Side Hustlers: Challenging Conversations with Danae and Tanisha

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Side Hustlers podcast. I'm your host from
my Heart Radio Carla Marie. I host the Carla Marie
and Anthony Show weekday mornings on one of six point
one Kiss FM on i Heart Radio. So this podcast
is my very own side hustle. Each week I talked
to someone who is following a passion outside of their
day job or someone who has turned that side hustle

(00:21):
into their full time job. But this week is different,
just like last week's episode is different. I've brought back
previous guests of Side Hustlers to have these uncomfortable and
challenging conversations. And as black female business owners, this week's
guests are no strangers to racism and struggle just because
of their skin color. And we're gonna get into all

(00:42):
of that about owning a business as a black female
and what it's like working in corporate world as a
black female. And now you'll probably remember Tanisha from two
thousand eighteen. She was on Side Hustlers with her now
polished company Law Beauty. And then Denay was on just
a few months ago with her business part nor Annie
with their company Barco Bite. And Denay also has a

(01:04):
new adventure that she's embarking on. So we'll get into
that now. While both last week's episode and this week's
episode are extremely beneficial conversations that we need to be having,
they turned out completely different. I learned so much from
Tunisia and Denay, and I know you will too for
a lot of people. You know, why are you wait?

(01:25):
Do you know what you want to do and this
is something you want to do and do it. I'm
a hustles side side hustle do it. I'm a hustle
side hust do it. I'm a hustle side us love.
Come on, ask about me, yo yo. It's the Side
Hustless podcast we call the Roof. Joining us today, we've

(01:46):
got Denay. Tony was on a recent episode of Side Hustlers.
She and her best friend Annie We're are co founders
of Barco Bite and Organic Dog treat company and also Tonay.
You recently launched on Purpose with Tonay, which is growing
as we speak, and you're you're planning all of that outside.
Want to get into that in a second, and then
we're going to throw it back with Tanisha. It's been

(02:08):
caught a year and a half since you've been on
the podcast, owner of Law Beauty Essentials and now Polished Company. So, Hollo, ladies,
how are you hi? Carlo are you I'm great and
I'm happy that you guys are here. But let's do
a temperature check Denay. Right now, with everything going on,
how are you feeling? And feel free to just let

(02:30):
it out. This isn't like a one word answer, and
I know that's very big question, but how are you
feeling right now? I don't know that I've actually put
that into words, like, I don't know that I can
articulate it. I have moments where I feel one way,
moments where I feel another way, moments where I'm literally
just trying to process everything. So if I could even
put it in one word, the best word to describe

(02:51):
it would be blah. That is a that is a
very fair word I think to describe, and I think
a lot of people can agree with that. Emotions are
all over the place, Tunisia, How do you feel I
actually feel inspired? Yeah? I think like I'm feeling like
really inspired, and you know, I kind of I feel
a little sad about everything that has happened, especially to

(03:13):
you know, like George Floyd and just thinking about their
family and how much they might be going through. But
then on the clip side, I also feel really happy
and fired by like the movement that's also happening at
the same time. Well, I think right now, a lot
of what you're seeing is, you know, we keep using
the word awakening. There are a lot of people, myself included,
who are realizing, okay, we I was doing things wrong

(03:35):
when I didn't think I was. I wasn't doing them
on purpose, but I was, so how do I move forward?
And those are like the positive moments, like you're saying,
if you feel inspired, Tanisia, like good things are coming.
But then I feel like it's also a lot of
the dirt is coming up and you're seeing the truth
behind a lot of people. For me, I'm like, WHOA what?
And I can't imagine what it's like for you guys

(03:56):
right now seeing that, especially owning businesses. But you did
mentioned inspired or not, Tunisia. I freaked out the other
day because I've been seen a lot of people share
support these black owned businesses. And one of the things
was trending on Twitter and I popped up and it
said it was beauty Companies and law Beauty was on
there and it was trending and I was like, I know,

(04:17):
I know her. So how has it been. Have you
seen any return from that? What has the support been? Like? Absolutely,
I'm not sure if I said this already when you
and I spoke, But like when I got the partnership
with Ipsey and I thought I was going to be
a millionaire, I had that same feeling again because the
orders just started rolling in and I'm like, oh my god,

(04:38):
I need help and I had to like start just
like making sure I had in to print all of
the stuff that I was printing out, and it really
just like came at a shock for me, and it
really boosted like my exposure, that's the word I'm looking for.
I really boosted my exposure. Like I feel like a
lot of people are now finding out about me and
my brand as they should and should have in the past.

(05:01):
I mean that's amazing. Yeah, it is. It's great. I'm
so happy about it. I'm feel guilty, but I know
that I feel happy about it. So, Tunisia, you said
you listened to the episode with Keita and Shanika. Shanika
says in the episode, she's like, I don't care give
me the money, So don't feel guilty, right that, you know,
don't feel guilty. Yeah, it's like we deserve it, you know.
But at the same time, it's just like, you know,

(05:23):
I still feel guilty because there are people who are
really mourning, you know, unders and in that aspect obviously absolutely,
but the fact that people want to support you, that's
an amazing thing. Yes, exactly, Tonay. What about you and
Barco Bite, Have you guys seen anything? What has it
been like for you guys, because it's completely different. I
know that there are two of you who own this,

(05:43):
so what has that been like for you guys? Yeah,
it's been interesting because, like you mentioned, it is a
co owned business. I myself in black, my business partner
is not, so like technically we don't say this as
a black owned business. However, I am a black business owner,
so I've a lot of support. Uh that's personal, So
people that know me personally and know what I'm selling

(06:06):
and the businesses that I have. So I've seen personal support.
Um in terms of the business. Overall, we've gotten orders,
but I feel like there's always some type of connection
through these orders, so it's it's definitely interesting. However, on
the flip side with company that I've started on my own,
I've actually seen an amount of orders on merchandise like that.

(06:28):
It like blows my mind because people were saying, oh,
this is a black owned business. So when that started happening,
kind of like what Tunisia was saying is that you
kind of feel guilty because it's like, uh wait, and
then I just started and I wasn't even really ready.
Like it's kind of like it's holding me accountable, and
it's that extra boost that I think I needed to

(06:50):
be able to really put out my products and be
able to sell and do what I love well. When
we first sat down, it was like two or three
months ago when we talked about it was pre coronavirus.
That's all I remember things now, And you didn't have
the second company. You know, you still have your day job,
you still have Barco Bite, and now you have another company,
Denay Travels dot Com. For people to check it out,

(07:12):
but explain to everyone what this new baby is so
we can understand this baby was birth during quarantine. I've
always wanted to do it, and I've always know that
I have a greater purpose. So the name of my
business is on purpose. With Denay, and my whole goal
is to just empower, inspire and encourage people to to
live their life with purpose and attention. So I want

(07:34):
to do more motivational speaking. I want to have a webinar.
I would like to start a podcast. There's so many
things that I have, goals that I have that I
want to do. And then I also sell merchandise that
I like design and like to you know, just do
fun stuff. And so I'm seeing support through that and
then sort of just working through things as it comes.

(07:55):
Like nothing's finalized. I'm able to just do changes things.
So it's a great opportunity to learn and also just
live out my purpose. Well. I think Tunisia can talk
a lot to that because I feel like when you
started law Beauty, you were changing things around and you
were testing things out on your own. And you two
have to connect after this because I feel like you

(08:16):
were telling me a lot of that or am I
going crazy? It's been a while. I know. I believe
that we spoke about the cap Remember remember that situation.
I think that's what you're like really refer to like
trial and error and like, okay, this didn't work and
let's you know, like, so I get that beginning stage,
and this could be good, you know, like the beginning

(08:38):
stage formed me. I think I remember telling you that
I wasn't so known, so changing the cap no one
really noticed. So like booming so quickly like you didn't
has to be a little bit more challenging because now
if you make a mistake, you to people, so not
to like scare you or anything that came sorry, but

(09:03):
you know it's just like, um, so I get it.
And even like what you just said about just like
not being prepared. I wasn't prepared. I had so many
winter colors and then I was like, all right, I'm
going to figure out what color is gonna order. And
then coronavirus happened, and then my manufacturer was like, hey,
we're not going to be in the office, so there's
no product. And everyone is like dm ng me and
sending me emails saying, hey, a lot of the colors

(09:25):
are out of stock. When are you going to be
like in stock? And I'm like, oh my god, I'm
not capitalizing on this momentum right now. Everyone your nails
at home. I was one of them, Yeah exactly, and
I'm just like, oh crap. But so like it really
is a learning experience. So now I know, like always
stay on top of your inventory, stay with like you know,

