March 28, 2025 • 45 mins
Samuels unpacks the recapitalization and revitalization process of the cable channel and digital platform launched in 2013 by Sean Combs, who exited the business entirely last year as his legal problems increased. Samuels led the complicated process of turning Revolt into an employee-owned company, a rarity for a sizable media brand. In a separate interview, BET founder Robert Johnson gives his perspective on the state of Black-owned media, and whether he regrets selling BET in 2001.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My
guest is Detavio Samuels, CEO of Revolt. Samuels and I
unpacked the process of recapitalization and revitalization of the cable
(00:30):
channel launched in twenty thirteen by Sean Combs. Colmes, of course,
is the one time music mogul and lifestyle entrepreneur who
is now in federal custody awaiting trial in New York
on three counts of racketeering and sex trafficking. He's been
accused of heinous crimes. Colmes was key to Revolt's origin story.
(00:51):
The channel was created in a very different time for media,
as Samuels and I discuss, But Colmbs has had very
little involvement in the operation of Revolts for years. He
became fully divested of his stake last year as his
legal problems mounted. Now Revolt is owned by its employees.
That's a rarity for a media company of any size.
(01:12):
Samuels led the complicated process with the focus of helping
Revolt thrive in the company's second decade. Samuels came to
Revolt as chief operating Officer in twenty twenty. He was
promoted to CEO in twenty twenty one. I connected with
Samuels to check in on Revolt after the crisis involving
colms as part of my reporting for the Variety cover
(01:35):
story that published this week on Charlemagne the God. Charlemagne
is a prime example of a new model media mogul
adept at tapping into digital distribution to build audiences across
platforms radio, TV, podcasts, live media merch. I've always been
interested in independence and mavericks who blaze their own trails.
(01:57):
The social media revolution allows for creators to do just that,
but some are able to build more than just engaging
social media feeds. There's been an undeniable surge of creativity
and innovation in next generation media outlets that are squarely
targeting Black audiences. Charlemagne and his podcast networks veteran journalist
(02:19):
Roland Martin and his Blackstar Network, which serves up daily
news and commentary shows via YouTube and other platforms. Martin
shows look like any other cable news roundtable shows, except
for maybe the salty language. There are many more examples.
It's an exciting upsurge of independent media at a time
(02:39):
when a half dozen corporate giants hold more sway than
ever over traditional media. As part of my reporting, I
also reached out to Robert Johnson, the founder and former
owner of Beet Network, for his perspective on how the
landscape has evolved for black targeted media. Johnson had a
lot to say, as you'll hear following this Samuel's interview.
(03:01):
And that's all coming up after this break, and we're
back with the conversation with Revolt CEO de Tavio Samuels.
Datavio Samuels, CEO of Revolt, thank you so much for
joining me today.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Of course, it's a pleasure and an honor to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Let's talk. You know, there's been a lot going on
at Revolt in the last couple of years, as there
has been in all of PayTV. It's not exactly been
a chill time for the business. And you know, you
run it. It's never been easy to run an independent
or smaller media company, and Revolt has really the we'll
talk about the origin story of Revolt, but it has
(03:47):
was really born out of a specific time and place
in television, and that time and place in that dynamic
has changed one hundred and eighty degrees from the time
that it was from the time that was Revolt was born.
So let's let me just start by here we are.
We are in March twenty twenty five, the thirty thousand
foot view. I know we're going to talk about some
changes and some reorganization that you are bringing to Revolt.
(04:11):
Give me your vision for what you know, what Revolt
is in today's media landscape. What does it offer to
an audience that is unique and that is going to
be your you know, your selling proposition to viewers.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, sure, I think that you know what we would
say is right now, Revolt is the number one youth
culture brand. I think this is a space that historically,
you know, may have been owned by people like Red
Bull who did it through kind of adventures, X Games,
who did it through extreme sports. You have people like
Busfeed who kind of did it through buzzy quizzes. Revolt
(04:46):
has been doing that exact same thing reaching today's youth culture,
but through a very much a multiculture and specifically a
black lens, right, and so that's who we are today.
We have on our platform of the biggest creators out
known today, right from Kresha to Drink Champs with Noriega
(05:07):
and Djefn. Right now we got Brandon Marshall x NFL
football player who's helping us build kind of what we
see as a black sports center. And so we partner
with the biggest creators in the game to have the
biggest conversations. That's really what Revolt is right now. The
dream is really to build this kind of multi platform
media implop pire and the way that's never been built
before with the multicultural lens.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
You've seen it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know, you've got your paramounts, You've got your disneys,
you have all of these things that are great brands.
But historically media has always centered whiteness, the stories of whiteness,
and so what Revolter is trying to do is elevate
black and brown stories. You know, the truth is that
around the world, our white brothers and sisters make up
about ten to fifteen percent of the population, and so.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
The global majority is people of color.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
The truth in the US is, ever since the twenty
ten census, what they've been saying is that non Hispanic
white power relation is shrinking, Black and brown are growing,
and so we see a tremendous opportunity to elevate the
stories of these historically underrepresented groups, knowing that today everybody
is going to come watch and consume. And so what
(06:15):
we would say is that, you know, for Revolts specifically,
the DJ might be black, the music might be black,
but everybody's invited to the party.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Tell me about in terms of in terms of programming,
it's largely unscripted. You have a lot of conversation shows.
How do you how do you o? You talked about
partnering with creators that certainly bring you an audience. How
do you break through with that?
Speaker 5 (06:42):
What?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
What have you found has been the way to get
to just in the sea of content that people have
on their phones, let alone their let alone their media feeds.
How do you break through?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah? I think you just nailed it for us. It
is a massive bet on the creators that we partner with, right.
I think when you look at most media companies, as
a chief content officer who's leading a bunch of teams
to develop programming from whatever that lens is, right, our
lens is not necessarily content first, it's creator first. Who
is that creator? What is their lens and what is
(07:14):
their audience? I get here because you know, probably back
in early twenty let's call it twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen,
I was working at TV one underneath Alfred Liggins and
Kathy Hughes, and I can remember every day waking up
looking at the Nielsen reports, right, Beet two hundred thousand
viewers in prime time, WeTV, Bravo three hundred thousand viewers
(07:35):
at prime time. And then I remember opening my phone,
and this was when Will Smith was kind of just
starting to do his run in social media, and I'm
looking at Will Smith, a million views on him jumping
out of a helicopter in less than twenty four hours, right,
and I'm going, oh my god, this game is shifting.
Creators influencers are actually the new media, and if they
(07:55):
ever learn or realize how to play the game and
the way the networks are playing the game going to
be pretty dangerous for us all. And so since that day,
I've been always working to combine the two. Find the
creators with the biggest audiences with clear point of views
on the world, Let's bring them into our ecosystem. And
then we do what they can't do on their own.
(08:16):
We help amplify their content. We bring our production values
and production quality to the content that they're already exciting
about making, and in some examples, are already making it right.
So if you take examples like Karrisha Please Koresha was
on Instagram with Saucy Santana doing Instagram Lives right, we
took that same show, elevated the production quality of it
(08:37):
and made it a hit. Another example is Fat Joe.
Fat Joe was on Instagram doing his Instagram Live during COVID.
We took that show elevated and now he's launching with
a premium show on Stars.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
That he made quite a name for himself during COVID.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So I one hundred percent believe that there's a lot
of great, amazing content out there that will die on
the vine because it never gets discovered. To ensuring that
we get discovered is dealing with the creators who are
already big voices in the culture, already have big audiences
in the culture, and working with them to create the
content and the stories that we believe can penetrate and
break through the culture.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
You because as you say, everything is that everything is
changing about the game and it used to be. Of course,
it used to be all about exclusivity. The only place
you could see friends was NBC. The only place that
you could see Saturday Night Live was NBC. The only
place you could see in living color was Fox back
in the day. Now you know Revolt content is widely
(09:35):
distributed on YouTube on different platforms. How does that world
change the game? It would seem like that would benefit
you having the big creator names, if there's many ways
to come in and find people to find them.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, a Revolt we say we're pioneering the new era
of entertainment, and for us, that's about three things. One
this first piece, we talked about working with the creators
who shape and move culture to dominating social. You see
a lot of linear networks, a lot of radio platforms
that are really still not focused on playing the game.
