January 29, 2025 • 51 mins
Chris Cuomo, from NewsNation, joins Kate for a walk around the reservoir in Central Park, New York. CUOMO on NewsNation is the top-rated primetime show on the network. The two of them talk about fitness and even do a few push-ups, squats, and sprints during their time together. Chris discusses what it was like growing up in such an influential family and how it shaped him today. He discusses his time at CNN as well as the controversy with supporting his brother, Andrew Cuomo. Chris also shares his opinion on social media, the wildfires in LA and whether TikTok should be banned.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everyone, Welcome back to post run high. Today's episode
is a bit of a twist because instead of our
usual post run chat, I took a walk through Central
Park with Chris Cuomo and the conversation was truly just
too good not to share as a full podcast episode
in addition to my typical short form videos. For those
(00:23):
of you who don't know, Chris is an Emmy Award
winning journalist. He's the host of The Chris Cuomo Project,
and he's someone who has reported on some of the
most important news stories. You may know him best for
his time at CNN, but after being let go, he's
since built a new platform for deep thought provoking conversations,
and we're going to learn all about it today. Chris
(00:44):
is also a part of the legendary Cuomo family. Their
family is truly a New York staple, so it was
such an honor to be able to go on a
walk with him today. His dad, Mario Cuomo, served as
a three time governor of New York and his brother
Andrew Cuomo also served as governor. The Cuomo name really
carries a history of leadership, and Chris grew up right
in the middle of it. So during our Walk, Chris
(01:06):
opened up about his career, his family, and what keeps
him grounded through it all. I'm really excited for you
guys to hear this unfiltered conversation with Chris. He also
showed us his go to workout routine when he is
in the park, so I'm excited for you guys to
listen before we jump in. If you guys are enjoying
post r and high, make sure you subscribe to my
(01:28):
YouTube channel at kate max for more full length interviews
and behind the scene moments. And if you're not already,
follow me at kate max on social media to stay
in the loop with everything happening on the show and more.
All right, let's get into our conversation with Chris.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Hey, what's up, guys. Chris Cuomo from News Nation. I'm
from Queens, New York, and I'm walking.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I love it. I love having native New Yorkers on
the running interview show, The Walk and Interview Show Today.
So are you a big walker? Do you like going
to walks around the reservoir?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes? Usually I walk with three dogs, but when I'm
in the city, they're not here, so I walk easier
on the joints and allows me to do my phone calls,
so I can walk and talk and I often shoot
myself walking and talking about what I can tell you
guys about what I've learned that I don't want you
to repeat, uh huh. And I also do a different ways.
(02:26):
Sometimes I stop and do calisthenics, which I can do
today and show you. And sometimes I do strideouts or sprints,
and I just believe it's the best thing for me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I love walking around the reservoir. I went to Fordham.
I know you went to Fordham Loss. Yeah, we got
a little bit cammon there and I used to run
around the reservoir every single day.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh so you were one of those people who had
passed me on the left.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
On the left, I was one of those annoying people
that would run on a small path until my dad
was like, Kate, it is so rude for you to
be like bull dozing people on your run.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah. The fast people usually on this one are on
the road.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Brought us walkers. You know, we're pretty accommodating, all right,
Should you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Show us some of your paliesthetics?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Why you like to do so, I'll get out of
the way, right because you know, New Yorkers. They can
still go either way. So get down. And when I'm
doing these, everything is it's got to be easy and smooth.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Well you're doing it on your fists as well.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeastrology, easy and smooth, nice and easy. Not too many,
you know, like twenty or something like that, because I'll
just keep doing them all the way around, and every
movement I do. As you get older, you learn about
the intentionality of the movements. So it's not about number
(03:38):
or count. It's just keeping it easy, keeping it smooth.
So you do them, get up airs squats. For me,
it's a little bit more four more in it. People
hurt themselves, believe it or not, when they get older.
So do some squats, and you can ask me whatever
you want, because I'm thinking the whole time I'm off
(04:00):
and on the phone when i'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I know. Fitness has always been something that you've talked
about throughout your career, very publicly too, right.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, It's a big part of mental health and a
balance mind body, spirit, and I think it helps deal
with stress.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It absolutely does. I was just gonna say that I
feel like when you have such a busy career, it's
so important to find ways to keep yourself grounded. On
that note, I gotta say, I know you grew up
in Queens been in New York City for a while.
Your family is a staple of New York and has
been for years, which is amazing. Like, I'm just so
honored to be walking with you right now. I'm curious, like,
having grown up in New York for so many years,
(04:38):
what are the places that still kind of surprise you
and inspire you in the city.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's the people. Yeah, it's the people. The city is great.
There are a lot of great cities, but here in
New York, it's the people. And especially being a Cuomo,
you know, the legacy of the family is really uh
kind of bended to anyone. You know. One of the
(05:03):
hard things for me in the transition to doing digital
media and social media is how fractured the dynamic is,
you know, whereas the ethos for me growing up and
my mentality is that we're all family and that's how
(05:24):
New York is. Outsiders see New Yorkers as abrasive and
all of these things, but it's really just about protecting
your own I'll tell you, in this city, even with
guns and how much craziness there is with people these days.
It's rare that you see somebody being taken advantage of
in the city and people not stepping up. It happens, yeah,
(05:47):
but we show the places and times where it doesn't happen.
But a lot of the times it does. I can't
tell you how often I'm on the subway yep and
somebody's doing something wrong and like five six people will
get up and put it to a stop. It's a
special place in terms of the nature and quality of
the people, and to me, that's what makes New York
what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So I've been here now for ten years. Actually I
just hit my ten years Nice and Joy story of
lived in New York City, and I completely agree. I
think you have to live here for a long enough
amount of time where you get to see kind of
those really special New York City moments like what you
just described on the subway. I was just in la
during the fires we evacuated, and I feel like it
(06:26):
was a true testament of seeing like in times of crisis,
cities really do show up for one another and help
each other out, and the power of community is so real,
especially here in New York City.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, you'll see as you continue your journey as a storyteller.
Uh huh, that in the worst of times you see
the best of people, you can also see the worst
of people. You're getting a good laboratory on that with
the Los Angeles fires, and the more normal the people,
the less their lives are about acquiring and retaining power,
(06:58):
the more you see them being their best, sacrificing, coming
out doing what they can. And then you get the
politicians who, unfortunately, and you know, Pop, I'm sorry to
say it, but they're deserving their reputation of these days
about being all about themselves and in the business of division.
And you know, again, that's not how I was raised.
(07:18):
It's not what being a New Yorker is about. I
don't think that's what's being a human being a member
of a community is about. But you'll see that in
the worst of times people step up and show the
best of themselves.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
On that note, kind of just calling like a you know,
highlighting your dad for a second, I mean grown up
with Mario Cuomo as your dad. That's big walker, big walker.
I wish we could be walking with him right now
as well. You had an impressive dad. I'm curious, like
what were your dinner table conversations like growing up, Like
with public service something that your dad really pushed on
(07:53):
to you.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Guys helping, not service helping. You want to be a banker, fine,
what are you gonna do with the money. He was
a big fan of philosophy. He was really more of
a philosopher than a politician because he was not a
deal maker, Like he'd be like, no, this is wrong
what you want and he'd rather fight about it and
try to get the people on his side. But he
(08:15):
was a real philosopher about life. You know, a lot
of the philosophers were walkers. I often think about, well,
that's true, but running is like a skill set where
you've got to train, you got to be physically able.
Pretty much anyone can walk if they're able bodied, you know,
and you can think when you're walking, and it's been
(08:38):
shown to be a great distraction, and that's why Pop
used it is that it actually helps your process. So,
you know, he was an arguer, and I would be him,
my mother, my brother, my sisters, and I was always
kind of in the middle, which is I think how
I wound up being a questioner and a facilitator. Of
conversations as opposed to being a politician or being a
(09:02):
member of a party or something like that, because I
was always kind of like interspersed.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Walk us through what we're doing right now? More pushing.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So yeah, I just you know, I do the push ups.
It's really more about blood flow than it is about
anything else, huh. And I just.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Feel that I feel like I gotta do them with you.
I don't know how you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Here's what matters. No, No, do them on your regular hands.
It's fine. Yeah, you want to set your shoulders down
and together, so you want to feel that your arms
are kind of like that, and then holding yourself like
as a plank. Yeah, you want your arms to come
in about a twenty five thirty degree angle next to
your body like this, not too wide out, like bring
your elbows in a little bit. More practice doing them
(09:42):
like this, and you'll see that over time you're using
more of your chest than your lats.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You're kicking my ass.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
No, that's good. You did enough. Don't do too many,
and then we're not with the air squads. You have
better mobility right because of your age. So I just
teach people you're trying to keep yourself as upright as
you can as you can, and it's sitting in a
chair and letting your knees travel out from yesterday. My
(10:09):
body's killing me.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So what did you do yesterday?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
A lot of weight training and.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
You're balancing weight training with calistatics.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, and then I spar and I fight train, so
you know I have to put on special head gear
because I'm too pretty.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
You're sparring? Well kind of is this like? Is it
like jiu.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Jitsu or no? It's self defense?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Okay, talk to you about that.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Here's the difference. All fight systems, and there are a
lot of great ones, have rules, techniques, expectations, standards. Self
defense is you don't think you can outrun me, which
you can, but and you have that in your hand,
(10:57):
so you take it and bash me in the head
with it. That's self defense. Self defense is any way
you gotta do it, you do it, especially for women,
is that you learn his size is almost irrelevant, and
you can take out any threat. One you can avoid,
(11:20):
you can get away, but then if you have to engage,
you can do somebody dirty easy.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And I'm not saying to do it, but I'm saying,
God forbid. If you need to.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Did any of you come up to Chris on the
streets of New York be prepared.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, I'll tell you something that I'll word carefully, the
idea that for me, for somebody, the rules aren't the same,
and everybody will think that means you get away with things.
