In this episode of the LEGENDS Podcast by All Day Vinyl, our host Scott Dudelson speaks with a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee, country rock pioneer and co-founder of Buffalo Springfield & Poco - Richie Furay.
Furay describes his extraordinary musical journey which has spanned over four decades and his intriguing transition from a rock star to a pastor, and an in-depth recollection of his time with The Buffalo Springfield and Poco.
This episode offers a unique ride through music history as Richie Furay discusses the days before Buffalo Springfield's meeting & playing with Stephen Stills in a small apartment, meeting Neil Young on Sunset Strip and recollections of the early days of the band, through the making of Buffalo Springfield Again. Furay talks about the songs he sings written by and about Neil Young, the unique curiosities and co-writes that make up the album "Last Time Around," (Hard to Wait, The Hour of Not Quite Rain), the infamous police raid in 1968 that found Neil Young, Eric Clapton and Richie hauled to a Los Angeles jail, the first meeting with Rusty Young, the exit of Randy Meisner from Poco, Furay's relationship with Gram Parsons and later transition to ministering.
Fans of Buffalo Springfield and Poco will find this episode particularly engaging and will shed further insights onto the music that you already love.
Be sure to check out other episodes of LEGENDS: Podcast by All Day Vinyl for more interviews with legendary musicians.
Editors Note: Interview conducted March 2024
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank you for listening. This is the Legends Podcast by All Day Vinyl.
I'm your host, Scott Dettelson.
After you finish this episode, please subscribe, rate, and check us out on Instagram
and YouTube at All Day Vinyl.
Today, I'm excited to speak with a legend and induct him into the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame and a country rock pioneer.
My guest is a founding member of two legendary bands, Buffalo Springfield,
which he founded with Neil Young and Stephen Stills, and Poco,
(00:22):
which he founded with Jim Messina and Rusty Young.
Over the last 40 years, this gentleman has released solo albums while simultaneously
serving as a pastor at the Calvary Chapel in Broomfield, Colorado,
retiring from ministering just a few years ago.
In 2022, he released a fantastic album called In the Country and is the subject
of an upcoming documentary about his life.
I'm pleased to introduce to you the great Richie Fure. Richie,
(00:45):
thank you so much for joining.
Scott, my pleasure, man. Good to talk to you. Thank you, Brian.
I appreciate it. So let's start with the present, working our way back.
I've got got a lot of questions for you, but I was very excited to see that
there's a documentary that's been in the works about your life.
And I was wondering if there's any update when we might be able to see that
and tell me a little more about the genesis of it.
(01:08):
Well, I just had a sizzler sent to me that's going to be sent out to places
like Sundance and Netflix to just see, you know, if somebody will pick it up.
It came about by my friends, David Stone and Denny Klein, who really thought
my life story was something unique enough to want to document.
I would have had no thoughts in the world to do it, but they sure did.
(01:29):
And we started it and with everything else, COVID gotten away and kind of slowed
things down, but it is in the final stages right now.
We were really excited to have Cameron Crowe do the voiceovers on it.
And I was Cameron's first first interview years and years and years and years, well, many years ago.
And it was funny how we reconnected to get all this started.
(01:53):
I saw his name pop up on my social media and I thought, no,
no, no, no, no, no. This can't be, this isn't Cameron Crowe.
So I went behind the scenes and, and cause I hadn't talked to him in years.
And I went behind the scenes and I said, Hey, Cameron, if this is you, that's really excited.
I'm excited to hear you or see your name pop up. And I'm coming to California
(02:14):
to do a concert with my friend, Timothy B. Schmidt.
And if that's you, I want you to come and be my guest.
And he wrote right back and said, it's me and I'll be there.
And we reconnected and it was just so cool just to reconnect with him after all those years.
So So he got involved with us on kind of like a temporary basis and then has
really joined in to really do a lot of interviews and some other things,
(02:35):
which has really been cool.
So, you know, I've had people from Clive Davis to David Geffen to my friends
that I play music with, you know, doing little interviews.
And it's going to be a different story. And I'm really excited for it to come out.
I mean, because it is a pretty unique story to start, you know,
a rock and roll career. And then all of a sudden, you know, have my life go
(02:57):
upside down, my wife wanting a divorce and this and that and the other,
by the way, we have been married for 57 years now.
So everything's good, but there are just a lot of ups and downs.
And, you know, so, and some people that were interviewed, you know,
there's been some conflict with, so it's not necessarily, Hey, a pat on the back.
This is the greatest guy in the world. It's a real story of a real person.
(03:19):
Fascinating man so much so much to dig into over there and
that you mentioned cameron crowe and that interview and
you were his first he must have been 14 or 15
at the time is that right i think he was he was 15 or 16 years old i think yeah
he just started his career you know vinnie i read that i read the interview
recently it was great it was towards the tail end of your career with poco and
(03:41):
was there any recollection you have of being interviewed by him at that time Not really.
