everybody else would think. Like, he's eighteen years older than me,
he has two kids. I was twenty five years old.
People are going to think I'm crazy and impulsive. And
she said, don't give up on this chance to be loved.
It might not ever happen again. And she goes, why

(31:21):
do you care what other people think? And another thing
I say in these books is that everyone thinks that
everyone else is thinking about them. It's never true. Everyone
is only ever thinking about themselves, like including me, like
it happened. I am like, we are empathetic. But also
when somebody says, oh, guess when I'm having a baby
and they work for you, you're the first thing is
thought was, oh gosh, who's going to do her job right?
Like it happens. It's just natural. And when I was

(31:46):
so nervous to tell my parents I was moving to England,
I could not believe it. I worked myself up into
the worst anxiety. I call my parents and I tell
them and they go, this is great. All that worry
for nothing. And I look back and I think, if
I had given up on that chance to have this
amazing twenty seven year marriage with Peter, I actually look

(32:07):
back I'm like, one, none of it would have been
fun or worth it. But I also don't think I
could have done it without him.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
I mean, having a supportive partner in your life really
is such a game changer, especially when you're in a
job like being the Press secretary of the United States.
And I just have to shout this out really quickly,
but Dana was the second female Press secretary of the
United States ever and the first ever Republican press secretary.
So we talked a little bit before about the quote
that you mentioned was you have to see it sometimes

(32:34):
to believe it.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
One of the other piece of advice I have is
always take the deputy job or the second in command job.
Take that job. Love it. It might mean like for
me that was that meant you do the job and
you work the holidays and the weekends. But that's when
that got to know the president. We would show up
on a Saturday and it was always all the deputies,
and let's say he was going to give a graduation speech.
We walk in like high sirs, the B team. He's like, yeah,

(32:57):
the best team. We would have so much fun. Was
like a little bit more easy going, but that's when
you learn to do the job, and the deputy position
is great. I love it. I always tell people to
take that job.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
For people that don't know, let's talk a little bit
about your path to being White House Press secretary.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
So I moved to England to be with Peter. We
moved to San Diego. I'm bored out of my mind,
and I went in August of two thousand and one
and said to my friends, I would love to come
back if something opens up, let me know. I want
to work for President Bush, but I work on Capitol Hill.
If anything comes up you think is good, let me know.
Two weeks later was the nine to eleven attacks, and

(33:45):
my girlfriend, Mindy Tucker worked at the Justice Department, and
she called me and said, are you still willing to
come back to Washington even after all of this? I
need another spokesperson on my team. And she could trust me.
I worked with her on Capitol Hill and I could
pass a background check quickly, and I started packing when
we were on the phone. And I was a spokesperson

(34:06):
at DOJ for almost a year, and then I got
pulled over to the White House Council on Environmental Quality,
which was actually back to my roots because a lot
about conservation, land use, farming, agriculture, earthland, and sky.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
That was it.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
So I did that for about two and a half years,
and then I was going to leave. I was going
to go to the Social Security Administration to work on
that effort at the Treasury Department, and Scott McClellan said,
I'd like to make you my deputy. So I took
the deputy job. I was very happy as deputy, very
happy as deputy. I like being behind the scenes. I'm

(34:41):
still a good staffer. I'm a good producer, I'm a
good staffer. But I had to step up when there
was no other person to do the job, and that
happened to be me.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
And on top of that, soon after you became White
House Press Secretary the Great Financial Crisis of two thousand
and eight about a year later. What was it like
stepping up to the podium when you're speaking to a
nation of people that are panicked, and not only panicked,
but also they're going to hang on every word you say,

(35:13):
like what does preparation for that look like?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
It was very interesting because I remember a lot of
people before that across the administration. They loved to be
on TV and they would ask if did I want
them to join the briefing, could I put them on TV?
The financial crisis happens and they were nowhere to be found.
There was me, and I didn't come from money. I
don't know what. I didn't know what a credit default
swap was. Turns out nobody else did either. But what

(35:38):
I did know was this that the President was principled
in his decision making. I was there for all of
the meetings so I could understand and listen and what
I would say. I remember when Brett Baer, he was
the White House reporter at the time. A little bit
in the weeds here, but it makes sense in the story.
When the President authorized the Treasury Secretary to ask Congress
for the money to bail out the banks. The banks

