January 2, 2024 • 41 mins
Get ready for Season 2 of Un-Addiction, as Demi Burnett (The Bachelor, Bachelor in Paradise) tells Dr. Nzinga Harrison how she used alcohol to suppress characteristics of what would later be diagnosed as autism spectrum disorder (ASD). Demi discusses how she used alcohol through taping The Bachelor, and how ASD eventually became her greatest asset in her recovery journey. Listen as Demi gives a masterclass on how to build your recovery formula and shares tips on being authentic for anyone who's neurodivergent.
Find Demi on IG: @demi_not_lovato / TikTok: @demlia
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If you or a loved one are experiencing addiction, have questions about recovery, or need treatment tailored to you, visit eleanorhealth.com
Mark your calendars - Dr. Nzinga's forthcoming book, "Un-Addiction: Six Mind-Changing Conversations That Could Save a Life" comes out JANUARY 9, 2024! Pre-order it here: https://www.nzingaharrisonmd.com/
Find Nzinga on Threads and X (Twitter): @nzingamd / LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nzingaharrisonmd/
Follow us on IG: @unaddictionpod
If you'd like to watch our interviews, you can catch us on YouTube @unaddictionpod.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.
I'm a Board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.
Demi Burnette is an American television personality turned social media
influencer from The Bachelor and Bachelor in Paradise Shout Out
(00:46):
to Bachelor Nation. She's an advocate for body positivity, LGBTQ
plus rights, and mental health awareness. In twenty twenty two,
Demi was diagnosed with autism and hopes that in continuing
to share her experience, others can feel less alone.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We had so much fun on this episode.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
There is so much more to Demi and her life
that she shared with us, including her experience with alcohol
use disorder and how symptoms of autism were a major
factor in developing that addiction and how autism has become
her superpower as it relates to staying sober. All right,
(01:28):
thank you Demi for joining us on un Addiction. So
I am a psychiatrist and addiction medicine doctor, been serving
people with addiction for my whole career, and I just
recently wrote this book called Unaddictioned. Six mind changing Conversations
that Could Save a life. And the idea of the
book is like, there are an infinite number of risk
(01:51):
factors that can bring us to addiction, but they kind
of fall into these six categories and teach how to
have those six conversations. And since there are number of
ways in, then there are totally an infinite number of
ways out because you can combine all of these and
everybody's personal journey is their own personal journey. And so
the word un addiction is like, what do we need
(02:13):
to unlearn about addiction that we think we know that's
actually not helpful?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And what.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Do we need to undo from like a stigma perspective,
the stigmas we have that are like making it worse
for people? And then what are the conversations that we
want to uncover? All with this idea that we could
have fewer people suffering from addiction and finding a path
to recovery.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, you're awesome finding su Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So with that setup, we have the podcast and folks
like you, thank you so much, coming on to have
these conversations, right, like what was my path to recovery
and this idea of your magic formula? Knowing that that
will change over time, but like, what are the pieces
that keep you grounded in recovery? So maybe somebody listening
(03:11):
will be like, oh, that sounds similar to my path.
Oh I can relate to that part of the journey.
Oh maybe I'll try that part of that formula and
maybe it's part of my magic.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So that's the idea.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah, Okay, I love it. I love it. This is
this is doing like really good helpful things, you know,
helpful stuff out there. That's uh. I love doing things
that it's not like, you know, just kind of I mean,
it's always fun to talk about pop culture and whatnot,
but it's it's nice to like just it feels good
and rewarding, not rewarding, maybe fulfilling. That's the sort to
(03:46):
talk about stuff that can save lives.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, so then let's jump in.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Do you mind sharing with us whatever and whatever detail
however you want to share with us what your path
to recovery has been.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think that that's the best, the best way to
you know, help any help people, to be super open
about it, because I know that it's very shameful, and
so I think too. I think the way my brain
works is that to fight the shame, I own it.
I'm not I can't feel the shame if I buy
(04:23):
own it. You know, that's like after recovery or you know,
during recovery. So I I fell in love with alcohol.
I was like eighteen. I went to college and I
had like freedom for the first time. I had a
(04:45):
strict upbringing, very strict, so I didn't like it's a
party that much in high school. And when I did
in high school, I mean I was like a senior
and I would just get blacked out. So then I
went to college, and college was I mean, I was
black all the time, like I mean, every other day.
(05:06):
I just I everyone knew I was gonna be blagged
out too, like I just I loved I loved it.
I loved it because it it took away that anxiety initially,
you know, of do I have the right to exist
the way I am in this space that I'm in.
(05:29):
Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But do you mind clicking into that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Was like, was there something that was making you feel
maybe you don't deserve to exist in this space the
way you are, or it was kind of just a
general feeling.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, it was just like a general feeling I had
all the time of like not knowing, like not feeling well.
And that is also underlying neurodivergence, you know, that was
underlying autism that I didn't know I had. And I
had been like had this like secret but it was
like only with myself, and it was like all these
things that I hid and I tried to cover up
(06:05):
and make sure no one saw me doing and uh
so that was like my worst nightmare, was like anyone
knowing about any of that kind of stuff, but like
I didn't know it was autism. I didn't have a
name for it. So the alcohol, it kind of like
it took away this anxiety of that part of me
(06:26):
spilling out, you know, so I had more freedom to
exist however I wanted to, because I wasn't scared. But
it also made it easier. So while it made it
easier for me to be myself. It also made it
easier for me to slip into like masks of characters
because I wasn't afraid of somebody calling my bluff is
(06:47):
that yeah, that makes sense, totally, totally. So alcohol was
like the best thing ever for me because it I
finally felt like I could enjoy light because I wasn't
scared of And it's like I always want to find
like an emotion or like a direct thing to pinpoint
(07:09):
what I'm afraid of, but I'm really just not not
even sure. I think it might at the end of
the day be a lack of control over how people
could react, and like maybe people could react, and I'm
thinking of so many different ways more than just rejection.
I'm afraid of people like they could get violent.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Me.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I don't know, like I could, I could go anywhere,
like my brain could. I just I can panic from
people's reactions, and so I had the alcohol took away
a lot of that fear of like other people's reactions
to me. So that was like in college, I really
started like drinking, but I wasn't drinking every single day.
(07:48):
I ended up moving back in with my parents, but
I hadn't really had a drinking problem yet, but I
would say that that's when I kind of started drinking
every day. But I did have a job, so I
on my lunch break, I would go have a drink
because I needed something to help me get through that
last half of the shift. And then I'd get home
(08:10):
and have drinks. But it wasn't to the point to
where I was waking up and not feeling good. This
is all in a span of you know, I'm twenty
eight now, I've been sover two years. So but from
when I was eighteen to when I was yeah, twenty six,
whatever time.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, it's a long time.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, so it started. I mean it's still a lot
of alcohol being consumed and still like some blackouts here
and there. But now let's say like a bachelor, I'm
twenty three, I'm I'm trying to get as much alcohol
as I can. I have the best time of my life,
I get. I mean, I am petrified all the time
(08:53):
at all of these things I have to do after
the show, so like you know, these big events and things.
I remember going to Ellen, and I'm just drinking my
way through all because I'm so nervous. So and I'm
just so scared I'm gonna humiliate myself. So I know,
if I get drunk, then I'm gonna just be lucy.
I'm gonna be loose and I'll be able to be
(09:13):
myself and it'll go great. So I was like, I
need to have that alcohol though, in order to be myself.
Like that is what I truly I believed.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I was like to be afraid to be yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yes, yes, exactly. And it was like a mental thing
in my I was like a mental thing that I
had though, like I'm not going to be safe until
I have the alcohol, like you know, like I need
that first. So it's kind of like a the way
things went in my head. It was like a rule
of how it goes in my head. And if I
couldn't follow that rule that I had. Sorry, that's my
(09:46):
friend Sam. She actually was my friend from college, so
she's seen me through all of this.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Oh did she did she come in the camera? Because
I didn't see her. She's been just right on the edge.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
She's just she's just sucky real quick. She's throwing something away.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You don't have to duck, Hello, Sam, how are you?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
She said, you don't have to duck. Hello, Sam, how
are you? She's a best's a best? I love her.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, so that was the rule in your head. Yep,
you had to drink in order to be okay, to
be yourself.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So then you know, I just started smuggling alcohol everywhere
because I need to know that I can't rely on
going somewhere and they're being alcohol I got to bring
my own so around this time, just like post bachelor
days until then I go post like Bachelor in Paradise
(10:41):
the first time, and then COVID. Then I started dating someone.