(09:49):
the seasons. So even if like right now, I don't
have that many dark colors, like I just want to
make sure that, like I have all the light colors
because that's what the people are shopping right now, because
you never know when the next pandemic is going to hit,
you know. I mean, I so, Tunisia, your day job
is still a flight attendant, but that's obviously just kind
of been put on hold at the moment. So when
is the last time you flew February. What happened though,

(10:12):
was that I was actually on vacation in March, and
then after my vacation, there was like no work. So
when I told other flight desendans like how were you
know you should have been workinking in March, and I'm like, well,
I had vacation and then that the coronavirus happens and
then so obviously you had the issue with the colors
and the manufacturer. But have you been able to use

(10:33):
this time to really focus on your business without having
to work and do your day job? Absolutely? And it's
it's everyone was talking about the coronavirus and how crazy
they were going. I'm like, I actually needed this break,
This is well needed break. I wanted to stay home
and I don't want to miss out on anything. So
I'm happy. Yeah, I did no Pomo and I'm like,

(10:55):
I'm happy stay home. I'm like encouraging people like to
stay home, stay home at k but like my own
self of reasons because like I would hate to have
like had this time off and then everyone is out
having a good time and then I'm just like home
for sure today. And I were talking about that before
we started recording, and Tonay you were kind of saying
the same thing that this was a welcomed pause. Yeah,

(11:16):
I felt like it was definitely a blessing in disguise,
and like just being able to spend more time like
with my husband and just be here in multitask because
like you know, just to be honest, you can't do
a little laundry when you're in the office, So I
just like I love having that freedom and being able
to also like do my passion. So for me, it's

(11:39):
just it's been so rewarding. I get it not having
to run around to a million places. You it's just
a different It's a different stress. There's still a stress,
it's just a different one that we've never had before.
When I had Kita and Shanika on one of the things,
I asked them and they overwhelmingly said yes. I said,
have you had white people reaching out to you saying
what do I do? Help me? I'm sorry, like all

(12:01):
these different things. Has that been happening to you, guys,
and what are your real reactions to that? I'll start,
I haven't had anyone say what do I do? I've
had more of how can I help you? It's not problematic.
But at the same time, I get I see where
the intent comes from, and I think that comes from
a good place. But at the same time, I also

(12:24):
feel like I shouldn't have to tell you what to do,
Like that's up to you to take the initiative and
do your research and you know, have these conversations. I
can tell you how I feel and then from there,
I mean, it's up to you to take that step.
And it starts with you. I mean, and this sounds cliche,
but like unity starts with you. If you want this

(12:45):
everything to come together and us to be all kumbaya,
like it starts with you and your personal conversations and
your interactions in your workplace, um in your personal life.
Those are the people that you influence directly and influence
the most, and from there they can also influence others.
So it's a bit of trying to navigate the conversation

(13:06):
and trying to understand where they're truly coming from, and
also being honest about it, like telling them it does
start with you, you know, not being afraid to actually
speak that. I uh, ten days ago at this point,
reached out to a friend from college because I know
that she's always posting about social justice and just equality,
all of it. So I reached out to her and

(13:26):
she basically said the exact same to me. And that's
when I learned like, Okay, I need to do this
on my own, but Tanisha, I know I want. I'm
glad that Tony went first because she didn't listen to
last week's episode and all women said something very similar
and I'm so glad that. Yeah, I'm so glad you
actually you just said that, Tanisha. What about you? What
is your take and how do you feel? Yes, I
know the girls who were saying that they were tired

(13:49):
and then then like, do your own research and stuff.
And I completely agree with them, But then I also
understand that there's this great area that I've fallen victim
to too. There you just don't want to talk about it.
It's kind of just like it's like a weird topic.
It's like talking politics on the dub. You know, we
just don't want to talk about right, But I get it.

(14:11):
But at the same time, it's like, well, we have
to though, and I get it about it, but I
completely agree with you. It's the same thing. And I
mentioned I want I want you to keep talking about that,
but I mentioned to them I believe, But I kept
saying to myself, why didn't I ask any of them
in their episodes what it's like being a black female
business owner. And I was like, because I feel like

(14:32):
that would have been weird. But now it's because it's
definitely different for you and it's something people should understand.
So I'm glad we're having this conversation. But yeah, I mean,
tired is definitely something I am sure you are feeling.
I had some friends and like, I have one of
my friends and she's right, and she was like, oh,
you know, I just feel like I wasn't doing enough,
and I'm like, well, what didn't you do? You know, like,

(14:53):
I don't want it to become like a pity party
on the black people. I know that not all people
are racist, So if we kind of just went along
with our lives without mentioning anything, then I could see
how that happens. And I don't want her to like
beat herself up about it. But at the same time,
I just only told her, just be conscious of the

(15:16):
privilege that you do have, whether or not you abuse it.
You know, you may not abuse it, but you should
know that you do have it, and not to pretend
that you don't, because when you pretend that you don't,
it's like you're pretending to be on the same level
as me and we're not, you know, and you know
that you know what I mean. So it's kind of
like I just told her that, you know. And so
I do have a couple of people that were like

(15:38):
reposting me that had never reposted before. I'm not sure
if I heard it on the podcast with you or
if I heard it somewhere else. I don't know where.
They were saying something like well, would you have done
it before? Would you have posted it before. I don't
really view it as like being fake, but sometimes you
want to feel like it's hard for some people to
go out on a limb, and if you see your

(16:00):
friend doing it, then it's easier for you to do it.
And I think that a lot of the posting came
from that, you know, like people didn't want to post
about it or I didn't want to say about it.
But it's like, hey, well my friends is saying it,
and now you know, you feel a little bit more
secured so you won't be singled out. You know, not
everyone is so vocal about something. So if my white
friend didn't say, hey, support my friends black business, because

(16:21):
it would have been weird before it really took this
for it to not be weird, but that I would say, well,
I'm just a business. You know why you're saying black like?
You know, like then it would have gotten like offensive almost,
so you don't you know, she doesn't want to say
support my friends black business because that's like singling me out.
And then with this whole movement, it is like, hey,
look we're talking about black businesses. You know what it is?

(16:44):
I did I did wonder that because I do agree
that like, and we talked about in the episode Uberid
sent out to support these black businesses, black owned businesses.
There's no delivery fees, and I was like, but why
didn't you do that before for them? If and that
was a lot of what we talked abou on the episode.
I said, do you feel like you want to say
to all these people, my word, you're supporting me before?

(17:05):
And Tunisia, you kind of just described it perfectly that
you know, you welcome the support, but yeah, it would
have been weird before. And I'm glad that you said that,
because if I said that, I had been like, well,
why do you think it would have been weird before?
It would have you know, it's like, how so how
is it? How do you even have a conversation like that, Like, hey, so,
how is it being a black woman in America? Yeah? Okay,

(17:29):
you even you would like to know that, right, But
it's so weird. It's like one of those weird topics.
So now it's like we're addressing an elephant that's in
the room, and there is an elephant in the room,
and it's so hard, Like in any relationship, it could
be a friendship, any type of relationship, if there's an
elephant in the room, it is hard and people like to,
you know, sweep things under the rug and not mention

(17:51):
things and just go around it. But I get that.
I totally get it, and that's why I was telling
even like my friend, I'm like, you don't have to
feel bad about anything. She's like, I wish I would
have more, and I'm like done, what more? You know,
Like I didn't expect you to march on your own
one day and say, hey, you know what, someone was
basic to my friend and her life matter, just like
go down to block and say, tunisia business matters. Like

(18:11):
people would say, you know you're crazy and crazy now
you're right. So like so I get it. Like it
had to have taken something traumatic, unfortunately to happen. But
if it didn't happen, then this probably wouldn't have even
sparked up. But you need some type of spark to
start a whole flame, you know what I mean. Yeah,

(18:32):
it's one big therapy session with no therapist and we're
all trying to navigate this on our own. It's a
short show, but we're getting somewhere. Yes, I feel like
we are getting somewhere and feel so inspired about it. Tony.
So your best friend Annie, you guys own your business together.
Have you guys had some of those conversations that Tunisia
just mentioned she had with her friend, Um, we haven't
talked in depth about certain things. We sort of you know,

(18:55):
scratched the surface. And even just having the conversation about
being on this podcast was a little rocky, just because
how I mentioned before, technically we are, you know, a
co owned business, so you could say, I mean, I
don't even know what you would call it, but me
being a black female business owner and her being a female,

