December 9, 2022 • 19 mins
The Biden administration stuck a deal with Russia to free WNBA star Brittney Griner. In exchange for her freedom, the U.S. released arms dealer Vitkor Bout, who is known as the “Merchant of Death.” This caps a 10 month ordeal for Griner after she was arrested for possession hash oil cartridges in Russia. Alex Ward, national security reporter at Politico, joins us for what to know about her release and what happens to Paul Whelan another American in Russian custody for espionage chargers.
Next, the chip manufacturing boom in the U.S. is just beginning. This week President Biden toured a Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. plant in Arizona that is tripling its investments to build new semiconductor chips. As the relationship between China, Taiwan, and the U.S. continues to be strained, we are rushing to build our own local supply. Matt Phillips, markets correspondent at Axios, joins us for how the U.S. semiconductor industry is just starting.
Finally, more businesses are getting rid of their customer service reps you can reach by phone and increasingly offering options such as chat boxes to resolve issues. For many companies, it is cost prohibitive to maintain staff just to answer calls and the result is they are making their numbers harder to find or getting rid of them all together. Rachel Wolfe, consumer trends reporter at the WSJ, joins us for why connecting with a human is almost impossible.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Friday, December nine. I'm Oscar Ramirez in Los Angeles
and this is the Daily Dive. The Biden administration struck
a deal with Russia to free w n b A
star Britney Griner. In exchange for her freedom, the US
released arms dealer Vigor Bout, who was known as the
Merchant of Death. This caps a ten month or deal
(00:22):
for Grinder after she was arrested for possession of hash
oil cartridges in Russia. Alex Ward, national security reporter at Politico,
joins US for what to know about her release and
what happens to Paul Wheeling, another American and Russian custody
for espionage charge. Next, the chip manufacturing boom in the
US is just beginning. This week, President Biden toward a
(00:43):
Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing company plant in Arizona that is trickling
its investments to build new semi conductor chips. As the
relationship between China, Taiwan and the US continues to be strained,
we are rushing to build our own local supply. Matt Phillips,
market correspondent at Axios joined US for how the U
S semiconductor industry is just starting Finally, more businesses are
(01:06):
getting rid of their customer service reps you can reach
by phone and increasingly offering options such as chat boxes
to resolve issues. For many companies, it is cost prohibitive
to maintain staff just to answer calls. Rachel Wolf, Consumer
Trends report at The Wall Street Journal joins us for
why connecting with the human is almost impossible. It's news
without the noise. Let's dive in. This is a day
(01:32):
we've worked toward for a long time. We never stopped
pushing for her release. It took painstaking, the intense negotiations,
and I want to thank all the hard working public
servants across my administration who worked tirelessly to secure her release.
Joining us now was Alex Ward, national security reporter at Politico.
Thanks for joining us, Alex, thanks for having me well.
(01:54):
On Thursday, we saw Russia free w n B, a
star Britney grinder. This was a high profile prisoner exchange.
On our side, we released the Russian arms dealer Victor About.
He's known as the Merchant of Death for the arms
dealing that he was doing. The administration has been working
on this for some time, like some ten months that
they've been trying to get this deal done, and finally
(02:16):
they were able to bring Brittany Grinder home. Alex, tell
us what we know about what happened with this. So,
as you rightually noted, this has been really going on
these negotiations since Griner was detained in February for having
you hash oil in her bag at a Moscow airport.
And what they've been really trying to do with a
being the Biden administration was trade effectively two Americans Grinder
(02:38):
and Paul Wheeland, a farmer marine who has been detained
in Russia for four years unproven charges of espionage in
exchange for Victor about who, as you said, was the
merchant of death and he has been charged in the
US with trying to kill Americans as well as aiding
the Taliban Afghanistan, recruiting child soldiers, mutilation, et cetera. I mean,
not not a great time. But the Russians pushed back
(03:00):
on this too for one deal, saying it really needed
to be Grinder for Boot. The decision basically came to
Biden the last couple of weeks saying, look with the
Russian this is where the Russians are. They will not
budge from this it's basically either Grinder come home or
no one comes home. And Biden decided to make the
decision to do the one for one deal, grant clemency
(03:21):
to boot who was going to be in prison until
and make this deal in the UAE where they were
exchanged at an Abu Dhabi. So that's sort of what
happened here, and that's why Britney Grinders, as we speak
at this moment, flying back to the United States and
the difficult decision that went into this. Right, what are
people saying, you know, is this a lopsided deal? Because
(03:42):
as you mentioned, you you detailed about and all the
stuff that he was done, known as the Merchant of Death.
