December 12, 2022 • 19 mins
Shakeup for the Democrats in the Senate. After clinching a 51-49 majority with Raphael Warnock’s win in Georgia, Sen. Krysten Sinema announced she would be leaving the Democratic party and register as an Independent. While the impact may be minimal when trying to pass legislation, it means a lot when we look ahead to 2024 and how the two parties will fight to win that seat. Julia Manchester, national political reporter at The Hill, joins us for how this decision plays out, Kari Lake files an election lawsuit in Arizona, and the big fight of the week, Congress struggling to fund the government and avoid a shutdown.
Next, a look into the hyper competitive world of body building and the extremes it takes to get those outrageous physiques. There is hours and hours of training, strict diets, and then there are the drugs… steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. It is leaving athletes with irreparable damage to their bodies, with some having heart problems, needing kidney transplants, and worst-case, death. Jenn Abelson, investigative reporter at the Washington Post, joins us for how the extreme sport of bodybuilding is pushing some to the edge.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Monday, December twelve. I'm Oscar Rameriors in Los Angeles,
and this is the daily dive shake up for the
Democrats in the Senate. After clinching a forty nine majority
with Raphael WARNOCKX win in Georgia, Senator Christen Cinema announced
she would be leaving the Democratic Party and register as
(00:20):
an independent. While the impact may be minimal when trying
to pass legislation, it means a lot when we look
ahead to four and how the two parties will fight
to win that seat. Julia Manchester, national political reporter at
the Hill, joins us for how this decision plays out.
Carry Lake files an election lawsuit in Arizona, and the
big fight of the week, Congress struggling to fund the
(00:41):
government and avoid a shut down. Next, a look into
the hyper competitive world of bodybuilding and the extremes it
takes to get those outrageous physiques. There's hours and hours
of training, strict diets, and then there are the drugs
steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. It's leaving athletes with
irreparable damage to their bodies, with some having heart problems,
(01:01):
needing kidney transplants, and worst case debt Jen Abelson, investigative
reporter at the Washington Post, joined us for how the
extreme sport of bodybuilding is pushing some to the edge.
It's news without the noise. Let's dive in. This should
be no surprise to focus across Arizona. I've been serving
as an independent voice for our state for quite some time.
(01:22):
Just made it official with a party registration change. Joining
us now is Julia Manchester, national political reporter at the Hill.
Thanks for joining us, Julia, Thanks for having me. Well,
we got some interesting news this past week as Senator
Christen Cinema decided that she was going to leave the
Democratic Party and register as an independent. So we also
(01:43):
got the news obviously that Raphael Warnock secured his Senate seat.
They're giving Democrats a fifty one to forty nine advantage
there in the Senate, So now this kind of throws
a bunch of stuff into the air. We don't know
how Kristen Cinema is going to be voting with Democrats now.
This also kind of throws a curveball into the Senate
race for Julie. What are we seeing with this decision
(02:06):
by Christian Cinema? Yeah, yeah, look, I think in a way,
this was a surprise, and that um, you know, we
just didn't know when she was going to do this.
But a lot of political watchers, Republicans and Democrats already
considered here Cin Cinema to be an independent in many ways,
she very much bucks her own party most of the time,
(02:27):
and she you know, has you know, very much sometimes
sided with the Republicans, but she will side with Democrats
as well. So I think the fact, you know, when
it came was a bit of a surprise because it
just the announcement came days after Democrats secured that you know,
fifty one seat majority. Now what lately won't impact dealmaking
in the Senate and you know, business in the Senate
(02:49):
Um since here since Cinema has said she will keep
her uh committee assignments, which you know, would suggest she
will caucus with Democrats, sort of like Angus King and
Bernie Sanders caucus with them. The question is, how does
this impact the Senate race in Arizona. We don't know
whether she's going to run again for re election, and
she did run, she'd have to run as an independent
(03:10):
in the Democrats presumably would have to nominate another UM
candidate in that race. So that's really where the big
question is. Yeah, and then you know, we're also looking
She made an appearance on CNN over the weekend talking
a lot about the border, saying the federal government has
failed the southern border. There. Um, obviously a big issue
(03:31):
that Republicans take very closely. So just an interesting look
at how you know, the next couple of years will
go for her switching over to being an independent staying
in Arizona. I did want to mention very quickly Republican
Kerry Lake there. She was running for governor against Katie Hobbs.
She lost that race. Arizona has already certified those election results,
(03:54):
but keeping with the president former president Trump playbook, she
has filed a lawsuit now saying that she received the
greatest number of votes and that she's entitled to be
named the winner. How far is this thing going to get?