My experience has more often been the opposite. That I've
been in situations where people definitely ask for what happened
(11:59):
and I wound up having pay because you know, that's
how our society works. So self defense is what works
for me.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's great for my head, and thinking about it, I
happen to be pretty bad at it, even though I've
been doing it for fifteen twenty years. I'm slow. I
let people get too close because of what we do
for a living, right, and I kind of have to
be the victim in order to survive any following legal situation.
(12:28):
So it's very frustrating the coaches that I work with,
But I like it, and I think it's great for
women as an empowerment principle, right that it doesn't matter
about size, you can take care of yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, and just really quickly on this note, because I
think It's a really interesting topic, especially since you've been
in the public eye for so many years. Yeah, I'm
sure you've had some crazy stories where people are approaching
you on the streets. It's just the nature of the business.
So I'm curious, like, do you have any stories that.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, so I have so many stories. I mean, I'll
give you an interesting take on the difference between men
and women. When men see me in person, they almost
always change their disposition. Now, I know when you put
this out and the comments, guys will be like, I'd
love to meet you, I'd beat your ass. My experience
in person is men are very simple animals and they
(13:19):
see that, oh I didn't know he was this size,
and that kind of is it for them, not women?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You are a good guy, like I didn't. I had
no idea what to expect, and I was like, oh,
he definitely is in shape, which's awesome for the show.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I'm in shape, pear shape. If women have a problem
with you, they don't care what size you are, how
physically intimidating you are. They come right up and they say,
here's what I don't like about what you said, or
I want to know why you see it this way.
And it's a really interesting education on how we are
as human beings in terms of the genders. You know,
(13:53):
men are very simple animals. But I've had lots of
people tell me what they want to say, and I
signed up for that, and I'm usually nine times out
of ten really enthusiastic about the engagement, whether it's positive
or negative. It's just when I have my kids. When
I have my kids and you run your mouth, you're
(14:14):
gonna get what you ask for. And I don't know
why that is, because intuitively, I would think i'd probably
be on my best behavior when I'm with my kids,
but that's not what it brings out of me. I
don't know what it is. Maybe it's the mama bear thing.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, it's definitely the mama bear thing. And it's like,
when you're out in public, you don't want people coming
up and harassing not only you, but your kids because
it impacts them.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, And you know, that's one of the things you
have to know is that as you continue going here,
you're getting a nice following for yourself. You're signing up
for something which is a level of scrutiny commentary on you,
and not just the easy stuff that you have to
deal with as a woman anyway, which is objectification and
all that stuff. But you're signing up for judgment, so
(14:58):
you have to remember that is that you and I
don't have the same right. I don't think anybody has
a right to not be offended, but we really don't.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Your advice for that, because like you're right, like, this
is an industry that I'm so interested in being in,
and you know, I'm really just getting started with it.
So being able to speak to you is like a
dream come true because I'm like, you have the best
advice possible for this. What is your advice on dealing
with like hard situations when you're in the media, because
there's so many of us out there content creators that
(15:29):
are kind of newly in this space of judgment almost right,
So you.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Got two dynamics, right, You got knowledge and wisdom. I
saw this clip the other day that really put it perfectly.
Knowledge is that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is
knowing not to put a tomato and fruit salad. And
the way that relates to this conversation is I can
tell you how to be, but it's really about getting
(15:55):
to understand yourself and what you tell yourself, not everybody else.
You know, here's what you got going for you. In
the age that we're in right now with social media,
I mean, look at the fires. They were at a
point where they could have gotten even worse, but interest
in the story was already flagging. People move on. So
(16:15):
while it's huge for you what's happening to you, nothing
is ever as good or bad as it seems in
the moment. Remember that, and just keep telling yourself when
things are happening that you don't like. You signed up
for this. You could go do something else, and that's
your choice. And once you know that it was your choice,
(16:38):
you understand what you control, which is how you are,
and what you don't control, which is how they are,
and you accept it and you go. And you'll see
a lot of that in life, partnering, parenting, the ups
and downs, the travails of whatever it is, the vicissitudes
of life. You know, you have to just take it
(17:00):
as it comes and realize what you control and what
you don't. And the easiest thing for you will be
that you always control your own attitude and reaction towards
whatever comes you.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It from being in the public guy. When you first
started out. I mean, I know that when you were
thirteen your dad became governor, right, it was I think
when you were thirteen.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I was like twelve.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, so you were used to public scrutiny. But I'm curious, like,
were there any lessons that you had to learn kind
of when you got into the media space.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
One of the reasons I'd never be in politics myself
is your whole family. I'll do push ups, your whole
family signs up, so it's like you're making a decision
for all of you, you know, And I didn't realize
that until I lived it. And also that service is
(17:52):
a privilege. I mean, this is amazing what we get
to do, and politicians it's a different order of service
and what they get to do and what they mean
to us. So, you know, we've lost sight of that
because of how nasty everybody is now and how they're
(18:12):
all playing for advantage and just playing the division because
it's such an easy cultural commodity. But in my experience
growing up, my father felt so blessed. Yeah, first generation American,
you know, parents didn't speak English. Everybody looked at him.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I didn't realize that, Okay, you.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Know, he wasn't even considered a white guy. You know,
I'm white right. One generation ago, my father was a
swarthy ethnic. He was mercurial, Mario, constant mob questions, and
he was assumed to be hot tempered and passionate, which
(18:56):
was just code for type. Right, you're an Italian, You
people are different. Now, one generation letter later, you assimilate,
you get into the whiteness of America. Now you're just
another white guy, and you can really say whatever you
want about Italians Italian I do.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Oh wow, that's impressive. What was it like grown up
Italian in Queens, New York.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well, you know, it's a very unique experience being Italian.
You know, it's an extraordinary culture that is all encompassing.
It's not just language, food, custom I think that there's
something deeper. I think that there's a way. I think
that there's a persuasion. I don't think it's not just
(19:42):
get the fuck out of here and you know, make
it not a good you know, all those silly with
an Italian they would call capone Italian. You know, this
kind of low rent, low class, but there's a manner
of kind of passionate pursuit, protection of family, understanding, and
(20:03):
embracing the romanticism of life.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
You know, it's not that we just love to eat.
You're in all of the abundance of flavors, of combinations,
of time, of effort, of that alchemy of you know,
heart and ingredients. Right, that goes in to making a
meal and what it is to sit and eat. And
(20:31):
how many times does a kid you get corrected? Slow down? Yeah,
enjoy what you're eating, take a sip, try some of this,
and it's a way of appreciating life. It's an ethos. Yeah,
and there is something to being Italian. I'm very, very
proud of it. And you know, my father it meant
(20:54):
so much to him. You would used to say he
was profoundly Italian, and not just because his parents were
Italian and you know, they really didn't speak the language.
Certainly in today's politics, my my grandparents would have been
seen as unwanted. They weren't illegal, but it was way
(21:18):
easier to get into the country. I mean, it was
very hard to get into the country. I'm just saying
you didn't have to run across a fence or some
shit like that, is what I'm saying. And they came there.
The name changed they were debased. It was put in
the ghetto. They were offered very little help, not like today,
(21:38):
they were ostracized.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I grew up in an Italian American family as well
in New Jersey. My grandparents were in Brooklyn for many
years and parts of Queens as well, So it's amazing
to think that they had such a different experience, you know, when.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
You're Italian on both sides. Look how far our people
have come. Look how fine your features are. Look how
sophisticated you are. Look at me, I still get I mean,
you're perfect. Look at me, I'm still like a mister
potato head. I still have like big roundish features, you know,
much more derivative of the homeland. You see how progress
can happen.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
The Italian American people out there are going to love
what you just said about being Italian like.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
That, but it really is different now. I'm not saying
that the Irish don't feel like that. The Irish have
their own way, the Polish have their own way, the
Jews have their own way. You know. The reason I
have been such a staunch defender of Israel's right to
defend itself is because of my born experience and lived
(22:38):
experience as miss Spooka as they say in Yiddish, which
is extended family of Jews. I have Jews in my family,
my people in my life, the family I choose are Jews,
and I know how they are preyed upon, and so
it's personal for me. I have to be fair, I
(22:59):
have to look at it. Obviously, there are many different
ways to look at that conflict, but there is something
about being an ethnic that is lost in today's whiteness.
We're all just white. Look, I think one of the
lessons we're living right now as a community is that
I thought that Jews had assimilated into whiteness the same
way that I have as an Italian or as Irish,
or as Polish or as German, and they haven't. To
(23:22):
me now just makes them more special, more of a
protected class of people, you know what.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Like the way you described the Italian culture, I feel
like relates in a lot of ways to what it
means to be Jewish right there.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh yeah, we oriented with one huge difference. What a
legacy of persecution. Look, Italians have had their own hard time,
certainly in this country. But you know, it's like saying
that calling me Fredo is the same as the N word,
which once I was trying to make people understand why
Italian slurs are so hurtful. But it's not like the
(23:53):
N word, and I actually analogized to it early on
I help people understand, and I realize, no, there is
no link to the word and a period of oppression
that was completely inhuman And for the Jews it's the
same thing. So the Jews have a resilience that is
born of an awesome but ugly motivator, which is existential threat.
(24:18):
And I don't think that people get that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I did an interview with Dana Prino and she told
me like one of the things her dad always did
was the dog lady had to Yes, she had to
read the headlines of you know, the newspaper kind of
every day and then have be able to have a
discussion about one of the articles with her dad. And
I'm curious, like, growing up, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
No, my father was way more insular because everybody knew
what he was doing, you know, and those were big
items on the table. His talks were more about why
that was the only question he cared about, uh huh,
And that's the only care question I care about. In journalism.
Everybody else can tell you who, what, where and when.
It's all about why, about why things are happening. And
(25:01):
for my father, it was always more personal about what
you were doing with your life, with your time with
your family, with your kids, with your partner, and why
why were you doing it? And any position you had,
it was what's motivating that position. So right now everybody's
in a what mode right, which is politically, what party,
(25:22):
what's your pet peeve, what's your point of division? And
my father would have said, stop and think about it.