You know, Britney Grinder obviously a basketball star, but we
had this whole thing that happened with Russia and Ukraine.
There was you know, saying that she was a political pond.
You know, what are people saying about the deal that
was made? Well, I mean there is a bit of
concern because look, I mean there are many people who
(04:05):
are saying it is a basketball star in exchange for
an extremely prominent and likely dangerous man. They are not equivalent, right,
and so because of that, there is concerned that maybe
the US gave up too much an exchange for Grinder
as just as our cause. Maybe, And of course it
is not on the Biden administration, but any administration's policy
to work as diligently and as hard as possible to
(04:27):
bring any American rosidly detained abroad home. And so you
have to imagine the Biden administration had a tough decision
to me to try to call Russia as bluff. Is
it possible? You know that if we decided to keep
Brittany in Russia, could we get Grinder and we land
for boot down the line. The administration decided not to
take that risk. They decided to do the eel on
the table, which was one for one. But now you
(04:49):
see the administration not really speaking to legitimate questions about
what are the security concern now that food is freed.
All you really heard Karine Jean Pierre, the White House
Press Sect Terry say is Biden considered the security risks
and did not take the decision lightly indicating that there
are some security risks now that Buddhist street. But we're
just not clear what those may be. As far as
(05:11):
Paul Wheel and what we're hearing. You know, his family
did speak out, they said it sucks that he couldn't
come home too, but it still was the right decision. Yes,
but you also haven't heard from Paul Whelan himself say
you know why am I still sitting here? So he
is angry. And I talked to Elizabeth's wheel and his
sister who said, look, he's just trying to be remembered.
You know, who wouldn't be upset. And we have to
remember that in April, the US was able to release
(05:33):
Trevor Read, another former marine, but did not bring Paul
Whelan Holmes. So that's now twice this year that another
American hostage in Russia has come home, but Paul Wheeland
has stayed in prison, and so he's he's naturally asking,
you know, why not me? You know, why am I
still here? And so yes, you know, when you talk
to the Wheeland family, they will say, of course, you know,
are we happy about bringing Reading returned? Of course, every
(05:54):
you know, every American should returned home. But they are
understandably upset, and as is Paul understandably upset um that
Paul Whilland still remains in a Russian prison. Stuff. The
situations were obviously different. Britney Grinder had drugs on her.
She the these hash oil cartridges. Paul Whelan's in there
for espionage, that's what they they got him on. And
obviously he you know, he's saying, hey, I was this
(06:14):
is completely untrue all that. So obviously the situations are different.
Do we have any indication of what Russia wants for
Paul Wheelan? Now, well, we've heard that they would like
a Russian who is currently detained in Germany, who is
there charged with killing a Georgian citizen in twenty nineteen.
There's also been talking that the Russians would like the
(06:35):
US to hand over a Russian spy to them, but
the US that says that it is not and she
does not detain one, there's not one to give. So,
you know, it's unclear if maybe the US was talking
to Germany and the Germans didn't want to give up
that Russian, or the U s isn't being fourth right,
or there really isn't someone to trade. But this is
sort of complicating the issue, right because there were a
(06:57):
lot of people that were saying the price should be
very high for it should be Grinder and Wheeland. The
fact that grinder's you know, no longer on the table,
that she's you know, gratefully and rightfully coming home. You
know that that makes it harder, very likely to bring
Paul Wheeland home. It's unclear what else the US could
give at this point. There may be some other deal
they're working on. I mean, Paul Whelan's lawyer in in
(07:17):
Russia seems pretty optimistic that there might be a deal
down the line. Elizabeth Wheeland again, paul sister told me
that the way that the Russians were providing paula phone
to call the family in the morning, which is a
rare time. The access to US officials gave her the
sense that maybe the Russians are trying to loosen up
a little bit on Paul. But that, of course remains
(07:37):
to be seen. It is completely unclear. They could just
be more open now because of course there's there was
a big deal just made. Alex Ward, national security reporter
at Politico, thank you very much for joining us. Absolutely
what's happening now is a bit more conser earn less
(08:01):
about sort of access to any chips, and more concern
about specifically relying on a small country like Taiwan that
is increasingly imperiled by China. Joining US now is Matt Phillips,
Markets correspondent at Axios. Thanks for joining us, Matt, thanks
for having me. Let's talk about the US chip industry
(08:21):
right now and how the boom is just going to
be getting started right now. So we obviously know what
happened throughout the pandemic. We saw semiconductors and computer chips
just really lacking of setting us back with new car
construction and a whole host of industries, and uh, you know,
we saw a growing need to kind of do it
for ourselves here in the United States. We were getting
(08:42):
a ton of chips from Taiwan. I think they, you know,
one of the companies there are manufacturers over half of
the world's chips, and we said, hey, we need to
get this done over here. So this week we saw
the President Biden travel to Arizona to one of these
chip companies as they kind of kicked off this plant
and really just increase the manufacturing of this stuff. So
what are we seeing with all this map. There's kind
(09:04):
of two separate things that we're seeing. We all remember
the shortages of chips that we saw after the COVID reopening.
