Life as a Karting Dad with Papa Legge

Katherine is joined by her dad, A.K.A. “Papa Legge” as he’s known around the paddock. They talk about getting her start with karting and her first races, how he responded to her first big crash, and his advice for other karting dads. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Hey you guys, and welcome

(00:22):
to this edition of Throttle Therapy with Me Katherine Legg. Tomorrow,
February the fifth is National Girls and Women's in Sports Day,
and I just want to say to all the girls
out there who want to get into racing, be yourself,
be confident, work really hard, and never ever ever give up.

(00:43):
We've seen so much progress in women in racing due
to so many different organizations making leaps and bounds and
strides in the right direction. In the last couple of
decades that I've been involved in professional racing, We've seen attendance,
we've seen demographics, We've seen drivers change so much. We've

(01:07):
gone from being a gimmick and a one off to
being a force to be reckoned with. And I just
want to see that progress keep rolling down the hill
like a big old snowball, gaining momentum. And to answer
our first ever listener question where they want to know
what happened to the car in twenty twenty three Indianapolis,

(01:27):
when I mistakingly put it in the pitwall. I will explain.
Thanks for asking that question in front of all of
these people. I made a mistake. Twenty twenty three was
not a great year for Indy for me. I didn't
really have that many pit stop practices under my belt

(01:48):
because we were so focused on doing other things getting
up to speed, and I misjudged it. I gave it
too much welly, as they say, too much gas, and
I got sideways and crossed up and I started to
spin corrected, hit the front left on the pitwall, and
we damaged the steering and we can get the steering

(02:10):
to behave as it would normally, and when you're doing
two hundred and thirty miles an hour, you really need
to have good feedback through the wheel. And so we
bent something in the steering that meant that I can continue.
We tried, The team did an awesome job and tried
to get me back out there to complete it, but
we couldn't and we had to retire. Unfortunately, this past week,

(02:35):
I've had somebody very special staying with me after the
Chili Bowl, and this person is going to be my
guest on this week's episode, and I'm very lucky to
have the best daddy in the whole entire universe, and
he has seen me through thick and thin of the
racing side. He's been my mental coach, he's been my engineer,

(02:55):
he's been my trainer, and he's also been my handyman
this week. So I am very lucky that I get
to share him with you for this episode and find
out what he thinks about my career thus far, because
it's also been to a certain extent, his career. So
my dad has been there obviously since the very beginning,

(03:18):
and he's never been what we would class as carting dad.
You know, you have like baseball dad. I think that's
a term. And there's a lot of carting dads out
there that used to force their kids to go to
the racetrack and then they used to tell them off
if they weren't fast enough, or tell them off if
they got beaten by a girl, whereas my dad was
very much the opposite. He was very aware that he

(03:43):
said to me, if I don't get up in the
morning and go wake him up so that we can
go racing, then it's not going to happen. He's not
going to be the one to come and wake me
up to go racing. I have to want it for
him to be along on the ride and not vice versa.
And so I feel like we've done it as a team.
And now here is Papa Legg also known as Derek,

(04:04):
also known as Catherine's dad. This week we have a
super duper special guest, the one that only the infamous
Papa Leg as he's known around the paddock.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
He's obviously my dad.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
His name is actual name's Derek, although I'm not sure
how many people actually know that. They mostly call him
Daddy Leg, which I'm not sure how he feels about,
but we're about to find out. And I'm pretty sure
my dad is one of the main reasons they let
me stay around racing for so long, because everybody knows him,
everybody loves him. He has been one of the most
supportive parents in all of sports, not just motor racing.

(04:45):
He flies in coach no less, backwards and forwards from
England to pretty much every single one of my races,
no matter where they are in the world. So without
feather adom, Hello Daddy, good afternoon, So thank you for
coming on. I know this is going to be a
very special episode for our listeners because it's kind of
like an inside scoop of how family operates within racing.

(05:08):
You know, a lot of people see racing from the
outside and they see not how the sausage is made,
but they just see the finished product. And so as
a parent of somebody who is absolutely insane and wants
to drive around a two hundred and fifty miles now,
you have a very unique perspective, especially having followed it
from a really young age. I'm going to ask you
to start at the beginning with little baby Catherine when

(05:33):
and explain to our listeners how we both found this
passion and excitement for racing.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
From a very very early age. You seem to want
to throw yourself downstairs things like you know, most sensible
people wouldn't do, Baby Walker.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I mean, I love the adrenaline even when I was
a baby.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
And even your little baby Walker that you pushed along,
you know, it wouldn't go fast enough, you get tripping over.
You just seem to be wired to do things that
you know, most normal little girls don't.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Do you actually think that I was wired differently though?
Do you you didn't see a feminine side of me
at that age.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
You didn't see you had your little dolls and that
side of it. But you love riding on the little
moa tractor thing. We had all the sorts of things
that you would normally associate with, and I'd say this advisedly,
little boys doing that's so second, you know, I know.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
You?

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, I think you were wired differently.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Then do you do? You want to know what? Though?

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Sorry to interrupt you that, daddy, but I have a
slightly different perspective on that. I think that I liked
doing those things because you and I were close. So
I think because we bonded because Vicky was with mommy
having her herney assorted. My sister Victoria had a herne
when she was a baby and had to spend a
lot of time in the hospital with my mum, so
my dad got the duty of looking after me, and

(07:15):
obviously we became very close and have been inseparable ever since.
But I think that I wanted to do whatever you
wanted to do. So if you wanted to go and
load the lawn, then I wanted to do that. If
you said that you liked eating pistachios, I liked eating pistachios, right,
I just wanted to be a mini me version of you.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I think that that's what molded that.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
It may be an element of that, but see pre
your memory as a baby last week, you were different.
But I get what you're saying. But then I think,
in all honesty, you you led me, and then I
led you, and you led me. When it came to
the carting, when we went on a holiday with the

(07:59):
in laws Spain in that time, they bought a little
villa out there. We went out on Christmas. It was
freezing cold. Everything was shut. It was boring ground. I
doesn't hear this, but it was. So we drove around
the countries. I just sort of looking for things to
do as a family, extended family, and came across a

(08:21):
cart circuit, corporate one with you know more you know,
not competition carts, but corporate carts, and just thought, oh,
we'll have a play on that, and just did that
and enjoyed it. You weren't allowed to go round on
your own because you weren't old enough, because they were
more adult carts, so I had to sort of sit

(08:43):
on the side. It was, you know, it wasn't you
know We weren't going fast or anything like that, but
I think you liked the control. But the weekend we
got back to the UK, there was a double page
spread in our national news paper that we had delivered
that spoke about kating in the UK, and we saw

(09:06):
that there was actually a cart circuit not too far
away from us. We didn't know that, so you and
I decided that day that we'd go and have a look.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
How old was there then, like eight.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Eight, nearly nine, something like that. So we drove over
there and found that was the circuit was holding a
round of the British Cadet Championships, which was for eight
to twelve year olds, and there was one girl doing it.
And so we stood there watching, watching at Louise Colin