(10:09):
And social, we talked about being discovered. If you are
not winning the game at social, you're never going to
be discovered, right, So making sure that you're you know,
resources and focuses on winning and dominating in social. And
then number three is the piece that you're talking about,
which really is a multi platform distributed model. I think
the old model based on exclusivity, and we still have
(10:30):
to do exclusivity because we've got, you know, a linear
business and some great partners who have continued to stand
by us in the cable industry. But barring what we
give them, our kind of viewpoint on the world and
on the landscape as relates to the distribution of content
is the old model was very much a media first,
media centric, Right. We tell you when your magazine show up,
(10:51):
we tell you when this show is going to be air,
and you're going to go up for disappointment in this time.
The new model is based on more of a user
sent trick model.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
We first all discover the content at social and then
wherever we discover it, we go to whatever our favorite
platforms are.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
To consume it.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
If it's podcasts, you go to Spotify, Apple, if it's TV,
you might be going to Netflix, Disney wherever. Right, And
so for us, the big win is to be distributed everywhere.
One of the reasons why you see us do these
talk shows is because it allows us to do it right.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So I'll use.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Kresha again as an example. When we used to air
when we air an episode of Karsha, you will see
her be top ten trending topic in Twitter, right, dominating social,
You'll see her be top five maybe top yeah, top
five trending and Apple Music podcasts right. And then you'll
see her be top five, top ten trending on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That is the idea for us that wherever people want
to consume, however they want to consume based on their
own personal behaviors, that's where our content needs to live.
And so that for us is the future outside and
making sure that we take care of our partners on
the linear side and that they get the exclusive content
that they deserve. As a brand in general, we very
much are a distributed, multi platform viewpoint on the world.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
What I think, I know the answer, But what are
the social platforms that really move the needle for you?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
For sure, our two biggest ones that we focus on
our Instagram and TikTok. Those are the ones that we
see have been incredible in terms of helping the brand.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Go viral quote unquote viral and people show up.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I would say, you know, maybe as a close you know,
three and four for us are probably Facebook and X
But I think also because our audience tends to be
a little bit younger or skew younger. TikTok and Instagram
are the go tos for us. That algorithm on TikTok
is something special. You know, I've never seen a social
media platform that shows your content to so many viewers
(12:48):
and gives you the opportunity to go viral. I'm watching
kids go from zero followers to a million followers overnight,
and so yeah, definitely a very specific or very special
platform and very much alive today.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And they help in. The algorithm is strong enough to like,
if somebody likes one piece of content that comes through Revolt,
they'll likely get served up more Revolt content. That's why
you're smiling like that.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean we've built a TikTok audience.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You know, we've been on Instagram for you know, a
problem with a guess and say almost a decade, right,
two million, you know, a couple of million followers. We
basically have almost the same amount of followers on TikTok
and we launched maybe two years ago.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
What about YouTube? Is that a significant distributor for you?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I would argue that, you know, our two largest video
consumption platforms are going to be YouTube and our linear network. Again,
given the demographic of our audience, YouTube right now is
the number one streaming platform, so many people are not
just watching it on phones, but they're now watching it
on CT.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Those lines crossed just the other day. I'm sure you
saw more people are watching YouTube on television than on
their phones or anything, which is pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Absolutely, which is why we can put the content that
we can put there. And it worked because people are
very much in a lean back, sit back experience. And
so yes, without question, YouTube is a massive, massive focus
for us.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Interesting and in terms of just in terms of pure monetization,
is it you still have a linear business, so you
have some affiliate revenue coming in, But would you say
that just in the world where we know that traditional
linear cable is certainly not growing, I would imagine that
that's putting more pressure on you on the ad side
and brand side.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
No, you're one hundred percent right. So I got to
the business in twenty twenty. Back then, the business was
probably you know, two fifths advertising, three fifths linear side
of the business. And seeing what was happening to the
industry with core cutting and the like, we put a
massive focus on growing and expanding our digital footprint and
(14:58):
then doing that being able to grow and our advertising business,
and so yes, over the last four years, our digital
footprint has drown in quantum leaps, as has our ad business.
Our ad business today, when compared to when I took
over in twenty twenty, is about six times bigger than
it was. And so when you look at our numbers now,
I would say the linear side of the business is
(15:19):
about one fifth of the business and advertising is four
fifths of the business, and a tremendous shift over the
course of the last few years.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's a big that's a big
fundamental business model. I know it will not be a
surprise to you to know that in talking to a
lot of people in advertising and people that are that
are really building impressive black owned media businesses, which I've
covered media long enough to know that we are seeing
against all odds, against the consolidation, against the biggest of
(15:49):
the big, it is undeniable that you are seeing real
pockets of sizable businesses starting to grow, which is incredible,
and it's also utterly can't even believe the stories that
I'm hearing, anecdotal stories of people knocking on the doors
of the big holding companies. Would you say, do you
(16:10):
feel like is Revolt able to play in the general
market waters or is it largely that the advertising that
flows through Revolts is still flowing through smaller, frankly more
narrowly targeted urban budgets.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I would say Revolt has been fortunate and I think
we're unique in this and that we are able to
pull from both. Again, you go back to the way
we position ourselves as the number one youth culture brand.
When you look at our audience, it's very much cross cultural.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
We touch people of.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Every single ethnicity. Today the audience is about sixty six
percent people of color, one third white, So we touch everyone, right.
And then again, you know, our pitch to brands is
we are cross cultural. We touch everybody, but we over
index with those fast growing black and brown populations, right,
So we think we've got an audience that's magic.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
It's hard to reach.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Everybody wants it, and so that allows us to go
after those general market budgets, which is even more critical
now because I think you know, the tremendous growth that
we've seen from black media over the course of the
last few years was largely driven by brands committing the
DEI being focused on and intentional about injecting money and
(17:20):
resources into black owned media.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
I think gone are those days?
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So I'm actually quite nervous and quite worried about what's
going to happen to black media going forward. Feeling much
better about Revolt because again we can pull from both budgets.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from
Revolt CEO to Tavio Samuels. And we're back with more
from Revolt CEO Totavio Samuels, and stay tuned after that
for comments from Beet founder Robert Johnson.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I mean, let's just go there. We are talking the
day after the State of the Union, which was very
hard for this good chunk of America that was very,
very disheartened by what they heard. I realized, we're still,
you know, not even two months in. But what do
you what has what have you felt has been the
impact on the business climate, the overall business climate for Revolt?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It is making the job more difficult. I'll answer at
first from a black media perspective and then a Revote perspective,
because again, I think Revolt is a little bit different
from the rest of the category.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
From a black media.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Perspective, I'm incredibly nervous about what's going to happen. My belief,
my forecast today is that we will lose some black
media outlets over the course of the next few years
as the White House is being very focused on dismantling DEI,
as corporations are cow towing or accepting it and using
(18:55):
it as an excuse to offload black media. I'm very
nervous for the category and what happens to the group.
So that's one from a revolt standpoint, It's actually been
really interesting. So you know, for me, I'm sitting across
from CEO CMOS chief media officers trying to understand whether
they put statements out or not where they sit, and
(19:18):
what has consistently come back to me is, don't necessarily
pay attention to the words, pay attention to the deeds
and the behaviors.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I know that there are a lot of brands, a
lot of advertisers who are making these statements to roll
THEI back, not because they don't believe, because literally they're
just trying to get out of the crosshairs of Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Robbie Starbucks, etc.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Right, And so for many of them, I believe it
is a tactic to take the bullseye off of their chests.
That said, they still many of them still feel very stuck.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
To me, when you.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Have platforms that were rooted in supporting black entrepreneurs or
rooted in supporting black creators and you still want to
move forward with it, but now you got to take
black out the name, and now you want to make
sure that if it's out there in the marketplace, that
again Donald Trump or Robbie Starbucker not coming at you
for it. For me, well, I believe that the money
(20:16):
will still be there for Revolt because we can pull
from from the black side of the budget as well
as the general market side of the budget. I am
feeling right now, brands feeling stuck. They don't have the
platforms to move on. They don't know what stories they're
trying to tell, and it is all rooted in just
fear of persecution from the right and from the White House.
(20:39):
And so for me, the future of Revolt, you know
we're gonna make it. But what I'm trying to do
is make sure that we don't just survive, that we thrive.