Began and it became so expensive to try to find
cars and spiraled into a whole bunch of other products.
So that's one thing that's a bit more of an
inconvenience type issue. What's going on in Arizona is really
interesting because that's a bit more strategic. It's a bit
(09:26):
less about having an easy, steady supply of relatively low
value chips to put in things like cars. It's more
about the really high end, cutting edge chips that we
rely on for technologies that are really important for cell
phones but also for national security applications. So what's happening
(09:48):
now is a bit more concern less about sort of
access to any chips and more concern about specifically relying
on a small country like Taiwan that is increasingly imperiled
by China. Like that's kind of what's going on with
this one. Yeah, and tell us a little bit more
about that front right now, because we do get a
lot of chips from Taiwan, but we're seeing the tensions
(10:10):
that are happening between China and Taiwan even and uh,
you know, we don't want to get kind of lost
in the shuffle there, that's right, you know, we're living
in an interesting time where really, since the end of
the Cold War, the assumptions that global business leaders operated
with were that goods, people, capital could all largely flow
(10:33):
across borders relatively easily. War was kind of a thing
of the past of the twentieth century, and we could
basically all put that behind us and focus on building
these really sprawling networks of supply chains all around the
world that could deliver really really high end products at
are really low price. That kind of era is increasingly
(10:55):
looking like it's over. Between the war and Ukraine, with
Russia's invasion and the really extreme response that we saw
to Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan, where China was really
for the first time doing exercises about how to enforce
a blockade of Taiwan. It's really not lost on business
(11:15):
leaders and political leaders that we really need to have
access to some of these super high end chips, you know,
within the United States, you know, within our own control,
because as what we've seen, like Germany built its entire
economy around having a relatively steady flow of access to
Russian natural gas. Now that's over, you know, and they
can then the economy is really struggling to figure out
(11:37):
how to adjust to that. So we're trying to not
to make those kind of strategic missteps, and that's a
big part of what's going on. And it was interesting
when we saw President Biden traveling to Arizona earlier in
the week. They said, hey, why are you traveling to
a border state without actually visiting the border, and he said, something,
you know, we got other big things to do there,
and so this was what that trip was tell us
a little bit about what they're going to be doing
(11:59):
there in Arizona. They're going to be creating a lot
of jobs, and then obviously what we're talking about, you know,
hopefully uh creating a lot of these high value chips
that we need. The actual plant that he was visiting
is being opened by Taiwan Semi Conductor. They're arguably the
biggest producer of chips in the world and have about
fifty percent of the share of what's called foundry business
(12:22):
that's essentially contract chip making for other companies, and they
produced some of the world's most sophisticated chips. And previously
we relied on their operations in Taiwan, and as we
said before, that's looking like that island of twenty three
million people next to this one point four billion population
behemoth is looking increasingly imperiled. So the government passed this
(12:45):
act in August. Biden signed it into law. It's called
the Chips and Science Act, and that includes about fifty
billion dollars in subsidies to try to coax these chip
manufacturing plants to build new plants all around the US.
And that's really been happening. A couple in Arizona, actually,
Kaiwan Semi Conductor basically tripled the size of their original
(13:06):
investment that they announced um yesterday, so they're gonna be
spending about forty billion dollars there. Samsung, which is a
big Korean chip maker they're talking about me be spending
two billion dollars building out there basically chip making enterprise
in you in and around Austin, Texas area. So I mean,
it's really a huge amount of business that it could,
(13:26):
you know, go into the U. S. Economy. It's great news,
it's jobs that will stay here. But uh, and you
made the mention at the end of the article too,
it's still going to take a long time to kind
of ramp that up. So while it's great that we're
doing it now. Really, that shift and balances are going
to happen for some time as you need to build
out these things really get things rolling, yeah, for sure.
And it requires a lot of highly trained people. So
(13:48):
people have to be trained up. I mean literally, we
make zero of these kinds of chips and the United
seats right now, so they're going to have to bring
in a lot of people from Taiwan to train Americans
on how to make these things, how to operate the machine.
