Inside the Industry with Rob Weiss: The Realities of Filmmaking

In this episode, Brock and Will sit down with legendary film Producer, Writer, Actor, and Director Rob Weiss and Lorenzo Antonucci. Rob is a filmmaker best known for his work on hit shows like Entourage, How to Make it in America, and Ballers, among others. Together with Lorenzo, they take listeners on a journey through the entertainment industry, sharing their experiences, insights, and advice for those looking to make it in Hollywood.

The conversation delves into the early days of their careers, the challenges they faced, and the moments that shaped their paths. With humor and candor, Rob and Lorenzo discuss the ups and downs of the industry, providing a behind-the-scenes look at the creative process. To top it off, they recount the infamous bar fight story from Mammoth involving Brock, Rob, and Lorenzo, adding a touch of excitement and camaraderie to the mix. Tune in for an engaging and entertaining episode filled with stories from Hollywood and beyond.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to Studio twenty two.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Thanks for coming on boys, Thanks having thanks for having
my second time.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Oh you've been on this pod before. Yeah, I didn't
know that.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Yeah, and shot like a comic book.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Oh so you're like, you're like a reoccurring guest.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I don't have we had anyone else come on twice yet.
I don't even think we have yet, only reshoots.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
Yeah yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Hell yeah, seriously that h yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:33):
I mean, I hope you guys aren't going to make
me talk about comic books only if you want to. No,
I mean I'd be lost in that combo. I never
I think I seen like one Marvel movie, only one
Marvel Yeah, I think that like my kid or something.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Aquaman.

Speaker 5 (00:49):
I never saw any of the Aquaman. I figured no,
but I got the Aquaman in my house. I have
that the mannequin Aquaman.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
See that it was Aquaman.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
It wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
It wasn't my idea.

Speaker 5 (01:03):
I think it was Michael Benson or something like Abrams
Bence and who were writers on the show. And Mike
was kind of like the comic book guy or a
superhero kind of guy.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I think it was. I mean, I could be wrong.

Speaker 6 (01:15):
I mean could you have predicted how accurate like that
would become in culture?

Speaker 5 (01:21):
And yeah, I think so because I think even like
the contributions I had for the fake movies would be
like like I remember seeing a book about smoke jumpers
and being like, yo, that'd be such a cool movie
to make, But nobody's gonna let me make that movie.
So you know, let's just put it in the show
that does smoke jumpers. Like these are the things you

(01:42):
go there are obvious good ideas, right, like Ferrari Aquaman,
But you.

Speaker 6 (01:48):
Know you got like Chicago Fire and so many shows
and films.

Speaker 7 (01:52):
Yeah of course, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
Maybe right, but those but you go with's fucking Pablo
Escobar man, like who Like, I.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Mean, they're good, they're good guesses, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (02:04):
Like, I don't you know, but I think that show
was always kind of like, you know, the reason it
was eitgeist because it existed in that you know, that
ether of reality and a little bit of you know, exaggeration, hyperbole.
But but but you know, like a surreality you know,

(02:28):
I don't know, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Absolutely, that's the thing I miss most.

Speaker 5 (02:32):
Right now, we're talking about this new show it's you
missed the the give and take.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Right.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
You create something, you put it out and you wait
to see how it's received, right, And fortunately with quick
response things on social like Twitter and the live tweeting.
Like I remembered in Ballders, the episode where Cassantique gets
shot that that I shot that I direct. I was like,

(03:00):
I can't wait to see people trip out because it's
not what you think would happen. Yeah, in Ballers, and
I'm just like kind of watching Twitter and it end
and people are like, oh no, you didn't that fucked up.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
You killed my.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Guy, you know what I mean. And you're like, it's
so cool the give and take so and I think that.

Speaker 5 (03:16):
So many even musicians that I know, and you said,
you guys are working on a doc something set music
as well, so it's.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Like, you know, I know.

Speaker 5 (03:27):
Having sat with his boy Rich Barner's friend Chad from
Nickelback and I was at the show with them, and
Chad was talking about afterwards about I don't I don't
know if it was really expectation, but how he likes
the audience to engage in the show, right, And I said, Tom,

(03:48):
I'm like, yeah, man, but it was fucking packed. The
place is packed, Not that he was complaining, but I'm
like the other packed house, right, it's automatically a win.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
Right.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
He's like, I don't need the fucking money, man. He's like,
that's so much catalog. He's like, I'm out here doing
this for the energy exchange and that vibe and and
I kind of feel like, you know, creatively, it's the
same way I feel about it.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
But I do need the money.

Speaker 8 (04:10):
When you got the crowd, when the crowd sucks, it's
a shitty vibe.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Right.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
He had a great He had a great crowd at
his show. That crowd was fun as well.

Speaker 8 (04:18):
You have a great crowd that's receptive and the yeah,
they're going nuts.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's the best feeling in the world.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, So my days was with the crowd sucked.

Speaker 8 (04:29):
If you open it up with somebody, they knew nothing
about you, especially in Germany, they're like, oh, yeah, what
is this ship? What is this ship? And they turned
that back on you. You gotta we want to fight everybody.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
They don't know you.

Speaker 8 (04:43):
But then when you break it, they're like going crazy
and they love you.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
They want you to do everything.

Speaker 6 (04:48):
It's just a wild give and take and I think
from both perspectives, like music, TV, film, it's really cool
to hear that, like the people making it are doing it,
you know, for the reactions, for the I'm sure and
all that, and like, you know, a little bit more
than the Paycheck's nice obviously, but like a little bit
more than that.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Well, I don't know how to do anything else.

Speaker 5 (05:08):
So I've been forced to, like, you know, ride with
all the ebbs and flows in my career because I
don't have a lot of options.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Was there ever anything that you wanted to pursue or
is it just like, no, I'm doing fucking TV and
film forever.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
No, man, I've been doing this since i'mer kid man.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
I shot you know, I think I rote amongst Friends,
shot at like twenty three, twenty four, came out like
I was a Sun Dance twenty.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Five, and that been in the business since.

Speaker 5 (05:34):
But you know, a large portion of my three decades
in this business has you know, been spent suffering.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
You know, I don't know if like it's christ like you.

Speaker 5 (05:44):
Know levels of suffering, but you know, in terms of
Hollywood standards, yeah, yeah, oh it's it. But when I
say that, obviously I'm exaggerating, but it's you know, frustration, uncertainty, insecurity.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Your confidence gets fucking knocked down.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
Stress levels are high, you know, your cortisols out of whack.
It's a lot of nose, a lot of nose, a
lot of grinding.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
To hear nos.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
So but with that said, now, I have never really
considered doing anything else. Ever, I've done things supplementally, meaning
like or in addition, like I had a cigar brand
with David Off for several years.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
We always talk about rebooting that.

Speaker 5 (06:34):
Like, I have interests outside of you know, outside of
film and television shit, because painting.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I love art.

Speaker 5 (06:40):
There's a lot of different communities I like to and
some cultures I like personally jump in and out of.
And if I could, you know, suck a buck out
of one of them, that'd be pretty dope. And so far,
so far, it hasn't really happened. So you know, my
clinging to that, you know, with hope, But no, this

(07:01):
this is what I do for better or worse. Whether
people hate my ship, let me make ship.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
It is what it is.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, I would say that too. With even with that
kind I know, you know, Lorenzo, you did you did
a little acting too. But when you'd make something and
your friends are hitting you up and people are saying,
you see how people see this, dude, You're like, this
is fun, dude, all that time, and how exault that
I was making everything, It's like it makes it worth it,
even if it's just from a couple of friends and family.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
You know, it's a good vibe. Man, It's a good
dopamine fixed for yourself. And you know those milestones are
the achievements. And I always tell everybody's young and you
get on a good run, man, really embrace it and
enjoy and everything in life, you know, no matter what
you're doing, because you know, good runes don't like, they
don't last forever. I remember this fucking guy is this director.