Oh. No. Another time.
Yeah, other than the pictures that I've seen, you know, when we did do it. Yeah, crazy.
Neil Young, for example, is an amazing archivist. He's collected everything
that's happened in his universe.
(04:02):
Are you that type of archivist where you have these things where you can look
back and understand the time and place based on these pieces?
No. I kind of live in the moment. As things go by, one piece that I would really
wish I had was what Neil taught me.
Nowadays, Clancy can't even sing. Before there was ever a Buffalo Springfield
(04:25):
back in New York, when he came by our apartment back in New York, he wanted to go.
He came to town to pedal some songs, and he stayed at our apartment.
He played me some songs and played Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing.
It was like, man, I want to record this. And I'd gone to New York with a tape
recorder that my dad gave my mom one Christmas, you know, and had him do it.
(04:48):
And I can't find the real now.
I mean, that would be a classic that would be really pretty cool to have.
I have no idea where it is.
Significant piece of music history right there. And let's, let's go back to
that because the early, the early beginnings, the pre beginnings of the Buffalo
Springfield are just as fascinating to me as the beginnings of it and the history of it. So,
(05:09):
Before Buffalo Springfield, you were living in New York and playing with Stephen
Stills, right, in the A Go-Go Singers.
Right. How did you come to connect originally with Stephen Stills,
and what was a young Stephen Stills like at that time?
Well, I had gone to New York, first of all, with my a cappella choir from Otterbein
(05:29):
College, and we saw that we had a night off.
Off and one of the guys that I was singing with when we were in New York,
I mean, this guy could sell you anything.
And he went around these various little clubs. We, you know,
he went, one of them was the Cafe Wah and said, Hey, can we come in and play?
You know, I mean, good golly, right off the street, but that was the way it
(05:50):
was back in New York in those days.
And I thought it was pretty cool that they did let us in, but you know what?
They let us in when they were changing the audiences.
So we were, we were like the people movers at the time.
But anyway, when we We came back to New York, convinced my buddies to go back in the summertime.
And Stephen was at this little pass the basket club that we had played in called
(06:11):
the Four Winds, which was on West 3rd Street.
And we became friends. And I was taken right away with Stephen's talent.
I mean, you could really see that he had a lot of talent. We became good friends, obviously.
Eddie Miller put the A Go-Go Singers together.
We became the house band at the Cafe A Go-Go, which was across the street from the Bitter End.
(06:33):
And in that amount of time, we were together for, I don't know,
maybe six months. We did a record for Roulette Records.
Oh, boy. Got that record. Yeah.
And we did a supper club tour of Texas.
We did a Rudy Valley on Broadway tonight television show and an off-Broadway
(06:55):
play, which was off-Broadway in two weeks. So, I mean, a lot of excitement, though, in six months.
And I actually then, the group broke up and I didn't know what I was going to be doing.
So I called a cousin of mine who was an executive up at Pratt & Whitney Aircraft.
And I went up to East Hartford and went to work in handing out tools and the
(07:18):
tool crew up there. there.
During this time, there was a friend of mine that lived across the street from us on Thompson Street.
I lived at 171 Thompson, and he lived across the street closer up to Bleecker.
And he brought me the Byrds first record up to where I was living.
And he said, you've never heard anything like this. And truly,
(07:40):
I hadn't heard anything like it.
By the way, his name was Graham Parsons. And-
And when I heard it, I said, I got to get a hold of Stephen and get out of here.
Because even though I told him I'd be at Pratt & Whitney to get the gold watch,
it was like, man, when I heard that music, it was like, man, it was in my blood, man.
I had to play music. That's all there was to it.
And in a roundabout way, I got a hold of Stephen.
(08:02):
The only address I knew of Stephen's
was his dad, who was in imports and exports, I guess, in El Salvador.
And I don't know how I had his address. didn't have Stephen's address,
but I sent him a letter and I waited for a return.
And it seemed like it was just never coming. And finally it came back.
I didn't have enough postage on the letter.
(08:25):
So I had to put another stamp on, send it back. And then Stephen did get in
touch with me and said, come on out to California, got a band together.
All I need is another singer and hey, let's do it again.
And so I said, let me take care of my business. Took care of that,
went out to California and the band was me and Steven. There was no band.
(08:46):
At first it was something like a sucker punch because I was like,
I'd come all the way across country and I was expecting there to be a band already together.
But as time went on, it proved to be one of the most valuable times for Steven
and I, because we were in this little apartment on Fountain Avenue or Fountain,
(09:07):
I guess, Fountain Boulevard, Fountain Avenue. I think it was Avenue.
And we were in this tiny little apartment. That's what Stephen had.
And we just sat across from each other and just sang all of the songs,
learned all of the songs that he had for the first record, Buffalo Springfield record.
