May 1, 2024 • 58 mins
Jake has brought Foolish Bailey and Jolly Olive together to debate whether or not you should believe in these breakout April performances
Timestamps:
0:00 Breakout or Fakeout
3:35 Talkin' Pitching
4:10 Reid Detmers
10:20 Kyle Harrison
19:45 Jordan Hicks
28:00 Richie Palacios
33:00 Masyn Winn
41:25 Michael Busch
48:40 Steven Kwan
49:40 Jordan Westburg
53:00 Patrick Bailey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to a very special edition of Wake
and Jake and a special edition for all the for
all the baseball youtubeer's out there, which that's what I
like to call people. I've done it. I've brought them together,
ladies and gentlemen, Foolish Baseball and Jolly Olive and one
(00:21):
YouTube page Foolish. I'll start with you, are you getting Caddy?
Are we feeling like? What? What energy are you bringing
to the table today?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I think this is a great collab.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You've got me the fourth largest baseball YouTuber and the
third coolest hanging out with the fifth largest baseball YouTuber
and the second coolest.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Hey, that's how I praise Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I hate that.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yeah, you want us to not like each other, and well,
I don't think that's gonna.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
No, we're gonna that's That's not what this he'll t
I do want to We're gonna do some breakout and
fake out, which we did last year with Foolish. It
was one of our one of our first EPs that
that popped a little bit. And I it's just a
fun concept and it's I don't want this to turn
into necessarily knocking players, but it's a lot easier to
(01:17):
have a good month, uh and then be not as
good as baseball than to have a good month and
keep that up, especially with young baseball players and Jolly Olive.
I mean, our our tearless have basically broken the internet.
People look at me like, I'm a tearless YouTube kid,
(01:38):
and I'm like, I don't even I still don't know
what s tier is, but I like the concept of it.
So how are you feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I'm feeling good. I'm excited to honestly go over this
list of players that you sent me in Bailey, because
I've done my best to watch as much baseball as
I can, kind of knowing that my team's gonna be
a little middle of the pack this year. I want
to check out, want to see you has a great
year and stuff like that, and this is a good,
I think refresher to like checking at the end of
(02:05):
the month and be like, hey, these guys are on
pace for you know, potentially award winning years, and we
have to kind of figure out who's real and who's not,
and that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It was it was fun to look back at last
year and some of the names that were discussed as
Waldo Cabrera got brought out, Josh Outman versus Jack Sawinsky,
some I don't know there was I was shocked to
see how athletic Jack Sawinsky was. I think, outman, I'm
(02:35):
not sure I was doing this year, but yeah, as
Waldo Cabrera versus Joey Weimer versus Luke Rayley was a category,
and then some Josh Young, Geraldo Perdomo, Graham Ashcraft. So
I don't know, I fun to look back at because
this isn't the stars either. Like I I sent you
(02:57):
guys over a list of names, and like Riley Green
is on there, and I think Riley Green was the
kind of prospect that's supposed to be that guy. I
don't know if he's going to be the guy that
he's currently being. I think he has like a like
a top five war in baseball, but I don't know.
Riley Green is looking like who Riley Green's supposed to be.
So that's a lot of those guys won't be shout
(03:20):
out too too much. So I think where I'll start
the place that you guys. When I got my responses
from you, the area that was the most different was pitching,
and it was kind of up and down the board
a little bit, so I wanted to lock in on
(03:41):
a couple candidates. And again, I do realize that part
of this exercise is ridiculous, but I want to hear
the baseball side of it or what you're seeing that
you think they may not begin on this level. So
I think I want to start with because I was
debating if he should even go on the list, because
(04:01):
I maybe I'm biased to this guy. Top pick also
came through the office, nice guy, young and feels like
he's getting better read debt Mers. Bailey, you were you
kind of had You used a good check mark system,
which I'm going to start implementing next year. And I
like the way you did that. You had read debt
(04:22):
meers of a couple pictures. We're gonna mention you had
him pretty highly rated. Jolly, you had him on your
no list. Again, I don't know how hard of a
no that was, But Bailey, I I'll let you kick
off with the the why you're on Readebtmers, and I
guess I will tease it a little bit for the
people you had him above. Harrison from San Francisco, uh
(04:46):
and there was one other picture name I had on
there was it another young lefty?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Did you have hicks as you want to compare the
giants pitchers?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I had Hicks on there too, which again you were
a yes, and Jolly was Gore Mackenzie gore that. I
think you were the highest on debt meers and Jolly
was kind of the lowest on denvers. So foolish start
off with the goods.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, first of all, Jolly doesn't know ball. Yes, yeah,
that's I think.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I bring the bell.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Bring the bell for a minute.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I think every disagreement should either start or begin with
the acknowledgment that the other does not know ball in
some sort of way. You do not understand sphere for example,
is another way I could put that. So one thing
I was looking at and a stat that I really
like for pictures is in zone contact rate, because you know,
(05:38):
you know, you've got guys who can you know, get
a lot of guys chasing, all guys fishing, and naturally
they're gonna whiff on those pitches when they do chase.
But in some contact rate I think is pretty predictive,
and right now the second best in zone contact rate
is a guy who's like very clearly breaking out is
very clearly special, and that's Jared Jones. He has the
second lowest in zone contact rate when he he throws
(06:00):
in the zone. They with the pitcher with the lowest
in zone contact rate right now is Redetmers among all
qualified starters. And he's made some notable but small changes.
He's moved what side of the rubber he's on. I
already changed his slider grip. He's getting better locations on
his pitches in general. And I mean because he's lumped
(06:21):
in with Goren Harrison here and those guys are quite young.
We also kind of forget Detmer's is young because he's
been around for a while now, but he's only still
just twenty four in terms of called strike plus whiff right,
which I think is a good stat for like sort
of this sample of the season one month, he's fourteenth
among qualified starters. He's between Logan Gilbert and Corbin Burns
on that. So I feel very strongly about Redetmers. And
(06:42):
we'll talk about some of the other lefties here, but
that's my pitch for him.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
It's a strong pitch, Bailey, and I want to acknowledge
that this was it wasn't one of my hard nos.
It's more so that I have gotten burned on Angel's
lefty starting pitchers before because I was a huge Patrick
Sandoval guy, made up whole video about him, really really
liked what he brought to the table, and things for
him have not panned out, And I can't speak to
(07:07):
the reliability of it, but Baseball Savon is a really
cool engine where they basically compare the likeliness of a
pitcher to another pitcher just based on pitch mix a
velocity movement. His most akin starter right now is twenty
twenty four Patrick Sandoval, the guy who pitches in the
same rotation as him. There are things to like about Deptmos, though.
One thing I noticed when I was just doing a
(07:28):
quick brushover on him is that he's throwing his change
up more than ever. Last year threw at five point
four percent. This year, you're throwing at seventeen point three percent.
So I'm sure that there's some sort of philosophy there
and rationale because his fastball did get absolutely hammered last year,
and I think that's kind of a general thing with
me Guys who don't have that kind of heater pitch
that they can throw for strikes consistently and get results
(07:50):
on always kind of scare me away and Debtmer's was
a guy that was able to do that in the past,
but just had a really tough time with it last year.
That being said, Dept Maer's had two really good months
last year where he looked the part and looked like
the guy that he was supposed to be, that former
first round pick, and the other month surrounding it sandwiching
it just weren't up to snuff at all. A lot
of walks in those month, So I think the biggest
(08:12):
thing for him was, as you said, his in zone
contact rate, Like he's able to not nibble as much
this year. I think his walks are down as well,
so I'm curious to see how much it pans out.
I think I was more so on the no side
because one small sample which I think is going to
be a recurring reason with kind of a lot of
the players that we talk about, and two just a
little bit of angels itis, Like I need to kind
(08:34):
of see a more consistent season from him, because I
feel like you can point to a lot of different
Angels pitchers and like one great month that they had
and see the potential from that, but not necessarily believe
in it all the way. But he's definitely not one
of my harder knows because I could I could fully
see him, you know, living up to some sort of
potential this year and carving out a nice year. It's
just I've been burned before and I'm worried about getting
(08:55):
burned again.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Tell me, I don't know ball.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Say that to you because I don't fully disagree with
a lot of the things he said. I will tell
you later, because I will, I'll get strongly opinionated. But
I don't have that strong a feeling on redet And
Jake is back from his two minute meter.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, sound like, sound like jolly lost the argument. I
don't have strong opinions on redebtmers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, you have to have strong opinions on redebt meers
have strong opinions on redebt mers.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
What do we what?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Will you stand up exactly?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Did we?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Uh? Please?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think I want to address he he you know,
his argument against debt meers was and it's you know,
I'm kind of with them on this is that you know,
you can have great secondaries, but if the fastball doesn't
play like your your upside is really limited, and I
think that allows us to transition to someone who's really
known for their fastball in Kyle Harrison. So, uh, if
(09:51):
you want to, if you want to recap of the argument, uh,
you know, basically I won.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So okay, I mean a really cool comparison to Patrick Sandvill.
He did.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
He did a good job and I and I can't
stand Patrick's aandaval right now and I used to love
him too.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Jolly zero Bailey. One's from Kyle Harrison. So this one
is interesting to me because I, you know, talking baseball,
it's like the best baseball show in the world or whatever.
Kyle Harrison, what do I hear? Like, top lefty prospect
in the game? This guy next mad bah blah, bah blah.
(10:25):
He's twenty two. I and again with sports gambling being
a topic, from us being sponsored by DraftKings to bb
Day's epay situation, Kyle Harrison. I watched a whole start
of his on Friday night against the Pittsburgh Pirates because
(10:46):
I bet on the game, just straight up. I just
had it on my phone and I was like, I
don't know, I'm in on this and it was an
ugly start. He there was traffic on the bases every inning.
I wasn't super impressed by his off speed, like it
was very he was. He started using it as a
get me over strike to start hitters off. He got
(11:09):
better as the game went, and like you mentioned with
the fastball Bailey, it was very much like a just
a lefty sling, like he could throw it up and
away every time, and I think batters would really struggle
with it because you kind of can't tell how much
it's gonna run and where it's gonna end up. So
I don't know. It's a very interesting case study for
(11:31):
me and someone that I talk about on Talking Baseball Chunk,
if you're talking about the Giants outlook this year, a
guy that's been heralded as a massive prospect. I get
a six inning sample size from him. That's six innings clean,
but it actually wasn't pretty. So I don't know. In
a way, I'm looking at him like, yeah, this guy's
(11:52):
a lefty. You know he's gonna grind out innings, but
he'll get it done when he needs to. That guy
can pitch where he was a swing away having an
awful start, So I'm I'm very interested to hear what
you guys see in Kyle Harrison.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Bailey, would you like to I.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Will start jolly.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I was flipping through the dictionary earlier today and I
looked up ball nowher and your picture was nowhere.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
To be found.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So so Kyle Harrison. It's about the fastball, right, as
Jake alluded to. He throws his fastball at the major
league level this year sixty five percent of the time.
It is one of the most thrown pitches in Major
League Baseball right now, and he dominated with it in
the minors and that's how he got that, you know,
(12:41):
reputation as being the top left handed pitching prospect in baseball.
And when he came up last year you could kind
of see why. It's because he throws from a very
funky armslot. His velo isn't that crazy, but his his
release point is so low. It's about five feet, which
is well below the league average. And the key was
that he's able to throw from that lower release and
(13:03):
then put plenty of backspin, get plenty of carry on
that fastball, and hopefully throw it high in the zone
and that flat vertical approach angle. The problem is last
year he was inducing like fourteen inches of vertical break,
which from that release point is pretty good. This year,
he's more like eleven to twelve. And I honestly think
(13:24):
in the minors, with how dominant he was, I don't
have access hat pitch data, I bet he was doing
better than that fourteen. So I honestly think that the
fastball pitch shape is just all out of whack for
him right now. And I find that really concerning. They
have Snell on il right now, and so you know,
there is a there's a need for you know, stability
within that rotation. You'll recall last year they had like
(13:46):
two legit starters down the stretch and it was just
all like you know, bullpen type games basically, you know,
or you know, Brian Walker throws three innings and then
we turn it over the bullpen. But you know, he's
he's gonna have to in order to fix this, He's
gonna have to do it at the big league level,
it seems. But honestly, if it was a different situation,
a better rotation, a better team overre all, like I
(14:07):
would like that that honestly almost would scream like triple
A to me, you know, like, go figure out your
pitch shape. This is your most important pitch. So I'm
I'm concerned with him. And another thing I'll compare him
on Debtmer's with is the defense. The quality of defense
these guys play behind it or have behind them is
night and day. The Giants are so improved they signed Chapman,
they signed the lead. Those guys are like legit great
(14:28):
defenders of their positions. The Angels defenses really isn't that great.