That's why I'm not just against the party system. I
believe that the hope for our democracy is in people
being independent, critical thinkers. And that was actually the best
sign of this last election. I found Biden and Trump
both to be woefully lacking as representatives of what America
(25:43):
can generate in leaders, but more people voted as independent
than we've ever seen before. It's amazing, and I really
think that that's the promise. My pop wouldn't have liked
it because he was a Democrat, but his party doesn't
exist anymore, and the Republicans that I married into their
party doesn't exist anymore, So you know, I think he'd
(26:04):
be all right with it? Over time, democratization of media
good is more, always better, not necessarily. What do we
have now? An accountability gap? Okay, people say legacy media,
mainstream media, what do they really mean. Don't watch them,
watch me. They don't tell you the truth. I've been
in it a long time. I have a podcast. It's
(26:24):
been doing well. I'm surprised. It's great. However, I have
learned something I screw up on the podcast, which is
really easy. Because digital media is so much about provocation, right, provocativeness.
Where's the accountability? You're gonna get owned on Twitter? There's
(26:45):
gonna be a community. Note. When you work at the
Wall Street Journal, you fuck up, they sue you. Their standards.
There's accountability. You're gonna lose. You're gonna lose your job.
We don't have that in independent media yet, and it matters.
For instance, I'll give you just a simple for instance.
(27:09):
You will not hear someone on New Nation, certainly not
on my watch, say there was no water in the
pumps in Pacific Palisades. Why because that's not true? That's why? Well,
what was true? They had pressure issues? What's the difference?
(27:29):
One is about supply and miss or malfeasance by management.
The other is a circumstantial reality of what they were
up against, meaning they were fighting on hilltops, a number
of fires and intensity of fires that their infrastructure was
(27:50):
not set up for, and what they say, no infrastructure
could have been set up for. Now that's the truth.
So why do you hear so many.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Click bit headlines?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Almost right, no water in the pumps newsome bad. I
can't say that, why it's not true? And I'm going
to have like ten people call me from in house.
You shouldn't have said it in real time, in my ear,
And that's why on my show very often I stop
(28:26):
whatever I'm saying and I'll say, look, here's why I'm
saying it. This is what he said to me, this
is what I was told. You don't have that an
independent media. Now, look, I don't want a bunch of
them all together. Verry wise, great outfit, free press. I
know people don't like her position on Israel, but again
I think she's articulated it well to explain the perspective.
(28:46):
It's very personal to her and it should be. Schellenberger
Taibi and there are a bunch of other independent journalists
who come from the world of journalism and know the
skills and know the trade. But guys with like a
hat like this sitting in front of a desk with
a microphone and cans on, who are telling you it's
(29:07):
all a conspiracy and COVID was a joke. They're getting
clickbait because they're playing on people's fears and prejudice and
they're getting a following, but they're full of shit.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I feel like there's so many issues. There's over communication,
there's people having shortened attention spans where they're not willing
to really do the research. They read a title and
they take it for you know, facts.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
And what they and what they do is look. The
easiest thing to do in the business, yeah, is to say, hey,
I heard how any example, I heard how your husband
was talking to you. I heard how you were talking
to your husband and taking it out of context. And
you'll be like, no, you don't know, that's not what
we meant. But the audience will never get the benefit
of that, and it's over and that that version of
(29:51):
you is now out there because of me, and you
can't fix it. You know that expression on ringing the bell?
So look again. Democratization of media good Okay, more ideas,
more better. The idea of censorship is anathema. A democracy,
you have to tolerate the shit. I have to tolerate
(30:12):
people having way more reach than I've ever had, no
matter what show I was on, when I know they
don't deserve it and don't warrant it with what they're saying.
That's democracy and the best ideas will win. You cannot censor,
and we're making that mistake more and more. I even
think it's happening on Twitter now under the new management.
I think that they are curating what they want. For instance,
(30:36):
Elon with this water thing, it was all over Twitter,
no water in the hydrants. He then goes to talk
to the firefighters, shoots a video of himself and they
tell him it's wrong. He doesn't blast that out and
say here's the truth. Why agendas? You want to do
another lapping?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Where do you think media is now going? And where
do you think people that want to be in the
space and want to be like me are like aspiring journalists,
where should we be positioning ourselves?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Well, look' that's tough, right, I mean, that's the burden
of choice. You have so many different platforms now and
I get that TikTok has been a more monetizable platform
for a lot of people. I don't understand their algorithms
and why their numbers seem to be so much bigger
than every other platform. My daughter became TikTok famous during COVID.
She did some clip that was out there that all
(31:31):
of you were doing, and her version of it got
like millions and millions of reviews. Whatever. I don't know
why their algorithms are what they are. But the more
important question to me is I don't know that the
proof is there that TikTok is this agent of China.
I have a problem with foreign interference in our democracy.
I don't know that TikTok is evidence of it. So
I think social media is evidence of it. But I
(31:53):
don't know that TikTok deserves scrutiny more than anybody else.
And I expect Congress to push back the ban, largely
because the right had a lot of energy on it.
Now Trump is against it, and I think that they're
about fealty more than loyalty to any principle. So I
think that TikTok's going to at least survive through what
the Supreme Court reckons, if not longer. But I think
(32:15):
that in terms of making your personal choices, I think
you've got to go in as many any directions early
on as you can, and then figure out what's working
for you and do more of it. You know, very
often young people are told pursue your passion. I don't
believe in that. I believe pursue what will get you
paid and be passionate about it, That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
But I do believe.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Double back there, right, But I'm saying, like, let's say
you love to do this and it ain't working, and
somebody offers you a job doing something else that pays
the bills and supports the family and gives you a
chance for advancement that you want, What are you gonna do?
Keep doing this? That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I feel always been like, figure out what you're passionate about,
and you know, if it's something that you're passionate about
and there's a way that you think you can monetize
it or figure out how to build a business around it,
that's amazing because I really do believe in the ethos
of do what you love.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
But yeah, but you gotta get paid.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You gotta get paid to do it, and I am
a total realist. And when I first started the show,
I have a family that comes from like completely traditional
finance family. My brothers went DL. My parents are total
like they push academics. So I was working in, you know, marketing.
I had advertising agency jobs. And when I started doing this,
my parents thought I was bat shit. They were like,
this girl's out of her mind with her a little
(33:34):
tripod going on runs of people. And then it started
working and my mom's like, did I quit my job
to work with you and help you prep for your interviews.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I wouldn't do that. What I'd ask your mom to
do is to figure out how to pick up advertising
and financing so you can expand the brand, you know,
And if she had stuff like that, that could be
really helpful. But I do. Look, I think that there's
got to be a synthesis of passion and practicality, and
I think your generation struggles with that because you got
a generation of parents like me who want to give
(34:05):
you everything we didn't have, and a lot of it
isn't material, it's emotional and psychological. And that's why so
many of you you're a little older now, but so
many of you moved back getting after college, which would
have been unfathomable for me. When I left my house
at seventeen, the idea that I would ever live with
my parents again would have been only if I was
(34:27):
like hit by a car or something. Absolutely, and now
it's very different. I also see it differently. I would
love for my kids to move back in, but I
don't know that that's best for them, right, No.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It's so true, And I'm curious, like, based on that.
You know, you've been walking the streets of New York
for a long time, these mean streets.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Out in these streets.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
If you could go back and tell your younger self something,
your twenty something year old self who just graduated university
is now working in the real world, Like, what would
your advice be to your younger self?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Okay, so what you're supposed to say is if I
changed anything, I wouldn't be where I am right, and
everything happens for a reason, right, here's my answer, I
would change everything. And oh, but then you wouldn't have
your kids. Maybe their spirits would be better off. I
don't know. What I'm saying is if I had a
chance to go back, I've made so many mistakes. I've
(35:19):
There have been so many times where I've taken risks
that didn't make sense and that I didn't take risks
that I should have. And sure, if there's an education
and all that, you can rationalize it any what you want.
But you have to take risk. You have to and
you cannot have a fear of failure. You can have
(35:42):
a very real fear of your inability to overcome. Yeah,
you are gonna fail, You're gonna fall, You're going to lose.
These things are gonna happen a lot, and you are
gonna have to use them. And I wish I had
known that sooner. Now as a parent, I'll give you
(36:03):
guys advice heading into the baby game. You fight any
way you can to keep that kid from social media
as long as you can. This band in Australia no
one under sixteen. I think it's genius. Yeah, our parents,
my parents were afraid of the television, the boob tube,
eat your brain. Nothing compared to this. Social media makes
(36:27):
my kids think things, value things, not value things that
are It's so hard to offset and it is getting
the better of us. It is not a tool for
us the way it should be. We are being used.
We're being used by people with more sophistication who understand
(36:50):
our proclivities and our weaknesses and they're using them against us.
And I see it and I don't know what to
do about it, but I know it's real.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, No, social media is a scary place, especially for
young kids. So it's a great point.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Look, I know it's a great it's an economic zone,
helps people connect, but you got to.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Look at the data exactly, have to look at the
data and like, at a certain point over communication isn't
necessarily a good time.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Why are people spending more time alone than they used
to because they don't have to go out and be
with people anymore. They can just see them on there.
And I was just talking to somebody about this last night. Yeah,
I mean, we got to figure out a way to
let people know how much of the content's fake. Not
just AI, but that she doesn't really look like that,
(37:39):
he doesn't really look like that. That's not his face,
you know what I mean, Those aren't his abs. You know,
there's a lot out there that's for gazy, and people
are being sold things, this plan, this supplement, this thing,
so more is not always better, and I think we're
working our way through that with social you got to
(38:00):
balance that with not censoring ideas certainly of a political nature.
But it's tough and we're not on the right side
of it right now. No.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, it's like this new world that we're not going
to know the ramifications of it till or, you know,
fifteen years from where we are right now, because we're
really just in the beginning of like doom scrolling and
people being so connected to their felling brain rot. We
all like a little bit of dooms growing. Are there
any videos that you'll like enjoy watching if you're ever
on social media or not? Really?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yes, So here are my bad habits, just some of them.
