April 22, 2024 • 21 mins
Host Eric Allen is joined in the Audi Performance Studio by Jets senior football advisor Phil Savage.
1:30 - Phil reflects on the journey from the start of the draft season to the end
3:30 - Preparing for multiple scenarios on draft weekend
7:20 - The making of the big board with horizontals and verticals
8:45 - Importance of the top 30 visits
16:15 - Changed landscape of college football and its draft impact
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome into the official Jests podcast. Eric Allen here at
one Tetch Drive, joined by a busy man these days
especially that's Phil Savage. Thanks for coming to the studio
here just a couple of days prior to the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You're welcome, Erica. Good to be here, and you know
this marks the end of our draft journey, so to speak,
So looking forward to the weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Okay, So when you're in the city and people are
asking you about your job, what do you tell them
about that journey?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
When people ask about the draft and like, okay, how
do you where do you fit into all of this?
I usually describe it as eleven month research project. Yeah,
and of course the draft weekend is the culmination of
that project. But you know, I started obviously last summer.
I want to say that I grated about one hundred
(00:52):
players going into the fall, and then August first hit
the road and went to probably forty schools. During the fall.
I know I went to specifically twenty two live games.
I did keep track of that. And then of course
the season ends, and then that's when I call what
I call the fog of confusion sets in. From early
(01:16):
January until this week, there's just so much noise and
so much information out there, and you know, you really
try to stay true to what you did during the fall,
your background, research what you saw in a practice or
a game, and then marry that up with actually meeting
the players at the All Star Games. The combine. Then
of course there are visits here to Florham Park and ultimately,
(01:39):
you know, put it together, and you know, I talk
a little bit sometimes about how the evaluation of the
players is one piece of this, but the actual selection
of the players is the other part, and that really
is what last week and this week is all about
the actual strategy of how we're going to get in
position to get some of the player that we really want.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
What is actually happening over these final couple days until
this thing commences in Detroit Thursday night, Well, we'll.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Have our final medical meetings in terms of, you know,
whether the players are healthy, what the expectations would be
when they come to us, you know, in the next
couple of weeks. You know, what's their forecast for training
camp if they were coming off of an injury as
an example, then our security background, those are all finalized
(02:30):
in terms of you know, if anything has cropped up
this spring or anything was discovered on a player that
maybe we missed during the fall. So those are sort
of the administrative pieces of it. And then of course
with the actual player rankings and you know, our what
I call the strategy, the game plan. You know, we
(02:50):
go through that quite a bit in terms of, okay,
which players would we move up for, and if there
are a handful of players, you know, at ten, would
we consider moving back? How far back would we go?
What's the range of movement that we're willing to operate within,
say at the tenth pick. And then of course after
(03:13):
that we really try to put it on paper and
stay true to it because you know, as Jody calls it,
it is our it's our playshet, and the coaches would
never go into a game and just try to wing it.
You know, they're going to have a play sheet, and
so this is our playshet, and we've tried to simplify it.
I mean, going back, you know, twenty five years to
(03:35):
my days at the Ravens, you know, we just tried
to narrow it down so that on draft weekend it
would be a calm draft room and one that we've
done all of our homework and We've already made a
lot of decisions before we actually get to the draft weekend,
so that when the clock starts, you know, we're ready.