And part of thriving is going to be figuring out
how to unstick these brands so that they can have
platforms and initiatives that do the work that they really
want to do, but again without being in the crosshairs
of people from the other side.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Revolt we know was started by Shawn Combs. I think
the world knows that he had stepped away from the
business a long time ago and now formally is completely out.
So I just want to state that. So let's take
it from there in terms of you obviously had a
big transition for the company and then what led to
the decision to make it an employee owned largely employee
(21:24):
owned operation.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah, there are a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
One, from the day I took the job to come
to Revolt, I had a goal or a dream of
trying to make sure that at the minimum, the management
team all had equity. My dream was really for all
employees to have equity. So that's been a dream for
me since twenty twenty two, as you know, to your point,
and thank you for saying it. As Shawn Colms got
the allegations, he immediately stepped down as chairman. The next
(21:51):
piece was him selling his shares in the business. But
that is a process and that takes time. I Cynthia,
the hardest thing I've ever done from a business perspective.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
While the Revolt brand.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Has been is beloved, is appreciated, proof that we're still
alive today, you know, post all of that crisis. The
fact that we're loved is proven by the fact that
we're still alive after going through that crisis. The goal
was to figure out how to stay black owned, right,
and that is a very difficult job because what we
(22:25):
know is that black black businesses in general get like
one percent of private equity money, one percent of venture
capital money, right, so there's not a lot of money
out there for us to pour into our business. You
also just can't take money from anyone because the money
has to come from someone who is a person of color.
And the interesting thing about the wonderful United States of
(22:45):
America is that when you want to count, when you
want to know who the white, richest, richest white people
in America are, you don't know most of them.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
We know many more now.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
The Bezos, the Zuckerberg's, right, so people could probably named
the first seven after past the first seven, nobody knows
who they are, right, But in the black world is
very different because in this country, really the only way
black people have been able to build wealth is through
sports or entertainment. So you can name them all. And
(23:18):
so as you're starting to think about, how do you
know who's going to buy these shares while keeping us
black on, you can Oprah, Kevin hart Lebron Like again,
the list of people is you can name it in
two minutes, right, And so you know, having conversations with
all of those people trying to figure out the right
way to do it, at some point in time it
became abundantly clear that nobody really needed to save us,
(23:43):
that we needed to save ourselves, that we needed to
rely on no one else. I saw this quote the
other day on TV. It said, never rely on your
opposition to keep you safe. Always rely on yourself. And
so I think we seize the moment to rely on
ourselves and to put the power and the equity and
the hands of the employee group. And so you know,
we raised a bit of debt, did essentially what is
(24:06):
some version of a leverage buyout, and how to say
that today our employees are the largest shareholder group on
the cap table. If and when we take this company
and we exit. We will be creating a lot of
wealth for people who historically have been left out of
the wealth creation machine. Right, You're talking about a company
that is fifty percent women, that is seventy percent multicultural,
(24:27):
and so a tremendous opportunity to do something really positive
and shift the algorithm for a lot of families going forward.
So excited about that opportunity, you know, making it happen
for the team a Revolt. Part of it is they
deserved it. This is a team who is given their
blood swat in tears. This is a team who already
has it's an identity brand. These are already people who
(24:49):
love to wear a Revolt on their chest. And so
what we did was match their behaviors up with the
economic opportunity that they now have for Revolts. And so
excited to see where.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
That leads us.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
What's of an operation are you now?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And you're talking about in terms of number of people,
number of employees? Yeah, yeah, So the Vault today has
a little bit over you know, she should think of
us as a business that's typically around one hundred to
one hundred and fifty employee base and then probably around
one hundred. You know what we were maybe maybe people
you consider more like Parma lancers.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, exactly. For production, you go up and down exactly
exactly that. Do you do most of your production in
New York or are you all over the place.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We're a bit all over the place. But where we
have tried to consolidate production and just anything is in Atlanta.
You know, we saw early a.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Lot of talent, obviously hotbed.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
It's a hotbed for talent, it's a hot bed for
hip hop culture. It is definitely becoming like a black
Hollywood in terms of film and television and all of that.
And then when we looked at the data, it's where
a large portion of our audience was. And so today
the business is kind of anchored in New York, LA
and Atlanta. New York's skews atle bit more sales, LA
(25:59):
skews a bit more or corporate, and then Atlanta is
what I would say is anytime you want to touch people, production, marketing, events,
all of those things tend to be kind of concentrated
in Atlanta.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
For those of us who remember covering the Comcast NBC takeover,
that was a long that was almost eighteen months of
regulatory review. The FCC put in a requirement as part
of them taking over NBC Universal, Comcast had to do
some things for the public good. And one of those
things that Comcast had to do in order to buy
(26:29):
NBC Universal way back in twenty eleven, which seems like
horse and buggy days compared to the media landscape that
we're in now, one of the things that they had
to make on Comcast cable system they had to make
ten new channels available and eight of them had to
be owned by had to come from owners of underrepresented backgrounds,
and that really did create a little mini bonanza. And
(26:53):
Shawn Combs at the time was one of those that
put in a proposal and his and it got it
had got greenlit, and you know, even in twenty eleven,
twenty twelve, it's it's it's a shame, it's it's sort
of a shame for the business that it took that
to get another black owned channel on the air. But
so let me so with that preamble, let me ask
(27:15):
you how is your relationship today with Comcasts because they
were sort of the you know, they were the seed
for you.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I'm actually so glad that you asked that question our
relationship with Comcasts has they Since I have been in
the seat, probably since the beginning of Revolt, they have
been phenomenal partners what I can speak to, since I've
been in the seat, they have been incredible partners. When
you look at our linear contracts, they are the longest
linear contracts that we have. You know, we always talk
(27:41):
about when white America catches the cold, Black America catches
the flu, and so when those things happen, you see
our black businesses suffering more.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
You see people giving us.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Shorter leashes and shorter term times on the opportunities that
they give us. Comcasts has never done any of that.
They actually live at the opposite end of that. And
then not only have they been incredible supporters of our
linear business, they have been the customer, one of the
customers that has utilized the Revote ecosystem the most. They
(28:10):
show up on the advertising side, they show up on
the insights and research side that you know, we've got
an incredible agency that does work to drive our media business,
but also can function as a creative agency just helping
brands create you know, creative content on their own that's
not necessarily revolprin they've utilized the whole ecosystem, and so
I have a lot of love and a lot of
affinity for the good folks at comcasts.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
What areas of expansion you mentioned sports? I know you
just brought in a former NFL player, Bill Marshall, has
been on is on your air and seeing him do
some shows. What is your vision for.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
What that could be?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, this year is the year where we're expanding Revote
in terms of a couple of key verticals and capabilities.
From a vertical standpoint, this is going to be the
year where you see us prop up sports and do
it in a really big way. I'm expecting that our
sports vertical will have no less than one hundred hours
of programming hours associated with it. To your point, Brandon
Marshall bringing us at least fifty to sixty of them,
(29:06):
and then we'll probably have another fifty to sixty through
other programs. We've got some really exciting announcements actually coming
out with some overall deals that we just signed that'll
probably come out this month in March. So that's vertical one.
Vertical number two is gaming for us. It's just important
to ensure that brands can reach our audience through their
key passion points. And also you see a lot of
(29:27):
brands betting on sports and gaming, so it's like a
perfect marriage.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
So those if I may, when you say gaming, do
you mean like sports betting or do you mean like
video games?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Video games?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
But sports betting for us goes on that sports vertical,
so don't be surprised if you see.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
That one day as well.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And then from a capability standpoint, the two places we're
really focused on expanding this year is programmatic. Historically, or
since I've been here, no brand has been able to
buy us programmatically. It was really important that they buy us.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Oh wow, that's amazing because that is the life blood
of so much. That says so much. I'm glad you
mentioned that because that says so much about your revenue
stream that that you're only now going into programmatic. Wow,
that's exactly that's exciting.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
It's super exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
And we had to do that because I think a
lot of people under estimate black owned brands, and it
was important that people come through the front door so
they could hear all that we can do to help
grow their business and drive their business. And if you
give it to them programmatically, they never get that education,
they never get informed. And then they could also claim
that they were buying a black owned media company and
(30:32):
spending one thousand dollars a year, right, And so we
wanted to eliminate that. So yes, rolling out programmatic for
the first time this year. And then the next one
is you know, you're always trying to figure out you've
got this audience, how do you connect with them and
monetize them in very different ways short form, YouTube, audio,
live events. One of the pieces that we've been missing
(30:53):
since I've been here is premium content, and so looking
forward to some announcements over the course of the next
month to show the world HOWE Revolt is getting ready
to do premium content in a really big way.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Can I ask you to be a little more specific.