So you know, in terms of run prevention, you know
they may end up doing, you know, somewhat similarly, at
least for a smaller sample. But I mean, don't forget
that that Detmers gets not a lot of help and
Harrison's gonna get plenty of help between the defense and
that ballpark.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
So kinda, I mean, part of your argument kind of
sounded like you liked him a little bit, But I
understand where you're coming from with just his hit ability.
Here's what I'll say. So, part of the reason why
Kyle Harrison was on my like list, whatever we want
to call it, make it break out, whatever, is that
I got to watch him pitch, and I had a
really good time watching him pitch. I think my viewing
experience was different to yours. He is not close to
(15:11):
the comparison that I'm making yet, but there are parts
of his body of work that really liken his approach
to someone like George Kirby. The guy is living in
the zone a ton. He trusts his fastball a ton.
He's a pinpoint control kind of guy. He has a
top ten lowest walk rate in baseball right now at
three point seven percent. And Bailey, every year I get
(15:34):
played by vertical approach angle. I'm never gonna stop getting
played by it. I'm going to continue to fall in
love with that stack because I just think it makes
the fastball so impressive when it's thrown from a lower
print plane. It's why I picked Christian Haavier last year
and got burned. It's why I picked Freddy Peralta this
year and could potentially get burned again. But right now,
Kyle Harrison sports one of the lowest vertical approach angles
(15:56):
in baseball, negative four point one degrees on his fast
and I just think that'll really help it play in
the long term. I know what you were saying about
the shape of his fastball right now, it's very hittable,
but I just think the guy's twenty two years old.
I think the velocity will continue to improve. I think
he sat like ninety three point yeah, ninety three point
six last year, ninety three this year, so I'm curious
to see what the true velocity is there. But again,
(16:20):
it does come down to can you develop a secondary
that you trust, because he kind of throws all three
of them some I mean, I guess the slurve and
the change up much more, but not confidently compared to
his fastball, which is at sixty five point four percent.
It's going to be about developing that secondary pitch and
managing contact, and like you said, the Giants defense can
really help out in that department. I don't think he's
(16:41):
ACE caliber yet. I think the Giants can rely on
other guys in the rotation, probably another one that we'll
talk about in a little bit. But I like a
lot about the specs of Kyle Harrison. I do think
he'll improve upon you know what has been a lot
of hard hits against him in April. I just think
it's a little bit of growing pants.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Damn dunked on like that, foolish, I will say, with
regards to the verticalot proch angle, like I mean, okay,
I could have an awesome verticalot proch angle.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Like I'm short, I could just throw the blow or
release the ball out and throw it high.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
That's all you have to do, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So I think for me it's like you have to
get the vertical movement behind that pitch in.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Order for it to really which he did.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
He's at point he did have that, but he doesn't
have it this year, not yet.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Okay, Yeah, I'm fascinated to see because again watching it,
I I used to get nervous about doing like the
the MLB Scout type stuff because I end of the day,
I I don't know enough. But also at the end
of the day, like who cares a little bit? Like
(17:47):
you know, when Oswaldo was awful last year, Oh it's
always the Yankees. When Oswaldo was awful last year, it's like, well,
you know, I still like his swing. He can play
every position that if he can be a g average hitter,
like I think that's in him somewhere. For Kyle Harrison,
with that fastball, it's currently a step up, like if
he can do anything else, whether it's get back to
(18:10):
his fastball being better, learn how to throw his slurve better,
or change up or whatever it is. I mean, he
navigated a Pittsburgh lineup that I'd have to get in
the stats a little more. But I know, keep Ryan
verse lefties and Brian Reynolds versus lefties. I think they
they had a right handed hitting lineup that again, for
(18:33):
Kyle Harrison, was tough to navigate. He navigated well on
that night. And I'm I'm gonna like to think someone
that a lefty pitcher with decent arm talent and a
good fastball, maybe he knows how to pitch a little bit.
Or we could be coming up for air in a
couple months and it's like, hey, Kyle Harrison, figure something
(18:55):
else out, dude, And that's kind of the beauty of baseball.
Look at Okay, last time it won't be the last
time Carlos Rodan is like pitching now.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
It won't be the last time Carlos Rodan.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Is pitching now, which kind of blew my mind because
I was I was standing at the table being like,
hey man, this guy was one of the best pitchers
in baseball, going fastball slider ninety five percent of the time.
Why do the Yankees need to change him? He's like
changing and he kind of needs it. So Kyle Harrison
and every baseball player runs into this. I'm twenty two
(19:27):
years old, twenty two I'm rooting for him. Learn from Snell,
learn from Robbie Ray.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Robbie Raight.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
God, those giants, they're running a pretty weird out of
the park baseball team, right they are? They really are.
Let's I guess we'll keep it giant focused for now, Jolly,
I will let you kick off because this one seemed
I almost didn't put this one on the sheet because
it felt like a layup. Everyone has always loved Jordan
(19:56):
Hicks his arm talent for obvious reasons, you know, casually
pumping one hundred four mile per hour sinkers. I think,
I hope it's a time we look back on baseball
and we're like, what was happening for a little bit?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Why was this whole?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I don't think it's going away. But now the fastball
is sitting at ninety six miles per hour. He's throwing
that fifty one percent of time. The baseball savant is
very red. That little what is it a split change
he's thrown a little split finger looks like kind of
a wipeout pitch. He's setting career highs and strikeouts, and
here's Happy Grape saying he's not about it. Jolly, what's
(20:35):
that about?
Speaker 4 (20:36):
I got I have to be a hater. I'm sorry, Okay,
I think that Jordan Hicks let the higher fuel you.
Right now, Jordan Hicks is one of the most impressive
pitchers in baseball. But three months from now, I don't
know where he'll be because he's never pitched three months
of baseball. He's never pitched that inning total for a
(20:56):
starting pitcher. The highest inning total of his career was
in twenty eight team seventy seven and two thirds. That
was a long time ago. That was a very different Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Team in a seventy seven.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Seventy seven and two thirds. I think in the miners
he got maybe a little bit higher. I'll double check
that real quid. Yeah, he hasn't one hundred and five
in the miners the year before, So that as homer
as this argument might be, that is the argument I'm
making is that people, the Cardinals have tried this experiment before.
It has worked in spades, but something always bottoms out
(21:26):
with Jordan Hicks. Now, the velocity dip is the most
interesting thing because it's very obviously purposeful, taking him down
from one hundred to ninety five and making him some
sort of sinker ball or ground ball pitcher. His launch
angle is also the highest it's ever been. It's at
seven point one right now. It's never been higher than
one point four, which I did find a little interesting. Again,
(21:46):
small sample side. It's only been six starts, so outside
of that, you can't argue his stuff. You can't argue
the velocity. I think that those things will continue to play.
It's just ken Jordan Hicks make five starts a month
for a team that absolutely needs him to because they're
having rotation problems right now, with the question marks around
Kyle Harrison, with Snail's injury, Robbie Ray out until July,
(22:08):
I don't know, but if he does, I'm fully prepared
to eat crote because he looks very impressive right now.
It's just I haven't seen it yet, so it's hard
to visualize.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Okay, Bailey, listen, cheerful Cherry.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
First, I mean, this is something that you wouldn't disagree
with me on. But what I'm enjoying about this Jordan
Hicks is that even in his days as a reliever.
What he does profiles better as a starter in a way,
like he has like a legit three pitchment. Yes, the
sinker's legit, the splitter is legit, like Jake said, the
sweeper's legit. But what's what's nice about him is like, Okay,
(22:48):
if he was like a prototypical closer, right, you know,
here's the guy who comes in, doesn't get a ton
of swifts, doesn't get a ton of swings and misses,
but you know, rocks up those ground balls. That was
kind of his game, Star Grabborol esque. And that's another
guy who was seen as a Frenchy starter at times.
And so the the what I'm trying to say is,
you know, if your closer comes in and he gets
(23:09):
through the ninth inning and twenty five pitches because he
walked a couple of eyes and he struck out the
next three, you don't really care. At the end of
the day, You're just glad he got the safe we're
starting pitcher. That efficiency, that that ability to you know,
navigate through a lineup to get those ground balls is everything,
you know. And and he as a reliever has proven
he's capable of that, and he's proven to be efficient
(23:30):
enough as a starter as well.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So that's that's what I really like about him.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
And with the innings concerns, like, I mean, I totally
get it, but I mean I think you could say
that about literally any single pitcher ever pitching right now, like, oh,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
If he'll make it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I don't know if he'll get to throw one hundred
and fifty one hundred and sixty innings this year. Well
I could say that about everybody, you know. And so
all I know is he's pitching great now. And one
thing I do recall, and look, this is totally different
from someone who's you know, binner or reliever. For all
his time in the majors, he was. He was a
star harder in the minor leagues. I will I will
point out, uh but uh, you know, I remember, you know,
(24:05):
after twenty twenty, when everyone had like a weird shortened year,
the way a lot of managers handled it was, you know,
there get Like I remember Counsel said this explicitly. He said,
however many innings they threw in twenty twenty will do
that plus one hundred, you know, so like he he understood,
and those were I mean, those were starters like Burns
(24:26):
and Woodruff still, but that he understood that you can
you can ramp that up. You know, look at what
you know Seth Lugo did last year converting from relief
to starting.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So again, the injury stuff, you.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Know, I don't know about I don't I personally don't
really speculate about it unless they have just an insane,
insane history. But I know Jordan Hicks is pitching great
right now, and that also you don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Ball hmmm, sum and he wins. At the end, I was,
I was getting comfortable.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, I there's a couple of things going on around here,
because it's it's the world of pitching right now. When
when injuries get brought up and you see someone that
throws like this, and the Cardinals tried to do the
starter thing with him a couple times and it didn't
It didn't really happen at the big league level. I
do think one of the next things teams are going
to try is the Seth Lugo, Michael King, Jordan Hicks,
(25:18):
where if you're if you're performing out of the bullpen
and you have a pitch mix, why not open that
road back up again? Even like It'll be interesting to
see how the rest of this year goes, because I
think even if the Giants were to get a buck
twenty innings out of Jordan Hicks this year, that's still
a massive win. With the contract he's got. In their
(25:42):
perfect world, they're making a wild card and maybe he
transitions to a two winning role out of the playoffs
to finish this year or something like that. I the
science of it is something that I should never be
speaking on, but I think where I can actually be
good is I I'm I'm only gonna speak on the
(26:02):
stuff that I actually think we can use as of now.
And in the pitching injury world, I think one of
the things proven is that the the UCL or everything
in here, it's fully developed at age twenty seven. So
I think we are going to see a lot of guys,
especially younger, take the bullpen route for a little bit
(26:26):
and and try to save themselves that way and then
make the transition, which that used to be so faupa.
On baseball, I mean, you know job at Chamberlain Yankees,
there is that I don't know. I think we're going
to start to see more of this because people will
have adult elbows and hopefully that can be a solution
(26:49):
for the actual pitching performance wise, It'll be like anyone.
It'll be interesting to see second time through the league,
like this is a new version of Jordan Hicks. But
I also, from what you were saying before for Bailey,
the defense behind him, like you know, Jimmy doesn't have
a poker face. Uh, he was baseball. Jimmy was drooling
(27:10):
because he was like, wait, they've got Matt Chapman behind
Jordan Hicks. You know, Nick Ahmed has been picking it
over there that like it's a it's a fun thing
that hopefully, I don't know, we maybe we're seeing something
in baseball where it's like, hey, Jordan Hicks, if you
get two strikes, punch him out. But let that sink
or run because you got fellows behind you.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
It's the Giants part of shift.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, you know, let's keep it moving to Keaton Win
and Logan Webb.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I could talk about Keaton Win all day, baby.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And that's what I was worried about. That's why we're
not talking about Keaton Win. Although all he's been doing
is winning lately. There is another win coming up. Tease. Uh,
let's get you guys aligned for a little bit because
there was there was a couple guys that you both
had as breakouts, So this can be the good let's
(28:01):
taste some fellas section. I agree more than you Richie
Pelasio switch a couple things in play here. We met
Richie Pelasios and he was really nice, which sometimes I
put up a reverse bias against that. I was like,
I don't know, if this guy is so nice, can
he be the nine hundred ops guy that wasn't really
(28:24):
a top prospect that now the Rays are gonna raise with.
And I see Rays bullshit every year a part in
my French. But you know, we talked Luke Railey last
year that they have now turned into their starting shortstop
in Caballio. Yandi Dias won the batting title last year
and I'm team Yandi and he's gonna pick it back
up this year. But the Rays are going to raise that.
(28:48):
I was surprised that both of you had Richie Pelasio's
as breakout, so foolish if you want to start with Richie.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, I had him as breakout before the season, even
I mean not sorry, sorry to flex that he was.