I honestly believe. I mean this. Yeah, I could shoe
a horse. I'm telling you, I could shoe a horse.
I can fix an abscess and a cow's hoof. I
(38:51):
know how to use the tools.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Wait, I love those videos. I know exactly where.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
The farrier videos farriers. I don't know that I could
get that things off between my legs. I don't know
that I'd be able to do that, and I don't
know that i'd have the strength and that those guys
have in their grip to do as much as they
do as many. But I'm telling you, I've learned how
to do it. I know how to do it. I
(39:15):
know how to break the nails, I know which pincher
that is, and I know how to get the shoe off.
I know how to scrape it. I know how to
clip it. I know how to carve out the horn.
I know that it's called horn, and I know how
to burn that shoe. I know how to put it
back on, bang it flat. I did bodywork on cars.
I can figure it out. So I watch those This
(39:38):
lawn mowing guy, I'm you know, I can't see it enough.
I love watching him cut people's lawns. And I love
that there are all these jobs, the trades that people
don't want to do because they think they're beneath them.
But now we're making people millionaires watching them do their
jobs online. Plumbers, welders, carpenters, framers. I love this renewed
(40:06):
respect for the trades. I think that's actually a big
problem for our economy is we've lost the artists in class.
And I love seeing these guys out there who are
carrying the flame and letting people know, man, you are
so much better than someone who just works with their mouth.
You know that you can do shit with your hands.
I mean, as a man, it's like such a forgotten standard.
(40:28):
You know, like you're not surprised if some guy your
age can't change a tire or doesn't know how to
open his hood.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
But if I asked my dad to do any of
that stuff for me, I'd be.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Like, I know he's got it, and we've kind of
lost that now. Look I was raised with it very specifically.
My brother's a master mechanic. He taught me a lot
of things. He taught me to figure it out. If
you tell me what to do, I can do it.
Simple things like maintenance fixing. I can do it. These
bolts are loose, this bracket has to come off. I
(41:00):
got to replace this part. I can do those things.
Andrew can listen to an engine and tell you what's
going on with the vehicle. Andrew can ride in your
car and tell you what's wrong with the suspension. And
that is the difference between a diagnostic mechanic, a master,
(41:24):
and a wrencher, which is what I am. And He's
been like that all his life with everything. Andrew is
a fixer. That's why he was so effective in government.
Andrew's not the best politician in the world. He's not
a smooth he's not a silk tongue. You know, he's not.
Everybody loves him because he's figuring out a way to
(41:46):
make everybody think that he's their best friend. That's not
who my brother is. If my brother likes you, you
know it, and you can count on him. If he
doesn't like you, you know it, and you can count on
that too. But in government, he fixes and I know it.
I've seen it, and people can look. Everybody has their opinions. Again,
he signed up for that. He signed up for the scrutiny,
(42:10):
he signed up for the attacks, he signed up for
the takedown, fair unfair, like it or not, that's how
that game is played, especially in his party. But he's
a fixer, and he taught me how to fix. I'm
not as good as he, but and I don't. I
sign up for a lot of shit. But I would
never sign up for what he does. I would never
sign up for politics. I mean, I'm exposed to it
(42:31):
enough as it is. I don't know how anybody goes
into elected office right now. Yeah, I mean, it's basically
like it's you know, rubbing peanut butter all over yourself
and then walking into a pack of pitbulls.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
It's it, really, I mean, it's a suicide trap. It's crazy.
But I always have respected how much love and respect
and support you've given your brother. I think it's amazing,
and I think it's how family support, so should support
one another.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
You know, people say to me what you just did
pretty often. I don't know any other way to be.
I think it's really important in life to learn the
lesson right you're gonna fail. The idea of learn, of
win or learn. I like that not easy to do,
but like, what would I do differently? Yeah, I mean
(43:14):
I thought about that a lot. I had a lot
of time to think about it after I got shit canned.
And what was I gonna do? I told people on TV.
Obviously I can't cover my brother. Obviously I support him. Yeah,
my boss is new. I never went after anybody. I
didn't do anything illegal. I didn't do anything wrong ethically
(43:35):
to anybody. I didn't try to help anyone have their
reputation hurt. What was I supposed to do? Not help him,
not talk to his team, not talk to him, not
give him ideas not do what I knew is tradecraft
about what was being done to him in the media.
I just I don't understand how I would have done
it differently. And the only part of it that bothers
(43:56):
me because I live with my own choices, and I've
paid a price, no question about it. I'm paying it
right up until this very moment. But I really for
all the people who say, you should have known that,
you don't get involved with a political situation when you're
a journalist. What would you do if it was your brother? Yeah, Now,
the only answer that is a good one other than
(44:18):
my own is quit. I offered to quit multiple times
and was told it wasn't necessary, and then in fact
it was crazy. Now how much of that was because
I was the number one guy at CNN, I don't know.
But that's the only answer that people come back to
me with. I would have quit and just gone and
done that with him. Okay, I offered that, they told
(44:39):
me it wasn't necessary. Now, what would you do if
you can't change it and it's not helping you in
the present? Fuck it? Just roll on, roll on. There's
plenty more coming. If you want. We can do some
five five fives. You ever do those? Like five strides?
Five strides real easy? So I don't pull my hamspring
five strides middle, five strides seventy percent. You know what
(45:02):
I'm saying. I don't run all out, especially in this weather,
because every I just get my break all the time.
It's like it's like I'm made of glass. If you
wanna try, when you wanna situate yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
All right, we're running, y'all.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
So they very easy, non dynamic, right, So it's just
five strides. You just a one two three four five.
You pick it up one two three four five and
then about seven two three four five, then settle it
down and then you walk.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
What do you do? Just turn off?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Fifteen? Is it? You know?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I do a lot of things. I mean, you know,
one of the things that I probably have going for
me is that I am not really interested in myself
the way most of us in this business are. And
I married somebody who has no interest in what I
do as a career in terms of defining hers. She
runs her own business. She's a boss, and she's an entrepreneur,
(46:07):
and she's deep and soulful and about all these things
that I'm not So my escape is one I'm set
up to not want to pay attention to myself self loath,
and two I kind of fade into the wheat my kids,
their lives, her which she's about, my wife, my friends,
(46:30):
those pursuits. So I'll be writing something for tonight, but
I'll be just as interested about where the tuna bite
is and how I'm gonna get there and when I'm
gonna get there. And that's what I do is that
I don't make it all about how many followers I
got this week or what the ratings on the show
(46:50):
are wherever it is. I just you got to be
about something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Absolutely. What I've loved about just kind of dabbling in
storytelling and journalism and you know this way is that
it doesn't have to be about yourself, which I think
is the best part about the job, but also the
worst part is then sometimes you get put on a stake.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Well, it's a challenge for you. Is digital media is
a little different. Individual outlet is a little different because
you are the brand, right this is the brand for
me News Nation. People are watching for you as much
as they're going to watch for the guest. I want
to get set up. We'll do another five five five,
so you haven't do it. Let's do it all right,
So five easy, five medium, and then at just about
(47:34):
seventy you know I'm ready yep one two three four
five one thefts two three four five knees and drive
one two three four good good.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Chris would crush me in the sprint.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
No, I'd probably pull a muscle in about nine strides.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, we are just kind of talking about one of
the things that I have to get better at is
talking about myself.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
More so it's different for you than it is for me.
I have specific things in my life that everybody knows about, Okay,
so I discuss life through the lens of someone who's
lived ups and downs right as everybody does. I'm just
ahead of you because I'm older and I've had more
shit happen to me. You have a different bar, which
is you have to connect with people where they are
(48:27):
in the moment, with their ambitions, and the way for
you to do that is to find common ground. So
you want to avoid what comes easiest to people, which
is talking about what makes you special, because a lot
of other people may not have that. So you have
to figure out what that common ambition is. Whether it's like,
(48:48):
let's say something simple, I want to run a half marathon, yeah,
and so do you, And I'm going to show you
how I got to do it so you can do
it too. That's a sweet spot and you have to
find that with all of these things. How let's say
what happened at the fires? It's got to be something
that is relatable to a common question, a common concern,
(49:11):
that kind of vibe, and that's what you have to do,
and life will present them to you, you know, as
a as a young couple, but you're also gonna have
to remember what to keep.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Your own exactly. I have a hard time talking about myself,
to be totally honest, because I love so much to
tell other people's stories and that's kind of the craft
that I want to hoe. Sometimes I'm like, what if
people want to know about me? And that's where I
get it wrong, because I know a lot of my
audiences are like, tell us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
They're gonna want to know about you. They're gonna want
to know about this. He's good looking, so you're gonna
have to squeeze him in a little bit. I agree,
and look and just go with it, and just remember
that there's also a big part of it that's just you,
that's just your friends, that only you guys have to know.
That's your life. It's not for anybody else. Be very
guarded about that. The intimacy matters it, the privacy matter.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Guys. We've done two laps around the reservoir. You're in
Central Park, sout thirty degrees. I'm cult, but I gotta
ask you.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
It's because you're skinny, if you were build for winter
like me two hundred and thirty pounds of bad intentions,
or you're walking around forever, I'm like a human igloo.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, I get to do more like that, I really know.