And when I was dating this person, I wasn't drinking
as much because they didn't really like to drink, but
I still needed it because I couldn't even relax in
this relationship without it because I was so scared of
them thinking that I was a weird freak, because I
was like they're going to see that weird side of
(11:03):
me or like that, like I'm I'm a I need
to be able to like not care, like I need
to be able to relax. I need to be able
to be who I am. But it's like I didn't understand,
you know, like you can't not be who you are,
but you know that's besides the point there was at some.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Point you don't want to not be who you are, right,
Like that's that's what's so human about the story, is
like you were dying to just be able to be
who you are and have that be safe.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Absolutely absolutely, you get it. You get it. Yes, uh.
And so in my relationship, I started this is when
I started like really sneaky drinking, like I would hide
alcohol in like the night stand I had, and I
would like drinking when they weren't around, and then like
brush my teeth. And he had said something a couple
(11:57):
of times, but that's like whenever, like we were all drinking.
He was like one time, I remember I threw something
like no one was in the room but me, and
I was just mad and I threw I remember it
was a bag of sugar Bear hair gummy vitamins and
I was like throwing all this stuff at the chair
and I remember I hit the edge of the TV
and I broke the TV, and I like forgot that
(12:17):
I did it. And then the next morning we like
turned on the TV and I was like, oh no,
I was like I have to tell you something, and
he was like, you did what. I was like, I know,
I know. I was like, oh my god, this is
so embarrassing. So of course I just made me want
to drink more.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
And then after a while we broke up. I was
just devastated because this was like I was with them
every day during COVID, and so I just started drinking
and even more even more. Then I got to the
point where I'm drinking every day, and I am I
have to, like I don't want to anymore, I have to,
Like I'm getting violently ill, I'm waking up with the
(13:05):
I'm waking up with the shakes, and I'm like, I
can't do anything. Because I had moved on from a
bottle of wine a day too, I needed something. I
couldn't drink the wine in the morning because maybe two
bottles of wine a day, because I couldn't drink wine
in the morning because it would make me sick. So
I was like, I need to get I need to
get this done faster. So then I went to a
liquor and I went vodka, and I mean I chased
(13:28):
vodka with anything and it was easy. And so then
I was drinking almost a whole bottle of Cheeto's a day,
and like I mean, I I was, oh my gosh,
like I still have this journal that I have from
when I was drinking this much because I felt so sick,
like and I knew, I knew things were not going
(13:49):
good for me. And I I could like feel like
my body shutting down, like I was like I'm gonna die,
Like I know I'm gonna die. And my friend actually
recently passed away from like this same kind of thing, man. Yeah,
(14:10):
And my friend that here here her dad actually passed
away from it too, So it's like a very like
close subject. And so like you know, I've seen it
happen to two other people and like it happened to me.
So like I don't have a partner. I don't have
someone who's going to be at my house with me
all day long, every day. A lot of the time,
it's just.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Going to be me.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, So I I can't stop drinking by myself really,
like I'm like.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Dangerous because you would be so sick and nobody could
potentially be there.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, And I didn't really know that. I was like
waiting for this opportune opportunity, this moment to have someone
with me because like I didn't know that, but it
was like all subconscious because uh, it's like, looking back
on it, I can see why I did it. But
my friend Natasha stayed the night with me. This is
like post Bachelor. The second time I went into Paradise,
(15:04):
same time I went to Paradise, I was so drunk
during that. I first of all, when I went in there,
I went in with contact bottle solutions or contact bottle
contact solution bottles.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Oh, full of liquor m hm.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Drank them all before I even got to the beach,
like in the hotel before I got Yeah. So then
I was waking up getting withdraws and I was like desperate.
They don't start serving drinks till till noon, so I
was so desperate. I was drinking the mouthwash. Yeah, drinking
the mouthwash.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I've been taking care of people with alcoholism for a
long time and this is actually very common.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
And I remember that I had heard someone say that
they knew someone that was an alcoholic because they were
always drinking mouthwash and they're like locker. And I was like, well,
maybe that'll get me through and it did.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, And it.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Did because I would have had withdraws there in Mexico Lea.
What would I've done. I mean, that would have been
a whole thing. Well, they're building. I do not want
my intervention while we're filming, I.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Know, because you know they would have aired it too.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oh my god, it would have been so exploited.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Oh yeah, it would have been so exploitive. I just
read this article. Sorry, I mean to break into your story,
but I just read this article. I forget what it
was in, but about the Housewives franchise and how it's specifically.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Around alcohol and alcoholism and addiction. How exploitable.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Oh my gosh, I believe it, just like thinking about
what I've seen of the Housewives. Yeah, it's yeah, a
lot of reality TV, does it. It pumps pumps out
the alcohol.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah. So your friend Natasha is spending the night.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yes, so post the second time I go on betro
in Paradise, she was on there with me. She's saying
at my house. She lives in New York and she's
staying at my house in LA And we wake up
the next day and I'm like, I have to tell
you something, and she's like what, And I'm like, I
kind of have a super bad drinking problem and I
really want to stop. So I'm not going to drink
anymore after today, but can you please make sure that
(17:05):
I don't die? I was like, because I don't know
what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, So what was it about Natasha that made her
safe enough for you to be able to take this
plunge with her?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
You know, I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
She's just.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I guess she's just who she is. Like we had,
we had gone through a lot of you know, stuff together,
like being on reality TV together. She she's she's like
a nurturing kind of person too, Like she's just here's
the thing. I think that it's because I know, I
knew that she is the kind of person that wouldn't
(17:44):
like left me hanging, Like I knew that she was
the kind of person who would, like subconsciously I knew
this because I I wouldn't just like assume you know,
I want to assume this, so I uh set her up.
But it's like she's the kind of person who would
help someone and truly help them, not just like half help,
(18:05):
like like actually be in the moment and care about them,
like you know, I just seen probably because i'd seen her,
I've seen her talk about her friends and the people
she cares about, and how she knows so much about
so many of her friends and stuff like that. Just
I guess I had made a bunch of subconscious observations
(18:26):
about her character, and I knew, like, she's she's gonna
she'll take care of me.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, and so you told her, and then.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
She was like, of course. And then I immediately just
started yaking NonStop, and she goes, Okay, well, you're going
to the hospital or you're going to rehab. And I said,
I'm not going to rehab. I have all these animals
at my house. I can't go there. I don't know
what to do. I was like, I'll go to the hospital.
That's fine. So we call the ambulance and I'm like
vigorously shaking, like my whole body is like, I.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Mean, yeah, this is alcohol. With alcohol drawn, it can
be deadly. For Okay, sorry, let me break in as
a doctor and drop a statistic here. You're starting to
describe the development of the DT learance, and one out
of five people with the delirium tremens the DTS that
does not get detox to will die. So, like, if
(19:19):
you're listening, Demy was not being dramatic when she told
her friend, I'm gonna stop drinking and will you make
sure I not die because it can be deadly.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, so God bless Natasha. All right, going to the
hospitals the best.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well, well here's where we get. It gets interesting before
we get to the hospital because because like how you
just said, I wasn't being dramatic. So the ambulance gets here,
I'm sitting on my couch shaking like crazy, and they
take my vitals and it's two men, two white men,
and they they they treated me as if I was
(19:55):
being dramatic. They said, oh, you'll be fine. You'll be
fine after a few days. It's gonna be rough for
a couple of days. And then they start giving me
just a pep talk about, you know, not drinking, and
I'm like, listen, why are.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
You trying to make me cuss on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
It was so frustrating because I felt so terrible and
I was just like, everything in my body is telling
me I'm on my way to death, everything in me.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
But so Natasha stays with me because they gave me
some sofriends, so I stopped puking. We get an IVY
lady to come and the iv lady is like, Hey,
why are you shaking? And at this point we had
called this guy over and I didn't want the guy
to know that I was having alcohol withdraws, but Natasha
and Natasha I was like, what do we do? And
(20:41):
she came up. She's like, we'll tell me of food poisoning.