I he was posting like, uh, this is this is
deep research. He was posting like Instagram stories of him
in the cage. Yeah, and he was like he was
topping his max exit velos from like in game situations,
(29:16):
just like you know, hitting BP basically.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Uh so, like he was he was.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Like dedicated to adding pop and he uh you know,
went to drive line and he's got all the I mean, honestly,
if you just want to play it by the teams,
he has all the makings of a development success because
he's former Cardinals outfielder goes to the race.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I mean that I hate to. I hate to, but
it's that. But it's true.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's true, and and and what's exciting about Plastius is
he's always been a disciplined hitter in the sense that
he's always had good ratios in terms of his strikeouts
and walks.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
That's that was a constant trim all throughout the miners.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
But then when you have a guy who's like that
and then all of a sudden they had power, you
just get a really good hitter, you get a really
good baseball player, you get you know. So that's what
Jose Ramirez did. Basically, I'm not saying he's the next
Jose Ramirez. But you know, so I'm really excited about
Ritchie Pelasios because it's basically just a story of guy
goes from bad situation to good situation, guy who is disciplined,
(30:15):
adds power and still seems to have that discipline. It's just, Yeah,
it seems like a breakout to me.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
A big part of the equation here that you built
up a little bit. Not only is he a former
Cardinals outfielder, he's also a former Guardians outfielder, which is
also a theme of them just cutting away guys. I
could easily be part of their lineup, but they're doing fine,
so I don't really need them. Pelasius, you covered a
lot of bases there. He's a guy that had a
really good end of last year, and I find myself
(30:43):
in the off season getting caught up on that a
lot because it's like, oh, what, what did they figure
out in the final two months that made things click
when he was going with the Cardinals there when they
made that trade for Kittridge. So far it's working out.
But when they made that trade, I was like, this
has disaster written all over at Kiittridge. Injury guy hasn't
had a full season since twenty one, Plasios on a
verge of a breakout. So far, it's going well for
(31:05):
both sides. But I really like what I've seen from
him so far. It's kind of a little bit what
they did with Esak Parades, Like just hit the ball
as hard as you can, like raise that launch angle
as much as you kind of think he's up like
seven degrees from last year. The walks up, the strikeout
is also up, which is kind of a common theme
with raised hitters, like they've been punching out a ton,
even Yandi after winning the batting title last year, just
(31:28):
a lot to like. I think, I think fools. She
hit on most of it there. This one's more of
a vibes one for me. It just kind of it
feels like it's just gonna click. It feels like it's
just gonna work.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Man. I was surprised when I looked at the minor
league numbers for Richie Pelasios two eighty eight, three ninety
two on base eight thirty nine oh ps. So when
you mentioned the power side of it kicking in a
little more like that could be a game changer for him,
because if you have enough of the hit tool, you
have enough of the on base tool and I I
absolutely love the Cardinals outfield tree that's now not with
(32:05):
them because, uh, just a reminder of this baseball season
is getting underway, and it's a lot of like, well,
you know, the Cardinals are thirteen and fifteen, let's see
what happens. They're twenty seventh and ops twenty eighth in
runs Like the Cardinals would kill for Richie Palasios right now,
and yet no offense to Alec Burleson, but he's currently
(32:26):
listed as their starting left fielder. Alec Burrowson looks like
an alex boy. God, good for him. Deebs, what was
that was his couch dropped coffee? Caught it? Wow? That
was sick. No big deal, break out camera switch to them.
Let's all right, yay, we're happy. Let's let's care daringry again.
(32:50):
This is what the people want. Uh in this one,
I think statistically again, how Foolish ranked his chart. I
think you guys were the furthest part on Mason win, No,
Keaton win today, Mason win. I'm gonna let Jolly go
first because he's on the bus. He admitted there might
(33:11):
be a little recency bias because he just watched him
play his Metropolitans. But what did you see, j'all?
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I mean, the thing that jumps to everybody's mind is
that he I think he has like the strongest arm
of any infielder ever in the history of the sport,
which is pretty damn cool. But there's obviously a lot
more to the game than just that. You are, right, Jake.
The Cardinals were just in town, so I did just
watch him play, and I follow a decent bit of
Cardinals Twitter, and I like to see what they're up
(33:38):
to because they do have a lot of exciting young players.
There's just sometimes they don't always stick with the team.
Like we mentioned before, Mason Win. It's a tale of
two approaches right now. He is red bubble, blue bubble
and baseball Savona if we want to get as surface
level as possible. But the red bubbles he has are
the ones that I like. Plate discipline, it's something I
value a lot in younger players. This guy is an
(34:00):
other twenty two year old, just like Kyle Harrison. He's
seventy six percent tile and walk rate, eighty six in
wifth rate, ninety percent tile in sweet spot percentage. So
pitch selection right now has been going pretty well for him.
That being said, the exit velocities aren't quite there. He's
not hitting the ball as hard as he possibly can.
Yet outs above average doesn't like him, which I was
(34:20):
a little shocked by because you know, from the eye
test I had a final verdict of that boy nice
at shortstop. But I guess Savant might disagree to a
little bit of a term there. But Yeah, the biggest
things for me is that he's hitting the fastball, which
is important. I think if you're not getting blown up
by fastballs at a young age, I think that like
can really translate well going forward. It's gonna be a
little bit of a second tour around the league, Like
(34:41):
you mentioned before with one of our other topics. Can
he adjust, Will pitchers figure out how to approach against him?
Will they throw him fastballs less? That's all going to
be part of the equation there. But I do like
what I've seen from Mason Win so far. I just
think that like the good eye and the good defense
is enough for me to kind of buy in a
little bit of stock for him and young agent see
how he develops. And he's also just a kid that
(35:03):
the Cardinals have been very excited about for a while
and now he's finally here.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Fulkish No, I mean what's said is I like pretty much,
I pretty much totally agree with what he just said.
Like he's he's taking sort of a long term mist
view of Mason Wynn and who he is, which like, yeah,
I'm totally downe with that. But I mean, if we're
talking short term, let's say from May onward to the
(35:30):
end of the twenty twenty four season, this guy, well,
this year's just bab bitpen. I mean, I think I
think anyone can can see that. So far he has
eight hundred oh ps. He's just bab bitpen right now.
But you know what, for me, offensively, which is what
I'm focused on, because I think we know what the
defensive talent is. He has one hundred and sixty career
(35:52):
batted balls at the major league level and two barrels.
So for me, I'm kind of a barrel's ar king guy.
You know, you can get away with the lower barreled
ball approach if you have excellent ratios and strikeouts and walks.
He doesn't really have that. He's pretty averagish in both
those areas. So offensively, I'm just not really excited by
(36:16):
him right now. He's very young and he can develop
that aspect of his game. But the defense is legit.
Do you remember that thing last year where I mean
maybe it was overblown where Justin Turner made some comments
a little bit snarky about his arm strength because he
was lined up in the minors and he's talking about
how it's not a big deal. It is a big
deal because when you have that arm strength, that means
(36:37):
you can take that extra little bit, that extra little
fraction of a second to really make the play. You know,
make sure you receive the ball cleanly, transferred cleanly, because
you know, if you have the arm strength, you can
still throw out the runner by half a step. So
I love that for him, but offensively not excited no
barrels this year. I'm not going to get excited for
no barrels.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
In that I want to build off the arm strength
thing you mentioned there. In the final game of Mets Cars,
I think they had like a prime opportunity to win
the game. They threw up a scoreless tenth. They had
the runner at third I think with one outrunners on
the corners and DJ Stewart not a fast runner, but
HiT's like a pretty slow ground ball, a very beatable
ground ball, and he gets the feed and he I
(37:15):
got to see his arm at full strength, absolutely whipping it,
and that throw almost won the Cardinals the game and
got them a sweep because they scored around the next inning.
That's the kind of difference that defensive talent can make.
And you know, just one micro game situation. But honestly,
I didn't know that barrel stat that's pretty alarming, Oh,
(37:36):
pretty alarming.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Has he admitted defeat?
Speaker 1 (37:42):
It's a I was gonna say, it's it.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, we agree, we agree long term, but short term avance.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I don't think he's an All Star this year.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
It seems like Mason Win loves bad bippen bud. He's
got a barrel's problem. You know what I'm saying. That
was pretty good, so good. I'm rooting from well, it's
funny you say that.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Tell me about Oswald for well, the arm strength.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I'm a little bit rooting for Mason Win just because
after that Cardinals outfield thing, they kind of need a win.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Ironically, his last name and currently three wins in baseball.
We mentioned Keaton also cole Win. Nobody related w I
n N. I don't know, that's something I'm I'm rooting
for Mason Win. Yeah, I mean there's a little bit
of prototypical kind of light hitting shortstop. He doesn't have
have the home run this year. I'm interested to watch.
(38:37):
I I don't know, I've I've got a I've got
a bad feeling that the Cardinals, this Cardinals team could
be on their last hurrah a little bit, whatever that
means for them, and I hope Mason Win is part
of the solution to the next Cardinals team. We're talking
about the arm strength thing of mixed results because I
(39:01):
was on a Dansby Swanson kind of witch hunt the
past couple of years of like everyone's saying that he
doesn't have a strong arm, but he's the best defensive
shortstop in the game. Pretty much after seeing that double
play that I watched live, because again I'm a common
note ball knower and I was going to bring that
(39:22):
up if Jolly did not, and the Yankees middle infield
is currently awful at turning double plays, that arm strength
should matter and like you were saying, foolish if he
can even adapt his game to make the play, trust
(39:43):
the arm a little more. Yeah, he has all the
abilities to be a talented shortstop that if you're doing
anything offensively because one more ball knowing flex I was
watching my Snakes late last night. Kevin Newman, Oh my.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
God, just hangs around, doesn't he.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
There's a reason why he was making plays at shortstop.
That if you showed a new fan one game and
you were like, hey, who are some of these best
players on the field Snake's Dodgers, they'd be like, oh,
I don't know that Otani fella. And that's without knowing
he hits Mookie probably gets a vote. Dude. Kevin Newman
made a couple of plays at short that I I
(40:23):
was kind of personally mad at him because he was
part of a Cole Tucker issue in Pittsburgh for a
little bit and then he basically absolved everything in two plays.
It's kind of thick.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
They should have just brought back Nick Ahmed. If we're
gonna do this, come on, come on. He looks disgusting
in a Giant's uniform. It makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Blaze Alexander bro can't feel and Jordan Lawler that's an arm.
They've got to start winning some games in the desert.
By the way, I had to.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
I have to get this in. You mentioned the third
win cole Win. I'd never heard of him, just hopped
on his page. No hit innings for the Rangers this year.
One walk the bullpen.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
That's it's crazy, that's the Rangers factory. Uh. I have
one other hitter. Uh that you guys were opposite ends
of the spectrum on foolish. I don't think you were
as passionate about this one. But it's a player that
turned heads. I know again kind of mocking me and
(41:24):
Trev on Talking Baseball. Look at Michael Bush, Dude, this
guy's just hitting homeless. He was a prospect for the
for the Dodgers and now he just hits home is
for the Cubs. Subscribe Talking Baseball for that content. Uh,
you guys ended up on the opposite sides, Bailey, I'll
let you start.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Why don't we let Charlie start? Because I think I've
been going first to lot?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Oh wow, Scar, Yeah, a little bit of fear Pointlly.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Let's go. I don't even have to explain now he's
just scared now.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
It's a it's a little bit a mixed bag here.
There's a lot to like in his peripheral. He's hitting
the ball really hard. I think we we're all a
little confused when the Cubs made that trade in the
offseason because there were so many years of like Matt
Murvis hype, and I thought that there was like a
different plan going forward. Instead it's Michael Bush and he's
gotten off to a really nice start. But I do
think the guy is a defensive liability, and I do
(42:16):
think that matters in this equation. It's obviously a different
ballgame for first baseman. They play by different rules and
that's okay, But he's a big time strikeout guy as well.
And I mean, if you're going to hit home runs,
that's not gonna matter as much. There's so many different
first basemen you can point to in the league that
kind of go by that mantra. So as long as
he can continue hitting the ball hard, there's no reason
(42:37):
to bet against him. I am just a little worried about,
you know, how the league will see him on the
second time around. I mean, with the Dodgers, there's so
much talent on that roster it's really hard to get
any sort of consistent starting role and consistent playing time.
Now he's in that situation with the Cups, and he's
flourishing in his first month. I just think we've seen
so many first basement of years past that have come
(42:57):
up and have had great spurts, and then their second
time around they never fully get over that humph. So
for Michael Bush, it could be a story of a
nice late bloomer who finally got an opportunity and really
made the most of it on a pretty good Cups
team right now. But I just I don't really have
that belief. That's that's kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
I you know, I used to be like you, I
hated this trade when it went through. I absolutely hated it,
the Mervis hype. I was actually more of a of
a Patrick Wisdom apologist if anything. I was like, how
much better is this guy than Patrick Wisdom?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Really?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
And you know, those the prospects that the Dodgers got
in return, like Young a lot of upside, you know.