And we learned how to phrase together, harmonize together, sing in unison together.
(09:30):
It was just, it was a perfect time when you look back on it now.
And you know then during one of
these times you know Stephen had met Neil and
I'd met Neil and Neil had come to California looking for
Stephen because they played together up in Canada as Stephen was working his
way across to get to California and couldn't find him and here goes this story
(09:53):
that I mean you can't make it up we were both on Sunset Boulevard we were going
east Easton, Neil and Bruce.
He had Bruce Palmer. Neil had Bruce Palmer with him. And we got stuck in traffic,
of course, on Sunset Boulevard.
But we got stuck. And right across, you know, Ben Frank's little restaurant was right there.
But in a traffic jam, we stopped. We said, you know, we went across and,
(10:19):
you know, ended up in that parking lot.
And that was the beginning of Buffalo Springfield right there.
And came back to the little apartment and played Neil.
Now they are Our little, cause I taught, you know, I did that with Steven,
you know, after he taught it to me in New York, you know? And so that was the
beginning of it though. That's absolutely amazing.
And, and were you, were you writing songs as well at that time?
(10:41):
Yeah, but I was, I was.
Playing with it. Yeah. Stephen and I both sold a song once to Screen Gems,
I think it was, during this period of time.
The song he did was Sit Down, I Think I Love You, which ended up on the first
record and done by the Mojo Man. Man, my record or song was a song called My
Kind of Love that I don't even know.
(11:02):
I think it was recorded on some on some Poco record somewhere along the line.
But yeah, so I was writing, but really didn't it.
I didn't really start to get anything recorded until one day I was doing this.
We were doing the second Buffalo Springfield record and I was waiting for the
guys to come to the studio and I was just playing a sad memory.
(11:24):
And all of a sudden you know when i when i played it
you know i'd gone over two or three times and just waiting for
the guys to come and all of a sudden the talkback came out
and it was neo and said we got to record that song you know basically that it
ended up being the recording and neo went out and put some guitar on it and
that was it that ended up on the second on the second record and so that was
(11:44):
the first first song that i ever got recorded and after that then you know i
just It was working my way to try to learn about writing songs.
Amazing. And on that first record, you did a lot of the singing.
How did it come to be that you were singing Nowadays and Flying on the Ground
is Wrong and a couple of the other Neil tunes?
(12:04):
Yeah. You know, everybody kind of thought Neil had this different voice.
And it was a different voice.
But that's what made it unique. And that's what makes Neil, Neil.
But they figured, okay, they've got me in the band now. Now,
what are they going to do? He said, let me sing a couple of his songs.
And I was really happy to do it. I actually did him in a medley from that first
(12:26):
album, Flying on the Ground Does Wrong.
Nowadays, Clancy can't even sing. And do I have to come right out and say it,
which I really feel should have been the first Buffalo Springfield single release.
I think Atlantic made a big mistake by not releasing that song.
I think it was so much more accessible than nowadays.
Clancy can't even sing. It's kind of esoteric. I mean, you know,
(12:48):
the the lyrics are kind of obscure and and and going from the three four to
the four four, I think was a little too complicated.
But boy, do I have to come right out and say it anyway? That's just my take on it.
But it was so funny when Buffalo Springfield got together for our reunion about
I don't know, when was it?
Maybe seven, eight, nine years ago now we did a reunion and Neil had gotten
(13:11):
in touch with him and said, hey, come on out.
Let's just let's go over some songs by ourselves before we do this.
And so, you know, we went out there and, you know, he knew that,
you know, we'd be doing a couple of his songs.
I said, man, I put these in a medley, you know, and I think they're pretty cool,
you know, and I'll play for you.
He said, no, every song has to stand on its own.
(13:31):
And so we ended up only doing, I think, two of the songs, Clancy and Did We Do? No.
Do I have to come right out and say it? We didn't, we didn't do flying on the
ground is wrong, but anyway, that was just Neil's little quirk.
He said, every song kind of stand on its own.
But during my, you know, part of my solo stuff, I've always,
I haven't done it recently, but early on I put this little medley together,
(13:54):
which I thought was pretty cool, but. But I've seen it and it's great. Yeah.
You know, history, history has shown that Neil is very singular with his vision
of how his art is presented.
What was your experience in those early days with translating his songs and
working with him and how to do that?
You know, I was just they were just given to me and presented to me. We actually did.
(14:17):
I won't call it auditions, but for like when it got around to Mr.
Soul at one time, which Neil ended up singing. But Stephen sang it and I sang
it. We all tried, you know, to see how it goes.
But on the first record, you know, it was just here.
Here are some here you do these songs. And I think maybe because of Clancy that
he had already taught me.
(14:38):
And I knew that when, you know, as complicated as it was, that the other ones
just seemed like more maybe something that that I would be, you know,
be more conducive to what I, you know, might feel for it.