(36:00):
did repay. But when that happened, we called it the
Troubled Asset Relief Program called TARP. People in finance are
going to remember this. It passes after a lot of
gnashing of teeth, tantrums, everything, but it passes. And I
do believe that it helped save people from having to

(36:23):
actually panic a lot of people. There were a lot
of people heard in it. I don't discount that, but
fewer than would have been if we hadn't done what
we did, or he did, I should say with the president.
So the Troubled Asset Relief Program passes. The next morning,
we're at senior staff meeting and they start talking about
how they're not going to use the money to buy
troubled assets. They're going to give the cash to the

(36:44):
bank so that they can do it. And I, again,
you have to ask the right question, but isn't it
called the troubled Asset Relief Program? And you're now you're
not going to do it, And they kind of give
me the run around and in the briefing that I'll
never forget it, and I think this is why people
thought that they could trust me. Brett Behar says, but

(37:05):
I thought it was called the Troubled Asset Relief Program,
And I said, great question, Brett. I asked it myself
this morning and I didn't get a good answer. But
I'm working on it, and as soon as I have one,
i'll try to provide it to you. Because my job
wasn't just a spin. My job was to be the
liaison and to get it back. And President Bush always

(37:26):
made sure that I had what I needed. So when
he found out that they were not giving me what
I needed. It turned around really quickly.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
What is the best piece of advice that you got
from President Bush?

Speaker 1 (37:37):
To ask yourself what is the worst thing that could happen? Now,
this wasn't happening in the presidency. It was afterwards. I
joined a PR firm, and I was giving speeches and
I was doing this. My favorite thing I did was
the Fox Contributorship. So I had all these things happening,
and I really did not like the PR firm that
I was working for. I actually don't like working in PR.

(37:57):
I didn't know that. I thought, well, that's natural, this
is what this is what press secretaries do. It was
just not my scene at all. And I went to
see the president on something else, oh, to help him
with his book tour. And I walk in and I said,
good morning, mister President. And he said what's wrong? And
I said, everything is good because I can tell what's wrong, toy,

(38:20):
But let's have it. He loves to mentor that's his
favorite thing. So I start to tell him and he says, okay,
so let me get this straight. What's the worst thing
that could happen if you left the PR firm? And
started your own agency. What's the worst thing that could happen.
I'm like, well, he goes, okay, So you're telling me
you were the White House Press Secretary and the worst

(38:41):
thing that could happen is you start a PR firm
that doesn't work and you have to go work for
another PR firm. That's the worst thing that could happen
in your life. It's like, come on. And he really
talked about being willing to take a risk and how
important that is for all of us as Americans. We
are pioneering, innovative people. That's one of the reasons were

(39:04):
the most exceptional nation. But you have to be willing
to take a risk. So I always still when I
passed that advice on to people, but I also even
say it to myself. And doctor Samantha Boardman a good
person for you to have on this podcast. I think
she has this method where if you're wrestling with something
and you're worried about something, she said, in your mind,

(39:25):
imagine the very best case scenario and the very worst
case scenario. And the truth is it's not going to
be either of those extremes. It's going to be somewhere
in the middle and it can help calm you down.
And it's so true.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
I feel like our minds have the tendency, especially as people,
that if you're a perfectionist, you have a perfectionist mindset,
you do always go to the extreme.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
So that is such good advice. And one time Bill Hammer,
we were interviewing somebody who's hostage family out of Israel
and there had been a video. It was very distressing
and in the pre interview fhazed. During the commercial break,
we have a chance to say hello, and I will
never forget he said something so kind. He said, Okay,

(40:07):
don't let your imagination get too far ahead. I loved that.
If you're worried about your loved one and you thinking
they're in this terrible situation, I mean, in your imagination,
you can come up with some horrible scenarios. Let's not
go there yet, okay. And I thought that that was
so kind and told him and I've tried to use
it since.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
You eventually got into broadcasting, and as we mentioned, you're
on one of the most watched shows. So what was
it like going from being the press secretary to all
of a sudden being a member of the press.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Well, at first I was so reluctant and reticent because
on the five again, we thought it was a temporary show,
so I didn't want to say anything that was going
to preclude my ability to have like a presence or
a PR firm. I didn't want to say anything. Plus
I had clients, so I couldn't talk about gas prices
because one of the companies I worked for was an
oil company. So once I shed all of that, that

(40:57):
was helpful. But also I'd say my colleague Greg Gutthald,
who I interview in the new book, because he's got
great advice and amazing experiences. Not only is he funny
and hugely successful, but he's been through a lot. And
that's one of the joys of getting a little bit
older is passing along good advice to younger generations. And
I remember one day the topic was legalization of marijuana.