Are you talking about like scripted series kind of things.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Or just a little more high end all of the above,
but definitely definitely building a capability to do scripted in
a big way for the first time. But yes, it'll
also just be higher you know, I wanted you know,
more elevated expensive work deta.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
YO, tell me about your background what led you into business.
I know you worked in the in advertising before you
joined before you joined Revolt.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
So my background is I went to Duke University for
undergrad my second semester senior year, took a marketing course
and fell in love with marketing, and at that point
in time decided that I wanted to go to business school,
and so this was two thousand and two two thousand
and four. I end up going to Stanford Graduate School
(31:57):
of Business. I did my master's in business as well
as my massive education. My dream at that time going
into Stanford was to be a CMO, and so the
first job that I had at the business school was
working at Johnson and Johnson doing global marketing, and I
quickly realized and decided that I maybe didn't want to
be a CMO, largely driven by the fact that at
(32:21):
least my experience inside was that the way it felt
was the advertising agencies were doing all of the fun work,
ida and etc. And that my job on the inside
was to be a good filter to get them from
ten ideas to three ideas. They could then go up
the chain for one to be chosen. And I wanted
to be a part of the people who were developing
the ideation and a strategy whatnot. And so from there
(32:42):
I go work for my first black owned company, Don Coleman,
had an incredible company called Global Hue.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
An Advertising Agents.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Advertising agency exactly. We're the number one multicultural agency in
the nation. Weren't just doing black, we were doing Black, Latin,
X and Asian. We flipped that into doing general market.
I was running the Jeep brand across all ethnicities and
culture general market included in the US. So had a
really phenomenal run there, and then started to get tired
(33:12):
of making advertising commercials because we had just entered into
a world where no one wanted to watch them. Everybody
was ignoring them. People were skipping them, fast forwarding through them,
except when we made them for the Super Bowl. And
so that led me into the world of media. I
wanted to create content that people chose to consume versus
were interrupted with. And so from there I go work
(33:33):
from for Alt the bred Liggins and Kathy Hughes. There
I ran their digital division, I Won Digital, built their
branded content studio that was at TV one as a
TV one exactly, and built their cross platform, ran their
cross platform sales team, and then from there transitioned to
this incredible company.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Called revolts Well.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I took everything that I learned, everything I learned from
Johnson and Johnson and marketing, everything that I learned from
the creative agency side, everything that I learned from being
at Urban one, TV one, I one Digital, and am
now trying to deploy that into this incredible brand that
we have.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Here's the first of two bytes from Robert Johnson. Johnson
is one of the most successful black media entrepreneurs in history.
He launched Black Entertainment Television as the first black owned
cable channel in nineteen eighty. He sold it twenty one
years later to what was then Viacom for three billion. Today,
he runs the RLJ Company's portfolio, which has a range
(34:34):
of interests including stakes and hotels, car dealerships, and these
streaming channels. Here he details the origin story of BET.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
You Gotta Understand that I would at EP, the only
black cable network, black owned cable network simly owned YEP
for twenty years, twenty years before TV one came on
the scene, and the technology platform was cable programming, basic
(35:05):
cable channels what we call linear channels now basic cable channels,
but that's was the way it got hurt. If you
want to be on cable. It was e ep years
and it was the music video world. Gave access to
(35:26):
talented artists who eventually became superstars Michael Dex and Dannis
Decks and Beyonce, all of the recording artists who used
the video to get their fans focused on buying records
and takes and CDs there and at all during that time,
(35:52):
there never emerged a black news network. There were a
TIMPs at it, yeah, but it never gain traction. So
you go back and you start asking yourself why, and
you come down to two three reasons. Two prominent ones
(36:13):
them number one being access to capital, Yes, access to
enough money to get to take advantage of the distribution platforms.
Keep in mind, in black Print, the distribution platform was
(36:34):
subscription and newsstands, and newsstands were aliens, white on venues,
you know, some stores, grocery stores and places where you
can go in and buy. And then of course describers
to people at home. Radio was airways. You can't get
(36:55):
to the airways because the SDC had environments of being
licensed and you didn't have the capital to get line.
You couldn't get on the radio to provide your content
and information. Uh. And then came cable and the distribution
(37:15):
much the same way, you had to have access to
the capital to get to the technology. PET was delivered
be a satellite had to go up in this guide
to a satellite circle in the goat uh in the
geo state. They orbited around the goat and be fed
down to cable systems. Again, you have the other issue
(37:41):
picide capital. It becomes the gatekeepers. With the gatekeepers, they
were cable box. It's fortunately for me one of the
gatekeepers with John Malone who decided to put money and
allow me help me to create PET. So you put
the whole question of where media is going as you
(38:04):
got to look at that where it's been yeah, and
it's been capital flow is access to capital is still critical.
The distribution systems are still pretty much controlled by the
dominant majority of distribution owners white business companies, and the
competitions to generate revenue is the folk that comes had
(38:31):
to go back to capital because people black or white, brown,
they watch content and they want compelling content and for
the most part, compelling content costs money, and in order
to do that, you've got to have the capital. So
in the digital world, it's the digital platform of trying
(38:56):
to build a content attractive out apps for content attract
the streaming platform to appeal to audiences of all rape
trees and colors, and African Americans being one of the
heaviest uses a viewers and uses of content are very
(39:18):
much attracted to the people who want to generate money
off of subscription the streaming service of and or the
advertisers who want to sell products to that audience. So
the answer to the question is how do you define
black media? Is it based on its impact, based on
(39:38):
its ratings? Is it based on its influence in impacting
black lives or impacting white lives? Because a lot of
the civil rights movement gained its audience when National Television
owned you know, white over the CDs and NBC are
(39:59):
covering you know, the beatings, the hangings, and all of
that went on doing the rise of the rights movement.
So to get to where you are today digital one
thing digital has done for the first part is it
has eliminated the gatekeepers to a certain extent, but it
(40:23):
hasn't eliminated to access to capital problem. To become a
streaming platform, to become a digital platform, a YouTube, TV
or all of the other platforms that aggregate content and
(40:43):
put it out there, either on a subscription format or
on a advertiser combination subscription format. Capital still has to
be brought to bear right, And then when you start
looking at the expansion of digital content and distribution, you
(41:06):
do see a rise in content that may appeal directly
to the black consumer market. But that happened with beep.
BD was heavily predominant in showcasing music videos as I
said earlier, and now with expansion of platforms, the large
(41:35):
holders of these subscription platforms, the big dominant people who
now form who are now the gatekeepers, have to make
a decision or happening because they've made a decision that
we need to subscribe a dollar much the way it
cable operating it, and they started putting on programming, compelling programs,
(41:55):
some of it that appealed to the black audience, which
as the benefit of creating more black creator or bringing
about more black creative people. So maybe more black stories
are being told, but the gatekeepers are still the same
who decide which if those black stories get told, and
(42:19):
how much impact are they having of the forty eight
million Black Americans who live in this country.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Here I get a chance to ask Johnson the question
I've wanted to put to him for some time.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Do you, looking back now, do you have any regrets
about selling BET when you did.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
Not at all? Because, as I said earlier, BT commanded
a huge value at the time that some of may
the offer. But the most important reason why I have
no regrets is that when I we are at BT,
I had a partner and a friend who's still a
(43:04):
partner and a friend, and that John Malone, and I
owed it to John when he worked with me for
twenty years. He never sold the share is something people
should have John along never showed the share, stayed on
the board as chairman for about eighteen of the twenty years.
(43:26):
I owed him the highest return on his risk capital
they put into me as in a staff guy for
the cable television industry. I owed him the highest return
he could get for his faith, confidence and capital in me.