But there was seemed to be no problem with it.
I think, you know, Neil obviously wanted to sing his own songs and I don't blame him for that.
And of course, he's got two or three on the first album and on the second album,
(15:01):
the same thing. But the ones that I did, I think he I think he thought I did well.
You know, I mean, I think today as I look at it, you know, I think I do him
better today than I did back then because I was developing in a lot of ways
back then. You know, I mean, I felt like Stephen was a lot further along.
(15:22):
I don't think of Neil at that point in time, but I know from just playing with
Stephen, I just felt like he was certainly a lot further along.
And I really look at, you know, what I learned from him, especially as we sat
together in that little apartment, you know, learning to sing and phrase and
harmonize together and all that time that we spent alone.
Alone aside from the birds who was influencing you
(15:45):
two at that time what kind of what were you listening to and
deriving the inspiration well at that particular time
i was listening to a lot of folk music you know because i mean there's a transition
that was happening at that time you know from i mean i went to new york to be
a folk singer as i think steven did at the same time and but there was a there
was a transition so i was listening a lot of commercial peter paul and Mary
(16:07):
Kingston Trio and groups like that,
earlier on influences was more rockabilly.
I mean, from the more popular, probably Buddy Holly, but to Gene Vincent and
Carl Perkins and and those kind of guys, you know, Eddie Cochran back in the day.
Those were I really that was a lot of my influence. I like that rockabilly stuff.
(16:31):
And do you have any any specific memory when you look back at that first Springfield
album, which you've talked about as the true Springfield? There's the five of you in the studio.
Any specific memories or recollections that stand out from being in Gold Star
at that time recording any any of these songs?
You know, I think it was really we looked upon it. We were all very young.
(16:56):
And and, you know, just we were actually doing what we came to California to do.
And for me it was just like wow
it's really happening at this point in time and obviously
going to gold star and and and recording at you
know a very significant famous studio we recorded our first record on four track
(17:17):
that was crazy or yeah four track but and then playing at the at the whiskey
go-go the band was the best and and we were it just seemed like an exciting
time it It wasn't until just right after that that,
I don't know, you know, Neil's quirkiness started to happen.
And he was here. He was there. He was gone.
And then we had issues, you know, other issues.
(17:39):
And it was like in two years' time, we had nine people in and out of the band,
the five original and four other people.
And it was just like one step forward and two steps back. It was hard to keep
it moving. But for two years, we made an impact.
Oh, yeah, it's significant. And, you know, there's a legend or mythology that
Child's Claim to Fame, which is on the Buffalo Springfield Again album, is about Neil Young.
(18:05):
Is there a truth to that?
He actually questioned me about that. But, yeah, I mean, it was,
you know, I don't know that I was thinking about the lyrics as they were coming
out. I don't know how it all just came about.
It just, there it was. There was a song. But when we were doing our reunion
tour again, we were in Santa Barbara, and I got past the intro.
(18:26):
Da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da, you know, and Neil said, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, stop everything.
Did you write that song about me? it's like
i here i am in front of 5 000 people
and he's questioned me about the song you know after
all those years and it's like oh well yeah on the on the credit on the credits
(18:48):
he played on the song as well and also james james burden and i yeah james james
burden on dobro yeah amazing any recollection of that recording session i wasn't
in the studio when james came in and i I love James.
I mean, Ricky Nelson was a huge influence of mine.
And of course, James Burton played with him. I had the honor of going down to,
now I can't remember if it was Louisiana or Arkansas, wherever he has his little
(19:12):
festival every once in a while.
And I got, I'm not a guitar player, so I don't really know why I was invited
down there, but I was invited down and it was fun to just meet him after all
of these years. Cause what an influence.
I really think he had a big influence on Jimmy Messina's guitar style and all
that. But James was he was great. What a wonderful, wonderful guy.
(19:33):
And and all. But I missed the one thing that I have heard over the years,
and I don't know anything about it, but he never got paid, never got paid.
And I think that was Atlantic's business or whoever was, you know,
the producers of Buffalo Springfield at the time, which I don't know if Green
(19:54):
and Stone still had, you know, producers credit on the second record.
I'd have to go back and look and see if they did. I don't think so.
I think we were. And maybe it was my fault if I got credit for producing that song. Yeah.
And I read in an article, it was from, I think, 1971, where you mentioned Expecting
to Fly, and that was a song that you had hoped to sing.
(20:16):
Was there ever any time where you did take a lead vocal on that song? No.
And it was one of the songs that I really liked.
And Neil, of course, went off with Jack Nitsche and was doing a lot of stuff
outside the group because the first record was the only record that the original band played on.
And everything there, there were a couple songs on the second one and maybe
(20:40):
one or two songs on the third album that the band played on.