(41:20):
This is going back away as we've been on the
air for fourteen years, so I know it's very common now,
but back then it wasn't, and I'm against it. I'm
still against it, and I believe I'm being proven right.
But I remember he said, what do you think of it?
And I started to give the Bush administration position at
the Justice Department, and he goes, nobody you think, and
I was like, me, who cares what I think. I've

(41:45):
never been elected to anything. I don't know. I've always
been a spokesperson for somebody else. So we talked about before.
We haven't talked about it yet. But finding your strong voice.
Part of that for me was also having to find
my strong voice and becolm that I could express my
opinions and it would be okay. Fox News gives you
that room and confidence to say what you believe, and

(42:08):
they back.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
You up and you can correct me if you don't
think this is right. But I think from watching your
briefings to now watching you on Fox, there is such
a difference in how you speak and your tone and
kind of the confidence behind what you're.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Could have fun now, yeah, And I actually remember Brian
kill Me. I remember Brian kill Me one time he said, Wow,
I never knew you were funny. I was like, well,
I didn't know I could be you know, I could
have like a light moment here or there. But being
able to just be my full self is that's pretty great.
It's pretty great to be that way. And in America,

(42:43):
as educated American women, like, there's really nothing we can't do.
We just have to decide what we want to.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Do and data and I talked about finding your strong
voice on our walk and it's a quote that has
stuck with me ever since. I've been like, well, what
is my strong voice? And it's been kind of recently
that I've started to figure out what it means to
have a strong voice and then almost what it's going
to take to get there. And I think that's one
of the most important processes and steps in finding that
strong voice. But let's break down what you mean by

(43:09):
that and maybe the steps that people can take to
find it.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
So I remember being a press secretary on Capitol Hill
and my chief of staff sent me to a meeting
and on her behalf, and I came back and she
asked me how it went, and she said, oh, did
you bring up this point? And I said I had
to admit no, I didn't. I didn't speak up in
the meeting. And she said, I didn't send you there

(43:33):
to be a mouse. I sent you there on my behalf.
So and she said, you have to find your strong
voice and represent me and the congressman at these meetings.
So then I started understanding that a little bit more,
and then as I did more mentoring, I started seeing,
in particular, this tendency for young women to either use

(43:55):
the vocal fry or the up talking, and I think
it's a mask to hide their lack of confidence. So
as when they talk like this all the time and
everything ends in a question, even if it's not, that
is so annoying. And what I'm trying to explain to
them is it's annoying to people, but it's also going
to hold you back career wise. You're not going to
get the job or the chance to travel for the company,

(44:19):
or be chosen to give the awards ceremony speech. You're
never going to get the job if you cannot find
your strong voice. And it can mean a lot of
different things to other people. For example, it starts when,
especially girls, when they're young, they have to be able
to order their own meal at a restaurant. If women

(44:40):
at that age can't ask for what they want to
eat for dinner, how are they going to in the
future ask for what they're worth at a job. It
matters if you have to help them when they're young.
And then as mentors, we have a responsibility to take
someone aside privately. Let's say that they're doing the up talking.