(19:15):
you know, minority business owner is challenging to like, say, hey,
I'm going to talk on this podcast when we're so
used to doing everything together, but she's not comfortable speaking
because she's not a black female. For me having to
try to explain that in the moment, the reason why
we're having this conversation is based on a bigger issue

(19:36):
and movement, So that's been challenging. It's just it's something
that I feel like I have to work through and
conversations that have to be had just so that we
can both understand where each of us is coming from
and understanding that my experience like in reality is is different.
I mean, people can compare, you know, and say, we'll

(19:57):
have just as much. I'm dealing with just as much
as you, but you're just not my friend. And I
that exact thing, I think is what a lot of
people are now realizing. One of the things I keep
seeing which drives me, not me personally. I see people saying,
but we had Oprah and Obama, and I'm like you
and I wish the world just saw the two of

(20:18):
your react because in my chair I see that on Twitter.
I'm like, you mean to tell me just because we
had one black man who, yeah, sure achieved maybe the
highest thing possible, a president, and one black female who's
worked her way up and has been on TV forever
and has kicked ass. Yes, of course I'm not talking

(20:41):
down to either things that they've done, but that's it.
Just because you know what, we're good. You guys are
fine done. So people say that what we have them,
so they're fine, But no, it's not the case. There
is a lot that you're going through. And I'm sure
Oprah and Obama could tell us their ship that they
went through and they have to get to where they did.
So when you hear things like that as a business owner,

(21:02):
What do you guys think you I didn't say that.
I was quoting some ass on Twitter for the record, right,
I don't know if anyone has said that to me.
Oh good, well you should be right, I said, what
are you saying? Does that even because I don't even
think that even makes sense? You know? Yeah, I think

(21:24):
I would need to if I heard that, dig a
little deeper and just understand. I think, my big I'm
really trying to understand where people are coming from and
why they're saying what they're saying, because maybe I don't
know where they're what they're trying to articulate. Maybe what
they're trying to articulate isn't that, And so I guess
I just try to have some sort of reason and

(21:44):
like understanding what it is. I'm still trying to understand
it also, so I can. I don't know that I
would really react, and I don't know the best way.
I always just kind of go off of statistics, right,
because they are other black own businesses that has boomed, Right,
But when we compare the numbers, how many successful black

(22:06):
people do we have versus how many successful white people
do we have and that's what I'm trying to talk about.
And I don't know if that even what I mean,
but I'm trying to say. It's like, yeah, we have
Barack Obama, we have Oprah, but then we have to
every person we you know what I mean, Like if
we were going down to chart, our chart ends and guys,

(22:26):
chart continues, you know what I mean. So, like, I
just I don't even understand why someone would even say yeah,
and even to your point, when you, you know, talk
about statistics and level of success, then you have to
even go even further and say, well what is success?
Like what does that look like? Because success for me
might not be success for someone else, and so there's

(22:49):
like a deeper level of understanding, you know, even that.
So I think the reasoning behind when the person was
saying that they were trying to prove through that state
meant that America wasn't racist at all, because look how
successful we've made Oprah we as a country. I supported
her and we had a black president. So you know what,

(23:10):
you guys don't deal with anything bad, you can't like,
That's what I think that person was trying to say,
which like they're trying to say like there's an equal opportunity,
and we're trying to say there was no equal opposite,
and you're right because there isn't and obviously now hopefully
we are working together to change that. One of the
things that Shanika mentioned last week about her company was

(23:30):
that until recently, I think last month, she said, she
never really put her face in front of the business
to her story. She said she never told her story
because she would think that people would be like, shut up, lady,
go make your popcorn, is what I think, she said.
And she started doing it recently before before what we're

(23:52):
going through now. And then she said she started seeing
people say, well, if you're going to post about um
different things or or take a stand and some stuff,
I'm not going to support your company, which she goes,
I don't want their business. So you guys, as black
female business owners, can you relate to that? What have
you done face of your business? That whole thing? Tell
me completely understand Like when you've said that, and I

(24:14):
didn't listen to the podcast before, but when you said that,
like it resonated with me because that's literally how I
felt like the last three years, I think we only
put a picture of ourselves up because we had another
interview that we're doing and they requested a photo and
when it requested about it, I'm like no, stopping, like
literally did just laughing, and I'm over here like I'm hard.

(24:39):
It's true because like I didn't want because also the
business is doing so well, and I felt and this
is true, you know, like we do all this work
in the business is going well, and I feel like
if I put my pictures and be like, oh, she's black,
like yeah, oh, I know it sounds crazy, but that's

(25:02):
just how I felt. And now that our photos are
there and it's cool and everything, but like it took
this movement for me to even be like, Okay, I
have a voice, I'm going to use it. I have
a face, like I need to show it. So I
need to be comfortable in who I am and live
my truth. And whether people support or not based on

(25:24):
the color of my skin is not my problem. They
don't deserve their dogs do not deserve that's your probabul
ending that you just said, and I'm like, I'm still scared.
I don't know what it is why I can't like
get out of it, like I want to feel that
way I want to say, you know, if it doesn't
you know, if you don't support me, and it's and

(25:44):
it's the truth. It's like, if you did not want
to support me because you found out that I was black,
then I shouldn't want your support anyway. But you still
need to make money exactly like however, but the fact
that we live in a world, in the country where
a business owner needs to decide if they want to

(26:05):
be who they are it hopes to be successful is
fun and it's real. I am hoping that everything that's
happening right now will change that. For you guys, it
breaks my heart that up until this moment, you felt
and even now you're Tenisia saying, and both of you saying,
it's still still scared. But fuck yeah, it's like I'm

(26:26):
going out on a leap of it. And like I
remember having these conversations with my with my family, and
I'm like, I spoke to this guy and he said
to me, He goes, you know, like, who's someone that
you would like to recognize you? And I said, and
she says, and I love her the show everything. Um,
so he goes, But if you don't put yourself on

(26:49):
your page, why is how is she going to know
who you are? She's just gonna look at this and say, Okay,
it's a nail post line, but she's not going to
know that you're you're black. And he's like, he's like,
you need to put He's like, you know, you're beautiful.
Put your face there. And I'm like, well even if
I think about it, and he's like, think about it,
and I'm like, yeah, I want to think about it.

(27:10):
He's like, you want to think about putting your And
I'm like do you not? Like yeah, I can't get
into this conversation with you like you think like you
don't get it. Yeah. People might listen to this and
be like, that's so crazy, what are you talking about? Yeah, no,
this has to be has to be. Yeah, well I
am happy to be in the situation to like get it,
like and I don't even think that, like I'm even

(27:33):
explaining it to you, Carlin in a way, like I
know that you know you're a compassionate person, and I
know that you have like you you want to understand.
It's like I almost can't even explain it to now,
and I respect that I and I get that and
I understand that I won't be able to literally feel
what you feel and what it's been like. But I

(27:55):
know enough to know that it's so unbelievably fucked up,
and I want to be a part of the change
and to tell the people that I can tell this
is happening. I think that moving forward, because you two
or were just so unbelievably honest, that I hope that
no one listened to this podcast first of all, whatever
not support someone because of their skin color. First of all,

(28:16):
I like to think to the people who listen to
this podcast are an assholes or raging racist first of all,
but I hope that they can then take your message
to people that they do come across who are and
be able to pass your message onto them and think
this person couldn't fully follow their dream or live up

(28:37):
to what they're capable of because they felt like they
couldn't be themselves, they couldn't show their face on their
product when every other person does. And you're right, I can't.
I can't. Everything you just said to me, I still
can't spit it back out. So when I go to
talk about that, I'll probably just take the audio clip
of the two of you, because it will resonate more

(28:57):
of people like you're saying, I can't I can't even
explain it because it's that absurd to me. But I
believe you, and can I tell you this, And I'm
not sure if you agree with me. But it's not
only the white people that I'm hiding from. Stop. Yeah,
I hate to say it, I mean, and I hope
that people are not like I can't believe that you
because like I always say this to my friends and

(29:19):
this is just a joke, and I don't know if
it's a racist joke, but I always just say be
careful because the white people are listening, Like I always
say that. So like even when we're like like doing
things and I know, black on black crime and stuff
like that, it's like I kind of don't even want
like the white people to know about any black on
black crime because like we are already looked down upon.
So in this situation, I'm like the black people are

(29:41):
also super harsh critics. And it's like in America period,
I feel like everything is owned by the majority, and
so if you don't make it with the majority, it's
very hard to make it with the minority. Like the
minority want to see you in with the majority, and