It likely will not get far in Arizona. We see that, Um,
you know, very clearly Katie Hopps won even though it
(04:15):
was a very narrow majority. And um, you know, multiple officials,
Republicans and Democrats have you know, agreed with you know,
the voters decision in that case. What this show is
is Essentially, Carrie Lake is keeping with President Trump's playbook
and contesting the elections. It likely will not go far.
It will be taken to the courts. But this isn't
(04:35):
going to be UM. You know, it likely will not
be successful because we've seen so much support for you know,
the election results right exactly, and you know, that's largely
one of those things we've seen a lot of people
move on from now. People a little tired of that
old playbook. We saw a bunch of backers of President
Trump and people that he was supporting lose in the
(04:55):
mid term elections. Uh. It seems by and large like
most people are kind of over that. But you know,
we'll see if this does anything. I didn't want to
talk about what's going to be happening this coming week.
So Congress has to pass a funding bill by Friday
to avoid a government shutdown. UM, it looks like there,
you know, might not be as close as some may want.
They're probably have to pass a CR a continuing resolution
(05:19):
is what they call it, to continue funding the government
while they work out a deal. And I guess Democrats
want to attach some type of election reform bill to
this bill. UM, just to be able to sneak it
in before the end of the year basically, So this
is kind of the impasse that the Senators are at,
our Congress is at right now, right right, and this
is you know, probably one of the last big things
(05:42):
we've seen we get to see don in this Lane
duck Congress. I mean, we've already seen the Respect for
Marriage Act passed through you know, both chambers, and we
are seeing um, you know, Nancy Pelosi and Democrats really
trying to pass as much as they can before Republicans
come in and take the majority in the House. It
normally happens in the lane duck session when you have
these continuing resolutions and these bills to fund the government. Um.
(06:06):
You know, right now, I think you're you're going to
see maybe some pushback from conservatives um in the House
on this pushing back. But um, you know, we'll we'll
have to see what's more in this legislation. Democrats will
definitely want to speak the sneak in that election reform um,
you know that measure in here, Um, you know, to
make a final statement, like I said, before Republicans take over. Yeah,
(06:28):
And that election reform bill is basically designed to help
prevent another January six, it will make it harder for
losing candidates to claim victory. One of the interesting things
on this one, though, is you mentioned it right. Republicans
are going to be coming to power in the House.
So there's a lot of pushback from House minority leader,
soon to possibly be majority leader, Kevin McCarthy, and you
(06:50):
know he's trying to urge uh, the Senate minority leader,
Mitch McConnell to walk away from this deal. He says, hey,
let's wait until we come into power. Then we have
much more to go shading uh leverage there. And so
this is kind of the game that's being played with this, uh,
this whole thing right now. Yeah, yeah, and we'll have
to see. I mean, it is possible that someone like
Mitch McConnell may want to start off the year next
(07:12):
year with a clean slate, not having to deal with
you know this, you know, kicking the can down the
road with funding the government. Um. But you know, Kevin
McCarthy very much trying to push back, and he himself
is you know, under a lot of pressure right now
as he potentially could become speaker because he is facing
pushback within his own party. We know that conservative Congressman
(07:33):
Andy Biggs has launched a challenge against him for the speakership,
so you know he's trying to I guess walk of
fine line to use that cliche. Um, you know, as
they prepare to take the majority and you know start
off um, you know the next year. Yeah, alright, well,
we'll see the this week. The fight to fund the
government will be one of the big stories will be following.
(07:55):
Julia Manchester, National political reporter at The Hill, Thank you
very much for joining us. Thank you for having me.
They're using fat burners that are really meant as medication
for horses. They're using you know, underground sometimes unknown substances
(08:18):
from labs online or labs, and you know that they're
finding things from China, and it's really left athletes in
a fairly vulnerable position. Joining us now is Jen Abelson,
investigative reporter at the Washington Post. Thanks for joining us, Jen,
Thanks for having me. Well there at the Washington Post,
you and some colleagues are are doing investigation into the
world of bodybuilding. I have to say I've read through
(08:41):
a few of these already, and men, is it a
crazy world there, And you know, you kind of see
it if you're seeing it on TV or in pictures whatever,
you you know, it's an extreme sport already, the amount
of preparation and dedication that a lot of these athletes
go through to get the physiques that they come out with.