I was like, okay, great, I've never had food poisoning before,
so I was like, sure, I don't know what it's like.
And so that's what we told this lady and she's
like kind of looking at me funny. And then we
get done with the IV and she's like, I'm really
concerned about the shaking. And I was like eh, and
she was like okay, And so then she leaves, and
then Natasha is leaving. She backs of all her stuff.
(21:05):
She's leaving me with this man, and because this man's
going to watch over me, and she's in the parking
garage and then I'm up here by myself and she's
with him. He's helping her load up the car. She's like,
let me go, say by didn't me one last time?
She walks in. Within one minute, I start having a seizure.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Oh, alcohol withdrawal seizure, which by the way was one
predictable by the level of alcohol withdrawal symptoms that you
were having when the two white men paramedics treated you
like a hysterical.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yep, So they had to come pick me up again.
The same men came and got me. I'm just like, what, what,
what did? What did they? Like? I want to see
the report that they got for that day, Like, I
want to see where it says that they came undermined my,
undermine me and what I was saying, and then had
(21:56):
to come back because I was on the brink of debt.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And you know what I imagine, and obviously I can't know.
I imagine they didn't have ill intent, and they didn't say
to themselves, one out of five people dying, we're just
gonna take the chance that she's one of them. I'm
guessing that's not it. I'm guessing they looked at you
and they didn't see a person who fit their mind's
eye for what a quote unquote severe alcoholic looks like.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And they saw a girl. They saw a girl in
a room full of squash mollows, shaken on her couch,
and they said she's fine, like they I mean, I'm
that's used to it. It's up in my whole life.
Nobody's ever like taken me seriously and when it comes
to that kind of stuff because I'm so dramatic.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Ugh, so you have an alcohol withdrawal seizure. They take
you in the ambulance to the hospital.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I have to stay there for three days. They're pumping
me full of autavan. Loved that. Yeah, I asked the
I asked the guy on the way out. I was like, hey,
can I have some of the adam van He said,
you don't need it? And my parents, my dad and
my stepmom flew in, so they stayed with me for
(23:05):
like a couple of weeks because like after like I
was so sick, like my legs were like alcoholic affects
your nerves, and like that's whenever I knew my my
alcohol problem was getting really bad because I think my
legs are feeling weird and it's kind of hard to
explain Slash remember now, but I just couldn't walk, Like
I was having a really hard time walking around, Like
(23:28):
my legs felt so weird. After I got out of
the hospital, Yeah, do you know what that's about?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, so I'll severe chronic alcohol use.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Actually depletes your B vitamins, both your folate and your
B twelve, and B twelve has everything to do with
how your nerves can conduct their impulses, and so you
actually get fiery sensations what we call neuropathic pain, which
is like burning. You can get numbness, you can like
not feel where your feet are on the floor, and
(24:03):
you start losing your balance.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yes, yes, that's like what it was. It was like
it was like numbness.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, sounds like BE twelve deficiency cost alcohol.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Wow, yes, all I remember too, like all of my
levels were messed up whenever I got there to get
a cat scan too, but everything was fine and yeah,
then I got my parents kind of took care of
me and just for like a week or two, and
then they left. I had a meeting with a doctor,
(24:37):
my primary care doctor to get me on I had
to get on like anti seizure medication you have, I don't.
I guess that's like you have to do that for
a while if you have a seizure us. But it
was like Natasha, I mean, we already know she's the hero,
but like even more so, like when I got to
the hospital, she called everyone, she told like contacted the
(25:01):
people on my phone, let everyone know what was going on,
and like had people get there, like before she left.
I mean, she took care of me so much, and
oh my gosh, I just what an angel? What an angel?
But yeah, yeah, So the after I stopped drinking, I
mean I did it like a month, two months, and
then I was like why is this so easy? Like
(25:23):
why am I not? Like no one could make me
drink right now, Like there's no way I But it
comes back to a rule. This is a new rule.
The rule is we don't drink. That's just the rule.
So like my brain doesn't even consider it and that so.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Your autism is serving you whereas your autism right, yeah,
your autism is serving you now with this.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Rule and how rule bound? Yes, your brain is. I
love that, Demi.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
And that's how I discovered my autism because I like
or like rediscovered it because like in college, I had
this epiphany where I was like, I did I'm autistic,
But it was like a very short lived thing because
everyone was like, no, you're not, and it was not
as talked about then and that was like ten years ago,
and I drink that away. But I had come to
realize it again because I was like, how am I
(26:12):
able to follow this rule I made up? Like I
just made this up, but like I cannot break it.
There's no like, no one could pay me to do it,
you know. And so yeah, and that's how I figured
out that I was autistic. And like, cause that's I
didn't know what rule bound meant, Like I didn't really
understand it. So if anyone had ever asked me if
I was rule bound, I would be like no. But
(26:33):
it's like, oh, the my rules, like the rules that
I I think like are valid applied, Like you know
those rules. Yes, yes, we don't. I don't break I don't.
Like I don't do drugs. That's a rule. I don't drink,
that's a rule.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I think that's so cool, tod me. So, my oldest
son is eighteen. He's a freshman in high school. He
was diagnosed with ADHD when he was six years old,
and so we worked really hard for him to know
that like this is who you are, it's this is
a condition you have. This is amazing, you know, like
here's how you use it to your benefit, et cetera.
(27:09):
And so we were on vacation in Mexico, this is
such a You're like, where does this story coming from?
I promise you it is related.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Now I'm not I'm into it. I'm into it.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So we're in vacation, and on vacation in Mexico. He's
sixteen years old and they're like trying to sell us
a timeshare. And I'm a psychiatrist and so people love
talking to me about all the things, and so the
salesman is like telling us about his childhood. I know
that sounds so crazy, but he's like trying to sell me. Yeah,
he's like telling me about his childhood.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
No, I believe it. It's like when when someone's like
it's someone's like, I'm a nurse and they're like, I
got this thing over here.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So he's like telling us about his childhood, had a
lot of trauma, had.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
A lot of trauma. How he's like trying to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
We're like over breakfast, he's trying to sell us a
timeshare and my sixteen year old son says, you know,
it's like my ADHD. He said, you can consider it
like an ace and a deck of cards. It can
be the low card, or it can be the high card.
Isn't this I know, okay, So the listeners you can't
see Demmy's face, but she's feeling it. Yes, But like
(28:18):
right now, you're autism is like your freaking ace of
spades right now against alcohol and this disorder.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
How cool is that is?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
It's so cool too because like, well, I don't drink,
for one, but also I'm not tempted to if I
go places, so like if I go out, like I hate,
I don't like to go out, but say I want
to see some friends or something, everyone's drinking and I'm like,
oh sorry, and I'm like, I truly cannot express to
(28:49):
you how much I am am okay with you drinking,
and more so get drunker because you're drunken spirits make
me have a good time too. It brings you, guys
up to level of silly. Now everyone's ready to get
extra silly, okay. And then at the end of the night,
do you know how wonderful it feels watching everyone else
be drunk and you are not, And you're like, look
(29:11):
at all of those mistakes I didn't make. Not that
you know, no disrespect to anyone who's getting drunk and sloppy.
I've been there, done that, but it just feels good
to know that, like, Hey, I've kind of got it
more together now and I'm not going to feel like
crap tomorrow and this is awesome and you remember everything.