We had to install the machinery. So it's a huge
long term investment, but hopefully one that will result in
steady jobs and economic and national security. Matt Phillips, markets
(14:12):
correspondent at Axios, thank you very much for joining us.
Thanks so much for having me. Everybody is comfortable with
an online tool. It's not great for everything, and so
you know, there are about consumers that upset that they've
(14:34):
run into issues not being able to find a phone number,
not being able to get in touch with a real
person at a company over the past year. Joining us
now is Rachel Wolf, consumer trends reporter at The Wall
Street Journal. Thanks for joining us, Rachel, Thanks much for
having me. Let's talk about customer service and how important
it is obviously, you know when businesses are interacting with
(14:54):
customers that a lot of them pride themselves on great
customer service as consumers who really very much appreciate ate that.
But we're starting to see it's that it's a lot
of businesses are starting to make their phone numbers a
lot harder to find or getting rid of them altogether,
where you can want, you know, call a company, call
a business and get something taken care of. A lot
of them are switching over to chat bots, they're switching
(15:17):
over to other virtual systems, and sometimes it's not the
easiest thing to communicate through. So, Rachel, what are we
seeing with this? Yeah, you know, you're exactly right that
a lot of companies are moving to take down their
phone numbers, hide them on their website, and just generally
make it a lot more difficult to get in touch
with the real person on the other end. Yeah, and
(15:40):
we're seeing places like Frontier Airlines, Breeze Airways, the reservation
platform RESI, Facebook, a lot of these places have done
away with those phone numbers. So what does the reasoning
behind that? What are they looking to do with it?
You know, it's a labor calculation. It's all about the
money as always, but it's expensive to have people manning
(16:00):
the phones and answering every little customer request that comes up.
Some data shows that somebody can respond to three people
at once on a chat who is on the other
side of a chat box, versus obviously can only talk
to one person at once on the phone, and so
it's a cost saving. There was a morning Console poll
(16:20):
that they conducted for for the Wall Street Journal saying
about half of the respondent said that I guess they're
they're not completely sold on just kind of this digital
only help that you know, most of them do want
somebody to be able to communicate with totally. People still
like talking to somebody else on the phone. Sometimes it
really is just the fastest, most convenient way to get
(16:41):
something done. Not in a hundred percent of cases. You know,
when an online tool works, it really works. But you know, ideally,
I think companies recognize that you've got to offer both
and meet customers where they're at. Not everybody is comfortable
with an online tool. It's not great for everything, and
so you know, there are about a two percentage consumers
(17:01):
that upset that they've run into issues not being able
to find a phone number, not being able to get
in touch with a real person at a company over
the past year. Restaurants in particular are one of those
things that you mentioned earlier, right, It's about those cost
calculations and head count A lot of times, restaurants in particular,
when we've talked about it before, coming out of the
pandemic and still struggling with hiring workers, you know, they said,
(17:23):
you know, we can't have somebody just manning a phone
all day taking reservations. We need them busy doing other things.
So then this particular case, I found it very easy
to make a lot of online reservations, but you know,
when you need to talk to somebody, smooth something over,
find some alternatives, that's kind of where the difficulty lies
when you're dealing with restaurants exactly. And you know, I
spoke to a great restaurant owner who explained it really well.
(17:45):
And you know what they're doing is they say you
can only make a reservation online for the month of December.
You can still call for something else, like if you're
trying to plan a party or if you have a
food allergy. But if you're looking to change a reservation
or make a reservation. You have to use the online
reservation systems. And you said, you know, we would love
to be able to also offer it on the phone,
(18:06):
but you know, we could staff an entire call center
and we can't. You know, being dramatic, of course, we
wouldn't be able to keep up with demand the phone.
It's just bringing off the hook and you know, we
just we can't. He was the one who said, we
can't pay somebody just to answer the phone. I already
has the staff with two hundred, paying a lot of
people to do a lot of different things. But it
shows it's not easy for businesses either. And to the
(18:27):
point of all, this customer service is so important and
if it doesn't go right, you know they're those consumers
are gonna maybe not do business with you. You did
speak to somebody who tried to fix something with an
airline for her mom, and it didn't really go well.
They couldn't really get it. I think they ended up
fixing it on Facebook, Messenger or something, and they said,
you know, this is going to make us not fly
(18:49):
with that airline for some time, just because of how
bad that situation was. Exactly, yes, she was dealing with
it for five hours, and it was a family emergency
that had come up and needed to change a flight,
and she just needed to talk to somebody in Frontier
last month announced that they would no longer be offering
phone service at all. So it's pretty dramatic, um, and
(19:12):
you know in this in this instance, it was pretty
frustrating with this consumer. Rachel Wolf, consumer trends reporter at
the Wall Street Journal, Thank you very much for joining us.