I from what I've seen this past month, I've I've
sort of flipped on that. I mean, I think the
the dodd I mean, the Dodgers will probably develop those
prospects fine enough.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
But Bush looks pretty legit.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
I think I think the case will come down a
little bit just historically based on what he's done in
the miners and some of his contact rates. But I mean,
if you you know, if you want to compare him
to like his cup of coffee with the Dodgers last year,
it is night and day. I mean, with the Dodgers
he hit twice as many ground balls as fly balls.
With the Cubs, he's twice as many fly balls as
ground balls, and that's with the same strikeout and walk rate.
(44:18):
So yeah, for me, it's like I hated this trade.
But then and you're you're totally right about the defense too.
Like he he's like they thought maybe they were getting
some versatility. He cannot play a position other than first.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Base, he's think, and I think if he's dhing, then
like I think I go from knowing him to just
kind of indifferent, Like, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Think that's but this is I mean, this is the
opposite of the Mason win. This is just barrels Gobert
basically at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
And this is also like a.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
Little bit of April Wrigley too, like usually that kind
of cats and he had a really good first month,
so that you can kind of swing that way too.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Yeah, I it like you guys both mentioned it was
an odd trade. It was a wait, like, you know,
top prospects that we talk ourselves into, and especially I
always take a step back because no one loves them
more than the team they're currently on, like to have
(45:15):
a top one hundred prospect and Michael Bush and the
numbers he put up at double A and triple A
to see him flipped as part of a roster crunch
move for two prospects coming back that a there's like,
there's just a sniff test that doesn't make sense. You're like, okay,
so are we gonna are those two Dodger players future
(45:36):
All stars? Like that? How does this magic show end?
And then Michael Bush comes out and he has the
big first month that it's like it goes the other
way that I'm looking at a spray chart right now
and I'm I'm saying, sleeping cashman again outside the stadium,
stop bringing up the Yanks.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
I don't I want to root for my I want
to believe. I want to say, like, hey, this is
a good story of a prospect who put in the time,
doesn't get the opportunity till he's twenty five, twenty six.
It all clicks. He's the Cubby first baseman for the
future after looking at last year's breakout in fake Out list,
(46:18):
and like you're mentioned with some of the defense, things
can get slippery in baseball real quick. This is a
team that like Saya Suzuki, who I think, we're all
stands up on this pod. Like he got benched by
the Cubs last year for a little bit because he
had like a seven to seventy oz ps and was
in a funk. Like if Michael Bush goes into a funk,
(46:38):
if you're not playing a good first base, he can't
play anywhere else. That's when baseball can get tough on you.
And maybe that was the Dodgers' equation when they were
trading him. We've been we've been laughing at the William
Contreras Sean Murphy A's trade recently because it's tough to
go back and it was like, wait, well, does William
Contreras have a position catching school? And now it it's like, wait,
(47:03):
why were the Brewers even involved in this trade? Never
mind getting William Contreras. So at the same time, if
Michael Bush, who's been looking for a position, can get
a little more comfortable at first base, can ride out
a summer in Wrigley. You could be talking about a
guy in his rookie year having a thirty homer season
or something like that. So, uh, Cubs fans, I'm interested
(47:23):
what you guys are seeing day and day out because
I want to root Michael Bush. I guess if if
I had to put money on it right now, I
would lean fake out a little bit. Just from all
the sniff test stuff I said leading.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Up to that, I think, well, so I means jolly
wins because I've seen your your DFS rankings. Yeah, and
I mean again you mentioned that dictionary you looked up.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Hey, I stop the fighting. I don't. I don't. I
don't need it. Most of the episode, Well, watch watching
his two brother and arms go at it. How about this,
I'll go open board for a little bit. Because I
sent you guys a lot of names. It was a
pretty daunting text. The first time I sent it to Bailey,
(48:11):
I copied him paste for my email and it didn't
space out properly at all. So it is just a
bulk text of like basically every young name in baseball.
Both of you guys had been Rourtfreds fake out, which
I didn't like. I guess of all the names on
the list, because there was about thirty or so Bailey,
(48:33):
if I said, hey, here's two minutes on the clock,
give one of the guys you either want to talk
about in a positive or negative light.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
I'm gonna go Stephen Kwan. Okay, we've seen what he
did as a rookie. He took a step back, but
his career high going into this year was six home
runs and he has three already. And it's kind of
a similar story to Placios. He went through an off
season like batspeed improvement and as a result, he's run
(49:02):
into a few while still being Stephen Kwan, he still
maintains that all the great Stephen Kwan things that make
Stephen Kwan Stephen Kwan. If he hits ten homers this year,
his numbers could be just awesome because you know, he's
probably gonna walk about as much as he strikes out.
He's gonna hit for average. So I love me some
Stephen Kuwan, and you know, cause you gave me, you
(49:22):
gave me a little bit of time. I'm gonna go
for a surprise fake out, a fake out that is
gonna blow people's minds considering the start this guy is on.
I'm just Jordan Westburg. I'm not totally sold. I'm sorry,
I'm not I'm not totally sold. Even throughout his prospectum.
I would look at it long term and be like, well, gee,
if they want to play Mayo and Henderson and Holiday
in the same infield, where does Westbrook go, you know?
(49:45):
Or is Mayo a first baseman or a corner outfielder?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Could or you know? And where's cold Kowser fit into this? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:51):
My thing with with Westburg is just the just his
his discipline. Overall, the the whiffs and the chase, they're
not that impressive to me. He's he's twenty five, which
is young, but it's not young young like some of
these other Orioles prospects we've seen come up that said
I have him on my fantasy team and he's absolutely
killing it.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
I ironically just picked him up too. And I will say
point to Jolly. Unfortunately, I mentioned how you made your
list and you had the check Mark x mark system. Jolly,
I sent it over and again. I wanted to get
guys that you guys were more passionate about I didn't
want to just throw something out there. Jolly sent over
(50:35):
a list of guys at the bottom of his sheet
that he listed as unsure. Jordan Westberg led the list
Dalton Varsher, Varshow, Tanner Hawk, Bryce Miller, Brady Singer, and
Jose Burrios, which I was asking if you guys thought
there was another level in there. And now I'm kind
of laughing because we we live in an area of
(50:57):
sports media where you know, ESPN for years has gone
with the first take, battle it out. I almost wish
I did this whole segment as the unsure pile, and
we all just looked at each other like, I don't
fucking know.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
One hour of shrugging.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Yeah, just just talking about Dalton Varshow and be like, I.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
Don't have no idea, honestly, the Blue Jays, why don't
I just put them in the unsure pile, all of them?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
I think Bailey the last we're at the end of
last year when we talked, you were on a a
little bit. This could be the end of the Blue Jays.
Are you is that flag planted or are you just
kind of in the background waiting to see.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yeah, I'm just I'm quietly waiting for their downfall, but
I'm not saying anything yet.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Okay, uh, jolly al with that uh that big boy
list I sent over to you. Who's Who's someone that
you're feeling a little passionate about.
Speaker 4 (51:51):
I want to give Jordan Wesburg a little bit of
his fourth highest and hard hit rate right now. But
I do agree, I don't really know what he is
and he can probably hide in the Orioles lineup. I
have to take this time to eat some crow on
Alec Bohm because he's off to an amazing start. He
is crushing the ball. His defense looks like he's sort
(52:12):
of going towards the Austin Riley path of getting steadily
better every year until he's at a point where he's
either serviceable or good. And his walk rate is doubled
between years. So not only is he swinging at better pitches,
he's taken the bad ones now, which is a big
problem for him the past. So shout out to Alec Boum.
He's kind of carrying the Phillies offense right now. They
have like a muted version of Bryce Harper. They have
(52:34):
Schober doing his thing, and then everybody else is struggling,
so they're not where they are without him, so I
definitely have to eat some crow there. Bailey. I want
to make sure you know this. When we did our
left field tier list, I fought tooth and nail to
get Stephen Kwan up the tier list. These two did
not want him up, so I lost that battle and
he's in the middle now and I want that grievance
aired live on television, So that's what I'm doing. One
(52:57):
last thing, Patrick Bailey's really good, isn't live intell. Patrick
Bailey's insanely good. He was really good when he came
up last year, and then he got figured out a
little bit, had a really tough end of the year.
I think everyone who was kind of paying attention knew
that wasn't who he is, and now he's showing us
who he is, which is the promised catcher of the
future for the San Francisco Giants. Outside of that, a
(53:18):
lot of these names I find interesting. I don't have
a strong opinion on a lot of them. I don't
really know what the future holds for a lot of
the unproven guy like will You're or Bray You, I
don't know. He's Right now, the Alex Vdugo decision looks
pretty good by the Red Sox, but I don't know
how much that's gonna pan out. We'll see. Zach Lyttel,
Is he not a reliever? Is he actually a very
good starter? Did the race work their magic? I don't know,
(53:39):
but that's the beauty of the first month of baseball.
The possibilities are endless.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Zach Lyttel, Do I have to put him on my Yeah?
I think he's I'm going to add him to my
reliever starter list.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
Yeah, he qualifies.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Not not as sexy as some of the other names.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
He was a the Lopez who.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Let's get those does he lead the league and her?
Let's get those UCLs healthy and full at twenty seven
and then guys can go do whatever they want. Yeah, Ran,
although I wasn't even gonna make him an option just
because he's been like the best. Yeah, and again he
probably doesn't keep up that pace, but maybe it's some braves.
Speaker 4 (54:19):
Some braves, bullshit, god sev he's been good.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Don't don't we don't no Yankees yank no Yankees.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
To please let me SEVENO. He reminds me of Severino
when he was on the Yankees.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
You know, actually, have you seen Louise? Have you seen
Luis Heal? He's actually traded zach Utel for high ma Garcia.
Speaker 4 (54:43):
Wow, everything's connected.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
You guys brought up Yanks.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, I know, we didn't say we didn't say nothing.
Let me see, is there any other player that I
have to highlight?
Speaker 4 (54:58):
Bryce ter has been really good?
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah? Yes, I was surprised no one took took the
bait on Bryce Terrang because even if you don't think
he's going to keep up at that level, which I
don't think anyone does, he has the speed and defense
that he should be able to stick around and kind
of like what we what you mentioned with Stephen Kwan
and uh, kind of the opposite of the Michael Bush fade,
(55:20):
Like even if Bryce Terrang isn't contributing at a high
level offensively, he can still contribute in a lot of
ways that I was a little surprised no one went
for Terrang or Perkins Little brew Crew Devil Magic. Yet
at the same time I very much understand why, like
those those guys, I don't think a lot of Brewers
(55:42):
fans had either of them on their bingo card of
having like a good month, nevermind one war. This year,
Perkins is batting in the middle. He's batting fifth for
the Brewers.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
Just like I didn't. This one completely under my radar.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
It's a baseball is a six sport, man, Tony guys,
and you guys have become some of the YouTube icons
of this sixth sport. So I'm happy I got to
bring you guys together. Foolish Thank you. Is there anything
we needed to hype? I know, the out of the
park baseball we were talking about that before the program.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, let's hype that.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
On Foolish Bailey, I've started my out of the park
baseball play through. It's it's actually how I started my
origin story as a YouTuber, probably I don't know, six
years ago or something like that, is out of the
park baseball tutorials followed by a series.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Right now, I have taken over the Oakland A's.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
John Fisher came begging to me, please, please please, I've
changed my mind. Let's keep the A's in Oakland and
let's try to build a winner. And that's what we're
trying to do over on Foolish Bailey.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
Jolly, what do you have to hype?
Speaker 4 (56:49):
Go watch Bailey's new video on Adam Dunn. I liked
it a lot. He made himself wash Adam Dunn's defense
for a long time, which I would never do to myself,
So props. Then no, go to cham Baseball. There's a
new trivia video every weekday on Monday through Thursday. We
do drafts every Monday. Jake did really well and the
one that came out yesterday I looked stupid. So if
(57:11):
you're into that kind of thing, go watch that. If not,
I got a new video on my channel every.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Saturday and we'll we'll be in Baltimore.
Speaker 4 (57:18):
We will tomorrow first place. Oh's baby, Let's get it.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Third, as you're hearing it, why not boys? Thank you.
I hope there's some baseball geeks that really get in
their quote unquote Jolly's off to this one. Make sure
everyone subscribed. We just hit eighteen k subs. How about that?
Just talking baseball into a mic pretty much. Shout out
to King Beibes and Waken. Jake is now a production
(57:45):
of Dan Patrick Productions. John Boy Me, I forgot about that.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
I should have brought that up at the start of
the episode. Does that mean I get to meet Dan Patrick?
We could set something up, yes, and workhouse media. We
just a little teaser. I guess it's going out today.
We just we talked to Dan Patrick for the first time.
Oh so i'd assume that's right before that. I assume
they're not banking that. I would assume that either comes
out came out yesterday as you at Homer listening to this,
(58:12):
or it comes out today as you at Homer listening
to this.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Don't know.
Speaker 4 (58:15):
Do you guys just have blind meetings before THO there's
us every meeting is I don't know.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
I don't like.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Just to be clear about when we're recording this. We
recorded this on August third, nineteen ninety Seven's.