(45:03):
They don't even realize they're doing it because all their
friends talk that way, so it sounds normal to them.
But I'm telling you, I've seen it three or four times.
You gently say something, they can turn it off immediately.
And so there's that. But then also at the podium,
there would be days when I was nervous, but if

(45:24):
I was prepared, I could have a stronger voice. And
I always wanted everyone in the briefing room to know
that I've read more than everybody in this room, so
I know more than all of you. Ask me anything
and have that little confidence. I still had imposter syndrome.
I remember one day. One day I went to the
briefing room, and I think it might have been Peter Baker,

(45:47):
he was at the Washington Post of the time, was
asking me a question, and I had one of those
moments of imposter syndrome where I thought, why are they
asking me? What do I know? But all of us
have that.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Everybody has it. I was just talking about it in
the last interview that I posted with Ryan Ballzario. She's
an incredible actress, and we were talking specifically about imposter syndrome,
which she's dealt with throughout her entire career. And she's said,
Academy Award winning actresses feel this imposter syndrome when you
know they're incredible at their craft. And I loved what
she said, and I think you're gonna like it too.
But she said, when it comes to imposter syndrome, you

(46:17):
have to feel the fear and do it anyways.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
It does have to know that other people feel that way. Yes,
And Trey Goudy and Trey Goudy in this new book
he talks about and in his book Starts to or
Leave It talks very openly about how he has lived
with anxiety and fear, and he said that what he
learned is that you cannot think that fear is going
to just totally go away. You can let it ride

(46:42):
in the passenger seat and it'll be there and you
don't have to pretend it's not there. But it's not
going to drive. You drive and it can be there
and you can deal with it, but don't pretend like
it's never going to be there, because that actually helps
you be a little bit better. Is biological, right, So
survival of the fittest was really because we used to

(47:04):
like run away from animals or something. Now we have
different fears, but we all have figure out a way
to deal with them. When you start thinking about the
worst case scenarios all the time and let your imagination
run away with you, I believe that's biological and you
can just find ways to harness that. So can you
find that ability to take all that energy and to
turn it into something positive.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Comes down to preparation, right, And it's like for me, yeah,
and I think for so many people too, because I
feel like the fear also can translate when you're in school.
If anybody's listening to this and you're in college and
you're you've got a midterm coming up, I'm sure that
midterm is stressing you out, and then you realize you
get a little bit less stressed out.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
As you And I actually, when I talked about the
woman who told me to choose love, there was another
woman in my singles group at the church that I
went to at the time, and she said, remember in
the Bible it says over and over again, fear not right.
Why do you think it says that right? Because it's
natural to be fearful. And the truth is, you don't
have to be fearful. And when I ask young people

(47:59):
or any really, but especially young younger people that are
reading any of the advice I'm giving, it's do not
worry your young life away. Enjoy your young life. You're
not going to have all the answers right now, and
that's great, and it's okay. Like, as long as you're
getting up every day, making your bed, getting to work,
being a responsible adult, thinking ahead, going out and meeting people.

(48:23):
You cannot hide in your room. You cannot do COVID
for the rest of your life. You have to go
out and meet people. We are social beings and we
have to get past that because, for example, I only
have I'm only sitting here with you today because I
went to a hockey game in nineteen ninety five.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (48:41):
I was working on Capitol Hill answering phones for a congressman.
We had an opportunity to go to the Colorado Avalanche game.
I don't know. I know nothing about sports, you know that.
So I got asked if I want to go to
this hockey game because it was free, and I was like, oh,
I don't know this I just come with us. I'm
like Okay and Coor's Brewing company. Before the lobbying gift
ban cave all of us tickets. On a chartered bus

(49:03):
to go to the hockey game, I sat next to
a guy named Tim Rutten and he said, so, what
do you want to do in DC? I said, Oh,
I'd love to work my way up to be a
House press secretary. One day, he goes, oh, do you
know Congressman Dan Shaffer because his pres secretary is leaving.
And I said, oh, I know who he is, but
I could never I just got here and I just
took the job. I've only been here six weeks. They

(49:24):
it would be so rude of me to look for
another job already, and he said, oh, you have no
idea how this place works. And he made me meet
up with that young woman, Janelle Guerrero, and that's how
I got the press secretary job on Capitol Hill. But
if I hadn't gone to that hockey game, nobody would
have known I existed.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
You've been in the media for a while now, and
the media landscape is changing. We've got new platforms popping up.
And I told somebody that I would ask about this.
So I have to ask you, know, you've done an
incredible job delving into TikTok and Instagram and just being
on social media. What was it or who was it
that encouraged you maybe to get online and do it?