Thanks so much for having me. That's it for today.
Join us on social media at Daily Dive Pod on
(19:35):
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Allow us and I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you
get your podcast. This episode of The Daily Dives produced
by baper Right and engineered by Tony Sorrentina. Hi'm Oscar Ramirez,
and this was your Daily Dive
It's Friday, December nine. I'm Oscar Ramirez in Los Angeles
and this is the Daily Dive. The Biden administration struck
a deal with Russia to free w n b A
star Britney Griner. In exchange for her freedom, the US
released arms dealer Vigor Bout, who was known as the
Merchant of Death. This caps a ten month or deal
(00:22):
for Grinder after she was arrested for possession of hash
oil cartridges in Russia. Alex Ward, national security reporter at Politico,
joins US for what to know about her release and
what happens to Paul Wheeling, another American and Russian custody
for espionage charge. Next, the chip manufacturing boom in the
US is just beginning. This week, President Biden toward a
(00:43):
Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing company plant in Arizona that is trickling
its investments to build new semi conductor chips. As the
relationship between China, Taiwan and the US continues to be strained,
we are rushing to build our own local supply. Matt Phillips,
market correspondent at Axios joined US for how the U
S semiconductor industry is just starting Finally, more businesses are
(01:06):
getting rid of their customer service reps you can reach
by phone and increasingly offering options such as chat boxes
to resolve issues. For many companies, it is cost prohibitive
to maintain staff just to answer calls. Rachel Wolf, Consumer
Trends report at The Wall Street Journal joins us for
why connecting with the human is almost impossible. It's news
without the noise. Let's dive in. This is a day
(01:32):
we've worked toward for a long time. We never stopped
pushing for her release. It took painstaking, the intense negotiations,
and I want to thank all the hard working public
servants across my administration who worked tirelessly to secure her release.
Joining us now was Alex Ward, national security reporter at Politico.
Thanks for joining us, Alex, thanks for having me well.
(01:54):
On Thursday, we saw Russia free w n B, a
star Britney grinder. This was a high profile prisoner exchange.
On our side, we released the Russian arms dealer Victor About.
He's known as the Merchant of Death for the arms
dealing that he was doing. The administration has been working
on this for some time, like some ten months that
they've been trying to get this deal done, and finally
(02:16):
they were able to bring Brittany Grinder home. Alex, tell
us what we know about what happened with this. So,
as you rightually noted, this has been really going on
these negotiations since Griner was detained in February for having
you hash oil in her bag at a Moscow airport.
And what they've been really trying to do with a
being the Biden administration was trade effectively two Americans Grinder
(02:38):
and Paul Wheeland, a farmer marine who has been detained
in Russia for four years unproven charges of espionage in
exchange for Victor about who, as you said, was the
merchant of death and he has been charged in the
US with trying to kill Americans as well as aiding
the Taliban Afghanistan, recruiting child soldiers, mutilation, et cetera. I mean,
not not a great time. But the Russians pushed back
(03:00):
on this too for one deal, saying it really needed
to be Grinder for Boot. The decision basically came to
Biden the last couple of weeks saying, look with the
Russian this is where the Russians are. They will not
budge from this it's basically either Grinder come home or
no one comes home. And Biden decided to make the
decision to do the one for one deal, grant clemency
(03:21):
to boot who was going to be in prison until
and make this deal in the UAE where they were
exchanged at an Abu Dhabi. So that's sort of what
happened here, and that's why Britney Grinders, as we speak
at this moment, flying back to the United States and
the difficult decision that went into this. Right, what are
people saying, you know, is this a lopsided deal? Because
(03:42):
as you mentioned, you you detailed about and all the
stuff that he was done, known as the Merchant of Death.
You know, Britney Grinder obviously a basketball star, but we
had this whole thing that happened with Russia and Ukraine.
There was you know, saying that she was a political pond.