(07:49):
He's an old school guy. It's really funny. Man, When
whenever I talk about the run's like like that, I
flash this guy. His name is Charles Shire, and he
used to be married to Nancy and they made all
these big movies when I was a kid, you know,
like Drew Barrymore Woman when she divorced the parents and
Nancy Myers went on and made like huge movies and

(08:11):
Charles made like a bunch of cool shit himself.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
But we became friendly through this.

Speaker 5 (08:15):
Woman calling camp and I mean, this is going back
a while.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's gotta be a decade ago.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
And Charles's an interesting cat man, but he's sure I
have this Bronco and he knew I also had like
a range Rover. And he looked at me and this
guy by the way, this guy's living in like a Beverly.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Hills mansion, right, and he looks at me.

Speaker 5 (08:38):
He's like, you have two cars and I go, well, yeah,
you know, and he goes, it's like, what are you doing.
He's like, he goes, this doesn't last forever. This doesn't
And that guy just scared this shit out of me.
And anytime something starts to go downhill for me, I
go that fucking guy was right, that motherfucker man, like

(09:00):
you just put that ship in my head.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
But you know, I'm sure he's still living in his mansion.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
But he was.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
He was running Hollywood, and yeah, I'm sure he does.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Probably got chariot.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
When you come into this, Yeah, right, it's mad as
I'm going through every hills on the chariot and be hilarious.
But no, man, when I first came in the industry
and I mean, it took a while to get in
for me, A couple of took years, you know. But
when I did, it was like one thing after another
after another, you know, doing things on social media. I
was doing a movie, I was doing TV show, and
it was the best feeling in the world, and it

(09:31):
did feel like it was just gonna keep going. And
then when it slowed down or it stopped, I was like, Yo,
this sucks. And you watch your manic account start to
go down a little bit and you're like, what scores
the next job?

Speaker 4 (09:42):
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Like that lack of consistency for me is something that
now that I'm you know, in my thirties, which is
you know, still young, but I just I had to
make I have to make a shift, you know, for me. Uh,
but there is that like there's no better thing, I think,
like there's no job.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
You know.

Speaker 5 (10:01):
I don't envy you guys, like the young guys, you
know what I mean. I mean, I envy like your
skin elasticity, but outside.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Outside of that, outside of that, like I don't.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
Envy like being thirty in the way with the way
that the world is now, you know what I mean.
Like when I was that age, nobody made fucking movies
in their twenties.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Like when I came up made a movie like.

Speaker 5 (10:27):
I was a superstar at that time for having just
done it. You know, it was like nobody could do it.
Now everybody does everything, or they claim to do everything,
and it means exactly. It means nothing, man, you know,
nothing means nothing. You know, I mean it means something
when you're the very best at it. But I feel

(10:47):
like the weight of you know, the gravity of some
of these things has been so diluted.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (10:54):
I was at the impact last too. You were talking about,
you know, making a film at twenty four to twenty five.
I'm like, how how did you put that together? Because
that is really impressive.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, it's actually it's on Amazon Prime.

Speaker 5 (11:04):
I didn't even know that till some some woman says,
you want to watch it, and I was like, oh,
it's hard to find. It's called The Monks Friends, and
it was like a big sun Dance movie in the
early nineties.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
I was when the og like.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
You shot it with film? Yeah, it's a different animal
to Yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
I would still I would still shoot off the camera.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
They don't even make the cameras anymore.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
What are you talking about.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
So No, this woman was like, oh, I watched a
movie last night.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
I'm like, oh, how did you find it, like with
like an old VHS stape or something, and she's like, no,
it's on Amazon Prime and I'm like it is And
then I realized MGM owned it and.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
They sold the library.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
Right, So I'm like sitting in my room and I'm
going to watch I'm like, let's put on my movie, right,
and I put it on them. I think I had
like freshly bathed from my bathtub. I'm like a fluffy
robe and I put it on, and you know, all
of a sudden, like this bomb the guys like it's
the sound of a guy smoking out of a bong
and it says a Rob Weiss film, and my voice

(12:06):
comes up and I immediately go it like I start
to have like a panic attack, like I don't even
know why, like I should have enjoyed this nice nostalgic
moment and instead of like in slow motion with the
remote light the matrix, like like try and turn this
thing off. But it was it was a wild experience.
The whole thing was just you know, for you know,

(12:31):
lack of better terminology, It's like a cosmic thing where
you go.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
There's no reason why I should have been able.

Speaker 5 (12:37):
To write that movie, much less direct it, make it,
get it, finance, get it in some dance, get it
in theaters.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
And build a life for myself other than.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
You know, the universe conspiring to get me out of
that place I was in my life in Long Island
at that time, and now to the West Coast, and
then my whole family followed. So basically it created this
migration for all my relatives to move out to California
and start the next generation in the Weiss family as

(13:11):
La people California people. So and that didn't even dawn
on me for like a couple of decades, you know.
But even the Doug Allens of the world and all
those guys, they were all around for amongst friends, and
you know, I think it was whether or not people
actually worked on it.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Doug was there for casting sessions.

Speaker 5 (13:30):
He you know, he used my office I had an
officer Universal after the release he used it to cast
his AFI stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
But you know, being around it was inspiring.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
To all of us to see one of us having
made something because so many of the people we grew
up with said they were going to make things and
nobody was making shit.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
So it actually helped.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
It was you know, like they say, a rising tide
raises all boats. It it actually helped the whole crew
of us, I think some degree. But how it really
got done, I don't know. I mean this this funny story.
He's like a bard money. My dad was like in
the Vegas business. He convinced all these like wise guys
and gamblers like bet oh my kid and guys.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Just twenty five hundred for you, you know, hey, what
would you.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Then?

Speaker 5 (14:20):
I mean I made that movie, like I only started
with like sixty thousand dollars, and I shot some of
the best shit up front. And it was like it
was during the Niazi strike in New York, so I
was paying some cats cash to like.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Push DOLLI shit like that.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (14:39):
I had an amazing cinematographer who's like become a huge cinematographer,
you know, and for the last thirty years.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Like it's but.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
It was his first thing, and he really kind of
you know, I'd.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
Been bounced out of film school at Parsons New School,
so this guy kind of was like my de facto
film studies program working with him and learning from him,
and but there was there was something I was about
to say about that was this specific thing said.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Oh, the budget, the budget.

Speaker 5 (15:08):
So I started with sixty and we had shot some
really great, you know, the most impactful stuff. And then
the two producers I had, who were young guys. One
was like a Wharton grad, one was a Yell grad.
But they'd never worked on anything. But their resume was
enough of me because they had gone to Wharton and Yale,
and I was like a fucking moron who never really
gone to school. So I empowered them and they ran

(15:31):
around the IFC in New York. There was like this
big market week and they got people to come see
Daly's and this guy John Pearson, who was a really
celebrated you know, what is it with you guys producer
rep came and sort and he had just gotten five
million dollars from Island to put in half a million

(15:51):
and up to like ten movies, and he just fully
funded the rest of my movie, and we shot the
rest of it. Sun Danced, Douville, Edinburgh, like we went
to like major festivals, were invited to CON. But I
think cont the thing with CON was that I don't
know if I think I think it was gonna be
outside of a competition in a certain regard or whatever

(16:14):
that category is, because we'd already permitted some dance and
there was some weird politicking.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
But yeah, it was hot, man, it was fun. You know.

Speaker 7 (16:23):
So you shot you are?

Speaker 6 (16:25):
You started shooting with only sixty grand of the budget,
and then it actually ended up getting the rest.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
I started like literally like forty grand, and I remember
like having a full crew and no money to shoot
because we had no film. And then my buddy Mike Rapp,
who's like a stockbroker in New York, not rap Report
the actor, he was like, hey.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Bro, didn't you ask me to borrow money for the movie?
And I was like yeah, you got it. He's like yeah,
just let me right now, give you like five ten grand.
And I was like fuck, yeah, we got film, let's go.
And then like yeah. But it was crazy because it
was a real crew.

