April 29, 2024 • 40 mins
Bloomberg's Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow look at Tesla getting a tentative approval for its driving system in China. Plus, Paramount is expected to oust its CEO ahead of earnings, and SoFi shares drop after 2Q guidance disappoints.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From Bahard.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We're Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.
This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Love Love.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Caroline Heindet Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York and.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
I made Love Low in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg
Technology coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Tesla gets some tentative approval for its driving system in China.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Details ahead plus paramount expected to oustit CEO ahead of
earning tonight, we'll bring you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
The latest and so far shares they drop after Q
two guidance disappoints. We're going to discuss all of it
with the CEO, Anthony Noto. Well, first, let's checking on
these markets, because we're cautiously up on the nawstack at
the moment, up three tenths of a percent. We've got
a big week. You've got the FED, you've got the
all important claims, we've.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Got jobs data.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Friday, we're seeing the NASDAK still managing to be up
about forty eight points. Now we're seeing a ten year
yield actually diving back some four or five basis points.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Let's call it ahead of the all important Federal Reserve.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And indeed just where we see this economy, this interest
rate environment going notably a lot capturing the attention on
the macro perspective. What's happening in Japan at the moment. Look,
we've got a holiday period that means some of the
trading is going to be more muted in Japan, but
the yen some big volatility over the course of the
weekend Monday trading, We're down a percentage point on the
dollar of US as the end the yen goes higher.
(01:30):
Was it Japanese boj intervention? So far they remain mum
on the subject. We look forward to what's happening in
terms of another dollar related asset, this one Bitcoin down
versus the US dollar by about one and a quarter percent.
Now we're still seeing perhaps a little bit of a
risk off feel to bitcoin more generally and atf flows
for sixty eight hundred and fifty nine, and what are
you looking at on the micro the ed.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Well Tesla and Tesla is a big, almost surprise story
this Monday, the stock up twelve point four percent. It's
just a few tens percent away from its biggest jump
since January of twenty twenty two. Very similar gains to
what we saw April twenty fourth, the day after earnings,
the story prelim or tentative approval for full self driving
(02:13):
in China. That's according to a Bloomberg source. Two subsets
of that a partnership with Baidu on the InCAR mapping
specifically for the China market, and then also an agreement
over data and privacy or terms on data and privacy
that will allow it to move forward with FSD. Big
reaction in the market. Elon Musk himself went to China
(02:36):
over the weekend met with Premier Lee Chung, which was
itself a surprise seven days after he bailed on India.
And there's a lot to unpick in this one, but
it's a big move higher on the Tesla stock carract.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, we got to digame with none other than Craig
Shrudelle Bloomberg of course all over this story throughout the
day and indeed well previous night. It was a surprise,
and it looks as though the meeting bore fruit.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
What exactly does this mean for.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
The overall robotaxi autonomous vehicle kind of future that elm.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Pains, Yeah, we have to really separate out robotaxi and
what Tesla calls full self driving because that nomenclature has
been a misnomer. It is a driver assistance system. When
you activate it, you're in control of the vehicle, You're
responsible for supervising it.
Speaker 7 (03:23):
And if you do get into.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
A crash, Tesla has has shown a tendency to turn
around and blame you the driver. And so there's a
big difference between this system Tesla calls FSD and this
robotaxi that Musk has managed to get Wall Street excited about,
despite the fact that he's been talking about it as
a concept now, you know, since twenty sixteen at least.
(03:47):
But this is a big development in the sense that FSD,
for all its shortcomings and the progress that still needs
to be made for it to be you know, you know,
more widely used and accept it is bringing in incremental revenue,
but only in certain markets in the US. This is
something that Tesla charges eight thousand dollars for or ninety
(04:10):
nine dollars a month subscription. If it can you know,
make arrangements to get incremental revenue out of its customers
in China, it could boost its business there at a
time it could sorely use.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
A lift Craig is best. I can tell you've been
logged on your Blue Mog terminal for like twenty seven
hours straight, coordinating our teams in China, the US, in Europe.
Just to explain the chronology of what happened, there were
multiple stages to arrive at what is a tentative approval
for FSD.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean we heard rumblings that Musk was maybe
going to make this trip and you know, lo and behold,
you know, Sunday, my time here in London. You know,
we wake up to this idea that, yes, Musk has landed.
This was a surprise in the sense that Tesla you know,
doesn't even have a presence at this week's Beijing on show.
It's a show that got underway last week, but it
(05:02):
certainly was you know, a timely visit in the sense
that there are a lot of you know, government officials
in town for the show. You know, the auto industry
has absolutely been a bright spot for the Chinese economy,
and you know, China's relationship with Tesla has has been
really positive. This is you know, a success story, even
(05:23):
with the challenges that this company has had lately with
sort of continuing its momentum in.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
China marketshare being eroded to none of them byd the
local competitor. Remind us of the deals that have had
to be done with Chinese players though ultimately to be
able to get the granting.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
Yeah, the key one that that ED flagged is with Baidu.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
And I think this is really interesting because you know,
Elon Musk has been on the record for many years
now saying that Tesla doesn't need maps, that maps are
crutch and you know, so this this is you know,
a U turn if you will, if you and forgive
a car pun uh. You know from this stance that
this is not necessary in China. However, in order for
(06:07):
you to offer these sorts of systems, you need to
have a partnership with a mapping and navigation company. And
it just so happens that the companies that are able
to offer those service services are all Chinese.
Speaker 7 (06:20):
It's very reminiscent of how China sort of.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
Controlled the battery uh, you know, electric vehicle battery market
in you know, the more infant years of of the
EV industry for China, and it really was successful and
helping sort of build up, you know, world dominating companies
like c at l UH. They're looking to try and
replicate that sort of uh, you know pattern with you know,
(06:44):
companies that play a critical role in these driver assistance
systems that may one day be able to support, you know,
fully taking the human driver out of the equation.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
And what's so interesting is by do is itself quite
competent in the domain of at least developing autonomous technology. Look,
the stock's up twelve percent or more, on track for
his biggest jump since Janney twenty twenty two.
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Perceived good news.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
There is some more nuanced view in the markets about
what Musk's actually doing here, Craig, listen to this elon.
Speaker 8 (07:13):
Musk's on an opportunity to go in there and say, look,
I want to do this because you've seen the clashes
that have been going on between the US and China.
He's trying to put a foot on both sides and say, look,
I've got this technology. And he had the premium brand
in China, and then all of a sudden, the evs
in China started to get less expensive and Tesla started
to lose Sharon.
Speaker 7 (07:31):
He had to drop prices.
Speaker 8 (07:32):
So to me, this is a way to say I'm
going to change up this math for myself, but also
if I can be successful in this, then maybe I
get to be the outlier.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
That was Sarah Hunt, whose chief market strategies at Alpine
Saxon Woods earlier on Bloomberg Surveillance. We've got a very
strong piece on the terminal out now talking about how
we'll hold on. A week ago, Musk was supposed to
go to India and he bailed and he's gone straight
to China. That it shows us the power dynamics and
must skill in all of this, right, Craig in navigating geopolitics.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
Yeah, I mean there's been mutual backscratching here between Elon
Musk and the CCP for for years now. Let's not
forget that Tesla was the first you know, international car
company or foreign car company to you know, be allowed
to operate in China without having to agree to a
joint venture with a local manufacturer. There was a huge
(08:28):
you know wind for Musk and something that he fought
for for years. And you know, the the construction of
the plant for Tesla and Shanghai was you know, record time.
It was extremely time lee in the sense that you know,
Musk was really ramping up the model three trying to
bring the model why out and they were able to
(08:48):
keep that plant running even during you know, the pandemic,
when you know other plants in China had a really
difficult time, you know, opening back up from the initial shutdowns.
And so you know, China has very much supported Tesla
when Tesla needed it most. And you know, we're seeing
US companies pull back a little bit from China, maybe
(09:09):
at least de risk a little. You know, Apple's a
good example of doing so. You know, by the way,
in India, I think people were looking at at a
potential investment by Tesla in India as a similar move.
And it's clear that Musk doesn't see you know, urgency
to do that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Bloomber's cry too l thank you so much, terrific reporting.
There's another story very close to this one, Sticking with
autonomous driving, US auto safety regulators are investigating Ford's Blue
Cruise driver resistance feature after a pair of fatal crashes
involving the technology. The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's
Office of Defect Investigation opened the preliminary evaluation after it
(09:50):
received notice of two battery electric Mustang Maki SUVs that
collided with stationary vehicles. Will continue to track that one
stock down one point six percent car notable.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Meanwhile, coming up ed, Look, I've got to turn our
attention to another key stock on the move and paramount
is we understand the company weighing outstaying.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
Its own CEO.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
At least the board is ahead of earning tonight, but
also a notable potential purchase of this business.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
We'll bring you more this boombow technology.