The rest of it was... And so I think when Neil went off and just did it with
Jack Nitsche, it just became his song.
And I want to talk real quick about the birds, because you mentioned early on
that it's amazing that the birds were what got you to California.
And then ultimately, Chris Hillman and Crosby were catalysts to help you guys go forward.
(21:05):
What was that relationship like with those guys at that time?
And how did it end up that Crosby played with the Springfield at Monterey?
You know, yeah, both Chris and David were influential, helping get us into even
the Whiskey A Go-Go, you know, to become a house band basically there. They both liked us.
(21:28):
And, you know, yes, we were all friends. I've always kept a low profile on my career.
I've never been a hangout guy where I just need to feel like I got to be seen
someplace and do something.
And so, you know, my friendships were more, you know, they weren't as deep where,
hey, let's go out and have, you know, go to lunch or do something together.
(21:49):
You know, I mean, it was like we'd see each other and it would just be a friendly thing.
So, yeah, we hung out like we were. We were friends.
You know, how David got involved was, well, of course, Neil.
That was one of the times when Neil decided that he wasn't going to,
you know, be a part of the band. And probably I think it was through Stephen
and David's relationship that David said, hey, let me I'll sit in with you guys.
(22:14):
But, you know, I mean, and David's a David's a singer. He's another rhythm guitar player.
He's not a lead guitar player or wasn't. And, you know, so it was a little strange.
I don't think we really did a very good job at Monterey.
Yeah, I think it's it was a little loose, but there's this myth.
There's a mythology to it, although, you know, just from the time of the festival
(22:40):
and, you know, when it later happened with Stephen Stills and Crosby forming CSN.
Definitely, it's significant in that realm. And then I want to ask you about
last time around and a couple of curiosities on it.
There's one hard to wait, the second song on the album, I think it's a co-write
between you and Neil Young. Um, is what's, what's the backstory on, on that?
(23:05):
Well, it was a song that I had started. And, you know, I think I played it for Neil.
And I don't even know what he added to the song. I really don't know.
Because we didn't sit down and say, hey, we're going to write a song together.
It was a song that I had that I'd already started.
(23:26):
And, you know, Neil added something. And I think we did that on another song that's on that album.
But I did not get credit on that one. Which one was that?
(24:04):
These guys that sit down and write, because every song that I've written with
somebody where I had a co-write,
even in some of my solo career with one of the guys that I played with for so
long, Scott Sellen, you know, we did sit down together, but you know what,
we never, it was, I'm going to take this home now and work on it.
I don't know if it's because, you know, you sit there and, oh boy,
(24:24):
that stinks, you know, I don't want anybody to ever hear that,
you know, and then try it again until you get something, yeah,
I like that, I'll go show this to him now, you know, but But so I don't I don't really remember.
I mean, Neil and I did not sit down and say he probably said here,
man, this is a part of this song that it kind of fits and it sounds good.
What do you think? And I thought, well, sounds all right to me. Let's do it.
(24:48):
Then there's another very interesting curiosity on the album,
which is The Hour of Not Quite Rain, which is an interesting co-write.
If you look at the album, you can't really tell the backstory of that song,
but that song's backstory is pretty fascinating.
Made him you don't mind sharing it very interesting song
it was khj which
(25:10):
was a big radio station in los angeles at the time an am radio song station
and it was a contest you write the lyrics and buffalo springfield will write
the music to the song and it'll become a hit well neil wasn't interested.
Stephen wasn't interested. Dewey could have cared less.
(25:33):
And so, you know what? Bruce Palmer picked the lyrics.
And I was the last guy standing, you know, is to write the music.
And so basically I wrote the music and it became really a very strange song.
A lot of people listen to it and they say, this is a very interesting and strange
song. And yes, it is. them very interesting.
(25:55):
And I will say that it stretched me, you know, I mean, it wasn't something that
I would normally write, because when you're writing that somebody else's lyrics,
it, you know, it's just difficult.
And I wouldn't call myself a really musical major in college or whatever,
you know, where I can figure this out, there's no problem here,
(26:16):
you know, it was something that I just kind of, kind of came and there it was,
though, but it was interesting, you know, those Those lyrics are kind of, they are different.
It's a different lyric, and it's a different melody, and there it was.
Neil Whitney put that on one of the box sets that we did. I don't think he liked
it at all, but then there's some people that complained.
(26:37):
Why wasn't that song on the box set? You know, I really like it.
So that was it, though. It was a KHJ contest.
You write the lyrics, Springfield will write the music to it,
and Bruce picked the lyrics and said, here. Yeah.
Incredible. And, you know, before, before you guys broke up,
there was, well, first of all, did you see that the movie Echo in the Canyon?
(27:02):
So that, which was, which was where I loved, I enjoyed it.