Speaker 5 (16:58):
But everybody really like came together for it.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
That's what was special about it.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
You know.

Speaker 5 (17:05):
It wasn't like me, it was everybody, even like the caterers.
This I remember it was like this this couple. I
think it was like Norbn Marie or Norman Marie and
they were like Brits because they don't make the Shepherd
pised up, but they had their truck and like they
needed to get paid. But like if we're not money,
they were still cooking. Like people were just committed to

(17:26):
it because it was special. It wasn't you didn't drive
around and see people making a movie, you know.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah, and this.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
Nineteen ninety one, like it was not like people kids
were out there making a movie. The person who inspired
me to make the movie most was a young filmmaker
named Maddy Rich who'd made a movie in the New
York called Straight Out of Brooklyn, and he had had
it funded with by his church group, and it was like,
I think it was like, you know, it was this
small indie movie, but it was a feat that he

(17:56):
made it. And then at the same time, John Singleton
was making Boys the Hood, which was, you know, really
deeply personalized to.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
John's experience, you know.

Speaker 5 (18:07):
And I remember going to see that while I was
shooting amongst friends and being like, oh shit, all right,
this was my you know, my simpitop was like.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
We're gonna kick their asses. Is gonna be great?

Speaker 5 (18:16):
Better this and that, And I became friendly with John
when I got out, and I remember him introducing me
to Tyra Banks like as my movies it is. He's
like yotas Robbie's a new generation filmmaker just like me.
And I remember that's like probably one of those moments.
Well I felt like, fuck, I did something, you know
what I mean, because I had such a respect for John,
you know, having done what he did.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, man, it was was wild man. And you remember
there's no social media.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
Yeah, there's no connection to anything that's basically not five
feet in front of your face.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (18:48):
I like just highlighting that for the audience of like,
you know, putting, you know, writing the script, getting out there, Yeah,
going and doing it and making it happen.

Speaker 7 (18:56):
I think that's important for people to hear this.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
It's just a small little world, man.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
And it was just fucking final draft. What are you
doing right now?

Speaker 5 (19:02):
I voted I So my stepmom had gotten me a
word processor and I didn't know how to use the screen,
so I just literally used it like a typewriter and
I had white out and I would fix it. That's
how fucking that's how analogue this fucking experience was. You know,

(19:24):
I was a kid man, I think I was twenty
two twenty three. I started writing. It was like I
you know, I was like, oh, I'm going to make
a short film. And I just kept going, and I'm like, oh,
this is already thirty five pages. Oh I'm already like
fifty pages. Holy shit, I got like one hundred and
forty pages. I mean it was so fat and epic.
It just kept going, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, And it was like twelve days.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
That was it.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Twelve days to write it.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah. I think every.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
Desperation has always been like a great motivator for me. Man,
Like you know, I work best when there's a gun
to my head, or I just where I in the
maryor and I just fucking hate myself, you know what
I mean, Like where I'm so full of self loathing
that I'm like, I've got to do something, you know.
At that time in my life, I was like I think,

(20:11):
you know, like I said, I was, I was early twenties.
My friends were all graduating like colleges, you know, they're
all and like, you know, I come from like an
affluent Ish area in Long Island, at least at that
time I was in that.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
My first area.

Speaker 5 (20:25):
I grew up in Baldwin was a little more working class,
but the Five Towns was a little more affluent. And
these kids, all my friends like went away to college. Man,
They're like, be you, they're Maryland, They're an American, Like,
you know, fucking you didn't party schools, nah, man, because
I was like a fuck up.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
My dad's like, my dad put me through private school.
I got out of private school with like a d mitas.
He's like, I'm a pinon to fucking go to like
fucking Arizona or something like get real, man.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
I degenerate, yes, but I was. I was a pretty
big fuck up man. So, but but he was supportive
of me going to an art school because I had talent.
I could draw a little bit, paint a little bit,
and I could be watched, I could be overseen because
it was in Manhattan. So I wound up going to Parsons,
and you know, I dropped out to be a club promoter.

(21:13):
And then I started having meltdowns, like mentally, I mean,
I panic attacks, and then I went back to school
to get my shit together, and then I got thrown
out of school. And then when my friends are getting
out of college, you know, and they're like moving into
the city. They're going to work at Goldman Sacks. They
got these jobs, and I think I was like, probably

(21:34):
it's that moment. There's only the first time in life
where you look at yourself in a minute and you go,
holy fuck, I'm a loser. Like and that was probably
it for me. No, this is no, I don't believe.
It's like, really, I gotta believe that every man.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 5 (21:51):
Who you are, but I do believe that at some
point in every man's life, multiple points, you have doubt
and you you despise what's looking back at you in
the mirror. Yeah, and I felt like a fucking loser,
and that that's why I sat down and wrote that movie.

Speaker 9 (22:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
I was like, I'm not going out like this.

Speaker 5 (22:12):
And then I went from the ultimate fucking like underachiever
to the meteoric overachiever with a three picture deal with Universal.
By time I'm like twenty five, twenty six, right, and
all the kids I grew up with to like seeing
me when I go home, like, hey, do you remember me?
And I'm like, what are you fucking stupid? I went
to high school, which of five years ago. Yeah, I

(22:32):
remember the event parcle Manrob.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Why don't you tell them about the movies you passed on?

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Oh at that period, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (22:42):
I don't like to think about the no like I
got so so I got really successful. Then I got
really scared because I felt like I did have a
good foundation and if I didn't write it, I couldn't
direct it.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
I couldn't understand what they wanted.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
So I passed all the good Will Hunting like oh wow,
like all these other fucking movies for like years.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
But it's always crazy hearing that man that's like, ah,
you just Matt Danas. Didn't he pass on Avatar? And
then he had like an equity deal or something like
that where he would have made like three four or
five hundred million dollars or something like that.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Probably. I mean, it's all crazy. We all we all do. Listen.

Speaker 5 (23:20):
First off, I was in no I was in no
mindset to make that movie. Back then, I was being
pulled in so many different directions. Like I said, like
I really come from like never having done anything to
magining to pull off this little movie that created some
waves within the business. I mean, it didn't make much
money in the box office, but it had its fans,
and I still hear from people. But when people give

(23:42):
me shit over good Wile Hunting, I go, you understand,
if I make Goodle Hunting, they're very well may not
be a Ben Affleck and Matt Damon right now.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
So like that's the real reality is.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
I could have tanked that entire fucking film if it
went that way, maybe I would have made something cool.
But the truth is I I I remember reading the
script not really understanding what they were trying to do
because like the first time pages weren't a bar or something.
It must have been an early draft and they had
incredible people work with them on that. So you know,
it's a team man, every other team effort, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, do you think I mean, I feel like there's
so much content out there right now. Do you feel
like somebody today, maybe it does still happen, but can
make a film like that like you made and go
to a sun dance and get notoriety or you know,
kind of I do.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
I think the businesses have changed so much though that
it doesn't matter. Like it's like I don't really and
it could just be because I don't get invited to
a lot of places. But I don't feel I don't
feel the sense of community in the entertainment business the
way I used to feel this was like a business

(24:48):
that people would crack into, right, because I feel like
for film, anybody can make a movie, Like all you
need is money, right, moneybacks offers, offers of what gets
you to talent that gets you deals far and distribute
you know, right, you could like money generates that your
your two challenges, right or getting it released by somebody

(25:11):
that's reputable and putting on a platform and getting eyeballs
on it, right and the obvious making something good right
that that you know deserves that stuff. Right, So that's
the only challenge right. TV is a series of about
seven thousand challenges, you know what I mean to making

(25:32):
a TV show. And that feels like the community expanded
because now it's you know, it's being driven by tech, right,
the you know, the stream has changed the game. You
it's Netflix, it's Amazon, it's Apple. They have the deepest pockets.
But do I think you can still go make a
really cool INDI that gets eyeballs, it gets people excited

(25:54):
about a fresh young voice one hundred you know, but
because there's so much content out there, I don't know
how many people see it, like, but a twenty four
eight twenty four is a per example, perfect example of
a company that makes very niche content and they get
it out there.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Man. You know, you know things that you would not
think that, like, I gotta go mainstream, you know.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Twenty four is such a real deal studio.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah, they're making great stuff.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
How do you make a movie from with two hundred
grand and make an impact like that? Terrified? Fucking what
was that?