(30:01):
then they're like, okay, well, if she's you know, hanging
out with or if she's connected with the you know,
with the white folks, like I don't know anyone. Like
let's say I wanted to get into Sacks. I don't
know anyone that's in power over there or majority that
the people over at SAX are white. So if I
got in with them and then I'm in Sacks, it's
like all the black people will be like, oh girl, yes,

(30:23):
and then all of a sudden they will be supporting you.
But before if I would have hashtag support black Owner,
it's like kind of frowned upon. It's like, oh, support
black Own, It's like what It's literally a hashtag that
I just didn't even bother using because I was just
like about the hashtag. Forget about that hashtag. I don't
even want the black people to know because I don't

(30:43):
want I just feel like black people are so not
all you know, and I don't We can say no,
we should have said this in the beginning. We're not
saying all for anyone, and I'm not speaking for all
white people, and you aren't speaking for all black people,
let alone all black people business. We're just this is
your opinion in the life you've lived my opinion. I
do think that sometimes we can become very harsh critics

(31:05):
on ourselves. I feel like I'm even harsh on myself,
you know. And I can say the same thing for
myself too, though, But I can't argue exactly what you
just said because I'm not a black female who is
being a harsh critic to other black females or black
business owners. In a sense, you really can say that
for anyone. I mean, and women as a whole, what
do we do we cut down other women or not
we write? But you know what I'm saying when I say,

(31:29):
like we can be very harsh even as a community.
If a black person found out that I was black,
you know, they're like, all of a sudden comparing me
to major male pluge companies and they're saying all these things,
and you know, and I'm just like, I can do
so much if you guys just support I can do
so much more, you know. But we tend to like
just compare ourselves. And I'm not sure if it's just

(31:51):
like a black mentality that we have to go extra hard.
And you know, I've always been taught that in my household,
Like no matter what you do you have, you just
have to go even harder. You have to just go.
You know, it's not gonna nothing, It's gonna be handed
to you. And and I don't think that these things
were instilled in me in a negative way to make
me feel like I'm below, but I think it was
more in an encouraging way of saying, listen, this is

(32:13):
where we are, this is who you are, and you
just have to be the best of the best to
be noticed. You cannot be mediocre. Yeah, there's just no media.
Yeah today you are agreeing hardcore over there, and you're
like speaking you know so much truth, and I can
totally agree with. Like I was brought into this world

(32:34):
with my parents saying like just from the start, you
gotta work harder, you gotta do so much more, and
like you cannot give up, like you will not give up,
Like it's not even a part of you to give up,
Like it's never even been an option. And so understanding
that I have to work ten times harder, I've always
done it, so I don't even have to think about it.

(32:55):
It's just part of who I am because my parents
are still that and too myself than my siblings, you know,
at a young age. One of the things Shanika said
to me last week was that when she would listen
to the podcast, she would often hear most of my
guests were white females, and they would say things like, well,
I just took a leap of faith. Oh yeah. I
heard her say that, and she was like, I would

(33:16):
hear that and be like, I can't do that. I
can't do that because kids must be nice. Must be nice.
She goes, I can't do that because I have kids.
I can't do that because I can't trust that my
business work because of my skin color. When I say
that to you, just take a leap of faith, or
they you know, I've heard this great advice. Just take
a leap of faith. It'll all work out. What how

(33:37):
do you guys absorb that? And what do you think?
I go back to statistics. I'm like, I have to
look at the statistics. How many black women were able
to take a leap of faith? How many white women
were able to take a leap of faith? And I
know that that number is significantly lower. I agree, and
I feel like, so I am a spiritual person, and
I like, taking a leap of faith is something that

(33:58):
is I use a lot. But at the same time,
like faith without works is dead. So yeah, I take
a leap of faith, but I also put in the work,
you know, you know, to back that. So I just
feel like you can have the faith, but you've got
to you've gotta put in the work. And for me,
maybe people do just take that leap and they don't
do anything and everything is like amazing for them. But

(34:22):
kind of what I said before, at the core of me,
I'm always gonna work hard, So yeah, I'll take that leap,
but like there's there's work coming right behind it, and
then happably we have to work harder. So she can,
you know, take that leap of faith and it will
work out for her. But which she had taken that
leap of faith if you had to do double the work, right,

(34:42):
probably probably. So the two of you keep agreeing with
each other on a lot, being like yes, yes, and
it's like you're bouncing off each other a lot. Now, Titia,
you said, you know, in the past, you've never had
the conversation with any of your white friends because you've
just never needed to. It was an awkward conversation. Have
either of you had conversations with other black female business
owners about what it's like to be honest? And this

(35:05):
is going to sound so bad. I don't know any
other black female business owners in my circle. Like obviously
there's I know, you know, black female business owners, but
in my circle people that I could just text, like
right now, I don't I don't know them. Yeah, and
now I do. And I'm grateful for this conversation. I'm

(35:27):
grateful you know, expand my network because even when you
sent the email and I saw Tunisia's business and I
was like follow her and I'm like, yes, thank you,
like like I'm so happy because I just don't see
that in my in my small circle, I do. I
have a friend and our conversations are just like you

(35:48):
wouldn't believe that I actually said that, like the way
we talk about some people where like I'm like she
gets it, so like I can like really just like bent,
like I would like literally screenshots if someone like sends
it to me, or I would say, oh my god,
I was at work today and you won't believe what
I experienced And then like it's not like uncomfortable conversation

(36:08):
between us. It's because she because not at atten times
it had happened to her too, so she's just like,
oh my god, yeah, totally get it. Like she's just like, yeah,
I remember when I told you about that. I'm like,
oh yeah, I remember when you told me that that
happened to you. And we're always talking about it and
it's something that we can relate um too. So it's
like a conversation where maybe you call it you're sitting there,

(36:31):
you would just be like huh because like you were
just like yeah, you know, and it could be anything,
just like just like super random, and she would just
totally get it. So she gets the struggle. It's like
it would be a foreign language to you. It really would,
and I and I believe that, and I'm I'm grateful
that you can say to me that it would be

(36:53):
a foreign language to me. And I'm like, I I
understand what you're trying to say. I know, and you
don't even need to feel like you need to explain
that to me. But it Tonay, I think it's to
me when you just said you don't know any other
black female business owners, that to me is a problem
and of itself. Not not that you've done anything wrong
to create this problem, but that's a problem because what

(37:14):
I've done with this podcast is the goals to get
all these business owners on here share their story and
then I connect them. And I'm going through my mind
and I'm like, well, I don't even have that many
for you to connect. And that's something that I've been
going through and mulling over and trying to figure out
how to change that and what is that problem? And
why didn't I come across so many black female business
owners or black male business owners. And in my mind,

(37:35):
I kept thinking, well, I got into this vicious circle
of well I would have business owners connect me with
one another, and it was just white female and white female.
That's why I didn't have a lot of guys in
the podcast. And it's just we get into the circle
and we don't realize how much we would benefit by
mixing together. But also, at the same time, you need
to have people you can relate to, and Shanika mentioned this,

(37:57):
and I said this to her. Did you feel like
when you would listen to my podcast you didn't have
anyone you could relate to? And she said absolutely, And
she told me she's like, I kept thinking, you need
to put some pepper in this podcast and me that,
but like, I also get why you didn't tell me.
But I think that coming out of this, you will
be able to connect with more people and it will

(38:18):
change your business. And I'm saying that as someone I
hope that happens. I hope it does change, because I
think it is problematic that it's not easy for you
to just connect with other black female business owners through Instagram,
like every other white female business owner will say. Because
I was going to say that, I probably would have
I probably would not have contacted you, like even if
I came across your page and I would have said, no,

(38:40):
you know, I doubt should be interested in me. Do
you think that I know, you're not gonna speak for
all black women or black males, but do you think
that is a common thing that people think and say,
I'm not going to reach out to her. She wouldn't
have me on her podcast. Yeah, you know. Um, I
think that I've fallen victim of stereotypes, not placed stereotypes

(39:01):
on women, just through my experiences with other white women.
There was a point in time where I was in
the office at one of my old jobs, and I
was like literally the only black girl there, and I
felt it, you know, I just I just felt like
these condescending or you know, sneak, weird, borderline racist comments,

(39:21):
and so it had tainted the image of a white
woman to me, especially a white woman in power, you know,
like my boss, Like I felt like she was racist.
So I would have looked at your podcast, looked at
you and would have said, yeah, you know what, I'm
just gonna, you know, try to find someone that looks
more like me or something like that. And then when

(39:42):
I had this conversation with you, while I was a
very good conversation, and even if we're from like two
different worlds, you know, um, it was still but I think, like,
that's not your fault. I think that's my fault for
you know, just like pre judging or something like. I
think that that's just something that we just just en us.