Speaker 1 (58:27):
Right Bookmarket subscribe. Thank you everybody,
Hello, and welcome to a very special edition of Wake
and Jake and a special edition for all the for
all the baseball youtubeer's out there, which that's what I
like to call people. I've done it. I've brought them together,
ladies and gentlemen, Foolish Baseball and Jolly Olive and one
(00:21):
YouTube page Foolish. I'll start with you, are you getting Caddy?
Are we feeling like? What? What energy are you bringing
to the table today?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I think this is a great collab.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
You've got me the fourth largest baseball YouTuber and the
third coolest hanging out with the fifth largest baseball YouTuber
and the second coolest.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Hey, that's how I praise Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I hate that.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Yeah, you want us to not like each other, and well,
I don't think that's gonna.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
No, we're gonna that's That's not what this he'll t
I do want to We're gonna do some breakout and
fake out, which we did last year with Foolish. It
was one of our one of our first EPs that
that popped a little bit. And I it's just a
fun concept and it's I don't want this to turn
into necessarily knocking players, but it's a lot easier to
(01:17):
have a good month, uh and then be not as
good as baseball than to have a good month and
keep that up, especially with young baseball players and Jolly Olive.
I mean, our our tearless have basically broken the internet.
People look at me like, I'm a tearless YouTube kid,
(01:38):
and I'm like, I don't even I still don't know
what s tier is, but I like the concept of it.
So how are you feeling.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I'm feeling good. I'm excited to honestly go over this
list of players that you sent me in Bailey, because
I've done my best to watch as much baseball as
I can, kind of knowing that my team's gonna be
a little middle of the pack this year. I want
to check out, want to see you has a great
year and stuff like that, and this is a good,
I think refresher to like checking at the end of
(02:05):
the month and be like, hey, these guys are on
pace for you know, potentially award winning years, and we
have to kind of figure out who's real and who's not,
and that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It was it was fun to look back at last
year and some of the names that were discussed as
Waldo Cabrera got brought out, Josh Outman versus Jack Sawinsky,
some I don't know there was I was shocked to
see how athletic Jack Sawinsky was. I think, outman, I'm
(02:35):
not sure I was doing this year, but yeah, as
Waldo Cabrera versus Joey Weimer versus Luke Rayley was a category,
and then some Josh Young, Geraldo Perdomo, Graham Ashcraft. So
I don't know, I fun to look back at because
this isn't the stars either. Like I I sent you
(02:57):
guys over a list of names, and like Riley Green
is on there, and I think Riley Green was the
kind of prospect that's supposed to be that guy. I
don't know if he's going to be the guy that
he's currently being. I think he has like a like
a top five war in baseball, but I don't know.
Riley Green is looking like who Riley Green's supposed to be.
So that's a lot of those guys won't be shout
(03:20):
out too too much. So I think where I'll start
the place that you guys. When I got my responses
from you, the area that was the most different was pitching,
and it was kind of up and down the board
a little bit, so I wanted to lock in on
(03:41):
a couple candidates. And again, I do realize that part
of this exercise is ridiculous, but I want to hear
the baseball side of it or what you're seeing that
you think they may not begin on this level. So
I think I want to start with because I was
debating if he should even go on the list, because
(04:01):
I maybe I'm biased to this guy. Top pick also
came through the office, nice guy, young and feels like
he's getting better read debt Mers. Bailey, you were you
kind of had You used a good check mark system,
which I'm going to start implementing next year. And I
like the way you did that. You had read debt
(04:22):
meers of a couple pictures. We're gonna mention you had
him pretty highly rated. Jolly, you had him on your
no list. Again, I don't know how hard of a
no that was, But Bailey, I I'll let you kick
off with the the why you're on Readebtmers, and I
guess I will tease it a little bit for the
people you had him above. Harrison from San Francisco, uh
(04:46):
and there was one other picture name I had on
there was it another young lefty?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Did you have hicks as you want to compare the
giants pitchers?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I had Hicks on there too, which again you were
a yes, and Jolly was Gore Mackenzie gore that. I
think you were the highest on debt meers and Jolly
was kind of the lowest on denvers. So foolish start
off with the goods.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, first of all, Jolly doesn't know ball. Yes, yeah,
that's I think.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I bring the bell.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Bring the bell for a minute.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I think every disagreement should either start or begin with
the acknowledgment that the other does not know ball in
some sort of way. You do not understand sphere for example,
is another way I could put that. So one thing
I was looking at and a stat that I really
like for pictures is in zone contact rate, because you know,
(05:38):
you know, you've got guys who can you know, get
a lot of guys chasing, all guys fishing, and naturally
they're gonna whiff on those pitches when they do chase.
But in some contact rate I think is pretty predictive,
and right now the second best in zone contact rate
is a guy who's like very clearly breaking out is
very clearly special, and that's Jared Jones. He has the
second lowest in zone contact rate when he he throws
(06:00):
in the zone. They with the pitcher with the lowest
in zone contact rate right now is Redetmers among all
qualified starters. And he's made some notable but small changes.
He's moved what side of the rubber he's on. I
already changed his slider grip. He's getting better locations on
his pitches in general. And I mean because he's lumped
(06:21):
in with Goren Harrison here and those guys are quite young.
We also kind of forget Detmer's is young because he's
been around for a while now, but he's only still
just twenty four in terms of called strike plus whiff right,
which I think is a good stat for like sort
of this sample of the season one month, he's fourteenth
among qualified starters. He's between Logan Gilbert and Corbin Burns
on that. So I feel very strongly about Redetmers. And
(06:42):
we'll talk about some of the other lefties here, but
that's my pitch for him.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
It's a strong pitch, Bailey, and I want to acknowledge
that this was it wasn't one of my hard nos.
It's more so that I have gotten burned on Angel's
lefty starting pitchers before because I was a huge Patrick
Sandoval guy, made up whole video about him, really really
liked what he brought to the table, and things for
him have not panned out, And I can't speak to
(07:07):
the reliability of it, but Baseball Savon is a really
cool engine where they basically compare the likeliness of a
pitcher to another pitcher just based on pitch mix a
velocity movement. His most akin starter right now is twenty
twenty four Patrick Sandoval, the guy who pitches in the
same rotation as him. There are things to like about Deptmos, though.
One thing I noticed when I was just doing a
(07:28):
quick brushover on him is that he's throwing his change
up more than ever. Last year threw at five point
four percent. This year, you're throwing at seventeen point three percent.
So I'm sure that there's some sort of philosophy there
and rationale because his fastball did get absolutely hammered last year,
and I think that's kind of a general thing with
me Guys who don't have that kind of heater pitch
that they can throw for strikes consistently and get results
(07:50):
on always kind of scare me away and Debtmer's was
a guy that was able to do that in the past,
but just had a really tough time with it last year.
That being said, Dept Maer's had two really good months
last year where he looked the part and looked like
the guy that he was supposed to be, that former
first round pick, and the other month surrounding it sandwiching
it just weren't up to snuff at all. A lot
of walks in those month, So I think the biggest
(08:12):
thing for him was, as you said, his in zone
contact rate, Like he's able to not nibble as much
this year. I think his walks are down as well,
so I'm curious to see how much it pans out.
I think I was more so on the no side
because one small sample which I think is going to
be a recurring reason with kind of a lot of
the players that we talk about, and two just a
little bit of angels itis, Like I need to kind
(08:34):
of see a more consistent season from him, because I
feel like you can point to a lot of different
Angels pitchers and like one great month that they had
and see the potential from that, but not necessarily believe
in it all the way. But he's definitely not one
of my harder knows because I could I could fully
see him, you know, living up to some sort of
potential this year and carving out a nice year. It's
just I've been burned before and I'm worried about getting
(08:55):
burned again.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Tell me, I don't know ball.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Say that to you because I don't fully disagree with
a lot of the things he said. I will tell
you later, because I will, I'll get strongly opinionated. But
I don't have that strong a feeling on redet And
Jake is back from his two minute meter.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, sound like, sound like jolly lost the argument. I
don't have strong opinions on redebtmers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, you have to have strong opinions on redebt meers
have strong opinions on redebt mers.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
What do we what?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Will you stand up exactly?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Did we?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Uh? Please?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think I want to address he he you know,
his argument against debt meers was and it's you know,
I'm kind of with them on this is that you know,
you can have great secondaries, but if the fastball doesn't
play like your your upside is really limited, and I
think that allows us to transition to someone who's really
known for their fastball in Kyle Harrison. So, uh, if
(09:51):
you want to, if you want to recap of the argument, uh,
you know, basically I won.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So okay, I mean a really cool comparison to Patrick Sandvill.
He did.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
He did a good job and I and I can't
stand Patrick's aandaval right now and I used to love
him too.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Jolly zero Bailey. One's from Kyle Harrison. So this one
is interesting to me because I, you know, talking baseball,
it's like the best baseball show in the world or whatever.
Kyle Harrison, what do I hear? Like, top lefty prospect
in the game? This guy next mad bah blah, bah blah.
(10:25):
He's twenty two. I and again with sports gambling being
a topic, from us being sponsored by DraftKings to bb
Day's epay situation, Kyle Harrison. I watched a whole start
of his on Friday night against the Pittsburgh Pirates because
(10:46):
I bet on the game, just straight up. I just
had it on my phone and I was like, I
don't know, I'm in on this and it was an
ugly start. He there was traffic on the bases every inning.
I wasn't super impressed by his off speed, like it
was very he was. He started using it as a
get me over strike to start hitters off. He got
(11:09):
better as the game went, and like you mentioned with
the fastball Bailey, it was very much like a just
a lefty sling, like he could throw it up and
away every time, and I think batters would really struggle
with it because you kind of can't tell how much
it's gonna run and where it's gonna end up. So
I don't know. It's a very interesting case study for
(11:31):
me and someone that I talk about on Talking Baseball Chunk,
if you're talking about the Giants outlook this year, a
guy that's been heralded as a massive prospect. I get
a six inning sample size from him. That's six innings clean,
but it actually wasn't pretty. So I don't know. In
a way, I'm looking at him like, yeah, this guy's
(11:52):
a lefty. You know he's gonna grind out innings, but
he'll get it done when he needs to. That guy
can pitch where he was a swing away having an
awful start, So I'm I'm very interested to hear what
you guys see in Kyle Harrison.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Bailey, would you like to I.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Will start jolly.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
I was flipping through the dictionary earlier today and I
looked up ball nowher and your picture was nowhere.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
To be found.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So so Kyle Harrison. It's about the fastball, right, as
Jake alluded to. He throws his fastball at the major
league level this year sixty five percent of the time.
It is one of the most thrown pitches in Major
League Baseball right now, and he dominated with it in
the minors and that's how he got that, you know,
(12:41):
reputation as being the top left handed pitching prospect in baseball.
And when he came up last year you could kind
of see why. It's because he throws from a very
funky armslot. His velo isn't that crazy, but his his
release point is so low. It's about five feet, which
is well below the league average. And the key was
that he's able to throw from that lower release and
(13:03):
then put plenty of backspin, get plenty of carry on
that fastball, and hopefully throw it high in the zone
and that flat vertical approach angle. The problem is last
year he was inducing like fourteen inches of vertical break,
which from that release point is pretty good. This year,
he's more like eleven to twelve. And I honestly think
(13:24):
in the minors, with how dominant he was, I don't
have access hat pitch data, I bet he was doing
better than that fourteen. So I honestly think that the
fastball pitch shape is just all out of whack for
him right now. And I find that really concerning. They
have Snell on il right now, and so you know,
there is a there's a need for you know, stability
within that rotation. You'll recall last year they had like
(13:46):
two legit starters down the stretch and it was just
all like you know, bullpen type games basically, you know,
or you know, Brian Walker throws three innings and then
we turn it over the bullpen. But you know, he's
he's gonna have to in order to fix this, He's
gonna have to do it at the big league level,
it seems. But honestly, if it was a different situation,
a better rotation, a better team overre all, like I
(14:07):
would like that that honestly almost would scream like triple
A to me, you know, like, go figure out your
pitch shape. This is your most important pitch. So I'm
I'm concerned with him. And another thing I'll compare him
on Debtmer's with is the defense. The quality of defense
these guys play behind it or have behind them is
night and day. The Giants are so improved they signed Chapman,
they signed the lead. Those guys are like legit great
(14:28):
defenders of their positions. The Angels defenses really isn't that great.
So you know, in terms of run prevention, you know
they may end up doing, you know, somewhat similarly, at
least for a smaller sample. But I mean, don't forget
that that Detmers gets not a lot of help and
Harrison's gonna get plenty of help between the defense and
that ballpark.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
So kinda, I mean, part of your argument kind of
sounded like you liked him a little bit, But I
understand where you're coming from with just his hit ability.