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Ye clown clown movie?

Speaker 8 (26:38):
This guy made to two hundred thousand Jersey dudes made
like thirteen fourteen million in a box of if it
was twenty million.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Well, it was a horror movie about one of.

Speaker 7 (26:46):
The one of the gnarliest horror films.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Really, I gotta I gotta get it.

Speaker 5 (26:50):
I gotta put a I do you little these little
punishment games with my son where we tie him up
and put on harm out.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
He was saying, my son, my son one walked through
the house alone because he saw like some of it.
Oh yeah, so if he was scared of that kid,
if he's.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Scared, I yo.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
I watched it when I was like five, and I
remember I went to bed after it was in the
middle of the night, and I had to have a
cold cousin that's basically like an uncle.

Speaker 4 (27:17):
He was, yeah, twenty years older. Fucking goes outside.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, I'm like almost a mask, yeah, and just screams
outside the wind.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
Just messed me up for a couple of years.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
But my kids, my kids at showed him something.

Speaker 5 (27:33):
I don't remember what the hell the name was, but
the girl's head popped off and he has never.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Been alone since. And then he he won't like, I'll
go in.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
The bathroom all say toilets down, I'll pick up the
lid and there's like a fucking giant deuce in there,
And what that was wrong with you?

Speaker 1 (27:48):
He's like, oh, I forgot the flush. I go, no,
you didn't flush.

Speaker 5 (27:52):
Intentionally because you're worried the fucking clown's gonna come out
of the drain.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
He's like, what do you want me to tell you that?

Speaker 5 (27:58):
Like he's comes from Yeah, he thinks he lives in
the suic lives. I can't get get the flush of
fucking toilet. You know, he's horrified, ship won't see blown
in his own bed. But he walks around like he's
a g Also, that's what's so.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Funny about this? K looks all he's tough?

Speaker 3 (28:13):
What what's up?

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Man? What's I love that he's only eight? Just for
clarities to.

Speaker 5 (28:19):
Be sick if I go, oh, yeah, he's twenty seven
years old.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (28:24):
I think we watched like the Exorcist on a sleepover
with a couple of friends when we were younger, too,
and that was just like.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, I love I don't I don't watch horror films, man, Oh,
I love him.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
I don't watch too many.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
No, I can't, man, I can't do it.

Speaker 5 (28:39):
Like I I fucking some girl got me high and
like maybe watch Midsummer with her?

Speaker 1 (28:44):
And I mean I was fucking was gonna throw up, man, Like.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
The crazy what the fuck was that movie was crazy?
Fifty million?

Speaker 4 (28:54):
It was Joe.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
That movie was fucking twisted, like it was.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
A twist movie made in the daytime.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, and it was still like nauseating something about it
so creepy. Yeah, Like I remember I.

Speaker 5 (29:06):
Put up the poster for it on an Instagram story
next day, I'm like, anybody else see this thing?

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Get like feel like a little trauma from it?

Speaker 5 (29:14):
And I think it was the most responses I'd ever
gotten to a story somebody told me they threw up
like thirty minutes into the movie.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
People like, yo, that fucked me up.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
So like, and then a differicult on friends who tried
to get me to watch his first film, Hereditary. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, And then I'm like, like the ending they got,
I didn't get to the ending. So I'm watching it.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
They're at the party, the sisters having like the allergy attack, right,
and I was like, and I'm like watching it and
they start to leave and I'm like, yo, is this
girl gonna die?

Speaker 1 (29:48):
And she's like, do you want me to tell you?
I'm like, is the girl gonna die? Well? And I'm like,
I'm not watching this shit, So I turned it off.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
I guess her head explodes also like a telephone bowler.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
I didn't watch it.

Speaker 5 (30:01):
So then she goes but put on the What's Woman
justin Long where he lives in the basement of a
house like that. Everybody was crazy about that. The Barbarian
Barbarians or something, Yeah, barbarian. So then we watched a
half hour of Barbarians and it starts to get a
little creepy, and I go, I'm out, man, I'm.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Fucking out, And I turned out. I can't do this shit, man,
it's not my genre.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
I mean I grew up with so many of them
that like, as I got older, none of them affected me.
And it wasn't until I was like, I don't know,
twenty eight twenty nine, I was with this chick I
was dating, watching at my place and we put on
the Conjuring Yeah, and I was like, I think I'm
sleeping on the couch to night because I don't want
to walk over to the damn room, right, Yeah, yeah,
really scary.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
That was the only one that got me.

Speaker 6 (30:42):
Yeah, the original OMEN. Man, fuck that, It's all for you.
Damn that Omen is the most scariest shit ever.

Speaker 8 (30:50):
Effect VHS popped out at the ending of the movie,
just popped out of the fucking When I was sitting
with my ex wife just watching it, it popped out
in front of us, and we were just like, I'm
not putting that back here.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
That actually when you're watching it.

Speaker 6 (31:06):
Watching it was when the demons were sucking all over,
it was like it just popped out.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
That ship fucking Exorcist.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
What was that one? Any of what aldit?

Speaker 6 (31:20):
Arry? I felt like the whole movie was awesome. And
then the ending turned into like what Midsummer is? Yeah,
like the cult it was just weird, like and I'm.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Like, what is this ship?

Speaker 4 (31:32):
Was that his intention? Same director, right, so was he?

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (31:34):
Maybe it was like a little cliffhanger to what the
mids that that culting thing would turn into.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
I don't know, I just out a connection.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Makes its creepy.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
Man. The beginning of the fucking Midsummer with the with
the sister being like I'm going, I'm leaving, I'm taking
mom and dad with me, and they all got.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Like fucking tube stuck in. What about over the.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Church?

Speaker 5 (31:58):
What the was that all of the old bash and
the old people's heads in with the giant mallets and
it's like I don't know, I'm I like really scared
of the ship. I'm I'm nauseated by I can't explain,
Like like I get sucked into a movie and I'm
just sitting there and I'm like this and they're fucking
manipulating me with a bunch of fucking light and sound

(32:21):
and music and they're pulling me in further.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
For just so they could go.

Speaker 4 (32:25):
Ah, like.

Speaker 5 (32:27):
I just don't need the experience, man, I don't need
I got enough problems, you know.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
You know what's pretty freaky too is the first nun Oh.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, Sally Field, not the Flying None.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
No, like the fucking spin off to the Conjure.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Oh there was a spin off, yeah, I think what
was the one with the Australian dudes made? Is that
what it was called where they had the hand where
they like and it it channeled a demon into the ball.

Speaker 7 (33:00):
Oh that's that's a newer one.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah. Yo, that movie was dark, dude.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
That movie was this dude takes over the little like
brother or whatever, and then just it goes too far.
Guy starts smashing his head in the wall, like to
the point where it looked like he was obliterated by
a gang of twenty dudes or something.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
It was just like insane.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
So I just watched one called When Evil Lurks, one
of the scariest films I've ever seen, where it's basically
a cross between like The Omen The Exorcist, a lot
of possession, a lot of death, a lot of like brutality.

Speaker 7 (33:34):
It's nart.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
That's the funny thing too. Like I'm a big dude,
I don't really get scared of anything. And then when
you dive into that realm. It's like if that's a
little there's some truth in that. I'm a little it
makes me a little. Nothing I can do about that.

Speaker 5 (33:45):
Just it all praise on your subconscious, you know what
I mean. It's different, like bro, like this, I mean,
I'm not scared to walk around fucking la you.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'm not like walking around like like oh like that,
you know what i mean.