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Well, if I think back on January twenty is, two
thousand and nine, when I left the White House, I
did not have a Twitter account or a Facebook account.
It just really wasn't a thing yet. And an assistant
I got in the next year said would you like
me to set up a Twitter account for you? I said, oh, good, no,
who needs that? No, she goes, I can show you
how to post pictures of your dog, and I was like, Okay,

(50:36):
now you're talking, let's do it. So then I realized, oh,
this is a great place to find out about news
or for people to hear what I'm thinking, and especially
like with Fox. So then that develops over time. Greg
early on in Twitter, Greg Gutfeld and I started this
Twitter war against each other. It was hilarious at least
we thought so, but it gained us so many followers.

(50:58):
Instagram becomes a thing. I never really was that big
on Facebook. Instagram I liked, and then fast forward, I
knew that younger people were getting news in a different way,
and I still want to have access to them. I
want them to hear my ideas, my thoughts, my opinions,
maybe argue with me, whatever it might be. But there

(51:21):
is just so many different ways to communicate. I love
it that I'm on the number one show in all
of cable on the five and America's Newsroom does incredibly well.
All of Fox does great, but I still felt like
there were other places. So Fox provided some opportunities, but
they also give us leeway to do our own thing.
And last year, when there was a change in my assistant,

(51:43):
I had said to my new assistant, I nicknamed her
TikTok Kate Kate Dipetro, I said, one of the things
I want to do is have more of a presence
on social media. I was doing some not enough. I
was like, there's more I can do here, and I
would like you to help me. And so I talk
about reverse mentoring a lot, and in a way that
doesn't make me feel stupid and doesn't compromise who I

(52:06):
am or my integrity or I would never want to
post something inappropriate or I would never do that. And
she has been an incredible partner, and I have been
pleasantly surprised, sometimes even shocked at what an effect it
can have and how many people see it and remember
it and remember little funny things that we do together.

(52:26):
For example, we were on a plane. We took a
picture about where do you think We're going? And I
didn't know she had this sweet treat on her lap,
The Uncrustable, but everyone saw the rapper and I don't know.
I got like a million views or something, and it
was crazy. And it's not that I want people to
know about The Uncrustable, It's that I want them to
know here is somebody in the media who I might

(52:49):
be able to relate to and maybe trust and listen
to right.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
And I feel like just by hearing how you speak,
it's so important. For the younger generation. We talk a
lot on social media about the TikTok voice or the
social media.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Voice, and take it. That's not the strong voice. It's
not the strong voice.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
That's what you referenced before, which is that kind of
seesaw tone. So having people like you that speak so
eloquently is so important and.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
It shows a very healthy and successful mentoring relationship and
I think people like to see that as well, that
they know I'm learning from her and she's learning from me.
We do gen z News. This was her idea, TikTok Kate.
But it's amazing to me, Like I will see people
even if she's not with me, they're like, how's Kate
and getting to know somebody else. But that healthy mentoring

(53:36):
relationship is really important for a lot of people to
understand and see. And here's the other thing. It's made
work more fun and we could all use a little
more fun.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
You guys look like you're having so much fun. I
have to ask, what is one thing that you've learned
from TikTok Kate that you didn't expect to learn going
into this world of social media?

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Learn learn that Selena Gomez and Justin Bieber dated at
some point. I didn't know that. We have some quizzes
that we do back and forth. I don't have children
of my own. I have a lot of you love Percy.
I have Percy, but I have a lot of friends
that have children. And now a lot of my friends,
especially the people I have mentored over the years, now
they are having children and I enjoy being a part

(54:21):
of their world and learning about it. And I think
what has surprised me too is how many the breadth
and depth of people that are on social media watching
so it can be much younger people like my friend's
fourteen year old daughter who loves TikTok kh wants to
know everything about her, and then all the way up
to older people who live in Bayhead are like, oh,
I love the fashions and it's just given me another