But the world behind it is so interesting, and a
(09:02):
lot of it is plagued by steroids and diuretics play
a huge part in this and this kind of body
building under the umbrella of health and fitness, but some
of these people are just not healthy when they're going
through it. So Jen tell us a little bit. Start
us off by telling us about Built and Broken, the
investigative series, and then we'll get into some more specific things,
(09:23):
like you I didn't. I knew very little about the
body building world before I joined this investigation, and it
began out of a tip from a colleague's father. Um
was very involved in the bodybuilding world as a he
had helped was involved in making pumping iron back in
the seventies, and sort of had gotten a tip after
his father died about some some really um you know,
(09:46):
potentially devastating allegations about the world. And so we sort
of launched into this investigation into different areas looking at
sexual exploitation of women in my area, focused on looking
at the health risks to athletes, and so that is
the air you that I sort of really dug into,
and it was really eye opening to really understand the
(10:06):
intimate details of what these athletes do in order to
be prepared to compete. Yeah, and that health aspect obviously
super interesting. I mean, it gets to the point that
some of these athletes are dying because of the supplements,
these steroids, all the things that they're taking to prepare
for competitions and to get those physiques. You know, there's
so many You have a lot of examples in your
(10:27):
piece on this where there's signs that these athletes are
going through I'm experiencing cramping, I'm you know, i haven't
had a drink of water in hours. But still they
push forward, and you know, with the help and encouragement
of their coaches, which is another whole angle to this,
they're really doing a lot of damage to their bodies
in a lot of cases. Yeah, I think one of
the things that really struck us is just the way
(10:48):
is in which is really distinct from other professional sports,
in that at the when they are ready to compete,
when they're going to get on stage and be judged.
It is when they are at their weakest and most
fragile state they have been, you know, depleting, dehydrating themselves.
They're incredibly lean. When we first started looking into this,
there was a lot of focus on and talk around
(11:08):
just steroids. But it's so much more than the steroids
they're doing. There's this whole host and cocktail of dangerous
performance enhancing drugs. They're using fat burners that are really
meant as medication for horses. They're using you know, underground
sometimes unknown substances from labs online or labs, and you
know that they're finding things from China, and it's really
left athletes in a fairly vulnerable position. In addition to
(11:31):
the steroids and the drugs and the supplements, it's like
the severe dieting and the diuretics and the training hours
of cardio a day. Yeah, the diuretics is an interesting
part of it too, because you know they're taking this
to remove water so their muscles look quote unquote dry,
more defined, And I mean that's one of the biggest
health problems that people get left with kidney issues because
you're just depleting your body of liquids. Yeah, we've seen
(11:54):
some UM. You know, a number of athletes over the
year who have suffered severe kidney problems, have had kidney transplants,
sometimes multiple kidney transplants, UM and and athletes have died
because of diuretic overdose as well, and that was the case.
There was suggestion that that was likely the cause of UM.
There was an athlete in two thousand thirteen. Her name
was Terry Harris. She was had two days after competing
(12:18):
in her first professional bodybuilding show in Tampa, Florida. She
went into cardiac arrest on a stair master and the
corner you know, said an electrolyte disturbance could not be
ruled out. She was having severe cramping before the show.
And there was another athlete that we talked to, Jody
angel Um, who's still alive, but she's thirty one, she's
(12:38):
a single mom. She's but she's facing a lifetime of
kidney issues and her doctors have told her that she's
going to need a transplant. Talk to me a little
bit about the coaches and their involvement in all of this,
because in a lot of times they're pushing the athletes
to obviously pushed their bodies to the limit, but they're
also giving them the access to the the steroids and
and other things that they're giving them the dosage that
(13:00):
they should be taking. A lot of times they're not
necessarily licensed for that. You know, they're just coaches. Maybe
they've done it in the past for themselves, and so
they're just giving them a lot of advice and and
really pushing them to keep on track to a lot
of these programs. Yeah, I think what's really interesting is
there's just a whole various levels of accountability. I mean,
at the end of the day, you know, these these
athletes are saying, you know, I took the drugs. I
(13:21):
personally am responsible for what I put in my body. However,
I will tell you that I was relying on people
who I thought were experts. I was paying them for
advice on what I need to do to win. And
what they're being told to do by these coaches and
by the judges who are ultimately rewarding them, is that
they're being advised to take, you know, stacking on so
many different steroids, stacking on various performance enhancing drugs and
(13:41):
diuretics and um fat burners and and so and we've
seen both. You know, these people often do not have
any sort of formal training, do not have medical licenses.