Speaker 5 (33:59):
But you put on my fucking movies that I'm in
the security and sanctity of my own home behind gates
and locked doors, and I'm still like, you know, it's
just it's just a mind fuck like that's but that's
a skill set, you know, Like.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
I wouldn't know how to make one of those.

Speaker 7 (34:16):
Movies the lights on if I watch a horror film
like that night I have to talk to me? Is
the name of the Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
We were Like it was in my house, like I
was like a month ago.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
It was storming outside pretty bad, and my son's with me,
and my kid crashes in my room. Like you know,
for a while he was good and he'd sleep in
his room. But like clockwork at two thirty three am, Dad,
and I'm like, yeah, I'm scared, and I'd be like,
all right, man, come on in, and then you know,
there's like a pause where he's probably gauging the escape route,

(34:51):
and then the pattern of little feet running.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
And diving into my bed.

Speaker 5 (34:55):
So it just got back to the point where we
regressed and on my bro it's cool, just crash out
my bed.

Speaker 8 (35:01):
I fucking did experience some weird ship in my very
houseroom where I was, you know, pretty much raised in
after watching Horror, or whether it was a week after,
whatever it was, it was. I was in bed and
my ex wife, Jasmine was she was away, she was

(35:24):
in Jersey, or she was with her in the Bronx,
her mom.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
She was not home.

Speaker 8 (35:30):
Some woman is standing in front of my fucking door
in my bedroom taking off her boots and had long.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Black hair, taking off a But I'm just like yo.
It was dark, so it was just a silhouette. But
I never forget this, and I was like.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
What happened, What happened? Next happened? Where to go?

Speaker 3 (35:50):
It didn't go nowhere?

Speaker 1 (35:51):
No play.

Speaker 5 (35:53):
That ship was scary, No, my kid got tripped out
that that night wasn't like Horror.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
It was like more like.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
You know it was more like.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
Training day, right, So it's raining outside and like I
can't remember if lights were flickering, but something happening, and
it sounded like somebody was at the gate, like my
home phone right in the intercom and it was like
night thirty at night and all lights off from the room,
get already already go to bed, and I'm like, who
the fuck's at the gate? So I pick it up

(36:25):
and it's all static like and that's hard, and it's
like a recording and it's like, yeah, you're lying, you know,
it's busy, b B whatever, whatever the fuck the recording is.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
So I hang up my kids like who is it?
Who's it? I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (36:39):
I thought somebody to give it to somebody to get
and then I hear boom, boom boom on the front
door of my house. My kid goes brah.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I starts just.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Hysterical right within a tenth of a second, and I'm like,
calm down and I go who is it?

Speaker 1 (36:56):
And they go LAPD and I go, Jo, shut the
fuck up.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
That ain't funny, motherfucker right this literally, because now I'm thinking,
like there's no way to LAPD. This is some asshole.
I know it thinks is funny or or I don't
know what the fuck it is. But now I got
the kid crying, like squeezing my leg and I'm looking
at my lock box to get my block.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
You know.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Then I'm going if.

Speaker 9 (37:21):
It's lapdoy shot then right, So I grab my I
grab my phone myself on a down nine one one,
I go hey, like, now, my mom, what's your say?

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I go, hey, you know my kids crying. I'm like,
I go, uh, listen. There's a couple of people at
my door who say they're LAPD Can you confirm that
for me? And they're like, what yours?

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, so I give you the jo.

Speaker 5 (37:43):
She goes, oh, no, no, those are LAPD We got
a nine one one call from your house. I I
don't call fucking nine mo.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Now.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
I go to my window when I see the cops
and I walk around my driveway.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
They're out in the rain. I go downstairs like I'm
in my robe, my kids in his Roby's still cleaning
me up the door. I'm like, hi, how you And
they were like, oh, we got a call.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
And I look at my kid.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
I'm like, yo. When I was in shower, you called
nine more money. He's like nah, man, and like I
still to this day do not know if I fully
believe he didn't do it. And I said, noah, man,
we didn't call. We didn't call emergency.

Speaker 5 (38:16):
And they were like, oh, sometimes when it rains, the
lines get crossed, this and that, and I was like yeah,
cool man, you know, but I don't know if they
were real fake but like that was like real life
power and the kid was fucking melting down.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Man, he was like traumatized.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
I love he was within a tenth of a second,
like yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Because he's short on me, I go, who the fuck is?

Speaker 6 (38:41):
Like that was where they're calling mal apd to confirm
like that's I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
I wasn't presented with a lot of options in that moment.

Speaker 5 (38:50):
The camera of that camera was out at the time
on the front because the battery, like and I just
hadn't changed it on that system.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I've since gone hard wire.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
So yeah, fuck you.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Anybody out there get ideas, but the hardware is the
way to go to. Yeah. So because they were like, oh,
you know, you should fix your camera and I'm like, oh, thanks, man,
you want a water for the round? Like now, we're.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
CaCO talking about it used to be like nice to
have the doorbell ring in your house.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
I just saw this.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, it's funny. I'll give it to him. But that's funny.
You know it used to be nice to have the
doorbell ring.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
It's true.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Yeah, who's that company?

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Whoa whoa.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah rings thet I'm like yoo, yeah, was crawling across
the floor.

Speaker 5 (39:45):
Crazy, right, because back then you had a landline. If
somebody was in the neighborhood, they stopped by. I was
in your neighborhood. Do they stopped by? You know, I
bought donuts or that? Like now it's like, like, you know,
want people stopping by?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
No, fuck though, text me that's larious. What so I
actually don't even remember this. If I know this, how
did you guys meet? How long you guys my friends?
Because I want to get in the mammoth after this?

Speaker 6 (40:13):
Well, you fucking I think like twenty sixteen, maybe like
I was before I was forty.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
It's when we were doing ballers though, right, we had
mutual friends, so I think we met.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Is that who it was?

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (40:28):
That's right, because I didn't really know Anthony that well either.
That master Muro.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Right, yeah, and I met you and Nikki at a
nice guy.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah, we had a couple.

Speaker 5 (40:37):
We had a couple like East Coast clicks that were
running around town together. Actually kind of connected one night.
Oh wow, so when everybody kind of started hanging out.
So yeah, Dom Lambordhosi introduced me and my our friend
Nicky c to Lorenzo Anthony Mastermuro. I had met before,
but I didn't really know him. So yeah, we all

(40:59):
kind of came friends.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Was like, this is your new crew man.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
He's a cool guy. Dom, Yeah, it's funny, but.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
I've never seen him.

Speaker 6 (41:14):
I'll ask my father's question after if you want to
get into Mammoth if I wasn't sure, if you wanted
to follow up.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
With that, I just want to talk about that crazy
night at the whatever bar.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
It was snowboard for fucking ragers.

Speaker 7 (41:30):
Snowboard ragers like that movie.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, we we're uh at Mammoth Film Festival and we're
why why were we there? And we were just it
was just a place to go that night.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
That bar, the bar, Yeah, no, everything closed.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (41:44):
Well they also had they had had and insane snowstorm, right,
and I mean they were like twenty foot drifts, like
pressed everywhere. Everywhere we went was like like amaze from
the shining or something. And I think the only place
that was open was that it's like some kind of tiki.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Bar with snowboarders right freezing.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah yeah, so and then uh, you and me paid
the guy right to go in.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
We got all of since we didn't have to wait online,
which probably pissed off a couple fucking locals.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Whateppened.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
Maybe that's what started it is ross yep. I feel
like there's a couple more luke. Yeah. Yeah, it was
probably five or six of us outdoor area.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
Right, So when we went in, we went to the
outdoor area and that was there, right, but all the
right so at the outdoor area was mostly the film
festival people, right, We're all hanging out smoking bullshit, and
it was cool. It was chill inside like a cent
and you know, a scene for your audience. I mean,

(42:50):
i'd say it was eighty male to female female.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Right, It was very die barish and it was fucking
packed and everybody and it was the kind of pact.
When we walked in there, I was like, Oh, this
fucking place could be a problem.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
I think I literally remember saying that.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, Like you look around and you.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
Go like, listen, if you're in a place like that
and you're like twenty three year old like punk Guss,
who's getting fucking tuned up and you're not getting laid
at the other night where I come from, at least
you're getting in a good fight, right, Like that's just
the vibe of it. And we were walking through that,
I was just like, fucking look at these kids. Like

(43:30):
some of these kids were fucking annihilated. So we're outside
and then for whatever reason, the bar people decide they're
going to close it. So they're like, all right, let's
move us inside. So we go inside. We hanging out
and you know, and Brock stands out because he's like
a giant. There was one other guy that's like Brox
sized but not as wide, and he like, you know,

(43:51):
he just stops looks at Brock.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
He's like, oh, looks a looke. He's like, oh, you
guys work out? Oh look, I work out.