(40:03):
You know. You you might have been scared to talk
to me, you know, or you know, vice versa. I
think it goes both ways. You were my first person
of color period, I believe, on the podcast, and then
you were episode thirty. So there you go. And I
think what you just said about how you would pre
judge as well. I mean, if you pre judge someone
and you can recognize the fact that you did it,

(40:24):
I think that's a learning experience, and that's a growing experience,
especially right now. It's good and bad that everyone is
gonna second think everything they're doing. And hopefully we don't
second think everything we're doing for the rest of our
lives in that aspect, but we're doing it now so
that we don't, so that we fix ourselves. And it's
a growing experience and a learning experience. And I am

(40:45):
I love that you were able to just tell me
that because that helps me. If other people feel that way,
I can then make sure that I am the one
reaching out to them and I am going to get them.
And I did have a friend earlier this week say
to me, you know, we've we've always tried to work
with different business owners and they come to us and
picking from that pool of people. There aren't really many

(41:07):
people of color so now here and you say this,
I'm wondering if this is something. I mean, Denay, what
do you think about that? Do you think, oh, she
wouldn't want to work with me because you guys didn't.
You don't that you were Annie. I'm not sure who
reached out. Yeah, Annie was the one who reached out. So,
just speaking for myself, i'd probably be in the same
boat as Tunisia, where I was like, no, it's okay,

(41:29):
I'll just keep scrolling. You know, can we all just
stop doing that now? But continue? Yeah, Like I would
just feel more comfortable speaking to someone who looks like
me just because I just assume. It's all assumptions, right,
It's not just assuming like she wouldn't want to talk
to me, like she said, like that's my fault, you know,

(41:50):
Like I could be missing out on an incredible opportunity
by making those assumptions. I would like to think that
there are other people who feel that way too. You
think about a dating site, like I've gone on dating
sites before, and I would look through the guy's pictures
and if I see he has like let's say it's
a white guy, and then he has like a picture

(42:13):
up and he's like, you know, hanging with a black guy,
I'm like, oh, okay, well he likes black people, you
know what I like? Before, I probably skipped over a
guy that just looks like I don't know what you
look like. You don't like black women, looks like I
don't know what the face of that looks like. I
would just like go through and I'm like, know, he
looks like he doesn't you know like I would. I

(42:34):
don't know. So it's like the same thing that I
did when I am talking about Okay, well, let's clear
the world like that I do like black women, for
the record, and unfortunately, if I give off that vibe,
that clearly my fault and that sucks. But you didn't
do that. I'm saying that all on me, that that
I don't even know what someone who does not like

(42:56):
black people look like. It's it's like I just made
it all up myself. Yes, but I love you for
saying that. I love you for being honest because it
is a two way street right now, because I can't
learn things if you don't say that to me, and
so that I can do my best to understand, because
like you keep saying, I'm not gonna understand, but I

(43:18):
can at least try and get there. And if you
never told me that that, it just makes such a
difference for me personally in this world of podcasting and
finding guests. And I've been mulling over that for the
last few days when my friends said that to me
about her business and people coming to her, and I'm like,
maybe they didn't want to come to me, same thing,
because that's how I've been getting people for this podcast.

(43:39):
I'm grateful that it's just been like podcast pops up
and people reach out to me. I mean, right there,
that's I guess white privilege right there. And I wouldn't
have realized that before this week. And thanks thankful I
have people like you guys to help me get there.
You know, you didn't come in here and be like, well,
because of your white privilege, you've had all these guests
on your podcast, but we've able to have this conversation

(44:01):
and I and I'm glad that we can show people
who are listening to have the conversation because it will
get you somewhere. You don't have to approach a conversation,
so tell me what it's like being black. You can
just have these conversations. And I love you guys for
this so much, So thank you because it helps me
a lot, and I hope that it helps you in
turn being able to also talk about it and understand

(44:25):
or not feel like even when you're having this conversation,
like sometimes I feel like I don't want to make
an excuse, like I'm so afraid to pull the black card.
But then sometimes it's like it is the black card,
but I don't want to say, like, oh, it's because
I'm black, And it's like maybe it may have not
been because you're black, but maybe it really was because
you're black. It's like a very thin line for us too,

(44:47):
as black people, because sometimes it's really not that, but
then sometimes it really is. So it's really hard to tell. Tunisia.
You were mentioning earlier about talking to your friend about
things that happen at work, and as a flight attendant, you,
like I said, you do see some of the crappiest people,
even though they're normally traveling for good things. But you
see people from all over, all over different parts of

(45:10):
the country. So what is it like for you as
a black female in that world? Basically customer service face
to face with people. Sometimes I meet really nice people,
and then sometimes I meet people who are not so nice,
And I think that I have experienced it, but like
I said, sometimes I'm not sure. I'm like, are you

(45:31):
just giving me a hard time? Because because I'm like,
you know, because I'm black, I don't know, you know,
like and so I try not to pull the card
so often. But you know, sometimes things that people say
bothers me and they maybe didn't even mean it, you know,
like sometimes people ask me like is that your real hair?
And I'm like, well, there's a white woman that's right

(45:51):
there with the same lanter. Would you have asked her?
That was like do you? But do you say that?
Because I want you to say that no, because I
or someone you don't want to pull the black or
touching you hair. I don't want to pull the black hard.
Maybe she really just wanted to know if that was
my real hair. But I'm just like, why are you

(46:12):
asking me that? You know, because like if I asked
you that, I don't think that how many people have
asked you if that's cereal? Here? Maybe when a top pink,
I'll get asked that question, but it takes my hair
being hot pink, you know, not blonde, So yeah, it
doesn't really happen. And the same thing today. I mean,
the only time people touch my hair again is if

(46:33):
a top pink, So again the extreme, even then, it's
like people don't do that and I'm assuming today that
has happened to you. Yeah, I mean I work in
corporate America, so there's a lot of situations and conversations
and things that happened where you can't even say anything.
That's the worst part is when you're in an environment
where you like literally cannot even say anything. So I've

(46:56):
had a situation where I was like literally in a
boardroom and my hair was straight, like straight down, and
a woman walks in and she's like, oh my gosh.
Before she even says what she's gonna say, she puts
she puts her hands in my hair, like rubs her
hands through my hair, and she's like, your hair is

(47:16):
so beautiful, Like what did you do? Is it yours?
She just keeps going. She asked like five questions back
to back, and I'm sitting here like I can't even
like check you because I also don't want to have that.
There's other people in the room and I don't want
to you know, this is also my job, So it's
kind of like, how do you even navigate those situations

(47:38):
where you're uncomfortable. I'm not an animal. I'm not your
pet to put your hands in my hair. If we
want to have a discussion. Okay, But just like Tnitia said,
are you going to ask her it's the same question,
or you're gonna ask me? And so it's just it's
hard to it's it's situational because I feel like if
I wasn't in that room, I would have called her out.

(48:00):
I'm not had a problem with it. At the same time,
it's like, this is my job. How do I navigate
like saying the right thing? Well, so let me ask
a dumb question to that. So if I change my
hair at work, like if it's different, if I've been
wearing it curly for like five days and I wear
a trade, people like, oh my god, I love your
hair when it's straight or something like that. Where is
that line, Like, if someone's complimenting your hair, is it

(48:20):
the touch? Is it? Because I have I have no
idea and I don't know if you can explain it
to me. But I'm genuinely trying to figure it out.
I feel like if I do, like if I were
to do my hair differently, and I'm aware that like
tomorrow I'm going to come in with straight hair, I'm
gonna expect someone to notice and give me a compliment.
Better yeah. Like I just feel like if you say, oh,

(48:40):
I love your hair looks so good, Okay, that's fine,
like you know, everything's good. If you put your hands
in my head, like are you going to walk up
to someone and then like rub their back and say,
oh my gosh, good morning, Like you're not going to
do that, so why would you do that to me?
So for me, I just feel like, as long as
you're not touching me, if you're giving a compliment and

(49:02):
it's like the touching thing is just yeah, But when
you start touching, that's what I get uncomfortable because I
just wouldn't want that's already right, I just don't touch me.
It's not too much to ask. I don't think. This
past week I've learned the word anti racist, and as
the both of you are telling me, you wouldn't say

(49:22):
to someone maybe at work or on an airplane, if
you're working, Tunisia, you wouldn't say, would you ask her that?
Or don't touch me? So if I see this happen,
if I am flying behind someone and I see a
woman say to you, Tunisia, is that your real hair?
Can I then peek my head around to this person
and be like would you ask me that is that like,