They're supplying their clients in some cases with illegal stero
steroids or fat burners. They're they're giving them detailed plans
of how much. We saw Daniel Alexander, his coach in
the days before he was UM. He died of SARA
(14:04):
induced cardio mapthy like he was being told to increase
his doses of windstraw, which is a powerful steroid, and
and other other steroids that he was taking and UM.
It's just when you see this, it's like a laundry
list of drugs. These people are being told to take
UM and sometimes are being advised not to seek medical care.
Daniel Alexander is one of those cases where he was um.
(14:26):
He was concerned about seeking medical care because he was
worried that it was going to ruin his physique, that
he would end up getting filled and pumped with fluid
because like we've been talking about, it's all about coming
and dry and to find and he was worried he
wouldn't be that way if he went and sought medical care.
And ultimately it was a it was a fatal decision.
He ended up dying that overnight. He's such an interesting case.
(14:47):
So he died at age thirty, Daniel Alexander. And you know,
throughout this investigation you were able to access a lot
of text messages and emails and for Daniel and a
lot of other of these athletes too, they have some
similar cases. But Daniel texted a friend who worked as
a nurse practitioner and said, five percent body fat right now.
Lots of stems have a very irregular heartbeat for over
(15:09):
an hour, becoming painful, still hard to breathe worry like
should I be worried? And you know a lot of
times you know you're going contrary to what your own
body is telling you. Just reading that that sounds super worrisome.
But as you mentioned, he didn't want to go to
the doctor, get liquids and ruin what he had been
preparing for. Yeah, I think there's someone described them as
(15:32):
contest blinders, which I think is a good way to
think about it. That they are so focused on winning,
so focused on showing up in a certain condition. They've
spent a lot of time, they spent a lot of money.
These are very expensive sports to compete in that getting
all of these drugs and supplements, and these people talk
about describing it sometimes as an addiction that they're willing
to do whatever it takes in order to win. It
(15:54):
becomes an addiction to see how far they can take
their body um to an extreme, and I think they
sometimes lose sight of like what is the you know,
a potentially life threatening emergency that's happening with their bodies. Now,
body building has been around for a long time, and
you know, the eighties and the nineties was a big
hey day for this, and you know, there was a
(16:15):
lot of steroid use, a lot of diuretics obviously back then.
To what has change or what has stayed the same
since that time, what we've been hearing from the athletes
and coaches and judges is that over time there has
really been this push to an extreme that the bodies.
And there's a great story today by my colleagues that
looks at the science behind what bodybuilders are doing near
(16:36):
their bodies, and you just see them getting bigger and
more massive and trying to build be as lean as
possible and so you know, physiques. There was a story
today was talking about how Arnold would not be able
to win with his condition. Arnold Schwarzenegger would not have
been able to win, you know, the Olympia or other
body building competitions with the physique he showed up. And
you know, back decades ago, people have described it to
(16:58):
me as like a freak show. And coaches when they
brag about their athletes online. There was a coach, Shelby
Starns who um was very well known for working with
female athletes and especially the women the bodybuilding division, which
is like the largest, most extreme of the sport that
goes from bikini to bodybuilding, and he, you know, would
complement his athletes online as freak freak show, freak zoid
(17:19):
and that that is the direction in which the sport
in some instances has gone. Yeah, he worked with Jody Angle,
who you mentioned earlier, who possibly facing kidney transplants and
just long term damage from the programs that she was
set in. What do we know or what have we
heard from the governing bodies for these competitions. You made
mention in the article how they don't really test a
(17:41):
lot of the athletes for some of these substances. What
has their reaction been to all of this? In the US,
the two largest bodybuilding federations. It's the National Physique Committee
runs the amateur and the Inner i FBB PRO is
the the professional division, and they do not do any
kind of routine drug testing at all there it's not
(18:02):
considered a drug tested league. There are certain shows, you know,
certain show promoters may advertise and and promote individual quote
unquote natural shows where they do test, sometimes by polygraph
or sometimes by urine, but by far and away that
that is not the regular at these shows that they
are not subjected to any of it. So they have
essentially opted out of of of knowing what their athletes
(18:25):
are doing in order to show up on stage. UM
there's another major body building federation UM that's based in
Spain that they say that they do drug testing. However,
they were recently sanctioned by the World Anti Doping Agency
for failing to UM you know, spend enough money on
testing and for failing to do effective testing. So and
(18:46):
I think there's other places around the world where it's
it's sort of the people are looking the other way
and kind of turning a blind eye, and so it is.