And Stephen Stills recounts a story that was toward the end of the Buffalo Springfield,
which was you guys were in Topanga Canyon, which is about a mile from where I'm at right now.
And you were with Eric Clapton and Neil and Messina and you were jamming and
there was an incident that happened on that.
(27:23):
And Stills recounted it from his perspective and he's the one who escaped from that incident.
So I'd be curious to hear from you a little of the backstory of that and your
recollection of the incident at the Topanga house.
Well, the police came twice. They came one night and they said,
listen, you know what? I mean, truthfully, we thought we were in the woods.
(27:46):
No one was around, you know, but they came and they said, knocked on the door,
said, look, you guys at 10 o'clock or whatever hour, you know,
you got to bring it down, you know, because a lot of noise out here and people,
you know, want their peace and quiet. And so they left.
And the next night we were playing and jamming and doing it again.
And I had left and my wife and I had left at the evening. And then I remembered
(28:12):
that, oh, Jimmy was going to go shopping with me the next day to go get a stereo system.
And we went back. And I tell you, Scott, we were in the house less than five minutes.
And the next thing I know, man, people are coming in the doors,
in the window, everywhere in the world, you know.
(28:34):
And we were arrested and taken down to the Malibu police station.
Nancy went down. She ended up actually at Sybil Brand down at the, at the lake.
I mean, if you'd known, if you know my wife, man, I mean, it just doesn't work, man.
But we all went to the Malibu police station and then down to LA County.
And, and we were fortunate enough to have known, and we were getting ready to do a Beach Boys tour.
(28:58):
And so that's how we got really bailed out. But I can remember walking into
a jail cell, man, down at LA County. and I walked in and there was like four bunks in this cell.
And there was one guy in the cell and he was laying on his bed and he just said, that one's yours.
And it's like, yeah, no problem, man. So I got on my bed, man,
(29:18):
hung out and waited until somebody came to get me after going through the whole routine.
I do remember as we walked into the.
Malibu police station, there was a big metal door with little bars across the top.
And there was a guy sitting in there and he was singing one of Clapton's songs.
(29:39):
I have a cream song or something, and it was like, this is the strangest thing in the world.
But what a nightmare it was, man. I mean, the police came in, took us away.
And I know that Nancy's mom, she read
about it in the LA times it made the headlines of
the la times that's how she heard her daughter went to jail
that night you know it's like my gosh man so it
(30:02):
was it was quite a quite a fiasco but uh
fortunately you know because we were working with the beach
boys at the time they got us out and the only
thing rest of it i just remember is i had to go and testify testify
for eric clapton so he could come back and work
i mean don't even think eric even remembers it
anymore but what a time i mean you
(30:23):
know thinking about in 1967 68 you could get arrested for smoking a joint and
playing loud music we live in a different day and age man there's no doubt about
it yeah it was pretty scary i mean you know the whole routine just going from
you know from capanga to malibu to to downtown LA.
It was a scary time.
(30:48):
The last show you guys played was just a few weeks later in Long Beach.
Did you know that the end was happening at that point? Yeah, pretty much so.
I've always thought and always said that the Springfield was his band.
I really believe that the Springfield was, he was the heart and soul.
(31:10):
And I said, I'll be there as as long as Stephen's there, when Stephen decides
that, you know, it's time to, time to call it a day and move on to something
else, then, you know, I'll move on to something else too.
And, and Jimmy and I had become good friends and had already talked about,
you know, what we were going to, you know, do, how we were going to proceed.
You know, after that, we weren't just, I wasn't going back to Pratt and Whitney
(31:32):
and he wasn't going to, you know, we wanted to play, but when,
you know, when we, we knew it was over.
And so when it was over, you know, Jimmy and I
just started to pick up the pieces if you will absolutely and it's it's amazing
and very fitting that the final song on the final buffalo springfield album
is kind woman about your wife who you've been with for 57 years yes but uh this
(31:54):
is the song in which you jimmy and ultimately met rusty young to start poco,
absolutely absolutely absolutely incredible.
Any recollections of those first meetings with Rusty Young and how the three
of you, I know you were talking with Jimmy before, but you and Rusty ultimately
got in the fold to start the band?
(32:16):
Well, as we were talking about it, obviously, we thought that this was a good
song to be a catalyst to what we wanted to do.
I mean, it had a country feel to it.
And, you know, we were thinking about putting a steel guitar on the song.
A road manager suggested, hey, I know this steel guitar player,
a young guy back in Denver, and he's a friend, and he's the greatest steel guitar player in the world.
(32:40):
And Tim and I just said, okay, sight unseen.
What are we going to lose, man? We'll fly him out here and get him to play on the song.
And so when Rusty came, I guess his guitar never made it.
His steel guitar didn't make it for the time of the session.
So he used a steel guitar that he wasn't even comfortable with or whatever.