But what is a quote or motto that you live
by that.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I live by? Can't give it to you because I'm
not consistent enough. But I will tell you I have
such a romantic attachment to what Teddy Roosevelt articulated as
the Man in the Arena. Oh, I love it, and
I guess it was Kipling who put it together in
his famous poem. If I really believe that life is
(50:45):
about endurance and resilience and perseverance, I mean it's all
the comeback, all the time. Everything in life is lapses
when you're not who you needed to be, when you're
not how you needed to be, and what you do
with it, And to realize it is not the critical accounts,
it is the person who is in there making the effort,
(51:07):
and that life doesn't always reward the right thing, it
often punishes it. The grind is the only glory there
is the effort, the ability to know I tried, I
did what I could. I helped this situation. I help myself,
I help my family, I help what matters and whatever
happens is out of my control. Being that person who's
(51:29):
fighting that fight means everything to me. So I came
back after getting fired. I wasn't going to, and I
got convinced by people I care about that I had
something I needed to give
Hi, everyone, Welcome back to post run high. Today's episode
is a bit of a twist because instead of our
usual post run chat, I took a walk through Central
Park with Chris Cuomo and the conversation was truly just
too good not to share as a full podcast episode
in addition to my typical short form videos. For those
(00:23):
of you who don't know, Chris is an Emmy Award
winning journalist. He's the host of The Chris Cuomo Project,
and he's someone who has reported on some of the
most important news stories. You may know him best for
his time at CNN, but after being let go, he's
since built a new platform for deep thought provoking conversations,
and we're going to learn all about it today. Chris
(00:44):
is also a part of the legendary Cuomo family. Their
family is truly a New York staple, so it was
such an honor to be able to go on a
walk with him today. His dad, Mario Cuomo, served as
a three time governor of New York and his brother
Andrew Cuomo also served as governor. The Cuomo name really
carries a history of leadership, and Chris grew up right
in the middle of it. So during our Walk, Chris
(01:06):
opened up about his career, his family, and what keeps
him grounded through it all. I'm really excited for you
guys to hear this unfiltered conversation with Chris. He also
showed us his go to workout routine when he is
in the park, so I'm excited for you guys to
listen before we jump in. If you guys are enjoying
post r and high, make sure you subscribe to my
(01:28):
YouTube channel at kate max for more full length interviews
and behind the scene moments. And if you're not already,
follow me at kate max on social media to stay
in the loop with everything happening on the show and more.
All right, let's get into our conversation with Chris.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Hey, what's up, guys. Chris Cuomo from News Nation. I'm
from Queens, New York, and I'm walking.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I love it. I love having native New Yorkers on
the running interview show, The Walk and Interview Show Today.
So are you a big walker? Do you like going
to walks around the reservoir?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes? Usually I walk with three dogs, but when I'm
in the city, they're not here, so I walk easier
on the joints and allows me to do my phone calls,
so I can walk and talk and I often shoot
myself walking and talking about what I can tell you
guys about what I've learned that I don't want you
to repeat, uh huh. And I also do a different ways.
(02:26):
Sometimes I stop and do calisthenics, which I can do
today and show you. And sometimes I do strideouts or sprints,
and I just believe it's the best thing for me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I love walking around the reservoir. I went to Fordham.
I know you went to Fordham Loss. Yeah, we got
a little bit cammon there and I used to run
around the reservoir every single day.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh so you were one of those people who had
passed me on the left.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
On the left, I was one of those annoying people
that would run on a small path until my dad
was like, Kate, it is so rude for you to
be like bull dozing people on your run.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah. The fast people usually on this one are on
the road.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Brought us walkers. You know, we're pretty accommodating, all right,
Should you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Show us some of your paliesthetics?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Why you like to do so, I'll get out of
the way, right because you know, New Yorkers. They can
still go either way. So get down. And when I'm
doing these, everything is it's got to be easy and smooth.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Well you're doing it on your fists as well.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeastrology, easy and smooth, nice and easy. Not too many,
you know, like twenty or something like that, because I'll
just keep doing them all the way around, and every
movement I do. As you get older, you learn about
the intentionality of the movements. So it's not about number
(03:38):
or count. It's just keeping it easy, keeping it smooth.
So you do them, get up airs squats. For me,
it's a little bit more four more in it. People
hurt themselves, believe it or not, when they get older.
So do some squats, and you can ask me whatever
you want, because I'm thinking the whole time I'm off
(04:00):
and on the phone when i'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I know. Fitness has always been something that you've talked
about throughout your career, very publicly too, right.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, It's a big part of mental health and a
balance mind body, spirit, and I think it helps deal
with stress.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It absolutely does. I was just gonna say that I
feel like when you have such a busy career, it's
so important to find ways to keep yourself grounded. On
that note, I gotta say, I know you grew up
in Queens been in New York City for a while.
Your family is a staple of New York and has
been for years, which is amazing. Like, I'm just so
honored to be walking with you right now. I'm curious, like,
having grown up in New York for so many years,
(04:38):
what are the places that still kind of surprise you
and inspire you in the city.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's the people. Yeah, it's the people. The city is great.
There are a lot of great cities, but here in
New York, it's the people. And especially being a Cuomo,
you know, the legacy of the family is really uh
kind of bended to anyone. You know. One of the
(05:03):
hard things for me in the transition to doing digital
media and social media is how fractured the dynamic is,
you know, whereas the ethos for me growing up and
my mentality is that we're all family and that's how
(05:24):
New York is. Outsiders see New Yorkers as abrasive and
all of these things, but it's really just about protecting
your own I'll tell you, in this city, even with
guns and how much craziness there is with people these days.
It's rare that you see somebody being taken advantage of
in the city and people not stepping up. It happens, yeah,
(05:47):
but we show the places and times where it doesn't happen.
But a lot of the times it does. I can't
tell you how often I'm on the subway yep and
somebody's doing something wrong and like five six people will
get up and put it to a stop. It's a
special place in terms of the nature and quality of
the people, and to me, that's what makes New York
what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So I've been here now for ten years. Actually I
just hit my ten years Nice and Joy story of
lived in New York City, and I completely agree. I
think you have to live here for a long enough
amount of time where you get to see kind of
those really special New York City moments like what you
just described on the subway. I was just in la
during the fires we evacuated, and I feel like it
(06:26):
was a true testament of seeing like in times of crisis,
cities really do show up for one another and help
each other out, and the power of community is so real,
especially here in New York City.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, you'll see as you continue your journey as a storyteller.
Uh huh, that in the worst of times you see
the best of people, you can also see the worst
of people. You're getting a good laboratory on that with
the Los Angeles fires, and the more normal the people,
the less their lives are about acquiring and retaining power,
(06:58):
the more you see them being their best, sacrificing, coming
out doing what they can. And then you get the
politicians who, unfortunately, and you know, Pop, I'm sorry to
say it, but they're deserving their reputation of these days
about being all about themselves and in the business of division.
And you know, again, that's not how I was raised.
(07:18):
It's not what being a New Yorker is about. I
don't think that's what's being a human being a member
of a community is about. But you'll see that in
the worst of times people step up and show the
best of themselves.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
On that note, kind of just calling like a you know,
highlighting your dad for a second, I mean grown up
with Mario Cuomo as your dad. That's big walker, big walker.
I wish we could be walking with him right now
as well. You had an impressive dad. I'm curious, like
what were your dinner table conversations like growing up, Like
with public service something that your dad really pushed on
(07:53):
to you.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Guys helping, not service helping. You want to be a banker, fine,
what are you gonna do with the money. He was
a big fan of philosophy. He was really more of
a philosopher than a politician because he was not a
deal maker, Like he'd be like, no, this is wrong
what you want and he'd rather fight about it and
try to get the people on his side. But he
(08:15):
was a real philosopher about life. You know, a lot
of the philosophers were walkers. I often think about, well,
that's true, but running is like a skill set where
you've got to train, you got to be physically able.
Pretty much anyone can walk if they're able bodied, you know,
and you can think when you're walking, and it's been
(08:38):
shown to be a great distraction, and that's why Pop
used it is that it actually helps your process. So,
you know, he was an arguer, and I would be him,
my mother, my brother, my sisters, and I was always
kind of in the middle, which is I think how
I wound up being a questioner and a facilitator. Of
conversations as opposed to being a politician or being a
(09:02):
member of a party or something like that, because I
was always kind of like interspersed.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Walk us through what we're doing right now? More pushing.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So yeah, I just you know, I do the push ups.
It's really more about blood flow than it is about
anything else, huh. And I just.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Feel that I feel like I gotta do them with you.
I don't know how you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Here's what matters. No, No, do them on your regular hands.
It's fine. Yeah, you want to set your shoulders down
and together, so you want to feel that your arms
are kind of like that, and then holding yourself like
as a plank. Yeah, you want your arms to come
in about a twenty five thirty degree angle next to
your body like this, not too wide out, like bring
your elbows in a little bit. More practice doing them
(09:42):
like this, and you'll see that over time you're using
more of your chest than your lats.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You're kicking my ass.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
No, that's good. You did enough. Don't do too many,
and then we're not with the air squads. You have
better mobility right because of your age. So I just
teach people you're trying to keep yourself as upright as
you can as you can, and it's sitting in a
chair and letting your knees travel out from yesterday. My
(10:09):
body's killing me.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So what did you do yesterday?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
A lot of weight training and.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
You're balancing weight training with calistatics.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, and then I spar and I fight train, so
you know I have to put on special head gear
because I'm too pretty.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
You're sparring? Well kind of is this like? Is it
like jiu.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Jitsu or no? It's self defense?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Okay, talk to you about that.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Here's the difference. All fight systems, and there are a
lot of great ones, have rules, techniques, expectations, standards. Self
defense is you don't think you can outrun me, which
you can, but and you have that in your hand,
(10:57):
so you take it and bash me in the head
with it. That's self defense. Self defense is any way
you gotta do it, you do it, especially for women,
is that you learn his size is almost irrelevant, and
you can take out any threat. One you can avoid,
(11:20):
you can get away, but then if you have to engage,
you can do somebody dirty easy.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
And I'm not saying to do it, but I'm saying,
God forbid. If you need to.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Did any of you come up to Chris on the
streets of New York be prepared.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, I'll tell you something that I'll word carefully, the
idea that for me, for somebody, the rules aren't the same,
and everybody will think that means you get away with things.
My experience has more often been the opposite. That I've
been in situations where people definitely ask for what happened
(11:59):
and I wound up having pay because you know, that's
how our society works. So self defense is what works
for me.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's great for my head, and thinking about it, I
happen to be pretty bad at it, even though I've
been doing it for fifteen twenty years. I'm slow. I
let people get too close because of what we do
for a living, right, and I kind of have to
be the victim in order to survive any following legal situation.