Speaker 5 (43:58):
Too, you know, like all right, and then then there's
this other fucking snowboard type kid in his twenties that
thinks he's like, you know, the cool guy at the bar.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
He's probably you know, the guy like, oh, there's Jimmy.
Jimmy's here everybody, and know.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
He's like that guy, you know, and he like comes
past Brockerty, He's like, Yo, what's up man? You just
see brock gys so hard, like doesn't raize his hand.
The kid just moves along, you know. But we're just
like we're kind of in the middle of the place.
I didn't at this point, I personally didn't need to
be there anymore. I was like kind of over this shit.

(44:34):
Lorenzo's like in a fucking I mean, Lorenzo looks like
he's like, you know, coming out of the Ravennite Social
Club in New York, back in the gaudy area. He's
got like he's got like a cashmere turtleneck, an overcoat.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
A fucking wool scarf. His hair is like fluffed up.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
He's just kind of looking around, you know what I mean,
like super fancy, you know, our boy, Luke, I'm sure
was like drinking. Some aren't chatting to Random's about about
the wonderful Yeah, the wonderful nature of mammoth snow versus
Big Bear or whatever, whatever idle conversation.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
He's making with whoever, so fucking so I see and
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (45:19):
I think I'm with Brock at this point and Ross
McCall right, Russell calls an actors and band.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Of brothers really really cool guy. Was he British or Scottish?

Speaker 3 (45:30):
English?

Speaker 4 (45:31):
English?

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah, he's some you know, but super dope guy. I guess.
There were a couple of girls who were at the festival,
so Ross is talking.

Speaker 5 (45:42):
Ross had been talking to these girls at one of
the hotels we were at earlier in the night, so
we obviously had some kind of friendship with them. And
this kid who's like the Jimmy Cool kid of the
dive bar, is like grabbing it like one of the girls,
and she's like, dude, back off, back off. And Ross
es this and immediately it's like hey, bro like chill out,

(46:04):
chill out, you know, and the kids like getting a
little bit whatever. And I think at this point you
walk up right, Yeah, it was right there.

Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
So Brox and Bocks are like, okay, bro like get
out of here, and gives a kid a shove and
the kid flies like five feet. So the kid comes
back again.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
I don't know how Brock moved back, but the kid
comes back again and like Brock's are like hey, bro
like get out of here. Pushes the kid again and
the kid goes back. And at some point in this
kid's decision. And this kid's not a small kid. The
kid's like six one, he's obviously athletic.

Speaker 7 (46:34):
And this is the kid that was being a little
inappropriate with with the girl.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
He was grabbing the girl. He's just a drunk kid.

Speaker 5 (46:40):
And the die ball grabbing it this chick, well obviously
you know what I mean, she's literally grabbing her like
come on.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
She's like, dude, like, get the fuck off me. I'm
also trying to calm him down, and you know, he.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
Just made tre got in between so that there was
no way for him to get to the girls. And
then he just he just push him out.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
But and Lorenzo was like having conversations and all of
a sudden, this kid comes.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Charging a brock.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Dude.

Speaker 5 (47:04):
It was like it was like Braveheart like or like
Lasting Mohicans where David day Lewis has like the like
the fucking thing and he's gonna come down on it. Yeah,
Lorenzo in slow motion sees his kid charging the brock
and it's look Colborn and he goes running in like
in some hammer fist over the top, boom onto this

(47:29):
kid's face, and this kid goes down, and I'm like,
holy fucked.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
And now the whole bar, like.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
The centrifugal force of it all, just spreads out like
somebody had dropped a bomb, and like he goes out this.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Way, and I'm like, holy shit, Lorenzo, what the fuck?

Speaker 5 (47:47):
So I'm going to grab Lorenzo's arm and pull him back,
and I'm not noticing who's next to me.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
I think we're just pulling Lorenzo out of his prey.

Speaker 5 (47:58):
And it's the guy who's brock size, who's been like, hey,
I work out too. He's got Lorenzo under his neck.
So I'm like, Lorenzo, chill out, I'm pulling me. Looks
at me like, okay, there's rob and then he looks up.
He sees this guy and he does like a double take.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Why is this guy got's.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Around my neck?

Speaker 1 (48:15):
And Lorenzo punches him with an upper.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Face.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
The guy, this six foot five guy, goes flying back.
That's the bar, and I'm like, holy shit, fucking insady.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
And I hit him one more time and then and
I'm about to hit him again.

Speaker 10 (48:35):
He's like, well, yeah, yo, the vest is so now
now we're like like, first off, they're like yeah, I'm
like all right, this whole bar is gonna turn into
fucking mayhem in about two seconds because.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
These cats are like local guys. We It was crazy.
Is the first guy like takes off his shirt and
he's like, come on, come on. And I'd never seen
this before. And I don't know if it's a.

Speaker 5 (48:59):
Result of the kindness campaigns in the world, but the
Italire dance floor was look at that kid like, get
the fuck out, Like yeah, and I never saw security,
by the way, no security comes nobody. Yeah, but everybody's
like get the fuck out, leave, get rye in the night,
and like Journey's playing Don't Stop Believing, and.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
People like dance screwing at me. He's like, Lorenzo, you
are a fucking wild animal right now. This isn't queens.
Stop look at me, Look at me right now. You
gotta calm down. You're a wild animal. And I'm like, oh,
killery fucking body.

Speaker 6 (49:37):
Yo.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
It was.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
It was hysterical. So that kid leaves.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
Then the six foot seven guy's got like a nice,
nice mouse under his eye. He's like walking up and
like I'm me and Bronco like back there, and Lorenzo's
facing us, and Lorenzo's like he's behind me. I'm like
he's lurking. He's trying to figure out if you want
to come over and apologize, because.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
I don't think that guy was really looking to choke him.
I think that guy thought like, let me separate this.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Because these are my friends, all my friends.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
I met these guys, they trust me, we all.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Know each other, we all work out, Yeah, we all
work out.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
And uh so he started to lurk, and then we're
all just kind of looking at him, and then he
kind of drifted towards the dance floor and he stopped
and he took one more look at all of us,
and then he exited.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
All I knocked his soul out of him.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Yeah, they were big, bro they were big shots. They
were hysterical the whole thing, and the fighting is. I
look at Brock and like.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
He's like, I love the Renzo. I don't have the
heart to tell him, but.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
I had it on the control. Yeah, I wasn't that worried.
He's like I had it all under control.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Like I'm watching this guy run at me, like I
knew because I pushed him back just a little bit
the first time. I was being nice, right, I didn't
like really shove him too hard. Then he comes at
me again and I'm like, and he's coming towards the chick,
all right, So I pushed him. He goes back like
ten feet. Yeah, and that's when he made the decision
to charge at me. And I'm telling you, I'm like
sitting here like kind of smiling, like what is this

(51:03):
guy gonna do?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Really? And I'm not worried at all.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
And I didn't even see Lorenzo come out, and he
just came out of nowhere from behind me, just dexas.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Yeah, he folds like a friging I.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Like just went down bro claps like. He didn't fall forward,
he didn't fall backwards, he fell straight just like his body.
I can't explain, but you just got dropped drop straight
down video.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
So they can make those new things that they're doing
with all the UFC guys.