Speaker 7 (10:34):
It's time for talking tech and first up.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal by Alon Musk
over his so called Twitter sitter, who oversees social media
posts about Tesla. The Justices, without comment, refused to hear
contentions from the Tesla CEO on the accord that he
assigned in twenty eighteen that he says now violates his
constitutional free speech rights. We'll track that one plus. Apple's
(10:59):
iPad has been hit by the EU's digital dominance crackdown.
The product's been added to a list of big tech
products and services hit by the new rules. The move
means Apple has six months to make sure its tablet
ecosystem complies with a raft of preemptive measures under the
EU's flagship Digital Markets Acts. And the Redstone family and
(11:19):
independent film producer David Ellison have both offered concessions to
make a possible change in control at Paramount Global more
appealing to the company's other investors. The Skydance bid was
described by multiple parties as a best and final offer
on Sunday. Paramount's board is still undecided about entering a
deal with Ellison, given the opposition from other investors.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Cara, Well, the board has got a lot to be
considering right now, we understand ed, and we want to
dig into all of it with the most Chris Peal
Mary who has been busy throughout the weekend, reporting in
this out, editing it out. And the board, we understand,
is also wondering whether it OSTs Bob Backish, the actual
current CEO of Paramount. Ahead of Well, we know earnings
are already coming out after the bell today amid this
(12:00):
sales process.
Speaker 9 (12:02):
Yeah, the situation was described to me yesterday is being
very fluid, which I think is an understatement. We're recently
certain the company will announced earnings this afternoon, but beyond that, yes,
they're expected to say goodbye to their CEO, Bob Beckish,
replacing him on an interim basis with a management committee.
(12:23):
They're still negotiating to deal with Skydance. It would be
a change of control of a company and that was
the best and final offer yesterday, with David Ellison, the
owner of Guidance, helping his sort of contribution in terms
of buying Paramount stock at a premium to what it's
trading out today, sort of apes of shareholders. Redstones also
(12:45):
are apparently making concessions that would allow the non voting
shareholders to weigh in on a deal, which is something
that you know they don't have to do, but is
sort of best practice in securities law these days.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
A whole lot going on.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
You've outlined the sort of mechanics of the deal. I
think just like reminder audience the rationale on the why
why are we still spooking about Paramount and somebody buying
it or changing it?
Speaker 7 (13:12):
What's going on?
Speaker 9 (13:14):
Well, the traditional TV business is in trouble. People are
leaving for streaming services. Advertising has been in decline, although
they'll see a pickup at Paramount this quarter because of
the super Bowl, and the streaming business, which is the future,
is still losing money. The Paramount still although the losses
are coming down a bit are still going to be
(13:37):
in the one hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 7 (13:39):
And it's a question whether they'll ever stop.
Speaker 9 (13:42):
And so when your two main businesses like that, the
movie business has been unprofitable last year, it's a challenge
to get people back to theaters. So pretty much every
leg of their business is in some sort of peril
and that's why this sock is down and why they're
considering options.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
All right, Bluebots, Chris Pam Mary terrific, really appreciate having
you out down from La.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So fine out with earnings that well look strong today,
but the forecast is what people are worrying about. The
shares falling after the fintech company provided second quarter nuance
here with adjusted net revenue and adjusted ebit DA that
perhaps fell short of some consensussessments out there. Want to
dig into that nuance with SOFI CEO Anthony Noto.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Thank you for joining us, Anthony, And.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Look, we've got to focus on the fact that your
full year guidance was raised.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
You're feeling positive.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
About the way in which are steering the company. You
say you're in an inflection point, But why the second
quarter being below expectations?
Speaker 5 (14:46):
What can you add to what you're seeing here right here,
right now.
Speaker 10 (14:49):
We had a great first quarter, as we reported twenty
six percent year of year at growth, and it's in
line with the transformation that we talked about, which is
our combined tech platform business and our financial service business
would grow fifty percent or more. It grew fifty four
percent year of year, and that combined with flat revenue
for lending, and that was part of the plan, and
we had our second consecutive quarter of gap positive EPs.
(15:13):
In addition to growing our book value on a tangible
basis per share by about sixteen percent sequentially, we also
guided the full year, as you mentioned above, not just
our beat, but also above our prior guidance, so that's
a positive overall outlook.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
We had not given Q two guidance before.
Speaker 10 (15:31):
We typically give the full year and then the current
quarter that we're in, so at the end of twenty
four we gave guidance for the full year and Q one,
not Q two. The analysts are using their own estimates
for that, and because we're taking a conservative view on lending,
lending will be down sequentially in Q two, while our
tech platform revenue and our financial services revenue will continue
(15:52):
to have strong year year growth, but also strong sequential
growth and continue profitability as well. So we feel really
great about the business transformation we've made over the last
six years. The fact that we can grow revenue twenty
six percent on flat lending revenue is a real testament
to the diversity of our business.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Hey, Darison, you can't feel great about the share reaction.
Speaker 10 (16:13):
You know, any given day, it's hard to predict what's
going to happen with the shriff. But what I can
say is the business is doing incredibly well. The strategy
is working. We're really happy about the trend we do.
We are taking a conservative you on lending, but that's
given how uncertain the environment is. If the environment becomes
more stable, we'll be more aggressive on lending, but right
(16:34):
now there's no need to and the environment remains as
uncertain as it has for the last six months.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
On rates, mister Noto, good morning, it's ed in San Francisco.
A lot of the questions I got from our audience
for you were about the capital you raise and your
strategy going forward. There was convertible in one queue, a
lot of interest in that. I actually am not clear why,
but the people want to know, So that's the question.
Speaker 10 (16:58):
Yeah, I think people misunder stand the share count. First,
we did two things in Q one. First, we issued
a convertible note at one point two five percent interest
that allowed us to redeem a preferred security that we're
paying twelve and a half percent interest on. So that
is going to provide an interest savings for us, and
we've already noticed all of the holders of that preferred
(17:20):
instrument and so that's being redeemed sooner than expected. We
also bought back an existing convert that was trading well
below its face value, and that was a creative to
book value and it was basically neutral on tangible book
value per share. So there's some perception that it was diluted.
It's not dilutied on a tangible book value per share.
And I think there's just a misunderstanding on what the
(17:42):
total ending share count will be in the future.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
My colleague, a Bloomberg intelligence Herman Chan has a very
clear thesis for you guys. You have a brilliant app,
strong user interface, one stop shop, and you're targeting young professionals.
Speaker 7 (17:57):
That's what they think.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
But the story really is this higher interest rates for
longer environment narrative. How does that thesis work in that
rate environment?
Speaker 10 (18:07):
Anthony, Yeah, well, first of all, your colleagues said it
very well, and so we should consider having them being
one of our spokespeople. But I'd say is higher for
longer is going to create challenges for financial institutions.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
We are very well capitalized.
Speaker 10 (18:20):
We have a seventeen point one percent risk based capital ratio,
so we have ample cushion or capital ratio relative to
where we have to operate from a regulatory standpoint, and
we have plenty of liquidity. That said, as we saw
today another regional bank was very challenged. We're also benefiting
from really strong deposit growth. We had our record growth
and deposits three billion dollars of new deposits, and ninety
(18:43):
percent of our deposits are from direct deposit customers, which
means we're their primary account and it's very very sticky.
But higher for longer we'll put stress on other people's
balance sheets if they're not hedging appropriately the way we do.
We hedge our loans once we grant them, we're we
don't have that interest rate exposure. We can also match
what we're giving in as an apy to our SOFI
(19:06):
money members against the loans that we're offering in the
rates that they have to maintain a very high NIM
and we've been able to do that consistently. In addition
to that, with also the tech platform business, which is
not tied to interest rates. And then in the financial
services business, we have the invest platform that's growing very nicely,
good AUM growth, good member growth, and another source of
(19:26):
verisfied revenue for.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
US where technology show.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
We want to go into the specifics of your technology, Anthony,
but I want to bring our audience that matcro flavor
that you so brilliantly give, because why are you more
cautious on the US economy? Why are you seeing five
percent excess of unemployment? Why are you seeing these interest
rate cuts that you've now basically halved in your expectations
for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 10 (19:49):
Yeah, our balance sheet has grown quite meaningfully. It's about
a thirty billion dollar bounce sheet now. So as we
came into twenty twenty four, we had a choice. Could
we come up with our own expectations for twenty twenty
could we use consensus expectation. Let's just take up planning
stance that's really conservative, and the planning stance that we
took then was that there would only be four rate cuts.
(20:10):
The market was factoring in six rate cuts at the time.
We also took up planning stance on unemployment that would
be more than five percent, the market was well below that,
and we also took a stance on GDP contraction.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That was modest.
Speaker 10 (20:22):
Well, here we sit today three months later, and the
market's only factoring in one to two rate cuts. So
I'm really thankful we took a conservative stance going into
the air, and I'm really thankful we still have a
conservative stance. I couldn't feel better about the underlying trends
of our strategy and execution of our business. But I
don't think we're an environment where anyone has a really strong,
high conviction level on where rates will be. There's still
(20:44):
a debate whether it be any rate cuts whatsoever. So
we just can't put the business at risk hoping that
we can figure it out.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So we're going to a conservative point of view.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
With short time, Anthony, you're moving away from this kind
of trademark student loans and refi business.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
Why, Well, the strategy when I came in twenty eighteen
was to create a one stop shop for all your
financial services needs. There was no one providing all the
products that you need for the big moments in your
life and all the days in between. So we offer
home loans, student loans, personal loans, in school loans, checking
and savings called SOFI Money Investing, Insurance, small meat, and
(21:24):
business loan lead generation in addition to the tech platform business.