Here's what I'll say. So, part of the reason why
Kyle Harrison was on my like list, whatever we want
to call it, make it break out, whatever, is that
I got to watch him pitch, and I had a
really good time watching him pitch. I think my viewing
experience was different to yours. He is not close to
(15:11):
the comparison that I'm making yet, but there are parts
of his body of work that really liken his approach
to someone like George Kirby. The guy is living in
the zone a ton. He trusts his fastball a ton.
He's a pinpoint control kind of guy. He has a
top ten lowest walk rate in baseball right now at
three point seven percent. And Bailey, every year I get
(15:34):
played by vertical approach angle. I'm never gonna stop getting
played by it. I'm going to continue to fall in
love with that stack because I just think it makes
the fastball so impressive when it's thrown from a lower
print plane. It's why I picked Christian Haavier last year
and got burned. It's why I picked Freddy Peralta this
year and could potentially get burned again. But right now,
Kyle Harrison sports one of the lowest vertical approach angles
(15:56):
in baseball, negative four point one degrees on his fast
and I just think that'll really help it play in
the long term. I know what you were saying about
the shape of his fastball right now, it's very hittable,
but I just think the guy's twenty two years old.
I think the velocity will continue to improve. I think
he sat like ninety three point yeah, ninety three point
six last year, ninety three this year, so I'm curious
to see what the true velocity is there. But again,
(16:20):
it does come down to can you develop a secondary
that you trust, because he kind of throws all three
of them some I mean, I guess the slurve and
the change up much more, but not confidently compared to
his fastball, which is at sixty five point four percent.
It's going to be about developing that secondary pitch and
managing contact, and like you said, the Giants defense can
really help out in that department. I don't think he's
(16:41):
ACE caliber yet. I think the Giants can rely on
other guys in the rotation, probably another one that we'll
talk about in a little bit. But I like a
lot about the specs of Kyle Harrison. I do think
he'll improve upon you know what has been a lot
of hard hits against him in April. I just think
it's a little bit of growing pants.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Damn dunked on like that, foolish, I will say, with
regards to the verticalot proch angle, like I mean, okay,
I could have an awesome verticalot proch angle.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Like I'm short, I could just throw the blow or
release the ball out and throw it high.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
That's all you have to do, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So I think for me it's like you have to
get the vertical movement behind that pitch in.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Order for it to really which he did.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
He's at point he did have that, but he doesn't
have it this year, not yet.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Okay, Yeah, I'm fascinated to see because again watching it,
I I used to get nervous about doing like the
the MLB Scout type stuff because I end of the day,
I I don't know enough. But also at the end
of the day, like who cares a little bit? Like
(17:47):
you know, when Oswaldo was awful last year, Oh it's
always the Yankees. When Oswaldo was awful last year, it's like, well,
you know, I still like his swing. He can play
every position that if he can be a g average hitter,
like I think that's in him somewhere. For Kyle Harrison,
with that fastball, it's currently a step up, like if
he can do anything else, whether it's get back to
(18:10):
his fastball being better, learn how to throw his slurve better,
or change up or whatever it is. I mean, he
navigated a Pittsburgh lineup that I'd have to get in
the stats a little more. But I know, keep Ryan
verse lefties and Brian Reynolds versus lefties. I think they
they had a right handed hitting lineup that again, for
(18:33):
Kyle Harrison, was tough to navigate. He navigated well on
that night. And I'm I'm gonna like to think someone
that a lefty pitcher with decent arm talent and a
good fastball, maybe he knows how to pitch a little bit.
Or we could be coming up for air in a
couple months and it's like, hey, Kyle Harrison, figure something
(18:55):
else out, dude, And that's kind of the beauty of baseball.
Look at Okay, last time it won't be the last
time Carlos Rodan is like pitching now.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
It won't be the last time Carlos Rodan.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Is pitching now, which kind of blew my mind because
I was I was standing at the table being like,
hey man, this guy was one of the best pitchers
in baseball, going fastball slider ninety five percent of the time.
Why do the Yankees need to change him? He's like
changing and he kind of needs it. So Kyle Harrison
and every baseball player runs into this. I'm twenty two
(19:27):
years old, twenty two I'm rooting for him. Learn from Snell,
learn from Robbie Ray.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Robbie Raight.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
God, those giants, they're running a pretty weird out of
the park baseball team, right they are? They really are.
Let's I guess we'll keep it giant focused for now, Jolly,
I will let you kick off because this one seemed
I almost didn't put this one on the sheet because
it felt like a layup. Everyone has always loved Jordan
(19:56):
Hicks his arm talent for obvious reasons, you know, casually
pumping one hundred four mile per hour sinkers. I think,
I hope it's a time we look back on baseball
and we're like, what was happening for a little bit?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Why was this whole?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I don't think it's going away. But now the fastball
is sitting at ninety six miles per hour. He's throwing
that fifty one percent of time. The baseball savant is
very red. That little what is it a split change
he's thrown a little split finger looks like kind of
a wipeout pitch. He's setting career highs and strikeouts, and
here's Happy Grape saying he's not about it. Jolly, what's
(20:35):
that about?
Speaker 4 (20:36):
I got I have to be a hater. I'm sorry, Okay,
I think that Jordan Hicks let the higher fuel you.
Right now, Jordan Hicks is one of the most impressive
pitchers in baseball. But three months from now, I don't
know where he'll be because he's never pitched three months
of baseball. He's never pitched that inning total for a
(20:56):
starting pitcher. The highest inning total of his career was
in twenty eight team seventy seven and two thirds. That
was a long time ago. That was a very different Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Team in a seventy seven.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Seventy seven and two thirds. I think in the miners
he got maybe a little bit higher. I'll double check
that real quid. Yeah, he hasn't one hundred and five
in the miners the year before, So that as homer
as this argument might be, that is the argument I'm
making is that people, the Cardinals have tried this experiment before.
It has worked in spades, but something always bottoms out
(21:26):
with Jordan Hicks. Now, the velocity dip is the most
interesting thing because it's very obviously purposeful, taking him down
from one hundred to ninety five and making him some
sort of sinker ball or ground ball pitcher. His launch
angle is also the highest it's ever been. It's at
seven point one right now. It's never been higher than
one point four, which I did find a little interesting. Again,
(21:46):
small sample side. It's only been six starts, so outside
of that, you can't argue his stuff. You can't argue
the velocity. I think that those things will continue to play.
It's just ken Jordan Hicks make five starts a month
for a team that absolutely needs him to because they're
having rotation problems right now, with the question marks around
Kyle Harrison, with Snail's injury, Robbie Ray out until July,
(22:08):
I don't know, but if he does, I'm fully prepared
to eat crote because he looks very impressive right now.
It's just I haven't seen it yet, so it's hard
to visualize.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Okay, Bailey, listen, cheerful Cherry.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Well.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
First, I mean, this is something that you wouldn't disagree
with me on. But what I'm enjoying about this Jordan
Hicks is that even in his days as a reliever.
What he does profiles better as a starter in a way,
like he has like a legit three pitchment. Yes, the
sinker's legit, the splitter is legit, like Jake said, the
sweeper's legit. But what's what's nice about him is like, Okay,
(22:48):
if he was like a prototypical closer, right, you know,
here's the guy who comes in, doesn't get a ton
of swifts, doesn't get a ton of swings and misses,
but you know, rocks up those ground balls. That was
kind of his game, Star Grabborol esque. And that's another
guy who was seen as a Frenchy starter at times.
And so the the what I'm trying to say is,
you know, if your closer comes in and he gets
(23:09):
through the ninth inning and twenty five pitches because he
walked a couple of eyes and he struck out the
next three, you don't really care. At the end of
the day, You're just glad he got the safe we're
starting pitcher. That efficiency, that that ability to you know,
navigate through a lineup to get those ground balls is everything,
you know. And and he as a reliever has proven
he's capable of that, and he's proven to be efficient
(23:30):
enough as a starter as well.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So that's that's what I really like about him.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
And with the innings concerns, like, I mean, I totally
get it, but I mean I think you could say
that about literally any single pitcher ever pitching right now, like, oh,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
If he'll make it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I don't know if he'll get to throw one hundred
and fifty one hundred and sixty innings this year. Well
I could say that about everybody, you know. And so
all I know is he's pitching great now. And one
thing I do recall, and look, this is totally different
from someone who's you know, binner or reliever. For all
his time in the majors, he was. He was a
star harder in the minor leagues. I will I will
point out, uh but uh, you know, I remember, you know,
(24:05):
after twenty twenty, when everyone had like a weird shortened year,
the way a lot of managers handled it was, you know,
there get Like I remember Counsel said this explicitly. He said,
however many innings they threw in twenty twenty will do
that plus one hundred, you know, so like he he understood,
and those were I mean, those were starters like Burns
(24:26):
and Woodruff still, but that he understood that you can
you can ramp that up. You know, look at what
you know Seth Lugo did last year converting from relief
to starting.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So again, the injury stuff, you.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Know, I don't know about I don't I personally don't
really speculate about it unless they have just an insane,
insane history. But I know Jordan Hicks is pitching great
right now, and that also you don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Ball hmmm, sum and he wins. At the end, I was,
I was getting comfortable.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, I there's a couple of things going on around here,
because it's it's the world of pitching right now. When
when injuries get brought up and you see someone that
throws like this, and the Cardinals tried to do the
starter thing with him a couple times and it didn't
It didn't really happen at the big league level. I
do think one of the next things teams are going
to try is the Seth Lugo, Michael King, Jordan Hicks,
(25:18):
where if you're if you're performing out of the bullpen
and you have a pitch mix, why not open that
road back up again? Even like It'll be interesting to
see how the rest of this year goes, because I
think even if the Giants were to get a buck
twenty innings out of Jordan Hicks this year, that's still
a massive win. With the contract he's got. In their
(25:42):
perfect world, they're making a wild card and maybe he
transitions to a two winning role out of the playoffs
to finish this year or something like that. I the
science of it is something that I should never be
speaking on, but I think where I can actually be
good is I I'm I'm only gonna speak on the
(26:02):
stuff that I actually think we can use as of now.
And in the pitching injury world, I think one of
the things proven is that the the UCL or everything
in here, it's fully developed at age twenty seven. So
I think we are going to see a lot of guys,
especially younger, take the bullpen route for a little bit
(26:26):
and and try to save themselves that way and then
make the transition, which that used to be so faupa.
On baseball, I mean, you know job at Chamberlain Yankees,
there is that I don't know. I think we're going
to start to see more of this because people will
have adult elbows and hopefully that can be a solution
(26:49):
for the actual pitching performance wise, It'll be like anyone.
It'll be interesting to see second time through the league,
like this is a new version of Jordan Hicks. But
I also, from what you were saying before for Bailey,
the defense behind him, like you know, Jimmy doesn't have
a poker face. Uh, he was baseball. Jimmy was drooling
(27:10):
because he was like, wait, they've got Matt Chapman behind
Jordan Hicks. You know, Nick Ahmed has been picking it
over there that like it's a it's a fun thing
that hopefully, I don't know, we maybe we're seeing something
in baseball where it's like, hey, Jordan Hicks, if you
get two strikes, punch him out. But let that sink
or run because you got fellows behind you.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
It's the Giants part of shift.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, you know, let's keep it moving to Keaton Win
and Logan Webb.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I could talk about Keaton Win all day, baby.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And that's what I was worried about. That's why we're
not talking about Keaton Win. Although all he's been doing
is winning lately. There is another win coming up. Tease. Uh,
let's get you guys aligned for a little bit because
there was there was a couple guys that you both
had as breakouts, So this can be the good let's
(28:01):
taste some fellas section. I agree more than you Richie
Pelasio switch a couple things in play here. We met
Richie Pelasios and he was really nice, which sometimes I
put up a reverse bias against that. I was like,
I don't know, if this guy is so nice, can
he be the nine hundred ops guy that wasn't really
(28:24):
a top prospect that now the Rays are gonna raise with.
And I see Rays bullshit every year a part in
my French. But you know, we talked Luke Railey last
year that they have now turned into their starting shortstop
in Caballio. Yandi Dias won the batting title last year
and I'm team Yandi and he's gonna pick it back
up this year. But the Rays are going to raise that.
(28:48):
I was surprised that both of you had Richie Pelasio's
as breakout, so foolish if you want to start with Richie.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, I had him as breakout before the season, even
I mean not sorry, sorry to flex that he was.