Speaker 6 (51:30):
They get kicked, they get knocked out, and then they
put into a car and drive ball.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
So they get put into a horse like a game like.

Speaker 6 (51:38):
It's reels that like they show when the guy gets
knocked out and he's about the fall.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Oh yeah, a car and he starts to drive knocked
I was like, you got to see it, understand what
I'm saying. No, I've seen those for sure.

Speaker 7 (51:50):
They're great.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Mammoths was fun though. Man, we had a good time.
We had some laps up there.

Speaker 7 (51:56):
Sounds like that was like a good prevention of things
that could have gotten worse, which is good.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
That's my line, bro, if you put your hands or
if you harm a woman or a child, you're done.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
Yeah, that's my line.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
That's where it all started from with the girls.

Speaker 6 (52:09):
So what was the transition like going from you know,
massive shows like Entourage, how to Make It in America
and then you another huge hit, Ballers and that. How
did you find that transitioning from those shows? Like was
it a fun creative process?

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Was it like, how did it feel you made from
one to the next.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
Because there's two transitions we could talk about, Okay, we
could talk about the transition of working for pretty much
let's say zero four through fifteen straight years, basically a
good fifteen year run from Entourage, how to Make It
America at the Ballers to the transition of nothing right,
which is a very interesting experience, or we could talk

(52:54):
about how to switch gears between projects.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
I always had multiple projects.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
So before Ballers, I was writing the Seals Angel movie
about Sunny Boger. Before I think around time I had
to make an America. I was still on Entourage when
we developed that. But I've been developing a bunch of
different stuff and that just happened to me that was
the one that was moving forward.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
So those transitions I think are easier because you're in it.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
Lev Steve Levinson created Ballers, you know, he did all
of him and Mark did the grimework with that and
got Dwayne involved.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
That was more like I was invited to come on
pre pilot.

Speaker 5 (53:40):
For a Writer's Room, which was going to be for
a few months over a summer to break season one,
so that if HBO was interested in I'm not even
sure if they had committed to the pilot at that time,
to be honest with you, if they were interested in
making the pilot, that they could tell them what season
one would look like, or if they made the pilot
like it just we could give him this is what

(54:01):
season one would look like.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
So maybe that's what the plan was.

Speaker 5 (54:04):
We'd have to ask lev But I went on to it,
you know, as Steve's guy with Steve Evan Riley who's
going to run that show board, his buddy Steve, Charlotte
and the four of us got in the room and
we kind of like in just like a halful of
weeks match figure out a whole season of television, right,
which is kind of what we're doing now on the

(54:25):
show that we're out with that, people are like, oh,
what does the season look like? You kind of got
to be fully stacked, you know, in terms of your
vision for what it looks like when you go to
sell it, because.

Speaker 7 (54:38):
Even with the pilot, right, even with just yeah, I think.

Speaker 5 (54:41):
Like listen, if they were like, hey, we love it,
we'll shoot a pilot, I don't think anbade shoot a
pilot anymore unless they knew you know, that you knew
what the season was going to be and walk them
through it information and the granular, granularate nature. It has

(55:01):
gotten so paramount for people to fully see the vision
and understand it. So at that time we did that,
and then then the opportunity just came, like, you know,
because I said I'd come on for just these few
weeks or months or whatever was gonna be. And then
they were like, well you could stay on be an EP,
do this, do that, and then you know, the opportunity

(55:23):
was good, and.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
I think I had a kid on the way at
that time, so I was like, fuck it, let's do it.

Speaker 5 (55:28):
But that one's more of a Steve thing, whereas I
feel like how to make an America. I drove that
substantially more than I drove Ballers, you know, and a
part that was part of my life experience. You know,
it was started by Ian that process Edelman on a
show he hit sold to HBO, but it was slightly
different exceptually.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
So see, I think that's interesting to hear too, as
like you know, a fan of all the shows, it's
kind of like there's different even though it's a similar group,
it can be different on maybe who brought it or
you know, writer's room makeup right.

Speaker 5 (56:04):
Of course here, Well, you know, there's certain things that
play to people's strengths, you know, I think that, like,
you know, I've never been in a band, Lorenzo has
I don't make music, but I think that people have lanes.
But there's something special when certain people work together. Yeah,

(56:27):
you know, and and they click in a certain way,
you know, and certainly I felt like we did that
on Entourage, you know, I felt like me and Doug
knew each other, you know for.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
A long time.

Speaker 5 (56:38):
We have a lot of similar tastes and things, you know,
or we might find the same things kind of funny,
and that might be to a degree cultural and environmental,
you know, just being a couple like Long Island Jewish kids, like,
there are certain things we're going to share, you know,
from the same generation and that air in that time

(57:01):
that you know, we grew up. But I think that
you know, sometimes somebody brings eighty to the table and
you bring twenty. Sometimes you got the vision brings seventy,
they bring thirty. So it's just it's like a guy,
I would imagine it, like a man, you know, with all.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
The dysfunction and all the fucking ego and craziness.

Speaker 5 (57:23):
You know.

Speaker 6 (57:24):
Yeah, Like do you look at the Beatles. It's like
Lennon would write a song, George to write a song.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
They were all talented, man, you know. So the Beatles, you.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Know ingredients, man, yeah, certain ingredients to make the sauce.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (57:40):
Well, I appreciate the incredible answer for my shitty question
it was.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
It wasn't shitty, you know.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
And as for the transition of coming out to nothingness,
that was a bigger pill for me to swallow.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
I think, you know, Bawlers might not have.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
Had the zeitgeist the impact that's something like Entourage did,
but it had a huge fucking audience for HBO and
I mean Dwayne at the.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Time also probably one of top movie stars in the world,
you know.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
And yeah, and you go ship like, I wrote a
large portion of it, I directed a bunch of.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Them, repeede it. You're like, I felt, I felt.

Speaker 5 (58:26):
Rewards on being a part of that show that I
hadn't felt on Entourage and how to make an America.
And the only the only reason I could think to
justify that feeling is that it was a more complete
experience for me. Right, Like, I'm writing and I'm directing
and producing, and I'm doing more things, so I feel

(58:49):
more ownership in a finished episode, right, I'm thinking that's
what it is.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
I still don't know for a fact.

Speaker 5 (58:56):
I love the cast that there's so many things I
loved about the experience working on Ballers, But when Balls ended,
let's gonna make another show, you know, because you get
fucking spoiled, right Like you get like, hey, I go
to work.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
This is what I do. You know, you do what
you do.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
You do what you do.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
I do what I do.

Speaker 5 (59:17):
I get to make TV shows and then like no, no, no,
you know, we're gonna shut down for this pandemic, you know,
And then you come out of the pandemic, and then
maybe the kind of stuff I do or I like
to be a part of isn't super popular right now.
Maybe there's some other things at work culturally right and
they don't want to do that kind of stuff, or
maybe they like, these are the guys who did on Darage,

(59:39):
remember all Deurage what that was. So now you're just
sitting there like, holy fuck, Like I just want to
go create, man, Like I want to go work and
I want to make cool shit. And you know, I
you know, I guess you do what I did, which
was just continue to try to do that. And it's
what I'll always do is just be persistent. But you know,

(01:00:03):
those transitions to me of not working coming from work, Hey, look, man,
I could get a series picked up and then I
gotta go back to work. That might be the toughest
transition of all I have no idea. I got used
to spending four hours a day at Equinox. You know,
I might be like, you know, like, what do you mean,
I don't get to go to Equinox for four hours

(01:00:23):
this morning. I gotta be on set, Like that could
be a tricky transition to I guess, like how we
navigate life all these transitions.