(54:44):
way to connect with people in a way that makes
me happy, makes them happy. It's a little bit entertainment.
It's a little bit lighter, and I think we could
all use a little bit of lift.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
And it's nice for people to see the behind the
scenes of everything you're doing, you know, especially the people
that are tuning in every single day to watch you
report the news as their trusted news sources.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
I didn't think people would want that sort of behind
the same thing, but they do. They do.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Yeah, And I love that you said it is nice
for people to see a mentor mentee relationship. And it's
also fun knowing that mentorship has been such a big
part of your life. You see it for your writing.
We've got a new book coming out, Dana Prino, I
wish someone had told me, it's incredible, let's talk about it.
What inspired your new book? I wish somebody had told me.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
A couple of things. So when I wrote everything Will
Be Okay and that the subtitle is lessons for Young
Women from a former Young Women, a couple of things happened.
One my mom called me and she said, I wish
somebody had told me this, And that stuck with me.
So my mom was part of that generation of women
that really paved the way for the rest of us.
And they had to do it on their own. There

(55:49):
were no mentors. Nobody was doing it. They figured it
out right, So then we get a chance to follow on.
Another thing is I had a lot of great feedback
from young women saying, this really changed my life, but
that changed your life. But what they wanted to hear
is that you're not the only one that's having these
feelings in your quarter life crisis. You're not the only
one who's worried about work life balance or wondering how

(56:11):
to get the job, or why is it that the
guy's got the promotion instead of me. Like all of
those feelings, it's so normal, and everyone was having them
so it was very relatable. But another thing that struck
me was how many young men said to me they
wish there was something like that for them. Now nothing
is preventing men from writing a mentoring book in that way, though,

(56:31):
it's almost like a bridge too far. So in this book,
I don't do it specifically for young women, and I
talk about post COVID work life and work life balance
and everything from starting your career, deciding what to study,
deciding what kind of position that you want to go for,
what kind of industry you want to work in, all

(56:53):
the way up through retirement, and the things in between.
But what I did in the meantime was, in this
goal to do more or social media, I started something
on Foxnews dot com called Short Questions with Dana Perino.
I'm very short, so Short Questions with Dana Perino was
a very scrollable type, sort of like a snackable content,

(57:14):
and I would just ask people what's your favorite app,
what's your this, what's your that? And then people loved
this thing, and I got kind of bored with the questions,
so I started asking, what's the best piece of advice
you ever got, what you wish someone had told you?
And I started getting such good answers that I thought,
it's a shame not to put this in one place.
So I feel like this book is the one stop
shopping place for all of those worries and concerns for

(57:38):
setting out on your career or if you are mid career.
I do a lot of interviewing with parents, especially moms,
about work life balance, raising children, having your career, making
a choice and maybe not work for a while, come
back all the way up through retirement. I mean a
lot of people are deciding what am I going to
do in retirement. I talked to Stuart Varney. He's one
of my colleagues. He's in his mid seventies, rushing it

(58:00):
every day, and he has asked me and for the
past fifteen years, should I retire? I'm like, do you
think you should?

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Well?

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Not yet, Okay, maybe not yet. So I was able
to ask him why, and I got such good answers
from a lot of colleagues I work with at Fox,
but also people like Dirk Spentley, who's one of my
favorite country music singers, and I've become friends with him
and he's done a lot in his career. If you're
in entertainment, you deal with a lot of rejection, so

(58:28):
I asked it, how do you deal with that? How
a lot of people are afraid of rejection, so they
don't want to risk anything. So it's all just in
one place. The other thing is I did one chapter
on Dana's dews and don't and updated one on that
so that you can get the blunt thing of don't
wear uggs to the office, use your strong voice, things

(58:48):
like that all the way up to things like the
chapter where I ask everyone what's the best advice you
ever got?

Speaker 2 (58:54):
That's one of my favorite chapters in the book, and
you described it so well in the books. I'm really
just going to use your words here. But the book
is almost like a ladder where I feel like you
can reference it at multiple times throughout your career. It's
really not just a book that you can read all
the way through and then never come back to you.
I feel like it is kind of a bible in
a way that when you're at different stages of your career,

(59:15):
there's different chapters and different pieces of advice that might
speak to you. You said in the book that your
favorite question is what's the best advice you've ever received.
Chapter eight is you getting advice from some of your
closest friends and colleagues. So I'm curious, out of the
advice in that chapter, what is the best advice you've received.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
It's interesting you said, so the one that came to
mind just now is not something that was actually relevant
personally to me, but it is advice that I've been
giving to young women in particular. So my friend Michelle Chase,
she is an incredible hr person. She's quoted in many
places in this she's a mother of three. She talks
about what it is like for women and what they

(59:55):
should do when they have children. If they're going to
take some time off of work. She says, always open
an LLC, have a consulting business and do a little something,
a little client work here and there. Doesn't have to
be much. It could be a lot, whatever it is,
because then when you decide to go back to work,
you have something that looks like you've been doing something. Okay.