So it didn't bother me at all, because that's the
(43:51):
way I looked at BT as a business. I did
look at it as a black hair zoom that should
remain forever black in terms of its ownership. It couldn't,
but not with somebody like me who had this feeling
(44:12):
and belief that a man like said to me, Bob,
whenever you have a great idea, come out see me
and I'll be glad to talk to you. And I
THT did and I went out there and he wrote
the first check for five hundred thousand dollars in and
(44:33):
that's the way I looked at it. But it makes
the same argument without that capital. Without that capital, he
never would have become almost a four billion dollar exit
opportunity for me and John Malone.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcasts
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go to Variety dot com and sign up for the
free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to tune
in next week for another episode of Strictly Business
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My
guest is Detavio Samuels, CEO of Revolt. Samuels and I
unpacked the process of recapitalization and revitalization of the cable
(00:30):
channel launched in twenty thirteen by Sean Combs. Colmes, of course,
is the one time music mogul and lifestyle entrepreneur who
is now in federal custody awaiting trial in New York
on three counts of racketeering and sex trafficking. He's been
accused of heinous crimes. Colmes was key to Revolt's origin story.
(00:51):
The channel was created in a very different time for media,
as Samuels and I discuss, But Colmbs has had very
little involvement in the operation of Revolts for years. He
became fully divested of his stake last year as his
legal problems mounted. Now Revolt is owned by its employees.
That's a rarity for a media company of any size.
(01:12):
Samuels led the complicated process with the focus of helping
Revolt thrive in the company's second decade. Samuels came to
Revolt as chief operating Officer in twenty twenty. He was
promoted to CEO in twenty twenty one. I connected with
Samuels to check in on Revolt after the crisis involving
colms as part of my reporting for the Variety cover
(01:35):
story that published this week on Charlemagne the God. Charlemagne
is a prime example of a new model media mogul
adept at tapping into digital distribution to build audiences across
platforms radio, TV, podcasts, live media merch. I've always been
interested in independence and mavericks who blaze their own trails.
(01:57):
The social media revolution allows for creators to do just that,
but some are able to build more than just engaging
social media feeds. There's been an undeniable surge of creativity
and innovation in next generation media outlets that are squarely
targeting Black audiences. Charlemagne and his podcast networks veteran journalist
(02:19):
Roland Martin and his Blackstar Network, which serves up daily
news and commentary shows via YouTube and other platforms. Martin
shows look like any other cable news roundtable shows, except
for maybe the salty language. There are many more examples.
It's an exciting upsurge of independent media at a time
(02:39):
when a half dozen corporate giants hold more sway than
ever over traditional media. As part of my reporting, I
also reached out to Robert Johnson, the founder and former
owner of Beet Network, for his perspective on how the
landscape has evolved for black targeted media. Johnson had a
lot to say, as you'll hear following this Samuel's interview.
(03:01):
And that's all coming up after this break, and we're
back with the conversation with Revolt CEO de Tavio Samuels.
Datavio Samuels, CEO of Revolt, thank you so much for
joining me today.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Of course, it's a pleasure and an honor to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Let's talk. You know, there's been a lot going on
at Revolt in the last couple of years, as there
has been in all of PayTV. It's not exactly been
a chill time for the business. And you know, you
run it. It's never been easy to run an independent
or smaller media company, and Revolt has really the we'll
talk about the origin story of Revolt, but it has
(03:47):
was really born out of a specific time and place
in television, and that time and place in that dynamic
has changed one hundred and eighty degrees from the time
that it was from the time that was Revolt was born.
So let's let me just start by here we are.
We are in March twenty twenty five, the thirty thousand
foot view. I know we're going to talk about some
changes and some reorganization that you are bringing to Revolt.
(04:11):
Give me your vision for what you know, what Revolt
is in today's media landscape. What does it offer to
an audience that is unique and that is going to
be your you know, your selling proposition to viewers.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, sure, I think that you know what we would
say is right now, Revolt is the number one youth
culture brand. I think this is a space that historically,
you know, may have been owned by people like Red
Bull who did it through kind of adventures, X Games,
who did it through extreme sports. You have people like
Busfeed who kind of did it through buzzy quizzes. Revolt
(04:46):
has been doing that exact same thing reaching today's youth culture,
but through a very much a multiculture and specifically a
black lens, right, and so that's who we are today.
We have on our platform of the biggest creators out
known today, right from Kresha to Drink Champs with Noriega
(05:07):
and Djefn. Right now we got Brandon Marshall x NFL
football player who's helping us build kind of what we
see as a black sports center. And so we partner
with the biggest creators in the game to have the
biggest conversations. That's really what Revolt is right now. The
dream is really to build this kind of multi platform
media implop pire and the way that's never been built
before with the multicultural lens.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
You've seen it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You know, you've got your paramounts, You've got your disneys,
you have all of these things that are great brands.
But historically media has always centered whiteness, the stories of whiteness,
and so what Revolter is trying to do is elevate
black and brown stories. You know, the truth is that
around the world, our white brothers and sisters make up
about ten to fifteen percent of the population, and so.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
The global majority is people of color.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
The truth in the US is, ever since the twenty
ten census, what they've been saying is that non Hispanic
white power relation is shrinking, Black and brown are growing,
and so we see a tremendous opportunity to elevate the
stories of these historically underrepresented groups, knowing that today everybody
is going to come watch and consume. And so what
(06:15):
we would say is that, you know, for Revolts specifically,
the DJ might be black, the music might be black,
but everybody's invited to the party.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Tell me about in terms of in terms of programming,
it's largely unscripted. You have a lot of conversation shows.
How do you how do you o? You talked about
partnering with creators that certainly bring you an audience. How
do you break through with that?
Speaker 5 (06:42):
What?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
What have you found has been the way to get
to just in the sea of content that people have
on their phones, let alone their let alone their media feeds.
How do you break through?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah? I think you just nailed it for us. It
is a massive bet on the creators that we partner with, right.
I think when you look at most media companies, as
a chief content officer who's leading a bunch of teams
to develop programming from whatever that lens is, right, our
lens is not necessarily content first, it's creator first. Who
is that creator? What is their lens and what is
(07:14):
their audience? I get here because you know, probably back
in early twenty let's call it twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen,
I was working at TV one underneath Alfred Liggins and
Kathy Hughes, and I can remember every day waking up
looking at the Nielsen reports, right, Beet two hundred thousand
viewers in prime time, WeTV, Bravo three hundred thousand viewers
(07:35):
at prime time. And then I remember opening my phone,
and this was when Will Smith was kind of just
starting to do his run in social media, and I'm
looking at Will Smith, a million views on him jumping
out of a helicopter in less than twenty four hours, right,
and I'm going, oh my god, this game is shifting.
Creators influencers are actually the new media, and if they
(07:55):
ever learn or realize how to play the game and
the way the networks are playing the game going to
be pretty dangerous for us all. And so since that day,
I've been always working to combine the two. Find the
creators with the biggest audiences with clear point of views
on the world, Let's bring them into our ecosystem. And
then we do what they can't do on their own.
(08:16):
We help amplify their content. We bring our production values
and production quality to the content that they're already exciting
about making, and in some examples, are already making it right.
So if you take examples like Karrisha Please Koresha was
on Instagram with Saucy Santana doing Instagram Lives right, we
took that same show, elevated the production quality of it
(08:37):
and made it a hit. Another example is Fat Joe.
Fat Joe was on Instagram doing his Instagram Live during COVID.
We took that show elevated and now he's launching with
a premium show on Stars.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
That he made quite a name for himself during COVID.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So I one hundred percent believe that there's a lot
of great, amazing content out there that will die on
the vine because it never gets discovered. To ensuring that
we get discovered is dealing with the creators who are
already big voices in the culture, already have big audiences
in the culture, and working with them to create the
content and the stories that we believe can penetrate and
break through the culture.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
You because as you say, everything is that everything is
changing about the game and it used to be. Of course,
it used to be all about exclusivity. The only place
you could see friends was NBC. The only place that
you could see Saturday Night Live was NBC. The only
place you could see in living color was Fox back
in the day. Now you know Revolt content is widely
(09:35):
distributed on YouTube on different platforms. How does that world
change the game? It would seem like that would benefit
you having the big creator names, if there's many ways
to come in and find people to find them.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, a Revolt we say we're pioneering the new era
of entertainment, and for us, that's about three things. One
this first piece, we talked about working with the creators
who shape and move culture to dominating social. You see
a lot of linear networks, a lot of radio platforms
that are really still not focused on playing the game.