(09:43):
and I remember your eyes sort of like, you know,
sort of like, oh, girls do do this. Anyway, we
got chatting, watched it and got talking to the club
people that were running that event, and they said they
practiced every week. Why don't you come back next weekend.
We'll put you with a family same sort of age

(10:05):
as Catherine was and find out what it's all about.
So we went back the following weekend and we thoroughly
enjoyed it. So I decided, in my mid thirties, then
it's crazy that I could possibly be the next there
and center. So I bought a cart and started to practice,

(10:29):
and we would go there every weekend, getting up at
the crack of dawn. And although at that stage, you know,
I want sure about letting Catherine do it or whatever,
Catherine would come and so eventually she persuaded me to
get her a cart. So we found an old second

(10:50):
hand cart and off we went. We would both go
because they did the practicing in sessions where the adults
would go out, then the juniors, then the cadets.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
So one day I realized that, you know, flying wasn't
part of what you're supposed to do. And yeah, I
wasn't hurt, but it sobered me up to think that
it's a bit irresponsible. So then I decided, okay, pack
it up and I just enjoy Catherine doing it. And
then the worst thing that could ever happen was that

(11:28):
she won a race there, and of course after that,
wow it all, you know, change started doing the British championships.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
So I won this race. I remember one thing about
winning that race, and that was. They hand you the
checkered flag after the race, and it was so heavy,
I thought I was going to drop it, and I
thought that would be the most embarrassing thing that could
ever happen to me in my entire life.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
And there was no way I was going to drop it.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
So I just slowed down and it took me like
half an hour to were lapholding this jack black.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
That's all I remember.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
It was fairly early on. You had to do six
black plate races like l plates basically, although I did
put an L plate on your cart to start with
when you were practicing to learn. But when you did
your first six official races, they put all the black
plate or learners at the back of the grid, and

(12:25):
so you had to do those and get them signed
off on your license by the clerk of the course
after each race, to show that you were competent or
getting there. So you did your six black plate races,
and I think it was your first or second race
at Blackbush that you.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Were That was again, that was impressive. I'm impressive with myself.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Okay, So we spent the next decade traveling around come, wind, snow, rain,
whatever it was. I mean, you literally drive in everything
back in England. I'll let you tell that one story
of when we were driving up north in the truck
and it was snowing, and yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
We started off and it was winter and you know,
I think it was a Friday, picked you up from school,
started to drive up there, got around the M twenty
five and it started to snow and it started to
snow heavier, and so we kept stopping at various hotels

(13:40):
en route, but they were all full. People had already
abandoned their journeys. So we were we had to pick
up truck four wheel drive fortunately and a trailer and
so in the end we were committed to trying to
get all the way there. And so we turned off
the A one m to this two lane highway across

(14:04):
country to the circuit, and the snow was so deep
and we came to one part of the road which
then you could see it quite a long way and
there was a dip and then a long uphill and
you could see these lorries had tried to get up there,
and a jackknife to cross the road and just abandon

(14:25):
them where they were.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
So typical daddy leg form. He's like, ah, I got this, No, Well.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
It was a case of we were going to have
to sleep in the truck. We had enough diesel to
keep it warm, and it would have been okay, or
we gave it a go and if we didn't get
up the other side, we'd still sleep in the truck.
They cleared the road and got us sat out of there,
so we were in four wheel drive by that time,

(14:57):
and I thought, well, if we jackknife with the trailer,
we're not getting out of that. But anyway, we gave
it a go and just hoped and prayed nothing came
the other way as we're sort of zig zagging out
of the traffic. But we made it.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
Well done, yes, But the mad thing was we got
up on the Saturday morning, looked at the hotel window
and it was like a white out.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
But we still went to the track hoping that it
could be cleared. And there were four or five other
mad parents there that were busily trying to drive around
the track and deep, you know, but it was abandoned
in the end.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
So yeah, I remember somebody putting a big sheet of
like plywood or something on the front of the truck
and like trying to use that as a shovel, and I.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Was thinking that was a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, we had some adventures, though, I think that there's
just so many of us from that era that.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Have withstood the storm, I.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Guess, I want to say, and we've we're still racing.
I still think it was probably one of the most
competitive areas. I know everybody who grows up racing things
that theirs is the most competitive, and it probably does
get better over time. But as far as I'm concerned,
you know, the the Jensen Buttons and Anthony Davidson and
the Lewis Hamilton's and the.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Jamie Green's and Gary.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Paffitt's of the world, they're still to me, there's still
top of the top because that's who I race. It
might come out, yeah, I mean there's so many I
feel a missed and mention them. But I think that
no matter what I'd decided to do in life, right,
I think that would have stood me in good stead
because it was the competition, it was the teamwork, it
was the camaraderie.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
It was still learning. I know.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
We used to drive around the countryside okay after the races,
and you would have to be chief mechanic engineer, driver, driver, coach,
all of the things and psychologists. It did make me
do my school work because I wasn't going karting unless
I've done my school work, and I desperately wanted to
go karting, so at least there's that.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
And I did end up in jail.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
But it must have been difficult to deal with because
you're a super competitive person too. I mean, you played
football soccer before you found karting, and I think the
competition is part of the thing that keeps us both going.
And I think you're the analytical part of your brain
that you still use now for some of my data
analytics and looking at lap times and split times, and

(17:24):
I think it ticked all the boxes racing right like
it was the adrenaline, it was the competition, it was
the data, it was all the things. And I must
have been infuriating at that age to deal with because
I know I used to pretend to be asleep when
you asked me about Sprocket size and where I wanted
to see posts and all those things. But you got

(17:45):
your enjoyment from it from me doing well, and you're
doing well obviously, But were you in some way like
driving vicariously through me? And was it really frustrating when
I didn't do what you would have done in the
same situation.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
No, I mean it would have been me if I'd
got it younger. But when I found karting when I
already had two children and you know, and commitments, mortgages
and all the rest of it, and it wasn't too
difficult for me to put it to one side, because
you've got to remember, at that time it was just fun.

(18:20):
I had no idea that it would become a career
for you. I just it was. I didn't think any
further than karting.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
When did you?

Speaker 3 (18:31):
When I think after when you moved up through the
ranks into juniors. You know, you finished third in the
British Championship against a really tough forty eight drivers in
that championship, and to finish third was quite an achievement.