(12:28):
So it's very frustrating the coaches that I work with,
But I like it, and I think it's great for
women as an empowerment principle, right that it doesn't matter
about size, you can take care of yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, and just really quickly on this note, because I
think It's a really interesting topic, especially since you've been
in the public eye for so many years. Yeah, I'm
sure you've had some crazy stories where people are approaching
you on the streets. It's just the nature of the business.
So I'm curious, like, do you have any stories that.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, so I have so many stories. I mean, I'll
give you an interesting take on the difference between men
and women. When men see me in person, they almost
always change their disposition. Now, I know when you put
this out and the comments, guys will be like, I'd
love to meet you, I'd beat your ass. My experience
in person is men are very simple animals and they
(13:19):
see that, oh I didn't know he was this size,
and that kind of is it for them, not women?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You are a good guy, like I didn't. I had
no idea what to expect, and I was like, oh,
he definitely is in shape, which's awesome for the show.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I'm in shape, pear shape. If women have a problem
with you, they don't care what size you are, how
physically intimidating you are. They come right up and they say,
here's what I don't like about what you said, or
I want to know why you see it this way.
And it's a really interesting education on how we are
as human beings in terms of the genders. You know,
(13:53):
men are very simple animals. But I've had lots of
people tell me what they want to say, and I
signed up for that, and I'm usually nine times out
of ten really enthusiastic about the engagement, whether it's positive
or negative. It's just when I have my kids. When
I have my kids and you run your mouth, you're
(14:14):
gonna get what you ask for. And I don't know
why that is, because intuitively, I would think i'd probably
be on my best behavior when I'm with my kids,
but that's not what it brings out of me. I
don't know what it is. Maybe it's the mama bear thing.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, it's definitely the mama bear thing. And it's like,
when you're out in public, you don't want people coming
up and harassing not only you, but your kids because
it impacts them.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, And you know, that's one of the things you
have to know is that as you continue going here,
you're getting a nice following for yourself. You're signing up
for something which is a level of scrutiny commentary on you,
and not just the easy stuff that you have to
deal with as a woman anyway, which is objectification and
all that stuff. But you're signing up for judgment, so
(14:58):
you have to remember that is that you and I
don't have the same right. I don't think anybody has
a right to not be offended, but we really don't.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Your advice for that, because like you're right, like, this
is an industry that I'm so interested in being in,
and you know, I'm really just getting started with it.
So being able to speak to you is like a
dream come true because I'm like, you have the best
advice possible for this. What is your advice on dealing
with like hard situations when you're in the media, because
there's so many of us out there content creators that
(15:29):
are kind of newly in this space of judgment almost right,
So you.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Got two dynamics, right, You got knowledge and wisdom. I
saw this clip the other day that really put it perfectly.
Knowledge is that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is
knowing not to put a tomato and fruit salad. And
the way that relates to this conversation is I can
tell you how to be, but it's really about getting
(15:55):
to understand yourself and what you tell yourself, not everybody else.
You know, here's what you got going for you. In
the age that we're in right now with social media,
I mean, look at the fires. They were at a
point where they could have gotten even worse, but interest
in the story was already flagging. People move on. So
(16:15):
while it's huge for you what's happening to you, nothing
is ever as good or bad as it seems in
the moment. Remember that, and just keep telling yourself when
things are happening that you don't like. You signed up
for this. You could go do something else, and that's
your choice. And once you know that it was your choice,
(16:38):
you understand what you control, which is how you are,
and what you don't control, which is how they are,
and you accept it and you go. And you'll see
a lot of that in life, partnering, parenting, the ups
and downs, the travails of whatever it is, the vicissitudes
of life. You know, you have to just take it
(17:00):
as it comes and realize what you control and what
you don't. And the easiest thing for you will be
that you always control your own attitude and reaction towards
whatever comes you.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It from being in the public guy. When you first
started out. I mean, I know that when you were
thirteen your dad became governor, right, it was I think
when you were thirteen.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I was like twelve.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, so you were used to public scrutiny. But I'm curious, like,
were there any lessons that you had to learn kind
of when you got into the media space.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
One of the reasons I'd never be in politics myself
is your whole family. I'll do push ups, your whole
family signs up, so it's like you're making a decision
for all of you, you know, And I didn't realize
that until I lived it. And also that service is
(17:52):
a privilege. I mean, this is amazing what we get
to do, and politicians it's a different order of service
and what they get to do and what they mean
to us. So, you know, we've lost sight of that
because of how nasty everybody is now and how they're
(18:12):
all playing for advantage and just playing the division because
it's such an easy cultural commodity. But in my experience
growing up, my father felt so blessed. Yeah, first generation American,
you know, parents didn't speak English. Everybody looked at him.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I didn't realize that, Okay, you.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Know, he wasn't even considered a white guy. You know,
I'm white right. One generation ago, my father was a
swarthy ethnic. He was mercurial, Mario, constant mob questions, and
he was assumed to be hot tempered and passionate, which
(18:56):
was just code for type. Right, you're an Italian, You
people are different. Now, one generation letter later, you assimilate,
you get into the whiteness of America. Now you're just
another white guy, and you can really say whatever you
want about Italians Italian I do.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Oh wow, that's impressive. What was it like grown up
Italian in Queens, New York.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well, you know, it's a very unique experience being Italian.
You know, it's an extraordinary culture that is all encompassing.
It's not just language, food, custom I think that there's
something deeper. I think that there's a way. I think
that there's a persuasion. I don't think it's not just
(19:42):
get the fuck out of here and you know, make
it not a good you know, all those silly with
an Italian they would call capone Italian. You know, this
kind of low rent, low class, but there's a manner
of kind of passionate pursuit, protection of family, understanding, and
(20:03):
embracing the romanticism of life.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
You know, it's not that we just love to eat.
You're in all of the abundance of flavors, of combinations,
of time, of effort, of that alchemy of you know,
heart and ingredients. Right, that goes in to making a
meal and what it is to sit and eat. And
(20:31):
how many times does a kid you get corrected? Slow down? Yeah,
enjoy what you're eating, take a sip, try some of this,
and it's a way of appreciating life. It's an ethos. Yeah,
and there is something to being Italian. I'm very, very
proud of it. And you know, my father it meant
(20:54):
so much to him. You would used to say he
was profoundly Italian, and not just because his parents were
Italian and you know, they really didn't speak the language.
Certainly in today's politics, my my grandparents would have been
seen as unwanted. They weren't illegal, but it was way
(21:18):
easier to get into the country. I mean, it was
very hard to get into the country. I'm just saying
you didn't have to run across a fence or some
shit like that, is what I'm saying. And they came there.
The name changed they were debased. It was put in
the ghetto. They were offered very little help, not like today,
(21:38):
they were ostracized.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
I grew up in an Italian American family as well
in New Jersey. My grandparents were in Brooklyn for many
years and parts of Queens as well, So it's amazing
to think that they had such a different experience, you know, when.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
You're Italian on both sides. Look how far our people
have come. Look how fine your features are. Look how
sophisticated you are. Look at me, I still get I mean,
you're perfect. Look at me, I'm still like a mister
potato head. I still have like big roundish features, you know,
much more derivative of the homeland. You see how progress
can happen.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
The Italian American people out there are going to love
what you just said about being Italian like.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
That, but it really is different now. I'm not saying
that the Irish don't feel like that. The Irish have
their own way, the Polish have their own way, the
Jews have their own way. You know. The reason I
have been such a staunch defender of Israel's right to
defend itself is because of my born experience and lived
(22:38):
experience as miss Spooka as they say in Yiddish, which
is extended family of Jews. I have Jews in my family,
my people in my life, the family I choose are Jews,
and I know how they are preyed upon, and so
it's personal for me. I have to be fair, I
(22:59):
have to look at it. Obviously, there are many different
ways to look at that conflict, but there is something
about being an ethnic that is lost in today's whiteness.
We're all just white. Look, I think one of the
lessons we're living right now as a community is that
I thought that Jews had assimilated into whiteness the same
way that I have as an Italian or as Irish,
or as Polish or as German, and they haven't. To
(23:22):
me now just makes them more special, more of a
protected class of people, you know what.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Like the way you described the Italian culture, I feel
like relates in a lot of ways to what it
means to be Jewish right there.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Oh yeah, we oriented with one huge difference. What a
legacy of persecution. Look, Italians have had their own hard time,
certainly in this country. But you know, it's like saying
that calling me Fredo is the same as the N word,
which once I was trying to make people understand why
Italian slurs are so hurtful. But it's not like the
(23:53):
N word, and I actually analogized to it early on
I help people understand, and I realize, no, there is
no link to the word and a period of oppression
that was completely inhuman And for the Jews it's the
same thing. So the Jews have a resilience that is
born of an awesome but ugly motivator, which is existential threat.
(24:18):
And I don't think that people get that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I did an interview with Dana Prino and she told
me like one of the things her dad always did
was the dog lady had to Yes, she had to
read the headlines of you know, the newspaper kind of
every day and then have be able to have a
discussion about one of the articles with her dad. And
I'm curious, like, growing up, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
No, my father was way more insular because everybody knew
what he was doing, you know, and those were big
items on the table. His talks were more about why
that was the only question he cared about, uh huh,
And that's the only care question I care about. In journalism.
Everybody else can tell you who, what, where and when.
It's all about why, about why things are happening. And
(25:01):
for my father, it was always more personal about what
you were doing with your life, with your time with
your family, with your kids, with your partner, and why
why were you doing it? And any position you had,
it was what's motivating that position. So right now everybody's
in a what mode right, which is politically, what party,
(25:22):
what's your pet peeve, what's your point of division? And
my father would have said, stop and think about it.