You know, what are people saying about the deal that
was made? Well, I mean there is a bit of
concern because look, I mean there are many people who
(04:05):
are saying it is a basketball star in exchange for
an extremely prominent and likely dangerous man. They are not equivalent, right,
and so because of that, there is concerned that maybe
the US gave up too much an exchange for Grinder
as just as our cause. Maybe, And of course it
is not on the Biden administration, but any administration's policy
to work as diligently and as hard as possible to
(04:27):
bring any American rosidly detained abroad home. And so you
have to imagine the Biden administration had a tough decision
to me to try to call Russia as bluff. Is
it possible? You know that if we decided to keep
Brittany in Russia, could we get Grinder and we land
for boot down the line. The administration decided not to
take that risk. They decided to do the eel on
the table, which was one for one. But now you
(04:49):
see the administration not really speaking to legitimate questions about
what are the security concern now that food is freed.
All you really heard Karine Jean Pierre, the White House
Press Sect Terry say is Biden considered the security risks
and did not take the decision lightly indicating that there
are some security risks now that Buddhist street. But we're
just not clear what those may be. As far as
(05:11):
Paul Wheel and what we're hearing. You know, his family
did speak out, they said it sucks that he couldn't
come home too, but it still was the right decision. Yes,
but you also haven't heard from Paul Whelan himself say
you know why am I still sitting here? So he
is angry. And I talked to Elizabeth's wheel and his
sister who said, look, he's just trying to be remembered.
You know, who wouldn't be upset. And we have to
remember that in April, the US was able to release
(05:33):
Trevor Read, another former marine, but did not bring Paul
Whelan Holmes. So that's now twice this year that another
American hostage in Russia has come home, but Paul Wheeland
has stayed in prison, and so he's he's naturally asking,
you know, why not me? You know, why am I
still here? And so yes, you know, when you talk
to the Wheeland family, they will say, of course, you know,
are we happy about bringing Reading returned? Of course, every
(05:54):
you know, every American should returned home. But they are
understandably upset, and as is Paul understandably upset um that
Paul Whilland still remains in a Russian prison. Stuff. The
situations were obviously different. Britney Grinder had drugs on her.
She the these hash oil cartridges. Paul Whelan's in there
for espionage, that's what they they got him on. And
obviously he you know, he's saying, hey, I was this
(06:14):
is completely untrue all that. So obviously the situations are different.
Do we have any indication of what Russia wants for
Paul Wheelan? Now, well, we've heard that they would like
a Russian who is currently detained in Germany, who is
there charged with killing a Georgian citizen in twenty nineteen.
There's also been talking that the Russians would like the
(06:35):
US to hand over a Russian spy to them, but
the US that says that it is not and she
does not detain one, there's not one to give. So,
you know, it's unclear if maybe the US was talking
to Germany and the Germans didn't want to give up
that Russian, or the U s isn't being fourth right,
or there really isn't someone to trade. But this is
sort of complicating the issue, right because there were a
(06:57):
lot of people that were saying the price should be
very high for it should be Grinder and Wheeland. The
fact that grinder's you know, no longer on the table,
that she's you know, gratefully and rightfully coming home. You
know that that makes it harder, very likely to bring
Paul Wheeland home. It's unclear what else the US could
give at this point. There may be some other deal
they're working on. I mean, Paul Whelan's lawyer in in
(07:17):
Russia seems pretty optimistic that there might be a deal
down the line. Elizabeth Wheeland again, paul sister told me
that the way that the Russians were providing paula phone
to call the family in the morning, which is a
rare time. The access to US officials gave her the
sense that maybe the Russians are trying to loosen up
a little bit on Paul. But that, of course remains
(07:37):
to be seen. It is completely unclear. They could just
be more open now because of course there's there was
a big deal just made. Alex Ward, national security reporter
at Politico, thank you very much for joining us. Absolutely
what's happening now is a bit more conser earn less
(08:01):
about sort of access to any chips, and more concern
about specifically relying on a small country like Taiwan that
is increasingly imperiled by China. Joining US now is Matt Phillips,
Markets correspondent at Axios. Thanks for joining us, Matt, thanks
for having me. Let's talk about the US chip industry
(08:21):
right now and how the boom is just going to
be getting started right now. So we obviously know what
happened throughout the pandemic. We saw semiconductors and computer chips
just really lacking of setting us back with new car
construction and a whole host of industries, and uh, you know,
we saw a growing need to kind of do it
for ourselves here in the United States. We were getting
(08:42):
a ton of chips from Taiwan. I think they, you know,
one of the companies there are manufacturers over half of
the world's chips, and we said, hey, we need to
get this done over here. So this week we saw
the President Biden travel to Arizona to one of these
chip companies as they kind of kicked off this plant
and really just increase the manufacturing of this stuff. So
what are we seeing with all this map. There's kind
(09:04):
of two separate things that we're seeing. We all remember
the shortages of chips that we saw after the COVID reopening.