We're ready to turn a name in or at least
(03:58):
move down and say, okay, well turn in another name
here in fifteen or twenty more minutes.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You're such a wily vet as season pro. How much
do you enjoy going over the potential scenarios as far
as hey, if there's a run of quarterbacks here, Hey,
if these top receivers go off the board, whatever, whatever
the case may be. But just going through all those things.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, you know, I love the meetings. I love the
evaluation meetings when we're reading our reports and going through
like where they should be ranked, you know, on our
vertical list, and you know, it's a bit like I'm
obviously not an attorney, didn't go to law school. But
at times you're trying to fight for a player, and
then other times you're trying to defend that player, and
(04:45):
other times you're trying to prosecute a player and try
to get them down. And so I love the give
and take, you know, amongst the scouts and between the
coaches and the scouts, and sometimes we all see it
the same way, and other times, you know, there's a
lot of diversity of opinion, so to speak. But I
really enjoy that week of meetings, both in February and
(05:06):
in early April, and then of course these strategy meetings
they're fun too, because you're really trying to take that
full three hundred and sixty three degree vision of Okay,
how is this going to play out? And you know,
we all talk to people, and so there's a lot
of different opinions, a lot of mock drafts out there,
and so that's when that's when that information can at
(05:30):
least contribute to the conversation of like, hey, I think
so and so is going to make it right to
pick ten, or you know, this player has no shot
of being there at ten. Every person I've talked to
out there says that when they've talked to this nine
teams or the eight teams in front of us, because
the Bears are going twice, Hey there's this guy, he's
going to get picked by somebody.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
How much information sharing is it is going on throughout
the National Football League because you got to protect your
own endure. But at the same time, like you just mentioned,
you have peers in the business who have different interest
as far as what they want to do for their
team to improve it. But there has to be some
(06:13):
of that going on prior to the draft.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, I think everybody is trying to, you know, glean
some level of information, but it also sort of expands
your thoughts. Like you know, for a certain name, you
start hearing a certain name in the top ten that
you know two weeks ago wasn't up there, then okay,
so let's let's talk about this player for a moment
(06:37):
in terms of, you know, if he's interesting to us, well, wow,
we thought he would be there, Now he's not going
to be there, and so that can definitely impact the
conversation as you're trying to map it all out. But
you know, I think that probably, you know, certain members
of the media are reliable in terms of what they're
getting from other teams, and so I think they kind
(06:59):
of end up being the conduit between you know, it's
not like we're picking up the phone calling the Titans
or you know, calling the Commanders, Hey, what are you
guys doing in the draft, But between these different intermediaries,
I think that there's probably some of that information sharing
that goes on.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Phil, you just mentioned it before. You're talking about verticals,
so help us with the big board, the draft board,
as far as verticals are concerned and horizontals.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I think you know, there's really two different rankings
going on simultaneously. You have the within the position, you know,
all the quarterbacks, all the running backs in a column,
so to speak. And then as you start building out
your board, now you have to start doing that horizontal assessment. Okay,
is this running back better than this linebacker who's got
(07:46):
the same grade? And you know, what are the what
are the tie breakers to separate those players, And that's
where that that master list so to speak, comes comes
to pass. And you know it's once you get into
the draft and you pick a certain position, sometimes you're
not going to double up on the same position. So,
you know, the beautiful part about the draft now with
it being spread over three days, is that you can
(08:08):
reassess at the end of the first round, you can
reassess after the end of the second, third rounds and
so in the old days, you had to have everything
planned out for the first three rounds and everything planned out,
you know, for the fourth through the twelfth round. Unfortunately,
showing my age here. But you know, nowadays you get
that chance to it's almost like having a quarter break,
(08:31):
so to speak. Between each of the three days.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Can you speak to the thirty visits as far as
who you actually bring in the building, because I think
there's a lot of misnomers out there that that ultimately
means that Jet's are going to pick from a group
of these thirty for each guy. I got to imagine
it's a different case. But when you guys are going
about selecting that list, how do you determine it?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, it's definitely a case by case. You know, sometimes
there are non combine prospects that are brought in because
they have not had a medical examination. So if you're
serious about really considering them, you don't want to pick
somebody that's never had a physical. So that kind of
is that bucket of players. And then you know there
are other guys that you know, maybe there's something in
(09:20):
their background that is somewhat concerning, could be off the field,
you know, could be on the field. You know, it
could be a matter of sitting with the coaches and
going through, you know, our offensive or defensive scheme, or
talking to the special teams coordinator and you know, figuring out, okay,
how much football does this player really know? And then
of course there's other situations where there's some sort of
(09:42):
character misstep that may have happened in the past. Hey,
we want to really delve into that. Explain from your
standpoint what happened, and see if it matches up with
what our own people have said. So there's a lot
of there's a variety of reasons why certain players are
brought in, and you know, we can only bring third
So I would say that that's where a lot of
(10:03):
the value comes in from the All Star Games, right
and the Combine. You know, we interview virtually every player
that's at the All Star Games, so that's hundreds of players.