That's why I'm not just against the party system. I
believe that the hope for our democracy is in people
being independent, critical thinkers. And that was actually the best
sign of this last election. I found Biden and Trump
both to be woefully lacking as representatives of what America
(25:43):
can generate in leaders, but more people voted as independent
than we've ever seen before. It's amazing, and I really
think that that's the promise. My pop wouldn't have liked
it because he was a Democrat, but his party doesn't
exist anymore, and the Republicans that I married into their
party doesn't exist anymore, So you know, I think he'd
(26:04):
be all right with it? Over time, democratization of media
good is more, always better, not necessarily. What do we
have now? An accountability gap? Okay, people say legacy media,
mainstream media, what do they really mean. Don't watch them,
watch me. They don't tell you the truth. I've been
in it a long time. I have a podcast. It's
(26:24):
been doing well. I'm surprised. It's great. However, I have
learned something I screw up on the podcast, which is
really easy. Because digital media is so much about provocation, right, provocativeness.
Where's the accountability? You're gonna get owned on Twitter? There's
(26:45):
gonna be a community. Note. When you work at the
Wall Street Journal, you fuck up, they sue you. Their standards.
There's accountability. You're gonna lose. You're gonna lose your job.
We don't have that in independent media yet, and it matters.
For instance, I'll give you just a simple for instance.
(27:09):
You will not hear someone on New Nation, certainly not
on my watch, say there was no water in the
pumps in Pacific Palisades. Why because that's not true? That's why? Well,
what was true? They had pressure issues? What's the difference?
(27:29):
One is about supply and miss or malfeasance by management.
The other is a circumstantial reality of what they were
up against, meaning they were fighting on hilltops, a number
of fires and intensity of fires that their infrastructure was
(27:50):
not set up for, and what they say, no infrastructure
could have been set up for. Now that's the truth.
So why do you hear so many.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Click bit headlines?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Almost right, no water in the pumps newsome bad. I
can't say that, why it's not true? And I'm going
to have like ten people call me from in house.
You shouldn't have said it in real time, in my ear,
And that's why on my show very often I stop
(28:26):
whatever I'm saying and I'll say, look, here's why I'm
saying it. This is what he said to me, this
is what I was told. You don't have that an
independent media. Now, look, I don't want a bunch of
them all together. Verry wise, great outfit, free press. I
know people don't like her position on Israel, but again
I think she's articulated it well to explain the perspective.
(28:46):
It's very personal to her and it should be. Schellenberger
Taibi and there are a bunch of other independent journalists
who come from the world of journalism and know the
skills and know the trade. But guys with like a
hat like this sitting in front of a desk with
a microphone and cans on, who are telling you it's
(29:07):
all a conspiracy and COVID was a joke. They're getting
clickbait because they're playing on people's fears and prejudice and
they're getting a following, but they're full of shit.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I feel like there's so many issues. There's over communication,
there's people having shortened attention spans where they're not willing
to really do the research. They read a title and
they take it for you know, facts.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
And what they and what they do is look. The
easiest thing to do in the business, yeah, is to say, hey,
I heard how any example, I heard how your husband
was talking to you. I heard how you were talking
to your husband and taking it out of context. And
you'll be like, no, you don't know, that's not what
we meant. But the audience will never get the benefit
of that, and it's over and that that version of
(29:51):
you is now out there because of me, and you
can't fix it. You know that expression on ringing the bell?
So look again. Democratization of media good Okay, more ideas,
more better. The idea of censorship is anathema. A democracy,
you have to tolerate the shit. I have to tolerate
(30:12):
people having way more reach than I've ever had, no
matter what show I was on, when I know they
don't deserve it and don't warrant it with what they're saying.
That's democracy and the best ideas will win. You cannot censor,
and we're making that mistake more and more. I even
think it's happening on Twitter now under the new management.
I think that they are curating what they want. For instance,
(30:36):
Elon with this water thing, it was all over Twitter,
no water in the hydrants. He then goes to talk
to the firefighters, shoots a video of himself and they
tell him it's wrong. He doesn't blast that out and
say here's the truth. Why agendas? You want to do
another lapping?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Where do you think media is now going? And where
do you think people that want to be in the
space and want to be like me are like aspiring journalists,
where should we be positioning ourselves?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Well, look' that's tough, right, I mean, that's the burden
of choice. You have so many different platforms now and
I get that TikTok has been a more monetizable platform
for a lot of people. I don't understand their algorithms
and why their numbers seem to be so much bigger
than every other platform. My daughter became TikTok famous during COVID.
She did some clip that was out there that all
(31:31):
of you were doing, and her version of it got
like millions and millions of reviews. Whatever. I don't know
why their algorithms are what they are. But the more
important question to me is I don't know that the
proof is there that TikTok is this agent of China.
I have a problem with foreign interference in our democracy.
I don't know that TikTok is evidence of it. So
I think social media is evidence of it. But I
(31:53):
don't know that TikTok deserves scrutiny more than anybody else.
And I expect Congress to push back the ban, largely
because the right had a lot of energy on it.
Now Trump is against it, and I think that they're
about fealty more than loyalty to any principle. So I
think that TikTok's going to at least survive through what
the Supreme Court reckons, if not longer. But I think
(32:15):
that in terms of making your personal choices, I think
you've got to go in as many any directions early
on as you can, and then figure out what's working
for you and do more of it. You know, very
often young people are told pursue your passion. I don't
believe in that. I believe pursue what will get you
paid and be passionate about it, That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
But I do believe.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Double back there, right, But I'm saying, like, let's say
you love to do this and it ain't working, and
somebody offers you a job doing something else that pays
the bills and supports the family and gives you a
chance for advancement that you want, What are you gonna do?
Keep doing this? That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I feel always been like, figure out what you're passionate about,
and you know, if it's something that you're passionate about
and there's a way that you think you can monetize
it or figure out how to build a business around it,
that's amazing because I really do believe in the ethos
of do what you love.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
But yeah, but you gotta get paid.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You gotta get paid to do it, and I am
a total realist. And when I first started the show,
I have a family that comes from like completely traditional
finance family. My brothers went DL. My parents are total
like they push academics. So I was working in, you know, marketing.
I had advertising agency jobs. And when I started doing this,
my parents thought I was bat shit. They were like,
this girl's out of her mind with her a little
(33:34):
tripod going on runs of people. And then it started
working and my mom's like, did I quit my job
to work with you and help you prep for your interviews.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I wouldn't do that. What I'd ask your mom to
do is to figure out how to pick up advertising
and financing so you can expand the brand, you know,
And if she had stuff like that, that could be
really helpful. But I do. Look, I think that there's
got to be a synthesis of passion and practicality, and
I think your generation struggles with that because you got
a generation of parents like me who want to give
(34:05):
you everything we didn't have, and a lot of it
isn't material, it's emotional and psychological. And that's why so
many of you you're a little older now, but so
many of you moved back getting after college, which would
have been unfathomable for me. When I left my house
at seventeen, the idea that I would ever live with
my parents again would have been only if I was
(34:27):
like hit by a car or something. Absolutely, and now
it's very different. I also see it differently. I would
love for my kids to move back in, but I
don't know that that's best for them, right, No.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It's so true, And I'm curious, like, based on that.
You know, you've been walking the streets of New York
for a long time, these mean streets.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Out in these streets.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
If you could go back and tell your younger self something,
your twenty something year old self who just graduated university
is now working in the real world, Like, what would
your advice be to your younger self?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Okay, so what you're supposed to say is if I
changed anything, I wouldn't be where I am right, and
everything happens for a reason, right, here's my answer, I
would change everything. And oh, but then you wouldn't have
your kids. Maybe their spirits would be better off. I
don't know. What I'm saying is if I had a
chance to go back, I've made so many mistakes. I've
(35:19):
There have been so many times where I've taken risks
that didn't make sense and that I didn't take risks
that I should have. And sure, if there's an education
and all that, you can rationalize it any what you want.
But you have to take risk. You have to and
you cannot have a fear of failure. You can have
(35:42):
a very real fear of your inability to overcome. Yeah,
you are gonna fail, You're gonna fall, You're going to lose.
These things are gonna happen a lot, and you are
gonna have to use them. And I wish I had
known that sooner. Now as a parent, I'll give you
(36:03):
guys advice heading into the baby game. You fight any
way you can to keep that kid from social media
as long as you can. This band in Australia no
one under sixteen. I think it's genius. Yeah, our parents,
my parents were afraid of the television, the boob tube,
eat your brain. Nothing compared to this. Social media makes
(36:27):
my kids think things, value things, not value things that
are It's so hard to offset and it is getting
the better of us. It is not a tool for
us the way it should be. We are being used.
We're being used by people with more sophistication who understand
(36:50):
our proclivities and our weaknesses and they're using them against us.
And I see it and I don't know what to
do about it, but I know it's real.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, No, social media is a scary place, especially for
young kids. So it's a great point.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Look, I know it's a great it's an economic zone,
helps people connect, but you got to.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Look at the data exactly, have to look at the
data and like, at a certain point over communication isn't
necessarily a good time.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Why are people spending more time alone than they used
to because they don't have to go out and be
with people anymore. They can just see them on there.
And I was just talking to somebody about this last night. Yeah,
I mean, we got to figure out a way to
let people know how much of the content's fake. Not
just AI, but that she doesn't really look like that,
(37:39):
he doesn't really look like that. That's not his face,
you know what I mean, Those aren't his abs. You know,
there's a lot out there that's for gazy, and people
are being sold things, this plan, this supplement, this thing,
so more is not always better, and I think we're
working our way through that with social you got to
(38:00):
balance that with not censoring ideas certainly of a political nature.
But it's tough and we're not on the right side
of it right now. No.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, it's like this new world that we're not going
to know the ramifications of it till or, you know,
fifteen years from where we are right now, because we're
really just in the beginning of like doom scrolling and
people being so connected to their felling brain rot. We
all like a little bit of dooms growing. Are there
any videos that you'll like enjoy watching if you're ever
on social media or not? Really?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yes, So here are my bad habits, just some of them.
I honestly believe. I mean this. Yeah, I could shoe
a horse. I'm telling you, I could shoe a horse.