So the strategy was always about building a one stop
shop for all your financial services needs, and that's actually
resulted in diversified business that allows us to make choices
on what we grow versus what we take.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
A conservative view.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
On SOFI CEO Anthony Notto, Great catch up, greats heavy
back on the program. Thank you, Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology.
I love Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
I'm Caroline hid in New York.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
A bit of breaking news that was just occurring regarding
we work.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
We understand it has managed to kind.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Of bankruptcy exit deal that actually leaves.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Out the founder, Adam Newman. Now we understand we work.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Of course, they've gotten all important meeting today in Pril
twenty ninth.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
They're cutting an exit deal leaves out Adam Newman.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Newman himself is objecting saying the deal wrongly hands Hides
a sale plan and Newman has offered to buy we Work,
but it was rejected in favor of a creditor deal.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
Now, remember there's plenty.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Of analysis that has gone into the bankruptcy of we
Work more broadly, and indeed the fact.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
That they've basically got a four billion dollar in secure.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Debt that is a key issue limiting issue here more broadly.
But it looks as though a deal has been cut,
but Adam Newman is not involved.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Let's just get a broader market check for you at
the moment, because.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Well, markets have been tentatively higher and aw's that one
hundred is still clinging on to gain some twenty seven
points all important.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Week the fared we got job Stata.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
At the end of the week, the dollar is still
lower US as Japanese and that was a big market move.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
From a macro perspective, is maybe we see some boj
intervention that has.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
So far remained silent from Japan, and it is indeed
some muted amid holiday trading session.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
But I'm looking at bitcoin.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Just off by a percentage point as a US dollar
remains higher versus bitcoin.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
That's how to look at.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
What's happening on individual names. I want to shine like
what happened in Europe because we've just finished up trading
in Europe and at US up eighteen percent. And this
is another kind of beleagued company, but this one is
a French government potentially stepping in with a bid for
the IT company's most strategically important businesses. That's after it's
been forced to raise the amount of cash it needs
to avoid insolvency itself. It's up more than eighteen percent. Sees,
(23:35):
I shine a light on what's happening with this particular
well overall company, the two firms we could see when
it comes to all important views on the coming together
of SES and intelsat this is we once again think
about a mergering these satellite businesses. The deal failed in
previous attempts to combine, but now we see that potentially
(23:56):
they could be seeing an SES and INTEL revival of
discussions with Dan some ten percent in that publicly traded
part of the business. Remember Intersect is private micro Strategy
up more than a percentage point. Well, he's doing all right,
Old Michael Saylor on the fact that he's been selling
some shares in the business after it's done particularly well
amid being sort of a proxy for bitcoin two hundred
and ninety six. The earnings come after the bell. But
(24:18):
we want to talk more about crypto, and we want
to talk more about what's happening in Hong Kong. But
it's set to list a batch of cryptocurrency ETFs, and
some China's top asset managers are in final lego preparations
for Spot bitcoin and EETF to begin trading tomorrow. Loomberg's
Katie Greifeld joins US for more. You're probably pretty bored
about Spot ETF and what's interesting with Hong Kong is
(24:38):
it looks as though we're also seeing Australia analyze the options.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
This is a theme since the US gone on board.
Speaker 11 (24:43):
It's definitely a theme, this sort of expanding access to
spark bitcoin ETFs. And it's interesting you take a look
at Hong Kong sort of following the US blueprint in
that we have a few war breaking out even before
the funds have actually launched. Their due to launch on
April thirtieth tomorrow, but we're talking about trio of issuers here.
We have China AMC, then we have Harvest and Bossera.
(25:04):
So you had China AMC and Harvest announced their fees,
and just in the past few days Bossara actually came
out and waved their fee. They were going their eventual
fee is going to be sixty basis points. They're waiving
that for the first four months or so.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
You compare that to Harvest.
Speaker 11 (25:18):
They're also going ahead with a fee waiver, which is
also very popular in the US. After six months, they're
going to charge point three percent. So that's your low
water mark there. And then China AMC it's on the
high side. It's charging ninety nine basis points, so a
bit expensive compared to its trio.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
It sort of peers there, but.
Speaker 11 (25:37):
We'll have to see what we saw in the US
market was even though you had those fees cut into
the launch. After the launch too, you had a lot
of reductions as well.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
On this program with Metenology, we love covering cities around
the world. Hong Kong is clearly considering this important. But
in actuality, it's a small market. You know, give us
the numbers.
Speaker 11 (25:59):
It is a that is a important perspective to get
in there. When you take a look at Hong Kong's
total ETF market, the total AUM is about forty seven
billion dollars. Just for some context, you take a look
at the suite of US spot bitcoin ETFs, they're already
above that.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
When you put together those.
Speaker 11 (26:16):
Dozen are so fun So on the world scale, we're
talking about a very small market here. When you think
about the impact to bitcoin, of course, probably not too
meaningful from an influence perspective, but when it comes to sentiment,
which is what powers bitcoin, it could be meaningful the most.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Katie Grofel, we love having you on the show with
your knowledge of spot bitcoin ETF around the world.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Let's go from crypto back to entertainment with paramounts board
considering removing CEO Bob Backish, I want to get the
take in the analysis of Bloomberg Intelligences Geeta Ang and
Athan and I'm looking at stock right we're up almost
five percent. I don't know if that's because of the
news or reports that Backish might be going or that
(26:59):
the deal as it is is moving along. What do
you think the catalyst is, Gita.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think ed the catalyst for the movement this morning
is really just based on the sweetening of the Ellison deals.
So two things happening here. One is that David Ellison,
who owns sky Dance Media, is now proposing to buy
a block of shares at a premium. Is kind of
making it more palatable for investors. And I think finally
(27:27):
Sharry Redstone, Sharry Redstone is the one who kind of
calls all the shots at paramount. She's finally open for
what is this majority of minority votes, So she is
letting the non voting shareholders have a say in whether
this transaction should go through. And that is really critical
because there has been so much backlash against the sky
Dance deal because most of these shareholders, the non voting shareholders,
(27:50):
have basically said that it's going to dilute them and
it really only benefits, you know, the sky Dance And
of course Cherry Redstone, one.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Of those key investors from a non vote perspective, have
been Arial Investments and John Rodgers and Melodie Hobson had
been putting out letters saying, look, we are worried about
the way in which this is being executed, the premium
and then the merge of what's happening with skydowns, but
also they were troubled by the looming departures of four
(28:18):
paramount board members. Is all of this looking a little
bit murky from a governance perspective if you're also seeing
a board and potentially getting rid of the CEO and
putting executives in charge while this transition sort of occurs.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I mean it's highly, highly unusual, Caroline. We've never
seen something quite like this before in the media landscape.
So you have those four, you know, board members who
kind of suddenly left, and then now you have Bob Bakish,
who has been the CEO of this company for quite
a while, I mean ever since Viacom and CBS were emerged.
He's kind of taken a charge and he's kind of,
(28:52):
I think, done a fairly good job, although some people
would would say that, you know, getting into the streaming
business was not good idea to begin with. And you
know that's because, yes, they have seventy million subscribers, they've
had some successes, but they've also lost a ton of money.
They've lost about five billion dollars and a lot of
people seem to think that, you know, that's because of
(29:12):
kind of this misstep or was a misstep by Bob
backersh So, yes, there's a lot of confusion right now. Basically,
definitely getting rid of Bob Backers definitely challenges the status quo.
But I think what Cherry Redstone is hoping to achieve
is then get you know, Bob Backers has been very
vocal against the deal with sky Dance, so I think
she's really kind of trying to hasten the process towards
(29:34):
a deal with sky Dance.
Speaker 12 (29:35):
Here.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Wow, it looks as though it is evolving very quickly
on the day, and I'm sure we'll be looking for
your expertise again doing by intelligence analyst Katha Rang and
Ath and me, thank you so much and all things paramount.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Mean while coming up, and we're going to take a
look at a new kind.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Of college call the eye a Founder's Fund. We're on
that and now a venture spotlight. This is really my technology.
Speaker 7 (30:09):
Campus.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Dot edu is an online alternative to traditional community colleges
that's trying to tackle all kinds of problems, one of
them being student loan debt in the United States, and
it caught the attention of Founder's Fund, which just led
a new twenty three million dollar extension round in the platform.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
Disclaimer.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Bloomberg Beta, the venture capital arm of Bloomberg LP is
also an investor in campus dot Edu. Here to discuss
is founder's fund partner Tray Stevens, who led the round,
and campus dot edu founder and chancellor. Today or Youurinda today,
I'm going to start with you. I actually have been
through the mechanics of how this works. You know, you
sign up, you may be eligible for federal funding grants,
(30:49):
but you basically pay seven to seven a half thousand
dollars for the course, and you're also bringing an employment
opportunity for very talented professors, which raises the question, why
do you need twenty three million more dollars?