(18:51):
Particularly and let's be honest, we didn't really know what
we were doing. You were up against some drivers that
were third or fourth gen duration motorsport people, whereas we
had just four years or whatever three years. But time
you were in juniors and we didn't. We were guessing
at setups or trying to get it right, and you know,

(19:12):
and so I think that was a big achievement, and
then eventually you moved into seniors and then into Formula
A and in Formula RA again. I mean that got
really expensive when you know, an engine you could run
for forty minutes before it needed a rebuild, so you'd
need four or five per weekend. That then in the

(19:35):
end you ended up leasing them from somebody like Steve
Ogdun or you know others, and so you had to
make sure you had the top equipment engine wires, chassis wise,
tires you'd go through like I don't know how many
sets a weekend. So it got really expensive, and so
we didn't so you weren't in it that long and

(20:00):
you were you know, it was we didn't get to
go to Europe and things like that because that got
even more expensive at the time. You know, I had
to be running building houses and trying to sort of
we had recessions and various issues financially that we had
to overcome. So but when you were in Formula A
and some of the other drivers had moved on into

(20:21):
Formula Ford that we knew, like Jensen Button and Anthony
Davidson and saw how well they got on at that stage,
I don't think you were as quick as those two
because you hadn't had the experience. You weren't given the
opportunity to get better or learn because I didn't know
what you didn't know. So that was the mad thing. Unfortunately,

(20:47):
at that stage there was no Racing Steps foundation that
didn't start till two thousand and eight, and I think
we're talking about just a year two thousand and really
it didn't come in, so there was no help at
that stage from the brd C, for example. So moving

(21:08):
into cars was like a bit of a dream. But
I think you won a scholarship or a test day
in a Formula Ford at Silveston, amongst a load of
other people as well, and you did that, and I
remember you hadn't even driven a car with a gearstick.

(21:28):
There was an American driver at all Edwards and just
taught you out to clutch and change. I mean, that's
how inexperienced you were. And then obviously it got to
sort of know a few people in Formula Ford sort
of arena. Jim Warren at Hayward Racing, And I remember

(21:51):
when Danica ended on the podium at the Formula Ford
Festival and I stood next to Jim Warren and he
turned around to me and gospel truth. He said, I
thought your daughter would be the first one to stand
on that podium. So and so that gave me like, oh,

(22:13):
so it's not just me, you know, because as a parent,
you're bout to be a biased or I think so. Anyway,
the following year, I think Jim Warren was you know,
retiring or you know, and he was selling off his equipment,
and so I did a deal to buy two hold

(22:37):
his Formula forwards off of him with the intention to
try and get Gary Watts to run both cars and
we'd hire one out, which was going to pay for
you two race. Now that's my first foray into motorsport
team ownership.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
You're only for team ownership, Yeah, I mean what possessed
us to think that we could run a Formula Ford
card together? Like, I know, we had Gary, but we
didn't know anything about anything. We didn't know anything about giarboxes, suspension, aerodynamics,
We knew like literally nothing. We were brand new. One

(23:20):
of my favorite stories is actually you giving up smoking
to be able to pay for my tires.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
No, No, that's when I've first bought the cart that
I smoked. What would be sixty cigarettes a day. Nowadays
in the UK that would be about twelve thousand pounds
a year or fifteen thousand dollars. So I thought, right, okay,
that's Catherine's carting budget in Cadets, right.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
That's pretty special. And it was good for your health.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
So yeah, yeah, it was. It was and so and
I couldn't go back on it then.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Good, Yeah, I didn't want to. Old times that would
have been let's jump a little bit of around. Because
I did a race here or there where I could,
and I drove the car of almost certain death as
we nicknamed it Rockingham, the F three car. But I
never never done a season, never really sunk my teeth

(24:18):
into it. Got with a good team, learn anything until
oh we did.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
We started the season with four Tech in.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
We couldn't have done that without a sponsor. So we
started doing the practice, preseason testing, and you know it
was going okay. You know it was a top team.
You had Jamie Green, Danny Watts and a Brazilian and
you in it. You had Lewis Hamilton was with Mana Motorsport,

(24:52):
which was another top team. It was a stacked grid
of over thirty four cars. I think right anyway, did
pre season testing Did the first race at Brand's Hatch
went okay? I think you finished somewhere in midpac had
some good sector times, but you know, obviously things were perfect.

(25:13):
But then I think the second race was at Alton
Park and you did some testing there in the week
prior everybody did you know, Richard Dunn got your confidence up.
The testing was going well and he was convinced you
that you can do it, and you were sort of
you know it was it was? And so I went
there and you know, you qualified on pole in front

(25:38):
of all of those top drivers. You're in a good
car for the first time in your life probably, you know,
and that was like wow. And at that time we
were because it was the Formula Reno two thousand series.
You beat kimmy Reich and the slap record around there.
I know the car was a different model next year.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Was it?

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I can't even claim that as my own because my
entire career I would would we get these details.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Unfortunately, start didn't go too well because the lights didn't
work properly, so we had to come around again and
then you got shunted at the second corner. But you
know that was a stacked grid, and you know then

(26:32):
we I think did two races after that, and then
you went and tested somewhere. I think you felt you
had an off I think at the Silveston practice, that's right,
and did damage the chassis underneath, you thought, curbed it
and it was never quite the same after that. But
and anyway, long story short, disappeared, literally disappeared because I

(26:58):
went round to see it because Richard, rightfully so, was saying,
well that we need where's my money? I funded it
a bit, you know, and I said, well, I'm you know,
I'm waiting for and literally gone, he'd literally disappeared. So unfortunately,
that was the end of your Formula Reno season four races,

(27:19):
one pole position. You know, it was all going reasonably well.
I'm sure you would have by the end of that season,
you know, learned a lot and then you know, in theory,
if you'd had the money moved up into Formula three,
did all your learning there, et cetera, et cetera. But
it didn't.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
It didn't happen.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
After the Formula Reno four tech period, you didn't do anything.
It was sort of you then did these you raced
in Formula three for that Malaysian team of certain death
as you call it. Almost yeah, yeah, you did a
nice backflip at Rock Rockingham, So we'll forget that because

(28:02):
that was just not you know you did. Okay, I
thought in that car continue done any Formula for three racing.
But then after that you then got to do Formula
Reno Winter Series with motor World, right with Allan Allan
who said there's an American Formula Renos series that was

(28:25):
going around as a support to the Atlantic Series and
the champ Card World Car World Series. And you went
off to Houston to race for that Rosh Franz team
who was supposed to do certain races, one of which
was the Canadian race at Vancouver, Vancouver. That's right. So

(28:48):
I managed to persuade Mammy to have a holiday that
involved going to mid Ohio to watch you race and
driving up to Canada and Vancouver.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I don't know how you managed to persuade it, and
I wonder she doesn't like racing.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
But the Vancouver one got canceled because they were going
the Renault series out there was didn't play its bills
and therefore the champ God series. But as we'd already
booked everything. We went out there anyway, and I went
to the Champ Car Race just because as a fan

(29:32):
if you like to see, but also because the Atlantics
were racing there. And that's when I met Vicky O'Connor,
who was the who ran the Atlantic Series at that time,
and I sort of begged and pleaded with her. I said,
is there any anybody that would give Catherine a test?

(29:56):
And she sort of well, and I didn't really expect
too much from it. I came back from America and
a few weeks later, that's when Vicky O'Connor had spoken
to Kevin kel Cove and then he you.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Know, so, for those of you who don't know, Kevin
cal Coven owned the Champcar series and Champ Car and
IndyCar were a separate entity. They separated sometime in the past,
not really sure when, and IndyCar retained the Indianapolis five
hundred and Champ Car did mostly the street and road racing.