And then that gives you the leeway to now, you know,
be a little bit more flexible with your thirty visits
because hey, we touched that we talked to him at
(10:24):
the Hula Bowl, or we had a good sit down
discussion with him at the Senior Bowl. And then of
course you've get the forty five at the Combine, plus
the non formal, the informal interviews rather that they call
them where the coaches and some of our scouts are
grabbing those guys. So we have hundreds of interviews and
hundreds of contacts, you know, through this process, and then
(10:48):
ultimately those thirty there's some usual specific reason why we're
bringing them in.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Can you speak to the work the personnel staff you
said the eleven months is going into the draft, but
like the area of scouts and everybody involved, and also
getting the coaches in late because during the season you'll
be concentrating on game thing and these guys ready to
play on Sundays. But you bring those guys in here
(11:15):
in the spring as well. And do they present in
terms of their thoughts on some of these draftable players.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, let's talk about the coaches first, and then I'll
go back eleven months ago. But you know, with the coaches, uh,
they'll come in and they'll rank their players, you know,
within their position, and then you know, we'll have a
discussion with them. Okay, well why do you like this player?
You know, why do you think he fits what we're doing,
or why is he not a fit for this game
that we're trying to run, what have you. So you know,
(11:45):
those can those conversations can be difficult at times, and
you know, sometimes it just flows, and then other times
it can get a little you know, a little touch
and go right. The thing that that I enjoy about,
you know, Joe and our staff is I think everybody
wants to get it right for the Jets, and at
some point you have to let go of your own
(12:05):
pride and your own ego and you don't say, you
know what, I was probably too high on that player,
or you know, I was maybe a little low on aymore.
You know what, I agree with it, And then other
times you say, look, I disagree with what you're saying,
but if this is who we pick, I'm on board
with it because this is for the Jets. And you know,
I have to admit that. You know, as a when
you're in it as a younger scout, you're wanting to
(12:26):
prove yourself sure, and so a lot of times that's
a lot it was more difficult to let go of
that at a younger age than it is now. You know,
I feel great about the chance of getting an opportunity
to speak about a player in the meeting amongst my
peers and say this is what I think, this is
what you're paying us for. And so I've tried to
be an example in a lot of ways. So for
(12:48):
our guys to realize that, hey, you know, this is
what scouting is all about. It's all about the the
you know, it's your opinion, it's what you think. And
you know, I've seen a lot of different situations where
you know, a player was being driven from the airport
to the facility and the guy driving the van brought
(13:11):
some piece of information to the table that impacted whether
we pushed the guy up or pushed him down, you know,
in terms of his personality, and it made a difference,
you know, in the overall picture of things. So, yeah,
the coaches come into it, you know, during the springtime
and then just going back, you know, it's one thing
to watch the tapes and evaluate the player. It's a
(13:33):
whole another for our people to go to the school
and you know, the way college football is now. In
the old days, you go to school and have ten
names and there would be six or seven of them
you'd actually write up and you could put it to
bed and be done with it in October. Nowadays, because
(13:53):
you've got COVID seniors, regular seniors, fourth year juniors, third
year junior's, red shirt sophomores, there are certain schools you
will go to, they'll give you twenty five thirty thirty
five names, and so our guys are having to monitor
those thirty five names from August all the way through
(14:16):
until the declaration date because the schools themselves, Hey, we
don't know if he's going or staying. He could transfer,
or he could go to the league, or he could
come back. And so the volume of the volume, the
number of prospects that are out there, has really changed
(14:36):
through the years. And I think that's our most difficult
task when you're actually on the road walking into USC
or Tennessee or wherever it is, and then to go
get the background information and hit three or four, sometimes
five or six contacts at the school to get that
background and the personality and the you know, the personal
(14:57):
character of the individual at know entered into the machine,
so to speak. Our people are extremely diligent, you know,
in that regard, and it's time consuming and it's tedious,
and it takes a lot of patience to do it.
And I think our guys do it well. You know,
(15:19):
in the springtime, John Carr, myself, even Joe, even the coaches,
you know, we're doing players that, like I didn't necessarily
go to the school or see them in a game,
so it's what's considered a cross check. But I'll go
back and read about the background. I won't read the
football report. I'll read the background because I don't want
(15:39):
to be influenced by what they said, you know, in
terms of their evaluation. I want to have my own.