Speaker 12 (31:02):
Yeah, thanks for having me. Look, I think if you
look at the faculty at these elite universities Princeton, UCLA,
and Stanford, a lot of them are looking for gigwork.
That's what we do at Campus is we allow them
to teach. We bring access to people who had never
had access to this quality of education before. And then, yes,
as you pointed out, the federal government does actually pay
(31:22):
for a lot of the tuition with the grants.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
One of the learnings from researching and reading into this
is that some of our brightest academics and teachers are
pretty poorly paid in this country. Trey, I know you,
I know where you invest thematically specific founders that you back.
This one's really interesting why you focused on education, but
this is a very specific case study in education.
Speaker 13 (31:45):
Yeah, well, I wouldn't say that we are focused on education.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
We don't do a whole lot at all and tech.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
That's what I founders figned.
Speaker 13 (31:51):
Yeah, Peter is kind of known as having this anti
higher education perspective in which led to the tor Fellowship,
which is the fellowship that he offers to students to
drop out of college and pursue something entrepreneurial. And so
I think what this really kind of hit that I
haven't seen a lot in ED tech is.
Speaker 7 (32:11):
This idea that we don't need to have.
Speaker 13 (32:13):
A bunch of students going into massive debt. The average
student in the United States that's going into higher ED
has debt over twenty thousand. I had debt over one
hundred thousand dollars coming out of college, and there's just
no reason for this. And so I think what today
and the team at campus is doing is really exciting
because it's a way of bridging that out to make
it possible for kids that want to go to school
(32:35):
after they finish high school and do that at much
lower costs and in exit their college experience without any
debt Tadai.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Therefore, we go back to the why the need of funds.
You've got clear demand coming from students, You've got clear
supply coming.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
From the professors.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Perhaps a bit of a bottleneck when it comes to
the coaches that you want to there be to be
mentoring and stimulating and advising.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
But where will the funds be put to work? Is
this about mark share capture right now?
Speaker 12 (33:02):
Yeah? Look, Caroline, the opportunity is just so big. If
you look at student loans in this country, it's perhaps
past two trillion dollars. So to actually solve this and
create a world class quality education and scale that up
to lots of people, it's going to require lots of investment.
And we give students a lot of wrap around support
that most community colleges just can't afford to offer. So
(33:22):
every student forgets a laptop. You know, about a third
of our students we do an internet speed test. If
your internet's too slow, will actually get you internet at home?
We pare them with success coaches who play the role
like my mother played for me. When I was in college,
like making sure I'm showing up for class on time
and getting my assignments in and that's a key part
of like what a lot of young people are going
to need to be successful today. So I'm very grateful
(33:43):
for Trey and you know, the team at Founders Fund,
because this is a big mission, but it's going to
require funding.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Yeah, Tree, why did you take the call or the
email or the introduction in whatever way if you had
not that focused on education, as you've clearly articulated, Why
this one when there are some other online competitors out there?
Speaker 7 (34:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (34:01):
The important thing for us, as it is with all companies,
is that we are founder base first and foremost, so
less than investing in categories or you know, specific types
of companies, We're really interested in investing in the top
founders that are doing the most interesting things, the most
novel concepts. And so when I originally met today, you know,
not generally being interested in ed tech, I was blown
(34:23):
away by his vision for what the company was going
to be doing, and ultimately just decided to bring other
people from the Fund in front of him, saying like
this guy is different than the other founders that we've
seen in the ed tech space. We should really be
open to learning from him and getting excited about the
thing that he has so much passion for.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Okay, so today you dropped a reference to the sort
of gig economy earlier in the conversation. So I'm thinking
uber or you know there are other gig economy platforms
out there to do food delivery, et cetera. How's that
business going to play out in practice? You know, Trey
investing founders, he backs those founders. He's also an investor
who needs to see a return in the future.
Speaker 12 (35:00):
Yeah, So look the way it works with campus. If
you're a professor at Princeton UCLA Moorhouse, you have your
your on campus job, has an office. You love it.
You get to meet with students. But oftentimes you're an
adjunct professor. I used to think adjuncts meant like Michelle
Obama teaches that Georgetown for fun to give.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
Back saying a guest or whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That's that's really rare.
Speaker 12 (35:20):
The most adjuncts are actually recent grad school graduates to
earning forty to forty five grand a year. That's what
we do is you can actually teach in addition to
your on campus job on campus campus dot edu and
we pay about double the national average wage, so it's
about eight thousand dollars per class. So just simplicity of math.
You know, four academic quarters a year. If you teach
(35:41):
three classes a quarter with us, you're making an additional
ninety six thousand dollars an annual income. And you're doing
it doing what you're great at and what you love doing,
teaching these students who are super ambitious, like super talented.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I want to focus on another found you back when
it comes to neurallink eil mask today he we led
the show with the fact that in his other company, Tesla,
he's deepening thaie with China. He's bringing his driver assistance
program over there to of course one of the key
markets for him. How do you sit at the moment
with founders, with just us more broadly seeing still some
relationship with China at the time that also you're seeing
(36:13):
some distancing.
Speaker 13 (36:16):
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely always a good reason to
have nuance. There's a lot of different stakes are that
need to be taken into consideration when you look at
interacting with the Chinese market versus interacting with the Chinese
government versus interacting with government control over things that are
(36:37):
impacting US consumers, And so I think obviously diplomacy is
critical in all these scenarios. Elon is doing what Elon
needs to do for the companies that he has operating
in country there.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
What about, well, TikTok being the other key piece of
news when it comes to how that affects the consumer,
a relationship of using what is a Chinese held business
here in the United States, a ban or diverst What did.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
You make of that? How worried are you.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
About the use of TikTok for at least another nine months?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I mean, I'm very concerned.
Speaker 13 (37:07):
I've been very public and expressing my concerns around the
use of TikTok domestically. You know, during the Cold War,
we never would have allowed for a Russian company to
buy The New York Times. I think having some sense
for adversary control of key pathways for information into our
into our populace is super critical. And TikTok has demonstrated
(37:28):
time and time again that they are not willing to
be transparent. They're not willing to share with us the
important information that we would need to know to have
a level of confidence and their ability to support those
technologies being deployed in the United States.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
We've got to think about the AI cut well, all
encompassing narrative here ed a little bit when we were
talking about Elon and Tesla, you referenced by do of
course big stakes and AI there we've also got TikTok
owned by byte Dance.
Speaker 5 (37:55):
That China's got its own interest in all of this
at the moment.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Ed for me, that's the story, right, that all the
stories we talk about, be it Tesla in China, TikTok,
China is working on these technologies itself, you know, particularly
in the context of generative AI or building large language models.
We spent twelve months saying, well, China is also doing this.
The question of someone like you and your industry is
(38:18):
how do you get the balance right between being collaborative
and also putting us interest first. That's basically what I
think it comes down to for you.
Speaker 7 (38:26):
Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 13 (38:27):
You know that the CCP is very different than the
Chinese people or the Chinese market. These things are not
always intrinsically connected. I think that the thing that we're
constantly trying to balance not only inside of our portfolio,
but also with what we're doing at ANDROL, which is
a portfolio company of founders fund that I started back
in twenty seventeen, you know, is to really figure out
(38:49):
where we need to not only develop but also sustained
strategic advantage so that we are able to set the
rules of engagement for how those technologies are like actually
in the field and the moment we no longer have
control of the technology, that's when we lose control of
the ability to regulate and you know, keep those technologies
(39:09):
inside the bounds of law.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
I'm glad you took us to andre and Defense Tech.
There have been several columnentches written about you and your
place and leadership in investing in defense technology. What I
want to ask you is, if you're seeing science that
the US government, the top level of government is now
sort of hand in hand with silicon value, that you
guys do it really well, So go and do it.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
I guess the.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Working with the government's really hard. I don't know how
else to say that. You know, before I.
Speaker 13 (39:38):
Joined found respond ten years ago, I was, you know,
doing sales at Palenteer, where I spent the prior six
years of my career. And you know, no matter what
we tried, it was like every single iteration of our
sales strategy was just you know, not working, going too slow,
running into roadblocks. Eventually we figured out a model that worked.
(39:58):
The same could be said for Space. It took them
years and years and years to figure out how to
do this. And the reality is like going into this
industry blind, like you know, two nineteen year olds working
in a garage. Very different than starting a software as
a service company.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
As doctor Carr put it to me, a few weeks
to go, end the PowerPoint No more Powerpoints founder fun
Trey Stevens. Great to have you back on the show, Caroc.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
It really was a great discussion.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
And that does it for this well wind edition of
Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Yeah, there is so much in the newsflow. It's a
huge earnings week. Great guests on the show, recap on
the podcast, Apple, Spotify, iHeart, and the Bloomberg platforms from
San Francisco and New York.