Began and it became so expensive to try to find
cars and spiraled into a whole bunch of other products.
So that's one thing that's a bit more of an
inconvenience type issue. What's going on in Arizona is really
interesting because that's a bit more strategic. It's a bit
(09:26):
less about having an easy, steady supply of relatively low
value chips to put in things like cars. It's more
about the really high end, cutting edge chips that we
rely on for technologies that are really important for cell
phones but also for national security applications. So what's happening
(09:48):
now is a bit more concern less about sort of
access to any chips and more concern about specifically relying
on a small country like Taiwan that is increasingly imperiled
by China. Like that's kind of what's going on with
this one. Yeah, and tell us a little bit more
about that front right now, because we do get a
lot of chips from Taiwan, but we're seeing the tensions
(10:10):
that are happening between China and Taiwan even and uh,
you know, we don't want to get kind of lost
in the shuffle there, that's right, you know, we're living
in an interesting time where really, since the end of
the Cold War, the assumptions that global business leaders operated
with were that goods, people, capital could all largely flow
(10:33):
across borders relatively easily. War was kind of a thing
of the past of the twentieth century, and we could
basically all put that behind us and focus on building
these really sprawling networks of supply chains all around the
world that could deliver really really high end products at
are really low price. That kind of era is increasingly
(10:55):
looking like it's over. Between the war and Ukraine, with
Russia's invasion and the really extreme response that we saw
to Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan, where China was really
for the first time doing exercises about how to enforce
a blockade of Taiwan. It's really not lost on business
(11:15):
leaders and political leaders that we really need to have
access to some of these super high end chips, you know,
within the United States, you know, within our own control,
because as what we've seen, like Germany built its entire
economy around having a relatively steady flow of access to
Russian natural gas. Now that's over, you know, and they
can then the economy is really struggling to figure out
(11:37):
how to adjust to that. So we're trying to not
to make those kind of strategic missteps, and that's a
big part of what's going on. And it was interesting
when we saw President Biden traveling to Arizona earlier in
the week. They said, hey, why are you traveling to
a border state without actually visiting the border, and he said, something,
you know, we got other big things to do there,
and so this was what that trip was tell us
a little bit about what they're going to be doing
(11:59):
there in Arizona. They're going to be creating a lot
of jobs, and then obviously what we're talking about, you know,
hopefully uh creating a lot of these high value chips
that we need. The actual plant that he was visiting
is being opened by Taiwan Semi Conductor. They're arguably the
biggest producer of chips in the world and have about
fifty percent of the share of what's called foundry business
(12:22):
that's essentially contract chip making for other companies, and they
produced some of the world's most sophisticated chips. And previously
we relied on their operations in Taiwan, and as we
said before, that's looking like that island of twenty three
million people next to this one point four billion population
behemoth is looking increasingly imperiled. So the government passed this
(12:45):
act in August. Biden signed it into law. It's called
the Chips and Science Act, and that includes about fifty
billion dollars in subsidies to try to coax these chip
manufacturing plants to build new plants all around the US.
And that's really been happening. A couple in Arizona, actually,
Kaiwan Semi Conductor basically tripled the size of their original
(13:06):
investment that they announced um yesterday, so they're gonna be
spending about forty billion dollars there. Samsung, which is a
big Korean chip maker they're talking about me be spending
two billion dollars building out there basically chip making enterprise
in you in and around Austin, Texas area. So I mean,
it's really a huge amount of business that it could,
(13:26):
you know, go into the U. S. Economy. It's great news,
it's jobs that will stay here. But uh, and you
made the mention at the end of the article too,
it's still going to take a long time to kind
of ramp that up. So while it's great that we're
doing it now. Really, that shift and balances are going
to happen for some time as you need to build
out these things really get things rolling, yeah, for sure.
And it requires a lot of highly trained people. So
(13:48):
people have to be trained up. I mean literally, we
make zero of these kinds of chips and the United
seats right now, so they're going to have to bring
in a lot of people from Taiwan to train Americans
on how to make these things, how to operate the machine.
We had to install the machinery. So it's a huge
long term investment, but hopefully one that will result in
steady jobs and economic and national security. Matt Phillips, markets
(14:12):
correspondent at Axios, thank you very much for joining us.
Thanks so much for having me. Everybody is comfortable with
an online tool. It's not great for everything, and so
you know, there are about consumers that upset that they've
(14:34):
run into issues not being able to find a phone number,
not being able to get in touch with a real
person at a company over the past year. Joining us
now is Rachel Wolf, consumer trends reporter at The Wall
Street Journal. Thanks for joining us, Rachel, Thanks much for
having me. Let's talk about customer service and how important
it is obviously, you know when businesses are interacting with
(14:54):
customers that a lot of them pride themselves on great
customer service as consumers who really very much appreciate ate that.