(30:34):
And Kevin was probably the one responsible for me being
here at the moment because when he did tell Vicky O'Connor, Daddy,
how did that?

Speaker 2 (30:45):
How did the Vicky O'Connor and Kevin conversation go.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Kevin was coming over to the UK. She had mentioned
it to him, but he was sort of noncommittal on anything.
But she tipped us off that he was flying over
to the UK because he was going to buy Cosworth
off of Ford owned it at the time. So he's

(31:08):
flying over to Silverstone basically to do that deal. You
at the time were working at Silvestone as an instructor
to pay your rent, so to speak. And you know
the suggestion was made that you go and meet him
in the foyer of and so you can tell the
story from there.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I remember being absolutely petrified to go and meet a
billionaire that I didn't have a appointment to go and meet.
And I remember printing off my racing CV my racing
resume and driving my or beaten up Voxhall and Nova
in a wearing a business suit. And I don't think

(31:51):
I owned a business suit. I think I had to
borrow something that resembled a business suit off somebody.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
And I remember driving there.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
And I was relatively shy and unassuming when I was younger,
and didn't feel comfortable doing anything like that. Definitely didn't
feel comfortable selling myself. And I remember you telling me
when he was going to be there. So I literally
rock up at Cosware with printed out CV in hand,
and I go to the front desk and I say, Hi,

(32:21):
can I please see Kevin cal Coben And the receptionist
looked at me like I had two heads, and I
was like, no, that do you have an appointment? I'm
not sure that that's how this works. And I said no,
I just want to see him, like, I just want
to give him this in person.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
I don't want to leave it here.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
I want to give it to him in person and
just shake his hand and say, I'm Catherine. I've just
done this three race can Am Formula Renold Championship. I
fell in love with America. Fell in love with American racing.
I think that's where it's at. I think that's where
the opportunity is, especially for young women, because back then,
you know, there was Daniker over here, and there really

(33:01):
wasn't anybody in Europe. And I definitely think that America
was forward thinking and probably a decade ahead of everybody
else in the world in terms of seeing the benefits
of having diversity, if you like. So I waited in
reception for him because she said I couldn't see him,
and I said, well, I'll just wait here and then

(33:21):
when he comes out to lunch or it goes in
or is something, I'll just ambush him, basically. And they
didn't call security on me, which is very strange, but
they did call Kirsty and Kim. Now Kim was his
wife and Kirsty was his daughter, and I think they
wanted to come out and see what kind of person
just rocks up and says, I want to see Kavin

(33:42):
Calcoben please, because trust me, that took literal balls like
it was terrifying. I was sweating. It was awful.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
But I think that shows how badly you will need it.
So if you look back on that, you know it.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
Well.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
They say, do something that scares you every day, right right,
So I'll get on the roof and blow the leaves
eating because that scared So I saw Kirti and Kim.
They actually came in and talked to me, and I
gave them a short version of my story and they said,
to Kevin, at some point during that day and what

(34:23):
was there for a few hours. They said, I really
think you should at least see her for five minutes,
because you know, it does take balls. And I think
there's something special about her. So Kevin came out and
he was like, hello, young lady, and I said, Hi,
I'm catchin Like I'm a racecud driver. I would win
every race. I don't know what I said, but it
was like just basically blurted it all out, and he

(34:45):
took my CV, and I remember leaving thinking that he
hated me and it was all was last And I
remember calling you on the way home from that, because
in those days you were allowed to use your cell
phone and drive at the same time, like literally crying
because of all the emotion that it took to be
able to go and do something like that, but also

(35:07):
that it didn't work, because you know, especially when you're younger,
you have these like fantasies or dreams that everything's going
to work out, and you hang everything on it. So
I thought that this was the answer and he was
gonna turns out it was, But for a moment when
I left, I was heartbroken because I thought it wasn't

(35:28):
the answer, and I thought he just thought that I
was some crazy English lady. And I didn't know what
I was going to do because I wanted to race
so badly. I didn't want to instruct. I didn't want
to do that. That was just a means to an end.
So I tried underwriting loans in a bank. Didn't love
that either. I just wanted to be a racing driver.
And so I think it was a few days later

(35:50):
I got a phone call from Jim Griffith, who owned Pollstar, saying,
Kevin Calcoven called us and he wants us to test you.
Can you be in Phoenix Thursday? And I remember thinking,
I know, I don't know how to get to Phoenix,
but yes, I'll be there. I don't know how, but
I'll make it happen and all my goodness. And then
obviously you were the first person I called, and I

(36:12):
was like, Dad, I need money exactly, I need money
to get out there.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
And you didn't come to that test, did you.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
No? That was me all by myself as a young adult.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Its terrified.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, firstly, I remember when I first came out to
do the canam thing the year before. It was my
first experience of America, and I turned up in Houston
in August and I thought, this is how all Americans lived,
and it was terrifying. All the cars were big, all
the roads went off in different spaghetti junction ways and
it was one hundred and twenty degrees or whatever. It

(36:49):
was so and humored. So that was my first experience
of America. But then after doing those three races and
living in Houston over the summer and loving it and
just thinking, you know, this was the first time that
I'd really been treated as a racing drive and not
as a girl. And so when I got off the

(37:09):
plane in Phoenix and Jim and Pam picked me up,
I felt at home immediately, Like I have so much
love and admiration for both of them. I can't tell
you how much what they did for me meant Kevin
and Kim and Kirsty two. But like they took me
under their wing. They had me live with them in
their house. Like Jim literally taught me everything I know

(37:30):
about a race car. I lived, breathed, did everything with them.
I mean, I should probably backtrack and say I did
the test in Phoenix, I got to drive the Lorry,
I got to drive the truck, I got to experience
all these cool things. I really felt like part of
a family. I got to drive this big Atlantic car
for the first time, having only done what like a

(37:52):
handful of car races, less than fifteen car races in
my short career up until that point. And I went
home and I thought I'd done a really good job.
I didn't know what would come of it, but just
the whole experience was just made my heart happy. And
I got a phone call when I got home from

(38:15):
Jim saying, Okay, Kevin.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Says, you've got six races. Let's see what you've got.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
And obviously the first race then was Long Beach, which
you did come to and have been to ever since,
and that kind of really set the stage for my
career moving forward. But for you, experiencing Long Beach in
a big car for the first time must have been
something really special to you.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yes, it was like a dream weekend. I mean it
went so well.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
It didn't start off that well when I crashed in qualifying.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, no, no, but practice you were fast. I mean
they're aping. Long Beach is notorious for you know, and
at that stage I still you were still earning and
sometimes you know, slur is faster and you're trying to

(39:07):
hammer around that in qualifying. But yeah, but you know,
that probably set you up for the actual race and
where you came through and won it, and it put
you on the map that that was the one thing.
I mean, so you know what you've got to remember. Also,
at that time or the following month, Dannik had finished