It is as as Luke Sando's mother, um Luxando is
an athlete from the United Kingdom who died already one
and she said to us, you know, she said, it's
an absolute free for all. There's just real destruction and
devastation and destroyed lives. And I think describing as an
(19:08):
absolute free for all is something I've heard from other
people as well. Jen Abelson, investigative report at the Washington Post.
Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you so
much for having me. That's it for today. Join us
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(19:31):
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your podcasts. This episode of The Daily Dives produced by
Victor Wright and engineered by Tony Sarantino. Hi'm Oscar Ramirez,
and this was your Daily Dive
It's Monday, December twelve. I'm Oscar Rameriors in Los Angeles,
and this is the daily dive shake up for the
Democrats in the Senate. After clinching a forty nine majority
with Raphael WARNOCKX win in Georgia, Senator Christen Cinema announced
she would be leaving the Democratic Party and register as
(00:20):
an independent. While the impact may be minimal when trying
to pass legislation, it means a lot when we look
ahead to four and how the two parties will fight
to win that seat. Julia Manchester, national political reporter at
the Hill, joins us for how this decision plays out.
Carry Lake files an election lawsuit in Arizona, and the
big fight of the week, Congress struggling to fund the
(00:41):
government and avoid a shut down. Next, a look into
the hyper competitive world of bodybuilding and the extremes it
takes to get those outrageous physiques. There's hours and hours
of training, strict diets, and then there are the drugs
steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. It's leaving athletes with
irreparable damage to their bodies, with some having heart problems,
(01:01):
needing kidney transplants, and worst case debt Jen Abelson, investigative
reporter at the Washington Post, joined us for how the
extreme sport of bodybuilding is pushing some to the edge.
It's news without the noise. Let's dive in. This should
be no surprise to focus across Arizona. I've been serving
as an independent voice for our state for quite some time.
(01:22):
Just made it official with a party registration change. Joining
us now is Julia Manchester, national political reporter at the Hill.
Thanks for joining us, Julia, Thanks for having me. Well,
we got some interesting news this past week as Senator
Christen Cinema decided that she was going to leave the
Democratic Party and register as an independent. So we also
(01:43):
got the news obviously that Raphael Warnock secured his Senate seat.
They're giving Democrats a fifty one to forty nine advantage
there in the Senate, So now this kind of throws
a bunch of stuff into the air. We don't know
how Kristen Cinema is going to be voting with Democrats now.
This also kind of throws a curveball into the Senate
race for Julie. What are we seeing with this decision
(02:06):
by Christian Cinema? Yeah, yeah, look, I think in a way,
this was a surprise, and that um, you know, we
just didn't know when she was going to do this.
But a lot of political watchers, Republicans and Democrats already
considered here Cin Cinema to be an independent in many ways,
she very much bucks her own party most of the time,
(02:27):
and she you know, has you know, very much sometimes
sided with the Republicans, but she will side with Democrats
as well. So I think the fact, you know, when
it came was a bit of a surprise because it
just the announcement came days after Democrats secured that you know,
fifty one seat majority. Now what lately won't impact dealmaking
in the Senate and you know, business in the Senate
(02:49):
Um since here since Cinema has said she will keep
her uh committee assignments, which you know, would suggest she
will caucus with Democrats, sort of like Angus King and
Bernie Sanders caucus with them. The question is, how does
this impact the Senate race in Arizona. We don't know
whether she's going to run again for re election, and
she did run, she'd have to run as an independent
(03:10):
in the Democrats presumably would have to nominate another UM
candidate in that race. So that's really where the big
question is. Yeah, and then you know, we're also looking
She made an appearance on CNN over the weekend talking
a lot about the border, saying the federal government has
failed the southern border. There. Um, obviously a big issue
(03:31):
that Republicans take very closely. So just an interesting look
at how you know, the next couple of years will
go for her switching over to being an independent staying
in Arizona. I did want to mention very quickly Republican
Kerry Lake there. She was running for governor against Katie Hobbs.
She lost that race. Arizona has already certified those election results,
(03:54):
but keeping with the president former president Trump playbook, she
has filed a lawsuit now saying that she received the
greatest number of votes and that she's entitled to be
named the winner. How far is this thing going to get?
It likely will not get far in Arizona. We see that, Um,
you know, very clearly Katie Hopps won even though it
(04:15):
was a very narrow majority. And um, you know, multiple officials,
Republicans and Democrats have you know, agreed with you know,
the voters decision in that case. What this show is
is Essentially, Carrie Lake is keeping with President Trump's playbook
and contesting the elections. It likely will not go far.