Speaker 8 (01:00:32):
But you know what the best part of this whole
journey is whether the ups and downs the worst downs
than there are ups. Which makes you appreciate the ups
is I knew Rob maybe five months, four months, and
we're in our steam room, in our locker, and the
one that we should have talked about. You know, we're

(01:00:55):
executive members at Equinox, so everybody knows that. You know,
we have these memberships that we have, like our laundry done,
we have parking, we get free water, coffee.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Bananas, and we got lounges. It is what it is.
You're paying another few hundred dollars and you get a
little bit of luxury.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Bro Yeah, I mean it's a poor man's country club.
He's been around.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
He's been around some pretty exotic clubs in his life,
you know. But I'm saying, it's like, oh, it's just
literally like the poor Man's Country Club.

Speaker 8 (01:01:24):
So we're in this steam room when we're just fucking
kicking ideas around and he's like, you know, uh, you know,
I wrote you into Ballers.

Speaker 5 (01:01:33):
I was like, what it was actually Lev's idea. It
was Lev's like, Yo, what don't we use the guys?
Put all the boys in?

Speaker 8 (01:01:41):
So I did two episodes because of him and Lev
and you know, obviously thank you Robin. And he introduced
me to Dwayne the day that we were doing our
scene and he was like, yo, tell him who your
uncle was.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
And Yne was like, who was his uncle? I was like,
j Strada, it's like my family from Puerto Rico, and
the rock.

Speaker 8 (01:01:58):
Went really the wrestler like it took him like because
you know, he felt it because my uncle fought they
would They were on the road together with Jimmy, with
Jimmy Fly Snooker, Rocky Myavia.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
His grandpa and oh wow, and Rocky Johnson is that
he was he that that's the crew in the seventies
and eighties. Well, that's such a small world, very small world.

Speaker 8 (01:02:25):
The wrestling community is really tied together. So my Puerto
Rican side of my life is was the legends in
Puerto Rico.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:02:33):
You know my uncle, which is Jose Strada, he's you know,
they never blew up, but you know there's videos of
my uncle fighting Hulk Hogan when Hulk Hogan was you know,
about to blow up and they all came up together.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
So that was a cool moment. And he did that,
and then we introduced Tech nine.

Speaker 6 (01:02:50):
Right then we introduced oh yeah today, and we brought
Tech nine set and then hit the hip hop and
techno the guy tech Yeah, yeah because Dwayney tech nine.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Yeah, is that the one he did the song with
Tech Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
He knew.

Speaker 6 (01:03:08):
We knew that Tech nine was obviously a fan of
the rock. Dwayne always pumped him like while he's in
the gym or he's always like yo, Tech nine and
you know the technicians and whatever. He would always so
we were like, we gotta tee this up me and
Shawnee and then wait, they were shooting in like Inglewood

(01:03:28):
and I was like, yo, go to set with tech Now,
go to set with Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:33):
No, it was just like yo, you know Tech nine,
he's like the rapper. I go, yeah, yeah, he wants
meeting man you want to meet him. He's like Tech nine.
He's like yeah yeah, and I was like, all right, yeah,
I'll set up. He's like, wait, how do you know
Tech nine. I'm like, I don't I know them two people.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
So that would happen all the fucking time now.

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
Like I was out with his stylist, the Laria, like
with some friends or something, and I was like, oh,
I was with the styles Lauria.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
He's like, how do you know Laria? And oh my god?

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
Just through some mutual friends, you know. And then the
funniest they went away. He was like, we were shooting
something in Vegas and my buddy Frankie says's with me
on set and we were just bullshitting with Dwayne about
something and he was like, how do you guys know
each other? I said, oh, I said, we met through

(01:04:22):
Nick Diaz and frank and and and Dwayne goes he goes,
Nick da has the Fighter. I go yeah, and he goes,
you know, Nicky has the Fighter and I'm like, yeah,
I know Nick and Nate. I go Nick just left.
I put him In the last scene, he was sitting
at the poker table at the black Talk table. He goes,
Nick Diaz was here. This is the fucking the biggest

(01:04:44):
movie star world. I go, I go, you know the
DZ Brothers. You're like, no, but he goes up. I
love to watch those guys fighting. And I was like, well,
you just missed him.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
He just left.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
Man.

Speaker 8 (01:04:53):
It was hysterical to the point of that one of
the biggest stars in the world and he's the sweetest guy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
So yeah, he's a solid cat man.

Speaker 6 (01:05:03):
But I love that like intersection of culture, right, and
like your shows were so good at that of like
not only creating an original culture but also like bringing
in are the you know, the culture. I guess we
would call it, right, that's so cool here because it's
like there's an that there's a mutual admiration for whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Yeah, I think that's I think that's really what that's like.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
You know what that highlights, right, is that Dwayne Dwayne.
I mean I I you know, I've been around this
town for thirty years. There's very few people that have
the the fan base that Dwayne has. I mean, my kid,
since he's fucking I mean, he looks at Brock like

(01:05:51):
he's a godles.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
It looks hysterical. He looks at.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
Brock like too in Mammoth, like he is a god,
like you know, like look at this guy, like he
played Hok Hogan on the Rock Show. Because my kid
watched a rock show. My kid would like trip out
about Dwayne. You know, he's like like even yesterday he
was on his iPad watch it. Yeah he did, but
he was like a year old. So there's like pictures
of like him in my arms on set and Dwayne

(01:06:18):
and my kid being here pointing to Dwayne.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
But he isn't no Dwayne. You know that's cool, but
he knows I knew Dwayne, you know what I mean. So,
but yeah, you know he has he has a massive,
massive fan base.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
You know, it appeals to a lot of different people.

Speaker 6 (01:06:34):
You look like Instagram alone, it's like, you know, you
kind of got everyone in the mix. And then it's
like the rock like four hundred million. Yeah, it's like
I didn't know it could go that high.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean he took you know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
You think I feel like the last time I checked.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
It's hard to it's hard to break it down.

Speaker 5 (01:06:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:06:55):
As I was saying, four fifty seven, okay, everybody think,
guess how many of the Rocks follow.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Four hundred and fifty seven million. Yeah, but he only
gets nine comments.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
I'll do joking it's three ninety seven.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
He has three hundred and ninety seven million followers.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
That's crazy.

Speaker 7 (01:07:17):
That's more people than the United States.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, of course, man, yeah, of course the entire United States.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
That's what I mean. What's the percentage of the world
that's the world eight billion?

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
And who's got more him? Ronaldo.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
I'm joking, I'm over Exicty probably have five hundred.

Speaker 6 (01:07:38):
But that's the point, right, It's like there's like literally
a handful of people maybe yeah with that, yeah, like
a handful anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
That's so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Yeah, No, it was cool to work with him.

Speaker 5 (01:07:51):
And I think as for the culture stuff, you know,
you know, it all ties together my lack of desire
to be old and to eye and well to die old.
I don't live in fear of death, but like to
become old and not know what's going on around me
and not have a sense of relevance, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
And I think all the guys have always worked with.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
For their own reasons and in their own ways have
their finger on the pulse, you know, or helping to
you know, push culture in one direction. Or in another
or who have a really great perspective on why they're
these are there are these cultural shifts and things that

(01:08:36):
are happening, and I think it's important to just be
involved in projects that are of the time, you know,
Like people bring me really cool shit and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Yeah it's in the sixties. I'm like, man, you know,
I don't want to go there.

Speaker 5 (01:08:51):
Man, you know what I mean, like, like, what's how's
it relevant today in terms of its you know, the
thoughts and the right you know, I mean, why is
it gonna Well yeah too, but you know, I think
it's uh, by the way, its cups are fucking dope.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Dad's got a patch in there in the middle of this.
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
Man.

Speaker 5 (01:09:11):
Anybody have to steal one of these from the podcast,
Like just walk out with a cup in their pants.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Is different.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
I don't I don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:09:23):
I don't know if they're officially doing something. But we'll
be out there, so yeah, we'll be we'll be next
to you, next door dude. Yeah when like next door
to or we we're gonna

Speaker 7 (01:09:32):
Talk offline about that.