Speaker 7 (40:36):
This is Bloomberg Technology.
From Bahard.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We're Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.
This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Love Love.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Caroline Heindet Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York and.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
I made Love Low in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg
Technology coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Tesla gets some tentative approval for its driving system in China.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Details ahead plus paramount expected to oustit CEO ahead of
earning tonight, we'll bring you.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
The latest and so far shares they drop after Q
two guidance disappoints. We're going to discuss all of it
with the CEO, Anthony Noto. Well, first, let's checking on
these markets, because we're cautiously up on the nawstack at
the moment, up three tenths of a percent. We've got
a big week. You've got the FED, you've got the
all important claims, we've.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Got jobs data.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Friday, we're seeing the NASDAK still managing to be up
about forty eight points. Now we're seeing a ten year
yield actually diving back some four or five basis points.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Let's call it ahead of the all important Federal Reserve.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And indeed just where we see this economy, this interest
rate environment going notably a lot capturing the attention on
the macro perspective. What's happening in Japan at the moment. Look,
we've got a holiday period that means some of the
trading is going to be more muted in Japan, but
the yen some big volatility over the course of the
weekend Monday trading, We're down a percentage point on the
dollar of US as the end the yen goes higher.
(01:30):
Was it Japanese boj intervention? So far they remain mum
on the subject. We look forward to what's happening in
terms of another dollar related asset, this one Bitcoin down
versus the US dollar by about one and a quarter percent.
Now we're still seeing perhaps a little bit of a
risk off feel to bitcoin more generally and atf flows
for sixty eight hundred and fifty nine, and what are
you looking at on the micro the ed.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Well Tesla and Tesla is a big, almost surprise story
this Monday, the stock up twelve point four percent. It's
just a few tens percent away from its biggest jump
since January of twenty twenty two. Very similar gains to
what we saw April twenty fourth, the day after earnings,
the story prelim or tentative approval for full self driving
(02:13):
in China. That's according to a Bloomberg source. Two subsets
of that a partnership with Baidu on the InCAR mapping
specifically for the China market, and then also an agreement
over data and privacy or terms on data and privacy
that will allow it to move forward with FSD. Big
reaction in the market. Elon Musk himself went to China
(02:36):
over the weekend met with Premier Lee Chung, which was
itself a surprise seven days after he bailed on India.
And there's a lot to unpick in this one, but
it's a big move higher on the Tesla stock carract.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, we got to digame with none other than Craig
Shrudelle Bloomberg of course all over this story throughout the
day and indeed well previous night. It was a surprise,
and it looks as though the meeting bore fruit.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
What exactly does this mean for.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
The overall robotaxi autonomous vehicle kind of future that elm.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Pains, Yeah, we have to really separate out robotaxi and
what Tesla calls full self driving because that nomenclature has
been a misnomer. It is a driver assistance system. When
you activate it, you're in control of the vehicle, You're
responsible for supervising it.
Speaker 7 (03:23):
And if you do get into.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
A crash, Tesla has has shown a tendency to turn
around and blame you the driver. And so there's a
big difference between this system Tesla calls FSD and this
robotaxi that Musk has managed to get Wall Street excited about,
despite the fact that he's been talking about it as
a concept now, you know, since twenty sixteen at least.
(03:47):
But this is a big development in the sense that FSD,
for all its shortcomings and the progress that still needs
to be made for it to be you know, you know,
more widely used and accept it is bringing in incremental revenue,
but only in certain markets in the US. This is
something that Tesla charges eight thousand dollars for or ninety
(04:10):
nine dollars a month subscription. If it can you know,
make arrangements to get incremental revenue out of its customers
in China, it could boost its business there at a
time it could sorely use.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
A lift Craig is best. I can tell you've been
logged on your Blue Mog terminal for like twenty seven
hours straight, coordinating our teams in China, the US, in Europe.
Just to explain the chronology of what happened, there were
multiple stages to arrive at what is a tentative approval
for FSD.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Yeah, I mean we heard rumblings that Musk was maybe
going to make this trip and you know, lo and behold,
you know, Sunday, my time here in London. You know,
we wake up to this idea that, yes, Musk has landed.
This was a surprise in the sense that Tesla you know,
doesn't even have a presence at this week's Beijing on show.
It's a show that got underway last week, but it
(05:02):
certainly was you know, a timely visit in the sense
that there are a lot of you know, government officials
in town for the show. You know, the auto industry
has absolutely been a bright spot for the Chinese economy,
and you know, China's relationship with Tesla has has been
really positive. This is you know, a success story, even
(05:23):
with the challenges that this company has had lately with
sort of continuing its momentum in.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
China marketshare being eroded to none of them byd the
local competitor. Remind us of the deals that have had
to be done with Chinese players though ultimately to be
able to get the granting.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
Yeah, the key one that that ED flagged is with Baidu.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
And I think this is really interesting because you know,
Elon Musk has been on the record for many years
now saying that Tesla doesn't need maps, that maps are
crutch and you know, so this this is you know,
a U turn if you will, if you and forgive
a car pun uh. You know from this stance that
this is not necessary in China. However, in order for
(06:07):
you to offer these sorts of systems, you need to
have a partnership with a mapping and navigation company. And
it just so happens that the companies that are able
to offer those service services are all Chinese.
Speaker 7 (06:20):
It's very reminiscent of how China sort of.
Speaker 6 (06:24):
Controlled the battery uh, you know, electric vehicle battery market
in you know, the more infant years of of the
EV industry for China, and it really was successful and
helping sort of build up, you know, world dominating companies
like c at l UH. They're looking to try and
replicate that sort of uh, you know pattern with you know,
(06:44):
companies that play a critical role in these driver assistance
systems that may one day be able to support, you know,
fully taking the human driver out of the equation.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
And what's so interesting is by do is itself quite
competent in the domain of at least developing autonomous technology. Look,
the stock's up twelve percent or more, on track for
his biggest jump since Janney twenty twenty two.
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Perceived good news.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
There is some more nuanced view in the markets about
what Musk's actually doing here, Craig, listen to this elon.
Speaker 8 (07:13):
Musk's on an opportunity to go in there and say, look,
I want to do this because you've seen the clashes
that have been going on between the US and China.
He's trying to put a foot on both sides and say, look,
I've got this technology. And he had the premium brand
in China, and then all of a sudden, the evs
in China started to get less expensive and Tesla started
to lose Sharon.
Speaker 7 (07:31):
He had to drop prices.
Speaker 8 (07:32):
So to me, this is a way to say I'm
going to change up this math for myself, but also
if I can be successful in this, then maybe I
get to be the outlier.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
That was Sarah Hunt, whose chief market strategies at Alpine
Saxon Woods earlier on Bloomberg Surveillance. We've got a very
strong piece on the terminal out now talking about how
we'll hold on. A week ago, Musk was supposed to
go to India and he bailed and he's gone straight
to China. That it shows us the power dynamics and
must skill in all of this, right, Craig in navigating geopolitics.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
Yeah, I mean there's been mutual backscratching here between Elon
Musk and the CCP for for years now. Let's not
forget that Tesla was the first you know, international car
company or foreign car company to you know, be allowed
to operate in China without having to agree to a
joint venture with a local manufacturer. There was a huge
(08:28):
you know wind for Musk and something that he fought
for for years. And you know, the the construction of
the plant for Tesla and Shanghai was you know, record time.
It was extremely time lee in the sense that you know,
Musk was really ramping up the model three trying to
bring the model why out and they were able to
(08:48):
keep that plant running even during you know, the pandemic,
when you know other plants in China had a really
difficult time, you know, opening back up from the initial shutdowns.
And so you know, China has very much supported Tesla
when Tesla needed it most. And you know, we're seeing
US companies pull back a little bit from China, maybe
(09:09):
at least de risk a little. You know, Apple's a
good example of doing so. You know, by the way,
in India, I think people were looking at at a
potential investment by Tesla in India as a similar move.
And it's clear that Musk doesn't see you know, urgency
to do that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Bloomber's cry too l thank you so much, terrific reporting.
There's another story very close to this one, Sticking with
autonomous driving, US auto safety regulators are investigating Ford's Blue
Cruise driver resistance feature after a pair of fatal crashes
involving the technology. The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's
Office of Defect Investigation opened the preliminary evaluation after it
(09:50):
received notice of two battery electric Mustang Maki SUVs that
collided with stationary vehicles. Will continue to track that one
stock down one point six percent car notable.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Meanwhile, coming up ed, Look, I've got to turn our
attention to another key stock on the move and paramount
is we understand the company weighing outstaying.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
Its own CEO.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
At least the board is ahead of earning tonight, but
also a notable potential purchase of this business.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
We'll bring you more this boombow technology.
Speaker 7 (10:34):
It's time for talking tech and first up.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal by Alon Musk
over his so called Twitter sitter, who oversees social media
posts about Tesla. The Justices, without comment, refused to hear
contentions from the Tesla CEO on the accord that he
assigned in twenty eighteen that he says now violates his
constitutional free speech rights. We'll track that one plus. Apple's
(10:59):
iPad has been hit by the EU's digital dominance crackdown.