(39:30):
third at the Indy five hundred, So the rival series
had their female post child sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Right. That was that year I forgot because I went
to that race.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
I was sating on turn one with Jim and Pam
for that Indy five hundred.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
But then your fifth and sixth races were I don't know,
something like June, and at that time there was big
rivalry between the two series, each one trying to put
the other one out of business basically. And if you remember,
you had six six race deal with Kevin, and the

(40:11):
idea was that you were supposed to find the sponsorship
for the last six. But at Cleveland, I mean you
you know, you were honored what Kevin did and you
stayed with him because in the end he did pay
for the rest of the season and actually signed you
to a ten year contract. But just before that at Cleveland,

(40:35):
a guy flew in, didn't he if you remember, from
the IRL, and tried to persuade you to sign with them.
None was going to start. Catherine Nunn under mo Nun's guidance,
was going to start a team as well to put

(40:58):
you into so that they could poke you off of there,
and offered you quite staggering summer money that you turned
down at the time. Well it was a million dollars And.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Why did I turn that down?

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Damn lowly because you felt, you know, Kevin was talking
to you about extending the deal, and so you thought, well,
he gave me the opportunity, it's the honorable thing to do.
And you then obviously did do the last six races
with Polestar Gym and Pam. You won two of those.

(41:33):
You finished third in the championships your first year, first
full season in the same car. That was good. And
then obviously Kevin then moves on from there, doesn't it
where I mean, at the end of that year, you
got to test the Champ car at Seabring, you got
to test Formula one car, the Minardi at the Bella Lunga,

(41:58):
and you drove the A one g E car Aby
Dabbie I think it was Dubai, I can't remember. So
all of a sudden you're even testing much more powerful
I mean, the Chat car at the time was that
it was the Lola with a thousand horse power.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Oh I remember.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I remember testing at the Seabring, not being able to
do more than six laps, and when they put new
tires on, I thought, there's no way I'm going to
be able to drive this thing. So I was in
the ladies room because obviously there weren't any other women around.
Jim Griffith was there supporting me as well, and I
remember going in the ladies and drinking gay trade and eating.

(42:40):
Do you remember there was the power bars back in
the day, thinking this is the only thing that's going
to get me through, and Jim was like, you've got this.
You don't need that, You've got this, you can do it,
like I really don't know that I do. Like Ryandel
was testing, there was a bunch of really good drivers
there and Kevin said that I have to be as
fast as them. I don't necessarily have to be faster

(43:01):
than them, but I have to be as fast as them.
And I think it was faster than some of them,
and some of them were faster than me, but I
was very comparable. I could barely hold onto the thing.
Jim Leo from Pittfit was the one who got me
strong enough over that off season to be able to
drive those beasts because at the time, I mean it

(43:21):
was a big it was a big jump, it was
a big car.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
Yeah, I think you could have done with another season
in Atlantics just to you know, more of a So
you jumped into Champ Car having done less than thirty
races in any form of car, I mean, which is crazy.
There's nobody, nobody that has done that.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
I still wish I could just focus on racing, but
have to think about all the other things. And I
dream of being in a position like Scott Dixon is,
you know, like, yes, okay, I dream of having his
level of talent as well.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
But imagine being with the.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Same team, Like you go to the gym, you do
your commitments, and you work with your engineers, and that's
what you have to do, rather than having to be
scrappy and fight for like every.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Drive and take.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Every drive that's presented to you because it might be
your only opportunity. And it's definitely been scrappy, I would say.
But after Champ Car, well, in two thousand and eight,
Champ Car and IndyCar merged back together and I got
offered a ride in DTM for Audi, and so I

(44:45):
spent three years doing that. I felt very much like
the token female doing that. If I'm honest, didn't have
the happiest years of my life there.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I think you were the token Audi female, right, Yeah,
and Susie was the token of Mercedes female.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, Susy did a better job.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Let's be honest, Susy did a better job of putting
herself in a better position to be competitive. I remember
looking at the data and seeing that I was losing
speed over a gearshift, for example, and looking at my
engineers and they would literally laugh at me and they'd
be like, you got to pull the lever hard.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
I'm like, okay, I'm a girl. I'm not stupid.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Like I am pulling the lever as hard as I
can pull it, and I know it was the gear cut,
and so it was like it was demoralizing. I don't
know that I had my passion for racing when I
was doing that, To be totally honest, I think I
wanted to get back to the States and I wanted
to get back to IndyCar. And these were some turbulent

(45:45):
years because I came back to the US after that
contract was over, and I was probably a bit tougher
than when i'd left, but it was nice to be back.
And I wanted to do IndyCar and I'd found the
sponsor to do it with, and that was True Car
at the time, and I thought that we were going
to do it with Mike Shank if you remember, in

(46:06):
the first place, and I wish that that had been
the case, but we didn't. We ended up with Ja
Penske's team, and then there was a lot of commotion
with the Lotus engine that we started off with and
then the shift to Chevrolet. Luckily Chevrolet rescued us for
the five hundred at least, and then we did this
ride share with Bordert, my teammate at the time, And

(46:29):
so I had got pushed around that year from pillar
to post, and I felt very used and abused, and
it was again a kick down kind of season that
was really bitty, And again I got kind of plucked
from those ashes by Don Pannots through Bridgetown through Alspire.

(46:49):
So I made some really good friends. And there's some
really really great people in racing, and Al was one
of them.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
Don too, two great guys too, propers, you know, definitely yeah,
and then it was sports cars.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
That was my Yeah, that was my first foray into
the sports car world, which I'm grateful for because I
love right, I love sports car racing. I feel like
it's it's what I was probably.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Born to do.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
I love open more racing too, But the first jump
into sports car racing in the Delta Wing was like marmite, right.
You either loved it or you hated it. And it
was garbage to start with, let's be honest, like it
would break down over five minutes. It was a disaster.
But over the three years that I drove that car,
it taught me so much. It taught me about sports
car racing, it taught me about multi class racing. It

(47:40):
taught me about the tires because we worked with Bridgestone,
and that's how I become friends with car who's the
chief engineer for Bridgestone now and one of my besties.
She actually designed the tires for the Delta Wing back
in the day, and that's how kind of we started
working together. And then throughout the three years I got
to work with with Dave and with Tim, two of

(48:02):
the best team managers in the business, especially at that time,
and so I learned so much about the car and
the setup and the dynamics of it and how to
develop it, and we actually developed it into a pretty
good race car.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
I know that a lot of people don't like it,
but it drove like a racing car.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
It drove like an open wheel car a little bit,
and so I got the best of both worlds with that,
and that's what got me the opportunity to then become
a Honda Accurate factory driver in the NSX, and I
learned from Andy Lally how to drive the GT car.
The last decade, I would say I've driven a lot
of really cool stuff. I probably have one of the

(48:40):
most diverse careers in racing. I drove the electric car
for Bobby, the Jaguar, I drove, formerly E I drove.
I tested Jensen's electric rally car thing that was really cool.
So I feel like NASCAR, right of course, How could
I forget now, Carden. I'm very passionate about NASCAR and

(49:02):
I want to do more desperately. So I feel like
the last decade has been kind of a mishmash, but again,
I've learned so much over it. I was honestly blessed
to work with Mike and MSR. I think that's probably
the best team that I've worked with thus far, apart
from Polstar and going back to those kind of days.