It will be taken to the courts. But this isn't
(04:35):
going to be UM. You know, it likely will not
be successful because we've seen so much support for you know,
the election results right exactly, and you know, that's largely
one of those things we've seen a lot of people
move on from now. People a little tired of that
old playbook. We saw a bunch of backers of President
Trump and people that he was supporting lose in the
(04:55):
mid term elections. Uh. It seems by and large like
most people are kind of over that. But you know,
we'll see if this does anything. I didn't want to
talk about what's going to be happening this coming week.
So Congress has to pass a funding bill by Friday
to avoid a government shutdown. UM, it looks like there,
you know, might not be as close as some may want.
They're probably have to pass a CR a continuing resolution
(05:19):
is what they call it, to continue funding the government
while they work out a deal. And I guess Democrats
want to attach some type of election reform bill to
this bill. UM, just to be able to sneak it
in before the end of the year basically, So this
is kind of the impasse that the Senators are at,
our Congress is at right now, right right, and this
is you know, probably one of the last big things
(05:42):
we've seen we get to see don in this Lane
duck Congress. I mean, we've already seen the Respect for
Marriage Act passed through you know, both chambers, and we
are seeing um, you know, Nancy Pelosi and Democrats really
trying to pass as much as they can before Republicans
come in and take the majority in the House. It
normally happens in the lane duck session when you have
these continuing resolutions and these bills to fund the government. Um.
(06:06):
You know, right now, I think you're you're going to
see maybe some pushback from conservatives um in the House
on this pushing back. But um, you know, we'll we'll
have to see what's more in this legislation. Democrats will
definitely want to speak the sneak in that election reform um,
you know that measure in here, Um, you know, to
make a final statement, like I said, before Republicans take over. Yeah,
(06:28):
And that election reform bill is basically designed to help
prevent another January six, it will make it harder for
losing candidates to claim victory. One of the interesting things
on this one, though, is you mentioned it right. Republicans
are going to be coming to power in the House.
So there's a lot of pushback from House minority leader,
soon to possibly be majority leader, Kevin McCarthy, and you
(06:50):
know he's trying to urge uh, the Senate minority leader,
Mitch McConnell to walk away from this deal. He says, hey,
let's wait until we come into power. Then we have
much more to go shading uh leverage there. And so
this is kind of the game that's being played with this, uh,
this whole thing right now. Yeah, yeah, and we'll have
to see. I mean, it is possible that someone like
Mitch McConnell may want to start off the year next
(07:12):
year with a clean slate, not having to deal with
you know this, you know, kicking the can down the
road with funding the government. Um. But you know, Kevin
McCarthy very much trying to push back, and he himself
is you know, under a lot of pressure right now
as he potentially could become speaker because he is facing
pushback within his own party. We know that conservative Congressman
(07:33):
Andy Biggs has launched a challenge against him for the speakership,
so you know he's trying to I guess walk of
fine line to use that cliche. Um, you know, as
they prepare to take the majority and you know start
off um, you know the next year. Yeah, alright, well,
we'll see the this week. The fight to fund the
government will be one of the big stories will be following.
(07:55):
Julia Manchester, National political reporter at The Hill, Thank you
very much for joining us. Thank you for having me.
They're using fat burners that are really meant as medication
for horses. They're using you know, underground sometimes unknown substances
(08:18):
from labs online or labs, and you know that they're
finding things from China, and it's really left athletes in
a fairly vulnerable position. Joining us now is Jen Abelson,
investigative reporter at the Washington Post. Thanks for joining us, Jen,
Thanks for having me. Well there at the Washington Post,
you and some colleagues are are doing investigation into the
world of bodybuilding. I have to say I've read through
(08:41):
a few of these already, and men, is it a
crazy world there, And you know, you kind of see
it if you're seeing it on TV or in pictures whatever,
you you know, it's an extreme sport already, the amount
of preparation and dedication that a lot of these athletes
go through to get the physiques that they come out with.