(33:01):
But I'll tell you what, that song now with him on it, you know,
has made a lot of an impact on a lot of people.
I know Dan Dugmore is on our documentary and Dan's a good friend of mine.
And he said, you know, hearing that on Kind Woman, he said, that's what made
me want to pick up the steel guitar.
But Jimmy and I, you know, as we're sitting there, we looked at each other and
(33:23):
said, yeah, this guy, let's see what we got.
Here and so we talked to rusty if he wanted to join the band
or actually start a band with us and he
said yes and so we were short a drummer and we were short a bass player and
the rust he said hey i got a drummer back in denver that's really good and he
sings good and plays good and so he invited george out and george became our
(33:48):
drummer and what a great asset to poco i mean I mean,
George was the unsung hero for sure of Poco.
He could just sing. He had a good ear.
And I mean, to play some of the parts that he played, he was a terrific drummer
and on. I love him so much. But so we had that.
And then we start auditioning bass players for Poco.
You know, after the band, you know, after, you know, last time around and Rusty
(34:11):
was on the record. And now we're starting a new band.
And the two bass players you interviewed were two legendary bass players.
Randy Meisner and Timothy B.
Schmidt. man Poco became the farm team for the space players man how do you
choose between one of these two guys it was difficult.
Because I think we auditioned. From my recollection, we auditioned them on the same day.
(34:35):
I don't know if that was 50 years ago. I can't really remember.
All I remember is I was going through a bunch of stuff that I had,
letters in a box someplace, and I was just going through it.
Oh, this is probably about five, six, seven years ago.
And I found this letter that Timothy wrote and he wrote back and said,
(34:56):
hey, thanks a lot for the opportunity to audition.
I know that you'll make the best choice possible, you know, but I just want
you to know that I really appreciate the opportunity that you gave me.
And so I got that letter. I got it framed and I sent it to him,
you know, because it probably fits in his up on his, you know,
whatever, as well as it does mine.
But there were there were some issues with a
(35:18):
couple guys well one guy in particular in the band that
really felt that you know they liked randy a lot better than
they liked timothy and so you know we gave
the you know and randy great and
talented and and just wonderful you know player and and singer and so it was
a hard choice but you know as time would have it when we were recording the
(35:40):
first album there became issues with randy wanting to sit in it's really It's
really difficult when you're recording, especially with Jimmy...
Not being able to he was an engineer and he you know because columbia had union people,
he couldn't put his hands on on the board to do mixing and it's very subtle
and very difficult and so if jimmy oh man i need this just here you know and
(36:05):
and if there's too much going on in the studio you know because somebody if
you're if me i'm sitting there well then i need my voice a a little higher.
I need this a little higher, you know, and then you got to pay.
So we just said, look, we got to get it to a certain point and then we'll let
everybody, you know, you know, voice their opinions and we'll take notes and
(36:27):
see what we do to readjust it, you know.
And Randy wasn't satisfied with that. And that's when he left.
And that's when we went, you know, I went up to Sacramento.
Timothy had gone back up to Sacramento and I, you know, we stopped in and Heard
him play one night and he knew why we were there.
He joined a band at that particular moment in time. And Timothy,
(36:47):
I've become great friends over the years.
I mean, he's played on as many of my solo projects as I can get him on.
And, you know, I've opened up for him when he's been doing solo things.
And he's just a really, really good friend. It seems like a very kind man.
Oh, sweet. He's one of the sweetest. and and
(37:08):
you know i find it interesting that time when you started poco that
la scene and i'm curious why and
how did it evolve into like a country rock scene because it wasn't just you
guys graham parsons was there doing stuff with the birds uh gene clark was doing
stuff with dillard and clark michael nesmith was doing his stuff uh yeah how
(37:29):
why was this country scene How did it evolve in Los Angeles?
And it doesn't seem natural. I have no idea other than, you know,
I guess everybody like myself, you know, there was well, Graham and I had talked
about putting a band together.
Tell me about that. When he came out to L.A., you know, he was he was working
(37:50):
with the birds and he was thinking about putting a band together.
And we talked about it and we just couldn't sort out, you know,
how we're going to split the people up. You know, I was very satisfied with
with who I had in the band and the band that I had.
And he was he was, too. But how are you going to change it around?
So it never it never did happen.
(38:10):
But if you talk to like Chris, he'll even tell you, man, we were a country band.
We weren't a country rock band. We played every country dive,
you know, out there in the Los Angeles area.
But, yeah, the birds was sweetheart of the rodeo. and Michael Nesbitt,
you know, he was, it was just something that was just.
Was germinating at the time in LA.
(38:34):
Now, I had written Child's Claim to Fame, which obviously was country and kind
woman, you know, which had a country feel to it.
So it was something that was in my heart, that kind of style of music anyway.
And so it was just evolving at the time. It's interesting that Poco had their
Picking Up the Pieces record.