(49:46):
is does that qualify as anti racist? Or is that then?
Or is that just starting crap? Or would that put
you in a weird position? Like what can I do that?
Because I'm ready, I think I think it's how bold
you are. I mean, I would stick up for someone
if I just didn't like something, you know what I mean,
Because I've seen people pull out phones and record other things,

(50:09):
you know what I mean, and say things about that,
but when it's something that's like they don't really care about.
So I think it depends on you, like if you
cared enough to say like, hey, you know, like don't
you really shouldn't you know, like have some respect? You know,
sh'd that work? You know? I don't think that that
would be, you know, the worst thing in the world.
It just depends on if you feel bold enough to

(50:31):
say something like that. Yeah, and like today in your situation,
maybe not in the boardroom, but i'd like pop into
an office and be like, hey, um, don't run your
fingers through anyone's here. We're at it, Like, don't don't
do that. So I'm ready. I don't want it to
happen to someone, but like part of me is like,
if I'm there if it does, because I'm gonna lose

(50:52):
my mind probably, So thank you for that, because yeah,
I appreciate you guys. Yeah, I feel like it's situations.
I mean, like we're laughing and joke about it, but
there might be people who listen to this and they're like,
oh my gosh, I did that for someone and I
had no idea that that's like not okay, but now
they do. Yeah. I hope yeah, I hope so too.

(51:12):
I hope so too, you know. And it's like even
with when I wear braids, people always asked me like, oh,
did United allow you to read hearing braids? And I'm like, well,
who came up with what's professional versus what's not professional?
You know, like I came to work with my braids
in kind of questions. Yeah, but I'm asked all the time,
and you know what, what if you said no? If

(51:33):
you're like no, they didn't let me. I'm just here
breaking the rules. But it has happened. I know that
some sort of law or something had happened where you
can wear afro to work because there are professional standards
within companies and an afro was not deemed professional and braids.
I even had to ask, like a friend, I'm like,

(51:53):
did you ever wear braids to work? And she's like, yeah, were,
And I'm like, all right, cool, so I'm going to
do it too, but like it just and so like
that's one of those here things. And I think it
is an underlying, in my own opinion, racist thing because
black people wear braids and all of a sudden, it's
just not professional in the in the workforce, and it's

(52:14):
really true. Well, and a lot of those rules this
and this doesn't make it okay, but I think this
is why. These are rules that were made a very
long time ago, and they've just kind of been on
the list of rules for a company at the bottom
maybe and just kind of hanging out there for no
reason other than maybe they are trying to not trying

(52:36):
to be racist, but trying to put you out of
disadvantage or things that. I mean, right, there is systemic racism,
I mean, and it's because it's been around forever and
it's kind of been swept under the rug. You don't
really think about that rule of you can't have an affro,
you can't have braids, But now we do, and we
freaking fix it. Yeah, and it's really I would hope so. Yeah.

(52:56):
I feel like it also has a lot to do
with who are the decision maker? Is right? So, and
one of the questions and like conversations I've had it's like,
who's making the decisions? Who is in the room, who
has a seat at the table? Are there even any
people of color to begin with? Because if there were,
maybe someone would have spoke up and said, hey, you know,
this isn't right, you know. So it sort of boils

(53:18):
down to that, especially in companies um where where like
whether the boards making the decision, the executive leadership teams
making the decision, who's in those meetings, who has a
seat at the table, And that's where it's important to
have people of color. Diversity. Yeah, absolutely, the diversity and
inclusion is like is so key And I would hope

(53:39):
that if a person of color says, hey, why why
do we have this role, the white person at the
table says, uh, I actually have no idea. We should
get rid of it, and not like no, we have
to keep it. And I hope in this world it's
a lot of people not paying attention to that and
not even thinking it's a rule for my company, I
can show up to work doing whatever I want. So
we don't have rule is like that and if we did,

(54:02):
and I'm going to actually look into it, because I'm
very curious, but we don't, you know, we just have
if you're going on a business meeting, you have to
wear something for our sales team, not for me, because
if you're on air and radio, you're normally just a disaster.
But that's that's so different than the corporate world. And
I hope that people hear this and think, do my
does my company have that rule? And I need to

(54:23):
find out because everyone can access their dress code, which
is bizarre to think that something that is a part
of your culture would be a dress code. Right, it's
just but it's it's really the truth. And like I
remember having braids in and then going and then getting
a job into mew and I'm like, all right, I'm
gonna take these braids out. I've done it. Yeah, and yeah,

(54:44):
you just don't go which braids, like you kind of
just wait till you have your job and then you
can like and then you can like okay. That's like
that's how I felt about the whole thing with me
showing my picture. It's like, no, let me secure, this
's get these partnerships you know, going, and then I
can kill my face. It's like it's the same thing

(55:06):
going into an interview. It's like, oh man, I gotta
straight in my hair. I can't wear my hair and
the actual you know, there's certain things I just need
to secure whatever it is, and I'm trying to get
and then I can be like, you know, I saw
and it's crazy that we have to think this way,
but this is legitimately my reality and a lot of
people's reality. And I believe you. I'm not sitting here

(55:28):
going Nope, you're lying. I believe you. But I'm like,
what is happening? Like what is this world like? Why?
And And I think a lot of us will go, well, no,
that You'll talk to people who are older and they'll
say they've been through that, right, Like, in my mind,
I don't think that someone my age, like the two
of you, would experience that in today's world, but clearly

(55:50):
you have. And I have seen both of you with
the different hair than you have right now, Tunisia. I've
seen you with three today, I've seen you with straight hair,
and you're both beautiful all the ways and you actually
saw the interview Tanisha that you did with it hustle
school or school school, hustle sorry, and when you had
because I think I don't think when we chatted, do
we have video chat? I know you didn't have braids.

(56:12):
We had video chat? Okay? Well I saw your yeah,
and I was like, oh my god, her hair is
beautiful like that. I literally watched that video today and
I thought that. So the fact that you're saying that
you have to take them out or say it's a
part of who you are. And I'm not going to
sit here and tell you guys do it, because who
am I to tell you that? But I, oh my god,
I hope that you feel comfortable to be able to

(56:33):
do it. And I think so too. And Shannon, the
woman that interviewed me, when I came in, I like
almost apologized for my hair. I think in my mind,
I was like, oh my god, I can't take it
out because it was kind of like the last minute
thing and I had already just put these braids in
and they're not cheap, and so I didn't want to
take them out. And then as soon as I walked
through the door, She's like, oh my god, I luck

(56:54):
your hair. And I was like, oh thank you, oh
my god, because I almost took come back and was
like why and I was like, I don't know, because
we're going to be this reason to put braids in
because it's badass, and I was like okay, great. You know,
as soon as I got in, you know, I felt
more comfortable with the whole interview placess instead of feeling
like I would being judged, you know, or like looked
at like ink blond braids. Interesting, you know, I think

(57:19):
you think that people think like that. Definitely. I think
it's interesting as I'm listening to you talk, it's interesting
that speaking for myself that I felt like my entire
life I've always had to sort of be uncomfortable to
allow other people to be comfortable. Feel like the same
situation you just explain where you're like, oh, I need
to take this out. All I need to do this

(57:40):
because I want this other person to be comfortable is
like the story of my life and other aspects I'm
sure too, though, not just your hair, you know, and everything.
It's like, why do I have to be the person
that has to feel uncomfortable in order for you to
feel comfortable, and and you know, throughout this whole movement,
I have kind of really been thinking a lot about

(58:03):
that and and stepping into my truth and stepping into
like being unapologetic, like no, I am who I am,
and if you don't, you know, want to rock with me,
then that's cool. But I shouldn't have to have to
jeopardize who I am and who what I look like
for your comfort. You know what's crazy is that we
hear that often be yourself, Just be yourself. You know,

(58:23):
if they don't love you, then it's their fault. Same
thing when you hear gay people coming out, it's you know,
just be proud of who you are. But if you
don't have a society that it's actually going to back you.
I mean, and you see it with Pride Month now,
like Pride Month wasn't what it is a few years ago,
but people are. And I hate just making these comparisons

(58:45):
right now, but people support the gay community so much
more now. But what did it take. It took people
understanding and talking, and I hope that this has changes
now for you as well, and it'll take people going no,
be you, where your hair however you want like, why
wouldn't you wear your hair a certain way? It just
doesn't make sense. And I mean, if a guy can

(59:07):
show up to an office with a mohawk or whatever
the hell hairstyles that guys normally have, why can't you
wear your natural hair? Why can't you put braids in
your hair? The fact that we're having this conversation to
me is bizarre, But I am grateful for you to
have like that. You're saying this to me because it
will change the people who listen to this. It really will.