I got to go to a wedding in Paris. Imagine
(29:31):
if I was drunk.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, it reinforces the value of the rule.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes, So this is like the second question, which this
rule seems like it is at the center of your
magic formula. Are there other things or beliefs or behaviors
or people, like anything at all that is also part
(29:57):
of your recovery formula that like keeps you tethered and
not drinking, not doing drugs.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, I think I'm an a burb. Sorry, please keep
that in. I knew it was gonna come out, and
I was like, I'm gonna come out when I'm talking,
like I need.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
To let it will not be edited out.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I don't care at all. That was honestly one of
the cutest verbs I've probably had. It was like, hold on,
excuse me, So anyway, oh, the magic formula, anything else
it goes definitely like the under okay, so like the
(30:44):
understanding of why the drinking was happening too, So like
not not only am I drinking for the autism thing,
but like a lot I didn't know I was drinking
because I was afraid of people accepting me, not accepting me,
or like if I was doing it right, isn't socializing right?
You know, I didn't know at the time that's what
I'm doing. I'm just doing because it makes me for
(31:07):
not have to think about it. But now sober, there's
so much more clarity and like so much more like
analytical thinking and yeah, so now I'm like figuring out
the reasons behind these behaviors and then experiencing them sober
and being like, what am I gonna do? How do
I have because I feel scared. I'm like, oh, this
is probably this is a time when I would have drank.
(31:29):
What am I going to do? And a lot of
the time it is I need a safe person with me,
so like I need like someone who I can look
to and I can just be like or something and
they there's nothing I could do to where they wouldn't
be safe. Still, yeah, because that people need people, and
(31:50):
like I'm not asking a lot of somebody, you know,
like just to hey, if I look like a deer
in the headlights. That's because I'm feeling more socially awkward
than you could ever imagine, and I'm screaming for help.
So whenever I come up to you, just love me, okay,
just love me back, whatever it is, just let me
do it, because that's me like a like grounding myself back.
(32:11):
That's me like getting that feeling out, you know, like
I don't know, like or sometimes I'll be like, oh
my gosh, I just like, but if I need to
tell you, I just had this mozog over a bit.
I just wanted this, but I don't actually like we
don't need to talk about it. I just needed to
get it out, maybe even literally. Sometimes it will be
I need you to hug me, please squeeze. I'll ask
my friends like please just hold me, hold me, hold
(32:33):
me because I just need that pressure real quick. And
I'll be like thank you. It's like you're squeezing it
out of me. That like fear. So m hmm.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
There's other like tips and tricks, uh, I find like
what I'm interested in. So a lot of the drinking
was about social and living my life so much for
the social aspect and the social value and like social
like do it am I doing the social right, you
know what I mean? And like focusing on that where
(33:04):
of course you don't know who like you are and
you are your loss, Like you haven't been focusing on
any of the things you actually like because you're so
busy scared. You're too busy worrying about if people are
gonna think that it's weird that you like them, so
taking away like a lot of the shame. But doing that,
it can be very lonely and isolating because you kind
(33:26):
of realize, I don't like a lot of the people
I've known and I've been around me and like you know,
they they don't uh, they don't like not benefit me,
but it's not yeah, yes, exactly exactly, and they don't
make me feel good. And once you start feeling good
emotions and you start like learning about yourself and feeling
(33:48):
good about that and you want to share that, you know,
and then someone's making you not feel good about that
that is awful, like that sucks, and and that makes
you feel a negative energy and times you have to
protect yourself from that energy, and it's like you don't
want to lose the person, but you also know that
you're not going to keep growing in this way that
(34:09):
makes you feel good if you have someone kind of
judging you.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I mean that was such a like masterclass Rundown on
how to put together a formula. You were like, first
I like understood the root cause, which was like social right,
and then you were like I was able to know
what the trigger is, which is like when I'm feeling
so awkward and I either have to get it out
or somebody to squeeze it out. And I know what
(34:34):
the fix is, and I have the support system in
place that I already told them in advance. If this
is how I look, this is what it means, and
this is what I need, and then I have to
set healthy boundaries. I'm like translating everything you said into
like psychiatrists speak right, Like it is literally how you
put together a magic formula. And I love that you
(34:55):
were like so open through this journey to I think
it really s it exactly like you said when we
first got on the moment a person can be safe
being themselves.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
The rest of these pieces.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Of the magic formula can open up because you can
actually just ask for what you need and you can
actually just say no, that's not what I need, and
so I'm not here for that, but it does start
with feeling safe.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
The exactly the biggest thing about this all though, is
that I am so privileged enough from white privilege, pretty privilege,
reality TV privilege, et cetera, to have I mean, I
knew I wanted to go on reality TV because I
(35:43):
wanted to get on TV somehow, because I wanted to
get out of the town I was in, because I
needed my freedom. So I'm privileged enough to have this
freedom now to where I don't rely on anyone else.
So that's the thing is, there's probably so many people
feel like me, but they have to. They're so relying
on people who they can't just not talk to, who
(36:05):
they can't get away from. And that is what is
the biggest problem with all of it, is not everyone
can go be a reality TV star like I feel like,
since I got put, since I'm in this position, I
need to talk about it, you know, and I want
to do what I can because I don't know if
(36:26):
I I don't know how I would be if I
wouldn't have gotten into this place of where I can
take the time to dissect myself, dissect my behavior every
day to every level to the point where I have
compassion for everything I've done for myself so much so
(36:47):
that I can't I'm giving making excuses for everybody because
I'm like, oh, I understand why they did that, because
I could totally see blah blah blah blah, and like
this has nothing to do with me, like them yelling
at me whatever, you know. But it's also like that
there's a there's a line. There's a line where it's
like I can am I going to be feeling bad though,
Like if I start feeling bad, then I can't be
(37:08):
around it. If it's you know, I don't know, abusive,
it's such a such a big word, but.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, abusive is a big word. Painful is on the
same spectrum.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
And I think we're kind of conditioned to be like
it wasn't that big a deal. No, it's not that important. No,
it doesn't matter that much. But those things are additive.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
I know, we're so conditioned to weep under the ruger,
you know, especially there. I don't know, it's especially interesting
with family dynamics and how like the families everyone sweeping
everything under the rug, not talking about anything and just
okay with it with the unhealthy dynamic even if you know,
(37:52):
bring light to it, and I'm like, yang, it's still like,
well that works for.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Them, except it doesn't because then your drinking mouthwash, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, Okay, listen, this was amazing, So time.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Flies, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
So much, so much conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
No, I loved it. I loved every minute. So I
want to ask you the last question that I always
ask everybody. I started out at the beginning and I
was like, unaddiction, what do we need to unlearn that
we think we know? What do we need to undo?
From a stigma perspective? What conversation do we need to uncover?
If you wanted to leave our listeners with one piece
(38:35):
of unaddictioned wisdom based on where you've been, where you are,
where you're going, what would it be?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
M Oh my gosh, Like I mean, there's just so
much like it depends on where they're at in their journey.
So like, who am I speaking to people who are
trying to get unaddicted?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, speak to them.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I would say that even though you are ashamed right now,
like about the drinking, don't let that shame stop you
from like asking someone for help because you're gonna be
way more ashamed when you have a seizure in front
of your friends unexpectedly. You know, like the shame is
gonna come no matter what. It's not that bad it
(39:19):
because from there you only go up and and you
can once you once you get through this, Like I mean,
I never could have imagined that I couldn't drink, like
I was, like, I guess maybe by thirty hopefully I'll stop,
Like I don't know, I don't know how I'll ever stop.
(39:40):
And now, like I can't imagine something what it would
take to get me to drink. Like it's you can
get there, is what I'm saying. And I mean I
was drinking mouthwash, Like take the time to to like
get to the root why you're drinking, because that's like
the most important part of how I I mean, the rule, yes,
(40:00):
but the rule it couldn't just stay there without me
knowing why it was there. You know, It's like, how
is this rule working? You know?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Right?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Who knows that? I mean, I don't know if it
would have stayed or not. Who could tell? Because I
had to investigate immediately and was freaking me out. I
was like, shouldn't shouldn't be it shouldn't be this, but
more than just that, figure out what you need the
alcohol for, what you need, whatever it is for, and
just don't stop drinking cold turkey alone. Make sure you,
(40:35):
like I said, get the help, don't I mean, I
know you'll be ashamed of sign state. Don't be ashamed.