The product's been added to a list of big tech
products and services hit by the new rules. The move
means Apple has six months to make sure its tablet
ecosystem complies with a raft of preemptive measures under the
EU's flagship Digital Markets Acts. And the Redstone family and
(11:19):
independent film producer David Ellison have both offered concessions to
make a possible change in control at Paramount Global more
appealing to the company's other investors. The Skydance bid was
described by multiple parties as a best and final offer
on Sunday. Paramount's board is still undecided about entering a
deal with Ellison, given the opposition from other investors.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Cara, Well, the board has got a lot to be
considering right now, we understand ed, and we want to
dig into all of it with the most Chris Peal
Mary who has been busy throughout the weekend, reporting in
this out, editing it out. And the board, we understand,
is also wondering whether it OSTs Bob Backish, the actual
current CEO of Paramount. Ahead of Well, we know earnings
are already coming out after the bell today amid this
(12:00):
sales process.
Speaker 9 (12:02):
Yeah, the situation was described to me yesterday is being
very fluid, which I think is an understatement. We're recently
certain the company will announced earnings this afternoon, but beyond that, yes,
they're expected to say goodbye to their CEO, Bob Beckish,
replacing him on an interim basis with a management committee.
(12:23):
They're still negotiating to deal with Skydance. It would be
a change of control of a company and that was
the best and final offer yesterday, with David Ellison, the
owner of Guidance, helping his sort of contribution in terms
of buying Paramount stock at a premium to what it's
trading out today, sort of apes of shareholders. Redstones also
(12:45):
are apparently making concessions that would allow the non voting
shareholders to weigh in on a deal, which is something
that you know they don't have to do, but is
sort of best practice in securities law these days.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
A whole lot going on.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
You've outlined the sort of mechanics of the deal. I
think just like reminder audience the rationale on the why
why are we still spooking about Paramount and somebody buying
it or changing it?
Speaker 7 (13:12):
What's going on?
Speaker 9 (13:14):
Well, the traditional TV business is in trouble. People are
leaving for streaming services. Advertising has been in decline, although
they'll see a pickup at Paramount this quarter because of
the super Bowl, and the streaming business, which is the future,
is still losing money. The Paramount still although the losses
are coming down a bit are still going to be
(13:37):
in the one hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 7 (13:39):
And it's a question whether they'll ever stop.
Speaker 9 (13:42):
And so when your two main businesses like that, the
movie business has been unprofitable last year, it's a challenge
to get people back to theaters. So pretty much every
leg of their business is in some sort of peril
and that's why this sock is down and why they're
considering options.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
All right, Bluebots, Chris Pam Mary terrific, really appreciate having
you out down from La.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
So fine out with earnings that well look strong today,
but the forecast is what people are worrying about. The
shares falling after the fintech company provided second quarter nuance
here with adjusted net revenue and adjusted ebit DA that
perhaps fell short of some consensussessments out there. Want to
dig into that nuance with SOFI CEO Anthony Noto.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Thank you for joining us, Anthony, And.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Look, we've got to focus on the fact that your
full year guidance was raised.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
You're feeling positive.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
About the way in which are steering the company. You
say you're in an inflection point, But why the second
quarter being below expectations?
Speaker 5 (14:46):
What can you add to what you're seeing here right here,
right now.
Speaker 10 (14:49):
We had a great first quarter, as we reported twenty
six percent year of year at growth, and it's in
line with the transformation that we talked about, which is
our combined tech platform business and our financial service business
would grow fifty percent or more. It grew fifty four
percent year of year, and that combined with flat revenue
for lending, and that was part of the plan, and
we had our second consecutive quarter of gap positive EPs.
(15:13):
In addition to growing our book value on a tangible
basis per share by about sixteen percent sequentially, we also
guided the full year, as you mentioned above, not just
our beat, but also above our prior guidance, so that's
a positive overall outlook.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
We had not given Q two guidance before.
Speaker 10 (15:31):
We typically give the full year and then the current
quarter that we're in, so at the end of twenty
four we gave guidance for the full year and Q one,
not Q two. The analysts are using their own estimates
for that, and because we're taking a conservative view on lending,
lending will be down sequentially in Q two, while our
tech platform revenue and our financial services revenue will continue
(15:52):
to have strong year year growth, but also strong sequential
growth and continue profitability as well. So we feel really
great about the business transformation we've made over the last
six years. The fact that we can grow revenue twenty
six percent on flat lending revenue is a real testament
to the diversity of our business.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Hey, Darison, you can't feel great about the share reaction.
Speaker 10 (16:13):
You know, any given day, it's hard to predict what's
going to happen with the shriff. But what I can
say is the business is doing incredibly well. The strategy
is working. We're really happy about the trend we do.
We are taking a conservative you on lending, but that's
given how uncertain the environment is. If the environment becomes
more stable, we'll be more aggressive on lending, but right
(16:34):
now there's no need to and the environment remains as
uncertain as it has for the last six months.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
On rates, mister Noto, good morning, it's ed in San Francisco.
A lot of the questions I got from our audience
for you were about the capital you raise and your
strategy going forward. There was convertible in one queue, a
lot of interest in that. I actually am not clear why,
but the people want to know, So that's the question.
Speaker 10 (16:58):
Yeah, I think people misunder stand the share count. First,
we did two things in Q one. First, we issued
a convertible note at one point two five percent interest
that allowed us to redeem a preferred security that we're
paying twelve and a half percent interest on. So that
is going to provide an interest savings for us, and
we've already noticed all of the holders of that preferred
(17:20):
instrument and so that's being redeemed sooner than expected. We
also bought back an existing convert that was trading well
below its face value, and that was a creative to
book value and it was basically neutral on tangible book
value per share. So there's some perception that it was diluted.
It's not dilutied on a tangible book value per share.
And I think there's just a misunderstanding on what the
(17:42):
total ending share count will be in the future.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
My colleague, a Bloomberg intelligence Herman Chan has a very
clear thesis for you guys. You have a brilliant app,
strong user interface, one stop shop, and you're targeting young professionals.
Speaker 7 (17:57):
That's what they think.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
But the story really is this higher interest rates for
longer environment narrative. How does that thesis work in that
rate environment?
Speaker 10 (18:07):
Anthony, Yeah, well, first of all, your colleagues said it
very well, and so we should consider having them being
one of our spokespeople. But I'd say is higher for
longer is going to create challenges for financial institutions.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
We are very well capitalized.
Speaker 10 (18:20):
We have a seventeen point one percent risk based capital ratio,
so we have ample cushion or capital ratio relative to
where we have to operate from a regulatory standpoint, and
we have plenty of liquidity. That said, as we saw
today another regional bank was very challenged. We're also benefiting
from really strong deposit growth. We had our record growth
and deposits three billion dollars of new deposits, and ninety
(18:43):
percent of our deposits are from direct deposit customers, which
means we're their primary account and it's very very sticky.
But higher for longer we'll put stress on other people's
balance sheets if they're not hedging appropriately the way we do.
We hedge our loans once we grant them, we're we
don't have that interest rate exposure. We can also match
what we're giving in as an apy to our SOFI
(19:06):
money members against the loans that we're offering in the
rates that they have to maintain a very high NIM
and we've been able to do that consistently. In addition
to that, with also the tech platform business, which is
not tied to interest rates. And then in the financial
services business, we have the invest platform that's growing very nicely,
good AUM growth, good member growth, and another source of
(19:26):
verisfied revenue for.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
US where technology show.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
We want to go into the specifics of your technology, Anthony,
but I want to bring our audience that matcro flavor
that you so brilliantly give, because why are you more
cautious on the US economy? Why are you seeing five
percent excess of unemployment? Why are you seeing these interest
rate cuts that you've now basically halved in your expectations
for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 10 (19:49):
Yeah, our balance sheet has grown quite meaningfully. It's about
a thirty billion dollar bounce sheet now. So as we
came into twenty twenty four, we had a choice. Could
we come up with our own expectations for twenty twenty
could we use consensus expectation. Let's just take up planning
stance that's really conservative, and the planning stance that we
took then was that there would only be four rate cuts.
(20:10):
The market was factoring in six rate cuts at the time.
We also took up planning stance on unemployment that would
be more than five percent, the market was well below that,
and we also took a stance on GDP contraction.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That was modest.
Speaker 10 (20:22):
Well, here we sit today three months later, and the
market's only factoring in one to two rate cuts. So
I'm really thankful we took a conservative stance going into
the air, and I'm really thankful we still have a
conservative stance. I couldn't feel better about the underlying trends
of our strategy and execution of our business. But I
don't think we're an environment where anyone has a really strong,
high conviction level on where rates will be. There's still
(20:44):
a debate whether it be any rate cuts whatsoever. So
we just can't put the business at risk hoping that
we can figure it out.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So we're going to a conservative point of view.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
With short time, Anthony, you're moving away from this kind
of trademark student loans and refi business.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
Why, Well, the strategy when I came in twenty eighteen
was to create a one stop shop for all your
financial services needs. There was no one providing all the
products that you need for the big moments in your
life and all the days in between. So we offer
home loans, student loans, personal loans, in school loans, checking
and savings called SOFI Money Investing, Insurance, small meat, and
(21:24):
business loan lead generation in addition to the tech platform business.