(59:29):
And it's taking a lot, I know, for the two
of you to be vulnerable right now. I'm not ignoring
that at all. And I know I understand that you
have to grow this thick skin and let things kind
of like roll off of your you know, roll off
of your shoulder. Otherwise you can be easily labeled like
aggressive or if you just keep on standing up for yourself.

(59:50):
You know, it's like everything, if I really pointed out
when I was working at my other job, if I
really really pointed out every little thing that was done
that I knew was borderline racist or just you know,
blatantly racist, I would seem like this righteous person that
just like takes no crab, and I don't want to

(01:00:11):
be that. I kind of just want to be like, hey,
you know what you said wasn't cool or it made
me feel this way, And I don't want to become emotional.
I don't want to come I don't want to be
you know, like problematic or yeah, but you always in
some sort of conflict and yeah, it's not me. I'm
just telling you this. And then it just seems like
that comes off that way. And I get that because
a lot of times we just talk about females overall

(01:00:32):
have that same problem. I like, I'm problematic at work
if I'm complaining about something, but my co host Anthony,
if he says that, it's like oh, okay, cool, it's
it's exactly and I'm like, excuse me, I'm problematic. It's
so first of all, it's a female problem, but then
you add on the fact that it's a black female,
It's it's another level for you guys. Yeah, I CANSID.

(01:00:54):
You're looking at a two of you being like yeah,
I know, welcome. It's such a good conversation to like
finally just like yeah, I haven't just like put it
out there like yeah, and I feel relieved having this
discussion and I felt and it's helpful that you're on
this call too, right, because otherwise I would be like
really like did I Yeah, I would feel like did

(01:01:16):
I say the right thing? But it's like you're validating
like everything you set you're saying. I'm like, I am
with you, like I get it, like I agree more. Well, then,
do you think now, because of having this conversation with Tanisha,
do you feel a sense of Okay, I can be
more of myself or I can do this, I can

(01:01:37):
show my face and does also everything happening around us,
do you feel that you do have a little bit
more support, even if it's just a little then we
did maybe when we talked a few months ago. I
don't think I do. Yeah. Weird, And it kind of
goes back to what Tanisha was saying, is like you

(01:01:58):
still because you have we have of our own people too.
It's not just it's not just white people, like there
are black people that will critique the heck out of you.
And it's like, like, why so I think I still
don't feel that level of Yeah, yeah, I feel support
from a personal level. People that actually know me. They

(01:02:20):
know the name, they know who I am, they know
what I'm about. I feel support from those people, from
people that don't know me, maybe just know the business.
I don't. I don't feel that support. I hope that
you're wrong in that sense that maybe you don't feel
it and it's but it is actually there and this
does change things. I know for me, I am finally

(01:02:41):
looking at things with a different filter to be to
try my hardest to understand what it's like for you
without again, like I said, like going out of going
up to the at the grocery store to someone and
being like, so, what's your life been like? Because that's
not going to be the thing to do, and I
hope people don't do that to you. But just having

(01:03:01):
this understanding that things may be different for you would
be amazing. And saying what I said earlier about females
in the office, having managers who understand that, Oh wait,
have I been treating this female differently because she expressed
his concern or she has emotions? Have I been thinking
she's emotional but just that's how she talks, or in

(01:03:24):
the way that managers over the last few years have
been slowly adjusting in that sense I hope that people
have this awakening and think, oh wait, is it different
for them or have I been looking at this company
differently because X Y Z. And it's going to be
tough for people to realize that if they are. That's
one of the hardest things I think for people is
realizing that they've been wrong or they've been doing something wrong.

(01:03:46):
And a lot that's why all the emotions are coming out,
that's why it's all happening. But when when that happens
to people in any sense, they grow And I I
really you, guys, I you will have my support forever,
and I promise and I hope that you'll have this
part of everyone on this podcast no matter what you do,
especially Tonay. You going into a new world and doing
new things, and I want people to support the new business.

(01:04:08):
But both of you being in the corporate world. We
had a woman I want to ask your opinion on this.
We had a woman call into our show this week
and she said, I'm a black female. My company of
a hundred and sixty employees. My CEO has not released
any statement at all on black lives matter at all,
What my company does to support diversity, what it's going

(01:04:30):
to do moving forward nothing. Her question was do I
reach out to my CEO? So what do either of
you think? And what do you has your company done something?
What is your take on that? I think yes, but
in the role that I have, I worked closely with
the CEO, so for me, it's not it's not a
big deal. So I don't know that I could speak
on any other situation. But it's interesting because I saw

(01:04:52):
something it kind of goes with what you're saying, but
I read it and it was on LinkedIn and this
woman was speaking about how a black people should not
be writing the communication that it's going to go to
the rest of the world to speak on behalf of
a company that's run by a white person, Like what

(01:05:13):
does that feel like? Puts yourself? Yeah, So it's interesting
how like that conversation went and how people were commenting,
and it was just like it hit me so hard,
like wow, like sometimes we're putting these situations where we're
speaking because maybe they don't know what to say, and
you know, and that could be true, but at the

(01:05:35):
same time, like how painful is it for someone to
have to do that, and how it could be tough
and you know, we have all these emotions. So I mean,
I think it's interesting. But in terms of answering your
question about talking to the CEO or whoever the leadership is,
I feel like you should, Tanisia, if you're bold enough,
you know, if I have not noticed what United has

(01:05:58):
said or done. But I don't think that. I know
for a fact that United United has included a lot
of diversity, because now I see before what you When
I thought of a flight attendant, she was white, slender
and tall, and that was the image of what a
flight attendant looked like. And now that's not I'm a

(01:06:19):
flight defendant and I'm far from that, you know. So
like there has been some changes, and I think that
it's just deeply rooted. We have a lot of digging
to do to get to the court, to get to where,
you know, and I don't think that's something that we
could ever Well, I'm not going to say that. I
want to be positive. You just have to really be
bold because we're not there yet. Correct, So you still

(01:06:43):
want to be careful with writing into this company because
what happens is and what I've seen is when you
cannot get in trouble for something. Because I've worked in
corporate I worked for Progressive, I've worked for Chase, and
I've noticed this path I turn, and it's like they'll
get you for something else, and you don't want to

(01:07:04):
be put in that position. You know. Okay, they don't
want to just outright fire you because you challenged the CEO.
But now all of a sudden, you want to stay.
You got not be late. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah,
exactly when we're taking you out the door, and they're
not going to say it was really because of you
speaking out, but they're gonna say, hey, yeah, you were late,
so um, it's gonna have to let you go. And
you have no argument behind that. So if she's bold

(01:07:27):
enough to go ahead and and and go out there
and you know, put it out on a limb and say, hey,
you know, stand up for what's right. A part of
the reason why we are here where we are today's
because people were not bold enough to stand out and
say if they you know, if you're right. I'm sure
back in the days of slavery, there were some white
people who were probably like that's light, but they didn't

(01:07:47):
say anything. And that's why I just kept ongoing. And
that's why this whole thing where we're saying, now, your
silence is basically you know what I mean, it's basically
not aiding silence to the other side rhymes you can't
forget it, but it's true. Yes, silence is violence. So
like for her, I think that she should go out there,
but not everyone has it in them to be a revolutionary.