I know you'll be ashamed. The shame ain't that bad.
You'll be okay mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much, Dimmy.
This was so awesome to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Thank you, it felt so great to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
My book An Addiction Six line Changing Conversations that Could
Save a Life is now available for pre order at
bookshop dot org, Union Square and Company, Barnes and Noble, Amazon,
and wherever books are sold. If you like to this episode,
please share it with someone you think may need to
hear it. Also, please subscribe to this podcast and leave
(41:20):
a five star review that helps us reach any and
everyone who may be looking for support in the face
of addiction.
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.
I'm a Board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.
Demi Burnette is an American television personality turned social media
influencer from The Bachelor and Bachelor in Paradise Shout Out
(00:46):
to Bachelor Nation. She's an advocate for body positivity, LGBTQ
plus rights, and mental health awareness. In twenty twenty two,
Demi was diagnosed with autism and hopes that in continuing
to share her experience, others can feel less alone.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We had so much fun on this episode.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
There is so much more to Demi and her life
that she shared with us, including her experience with alcohol
use disorder and how symptoms of autism were a major
factor in developing that addiction and how autism has become
her superpower as it relates to staying sober. All right,
(01:28):
thank you Demi for joining us on un Addiction. So
I am a psychiatrist and addiction medicine doctor, been serving
people with addiction for my whole career, and I just
recently wrote this book called Unaddictioned. Six mind changing Conversations
that Could Save a life. And the idea of the
book is like, there are an infinite number of risk
(01:51):
factors that can bring us to addiction, but they kind
of fall into these six categories and teach how to
have those six conversations. And since there are number of
ways in, then there are totally an infinite number of
ways out because you can combine all of these and
everybody's personal journey is their own personal journey. And so
the word un addiction is like, what do we need
(02:13):
to unlearn about addiction that we think we know that's
actually not helpful?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
And what.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Do we need to undo from like a stigma perspective,
the stigmas we have that are like making it worse
for people? And then what are the conversations that we
want to uncover? All with this idea that we could
have fewer people suffering from addiction and finding a path
to recovery.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, you're awesome finding su Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So with that setup, we have the podcast and folks
like you, thank you so much, coming on to have
these conversations, right, like what was my path to recovery
and this idea of your magic formula? Knowing that that
will change over time, but like, what are the pieces
that keep you grounded in recovery? So maybe somebody listening
(03:11):
will be like, oh, that sounds similar to my path.
Oh I can relate to that part of the journey.
Oh maybe I'll try that part of that formula and
maybe it's part of my magic.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So that's the idea.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah, Okay, I love it. I love it. This is
this is doing like really good helpful things, you know,
helpful stuff out there. That's uh. I love doing things
that it's not like, you know, just kind of I mean,
it's always fun to talk about pop culture and whatnot,
but it's it's nice to like just it feels good
and rewarding, not rewarding, maybe fulfilling. That's the sort to
(03:46):
talk about stuff that can save lives.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, so then let's jump in.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Do you mind sharing with us whatever and whatever detail
however you want to share with us what your path
to recovery has been.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think that that's the best, the best way to
you know, help any help people, to be super open
about it, because I know that it's very shameful, and
so I think too. I think the way my brain
works is that to fight the shame, I own it.
I'm not I can't feel the shame if I buy
(04:23):
own it. You know, that's like after recovery or you know,
during recovery. So I I fell in love with alcohol.
I was like eighteen. I went to college and I
had like freedom for the first time. I had a
(04:45):
strict upbringing, very strict, so I didn't like it's a
party that much in high school. And when I did
in high school, I mean I was like a senior
and I would just get blacked out. So then I
went to college, and college was I mean, I was
black all the time, like I mean, every other day.
(05:06):
I just I everyone knew I was gonna be blagged
out too, like I just I loved I loved it.
I loved it because it it took away that anxiety initially,
you know, of do I have the right to exist
the way I am in this space that I'm in.
(05:29):
Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But do you mind clicking into that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Was like, was there something that was making you feel
maybe you don't deserve to exist in this space the
way you are, or it was kind of just a
general feeling.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, it was just like a general feeling I had
all the time of like not knowing, like not feeling well.
And that is also underlying neurodivergence, you know, that was
underlying autism that I didn't know I had. And I
had been like had this like secret but it was
like only with myself, and it was like all these
things that I hid and I tried to cover up
(06:05):
and make sure no one saw me doing and uh
so that was like my worst nightmare, was like anyone
knowing about any of that kind of stuff, but like
I didn't know it was autism. I didn't have a
name for it. So the alcohol, it kind of like
it took away this anxiety of that part of me
(06:26):
spilling out, you know, so I had more freedom to
exist however I wanted to, because I wasn't scared. But
it also made it easier. So while it made it
easier for me to be myself. It also made it
easier for me to slip into like masks of characters
because I wasn't afraid of somebody calling my bluff is
(06:47):
that yeah, that makes sense, totally, totally. So alcohol was
like the best thing ever for me because it I
finally felt like I could enjoy light because I wasn't
scared of And it's like I always want to find
like an emotion or like a direct thing to pinpoint
(07:09):
what I'm afraid of, but I'm really just not not
even sure. I think it might at the end of
the day be a lack of control over how people
could react, and like maybe people could react, and I'm
thinking of so many different ways more than just rejection.
I'm afraid of people like they could get violent.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Me.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I don't know, like I could, I could go anywhere,
like my brain could. I just I can panic from
people's reactions, and so I had the alcohol took away
a lot of that fear of like other people's reactions
to me. So that was like in college, I really
started like drinking, but I wasn't drinking every single day.
(07:48):
I ended up moving back in with my parents, but
I hadn't really had a drinking problem yet, but I
would say that that's when I kind of started drinking
every day. But I did have a job, so I
on my lunch break, I would go have a drink
because I needed something to help me get through that
last half of the shift. And then I'd get home
(08:10):
and have drinks. But it wasn't to the point to
where I was waking up and not feeling good. This
is all in a span of you know, I'm twenty
eight now, I've been sover two years. So but from
when I was eighteen to when I was yeah, twenty six,
whatever time.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, it's a long time.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, so it started. I mean it's still a lot
of alcohol being consumed and still like some blackouts here
and there. But now let's say like a bachelor, I'm
twenty three, I'm I'm trying to get as much alcohol
as I can. I have the best time of my life,
I get. I mean, I am petrified all the time
(08:53):
at all of these things I have to do after
the show, so like you know, these big events and things.
I remember going to Ellen, and I'm just drinking my
way through all because I'm so nervous. So and I'm
just so scared I'm gonna humiliate myself. So I know,
if I get drunk, then I'm gonna just be lucy.
I'm gonna be loose and I'll be able to be
(09:13):
myself and it'll go great. So I was like, I
need to have that alcohol though, in order to be myself.
Like that is what I truly I believed.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I was like to be afraid to be yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yes, yes, exactly. And it was like a mental thing
in my I was like a mental thing that I
had though, like I'm not going to be safe until
I have the alcohol, like you know, like I need
that first. So it's kind of like a the way
things went in my head. It was like a rule
of how it goes in my head. And if I
couldn't follow that rule that I had. Sorry, that's my
(09:46):
friend Sam. She actually was my friend from college, so
she's seen me through all of this.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Oh did she did she come in the camera? Because
I didn't see her. She's been just right on the edge.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
She's just she's just sucky real quick. She's throwing something away.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You don't have to duck, Hello, Sam, how are you?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
She said, you don't have to duck. Hello, Sam, how
are you? She's a best's a best? I love her.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, so that was the rule in your head. Yep,
you had to drink in order to be okay, to
be yourself.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So then you know, I just started smuggling alcohol everywhere
because I need to know that I can't rely on
going somewhere and they're being alcohol I got to bring
my own so around this time, just like post bachelor
days until then I go post like Bachelor in Paradise
(10:41):
the first time, and then COVID. Then I started dating someone.