But the background work that's done is unlike anything I've
been a part of. I mean, it's very detailed, and
you know, our guys do a lot of a lot
of work to get that done.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I could talk to you for hours and then you
get a hurt out. So we got on with a
couple quick ones. With what you just said about the
college landscape. Do you anticipate the underclassmen continuing to be
a fewer number because of the nil right now?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yes, I mean that's definitely been the trend as we're
moving forward. And you know, I made the point in
one of our meetings. I'm like, Wow, this draft is
really composed of the five star, three year juniors that
we're going to play three seasons of college and I'm
going to the NFL no matter what, and then fifth
and six year seniors who are like I might be
a third day guy. I may as well stay in
(16:40):
school and get paid. I'm kind of a local hero
and I'm making a lot of money and then I'll
be a six or seventh rounder anyway. And so there
is emerging of these two worlds. I mean, we're having
to evaluate players who have played three years of college
versus guys that have been in college.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
For six years, and that.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
A lot can happen in three years, so you know,
we have to keep be mindful of that, so to speak.
But yeah, I think absolutely, and I think it's probably
a good thing because I think we would rather get
a more closer to finished product in the NFL than
someone who has a wafer thin resume.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
All Right, kudos to Ethan Greenberg for this topic. He
wants to know about the red Star. What does the
red star mean in the scouting community and what does
it mean here at the Jets.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well, the background on it quickly is we had an
older scout named Ron Marsinak. He was part of the
Cowboys staff under Tom Landry and Gilbrant back in the
nineteen seventies, late seventies and nineteen eighties. He came to
the Browns turned Ravens in the nineties and he had
a player named Scott Frost who was a quarterback at Nebraska.
(17:52):
But you know, his parents had been like Olympian level athletes.
His brother was a football player. He was a straight
A student, he was a winner, and you know, coach
Ron just blurted out, he goes, you know, hey, Ozzie
meeting Ozzie Newsom or GM, Hey Ozzy, this guy would
be my Red Star. And so that really resonated because
Scott Frost wasn't a first round pick. You know, he
(18:14):
ended up being like a third round pick. And so
we came up with the idea of, Okay, every scout
should be able to nominate a red Star from their
area or their respective schools. That's not necessarily the most
talented or best player, but is maybe the best person
in terms of when he comes in. He's going to
be at every practice, he's going to make every lift,
(18:35):
he's going to be on the front row of the meetings.
You know, he's going to be he's going to be
a coach on the field, if you will, and he's
just going to check every box from an intangible standpoint. Internally,
he's going to bring a lot to the organization and
so that was where the Red Star started and we've
done it ever since and now it's spread to several
different organizations and you know, we're going to do it
(18:58):
Wednesday at two thirty.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Guys will give you their Red Stars and also do
you have a favorite red Star story?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, yeah, you know, all of our all of our
road scouts will have a Red Star, and now it's
sort of expanded to each coordinator it's a red Star
and uh so it ends up and Analytics gets a
Red Star. So it's a it's a good number of
red Stars that'll be in there, and uh yeah, wow,
(19:26):
you know there there have been there have been a
lot of them, you know, over the years that have
have actually done well. And you know, also a lot
of Red Stars will go to other teams and then
it's like I told you that he's gonna be a
he was gonna be a you know, a real value
in the in the fifth round or what have you.
But wow, there's uh, you know, we give we give
(19:48):
awards for the previous year, so we'll give a Red
Star award winner. My committee, our committee is going through
that now and uh yeah, they get a nice gift
certificate if they dominate a red star who goes on
do great things.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Very cool. So get you out with this one. Do
you like where this roster is at in terms of
the way you guys approach free agency? Because Joe spoke
to the media the other day, Hey, you never want
to go into the draft with a glaring need and
the flexibility maybe that you guys have. Can you speak
(20:22):
to that with the tenth overall selection and seven pixel
for yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think it's played out well in terms of, Hey,
at least on paper, we can go out here and
line up if we didn't do anything right, and so
that's giving us You use the word flexibility. Do we
need to move up, should we slide back, should we
try to grab an extra pick by moving back, or
we just take a player at ten and move on
to the third round. And so I think that, you know,
(20:46):
we're not married to any certain position, We're not married
to any certain player. You know, we have a pool
of players at virtually every level of the draft. So
I think it's played out well. I think the hard
part it's just, you know, how do you forecast? Okay,
where will our need be six months from now? And
so you know, I've always advocated let's take players that
(21:11):
are you know, are a universal fit. You know, let's
take players that have some versatility amongst you know, in
terms of their you know, position, Wherewithal can move around
some and you know, I think that, uh, I think
we're we're in a good spot going into the draft.