(01:08:09):
You know, I don't. I'm scared. I'm still scared. I'm
still scared to even put my pain, my name on
my face on my website. And it's kind of like that.
How does kind of out the box now? Like you know,
surprised everybody after the sep um Well, I do want
to tell you, guys, I know the answer. She did
email her CEO and and she called back into the

(01:08:30):
show and she said he actually had because I said,
do it, but are you going to be happy? Our
question was are you going to be happy? After they
then put out a message, are you still going to
be mad at your company for not reacting? And it
took you to respond? And she reached out and he
had a very heartfelt message back from what I understand,
and he said that he had something drafted, but he

(01:08:51):
was stuck on what to say. In some of the
parts and he didn't know what to do, and then
when he did send it out, she was like, it
was everything I hoped and she was very happy. That
kind of restored her faith in the company. Now, not
everyone's situation is going to be a fairy tale like
that one. But I think you're right if you're bold enough.
And I think it is going to take a lot
of people white, black, no matter, male, female, everything being

(01:09:12):
bold after this, and not everyone has to be, you know,
because then no one's bold if everyone's doing it. But
it will take those people. And I think bold will
also go hand in hand with being anti racist, calling
out your friends for making jokes or doing things or
touching hair or making comments. It's gonna have to be
being bold, and it's gonna come from white people and

(01:09:34):
also come from black people for you guys to make
sure you're calling people out. And I've been saying that
it's okay to be called out. Shanika did it to
me in the in the last episode when she said
you should you know, I was thinking you should have
had more pepper in your podcast or do your research. Yeah,
with different things, And I think being called out as
a part of adulting, and I had a conversation with
my friend about that this week. Just because you're called

(01:09:57):
out doesn't mean like it's the end of the world
for you or you you were wrong and grow from it.
That's like, it's okay. I hope we don't attack each
other when we're calling each other out, but having a conversation.
I can say that a million times, but I hope
that people can. And one of the things that I
want to end on is Tunisha. In your episode with Me,
your original episode with Me, we were talking about side
hustles and how do people find what they do and

(01:10:19):
you said to me, you don't have to dig that deep.
What do you love doing? And for you, you just
loved painting your nails and you launched the whole company
out of it. And I started listening to a little
bit of your episode and I heard that, and for me,
I was like, I forgot she said that, and it's
so true. So today I actually started making a list

(01:10:40):
of the things that I love and because I've been
trying to find something else or like what can I
do in the future, and I didn't know where to start.
So you told me that she only likes to lay
with your cats. Well, you know what's so funny and
I don't remember, and I love that you remember that
because the number one thing on my list that I
like is cats. I remember you saying that, You're like,

(01:11:04):
how can I make money by laying a home with
my pats? Something? Okay? Maybe a little bit more, a
little bit more okay, fair, But I love that exercise
for people to do what do you love doing? And
I think that will help a lot of people. I
think that's super inspiring. And I don't know if you've
shared that publicly other than on the podcast, but your story,

(01:11:24):
that story, I think you need to share from you
and your company and denay same thing with you if
you have stories about what your parents taught you about
working hard. I know it's so easy for me to
be like, go do that, co share that, But people
want to know your story now more than ever. They
want to hear your story. They want to hear from you,
they want to hear how you got to where you've

(01:11:45):
gotten as a female, as a black female business owner,
with all the obstacles that have been in your way,
Because that's more inspiring than a lot of people's stories.
Because the fact that you are scared to put your
face next to your business and you haven't been using
a void and you've still become successful. Is huge. Now
it's going to happen when you actually do that and
share your story and I'm excited to be along for

(01:12:06):
that ride and say it, Well, what if it turns
it all around? That was the whole point of finding it.
What if we lose followers when we just spoke about that,
or if it's like, oh, because the people are losing
followers not I've been going into comments when I look
at like, yeah, I d have a jeep, I D
have a jeep wrangler, and that is my I never
I don't want to be mad at at Jeep. So
I decided to go on their page to see did

(01:12:27):
they post a little black? And then I'm reading the
comments and people are like all lives matter, you know what.
I'm out, I'm not, you know, I don't like like,
I'm just like, what if that happens to me? What if?
Like now, my my my sales were rolling and everything
work good, and then boom, I'm like, hey guys checking in.
I'm Tunisia, I'm the owner, and people are like, you
know what now I'm out, and I don't. I don't

(01:12:49):
have an answer for that. I don't have what if
it backfires? I don't have that answer for you. That
drives me nuts that it could happen. I lost followers
when I started speaking out, and I don't. I don't
have a product that I'm selling on Instagram, so it's
easy for me to say fuck them. What I did
say is the people who left with the people who
need to hear these messages. And that's the problem because

(01:13:11):
you're just and it's you're staying and you're staying with
like minded people, people who are like you. And I
saw a lot of people this week saying like, how
many black females are black business owes are black people overall?
Do you follow on Instagram? What does your feed look like?
And I was like, I'm I just I'm part of
that problem. And once you start following different people, I mean,
in like four days, I was like, I have learned

(01:13:33):
so much. Granted we're all trying to learn things right now,
but we have this world of social media right and
and you run your company's off of it. I don't
want to say you have to be willing to lose
people to gain people because it's your livelihood. But it
is true if everyone is like, screw it, I'm not
buying no polish from Tunisia anymore anymore because she's black.
I mean, that is absolutely absurdain and I can't see

(01:13:56):
that happening. I can't see people saying I'm not I'm
not buying dog treats because part of the business is
owned via black female. Now as I say that to you,
you can easily say that's because you have white privilege,
and you can say that and you don't understand it.
And I know you can say that to me and
you're right, But holy fuck, I hope something it comes
out of this. Right now people are hearing it, and

(01:14:16):
people are seeing this movement that we do need to
make sure we are helping and supporting more than ever
because you have gone through so much and you've been
scared to show your faces. And I feel like I'm
just like yelling at the two of you right now
because I want you to take bold and do those things.
And I'm like, this podcast started my website next month
and say did she prohe? I'm gonna you know, I

(01:14:40):
don't think it's about the people like on a large scale,
I'm looking at the people. On a small scale, I'm
looking at the companies that I want to target because
I know that placement in department stores comes with trust
from the general public, and those are the people that
I'm afraid because I want the product to speak so
far as self, not so much the followers, but the

(01:15:02):
people who are in power or the people who have
the ability to bring me from point A to point B.
If they find out that, I will lose that opportunity.
Do you think now that companies are releasing messages are
saying that they are going to be more diverse if
the action actually happens, right, if they actually do that,
do you think that does change things for you if

(01:15:24):
you are trying to get in a department store. Yes,
I mean, I hate to like leverage it, but I'm like,
I have to take advantage of this momentum right now,
and I have to reach out and say, you know, hey,
x y Z huge Corporation. I'm a black woman, I
have a phenomenal product. Not only am I a black woman,
but I have a phenomenal product, and I really feel

(01:15:46):
like my company aligns with your company and we would
be a great fit. You know because at the same time,
I'm not begging for a spot, I am not acting
for a pity party. I'm more so saying that I
deserve at this table. Yes, but at the same time,
I'm all, actually, let me I need to correct you there.
You've earned a seat at that table, you have a half,

(01:16:08):
You've worked your ass, done the footwork exactly, you know,
And I've done every single thing that I needed to do,
and I you know, I feel more confident to do
that now. Before I didn't feel confident to say I
earned the seat at the table. I deserve it. I
should be here. I'm not asking for a favor. I'm
not asking for a hand out. I'm saying I have

(01:16:29):
something that I think you need to you know, you
you know, whatever store it is, whatever department store it is,
what a pharmacy it is. I've seen other brands in there.
I know that my product is just as good or
I'm going to toot my own horn better. Before I
would be scared, But now I'm kind of like a
little bit more inclined to send that email that I've
been holding onto. Yeah. Well, you guys, I love the

(01:16:52):
both of you so much now, more than ever that
you got you got real with me. We didn't just
talk about starting your business and your logo and you're
no Paul Cap and the ingredients and you're the dog Biscuits,
Like we actually had a real conversation. And thank you
guys for doing that for me, for the people who
listen to this podcast, for opening my mind up even
more and being real with me. And I'm so proud

(01:17:15):
to know the two of you. And you are strong women.
You are strong Black women, you are strong black female
business owners. You are all of these things. And I
can't wait for the world to finally also see that too.
Thank you. Sorry that it took this long for people
to realize that. And I'm here and I'm I'm ready
to support you guys more than ever and I can't

(01:17:35):
wait to it for everyone to hear your story. Thank you, guys,
Thank you, Thank you Carlin, thank you so much for
being here and listening to Side Hustlers. You can support
Tannisha at law Beauty Essentials dot com, and you can
support Denay at bark O Bite dot com and Denay
Travels dot com. You can also check out each of
their individual episodes of Side Hustlers. I put all the

(01:17:58):
links of everything I just said it below in the
description of this podcast to make it super easy. You've
also got their social media handles there as well. Please
support these women and anyone who has been on this podcast.
I appreciate you doing that and helping out small business
owners of any kind. And I hope that this episode
and last week's episode inspires you to have uncomfortable conversations

(01:18:19):
with people in your life, no matter their skin color.
I know over the last few weeks, I've had so
many conversations with people at work, in my family, my friends,
and it's helped us all learn so much. Now, if
you didn't listen to last week's episode, I suggest going
back and doing that. Checking out the episode with Keita
and Shanika because they're incredible as well. Please reach out

(01:18:40):
to me. If you've got anyone you think should be
on Side Hustlers, you can do that. It's Side Hustlers
podcast at gmail dot com. My name is Carla Marie.
This podcast has been produced by Houston and until next week,
keep hustling and be a good human. Two

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