I he was posting like, uh, this is this is
deep research. He was posting like Instagram stories of him
in the cage. Yeah, and he was like he was
topping his max exit velos from like in game situations,
(29:16):
just like you know, hitting BP basically.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Uh so, like he was he was.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Like dedicated to adding pop and he uh you know,
went to drive line and he's got all the I mean, honestly,
if you just want to play it by the teams,
he has all the makings of a development success because
he's former Cardinals outfielder goes to the race.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I mean that I hate to. I hate to, but
it's that. But it's true.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It's true, and and and what's exciting about Plastius is
he's always been a disciplined hitter in the sense that
he's always had good ratios in terms of his strikeouts
and walks.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
That's that was a constant trim all throughout the miners.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
But then when you have a guy who's like that
and then all of a sudden they had power, you
just get a really good hitter, you get a really
good baseball player, you get you know. So that's what
Jose Ramirez did. Basically, I'm not saying he's the next
Jose Ramirez. But you know, so I'm really excited about
Ritchie Pelasios because it's basically just a story of guy
goes from bad situation to good situation, guy who is disciplined,
(30:15):
adds power and still seems to have that discipline. It's just, Yeah,
it seems like a breakout to me.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
A big part of the equation here that you built
up a little bit. Not only is he a former
Cardinals outfielder, he's also a former Guardians outfielder, which is
also a theme of them just cutting away guys. I
could easily be part of their lineup, but they're doing fine,
so I don't really need them. Pelasius, you covered a
lot of bases there. He's a guy that had a
really good end of last year, and I find myself
(30:43):
in the off season getting caught up on that a
lot because it's like, oh, what, what did they figure
out in the final two months that made things click
when he was going with the Cardinals there when they
made that trade for Kittridge. So far it's working out.
But when they made that trade, I was like, this
has disaster written all over at Kiittridge. Injury guy hasn't
had a full season since twenty one, Plasios on a
verge of a breakout. So far, it's going well for
(31:05):
both sides. But I really like what I've seen from
him so far. It's kind of a little bit what
they did with Esak Parades, Like just hit the ball
as hard as you can, like raise that launch angle
as much as you kind of think he's up like
seven degrees from last year. The walks up, the strikeout
is also up, which is kind of a common theme
with raised hitters, like they've been punching out a ton,
even Yandi after winning the batting title last year, just
(31:28):
a lot to like. I think, I think fools. She
hit on most of it there. This one's more of
a vibes one for me. It just kind of it
feels like it's just gonna click. It feels like it's
just gonna work.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Man. I was surprised when I looked at the minor
league numbers for Richie Pelasios two eighty eight, three ninety
two on base eight thirty nine oh ps. So when
you mentioned the power side of it kicking in a
little more like that could be a game changer for him,
because if you have enough of the hit tool, you
have enough of the on base tool and I I
absolutely love the Cardinals outfield tree that's now not with
(32:05):
them because, uh, just a reminder of this baseball season
is getting underway, and it's a lot of like, well,
you know, the Cardinals are thirteen and fifteen, let's see
what happens. They're twenty seventh and ops twenty eighth in
runs Like the Cardinals would kill for Richie Palasios right now,
and yet no offense to Alec Burleson, but he's currently
(32:26):
listed as their starting left fielder. Alec Burrowson looks like
an alex boy. God, good for him. Deebs, what was
that was his couch dropped coffee? Caught it? Wow? That
was sick. No big deal, break out camera switch to them.
Let's all right, yay, we're happy. Let's let's care daringry again.
(32:50):
This is what the people want. Uh in this one,
I think statistically again, how Foolish ranked his chart. I
think you guys were the furthest part on Mason win, No,
Keaton win today, Mason win. I'm gonna let Jolly go
first because he's on the bus. He admitted there might
(33:11):
be a little recency bias because he just watched him
play his Metropolitans. But what did you see, j'all?
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I mean, the thing that jumps to everybody's mind is
that he I think he has like the strongest arm
of any infielder ever in the history of the sport,
which is pretty damn cool. But there's obviously a lot
more to the game than just that. You are, right, Jake.
The Cardinals were just in town, so I did just
watch him play, and I follow a decent bit of
Cardinals Twitter, and I like to see what they're up
(33:38):
to because they do have a lot of exciting young players.
There's just sometimes they don't always stick with the team.
Like we mentioned before, Mason Win. It's a tale of
two approaches right now. He is red bubble, blue bubble
and baseball Savona if we want to get as surface
level as possible. But the red bubbles he has are
the ones that I like. Plate discipline, it's something I
value a lot in younger players. This guy is an
(34:00):
other twenty two year old, just like Kyle Harrison. He's
seventy six percent tile and walk rate, eighty six in
wifth rate, ninety percent tile in sweet spot percentage. So
pitch selection right now has been going pretty well for him.
That being said, the exit velocities aren't quite there. He's
not hitting the ball as hard as he possibly can.
Yet outs above average doesn't like him, which I was
(34:20):
a little shocked by because you know, from the eye
test I had a final verdict of that boy nice
at shortstop. But I guess Savant might disagree to a
little bit of a term there. But Yeah, the biggest
things for me is that he's hitting the fastball, which
is important. I think if you're not getting blown up
by fastballs at a young age, I think that like
can really translate well going forward. It's gonna be a
little bit of a second tour around the league, Like
(34:41):
you mentioned before with one of our other topics. Can
he adjust, Will pitchers figure out how to approach against him?
Will they throw him fastballs less? That's all going to
be part of the equation there. But I do like
what I've seen from Mason Win so far. I just
think that like the good eye and the good defense
is enough for me to kind of buy in a
little bit of stock for him and young agent see
how he develops. And he's also just a kid that
(35:03):
the Cardinals have been very excited about for a while
and now he's finally here.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Fulkish No, I mean what's said is I like pretty much,
I pretty much totally agree with what he just said.
Like he's he's taking sort of a long term mist
view of Mason Wynn and who he is, which like, yeah,
I'm totally downe with that. But I mean, if we're
talking short term, let's say from May onward to the
(35:30):
end of the twenty twenty four season, this guy, well,
this year's just bab bitpen. I mean, I think I
think anyone can can see that. So far he has
eight hundred oh ps. He's just bab bitpen right now.
But you know what, for me, offensively, which is what
I'm focused on, because I think we know what the
defensive talent is. He has one hundred and sixty career
(35:52):
batted balls at the major league level and two barrels.
So for me, I'm kind of a barrel's ar king guy.
You know, you can get away with the lower barreled
ball approach if you have excellent ratios and strikeouts and walks.
He doesn't really have that. He's pretty averagish in both
those areas. So offensively, I'm just not really excited by
(36:16):
him right now. He's very young and he can develop
that aspect of his game. But the defense is legit.
Do you remember that thing last year where I mean
maybe it was overblown where Justin Turner made some comments
a little bit snarky about his arm strength because he
was lined up in the minors and he's talking about
how it's not a big deal. It is a big
deal because when you have that arm strength, that means
(36:37):
you can take that extra little bit, that extra little
fraction of a second to really make the play. You know,
make sure you receive the ball cleanly, transferred cleanly, because
you know, if you have the arm strength, you can
still throw out the runner by half a step. So
I love that for him, but offensively not excited no
barrels this year. I'm not going to get excited for
no barrels.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
In that I want to build off the arm strength
thing you mentioned there. In the final game of Mets Cars,
I think they had like a prime opportunity to win
the game. They threw up a scoreless tenth. They had
the runner at third I think with one outrunners on
the corners and DJ Stewart not a fast runner, but
HiT's like a pretty slow ground ball, a very beatable
ground ball, and he gets the feed and he I
(37:15):
got to see his arm at full strength, absolutely whipping it,
and that throw almost won the Cardinals the game and
got them a sweep because they scored around the next inning.
That's the kind of difference that defensive talent can make.
And you know, just one micro game situation. But honestly,
I didn't know that barrel stat that's pretty alarming, Oh,
(37:36):
pretty alarming.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Has he admitted defeat?
Speaker 1 (37:42):
It's a I was gonna say, it's it.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, we agree, we agree long term, but short term avance.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I don't think he's an All Star this year.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
It seems like Mason Win loves bad bippen bud. He's
got a barrel's problem. You know what I'm saying. That
was pretty good, so good. I'm rooting from well, it's
funny you say that.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Tell me about Oswald for well, the arm strength.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I'm a little bit rooting for Mason Win just because
after that Cardinals outfield thing, they kind of need a win.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Ironically, his last name and currently three wins in baseball.
We mentioned Keaton also cole Win. Nobody related w I
n N. I don't know, that's something I'm I'm rooting
for Mason Win. Yeah, I mean there's a little bit
of prototypical kind of light hitting shortstop. He doesn't have
have the home run this year. I'm interested to watch.
(38:37):
I I don't know, I've I've got a I've got
a bad feeling that the Cardinals, this Cardinals team could
be on their last hurrah a little bit, whatever that
means for them, and I hope Mason Win is part
of the solution to the next Cardinals team. We're talking
about the arm strength thing of mixed results because I
(39:01):
was on a Dansby Swanson kind of witch hunt the
past couple of years of like everyone's saying that he
doesn't have a strong arm, but he's the best defensive
shortstop in the game. Pretty much after seeing that double
play that I watched live, because again I'm a common
note ball knower and I was going to bring that
(39:22):
up if Jolly did not, and the Yankees middle infield
is currently awful at turning double plays, that arm strength
should matter and like you were saying, foolish if he
can even adapt his game to make the play, trust
(39:43):
the arm a little more. Yeah, he has all the
abilities to be a talented shortstop that if you're doing
anything offensively because one more ball knowing flex I was
watching my Snakes late last night. Kevin Newman, Oh my.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
God, just hangs around, doesn't he.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
There's a reason why he was making plays at shortstop.
That if you showed a new fan one game and
you were like, hey, who are some of these best
players on the field Snake's Dodgers, they'd be like, oh,
I don't know that Otani fella. And that's without knowing
he hits Mookie probably gets a vote. Dude. Kevin Newman
made a couple of plays at short that I I
(40:23):
was kind of personally mad at him because he was
part of a Cole Tucker issue in Pittsburgh for a
little bit and then he basically absolved everything in two plays.
It's kind of thick.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
They should have just brought back Nick Ahmed. If we're
gonna do this, come on, come on. He looks disgusting
in a Giant's uniform. It makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Blaze Alexander bro can't feel and Jordan Lawler that's an arm.
They've got to start winning some games in the desert.
By the way, I had to.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
I have to get this in. You mentioned the third
win cole Win. I'd never heard of him, just hopped
on his page. No hit innings for the Rangers this year.
One walk the bullpen.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
That's it's crazy, that's the Rangers factory. Uh. I have
one other hitter. Uh that you guys were opposite ends
of the spectrum on foolish. I don't think you were
as passionate about this one. But it's a player that
turned heads. I know again kind of mocking me and
(41:24):
Trev on Talking Baseball. Look at Michael Bush, Dude, this
guy's just hitting homeless. He was a prospect for the
for the Dodgers and now he just hits home is
for the Cubs. Subscribe Talking Baseball for that content. Uh,
you guys ended up on the opposite sides, Bailey, I'll
let you start.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Why don't we let Charlie start? Because I think I've
been going first to lot?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Oh wow, Scar, Yeah, a little bit of fear Pointlly.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Let's go. I don't even have to explain now he's
just scared now.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
It's a it's a little bit a mixed bag here.
There's a lot to like in his peripheral. He's hitting
the ball really hard. I think we we're all a
little confused when the Cubs made that trade in the
offseason because there were so many years of like Matt
Murvis hype, and I thought that there was like a
different plan going forward. Instead it's Michael Bush and he's
gotten off to a really nice start. But I do
think the guy is a defensive liability, and I do
(42:16):
think that matters in this equation. It's obviously a different
ballgame for first baseman. They play by different rules and
that's okay, But he's a big time strikeout guy as well.
And I mean, if you're going to hit home runs,
that's not gonna matter as much. There's so many different
first basemen you can point to in the league that
kind of go by that mantra. So as long as
he can continue hitting the ball hard, there's no reason
(42:37):
to bet against him. I am just a little worried about,
you know, how the league will see him on the
second time around. I mean, with the Dodgers, there's so
much talent on that roster it's really hard to get
any sort of consistent starting role and consistent playing time.
Now he's in that situation with the Cups, and he's
flourishing in his first month. I just think we've seen
so many first basement of years past that have come
(42:57):
up and have had great spurts, and then their second
time around they never fully get over that humph. So
for Michael Bush, it could be a story of a
nice late bloomer who finally got an opportunity and really
made the most of it on a pretty good Cups
team right now. But I just I don't really have
that belief. That's that's kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
I you know, I used to be like you, I
hated this trade when it went through. I absolutely hated it,
the Mervis hype. I was actually more of a of
a Patrick Wisdom apologist if anything. I was like, how
much better is this guy than Patrick Wisdom?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Really?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
And you know, those the prospects that the Dodgers got
in return, like Young a lot of upside, you know.
I from what I've seen this past month, I've I've
sort of flipped on that. I mean, I think the
the dodd I mean, the Dodgers will probably develop those
prospects fine enough.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
But Bush looks pretty legit.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
I think I think the case will come down a
little bit just historically based on what he's done in
the miners and some of his contact rates. But I mean,
if you you know, if you want to compare him
to like his cup of coffee with the Dodgers last year,
it is night and day. I mean, with the Dodgers
he hit twice as many ground balls as fly balls.