You know, people are always saying, well, you know, you
could have been you know, top six, No, we ended
(21:33):
up tenth, and you know what we're going to make
that we're gonna make. We're going to maximize that to
its potential, whether we move up, move back, or stay
the same.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Thanks Phil, We're all looking forward to it, and I'm
sure we'll be talking this WEEKND.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, good enough, Thank you,
Welcome into the official Jests podcast. Eric Allen here at
one Tetch Drive, joined by a busy man these days
especially that's Phil Savage. Thanks for coming to the studio
here just a couple of days prior to the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
You're welcome, Erica. Good to be here, and you know
this marks the end of our draft journey, so to speak,
So looking forward to the weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Okay, So when you're in the city and people are
asking you about your job, what do you tell them
about that journey?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
When people ask about the draft and like, okay, how
do you where do you fit into all of this?
I usually describe it as eleven month research project. Yeah,
and of course the draft weekend is the culmination of
that project. But you know, I started obviously last summer.
I want to say that I grated about one hundred
(00:52):
players going into the fall, and then August first hit
the road and went to probably forty schools. During the fall.
I know I went to specifically twenty two live games.
I did keep track of that. And then of course
the season ends, and then that's when I call what
I call the fog of confusion sets in. From early
(01:16):
January until this week, there's just so much noise and
so much information out there, and you know, you really
try to stay true to what you did during the fall,
your background, research what you saw in a practice or
a game, and then marry that up with actually meeting
the players at the All Star Games. The combine. Then
of course there are visits here to Florham Park and ultimately,
(01:39):
you know, put it together, and you know, I talk
a little bit sometimes about how the evaluation of the
players is one piece of this, but the actual selection
of the players is the other part, and that really
is what last week and this week is all about
the actual strategy of how we're going to get in
position to get some of the player that we really want.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
What is actually happening over these final couple days until
this thing commences in Detroit Thursday night, Well, we'll.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Have our final medical meetings in terms of, you know,
whether the players are healthy, what the expectations would be
when they come to us, you know, in the next
couple of weeks. You know, what's their forecast for training
camp if they were coming off of an injury as
an example, then our security background, those are all finalized
(02:30):
in terms of you know, if anything has cropped up
this spring or anything was discovered on a player that
maybe we missed during the fall. So those are sort
of the administrative pieces of it. And then of course
with the actual player rankings and you know, our what
I call the strategy, the game plan. You know, we
(02:50):
go through that quite a bit in terms of, okay,
which players would we move up for, and if there
are a handful of players, you know, at ten, would
we consider moving back? How far back would we go?
What's the range of movement that we're willing to operate within,
say at the tenth pick. And then of course after
(03:13):
that we really try to put it on paper and
stay true to it because you know, as Jody calls it,
it is our it's our playshet, and the coaches would
never go into a game and just try to wing it.
You know, they're going to have a play sheet, and
so this is our playshet, and we've tried to simplify it.
I mean, going back, you know, twenty five years to
(03:35):
my days at the Ravens, you know, we just tried
to narrow it down so that on draft weekend it
would be a calm draft room and one that we've
done all of our homework and We've already made a
lot of decisions before we actually get to the draft weekend,
so that when the clock starts, you know, we're ready.