(49:24):
It was nice to be winning races again, to be honest.
But what would you say of all the things, and
then obviously back to IndyCar and doing more NASCAR, And
if you could dream up the coolest schedule, what would
that be? What do you like from? And I know
that it's also dependent on where you like to go
because we both like going to like Laguna Sega as

(49:47):
opposed to midd Ohio, for example. But if you could
put all the best bits of my career up to
this point, because I'm not dead yet, what would you
say was the best would be best mixed match.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
All I've ever wanted was for you to be with
a decent team where no more excuses. You've got the car.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I don't know what you mean by that excuse.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
No, I know so that other people as well can
see that you know what ability you have and you
know I've enjoyed it all and I've hated it all.
If you like as well, you know, because there's been incidents.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Along the way, do you get scared more?

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Or less every time. I mean, the nerves.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
They're scared that I'm not going to do well and
I'm going to be grumpy or scared that I'm going
to hurt myself both.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
I'm standing outside watching you do some of these things
with the speeds, the forces that you know, the fine
lines between you know that's close or you know. I mean, yeah,
as a parent, you're going to feel like that. It's
not like watching somebody else who you quite like, but

(51:01):
you know you're not related to. You know, there's drivers
that we like, the drivers that we don't like, but
we won't mention them, and you see them have an
instant it's sort of you know they're okay, but you
don't feel like you do if it's your own. I mean,
so I don't want to dwell on those. But yeah,

(51:22):
of course that fear is there in the back of
your mind. You have to put it to the back
of your mind. But the I won't say it's fear
of not doing well. I mean, obviously I know when
you're going to be disappointed. I know you know, and
that's why you know I would be looking at the
data and find things that you know to show you
that show yeah, that was good. Obviously there's something not

(51:45):
happening over here. But if you could get that sorted,
you know, as all the team managers that you've ever had, well, no,
I don't interfere, so I leave it to the professionals,
and because I know it's not easy because the rest
everybody will be winning all the time, and that is
obviously a physical impossibility.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
I've been working with this girl, coaching this girl who's
kind of brand new to racing, and her dad is
there at the moment because she's just about to turn eighteen,
and I've seen the struggle that those two have where
he wants to be kating dad right, and he wants
to tell her what to do and help her because

(52:28):
he thinks that he knows best for her, and she
doesn't want to listen to him necessarily because she's listening
to everybody else and he's her dad. And you've seen
the level of interaction and a lot of dads have
and the ones that stay out the way that are
just supportive, like you, like, what advice would you give
krting dad coming into racing to be able to temper

(52:50):
that want to help with the emotions and everything else
of having a teenager that needs to learn from the professionals.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
I learned that with you and Victoria. Teenage girls don't
listen to their fathers because they think they know better.
And if I look at the teenage boys that have
gone on to do well, their parents who had some
previous experience in motorsport have handed them over literally to

(53:21):
a team to run, even in krting for a team,
because you know, there's always that where you would want
to know, you would almost want or pretend you knew
what you were talking about when you didn't, and it
gets difficult because you've not had the experiences. And for
a karting dad who hasn't done it before himself but

(53:43):
thinks he knows it, then I would say, look but
out of it completely. If I was him, I don't
know because finances come into it. If he can afford it.
What level is she at now that she's in cars?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Now is she it's just the first rung of the laddering? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Did you do karting?

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Successfully cartered and as not funding, he's not funding the
racing either.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
So he's got somebody funding that. Then well then I'd
hand it over he needs to butt out.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, it's really hard for him to control that urge
to want to.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
That's what he's got to do. I mean, because if
I'd come out to that first test with Jim and
Pam in Atlantics, I would have had nothing to offer
apart from support. Right if I'd started saying, oh, you know,
I don't know whether gym's right, maybe you should try that.
I mean, all that would do is confuse you, you know,

(54:42):
if the professionals say do this or don't do that.
So he's got nothing to offer apart from be there
for support because if things go badly, you just got
to say that, don't worry about it. It's all a
learning experience and et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Right, the friendly face that you seek when you get
out of the car and I know that we've had
this conversation as well as like, you wander off so
I don't know where you are or what you're doing.
But sometimes you.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Just want to be able to be a tent somewhere near.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Right, but you just want to be able to like
hand your helmet off to somebody have a vent. Yeah,
and then it's just getting off your chest really and
having that support system and somebody that loves you and
supports you near you gives you. I don't know, it's definitely,
it's definitely good. But we've obviously been doing it a
long time and we can rub up against each other
like relatively well at this stage. Like I know, I

(55:36):
know that giving you a mobile phone has no relevance
tool because you never freaking answer it, for example, so
I have to go and search you out at the
nearest Bert tent or.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
The Hondas be.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
The first time I did the five hundred and you
saw me going at those speeds because you'd seen me
race at Milwaukee on it over before and other places.
But there's nothing quite like the emotion and speed and
sensation and vibe for want of a better term, that

(56:08):
Indy gives you. The first time you saw me take
to the track at the Indian Apples to Speedway, what
was going through your head?

Speaker 3 (56:15):
I was trying to not show what I felt because
the build up to it, and you've got to remember,
you didn't do the weeks Prat's in you end did
sort of literally getting that Chevy engine. Basically the last
day I think that the deal was done. You and
Best Look Engines, and it was like throat really thrown

(56:41):
in the deep end. The stress was high about getting
in because I knew that if you didn't qualify, you'd
be really down and blame it on yourself or whatever.
So there was that element of the real pressure to qualify.
There's three hundred and odd thousand people there, there's the

(57:03):
pageantry that ramps it all up, and qualifying obviously the
only car on track at that time. The bit limited
practice you did wasn't you know where you weren't getting
to practice your toe and all the rest of it.
So you were then going into the race like as
a real beginner, and the speeds in access to two

(57:25):
hundred and twenty or whatever it was though then was
you know, scary when you got thirty two other cars
around you, and it's like, you know, yeah, it was
okay that the start was the most stressful. Then it's
sort of you know, just I'm just I literally was
walking up and down the pit lane, counting you passed

(57:50):
and then counting to forty for the next time you
come round.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
You do pace, Like, tell tell our listeners how many
steps do you get per day on a race?

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Again?