And when I was dating this person, I wasn't drinking
as much because they didn't really like to drink, but
I still needed it because I couldn't even relax in
this relationship without it because I was so scared of
them thinking that I was a weird freak, because I
was like they're going to see that weird side of
(11:03):
me or like that, like I'm I'm a I need
to be able to like not care, like I need
to be able to relax. I need to be able
to be who I am. But it's like I didn't understand,
you know, like you can't not be who you are,
but you know that's besides the point there was at some.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Point you don't want to not be who you are, right,
Like that's that's what's so human about the story, is
like you were dying to just be able to be
who you are and have that be safe.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Absolutely absolutely, you get it. You get it. Yes, uh.
And so in my relationship, I started this is when
I started like really sneaky drinking, like I would hide
alcohol in like the night stand I had, and I
would like drinking when they weren't around, and then like
brush my teeth. And he had said something a couple
(11:57):
of times, but that's like whenever, like we were all drinking.
He was like one time, I remember I threw something
like no one was in the room but me, and
I was just mad and I threw I remember it
was a bag of sugar Bear hair gummy vitamins and
I was like throwing all this stuff at the chair
and I remember I hit the edge of the TV
and I broke the TV, and I like forgot that
(12:17):
I did it. And then the next morning we like
turned on the TV and I was like, oh no,
I was like I have to tell you something, and
he was like, you did what. I was like, I know,
I know. I was like, oh my god, this is
so embarrassing. So of course I just made me want
to drink more.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
And then after a while we broke up. I was
just devastated because this was like I was with them
every day during COVID, and so I just started drinking
and even more even more. Then I got to the
point where I'm drinking every day, and I am I
have to, like I don't want to anymore, I have to,
Like I'm getting violently ill, I'm waking up with the
(13:05):
I'm waking up with the shakes, and I'm like, I
can't do anything. Because I had moved on from a
bottle of wine a day too, I needed something. I
couldn't drink the wine in the morning because maybe two
bottles of wine a day, because I couldn't drink wine
in the morning because it would make me sick. So
I was like, I need to get I need to
get this done faster. So then I went to a
liquor and I went vodka, and I mean I chased
(13:28):
vodka with anything and it was easy. And so then
I was drinking almost a whole bottle of Cheeto's a day,
and like I mean, I I was, oh my gosh,
like I still have this journal that I have from
when I was drinking this much because I felt so sick,
like and I knew, I knew things were not going
(13:49):
good for me. And I I could like feel like
my body shutting down, like I was like I'm gonna die,
Like I know I'm gonna die. And my friend actually
recently passed away from like this same kind of thing, man. Yeah,
(14:10):
And my friend that here here her dad actually passed
away from it too, So it's like a very like
close subject. And so like you know, I've seen it
happen to two other people and like it happened to me.
So like I don't have a partner. I don't have
someone who's going to be at my house with me
all day long, every day. A lot of the time,
it's just.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Going to be me.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, So I I can't stop drinking by myself really,
like I'm like.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Dangerous because you would be so sick and nobody could
potentially be there.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, And I didn't really know that. I was like
waiting for this opportune opportunity, this moment to have someone
with me because like I didn't know that, but it
was like all subconscious because uh, it's like, looking back
on it, I can see why I did it. But
my friend Natasha stayed the night with me. This is
like post Bachelor. The second time I went into Paradise,
(15:04):
same time I went to Paradise, I was so drunk
during that. I first of all, when I went in there,
I went in with contact bottle solutions or contact bottle
contact solution bottles.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Oh, full of liquor m hm.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Drank them all before I even got to the beach,
like in the hotel before I got Yeah. So then
I was waking up getting withdraws and I was like desperate.
They don't start serving drinks till till noon, so I
was so desperate. I was drinking the mouthwash. Yeah, drinking
the mouthwash.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I've been taking care of people with alcoholism for a
long time and this is actually very common.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
And I remember that I had heard someone say that
they knew someone that was an alcoholic because they were
always drinking mouthwash and they're like locker. And I was like, well,
maybe that'll get me through and it did.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, And it.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Did because I would have had withdraws there in Mexico Lea.
What would I've done. I mean, that would have been
a whole thing. Well, they're building. I do not want
my intervention while we're filming, I.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Know, because you know they would have aired it too.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oh my god, it would have been so exploited.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Oh yeah, it would have been so exploitive. I just
read this article. Sorry, I mean to break into your story,
but I just read this article. I forget what it
was in, but about the Housewives franchise and how it's specifically.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Around alcohol and alcoholism and addiction. How exploitable.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Oh my gosh, I believe it, just like thinking about
what I've seen of the Housewives. Yeah, it's yeah, a
lot of reality TV, does it. It pumps pumps out
the alcohol.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah. So your friend Natasha is spending the night.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yes, so post the second time I go on betro
in Paradise, she was on there with me. She's saying
at my house. She lives in New York and she's
staying at my house in LA And we wake up
the next day and I'm like, I have to tell
you something, and she's like what, And I'm like, I
kind of have a super bad drinking problem and I
really want to stop. So I'm not going to drink
anymore after today, but can you please make sure that
(17:05):
I don't die? I was like, because I don't know
what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, So what was it about Natasha that made her
safe enough for you to be able to take this
plunge with her?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
You know, I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
She's just.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
I guess she's just who she is. Like we had,
we had gone through a lot of you know, stuff together,
like being on reality TV together. She she's she's like
a nurturing kind of person too, Like she's just here's
the thing. I think that it's because I know, I
knew that she is the kind of person that wouldn't
(17:44):
like left me hanging, Like I knew that she was
the kind of person who would, like subconsciously I knew
this because I I wouldn't just like assume you know,
I want to assume this, so I uh set her up.
But it's like she's the kind of person who would
help someone and truly help them, not just like half help,
(18:05):
like like actually be in the moment and care about them,
like you know, I just seen probably because i'd seen her,
I've seen her talk about her friends and the people
she cares about, and how she knows so much about
so many of her friends and stuff like that. Just
I guess I had made a bunch of subconscious observations
(18:26):
about her character, and I knew, like, she's she's gonna
she'll take care of me.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, and so you told her, and then.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
She was like, of course. And then I immediately just
started yaking NonStop, and she goes, Okay, well, you're going
to the hospital or you're going to rehab. And I said,
I'm not going to rehab. I have all these animals
at my house. I can't go there. I don't know
what to do. I was like, I'll go to the hospital.
That's fine. So we call the ambulance and I'm like
vigorously shaking, like my whole body is like, I.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Mean, yeah, this is alcohol. With alcohol drawn, it can
be deadly. For Okay, sorry, let me break in as
a doctor and drop a statistic here. You're starting to
describe the development of the DT learance, and one out
of five people with the delirium tremens the DTS that
does not get detox to will die. So, like, if
(19:19):
you're listening, Demy was not being dramatic when she told
her friend, I'm gonna stop drinking and will you make
sure I not die because it can be deadly.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, so God bless Natasha. All right, going to the
hospitals the best.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well, well here's where we get. It gets interesting before
we get to the hospital because because like how you
just said, I wasn't being dramatic. So the ambulance gets here,
I'm sitting on my couch shaking like crazy, and they
take my vitals and it's two men, two white men,
and they they they treated me as if I was
(19:55):
being dramatic. They said, oh, you'll be fine. You'll be
fine after a few days. It's gonna be rough for
a couple of days. And then they start giving me
just a pep talk about, you know, not drinking, and
I'm like, listen, why are.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
You trying to make me cuss on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
It was so frustrating because I felt so terrible and
I was just like, everything in my body is telling
me I'm on my way to death, everything in me.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
But so Natasha stays with me because they gave me
some sofriends, so I stopped puking. We get an IVY
lady to come and the iv lady is like, Hey,
why are you shaking? And at this point we had
called this guy over and I didn't want the guy
to know that I was having alcohol withdraws, but Natasha
and Natasha I was like, what do we do? And
(20:41):
she came up. She's like, we'll tell me of food poisoning.
I was like, okay, great, I've never had food poisoning before,
so I was like, sure, I don't know what it's like.