But we're starting to see it's that it's a lot
of businesses are starting to make their phone numbers a
lot harder to find or getting rid of them altogether,
where you can want, you know, call a company, call
a business and get something taken care of. A lot
of them are switching over to chat bots, they're switching
(15:17):
over to other virtual systems, and sometimes it's not the
easiest thing to communicate through. So, Rachel, what are we
seeing with this? Yeah, you know, you're exactly right that
a lot of companies are moving to take down their
phone numbers, hide them on their website, and just generally
make it a lot more difficult to get in touch
with the real person on the other end. Yeah, and
(15:40):
we're seeing places like Frontier Airlines, Breeze Airways, the reservation
platform RESI, Facebook, a lot of these places have done
away with those phone numbers. So what does the reasoning
behind that? What are they looking to do with it?
You know, it's a labor calculation. It's all about the
money as always, but it's expensive to have people manning
(16:00):
the phones and answering every little customer request that comes up.
Some data shows that somebody can respond to three people
at once on a chat who is on the other
side of a chat box, versus obviously can only talk
to one person at once on the phone, and so
it's a cost saving. There was a morning Console poll
(16:20):
that they conducted for for the Wall Street Journal saying
about half of the respondent said that I guess they're
they're not completely sold on just kind of this digital
only help that you know, most of them do want
somebody to be able to communicate with totally. People still
like talking to somebody else on the phone. Sometimes it
really is just the fastest, most convenient way to get
(16:41):
something done. Not in a hundred percent of cases. You know,
when an online tool works, it really works. But you know, ideally,
I think companies recognize that you've got to offer both
and meet customers where they're at. Not everybody is comfortable
with an online tool. It's not great for everything, and
so you know, there are about a two percentage consumers
(17:01):
that upset that they've run into issues not being able
to find a phone number, not being able to get
in touch with a real person at a company over
the past year. Restaurants in particular are one of those
things that you mentioned earlier, right, It's about those cost
calculations and head count A lot of times, restaurants in particular,
when we've talked about it before, coming out of the
pandemic and still struggling with hiring workers, you know, they said,
(17:23):
you know, we can't have somebody just manning a phone
all day taking reservations. We need them busy doing other things.
So then this particular case, I found it very easy
to make a lot of online reservations, but you know,
when you need to talk to somebody, smooth something over,
find some alternatives, that's kind of where the difficulty lies
when you're dealing with restaurants exactly. And you know, I
spoke to a great restaurant owner who explained it really well.
(17:45):
And you know what they're doing is they say you
can only make a reservation online for the month of December.
You can still call for something else, like if you're
trying to plan a party or if you have a
food allergy. But if you're looking to change a reservation
or make a reservation. You have to use the online
reservation systems. And you said, you know, we would love
to be able to also offer it on the phone,
(18:06):
but you know, we could staff an entire call center
and we can't. You know, being dramatic, of course, we
wouldn't be able to keep up with demand the phone.
It's just bringing off the hook and you know, we
just we can't. He was the one who said, we
can't pay somebody just to answer the phone. I already
has the staff with two hundred, paying a lot of
people to do a lot of different things. But it
shows it's not easy for businesses either. And to the
(18:27):
point of all, this customer service is so important and
if it doesn't go right, you know they're those consumers
are gonna maybe not do business with you. You did
speak to somebody who tried to fix something with an
airline for her mom, and it didn't really go well.
They couldn't really get it. I think they ended up
fixing it on Facebook, Messenger or something, and they said,
you know, this is going to make us not fly
(18:49):
with that airline for some time, just because of how
bad that situation was. Exactly, yes, she was dealing with
it for five hours, and it was a family emergency
that had come up and needed to change a flight,
and she just needed to talk to somebody in Frontier
last month announced that they would no longer be offering
phone service at all. So it's pretty dramatic, um, and
(19:12):
you know in this in this instance, it was pretty
frustrating with this consumer. Rachel Wolf, consumer trends reporter at
the Wall Street Journal, Thank you very much for joining us.
Thanks so much for having me. That's it for today.
Join us on social media at Daily Dive Pod on
(19:35):
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Allow us and I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you
get your podcast. This episode of The Daily Dives produced
by baper Right and engineered by Tony Sorrentina. Hi'm Oscar Ramirez,
and this was your Daily Dive
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