(01:00:17):
The reason this matters is a lot of employers, when
you come back to work, they'll want to reduce your pay. No,
that's not acceptable. They don't know what you've been making.
It's not that you've just been doing nothing for five years.
You've been doing the most important job, raising the next generation,
and you're coming back to work because you have something
valuable to provide. I think that that practical advice for

(01:00:41):
new moms was one of the best pieces of advice
I've ever heard.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
And I'm not a mom yet, so I can't speak
from experience, but I do know myself, and I feel
like I couldn't imagine not being stimulated in some sort
of way outside of kid worlds. I also think from
that perspective, it's just healthy right to always keep something
up in some way. Also like that you brought up
Dirks Batley because he's the first person, and I like
knowing that his name is pronounced Dirks because when I

(01:01:04):
was reading it, it was one of my favorite quotes, and
it was the first quote that you listed, and it
makes sense that he's a country singer. The quote is
keep flowing, keep creating, don't think too much, let's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Go baby Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
And some people the quotes are very long, his was
to the point short. I love the quote good is
better than perfect, and I think that's so important in
so many different walks of life. You know, I'm not
a perfect interviewer yet, but maybe one day I will
be and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
You'll never be perfect. And also, if you feel like
you are, then you're done. On board.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
There's a quote that I want to pull out, and
I don't want to get it wrong. It's from Bill
Hammer and the quote is be humble. My mom always
said it, and I just want to compliment you for
a second, because you truly are one of the most
humble people I've ever met, and you have been in
rooms that so many people could only dream of being in.
So I just want to thank you so much for

(01:01:55):
being who you are and gracing our TV screens every
day and being here with me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Now, thank you well. It's one of the great things
about this whole journey has been getting to know other
people and helping others succeed makes you more successful. And
so the only thing I've ever asked of anybody that
I've given mentoring advice to is to pass it on
to the next generation.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
I love it, and it's amazing knowing that all while
you are building this incredible career for yourself, you're also
thinking about other people.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Absolutely or else. What's the point, right?

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
What is next for you? We've got this book coming out.
When does the book release?

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
So April twenty second is the day that it comes out,
so right before graduation. But as you said, I think
it kind of works for everybody. I actually think that
this book is good for managers to give to their
employees as well or for managers to read to get
advice because we don't have all the answers. And one
of the reasons I interviewed all these people is that

(01:02:57):
I keep getting asked for more mentoring advice, but I
don't have all the answers, So I thought, well, who
should I ask? I asked the trusted people in my life.
My favorite thing at this age and at this point
in my career is that I love everything I'm doing.
I'm not worried about what's next. I'm not anxious about
what's next. The only thing I'm starting to worry about

(01:03:19):
is that I don't have enough time to get it
all done. I have some hobbies that I love, as
some book projects that are underway in my mind, and
I just feel like time goes by so fast, and
I try to I would buy anybody's extra minutes if
I could. But the most bipartisan thing in the world
is that we all get the same amount of time

(01:03:39):
every day, and using it wisely is really important.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
It's so true. And for a final question going off
of that, knowing what you know now, what would you
tell your twenty year old self.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Not to worry so much? It was pointless. It's not
that I had a bad start to my career, didn't.
I just look back and I think how I was
so worried about what was next and what I was
going to do, and I was trying to plan and
try to get ahead, and worry was I going to
pay the bills? And it all worked out the way
that it's supposed to. Even if I had never worried,

(01:04:14):
it would have been worked out the way that it
was supposed to. So I feel like my friend's advice
about fear not is something I wish I would have done.
And war more sunscreen always well. Thank you so much, Data.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
This was truly such an honor everybody. April twenty second,
Dana's new book comes out. Get it, keep it in
your library, revert back to it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
That's up. Thanks so much,