I can fix an abscess and a cow's hoof. I
(38:51):
know how to use the tools.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Wait, I love those videos. I know exactly where.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
The farrier videos farriers. I don't know that I could
get that things off between my legs. I don't know
that I'd be able to do that, and I don't
know that i'd have the strength and that those guys
have in their grip to do as much as they
do as many. But I'm telling you, I've learned how
to do it. I know how to do it. I
(39:15):
know how to break the nails, I know which pincher
that is, and I know how to get the shoe off.
I know how to scrape it. I know how to
clip it. I know how to carve out the horn.
I know that it's called horn, and I know how
to burn that shoe. I know how to put it
back on, bang it flat. I did bodywork on cars.
I can figure it out. So I watch those This
(39:38):
lawn mowing guy, I'm you know, I can't see it enough.
I love watching him cut people's lawns. And I love
that there are all these jobs, the trades that people
don't want to do because they think they're beneath them.
But now we're making people millionaires watching them do their
jobs online. Plumbers, welders, carpenters, framers. I love this renewed
(40:06):
respect for the trades. I think that's actually a big
problem for our economy is we've lost the artists in class.
And I love seeing these guys out there who are
carrying the flame and letting people know, man, you are
so much better than someone who just works with their mouth.
You know that you can do shit with your hands.
I mean, as a man, it's like such a forgotten standard.
(40:28):
You know, like you're not surprised if some guy your
age can't change a tire or doesn't know how to
open his hood.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
But if I asked my dad to do any of
that stuff for me, I'd be.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Like, I know he's got it, and we've kind of
lost that now. Look I was raised with it very specifically.
My brother's a master mechanic. He taught me a lot
of things. He taught me to figure it out. If
you tell me what to do, I can do it.
Simple things like maintenance fixing. I can do it. These
bolts are loose, this bracket has to come off. I
(41:00):
got to replace this part. I can do those things.
Andrew can listen to an engine and tell you what's
going on with the vehicle. Andrew can ride in your
car and tell you what's wrong with the suspension. And
that is the difference between a diagnostic mechanic, a master,
(41:24):
and a wrencher, which is what I am. And He's
been like that all his life with everything. Andrew is
a fixer. That's why he was so effective in government.
Andrew's not the best politician in the world. He's not
a smooth he's not a silk tongue. You know, he's not.
Everybody loves him because he's figuring out a way to
(41:46):
make everybody think that he's their best friend. That's not
who my brother is. If my brother likes you, you
know it, and you can count on him. If he
doesn't like you, you know it, and you can count on
that too. But in government, he fixes and I know it.
I've seen it, and people can look. Everybody has their opinions. Again,
he signed up for that. He signed up for the scrutiny,
(42:10):
he signed up for the attacks, he signed up for
the takedown, fair unfair, like it or not, that's how
that game is played, especially in his party. But he's
a fixer, and he taught me how to fix. I'm
not as good as he, but and I don't. I
sign up for a lot of shit. But I would
never sign up for what he does. I would never
sign up for politics. I mean, I'm exposed to it
(42:31):
enough as it is. I don't know how anybody goes
into elected office right now. Yeah, I mean, it's basically
like it's you know, rubbing peanut butter all over yourself
and then walking into a pack of pitbulls.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
It's it, really, I mean, it's a suicide trap. It's crazy.
But I always have respected how much love and respect
and support you've given your brother. I think it's amazing,
and I think it's how family support, so should support
one another.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
You know, people say to me what you just did
pretty often. I don't know any other way to be.
I think it's really important in life to learn the
lesson right you're gonna fail. The idea of learn, of
win or learn. I like that not easy to do,
but like, what would I do differently? Yeah, I mean
(43:14):
I thought about that a lot. I had a lot
of time to think about it after I got shit canned.
And what was I gonna do? I told people on TV.
Obviously I can't cover my brother. Obviously I support him. Yeah,
my boss is new. I never went after anybody. I
didn't do anything illegal. I didn't do anything wrong ethically
(43:35):
to anybody. I didn't try to help anyone have their
reputation hurt. What was I supposed to do? Not help him,
not talk to his team, not talk to him, not
give him ideas not do what I knew is tradecraft
about what was being done to him in the media.
I just I don't understand how I would have done
it differently. And the only part of it that bothers
(43:56):
me because I live with my own choices, and I've
paid a price, no question about it. I'm paying it
right up until this very moment. But I really for
all the people who say, you should have known that,
you don't get involved with a political situation when you're
a journalist. What would you do if it was your brother? Yeah, Now,
the only answer that is a good one other than
(44:18):
my own is quit. I offered to quit multiple times
and was told it wasn't necessary, and then in fact
it was crazy. Now how much of that was because
I was the number one guy at CNN, I don't know.
But that's the only answer that people come back to
me with. I would have quit and just gone and
done that with him. Okay, I offered that, they told
(44:39):
me it wasn't necessary. Now, what would you do if
you can't change it and it's not helping you in
the present? Fuck it? Just roll on, roll on. There's
plenty more coming. If you want. We can do some
five five fives. You ever do those? Like five strides?
Five strides real easy? So I don't pull my hamspring
five strides middle, five strides seventy percent. You know what
(45:02):
I'm saying. I don't run all out, especially in this weather,
because every I just get my break all the time.
It's like it's like I'm made of glass. If you
wanna try, when you wanna situate yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
All right, we're running, y'all.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
So they very easy, non dynamic, right, So it's just
five strides. You just a one two three four five.
You pick it up one two three four five and
then about seven two three four five, then settle it
down and then you walk.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
What do you do? Just turn off?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Fifteen? Is it? You know?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I do a lot of things. I mean, you know,
one of the things that I probably have going for
me is that I am not really interested in myself
the way most of us in this business are. And
I married somebody who has no interest in what I
do as a career in terms of defining hers. She
runs her own business. She's a boss, and she's an entrepreneur,
(46:07):
and she's deep and soulful and about all these things
that I'm not So my escape is one I'm set
up to not want to pay attention to myself self loath,
and two I kind of fade into the wheat my kids,
their lives, her which she's about, my wife, my friends,
(46:30):
those pursuits. So I'll be writing something for tonight, but
I'll be just as interested about where the tuna bite
is and how I'm gonna get there and when I'm
gonna get there. And that's what I do is that
I don't make it all about how many followers I
got this week or what the ratings on the show
(46:50):
are wherever it is. I just you got to be
about something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Absolutely. What I've loved about just kind of dabbling in
storytelling and journalism and you know this way is that
it doesn't have to be about yourself, which I think
is the best part about the job, but also the
worst part is then sometimes you get put on a stake.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Well, it's a challenge for you. Is digital media is
a little different. Individual outlet is a little different because
you are the brand, right this is the brand for
me News Nation. People are watching for you as much
as they're going to watch for the guest. I want
to get set up. We'll do another five five five,
so you haven't do it. Let's do it all right,
So five easy, five medium, and then at just about
(47:34):
seventy you know I'm ready yep one two three four
five one thefts two three four five knees and drive
one two three four good good.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Chris would crush me in the sprint.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
No, I'd probably pull a muscle in about nine strides.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, we are just kind of talking about one of
the things that I have to get better at is
talking about myself.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
More so it's different for you than it is for me.
I have specific things in my life that everybody knows about, Okay,
so I discuss life through the lens of someone who's
lived ups and downs right as everybody does. I'm just
ahead of you because I'm older and I've had more
shit happen to me. You have a different bar, which
is you have to connect with people where they are
(48:27):
in the moment, with their ambitions, and the way for
you to do that is to find common ground. So
you want to avoid what comes easiest to people, which
is talking about what makes you special, because a lot
of other people may not have that. So you have
to figure out what that common ambition is. Whether it's like,
(48:48):
let's say something simple, I want to run a half marathon, yeah,
and so do you, And I'm going to show you
how I got to do it so you can do
it too. That's a sweet spot and you have to
find that with all of these things. How let's say
what happened at the fires? It's got to be something
that is relatable to a common question, a common concern,
(49:11):
that kind of vibe, and that's what you have to do,
and life will present them to you, you know, as
a as a young couple, but you're also gonna have
to remember what to keep.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Your own exactly. I have a hard time talking about myself,
to be totally honest, because I love so much to
tell other people's stories and that's kind of the craft
that I want to hoe. Sometimes I'm like, what if
people want to know about me? And that's where I
get it wrong, because I know a lot of my
audiences are like, tell us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
They're gonna want to know about you. They're gonna want
to know about this. He's good looking, so you're gonna
have to squeeze him in a little bit. I agree,
and look and just go with it, and just remember
that there's also a big part of it that's just you,
that's just your friends, that only you guys have to know.
That's your life. It's not for anybody else. Be very
guarded about that. The intimacy matters it, the privacy matter.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Guys. We've done two laps around the reservoir. You're in
Central Park, sout thirty degrees. I'm cult, but I gotta
ask you.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
It's because you're skinny, if you were build for winter
like me two hundred and thirty pounds of bad intentions,
or you're walking around forever, I'm like a human igloo.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, I get to do more like that, I really know.
But what is a quote or motto that you live
by that.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I live by? Can't give it to you because I'm
not consistent enough. But I will tell you I have
such a romantic attachment to what Teddy Roosevelt articulated as
the Man in the Arena. Oh, I love it, and
I guess it was Kipling who put it together in
his famous poem. If I really believe that life is
(50:45):
about endurance and resilience and perseverance, I mean it's all
the comeback, all the time. Everything in life is lapses
when you're not who you needed to be, when you're
not how you needed to be, and what you do
with it, And to realize it is not the critical accounts,
it is the person who is in there making the effort,
(51:07):
and that life doesn't always reward the right thing, it
often punishes it. The grind is the only glory there
is the effort, the ability to know I tried, I
did what I could. I helped this situation. I help myself,
I help my family, I help what matters and whatever
happens is out of my control. Being that person who's
(51:29):
fighting that fight means everything to me. So I came
back after getting fired. I wasn't going to, and I
got convinced by people I care about that I had
something I needed to give
Host
Kate Mackz
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