And so that's what we told this lady and she's
like kind of looking at me funny. And then we
get done with the IV and she's like, I'm really
concerned about the shaking. And I was like eh, and
she was like okay, And so then she leaves, and
then Natasha is leaving. She backs of all her stuff.
(21:05):
She's leaving me with this man, and because this man's
going to watch over me, and she's in the parking
garage and then I'm up here by myself and she's
with him. He's helping her load up the car. She's like,
let me go, say by didn't me one last time?
She walks in. Within one minute, I start having a seizure.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Oh, alcohol withdrawal seizure, which by the way was one
predictable by the level of alcohol withdrawal symptoms that you
were having when the two white men paramedics treated you
like a hysterical.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yep, So they had to come pick me up again.
The same men came and got me. I'm just like, what, what,
what did? What did they? Like? I want to see
the report that they got for that day, Like, I
want to see where it says that they came undermined my,
undermine me and what I was saying, and then had
(21:56):
to come back because I was on the brink of debt.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
And you know what I imagine, and obviously I can't know.
I imagine they didn't have ill intent, and they didn't say
to themselves, one out of five people dying, we're just
gonna take the chance that she's one of them. I'm
guessing that's not it. I'm guessing they looked at you
and they didn't see a person who fit their mind's
eye for what a quote unquote severe alcoholic looks like.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And they saw a girl. They saw a girl in
a room full of squash mollows, shaken on her couch,
and they said she's fine, like they I mean, I'm
that's used to it. It's up in my whole life.
Nobody's ever like taken me seriously and when it comes
to that kind of stuff because I'm so dramatic.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Ugh, so you have an alcohol withdrawal seizure. They take
you in the ambulance to the hospital.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I have to stay there for three days. They're pumping
me full of autavan. Loved that. Yeah, I asked the
I asked the guy on the way out. I was like, hey,
can I have some of the adam van He said,
you don't need it? And my parents, my dad and
my stepmom flew in, so they stayed with me for
(23:05):
like a couple of weeks because like after like I
was so sick, like my legs were like alcoholic affects
your nerves, and like that's whenever I knew my my
alcohol problem was getting really bad because I think my
legs are feeling weird and it's kind of hard to
explain Slash remember now, but I just couldn't walk, Like
I was having a really hard time walking around, Like
(23:28):
my legs felt so weird. After I got out of
the hospital, Yeah, do you know what that's about?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, so I'll severe chronic alcohol use.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Actually depletes your B vitamins, both your folate and your
B twelve, and B twelve has everything to do with
how your nerves can conduct their impulses, and so you
actually get fiery sensations what we call neuropathic pain, which
is like burning. You can get numbness, you can like
not feel where your feet are on the floor, and
(24:03):
you start losing your balance.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yes, yes, that's like what it was. It was like
it was like numbness.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, sounds like BE twelve deficiency cost alcohol.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Wow, yes, all I remember too, like all of my
levels were messed up whenever I got there to get
a cat scan too, but everything was fine and yeah,
then I got my parents kind of took care of
me and just for like a week or two, and
then they left. I had a meeting with a doctor,
(24:37):
my primary care doctor to get me on I had
to get on like anti seizure medication you have, I don't.
I guess that's like you have to do that for
a while if you have a seizure us. But it
was like Natasha, I mean, we already know she's the hero,
but like even more so, like when I got to
the hospital, she called everyone, she told like contacted the
(25:01):
people on my phone, let everyone know what was going on,
and like had people get there, like before she left.
I mean, she took care of me so much, and
oh my gosh, I just what an angel? What an angel?
But yeah, yeah, So the after I stopped drinking, I
mean I did it like a month, two months, and
then I was like why is this so easy? Like
(25:23):
why am I not? Like no one could make me
drink right now, Like there's no way I But it
comes back to a rule. This is a new rule.
The rule is we don't drink. That's just the rule.
So like my brain doesn't even consider it and that so.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Your autism is serving you whereas your autism right, yeah,
your autism is serving you now with this.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Rule and how rule bound? Yes, your brain is. I
love that, Demi.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
And that's how I discovered my autism because I like
or like rediscovered it because like in college, I had
this epiphany where I was like, I did I'm autistic,
But it was like a very short lived thing because
everyone was like, no, you're not, and it was not
as talked about then and that was like ten years ago,
and I drink that away. But I had come to
realize it again because I was like, how am I
(26:12):
able to follow this rule I made up? Like I
just made this up, but like I cannot break it.
There's no like, no one could pay me to do it,
you know. And so yeah, and that's how I figured
out that I was autistic. And like, cause that's I
didn't know what rule bound meant, Like I didn't really
understand it. So if anyone had ever asked me if
I was rule bound, I would be like no. But
(26:33):
it's like, oh, the my rules, like the rules that
I I think like are valid applied, Like you know
those rules. Yes, yes, we don't. I don't break I don't.
Like I don't do drugs. That's a rule. I don't drink,
that's a rule.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I think that's so cool, tod me. So, my oldest
son is eighteen. He's a freshman in high school. He
was diagnosed with ADHD when he was six years old,
and so we worked really hard for him to know
that like this is who you are, it's this is
a condition you have. This is amazing, you know, like
here's how you use it to your benefit, et cetera.
(27:09):
And so we were on vacation in Mexico, this is
such a You're like, where does this story coming from?
I promise you it is related.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Now I'm not I'm into it. I'm into it.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So we're in vacation, and on vacation in Mexico. He's
sixteen years old and they're like trying to sell us
a timeshare. And I'm a psychiatrist and so people love
talking to me about all the things, and so the
salesman is like telling us about his childhood. I know
that sounds so crazy, but he's like trying to sell me. Yeah,
he's like telling me about his childhood.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
No, I believe it. It's like when when someone's like
it's someone's like, I'm a nurse and they're like, I
got this thing over here.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So he's like telling us about his childhood, had a
lot of trauma, had.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
A lot of trauma. How he's like trying to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
We're like over breakfast, he's trying to sell us a
timeshare and my sixteen year old son says, you know,
it's like my ADHD. He said, you can consider it
like an ace and a deck of cards. It can
be the low card, or it can be the high card.
Isn't this I know, okay, So the listeners you can't
see Demmy's face, but she's feeling it. Yes, But like
(28:18):
right now, you're autism is like your freaking ace of
spades right now against alcohol and this disorder.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
How cool is that is?
Speaker 3 (28:29):
It's so cool too because like, well, I don't drink,
for one, but also I'm not tempted to if I
go places, so like if I go out, like I hate,
I don't like to go out, but say I want
to see some friends or something, everyone's drinking and I'm like,
oh sorry, and I'm like, I truly cannot express to
(28:49):
you how much I am am okay with you drinking,
and more so get drunker because you're drunken spirits make
me have a good time too. It brings you, guys
up to level of silly. Now everyone's ready to get
extra silly, okay. And then at the end of the night,
do you know how wonderful it feels watching everyone else
be drunk and you are not, And you're like, look
(29:11):
at all of those mistakes I didn't make. Not that
you know, no disrespect to anyone who's getting drunk and sloppy.
I've been there, done that, but it just feels good
to know that, like, Hey, I've kind of got it
more together now and I'm not going to feel like
crap tomorrow and this is awesome and you remember everything.
I got to go to a wedding in Paris. Imagine
(29:31):
if I was drunk.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, it reinforces the value of the rule.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes, So this is like the second question, which this
rule seems like it is at the center of your
magic formula. Are there other things or beliefs or behaviors
or people, like anything at all that is also part
(29:57):
of your recovery formula that like keeps you tethered and
not drinking, not doing drugs.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, I think I'm an a burb. Sorry, please keep
that in. I knew it was gonna come out, and
I was like, I'm gonna come out when I'm talking,
like I need.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
To let it will not be edited out.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I don't care at all. That was honestly one of
the cutest verbs I've probably had. It was like, hold on,
excuse me, So anyway, oh, the magic formula, anything else
it goes definitely like the under okay, so like the
(30:44):
understanding of why the drinking was happening too, So like
not not only am I drinking for the autism thing,
but like a lot I didn't know I was drinking
because I was afraid of people accepting me, not accepting me,
or like if I was doing it right, isn't socializing right?