So the strategy was always about building a one stop
shop for all your financial services needs, and that's actually
resulted in diversified business that allows us to make choices
on what we grow versus what we take.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
A conservative view.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
On SOFI CEO Anthony Notto, Great catch up, greats heavy
back on the program. Thank you, Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology.
I love Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
I'm Caroline hid in New York.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
A bit of breaking news that was just occurring regarding
we work.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
We understand it has managed to kind.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Of bankruptcy exit deal that actually leaves.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Out the founder, Adam Newman. Now we understand we work.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Of course, they've gotten all important meeting today in Pril
twenty ninth.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
They're cutting an exit deal leaves out Adam Newman.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Newman himself is objecting saying the deal wrongly hands Hides
a sale plan and Newman has offered to buy we Work,
but it was rejected in favor of a creditor deal.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
Now, remember there's plenty.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Of analysis that has gone into the bankruptcy of we
Work more broadly, and indeed the fact.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
That they've basically got a four billion dollar in secure.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Debt that is a key issue limiting issue here more broadly.
But it looks as though a deal has been cut,
but Adam Newman is not involved.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Let's just get a broader market check for you at
the moment, because.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Well, markets have been tentatively higher and aw's that one
hundred is still clinging on to gain some twenty seven
points all important.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
Week the fared we got job Stata.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
At the end of the week, the dollar is still
lower US as Japanese and that was a big market move.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
From a macro perspective, is maybe we see some boj
intervention that has.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
So far remained silent from Japan, and it is indeed
some muted amid holiday trading session.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
But I'm looking at bitcoin.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Just off by a percentage point as a US dollar
remains higher versus bitcoin.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
That's how to look at.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
What's happening on individual names. I want to shine like
what happened in Europe because we've just finished up trading
in Europe and at US up eighteen percent. And this
is another kind of beleagued company, but this one is
a French government potentially stepping in with a bid for
the IT company's most strategically important businesses. That's after it's
been forced to raise the amount of cash it needs
to avoid insolvency itself. It's up more than eighteen percent. Sees,
(23:35):
I shine a light on what's happening with this particular
well overall company, the two firms we could see when
it comes to all important views on the coming together
of SES and intelsat this is we once again think
about a mergering these satellite businesses. The deal failed in
previous attempts to combine, but now we see that potentially
(23:56):
they could be seeing an SES and INTEL revival of
discussions with Dan some ten percent in that publicly traded
part of the business. Remember Intersect is private micro Strategy
up more than a percentage point. Well, he's doing all right,
Old Michael Saylor on the fact that he's been selling
some shares in the business after it's done particularly well
amid being sort of a proxy for bitcoin two hundred
and ninety six. The earnings come after the bell. But
(24:18):
we want to talk more about crypto, and we want
to talk more about what's happening in Hong Kong. But
it's set to list a batch of cryptocurrency ETFs, and
some China's top asset managers are in final lego preparations
for Spot bitcoin and EETF to begin trading tomorrow. Loomberg's
Katie Greifeld joins US for more. You're probably pretty bored
about Spot ETF and what's interesting with Hong Kong is
(24:38):
it looks as though we're also seeing Australia analyze the options.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
This is a theme since the US gone on board.
Speaker 11 (24:43):
It's definitely a theme, this sort of expanding access to
spark bitcoin ETFs. And it's interesting you take a look
at Hong Kong sort of following the US blueprint in
that we have a few war breaking out even before
the funds have actually launched. Their due to launch on
April thirtieth tomorrow, but we're talking about trio of issuers here.
We have China AMC, then we have Harvest and Bossera.
(25:04):
So you had China AMC and Harvest announced their fees,
and just in the past few days Bossara actually came
out and waved their fee. They were going their eventual
fee is going to be sixty basis points. They're waiving
that for the first four months or so.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
You compare that to Harvest.
Speaker 11 (25:18):
They're also going ahead with a fee waiver, which is
also very popular in the US. After six months, they're
going to charge point three percent. So that's your low
water mark there. And then China AMC it's on the
high side. It's charging ninety nine basis points, so a
bit expensive compared to its trio.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
It sort of peers there, but.
Speaker 11 (25:37):
We'll have to see what we saw in the US
market was even though you had those fees cut into
the launch. After the launch too, you had a lot
of reductions as well.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
On this program with Metenology, we love covering cities around
the world. Hong Kong is clearly considering this important. But
in actuality, it's a small market. You know, give us
the numbers.
Speaker 11 (25:59):
It is a that is a important perspective to get
in there. When you take a look at Hong Kong's
total ETF market, the total AUM is about forty seven
billion dollars. Just for some context, you take a look
at the suite of US spot bitcoin ETFs, they're already
above that.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
When you put together those.
Speaker 11 (26:16):
Dozen are so fun So on the world scale, we're
talking about a very small market here. When you think
about the impact to bitcoin, of course, probably not too
meaningful from an influence perspective, but when it comes to sentiment,
which is what powers bitcoin, it could be meaningful the most.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Katie Grofel, we love having you on the show with
your knowledge of spot bitcoin ETF around the world.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Let's go from crypto back to entertainment with paramounts board
considering removing CEO Bob Backish, I want to get the
take in the analysis of Bloomberg Intelligences Geeta Ang and
Athan and I'm looking at stock right we're up almost
five percent. I don't know if that's because of the
news or reports that Backish might be going or that
(26:59):
the deal as it is is moving along. What do
you think the catalyst is, Gita.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think ed the catalyst for the movement this morning
is really just based on the sweetening of the Ellison deals.
So two things happening here. One is that David Ellison,
who owns sky Dance Media, is now proposing to buy
a block of shares at a premium. Is kind of
making it more palatable for investors. And I think finally
(27:27):
Sharry Redstone, Sharry Redstone is the one who kind of
calls all the shots at paramount. She's finally open for
what is this majority of minority votes, So she is
letting the non voting shareholders have a say in whether
this transaction should go through. And that is really critical
because there has been so much backlash against the sky
Dance deal because most of these shareholders, the non voting shareholders,
(27:50):
have basically said that it's going to dilute them and
it really only benefits, you know, the sky Dance And
of course Cherry Redstone, one.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Of those key investors from a non vote perspective, have
been Arial Investments and John Rodgers and Melodie Hobson had
been putting out letters saying, look, we are worried about
the way in which this is being executed, the premium
and then the merge of what's happening with skydowns, but
also they were troubled by the looming departures of four
(28:18):
paramount board members. Is all of this looking a little
bit murky from a governance perspective if you're also seeing
a board and potentially getting rid of the CEO and
putting executives in charge while this transition sort of occurs.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I mean it's highly, highly unusual, Caroline. We've never
seen something quite like this before in the media landscape.
So you have those four, you know, board members who
kind of suddenly left, and then now you have Bob Bakish,
who has been the CEO of this company for quite
a while, I mean ever since Viacom and CBS were emerged.
He's kind of taken a charge and he's kind of,
(28:52):
I think, done a fairly good job, although some people
would would say that, you know, getting into the streaming
business was not good idea to begin with. And you
know that's because, yes, they have seventy million subscribers, they've
had some successes, but they've also lost a ton of money.
They've lost about five billion dollars and a lot of
people seem to think that, you know, that's because of
(29:12):
kind of this misstep or was a misstep by Bob
backersh So, yes, there's a lot of confusion right now. Basically,
definitely getting rid of Bob Backers definitely challenges the status quo.
But I think what Cherry Redstone is hoping to achieve
is then get you know, Bob Backers has been very
vocal against the deal with sky Dance, so I think
she's really kind of trying to hasten the process towards
(29:34):
a deal with sky Dance.
Speaker 12 (29:35):
Here.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Wow, it looks as though it is evolving very quickly
on the day, and I'm sure we'll be looking for
your expertise again doing by intelligence analyst Katha Rang and
Ath and me, thank you so much and all things paramount.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Mean while coming up, and we're going to take a
look at a new kind.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Of college call the eye a Founder's Fund. We're on
that and now a venture spotlight. This is really my technology.
Speaker 7 (30:09):
Campus.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Dot edu is an online alternative to traditional community colleges
that's trying to tackle all kinds of problems, one of
them being student loan debt in the United States, and
it caught the attention of Founder's Fund, which just led
a new twenty three million dollar extension round in the platform.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
Disclaimer.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Bloomberg Beta, the venture capital arm of Bloomberg LP is
also an investor in campus dot Edu. Here to discuss
is founder's fund partner Tray Stevens, who led the round,
and campus dot edu founder and chancellor. Today or Youurinda today,
I'm going to start with you. I actually have been
through the mechanics of how this works. You know, you
sign up, you may be eligible for federal funding grants,
(30:49):
but you basically pay seven to seven a half thousand
dollars for the course, and you're also bringing an employment
opportunity for very talented professors, which raises the question, why
do you need twenty three million more dollars?