But the world behind it is so interesting, and a
(09:02):
lot of it is plagued by steroids and diuretics play
a huge part in this and this kind of body
building under the umbrella of health and fitness, but some
of these people are just not healthy when they're going
through it. So Jen tell us a little bit. Start
us off by telling us about Built and Broken, the
investigative series, and then we'll get into some more specific things,
(09:23):
like you I didn't. I knew very little about the
body building world before I joined this investigation, and it
began out of a tip from a colleague's father. Um
was very involved in the bodybuilding world as a he
had helped was involved in making pumping iron back in
the seventies, and sort of had gotten a tip after
his father died about some some really um you know,
(09:46):
potentially devastating allegations about the world. And so we sort
of launched into this investigation into different areas looking at
sexual exploitation of women in my area, focused on looking
at the health risks to athletes, and so that is
the air you that I sort of really dug into,
and it was really eye opening to really understand the
(10:06):
intimate details of what these athletes do in order to
be prepared to compete. Yeah, and that health aspect obviously
super interesting. I mean, it gets to the point that
some of these athletes are dying because of the supplements,
these steroids, all the things that they're taking to prepare
for competitions and to get those physiques. You know, there's
so many You have a lot of examples in your
(10:27):
piece on this where there's signs that these athletes are
going through I'm experiencing cramping, I'm you know, i haven't
had a drink of water in hours. But still they
push forward, and you know, with the help and encouragement
of their coaches, which is another whole angle to this,
they're really doing a lot of damage to their bodies
in a lot of cases. Yeah, I think one of
the things that really struck us is just the way
(10:48):
is in which is really distinct from other professional sports,
in that at the when they are ready to compete,
when they're going to get on stage and be judged.
It is when they are at their weakest and most
fragile state they have been, you know, depleting, dehydrating themselves.
They're incredibly lean. When we first started looking into this,
there was a lot of focus on and talk around
(11:08):
just steroids. But it's so much more than the steroids
they're doing. There's this whole host and cocktail of dangerous
performance enhancing drugs. They're using fat burners that are really
meant as medication for horses. They're using you know, underground
sometimes unknown substances from labs online or labs, and you
know that they're finding things from China, and it's really
left athletes in a fairly vulnerable position. In addition to
(11:31):
the steroids and the drugs and the supplements, it's like
the severe dieting and the diuretics and the training hours
of cardio a day. Yeah, the diuretics is an interesting
part of it too, because you know they're taking this
to remove water so their muscles look quote unquote dry,
more defined, And I mean that's one of the biggest
health problems that people get left with kidney issues because
you're just depleting your body of liquids. Yeah, we've seen
(11:54):
some UM. You know, a number of athletes over the
year who have suffered severe kidney problems, have had kidney transplants,
sometimes multiple kidney transplants, UM and and athletes have died
because of diuretic overdose as well, and that was the case.
There was suggestion that that was likely the cause of UM.
There was an athlete in two thousand thirteen. Her name
was Terry Harris. She was had two days after competing
(12:18):
in her first professional bodybuilding show in Tampa, Florida. She
went into cardiac arrest on a stair master and the
corner you know, said an electrolyte disturbance could not be
ruled out. She was having severe cramping before the show.
And there was another athlete that we talked to, Jody
angel Um, who's still alive, but she's thirty one, she's
(12:38):
a single mom. She's but she's facing a lifetime of
kidney issues and her doctors have told her that she's
going to need a transplant. Talk to me a little
bit about the coaches and their involvement in all of this,
because in a lot of times they're pushing the athletes
to obviously pushed their bodies to the limit, but they're
also giving them the access to the the steroids and
and other things that they're giving them the dosage that
(13:00):
they should be taking. A lot of times they're not
necessarily licensed for that. You know, they're just coaches. Maybe
they've done it in the past for themselves, and so
they're just giving them a lot of advice and and
really pushing them to keep on track to a lot
of these programs. Yeah, I think what's really interesting is
there's just a whole various levels of accountability. I mean,
at the end of the day, you know, these these
athletes are saying, you know, I took the drugs. I
(13:21):
personally am responsible for what I put in my body. However,
I will tell you that I was relying on people
who I thought were experts. I was paying them for
advice on what I need to do to win. And
what they're being told to do by these coaches and
by the judges who are ultimately rewarding them, is that
they're being advised to take, you know, stacking on so
many different steroids, stacking on various performance enhancing drugs and
(13:41):
diuretics and um fat burners and and so and we've
seen both. You know, these people often do not have
any sort of formal training, do not have medical licenses.
They're supplying their clients in some cases with illegal stero
steroids or fat burners. They're they're giving them detailed plans
of how much. We saw Daniel Alexander, his coach in
the days before he was UM. He died of SARA
(14:04):
induced cardio mapthy like he was being told to increase
his doses of windstraw, which is a powerful steroid, and
and other other steroids that he was taking and UM.
It's just when you see this, it's like a laundry
list of drugs. These people are being told to take
UM and sometimes are being advised not to seek medical care.
Daniel Alexander is one of those cases where he was um.