We're ready to turn a name in or at least
(03:58):
move down and say, okay, well turn in another name
here in fifteen or twenty more minutes.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
You're such a wily vet as season pro. How much
do you enjoy going over the potential scenarios as far
as hey, if there's a run of quarterbacks here, Hey,
if these top receivers go off the board, whatever, whatever
the case may be. But just going through all those things.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, you know, I love the meetings. I love the
evaluation meetings when we're reading our reports and going through
like where they should be ranked, you know, on our
vertical list, and you know, it's a bit like I'm
obviously not an attorney, didn't go to law school. But
at times you're trying to fight for a player, and
then other times you're trying to defend that player, and
(04:45):
other times you're trying to prosecute a player and try
to get them down. And so I love the give
and take, you know, amongst the scouts and between the
coaches and the scouts, and sometimes we all see it
the same way, and other times, you know, there's a
lot of diversity of opinion, so to speak. But I
really enjoy that week of meetings, both in February and
(05:06):
in early April, and then of course these strategy meetings
they're fun too, because you're really trying to take that
full three hundred and sixty three degree vision of Okay,
how is this going to play out? And you know,
we all talk to people, and so there's a lot
of different opinions, a lot of mock drafts out there,
and so that's when that's when that information can at
(05:30):
least contribute to the conversation of like, hey, I think
so and so is going to make it right to
pick ten, or you know, this player has no shot
of being there at ten. Every person I've talked to
out there says that when they've talked to this nine
teams or the eight teams in front of us, because
the Bears are going twice, Hey there's this guy, he's
going to get picked by somebody.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
How much information sharing is it is going on throughout
the National Football League because you got to protect your
own endure. But at the same time, like you just mentioned,
you have peers in the business who have different interest
as far as what they want to do for their
team to improve it. But there has to be some
(06:13):
of that going on prior to the draft.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, I think everybody is trying to, you know, glean
some level of information, but it also sort of expands
your thoughts. Like you know, for a certain name, you
start hearing a certain name in the top ten that
you know two weeks ago wasn't up there, then okay,
so let's let's talk about this player for a moment
(06:37):
in terms of, you know, if he's interesting to us, well, wow,
we thought he would be there, Now he's not going
to be there, and so that can definitely impact the
conversation as you're trying to map it all out. But
you know, I think that probably, you know, certain members
of the media are reliable in terms of what they're
getting from other teams, and so I think they kind
(06:59):
of end up being the conduit between you know, it's
not like we're picking up the phone calling the Titans
or you know, calling the Commanders, Hey, what are you
guys doing in the draft, But between these different intermediaries,
I think that there's probably some of that information sharing
that goes on.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Phil, you just mentioned it before. You're talking about verticals,
so help us with the big board, the draft board,
as far as verticals are concerned and horizontals.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, I think you know, there's really two different rankings
going on simultaneously. You have the within the position, you know,
all the quarterbacks, all the running backs in a column,
so to speak. And then as you start building out
your board, now you have to start doing that horizontal assessment. Okay,
is this running back better than this linebacker who's got
(07:46):
the same grade? And you know, what are the what
are the tie breakers to separate those players, And that's
where that that master list so to speak, comes comes
to pass. And you know it's once you get into
the draft and you pick a certain position, sometimes you're
not going to double up on the same position. So,
you know, the beautiful part about the draft now with
it being spread over three days, is that you can
(08:08):
reassess at the end of the first round, you can
reassess after the end of the second, third rounds and
so in the old days, you had to have everything
planned out for the first three rounds and everything planned out,
you know, for the fourth through the twelfth round. Unfortunately,
showing my age here. But you know, nowadays you get
that chance to it's almost like having a quarter break,
(08:31):
so to speak. Between each of the three days.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Can you speak to the thirty visits as far as
who you actually bring in the building, because I think
there's a lot of misnomers out there that that ultimately
means that Jet's are going to pick from a group
of these thirty for each guy. I got to imagine
it's a different case. But when you guys are going
about selecting that list, how do you determine it?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, it's definitely a case by case. You know, sometimes
there are non combine prospects that are brought in because
they have not had a medical examination. So if you're
serious about really considering them, you don't want to pick
somebody that's never had a physical. So that kind of
is that bucket of players. And then you know there
are other guys that you know, maybe there's something in
(09:20):
their background that is somewhat concerning, could be off the field,
you know, could be on the field. You know, it
could be a matter of sitting with the coaches and
going through, you know, our offensive or defensive scheme, or
talking to the special teams coordinator and you know, figuring out, okay,
how much football does this player really know? And then
of course there's other situations where there's some sort of
(09:42):
character misstep that may have happened in the past. Hey,
we want to really delve into that. Explain from your
standpoint what happened, and see if it matches up with
what our own people have said. So there's a lot
of there's a variety of reasons why certain players are
brought in, and you know, we can only bring third
So I would say that that's where a lot of
(10:03):
the value comes in from the All Star Games, right
and the Combine. You know, we interview virtually every player
that's at the All Star Games, so that's hundreds of players.
And then that gives you the leeway to now, you know,
be a little bit more flexible with your thirty visits
because hey, we touched that we talked to him at
(10:24):
the Hula Bowl, or we had a good sit down
discussion with him at the Senior Bowl. And then of
course you've get the forty five at the Combine, plus
the non formal, the informal interviews rather that they call
them where the coaches and some of our scouts are
grabbing those guys. So we have hundreds of interviews and
hundreds of contacts, you know, through this process, and then
(10:48):
ultimately those thirty there's some usual specific reason why we're
bringing them in.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Can you speak to the work the personnel staff you
said the eleven months is going into the draft, but
like the area of scouts and everybody involved, and also
getting the coaches in late because during the season you'll
be concentrating on game thing and these guys ready to
play on Sundays. But you bring those guys in here
(11:15):
in the spring as well. And do they present in
terms of their thoughts on some of these draftable players.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, let's talk about the coaches first, and then I'll
go back eleven months ago. But you know, with the coaches, uh,
they'll come in and they'll rank their players, you know,
within their position, and then you know, we'll have a
discussion with them. Okay, well why do you like this player?