Speaker 3 (58:02):
I think my record is just under forty thousand good day.
But that's where that was Road America, and there was
a lot of nice places to watch that. But going
back to the five hundred, it was all I wanted
you to do was to finish. Unfortunately that first one

(58:25):
you had some mechanical there. And then again you're going
back to twenty twenty three, you became the fastest. That
was twenty, but you.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Forgot the Sam Schmidt year where I felt.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
When and again you qualified on the literally the last
day and had to bump somebody out. Then, I mean, yeah,
I mean the only year you've had a full you know,
the six days or whatever it is before was this year.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
I think last year too, I think can I don't know,
because it rained.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
On some of it. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
But yeah, but by now you're used to the no

(59:26):
what motivates you? And why do you still get up
at crazy o'clock in the morning, spend all that money
to get on a plane to come over here or
go wherever I'm racing and put yourself through the highs
and lows.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
And emotions of every race that I'm doing.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
How probably because I've got defective brains somewhere. No, I
think it's become what we do. I mean, it's like
i'd say, why do you do it? You know, I
mean I could throw that question back.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It's my identity at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Okay. I know you're earning a living doing it, but
it's from year to year and you know, it's sort
of very sort of you keep pushing on and I
think you're to be honest, It's one of the other
things I think with female drivers and if I want
to separate them, I watch Cadet carting and all the

(01:00:26):
little kids around the cart circuits for four years, and
each year there's a new crop of eight year old
to come into it, right, and others are moving out
and they're little cami Carsi's I mean, they're beyond their bikes.
They'll be flying off of like banks and crashing down,
you know, whereas girls of the same age are much

(01:00:47):
more sensible, you know, they're sort of they calculating the risk.
So I think the male of the specie doesn't appreciate
the risks they're taking, and in some ways they learn earlier,
you know, because as we've said, I think you've got
to if you want to be successful in racing. Now,
you've got to start karting at least at the latest

(01:01:10):
from eight, but a lot of them are doing it
from six now because I think it it wires your brain.
And I think your brain got wired into you know,
because you've taken me out in a few sports cars
and scared the out of me. Because my brain, we're

(01:01:30):
coming down to what I've been left hand or at
Road America, for example, before you go up and under
the bridge and onto the and going down there for
the first time, my brain's saying, there's no way on
this planet's stopping. We are in that gravel trap. I

(01:01:51):
don't care what anybody says. And you get there and
boom boom boom boom bom over the curves, and I'm thinking,
how do you learn that? I mean, I'll be breaking
two hundred yards perth.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Definitely got my driving skill from mummy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
It's a bit like traveling on the highway with you.
It's scary.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I dispute that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
I definitely think that I got my driving from mummy
because when you're in the car with her, she also
leaves the break until the last minute and slide sideways
around roundabouts and is terrifying as well, like cuts into
an exit at the last second. You're definitely more conservative.

(01:02:35):
I don't know whether you were when you were kating
all those years ago, but like apples to apples, now it's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Called self preservation. No, I think the older you get,
you do get like that. But I can honestly say, Mummy,
today we came down the M twenty five, all the
traffic where it's doing the road works, and that was
another late Mummy admitted. She said I can get away
with it because she does a little wave in the

(01:03:03):
mirror and says, oh, I'm a silly girl.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
And she plays that car.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Yeah, yeah, she and she knows it. See. I said
if I did that, I'd get the finger and everything else.
So I'm conservative because I can't get away with it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Okay, but hear me out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
So, my sister has never had any urges to drive
a car fast in her life, and it's completely normal,
relatively normal. But who would you rather do a road
trip with her.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Or me providing harvest driving?

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
With us driving?

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Yeah? Yeah, he didn't say that because.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
I know it's more scary to drive with me. But
you also know that I probably know what I'm doing
a bit more than she does. So it's like six
and one half a dozen of the other.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
I know, you know what you're doing. Right. So I'm
in the car, but my subconscious as soon as you know,
I'm reading the road ahead, and my brain's programmed to,
you know, break at certain times, or lift off the
throttle or signal to overtake. So my brain says break, break, break,

(01:04:11):
you know, and so it starts to panic, and I'm thinking,
if they've seen that, they should be breaking. But that's
because I'm programmed that way. I know that you can
do that. But to be honest with the BMW Mummy
used to have, she'd get through pads and discs like
nobody else, you know. I mean it was because she
didn't need to be breaking as hard and as late.

(01:04:35):
So there's the economy side of it too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Like that all right, last question, And I don't want
to end on this note, but I feel like it's
an important aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
In when was it two thousand and six, I had
a big accident in Road America when my rear wing
laminated and I hit the wall one hundred and eighty
miles an hour, and there was nothing left of the car.
It was just the tub and I was upside down,
and I remember hanging there upside down, pushing the radio button,
trying to trying to speak. Obviously the radio was probably

(01:05:07):
like two hundred feet away. I remember being terrified in
the moment that it happened, because I could see, like
I felt my head hitting the ground, and I could
see fence and trees and all sorts of stuff. But
then when I came to a stop, the guy, honestly,
the safety crew was so amazing. They were on the

(01:05:27):
track when I was still rolling and having that accident,
and I remember saying to them, hanging upside down, I
was very uncomfortable hanging in their belts. I remember saying,
tell my dad, I'm okay, because I knew that you
would have seen that and been terrified whether I was
okay or not. I was also gutted because I was

(01:05:48):
running Piece six at the time and that was one
of the best results that I had to date, And
those were kind of like my two thoughts at the time.
And then I remember seeing you in the med center afterwards,
and I don't think i'd ever seen you cry before,
and that was the first time. And then I think
we had you know that come to Jesus moment where
I was like, listen, it's not your fault in any way,
shape or form that you got me involved in racing.

(01:06:10):
I'm doing what I love and you're not going to
take responsibility for that. But like the first time that
something like that happens, you were obviously understandably terrified and
then relieved and all the things. And then the same
kind of thing happened in twenty twenty when I broke
my legs in Paul Rickard in the LMP two car.

(01:06:31):
Explain the roller coaster of emotion to the listeners that
is doing well, doing badly, getting hurt and and everything
like the gambit.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
Well, yeah, I mean that is always there at whatever
race is. Just if I'm talking to myself in my head,
I'm thinking, just keep us safe, give her a good result,
you know, just in that order, safety first. I mean
the Road America one was it was a massive shock.

(01:07:08):
At the time. I had radio on Team.