(10:09):
And social, we talked about being discovered. If you are
not winning the game at social, you're never going to
be discovered, right, So making sure that you're you know,
resources and focuses on winning and dominating in social. And
then number three is the piece that you're talking about,
which really is a multi platform distributed model. I think
the old model based on exclusivity, and we still have
(10:30):
to do exclusivity because we've got, you know, a linear
business and some great partners who have continued to stand
by us in the cable industry. But barring what we
give them, our kind of viewpoint on the world and
on the landscape as relates to the distribution of content
is the old model was very much a media first,
media centric, Right. We tell you when your magazine show up,
(10:51):
we tell you when this show is going to be air,
and you're going to go up for disappointment in this time.
The new model is based on more of a user
sent trick model.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
We first all discover the content at social and then
wherever we discover it, we go to whatever our favorite
platforms are.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
To consume it.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
If it's podcasts, you go to Spotify, Apple, if it's TV,
you might be going to Netflix, Disney wherever. Right, And
so for us, the big win is to be distributed everywhere.
One of the reasons why you see us do these
talk shows is because it allows us to do it right.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
So I'll use.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Kresha again as an example. When we used to air
when we air an episode of Karsha, you will see
her be top ten trending topic in Twitter, right, dominating social,
You'll see her be top five maybe top yeah, top
five trending and Apple Music podcasts right. And then you'll
see her be top five, top ten trending on YouTube.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That is the idea for us that wherever people want
to consume, however they want to consume based on their
own personal behaviors, that's where our content needs to live.
And so that for us is the future outside and
making sure that we take care of our partners on
the linear side and that they get the exclusive content
that they deserve. As a brand in general, we very
much are a distributed, multi platform viewpoint on the world.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
What I think, I know the answer, But what are
the social platforms that really move the needle for you?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
For sure, our two biggest ones that we focus on
our Instagram and TikTok. Those are the ones that we
see have been incredible in terms of helping the brand.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Go viral quote unquote viral and people show up.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I would say, you know, maybe as a close you know,
three and four for us are probably Facebook and X
But I think also because our audience tends to be
a little bit younger or skew younger. TikTok and Instagram
are the go tos for us. That algorithm on TikTok
is something special. You know, I've never seen a social
media platform that shows your content to so many viewers
(12:48):
and gives you the opportunity to go viral. I'm watching
kids go from zero followers to a million followers overnight,
and so yeah, definitely a very specific or very special
platform and very much alive today.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And they help in. The algorithm is strong enough to like,
if somebody likes one piece of content that comes through Revolt,
they'll likely get served up more Revolt content. That's why
you're smiling like that.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean we've built a TikTok audience.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You know, we've been on Instagram for you know, a
problem with a guess and say almost a decade, right,
two million, you know, a couple of million followers. We
basically have almost the same amount of followers on TikTok
and we launched maybe two years ago.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
What about YouTube? Is that a significant distributor for you?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I would argue that, you know, our two largest video
consumption platforms are going to be YouTube and our linear network. Again,
given the demographic of our audience, YouTube right now is
the number one streaming platform, so many people are not
just watching it on phones, but they're now watching it
on CT.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Those lines crossed just the other day. I'm sure you
saw more people are watching YouTube on television than on
their phones or anything, which is pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Absolutely, which is why we can put the content that
we can put there. And it worked because people are
very much in a lean back, sit back experience. And
so yes, without question, YouTube is a massive, massive focus
for us.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Interesting and in terms of just in terms of pure monetization,
is it you still have a linear business, so you
have some affiliate revenue coming in, But would you say
that just in the world where we know that traditional
linear cable is certainly not growing, I would imagine that
that's putting more pressure on you on the ad side
and brand side.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
No, you're one hundred percent right. So I got to
the business in twenty twenty. Back then, the business was
probably you know, two fifths advertising, three fifths linear side
of the business. And seeing what was happening to the
industry with core cutting and the like, we put a
massive focus on growing and expanding our digital footprint and
(14:58):
then doing that being able to grow and our advertising business,
and so yes, over the last four years, our digital
footprint has drown in quantum leaps, as has our ad business.
Our ad business today, when compared to when I took
over in twenty twenty, is about six times bigger than
it was. And so when you look at our numbers now,
I would say the linear side of the business is
(15:19):
about one fifth of the business and advertising is four
fifths of the business, and a tremendous shift over the
course of the last few years.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's a big that's a big
fundamental business model. I know it will not be a
surprise to you to know that in talking to a
lot of people in advertising and people that are that
are really building impressive black owned media businesses, which I've
covered media long enough to know that we are seeing
against all odds, against the consolidation, against the biggest of
(15:49):
the big, it is undeniable that you are seeing real
pockets of sizable businesses starting to grow, which is incredible,
and it's also utterly can't even believe the stories that
I'm hearing, anecdotal stories of people knocking on the doors
of the big holding companies. Would you say, do you
(16:10):
feel like is Revolt able to play in the general
market waters or is it largely that the advertising that
flows through Revolts is still flowing through smaller, frankly more
narrowly targeted urban budgets.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I would say Revolt has been fortunate and I think
we're unique in this and that we are able to
pull from both. Again, you go back to the way
we position ourselves as the number one youth culture brand.
When you look at our audience, it's very much cross cultural.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
We touch people of.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Every single ethnicity. Today the audience is about sixty six
percent people of color, one third white, So we touch everyone, right.
And then again, you know, our pitch to brands is
we are cross cultural. We touch everybody, but we over
index with those fast growing black and brown populations, right,
So we think we've got an audience that's magic.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
It's hard to reach.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Everybody wants it, and so that allows us to go
after those general market budgets, which is even more critical
now because I think you know, the tremendous growth that
we've seen from black media over the course of the
last few years was largely driven by brands committing the
DEI being focused on and intentional about injecting money and
(17:20):
resources into black owned media.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
I think gone are those days?
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So I'm actually quite nervous and quite worried about what's
going to happen to black media going forward. Feeling much
better about Revolt because again we can pull from both budgets.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from
Revolt CEO to Tavio Samuels. And we're back with more
from Revolt CEO Totavio Samuels, and stay tuned after that
for comments from Beet founder Robert Johnson.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I mean, let's just go there. We are talking the
day after the State of the Union, which was very
hard for this good chunk of America that was very,
very disheartened by what they heard. I realized, we're still,
you know, not even two months in. But what do
you what has what have you felt has been the
impact on the business climate, the overall business climate for Revolt?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It is making the job more difficult. I'll answer at
first from a black media perspective and then a Revote perspective,
because again, I think Revolt is a little bit different
from the rest of the category.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
From a black media.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Perspective, I'm incredibly nervous about what's going to happen. My belief,
my forecast today is that we will lose some black
media outlets over the course of the next few years
as the White House is being very focused on dismantling DEI,
as corporations are cow towing or accepting it and using
(18:55):
it as an excuse to offload black media. I'm very
nervous for the category and what happens to the group.
So that's one from a revolt standpoint, It's actually been
really interesting. So you know, for me, I'm sitting across
from CEO CMOS chief media officers trying to understand whether
they put statements out or not where they sit, and
(19:18):
what has consistently come back to me is, don't necessarily
pay attention to the words, pay attention to the deeds
and the behaviors.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I know that there are a lot of brands, a
lot of advertisers who are making these statements to roll
THEI back, not because they don't believe, because literally they're
just trying to get out of the crosshairs of Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Robbie Starbucks, etc.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Right, And so for many of them, I believe it
is a tactic to take the bullseye off of their chests.
That said, they still many of them still feel very stuck.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
To me, when you.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Have platforms that were rooted in supporting black entrepreneurs or
rooted in supporting black creators and you still want to
move forward with it, but now you got to take
black out the name, and now you want to make
sure that if it's out there in the marketplace, that
again Donald Trump or Robbie Starbucker not coming at you
for it. For me, well, I believe that the money
(20:16):
will still be there for Revolt because we can pull
from from the black side of the budget as well
as the general market side of the budget. I am
feeling right now, brands feeling stuck. They don't have the
platforms to move on. They don't know what stories they're
trying to tell, and it is all rooted in just
fear of persecution from the right and from the White House.
(20:39):
And so for me, the future of Revolt, you know
we're gonna make it. But what I'm trying to do
is make sure that we don't just survive, that we thrive.
And part of thriving is going to be figuring out
how to unstick these brands so that they can have
platforms and initiatives that do the work that they really
want to do, but again without being in the crosshairs
of people from the other side.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Revolt we know was started by Shawn Combs. I think
the world knows that he had stepped away from the
business a long time ago and now formally is completely out.