You know, why do you think he fits what we're doing,
or why is he not a fit for this game
that we're trying to run, what have you. So you know,
(11:45):
those can those conversations can be difficult at times, and
you know, sometimes it just flows, and then other times
it can get a little you know, a little touch
and go right. The thing that that I enjoy about,
you know, Joe and our staff is I think everybody
wants to get it right for the Jets, and at
some point you have to let go of your own
(12:05):
pride and your own ego and you don't say, you
know what, I was probably too high on that player,
or you know, I was maybe a little low on aymore.
You know what, I agree with it, And then other
times you say, look, I disagree with what you're saying,
but if this is who we pick, I'm on board
with it because this is for the Jets. And you know,
I have to admit that. You know, as a when
you're in it as a younger scout, you're wanting to
(12:26):
prove yourself sure, and so a lot of times that's
a lot it was more difficult to let go of
that at a younger age than it is now. You know,
I feel great about the chance of getting an opportunity
to speak about a player in the meeting amongst my
peers and say this is what I think, this is
what you're paying us for. And so I've tried to
be an example in a lot of ways. So for
(12:48):
our guys to realize that, hey, you know, this is
what scouting is all about. It's all about the the
you know, it's your opinion, it's what you think. And
you know, I've seen a lot of different situations where
you know, a player was being driven from the airport
to the facility and the guy driving the van brought
(13:11):
some piece of information to the table that impacted whether
we pushed the guy up or pushed him down, you know,
in terms of his personality, and it made a difference,
you know, in the overall picture of things. So, yeah,
the coaches come into it, you know, during the springtime
and then just going back, you know, it's one thing
to watch the tapes and evaluate the player. It's a
(13:33):
whole another for our people to go to the school
and you know, the way college football is now. In
the old days, you go to school and have ten
names and there would be six or seven of them
you'd actually write up and you could put it to
bed and be done with it in October. Nowadays, because
(13:53):
you've got COVID seniors, regular seniors, fourth year juniors, third
year junior's, red shirt sophomores, there are certain schools you
will go to, they'll give you twenty five thirty thirty
five names, and so our guys are having to monitor
those thirty five names from August all the way through
(14:16):
until the declaration date because the schools themselves, Hey, we
don't know if he's going or staying. He could transfer,
or he could go to the league, or he could
come back. And so the volume of the volume, the
number of prospects that are out there, has really changed
(14:36):
through the years. And I think that's our most difficult
task when you're actually on the road walking into USC
or Tennessee or wherever it is, and then to go
get the background information and hit three or four, sometimes
five or six contacts at the school to get that
background and the personality and the you know, the personal
(14:57):
character of the individual at know entered into the machine,
so to speak. Our people are extremely diligent, you know,
in that regard, and it's time consuming and it's tedious,
and it takes a lot of patience to do it.
And I think our guys do it well. You know,
(15:19):
in the springtime, John Carr, myself, even Joe, even the coaches,
you know, we're doing players that, like I didn't necessarily
go to the school or see them in a game,
so it's what's considered a cross check. But I'll go
back and read about the background. I won't read the
football report. I'll read the background because I don't want
(15:39):
to be influenced by what they said, you know, in
terms of their evaluation. I want to have my own.
But the background work that's done is unlike anything I've
been a part of. I mean, it's very detailed, and
you know, our guys do a lot of a lot
of work to get that done.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I could talk to you for hours and then you
get a hurt out. So we got on with a
couple quick ones. With what you just said about the
college landscape. Do you anticipate the underclassmen continuing to be
a fewer number because of the nil right now?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yes, I mean that's definitely been the trend as we're
moving forward. And you know, I made the point in
one of our meetings. I'm like, Wow, this draft is
really composed of the five star, three year juniors that
we're going to play three seasons of college and I'm
going to the NFL no matter what, and then fifth
and six year seniors who are like I might be
a third day guy. I may as well stay in
(16:40):
school and get paid. I'm kind of a local hero
and I'm making a lot of money and then I'll
be a six or seventh rounder anyway. And so there
is emerging of these two worlds. I mean, we're having
to evaluate players who have played three years of college
versus guys that have been in college.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
For six years, and that.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
A lot can happen in three years, so you know,
we have to keep be mindful of that, so to speak.