Speaker 5 (01:07:12):
Radio you and you could hear you and the engineer
talking to you in the race, and I'm wandering up
and down, and I spent more of my time I
walked up and down and would look at the lap
times and where you were on the indie car timing
stand right, which also had TV screens and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Sort of just glancing at the screen and seeing this
car flying through the air against the catch fence, which
was like a cheese grater. It took absolutely everything off
the car, and then it was the tubs rolling down,
but on the screen you couldn't tell what car it
was at that time. And then I heard your engineer say,

(01:07:54):
Catherine Gathlyne, You okay, Catherine Gathlyne, And that's when I
knew it was you. And it was such a violent crash.
I mean I instantly thought you were either seriously hurt,
if not dead. And Kevin Diamond came down, running down

(01:08:16):
to grab me because he obviously he was a good
guy and he knew what he was doing, trying to
calm me down, and sort of they knew nothing at
the time because, as you say, your radio would gone,
and you know, I'm not a really particularly religious person,
but I do, honestly, honestly, I sort of in my

(01:08:36):
head prayed to any God that would listen that you'd
be alive, you know, And and yeah, I was in
total shock. I was. I just don't think I was
there anymore, you know, And that's what again took me

(01:08:57):
to look and take it to the medical center. That's
where we'll get.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
How long before you got news, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
It seemed like forever. But they obviously because the TV
coverage stopped at once the tub, you know, they realized
that there might be you know, they don't like showing
anything that could be you know, nasty, so nobody knew.
The champ card crew could obviously radio, you know, but

(01:09:26):
that didn't get back to the team or us. And
Kevin and Kim were down there at the medical center
and and I'm sort of outside and then well in
the waiting room bit, but they bring drivers in through
the back and that you came in and I heard

(01:09:47):
you say can I have a cup of tea? And
that's when the emotion released, and there was no stop
in it. It was like yeah, and even now it
makes me emotion.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
But then I was okay, and you were you're obviously
very relieved, but you didn't try and stop me racing
or anything after that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Well, I mean I wanted to. I think initially that's
you know, not you know, And that night it was
the Atlantic's banquet and you were due to go to that,
and you did. I postponed my flight back, so I
was going to drive straight back and fly back that evening,

(01:10:28):
but we went. You were actually staying at the hotel
where the banquet was, I think, so I came and
I didn't go to the banquet. I just stayed with
you until you went to the banquet. And I remember, actually,
because of the way I messed my change my flights,
I ended up sleeping in the car halfway to the airport.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
You never told me that. I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Well, but it's too late to you know, find a
hotel in the rest of it. And I was just
so relieved anyway, and I remember getting to the airport
and it hit me again and it was sort of
an sort of emotional moment there. It was just the relief.
So and then I think we spoke the following day
and they did the right thing. They said, right, okay,

(01:11:15):
we're going to go and test somewhere, didn't they the.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Four days later and sing yeah yeah, and to get
that horse yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
But I think and you rightfully said that if it
had been something you've done wrong, then it might have
put you off, but the fact that the one of
the elements on the rear wing delaminated because at that
time the regulations were a bit more open on the
air row side of it, so they were sculpting out

(01:11:45):
the end plates that held those and I think it
something failed on that and the wing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Went bolt pulled through the fiberglass.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
Right and the wing went feet.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
In the air.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Yeah, because I remember taking off like literally I lost
the downface, but I also gained a bunch of spears
as I hit.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
So what then I got turbo? This is crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
And then obviously the same thing happened again in twenty
twenty in Poor Recard.

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
Yeah, well the worst thing they at the Poor Recard.
Weird thing because I'd heard on the radio, Yeah, you
pit this lap for new tires, which you were going
to do. So I was just casually walking away from
the screen, so I didn't see anything. And then again
on the radio it was you know, Catherine, you know,

(01:12:40):
I realized that the red flag was for you, and
nobody knew anything. Again, radio didn't seem to be working
at all. And obviously you were trapped in the car,
l pinned in it by your legs hitting the only
unprotected bit of the barriers. Time and a way you

(01:13:01):
didn't you the stuff to do. But then the worst
thing there and I you know, was they brought out
the white sheet to sort of stop photographers. And I thought,
that's what got me that because the only times I've
seen that before is when really, yeah, and they don't

(01:13:23):
want horrible photographs. Unbeknowns to me, it was because they
were having to cut your suit off you and they
wanted to protect your modesty.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Whater why I woke up button inked on this like
metal table coming around.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
They wanted to see where you leg was trapped and
so and that. So that was why. But at that
time my brain was she's seriously hurt. And that was
But then I had one of the you you had,
of course, the easiest journey to the I had a
team member drive down all those French backstreets.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Oh, I thought you drove yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
No, no, no, I didn't know where I was going.
I mean, I didn't know where this but that was
a terrific hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
The military hospital.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
I think the most terrifying thing of the whole experience
was driving from there to do the rehab in the Pyrenees.
When you rented that band and we were doing the switchbacks,
and every time we'd get around a corner like my
leg clunk and it wasn't it wasn't in a.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Cast or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
It was such a long way, and I was on
so many different painkiller drugs and everything else.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
That's crazy. But that's done now.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
I'm done crashing, Okay, no more, No more crashes. So
this year we're in the midst of putting together a
really cool schedule and looking forward to doing some some
of the big racists that we can't say anything about yet.
But are you just as excited about this year as

(01:15:00):
you've ever been? I think I'm fitter and stronger than
I've ever been. You are getting on that train with
me now, So I am beyond happy that I've got
you going to the gym picking up everything's and putting
them down again because I feel like that was inspired
by me in part, and that you're going to live
forever now. And yeah, do you think that Do you
still have the same motivation for it that I do? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
No, I mean your career has always been monkey, but
I mean you we didn't mention so far that you
did Pike's Peak. Oh, right. Yeah, that's the scariest because
you know, when we drove up in the the Accurate
they gave you to dry round in. I mean seeing

(01:15:45):
that three thousand foot drop almost like off the face
of a cliff. That worried me that you were going
to you know, because you're you know, well, I'm glad
it did, because if it hadn't, I might have said no,
you're not doing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
It, or tried to do you think that I would
if you said don't do it?

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Do you think I would?

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
I have no idea whether I would respect that now
at this stage, if you'd said, nope, you're not doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Well, the traveler is if I thought that way and
said it early enough so that you weren't letting people
down like Accurate and the series and all the rest
of it, I think to do it at the last
minute and pull.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Out, yeah, that wouldn't have been fair.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
But I mean the things you've done where you've raced,
you know, is you've had an amazing career and long
mate continue as long as you want it to continue.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
We I mean you've been there.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but if you decided to stop, I'm
not going to persuade you not to, but all I
would say is only do it in decent equipment.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
So thank you, Daddy food. Trying to compress twenty years
worth of racing ashes more if you think about it,
since go Kart Days, which is like nine, that's thirty third.
You're aging me thirty five years worth of racing into
a small podcast. But I love you very much. I

(01:17:13):
appreciate everything that you've done and all the advice that
you've given. And I am the reason that I'm like this.
I think because of you, and I look forward to
many more adventures together before I hang up my helmet
and we can go and drink beer on a beach.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
All right, good, all right, Well, I love you too,
and you take it easy and we'll speak soon.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
See you later.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Thanks for listening to Throttle Therapy. We'll be back next
week with more updates and more overtakes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
We want to hear from you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Leave us a review in Apple Podcasts and tell us
what you want to talk about. It might just be
the topic for our next show. Throttle Therapy is hosted
by Katherine Legg. Our executive produce is Jesse Katz, and
our supervising producer is Grace Fuse.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Listen to Throttle Therapy on

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
America's number one podcast network, I Heart, open your free
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