Speaker 12 (31:02):
Yeah, thanks for having me. Look, I think if you
look at the faculty at these elite universities Princeton, UCLA,
and Stanford, a lot of them are looking for gigwork.
That's what we do at Campus is we allow them
to teach. We bring access to people who had never
had access to this quality of education before. And then, yes,
as you pointed out, the federal government does actually pay
(31:22):
for a lot of the tuition with the grants.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
One of the learnings from researching and reading into this
is that some of our brightest academics and teachers are
pretty poorly paid in this country. Trey, I know you,
I know where you invest thematically specific founders that you back.
This one's really interesting why you focused on education, but
this is a very specific case study in education.
Speaker 13 (31:45):
Yeah, well, I wouldn't say that we are focused on education.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
We don't do a whole lot at all and tech.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
That's what I founders figned.
Speaker 13 (31:51):
Yeah, Peter is kind of known as having this anti
higher education perspective in which led to the tor Fellowship,
which is the fellowship that he offers to students to
drop out of college and pursue something entrepreneurial. And so
I think what this really kind of hit that I
haven't seen a lot in ED tech is.
Speaker 7 (32:11):
This idea that we don't need to have.
Speaker 13 (32:13):
A bunch of students going into massive debt. The average
student in the United States that's going into higher ED
has debt over twenty thousand. I had debt over one
hundred thousand dollars coming out of college, and there's just
no reason for this. And so I think what today
and the team at campus is doing is really exciting
because it's a way of bridging that out to make
it possible for kids that want to go to school
(32:35):
after they finish high school and do that at much
lower costs and in exit their college experience without any
debt Tadai.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Therefore, we go back to the why the need of funds.
You've got clear demand coming from students, You've got clear
supply coming.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
From the professors.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Perhaps a bit of a bottleneck when it comes to
the coaches that you want to there be to be
mentoring and stimulating and advising.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
But where will the funds be put to work? Is
this about mark share capture right now?
Speaker 12 (33:02):
Yeah? Look, Caroline, the opportunity is just so big. If
you look at student loans in this country, it's perhaps
past two trillion dollars. So to actually solve this and
create a world class quality education and scale that up
to lots of people, it's going to require lots of investment.
And we give students a lot of wrap around support
that most community colleges just can't afford to offer. So
(33:22):
every student forgets a laptop. You know, about a third
of our students we do an internet speed test. If
your internet's too slow, will actually get you internet at home?
We pare them with success coaches who play the role
like my mother played for me. When I was in college,
like making sure I'm showing up for class on time
and getting my assignments in and that's a key part
of like what a lot of young people are going
to need to be successful today. So I'm very grateful
(33:43):
for Trey and you know, the team at Founders Fund,
because this is a big mission, but it's going to
require funding.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Yeah, Tree, why did you take the call or the
email or the introduction in whatever way if you had
not that focused on education, as you've clearly articulated, Why
this one when there are some other online competitors out there?
Speaker 7 (34:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (34:01):
The important thing for us, as it is with all companies,
is that we are founder base first and foremost, so
less than investing in categories or you know, specific types
of companies, We're really interested in investing in the top
founders that are doing the most interesting things, the most
novel concepts. And so when I originally met today, you know,
not generally being interested in ed tech, I was blown
(34:23):
away by his vision for what the company was going
to be doing, and ultimately just decided to bring other
people from the Fund in front of him, saying like
this guy is different than the other founders that we've
seen in the ed tech space. We should really be
open to learning from him and getting excited about the
thing that he has so much passion for.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Okay, so today you dropped a reference to the sort
of gig economy earlier in the conversation. So I'm thinking
uber or you know there are other gig economy platforms
out there to do food delivery, et cetera. How's that
business going to play out in practice? You know, Trey
investing founders, he backs those founders. He's also an investor
who needs to see a return in the future.
Speaker 12 (35:00):
Yeah, So look the way it works with campus. If
you're a professor at Princeton UCLA Moorhouse, you have your
your on campus job, has an office. You love it.
You get to meet with students. But oftentimes you're an
adjunct professor. I used to think adjuncts meant like Michelle
Obama teaches that Georgetown for fun to give.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
Back saying a guest or whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
That's that's really rare.
Speaker 12 (35:20):
The most adjuncts are actually recent grad school graduates to
earning forty to forty five grand a year. That's what
we do is you can actually teach in addition to
your on campus job on campus campus dot edu and
we pay about double the national average wage, so it's
about eight thousand dollars per class. So just simplicity of math.
You know, four academic quarters a year. If you teach
(35:41):
three classes a quarter with us, you're making an additional
ninety six thousand dollars an annual income. And you're doing
it doing what you're great at and what you love doing,
teaching these students who are super ambitious, like super talented.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I want to focus on another found you back when
it comes to neurallink eil mask today he we led
the show with the fact that in his other company, Tesla,
he's deepening thaie with China. He's bringing his driver assistance
program over there to of course one of the key
markets for him. How do you sit at the moment
with founders, with just us more broadly seeing still some
relationship with China at the time that also you're seeing
(36:13):
some distancing.
Speaker 13 (36:16):
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely always a good reason to
have nuance. There's a lot of different stakes are that
need to be taken into consideration when you look at
interacting with the Chinese market versus interacting with the Chinese
government versus interacting with government control over things that are
(36:37):
impacting US consumers, And so I think obviously diplomacy is
critical in all these scenarios. Elon is doing what Elon
needs to do for the companies that he has operating
in country there.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
What about, well, TikTok being the other key piece of
news when it comes to how that affects the consumer,
a relationship of using what is a Chinese held business
here in the United States, a ban or diverst What did.
Speaker 5 (36:59):
You make of that? How worried are you.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
About the use of TikTok for at least another nine months?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I mean, I'm very concerned.
Speaker 13 (37:07):
I've been very public and expressing my concerns around the
use of TikTok domestically. You know, during the Cold War,
we never would have allowed for a Russian company to
buy The New York Times. I think having some sense
for adversary control of key pathways for information into our
into our populace is super critical. And TikTok has demonstrated
(37:28):
time and time again that they are not willing to
be transparent. They're not willing to share with us the
important information that we would need to know to have
a level of confidence and their ability to support those
technologies being deployed in the United States.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
We've got to think about the AI cut well, all
encompassing narrative here ed a little bit when we were
talking about Elon and Tesla, you referenced by do of
course big stakes and AI there we've also got TikTok
owned by byte Dance.
Speaker 5 (37:55):
That China's got its own interest in all of this
at the moment.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Ed for me, that's the story, right, that all the
stories we talk about, be it Tesla in China, TikTok,
China is working on these technologies itself, you know, particularly
in the context of generative AI or building large language models.
We spent twelve months saying, well, China is also doing this.
The question of someone like you and your industry is
(38:18):
how do you get the balance right between being collaborative
and also putting us interest first. That's basically what I
think it comes down to for you.
Speaker 7 (38:26):
Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 13 (38:27):
You know that the CCP is very different than the
Chinese people or the Chinese market. These things are not
always intrinsically connected. I think that the thing that we're
constantly trying to balance not only inside of our portfolio,
but also with what we're doing at ANDROL, which is
a portfolio company of founders fund that I started back
in twenty seventeen, you know, is to really figure out
(38:49):
where we need to not only develop but also sustained
strategic advantage so that we are able to set the
rules of engagement for how those technologies are like actually
in the field and the moment we no longer have
control of the technology, that's when we lose control of
the ability to regulate and you know, keep those technologies
(39:09):
inside the bounds of law.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
I'm glad you took us to andre and Defense Tech.
There have been several columnentches written about you and your
place and leadership in investing in defense technology. What I
want to ask you is, if you're seeing science that
the US government, the top level of government is now
sort of hand in hand with silicon value, that you
guys do it really well, So go and do it.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
I guess the.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Working with the government's really hard. I don't know how
else to say that. You know, before I.
Speaker 13 (39:38):
Joined found respond ten years ago, I was, you know,
doing sales at Palenteer, where I spent the prior six
years of my career. And you know, no matter what
we tried, it was like every single iteration of our
sales strategy was just you know, not working, going too slow,
running into roadblocks. Eventually we figured out a model that worked.
(39:58):
The same could be said for Space. It took them
years and years and years to figure out how to
do this. And the reality is like going into this
industry blind, like you know, two nineteen year olds working
in a garage. Very different than starting a software as
a service company.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
As doctor Carr put it to me, a few weeks
to go, end the PowerPoint No more Powerpoints founder fun
Trey Stevens. Great to have you back on the show, Caroc.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
It really was a great discussion.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
And that does it for this well wind edition of
Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Yeah, there is so much in the newsflow. It's a
huge earnings week. Great guests on the show, recap on
the podcast, Apple, Spotify, iHeart, and the Bloomberg platforms from
San Francisco and New York.
Speaker 7 (40:36):
This is Bloomberg Technology.
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