But yeah, I think absolutely, and I think it's probably
a good thing because I think we would rather get
a more closer to finished product in the NFL than
someone who has a wafer thin resume.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
All Right, kudos to Ethan Greenberg for this topic. He
wants to know about the red Star. What does the
red star mean in the scouting community and what does
it mean here at the Jets.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well, the background on it quickly is we had an
older scout named Ron Marsinak. He was part of the
Cowboys staff under Tom Landry and Gilbrant back in the
nineteen seventies, late seventies and nineteen eighties. He came to
the Browns turned Ravens in the nineties and he had
a player named Scott Frost who was a quarterback at Nebraska.
(17:52):
But you know, his parents had been like Olympian level athletes.
His brother was a football player. He was a straight
A student, he was a winner, and you know, coach
Ron just blurted out, he goes, you know, hey, Ozzie
meeting Ozzie Newsom or GM, Hey Ozzy, this guy would
be my Red Star. And so that really resonated because
Scott Frost wasn't a first round pick. You know, he
(18:14):
ended up being like a third round pick. And so
we came up with the idea of, Okay, every scout
should be able to nominate a red Star from their
area or their respective schools. That's not necessarily the most
talented or best player, but is maybe the best person
in terms of when he comes in. He's going to
be at every practice, he's going to make every lift,
(18:35):
he's going to be on the front row of the meetings.
You know, he's going to be he's going to be
a coach on the field, if you will, and he's
just going to check every box from an intangible standpoint. Internally,
he's going to bring a lot to the organization and
so that was where the Red Star started and we've
done it ever since and now it's spread to several
different organizations and you know, we're going to do it
(18:58):
Wednesday at two thirty.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Guys will give you their Red Stars and also do
you have a favorite red Star story?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Well, yeah, you know, all of our all of our
road scouts will have a Red Star, and now it's
sort of expanded to each coordinator it's a red Star
and uh so it ends up and Analytics gets a
Red Star. So it's a it's a good number of
red Stars that'll be in there, and uh yeah, wow,
(19:26):
you know there there have been there have been a
lot of them, you know, over the years that have
have actually done well. And you know, also a lot
of Red Stars will go to other teams and then
it's like I told you that he's gonna be a
he was gonna be a you know, a real value
in the in the fifth round or what have you.
But wow, there's uh, you know, we give we give
(19:48):
awards for the previous year, so we'll give a Red
Star award winner. My committee, our committee is going through
that now and uh yeah, they get a nice gift
certificate if they dominate a red star who goes on
do great things.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Very cool. So get you out with this one. Do
you like where this roster is at in terms of
the way you guys approach free agency? Because Joe spoke
to the media the other day, Hey, you never want
to go into the draft with a glaring need and
the flexibility maybe that you guys have. Can you speak
(20:22):
to that with the tenth overall selection and seven pixel
for yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think it's played out well in terms of, Hey,
at least on paper, we can go out here and
line up if we didn't do anything right, and so
that's giving us You use the word flexibility. Do we
need to move up, should we slide back, should we
try to grab an extra pick by moving back, or
we just take a player at ten and move on
to the third round. And so I think that, you know,
(20:46):
we're not married to any certain position, We're not married
to any certain player. You know, we have a pool
of players at virtually every level of the draft. So
I think it's played out well. I think the hard
part it's just, you know, how do you forecast? Okay,
where will our need be six months from now? And
so you know, I've always advocated let's take players that
(21:11):
are you know, are a universal fit. You know, let's
take players that have some versatility amongst you know, in
terms of their you know, position, Wherewithal can move around
some and you know, I think that, uh, I think
we're we're in a good spot going into the draft.
You know, people are always saying, well, you know, you
could have been you know, top six, No, we ended
(21:33):
up tenth, and you know what we're going to make
that we're gonna make. We're going to maximize that to
its potential, whether we move up, move back, or stay
the same.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Thanks Phil, We're all looking forward to it, and I'm
sure we'll be talking this WEEKND.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, good enough, Thank you,
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