With the Cubs, he's twice as many fly balls as
ground balls, and that's with the same strikeout and walk rate.
(44:18):
So yeah, for me, it's like I hated this trade.
But then and you're you're totally right about the defense too.
Like he he's like they thought maybe they were getting
some versatility. He cannot play a position other than first.
Speaker 4 (44:31):
Base, he's think, and I think if he's dhing, then
like I think I go from knowing him to just
kind of indifferent, Like, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Think that's but this is I mean, this is the
opposite of the Mason win. This is just barrels Gobert
basically at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
And this is also like a.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
Little bit of April Wrigley too, like usually that kind
of cats and he had a really good first month,
so that you can kind of swing that way too.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Yeah, I it like you guys both mentioned it was
an odd trade. It was a wait, like, you know,
top prospects that we talk ourselves into, and especially I
always take a step back because no one loves them
more than the team they're currently on, like to have
(45:15):
a top one hundred prospect and Michael Bush and the
numbers he put up at double A and triple A
to see him flipped as part of a roster crunch
move for two prospects coming back that a there's like,
there's just a sniff test that doesn't make sense. You're like, okay,
so are we gonna are those two Dodger players future
(45:36):
All stars? Like that? How does this magic show end?
And then Michael Bush comes out and he has the
big first month that it's like it goes the other
way that I'm looking at a spray chart right now
and I'm I'm saying, sleeping cashman again outside the stadium,
stop bringing up the Yanks.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
I don't I want to root for my I want
to believe. I want to say, like, hey, this is
a good story of a prospect who put in the time,
doesn't get the opportunity till he's twenty five, twenty six.
It all clicks. He's the Cubby first baseman for the
future after looking at last year's breakout in fake Out list,
(46:18):
and like you're mentioned with some of the defense, things
can get slippery in baseball real quick. This is a
team that like Saya Suzuki, who I think, we're all
stands up on this pod. Like he got benched by
the Cubs last year for a little bit because he
had like a seven to seventy oz ps and was
in a funk. Like if Michael Bush goes into a funk,
(46:38):
if you're not playing a good first base, he can't
play anywhere else. That's when baseball can get tough on you.
And maybe that was the Dodgers' equation when they were
trading him. We've been we've been laughing at the William
Contreras Sean Murphy A's trade recently because it's tough to
go back and it was like, wait, well, does William
Contreras have a position catching school? And now it it's like, wait,
(47:03):
why were the Brewers even involved in this trade? Never
mind getting William Contreras. So at the same time, if
Michael Bush, who's been looking for a position, can get
a little more comfortable at first base, can ride out
a summer in Wrigley. You could be talking about a
guy in his rookie year having a thirty homer season
or something like that. So, uh, Cubs fans, I'm interested
(47:23):
what you guys are seeing day and day out because
I want to root Michael Bush. I guess if if
I had to put money on it right now, I
would lean fake out a little bit. Just from all
the sniff test stuff I said leading.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Up to that, I think, well, so I means jolly
wins because I've seen your your DFS rankings. Yeah, and
I mean again you mentioned that dictionary you looked up.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Hey, I stop the fighting. I don't. I don't. I
don't need it. Most of the episode, Well, watch watching
his two brother and arms go at it. How about this,
I'll go open board for a little bit. Because I
sent you guys a lot of names. It was a
pretty daunting text. The first time I sent it to Bailey,
(48:11):
I copied him paste for my email and it didn't
space out properly at all. So it is just a
bulk text of like basically every young name in baseball.
Both of you guys had been Rourtfreds fake out, which
I didn't like. I guess of all the names on
the list, because there was about thirty or so Bailey,
(48:33):
if I said, hey, here's two minutes on the clock,
give one of the guys you either want to talk
about in a positive or negative light.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
I'm gonna go Stephen Kwan. Okay, we've seen what he
did as a rookie. He took a step back, but
his career high going into this year was six home
runs and he has three already. And it's kind of
a similar story to Placios. He went through an off
season like batspeed improvement and as a result, he's run
(49:02):
into a few while still being Stephen Kwan, he still
maintains that all the great Stephen Kwan things that make
Stephen Kwan Stephen Kwan. If he hits ten homers this year,
his numbers could be just awesome because you know, he's
probably gonna walk about as much as he strikes out.
He's gonna hit for average. So I love me some
Stephen Kuwan, and you know, cause you gave me, you
(49:22):
gave me a little bit of time. I'm gonna go
for a surprise fake out, a fake out that is
gonna blow people's minds considering the start this guy is on.
I'm just Jordan Westburg. I'm not totally sold. I'm sorry,
I'm not I'm not totally sold. Even throughout his prospectum.
I would look at it long term and be like, well, gee,
if they want to play Mayo and Henderson and Holiday
in the same infield, where does Westbrook go, you know?
(49:45):
Or is Mayo a first baseman or a corner outfielder?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Could or you know? And where's cold Kowser fit into this? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (49:51):
My thing with with Westburg is just the just his
his discipline. Overall, the the whiffs and the chase, they're
not that impressive to me. He's he's twenty five, which
is young, but it's not young young like some of
these other Orioles prospects we've seen come up that said
I have him on my fantasy team and he's absolutely
killing it.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
I ironically just picked him up too. And I will say
point to Jolly. Unfortunately, I mentioned how you made your
list and you had the check Mark x mark system. Jolly,
I sent it over and again. I wanted to get
guys that you guys were more passionate about I didn't
want to just throw something out there. Jolly sent over
(50:35):
a list of guys at the bottom of his sheet
that he listed as unsure. Jordan Westberg led the list
Dalton Varsher, Varshow, Tanner Hawk, Bryce Miller, Brady Singer, and
Jose Burrios, which I was asking if you guys thought
there was another level in there. And now I'm kind
of laughing because we we live in an area of
(50:57):
sports media where you know, ESPN for years has gone
with the first take, battle it out. I almost wish
I did this whole segment as the unsure pile, and
we all just looked at each other like, I don't
fucking know.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
One hour of shrugging.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Yeah, just just talking about Dalton Varshow and be like, I.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
Don't have no idea, honestly, the Blue Jays, why don't
I just put them in the unsure pile, all of them?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
I think Bailey the last we're at the end of
last year when we talked, you were on a a
little bit. This could be the end of the Blue Jays.
Are you is that flag planted or are you just
kind of in the background waiting to see.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yeah, I'm just I'm quietly waiting for their downfall, but
I'm not saying anything yet.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Okay, uh, jolly al with that uh that big boy
list I sent over to you. Who's Who's someone that
you're feeling a little passionate about.
Speaker 4 (51:51):
I want to give Jordan Wesburg a little bit of
his fourth highest and hard hit rate right now. But
I do agree, I don't really know what he is
and he can probably hide in the Orioles lineup. I
have to take this time to eat some crow on
Alec Bohm because he's off to an amazing start. He
is crushing the ball. His defense looks like he's sort
(52:12):
of going towards the Austin Riley path of getting steadily
better every year until he's at a point where he's
either serviceable or good. And his walk rate is doubled
between years. So not only is he swinging at better pitches,
he's taken the bad ones now, which is a big
problem for him the past. So shout out to Alec Boum.
He's kind of carrying the Phillies offense right now. They
have like a muted version of Bryce Harper. They have
(52:34):
Schober doing his thing, and then everybody else is struggling,
so they're not where they are without him, so I
definitely have to eat some crow there. Bailey. I want
to make sure you know this. When we did our
left field tier list, I fought tooth and nail to
get Stephen Kwan up the tier list. These two did
not want him up, so I lost that battle and
he's in the middle now and I want that grievance
aired live on television, So that's what I'm doing. One
(52:57):
last thing, Patrick Bailey's really good, isn't live intell. Patrick
Bailey's insanely good. He was really good when he came
up last year, and then he got figured out a
little bit, had a really tough end of the year.
I think everyone who was kind of paying attention knew
that wasn't who he is, and now he's showing us
who he is, which is the promised catcher of the
future for the San Francisco Giants. Outside of that, a
(53:18):
lot of these names I find interesting. I don't have
a strong opinion on a lot of them. I don't
really know what the future holds for a lot of
the unproven guy like will You're or Bray You, I
don't know. He's Right now, the Alex Vdugo decision looks
pretty good by the Red Sox, but I don't know
how much that's gonna pan out. We'll see. Zach Lyttel,
Is he not a reliever? Is he actually a very
good starter? Did the race work their magic? I don't know,
(53:39):
but that's the beauty of the first month of baseball.
The possibilities are endless.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Zach Lyttel, Do I have to put him on my Yeah?
I think he's I'm going to add him to my
reliever starter list.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
Yeah, he qualifies.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Not not as sexy as some of the other names.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
He was a the Lopez who.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Let's get those does he lead the league and her?
Let's get those UCLs healthy and full at twenty seven
and then guys can go do whatever they want. Yeah, Ran,
although I wasn't even gonna make him an option just
because he's been like the best. Yeah, and again he
probably doesn't keep up that pace, but maybe it's some braves.
Speaker 4 (54:19):
Some braves, bullshit, god sev he's been good.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Don't don't we don't no Yankees yank no Yankees.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
To please let me SEVENO. He reminds me of Severino
when he was on the Yankees.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
You know, actually, have you seen Louise? Have you seen
Luis Heal? He's actually traded zach Utel for high ma Garcia.
Speaker 4 (54:43):
Wow, everything's connected.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
You guys brought up Yanks.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, I know, we didn't say we didn't say nothing.
Let me see, is there any other player that I
have to highlight?
Speaker 4 (54:58):
Bryce ter has been really good?
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah? Yes, I was surprised no one took took the
bait on Bryce Terrang because even if you don't think
he's going to keep up at that level, which I
don't think anyone does, he has the speed and defense
that he should be able to stick around and kind
of like what we what you mentioned with Stephen Kwan
and uh, kind of the opposite of the Michael Bush fade,
(55:20):
Like even if Bryce Terrang isn't contributing at a high
level offensively, he can still contribute in a lot of
ways that I was a little surprised no one went
for Terrang or Perkins Little brew Crew Devil Magic. Yet
at the same time I very much understand why, like
those those guys, I don't think a lot of Brewers
(55:42):
fans had either of them on their bingo card of
having like a good month, nevermind one war. This year,
Perkins is batting in the middle. He's batting fifth for
the Brewers.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
Just like I didn't. This one completely under my radar.
Speaker 1 (55:57):
It's a baseball is a six sport, man, Tony guys,
and you guys have become some of the YouTube icons
of this sixth sport. So I'm happy I got to
bring you guys together. Foolish Thank you. Is there anything
we needed to hype? I know, the out of the
park baseball we were talking about that before the program.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, let's hype that.
Speaker 3 (56:19):
On Foolish Bailey, I've started my out of the park
baseball play through. It's it's actually how I started my
origin story as a YouTuber, probably I don't know, six
years ago or something like that, is out of the
park baseball tutorials followed by a series.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Right now, I have taken over the Oakland A's.
Speaker 3 (56:37):
John Fisher came begging to me, please, please please, I've
changed my mind. Let's keep the A's in Oakland and
let's try to build a winner. And that's what we're
trying to do over on Foolish Bailey.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
Jolly, what do you have to hype?
Speaker 4 (56:49):
Go watch Bailey's new video on Adam Dunn. I liked
it a lot. He made himself wash Adam Dunn's defense
for a long time, which I would never do to myself,
So props. Then no, go to cham Baseball. There's a
new trivia video every weekday on Monday through Thursday. We
do drafts every Monday. Jake did really well and the
one that came out yesterday I looked stupid. So if
(57:11):
you're into that kind of thing, go watch that. If not,
I got a new video on my channel every.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Saturday and we'll we'll be in Baltimore.
Speaker 4 (57:18):
We will tomorrow first place. Oh's baby, Let's get it.
Speaker 1 (57:23):
Third, as you're hearing it, why not boys? Thank you.
I hope there's some baseball geeks that really get in
their quote unquote Jolly's off to this one. Make sure
everyone subscribed. We just hit eighteen k subs. How about that?
Just talking baseball into a mic pretty much. Shout out
to King Beibes and Waken. Jake is now a production
(57:45):
of Dan Patrick Productions. John Boy Me, I forgot about that.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
I should have brought that up at the start of
the episode. Does that mean I get to meet Dan Patrick?
We could set something up, yes, and workhouse media. We
just a little teaser. I guess it's going out today.
We just we talked to Dan Patrick for the first time.
Oh so i'd assume that's right before that. I assume
they're not banking that. I would assume that either comes
out came out yesterday as you at Homer listening to this,
(58:12):
or it comes out today as you at Homer listening
to this.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Don't know.
Speaker 4 (58:15):
Do you guys just have blind meetings before THO there's
us every meeting is I don't know.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
I don't like.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Just to be clear about when we're recording this. We
recorded this on August third, nineteen ninety Seven's.
Speaker 1 (58:27):
Right Bookmarket subscribe. Thank you everybody,
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