You know, I didn't know at the time that's what
I'm doing. I'm just doing because it makes me for
(31:07):
not have to think about it. But now sober, there's
so much more clarity and like so much more like
analytical thinking and yeah, so now I'm like figuring out
the reasons behind these behaviors and then experiencing them sober
and being like, what am I gonna do? How do
I have because I feel scared. I'm like, oh, this
is probably this is a time when I would have drank.
(31:29):
What am I going to do? And a lot of
the time it is I need a safe person with me,
so like I need like someone who I can look
to and I can just be like or something and
they there's nothing I could do to where they wouldn't
be safe. Still, yeah, because that people need people, and
(31:50):
like I'm not asking a lot of somebody, you know,
like just to hey, if I look like a deer
in the headlights. That's because I'm feeling more socially awkward
than you could ever imagine, and I'm screaming for help.
So whenever I come up to you, just love me, okay,
just love me back, whatever it is, just let me
do it, because that's me like a like grounding myself back.
(32:11):
That's me like getting that feeling out, you know, like
I don't know, like or sometimes I'll be like, oh
my gosh, I just like, but if I need to
tell you, I just had this mozog over a bit.
I just wanted this, but I don't actually like we
don't need to talk about it. I just needed to
get it out, maybe even literally. Sometimes it will be
I need you to hug me, please squeeze. I'll ask
my friends like please just hold me, hold me, hold
(32:33):
me because I just need that pressure real quick. And
I'll be like thank you. It's like you're squeezing it
out of me. That like fear. So m hmm.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
There's other like tips and tricks, uh, I find like
what I'm interested in. So a lot of the drinking
was about social and living my life so much for
the social aspect and the social value and like social
like do it am I doing the social right, you
know what I mean? And like focusing on that where
(33:04):
of course you don't know who like you are and
you are your loss, Like you haven't been focusing on
any of the things you actually like because you're so
busy scared. You're too busy worrying about if people are
gonna think that it's weird that you like them, so
taking away like a lot of the shame. But doing that,
it can be very lonely and isolating because you kind
(33:26):
of realize, I don't like a lot of the people
I've known and I've been around me and like you know,
they they don't uh, they don't like not benefit me,
but it's not yeah, yes, exactly exactly, and they don't
make me feel good. And once you start feeling good
emotions and you start like learning about yourself and feeling
(33:48):
good about that and you want to share that, you know,
and then someone's making you not feel good about that
that is awful, like that sucks, and and that makes
you feel a negative energy and times you have to
protect yourself from that energy, and it's like you don't
want to lose the person, but you also know that
you're not going to keep growing in this way that
(34:09):
makes you feel good if you have someone kind of
judging you.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I mean that was such a like masterclass Rundown on
how to put together a formula. You were like, first
I like understood the root cause, which was like social right,
and then you were like I was able to know
what the trigger is, which is like when I'm feeling
so awkward and I either have to get it out
or somebody to squeeze it out. And I know what
(34:34):
the fix is, and I have the support system in
place that I already told them in advance. If this
is how I look, this is what it means, and
this is what I need, and then I have to
set healthy boundaries. I'm like translating everything you said into
like psychiatrists speak right, Like it is literally how you
put together a magic formula. And I love that you
(34:55):
were like so open through this journey to I think
it really s it exactly like you said when we
first got on the moment a person can be safe
being themselves.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
The rest of these pieces.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Of the magic formula can open up because you can
actually just ask for what you need and you can
actually just say no, that's not what I need, and
so I'm not here for that, but it does start
with feeling safe.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
The exactly the biggest thing about this all though, is
that I am so privileged enough from white privilege, pretty privilege,
reality TV privilege, et cetera, to have I mean, I
knew I wanted to go on reality TV because I
(35:43):
wanted to get on TV somehow, because I wanted to
get out of the town I was in, because I
needed my freedom. So I'm privileged enough to have this
freedom now to where I don't rely on anyone else.
So that's the thing is, there's probably so many people
feel like me, but they have to. They're so relying
on people who they can't just not talk to, who
(36:05):
they can't get away from. And that is what is
the biggest problem with all of it, is not everyone
can go be a reality TV star like I feel like,
since I got put, since I'm in this position, I
need to talk about it, you know, and I want
to do what I can because I don't know if
(36:26):
I I don't know how I would be if I
wouldn't have gotten into this place of where I can
take the time to dissect myself, dissect my behavior every
day to every level to the point where I have
compassion for everything I've done for myself so much so
(36:47):
that I can't I'm giving making excuses for everybody because
I'm like, oh, I understand why they did that, because
I could totally see blah blah blah blah, and like
this has nothing to do with me, like them yelling
at me whatever, you know. But it's also like that
there's a there's a line. There's a line where it's
like I can am I going to be feeling bad though,
Like if I start feeling bad, then I can't be
(37:08):
around it. If it's you know, I don't know, abusive,
it's such a such a big word, but.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, abusive is a big word. Painful is on the
same spectrum.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
And I think we're kind of conditioned to be like
it wasn't that big a deal. No, it's not that important. No,
it doesn't matter that much. But those things are additive.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
I know, we're so conditioned to weep under the ruger,
you know, especially there. I don't know, it's especially interesting
with family dynamics and how like the families everyone sweeping
everything under the rug, not talking about anything and just
okay with it with the unhealthy dynamic even if you know,
(37:52):
bring light to it, and I'm like, yang, it's still like,
well that works for.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Them, except it doesn't because then your drinking mouthwash, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, Okay, listen, this was amazing, So time.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Flies, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
So much, so much conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
No, I loved it. I loved every minute. So I
want to ask you the last question that I always
ask everybody. I started out at the beginning and I
was like, unaddiction, what do we need to unlearn that
we think we know? What do we need to undo?
From a stigma perspective? What conversation do we need to uncover?
If you wanted to leave our listeners with one piece
(38:35):
of unaddictioned wisdom based on where you've been, where you are,
where you're going, what would it be?
Speaker 3 (38:44):
M Oh my gosh, Like I mean, there's just so
much like it depends on where they're at in their journey.
So like, who am I speaking to people who are
trying to get unaddicted?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, speak to them.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I would say that even though you are ashamed right now,
like about the drinking, don't let that shame stop you
from like asking someone for help because you're gonna be
way more ashamed when you have a seizure in front
of your friends unexpectedly. You know, like the shame is
gonna come no matter what. It's not that bad it
(39:19):
because from there you only go up and and you
can once you once you get through this, Like I mean,
I never could have imagined that I couldn't drink, like
I was, like, I guess maybe by thirty hopefully I'll stop,
Like I don't know, I don't know how I'll ever stop.
(39:40):
And now, like I can't imagine something what it would
take to get me to drink. Like it's you can
get there, is what I'm saying. And I mean I
was drinking mouthwash, Like take the time to to like
get to the root why you're drinking, because that's like
the most important part of how I I mean, the rule, yes,
(40:00):
but the rule it couldn't just stay there without me
knowing why it was there. You know, It's like, how
is this rule working? You know?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Right?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Who knows that? I mean, I don't know if it
would have stayed or not. Who could tell? Because I
had to investigate immediately and was freaking me out. I
was like, shouldn't shouldn't be it shouldn't be this, but
more than just that, figure out what you need the
alcohol for, what you need, whatever it is for, and
just don't stop drinking cold turkey alone. Make sure you,
(40:35):
like I said, get the help, don't I mean, I
know you'll be ashamed of sign state. Don't be ashamed.
I know you'll be ashamed. The shame ain't that bad.
You'll be okay mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I love it. I love it. Thank you so much, Dimmy.
This was so awesome to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Thank you, it felt so great to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
My book An Addiction Six line Changing Conversations that Could
Save a Life is now available for pre order at
bookshop dot org, Union Square and Company, Barnes and Noble, Amazon,
and wherever books are sold. If you like to this episode,
please share it with someone you think may need to
hear it. Also, please subscribe to this podcast and leave
(41:20):
a five star review that helps us reach any and
everyone who may be looking for support in the face
of addiction.
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