So I just want to state that. So let's take
it from there in terms of you obviously had a
big transition for the company and then what led to
the decision to make it an employee owned largely employee
(21:24):
owned operation.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah, there are a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
One, from the day I took the job to come
to Revolt, I had a goal or a dream of
trying to make sure that at the minimum, the management
team all had equity. My dream was really for all
employees to have equity. So that's been a dream for
me since twenty twenty two, as you know, to your point,
and thank you for saying it. As Shawn Colms got
the allegations, he immediately stepped down as chairman. The next
(21:51):
piece was him selling his shares in the business. But
that is a process and that takes time. I Cynthia,
the hardest thing I've ever done from a business perspective.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
While the Revolt brand.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Has been is beloved, is appreciated, proof that we're still
alive today, you know, post all of that crisis. The
fact that we're loved is proven by the fact that
we're still alive after going through that crisis. The goal
was to figure out how to stay black owned, right,
and that is a very difficult job because what we
(22:25):
know is that black black businesses in general get like
one percent of private equity money, one percent of venture
capital money, right, so there's not a lot of money
out there for us to pour into our business. You
also just can't take money from anyone because the money
has to come from someone who is a person of color.
And the interesting thing about the wonderful United States of
(22:45):
America is that when you want to count, when you
want to know who the white, richest, richest white people
in America are, you don't know most of them.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
We know many more now.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
The Bezos, the Zuckerberg's, right, so people could probably named
the first seven after past the first seven, nobody knows
who they are, right, But in the black world is
very different because in this country, really the only way
black people have been able to build wealth is through
sports or entertainment. So you can name them all. And
(23:18):
so as you're starting to think about, how do you
know who's going to buy these shares while keeping us
black on, you can Oprah, Kevin hart Lebron Like again,
the list of people is you can name it in
two minutes, right, And so you know, having conversations with
all of those people trying to figure out the right
way to do it, at some point in time it
became abundantly clear that nobody really needed to save us,
(23:43):
that we needed to save ourselves, that we needed to
rely on no one else. I saw this quote the
other day on TV. It said, never rely on your
opposition to keep you safe. Always rely on yourself. And
so I think we seize the moment to rely on
ourselves and to put the power and the equity and
the hands of the employee group. And so you know,
we raised a bit of debt, did essentially what is
(24:06):
some version of a leverage buyout, and how to say
that today our employees are the largest shareholder group on
the cap table. If and when we take this company
and we exit. We will be creating a lot of
wealth for people who historically have been left out of
the wealth creation machine. Right, You're talking about a company
that is fifty percent women, that is seventy percent multicultural,
(24:27):
and so a tremendous opportunity to do something really positive
and shift the algorithm for a lot of families going forward.
So excited about that opportunity, you know, making it happen
for the team a Revolt. Part of it is they
deserved it. This is a team who is given their
blood swat in tears. This is a team who already
has it's an identity brand. These are already people who
(24:49):
love to wear a Revolt on their chest. And so
what we did was match their behaviors up with the
economic opportunity that they now have for Revolts. And so
excited to see where.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
That leads us.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
What's of an operation are you now?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And you're talking about in terms of number of people,
number of employees? Yeah, yeah, So the Vault today has
a little bit over you know, she should think of
us as a business that's typically around one hundred to
one hundred and fifty employee base and then probably around
one hundred. You know what we were maybe maybe people
you consider more like Parma lancers.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, exactly. For production, you go up and down exactly
exactly that. Do you do most of your production in
New York or are you all over the place.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We're a bit all over the place. But where we
have tried to consolidate production and just anything is in Atlanta.
You know, we saw early a.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Lot of talent, obviously hotbed.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
It's a hotbed for talent, it's a hot bed for
hip hop culture. It is definitely becoming like a black
Hollywood in terms of film and television and all of that.
And then when we looked at the data, it's where
a large portion of our audience was. And so today
the business is kind of anchored in New York, LA
and Atlanta. New York's skews atle bit more sales, LA
(25:59):
skews a bit more or corporate, and then Atlanta is
what I would say is anytime you want to touch people, production, marketing, events,
all of those things tend to be kind of concentrated
in Atlanta.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
For those of us who remember covering the Comcast NBC takeover,
that was a long that was almost eighteen months of
regulatory review. The FCC put in a requirement as part
of them taking over NBC Universal, Comcast had to do
some things for the public good. And one of those
things that Comcast had to do in order to buy
(26:29):
NBC Universal way back in twenty eleven, which seems like
horse and buggy days compared to the media landscape that
we're in now, one of the things that they had
to make on Comcast cable system they had to make
ten new channels available and eight of them had to
be owned by had to come from owners of underrepresented backgrounds,
and that really did create a little mini bonanza. And
(26:53):
Shawn Combs at the time was one of those that
put in a proposal and his and it got it
had got greenlit, and you know, even in twenty eleven,
twenty twelve, it's it's it's a shame, it's it's sort
of a shame for the business that it took that
to get another black owned channel on the air. But
so let me so with that preamble, let me ask
(27:15):
you how is your relationship today with Comcasts because they
were sort of the you know, they were the seed
for you.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I'm actually so glad that you asked that question our
relationship with Comcasts has they Since I have been in
the seat, probably since the beginning of Revolt, they have
been phenomenal partners what I can speak to, since I've
been in the seat, they have been incredible partners. When
you look at our linear contracts, they are the longest
linear contracts that we have. You know, we always talk
(27:41):
about when white America catches the cold, Black America catches
the flu, and so when those things happen, you see
our black businesses suffering more.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
You see people giving us.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Shorter leashes and shorter term times on the opportunities that
they give us. Comcasts has never done any of that.
They actually live at the opposite end of that. And
then not only have they been incredible supporters of our
linear business, they have been the customer, one of the
customers that has utilized the Revote ecosystem the most. They
(28:10):
show up on the advertising side, they show up on
the insights and research side that you know, we've got
an incredible agency that does work to drive our media business,
but also can function as a creative agency just helping
brands create you know, creative content on their own that's
not necessarily revolprin they've utilized the whole ecosystem, and so
I have a lot of love and a lot of
affinity for the good folks at comcasts.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
What areas of expansion you mentioned sports? I know you
just brought in a former NFL player, Bill Marshall, has
been on is on your air and seeing him do
some shows. What is your vision for.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
What that could be?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, this year is the year where we're expanding Revote
in terms of a couple of key verticals and capabilities.
From a vertical standpoint, this is going to be the
year where you see us prop up sports and do
it in a really big way. I'm expecting that our
sports vertical will have no less than one hundred hours
of programming hours associated with it. To your point, Brandon
Marshall bringing us at least fifty to sixty of them,
(29:06):
and then we'll probably have another fifty to sixty through
other programs. We've got some really exciting announcements actually coming
out with some overall deals that we just signed that'll
probably come out this month in March. So that's vertical one.
Vertical number two is gaming for us. It's just important
to ensure that brands can reach our audience through their
key passion points. And also you see a lot of
(29:27):
brands betting on sports and gaming, so it's like a
perfect marriage.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
So those if I may, when you say gaming, do
you mean like sports betting or do you mean like
video games?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Video games?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
But sports betting for us goes on that sports vertical,
so don't be surprised if you see.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
That one day as well.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And then from a capability standpoint, the two places we're
really focused on expanding this year is programmatic. Historically, or
since I've been here, no brand has been able to
buy us programmatically. It was really important that they buy us.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Oh wow, that's amazing because that is the life blood
of so much. That says so much. I'm glad you
mentioned that because that says so much about your revenue
stream that that you're only now going into programmatic. Wow,
that's exactly that's exciting.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
It's super exciting.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
And we had to do that because I think a
lot of people under estimate black owned brands, and it
was important that people come through the front door so
they could hear all that we can do to help
grow their business and drive their business. And if you
give it to them programmatically, they never get that education,
they never get informed. And then they could also claim
that they were buying a black owned media company and
(30:32):
spending one thousand dollars a year, right, And so we
wanted to eliminate that. So yes, rolling out programmatic for
the first time this year. And then the next one
is you know, you're always trying to figure out you've
got this audience, how do you connect with them and
monetize them in very different ways short form, YouTube, audio,
live events. One of the pieces that we've been missing
(30:53):
since I've been here is premium content, and so looking
forward to some announcements over the course of the next
month to show the world HOWE Revolt is getting ready
to do premium content in a really big way.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Can I ask you to be a little more specific.