(14:26):
He was concerned about seeking medical care because he was
worried that it was going to ruin his physique, that
he would end up getting filled and pumped with fluid
because like we've been talking about, it's all about coming
and dry and to find and he was worried he
wouldn't be that way if he went and sought medical care.
And ultimately it was a it was a fatal decision.
He ended up dying that overnight. He's such an interesting case.
(14:47):
So he died at age thirty, Daniel Alexander. And you know,
throughout this investigation you were able to access a lot
of text messages and emails and for Daniel and a
lot of other of these athletes too, they have some
similar cases. But Daniel texted a friend who worked as
a nurse practitioner and said, five percent body fat right now.
Lots of stems have a very irregular heartbeat for over
(15:09):
an hour, becoming painful, still hard to breathe worry like
should I be worried? And you know a lot of
times you know you're going contrary to what your own
body is telling you. Just reading that that sounds super worrisome.
But as you mentioned, he didn't want to go to
the doctor, get liquids and ruin what he had been
preparing for. Yeah, I think there's someone described them as
(15:32):
contest blinders, which I think is a good way to
think about it. That they are so focused on winning,
so focused on showing up in a certain condition. They've
spent a lot of time, they spent a lot of money.
These are very expensive sports to compete in that getting
all of these drugs and supplements, and these people talk
about describing it sometimes as an addiction that they're willing
to do whatever it takes in order to win. It
(15:54):
becomes an addiction to see how far they can take
their body um to an extreme, and I think they
sometimes lose sight of like what is the you know,
a potentially life threatening emergency that's happening with their bodies. Now,
body building has been around for a long time, and
you know, the eighties and the nineties was a big
hey day for this, and you know, there was a
(16:15):
lot of steroid use, a lot of diuretics obviously back then.
To what has change or what has stayed the same
since that time, what we've been hearing from the athletes
and coaches and judges is that over time there has
really been this push to an extreme that the bodies.
And there's a great story today by my colleagues that
looks at the science behind what bodybuilders are doing near
(16:36):
their bodies, and you just see them getting bigger and
more massive and trying to build be as lean as
possible and so you know, physiques. There was a story
today was talking about how Arnold would not be able
to win with his condition. Arnold Schwarzenegger would not have
been able to win, you know, the Olympia or other
body building competitions with the physique he showed up. And
you know, back decades ago, people have described it to
(16:58):
me as like a freak show. And coaches when they
brag about their athletes online. There was a coach, Shelby
Starns who um was very well known for working with
female athletes and especially the women the bodybuilding division, which
is like the largest, most extreme of the sport that
goes from bikini to bodybuilding, and he, you know, would
complement his athletes online as freak freak show, freak zoid
(17:19):
and that that is the direction in which the sport
in some instances has gone. Yeah, he worked with Jody Angle,
who you mentioned earlier, who possibly facing kidney transplants and
just long term damage from the programs that she was
set in. What do we know or what have we
heard from the governing bodies for these competitions. You made
mention in the article how they don't really test a
(17:41):
lot of the athletes for some of these substances. What
has their reaction been to all of this? In the US,
the two largest bodybuilding federations. It's the National Physique Committee
runs the amateur and the Inner i FBB PRO is
the the professional division, and they do not do any
kind of routine drug testing at all there it's not
(18:02):
considered a drug tested league. There are certain shows, you know,
certain show promoters may advertise and and promote individual quote
unquote natural shows where they do test, sometimes by polygraph
or sometimes by urine, but by far and away that
that is not the regular at these shows that they
are not subjected to any of it. So they have
essentially opted out of of of knowing what their athletes
(18:25):
are doing in order to show up on stage. UM
there's another major body building federation UM that's based in
Spain that they say that they do drug testing. However,
they were recently sanctioned by the World Anti Doping Agency
for failing to UM you know, spend enough money on
testing and for failing to do effective testing. So and
(18:46):
I think there's other places around the world where it's
it's sort of the people are looking the other way
and kind of turning a blind eye, and so it is.
It is as as Luke Sando's mother, um Luxando is
an athlete from the United Kingdom who died already one
and she said to us, you know, she said, it's
an absolute free for all. There's just real destruction and
devastation and destroyed lives. And I think describing as an
(19:08):
absolute free for all is something I've heard from other
people as well. Jen Abelson, investigative report at the Washington Post.
Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you so
much for having me. That's it for today. Join us
on social media at Daily Dive Pod on both Twitter
(19:31):
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your podcasts. This episode of The Daily Dives produced by
Victor Wright and engineered by Tony Sarantino. Hi'm Oscar Ramirez,
and this was your Daily Dive
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