Are you talking about like scripted series kind of things.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Or just a little more high end all of the above,
but definitely definitely building a capability to do scripted in
a big way for the first time. But yes, it'll
also just be higher you know, I wanted you know,
more elevated expensive work deta.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
YO, tell me about your background what led you into business.
I know you worked in the in advertising before you
joined before you joined Revolt.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
So my background is I went to Duke University for
undergrad my second semester senior year, took a marketing course
and fell in love with marketing, and at that point
in time decided that I wanted to go to business school,
and so this was two thousand and two two thousand
and four. I end up going to Stanford Graduate School
(31:57):
of Business. I did my master's in business as well
as my massive education. My dream at that time going
into Stanford was to be a CMO, and so the
first job that I had at the business school was
working at Johnson and Johnson doing global marketing, and I
quickly realized and decided that I maybe didn't want to
be a CMO, largely driven by the fact that at
(32:21):
least my experience inside was that the way it felt
was the advertising agencies were doing all of the fun work,
ida and etc. And that my job on the inside
was to be a good filter to get them from
ten ideas to three ideas. They could then go up
the chain for one to be chosen. And I wanted
to be a part of the people who were developing
the ideation and a strategy whatnot. And so from there
(32:42):
I go work for my first black owned company, Don Coleman,
had an incredible company called Global Hue.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
An Advertising Agents.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Advertising agency exactly. We're the number one multicultural agency in
the nation. Weren't just doing black, we were doing Black, Latin,
X and Asian. We flipped that into doing general market.
I was running the Jeep brand across all ethnicities and
culture general market included in the US. So had a
really phenomenal run there, and then started to get tired
(33:12):
of making advertising commercials because we had just entered into
a world where no one wanted to watch them. Everybody
was ignoring them. People were skipping them, fast forwarding through them,
except when we made them for the Super Bowl. And
so that led me into the world of media. I
wanted to create content that people chose to consume versus
were interrupted with. And so from there I go work
(33:33):
from for Alt the bred Liggins and Kathy Hughes. There
I ran their digital division, I Won Digital, built their
branded content studio that was at TV one as a
TV one exactly, and built their cross platform, ran their
cross platform sales team, and then from there transitioned to
this incredible company.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Called revolts Well.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I took everything that I learned, everything I learned from
Johnson and Johnson and marketing, everything that I learned from
the creative agency side, everything that I learned from being
at Urban one, TV one, I one Digital, and am
now trying to deploy that into this incredible brand that
we have.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Here's the first of two bytes from Robert Johnson. Johnson
is one of the most successful black media entrepreneurs in history.
He launched Black Entertainment Television as the first black owned
cable channel in nineteen eighty. He sold it twenty one
years later to what was then Viacom for three billion. Today,
he runs the RLJ Company's portfolio, which has a range
(34:34):
of interests including stakes and hotels, car dealerships, and these
streaming channels. Here he details the origin story of BET.
Speaker 5 (34:43):
You Gotta Understand that I would at EP, the only
black cable network, black owned cable network simly owned YEP
for twenty years, twenty years before TV one came on
the scene, and the technology platform was cable programming, basic
(35:05):
cable channels what we call linear channels now basic cable channels,
but that's was the way it got hurt. If you
want to be on cable. It was e ep years
and it was the music video world. Gave access to
(35:26):
talented artists who eventually became superstars Michael Dex and Dannis
Decks and Beyonce, all of the recording artists who used
the video to get their fans focused on buying records
and takes and CDs there and at all during that time,
(35:52):
there never emerged a black news network. There were a
TIMPs at it, yeah, but it never gain traction. So
you go back and you start asking yourself why, and
you come down to two three reasons. Two prominent ones
(36:13):
them number one being access to capital, Yes, access to
enough money to get to take advantage of the distribution platforms.
Keep in mind, in black Print, the distribution platform was
(36:34):
subscription and newsstands, and newsstands were aliens, white on venues,
you know, some stores, grocery stores and places where you
can go in and buy. And then of course describers
to people at home. Radio was airways. You can't get
(36:55):
to the airways because the SDC had environments of being
licensed and you didn't have the capital to get line.
You couldn't get on the radio to provide your content
and information. Uh. And then came cable and the distribution
(37:15):
much the same way, you had to have access to
the capital to get to the technology. PET was delivered
be a satellite had to go up in this guide
to a satellite circle in the goat uh in the
geo state. They orbited around the goat and be fed
down to cable systems. Again, you have the other issue
(37:41):
picide capital. It becomes the gatekeepers. With the gatekeepers, they
were cable box. It's fortunately for me one of the
gatekeepers with John Malone who decided to put money and
allow me help me to create PET. So you put
the whole question of where media is going as you
(38:04):
got to look at that where it's been yeah, and
it's been capital flow is access to capital is still critical.
The distribution systems are still pretty much controlled by the
dominant majority of distribution owners white business companies, and the
competitions to generate revenue is the folk that comes had
(38:31):
to go back to capital because people black or white, brown,
they watch content and they want compelling content and for
the most part, compelling content costs money, and in order
to do that, you've got to have the capital. So
in the digital world, it's the digital platform of trying
(38:56):
to build a content attractive out apps for content attract
the streaming platform to appeal to audiences of all rape
trees and colors, and African Americans being one of the
heaviest uses a viewers and uses of content are very
(39:18):
much attracted to the people who want to generate money
off of subscription the streaming service of and or the
advertisers who want to sell products to that audience. So
the answer to the question is how do you define
black media? Is it based on its impact, based on
(39:38):
its ratings? Is it based on its influence in impacting
black lives or impacting white lives? Because a lot of
the civil rights movement gained its audience when National Television
owned you know, white over the CDs and NBC are
(39:59):
covering you know, the beatings, the hangings, and all of
that went on doing the rise of the rights movement.
So to get to where you are today digital one
thing digital has done for the first part is it
has eliminated the gatekeepers to a certain extent, but it
(40:23):
hasn't eliminated to access to capital problem. To become a
streaming platform, to become a digital platform, a YouTube, TV
or all of the other platforms that aggregate content and
(40:43):
put it out there, either on a subscription format or
on a advertiser combination subscription format. Capital still has to
be brought to bear right, And then when you start
looking at the expansion of digital content and distribution, you
(41:06):
do see a rise in content that may appeal directly
to the black consumer market. But that happened with beep.
BD was heavily predominant in showcasing music videos as I
said earlier, and now with expansion of platforms, the large
(41:35):
holders of these subscription platforms, the big dominant people who
now form who are now the gatekeepers, have to make
a decision or happening because they've made a decision that
we need to subscribe a dollar much the way it
cable operating it, and they started putting on programming, compelling programs,
(41:55):
some of it that appealed to the black audience, which
as the benefit of creating more black creator or bringing
about more black creative people. So maybe more black stories
are being told, but the gatekeepers are still the same
who decide which if those black stories get told, and
(42:19):
how much impact are they having of the forty eight
million Black Americans who live in this country.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Here I get a chance to ask Johnson the question
I've wanted to put to him for some time.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Do you, looking back now, do you have any regrets
about selling BET when you did.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
Not at all? Because, as I said earlier, BT commanded
a huge value at the time that some of may
the offer. But the most important reason why I have
no regrets is that when I we are at BT,
I had a partner and a friend who's still a
(43:04):
partner and a friend, and that John Malone, and I
owed it to John when he worked with me for
twenty years. He never sold the share is something people
should have John along never showed the share, stayed on
the board as chairman for about eighteen of the twenty years.
(43:26):
I owed him the highest return on his risk capital
they put into me as in a staff guy for
the cable television industry. I owed him the highest return
he could get for his faith, confidence and capital in me.
So it didn't bother me at all, because that's the
(43:51):
way I looked at BT as a business. I did
look at it as a black hair zoom that should
remain forever black in terms of its ownership. It couldn't,
but not with somebody like me who had this feeling
(44:12):
and belief that a man like said to me, Bob,
whenever you have a great idea, come out see me
and I'll be glad to talk to you. And I
THT did and I went out there and he wrote
the first check for five hundred thousand dollars in and
(44:33):
that's the way I looked at it. But it makes
the same argument without that capital. Without that capital, he
never would have become almost a four billion dollar exit
opportunity for me and John Malone.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 6 (44:55):
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