We were working on it before the
(38:56):
the birds sweetheart of the rodeo actually came out and
and so you know but hey man you
gotta give them credit for what they did i mean chris had a lot
of bluegrass stuff going on with him and and uh
and also it was just there was just a scene that was happening and it was filling
a gap that was just supposed to happen at the time you know like doo-wop happened
(39:18):
back in new york one time and here we got some country stuff going now that's
really it's really cool stuff and on On that first Poco album,
you had What a Day, which I heard on a Buffalo Springfield box set.
There was a demo previous.
Were there any other songs that you had done for Poco, either live or thought
(39:38):
about doing, that were left over from the Springfield era?
Well, the only other one would have been My Kind of Love, which was a song that I still don't even...
Yeah, it was on, I think, one of the later Poco albums, but that was a song that I did.
And it's interesting the nitty-gritty dirt band did a country version
of that and i did kind of like i don't
(39:58):
know what kind of version of it because it was a it was a difficult
time in my life but i did a whole it was it was just it's funny how you can
take a song and one group will play it this way because i think the original
way did have a little more country to it that's why the dirt band picked it
up and played it on one of their albums but um i think that was the only one And on the box set,
(40:20):
What a Day, Stephen actually sang it, I think.
And that was really an honor for me to have him sing one of my songs,
you know? That was really cool. That was really cool.
And then I want to talk a little on Graham Parsons again from Crazy Eyes.
I've actually got that album right over here.
I was listening to it last night. All right. I love it. And I have a couple of questions.
(40:40):
One, Brass Buttons, which you cover on, which was released, I think,
right before Graham passed away and before Graham even put it on one of his own albums.
Did Graham know that you were covering this? Do you have any idea if he ever
heard your Poco version?
I don't know because he taught it to me when we were friends back in New York.
When we were both, you know, living in, you know, that's where I learned the song back then.
(41:02):
I thought, good golly, man, this is really a pretty interesting song,
you know, for a young guy like him to be writing.
And for years, I mean, I really didn't even know that it was about his mom.
You know, but I loved the song.
I thought the song was, it just really touched me, you know,
it was a really, really sweet song.
And I don't know that he, that he knew that I
(41:23):
was recording it or not i don't know
you do you do a beautiful job on it and then
crazy eyes which is also when we talk about mythology the
mythologies that that's also about graham parsons is that
well some aspects of it i definitely
i definitely stole you know i mean if you look ever you know speaking to graham
(41:44):
you could look in his eyes you know and he was they were kind of bushy and you
looked into him and you could see there was something weird in there you know
because graham Graham was a he was a he was an interesting kind of kind of guy.
I mean, and so I crazy eyes. And then I talked about, you know,
growing South Carolina pines where he grew up and this and that and the other.
So I guess you got to put some kind of connotation to the song had had something about a gram.
(42:10):
But it was a song that I had written years ago.
I mean, before it was ever recorded as just a simple little folk song.
And that's how we recorded it.
And Jack Richardson, who was the producer at the time, was working with Bob Ezrin.
And he said, let me let me send this to Bob and let him orchestrate this.
(42:31):
And I said, hey, have at it. Let's see what happens. And man,
it came back and it was like, wow, this is an epic. This was an epic.
Oh, yeah. It's so amazing. And rusty steel inside of it. it. Yeah.
Oh, just so beautiful. And then I find that second side of Crazy Eyes to be
just perfect with Magnolia, then the song that closes it, you do.
(42:54):
I just, I think it's tremendous. A great coda to your time with Poco as well, I feel.
Yeah. And Jack was a great guy to work with at the same time.
You know, we were looking for that. We kept looking for that producer that was
going to produce that hit record for us because he was, you know,
involved with the Guess Who back up in Canada, you know.
(43:14):
And, you know, I wanted Richie Podler to actually be the producer.
We finally got him for the first Salder, Hellman, Furet record. record
but yeah crazy eyes you know turned out
to be quite a classic and i think jack had a lot to do with
you know just the idea let me send this off to bob ezrin you
know the bobble he'll he'll give a he'll give
a little twist to it you know which would be cool and it was man we heard
(43:36):
it was like oh yeah really beautiful
and then you mentioned southern home and fury which is
your your next venture which changed your life
in the most maybe significant way tell me
tell me about how that impacted you beyond
music okay yeah i i became disillusioned
(43:57):
that poco was ever gonna you know me and at this point
it had changed from just let's just play the music and
have a good time till well i gotta take care of my family now so
that means i have to make some money doing this you know and and then
then you know i saw steven and neil you know
going to you know just phenomenal success and i'm
sitting back and man we're just laying there you know nothing's really
(44:17):
happening with poco and so that's when we got jack to
come in and record the the good feeling to
know album and we thought for sure that good feeling
to know was going to be a hit i mean there was i mean everybody when we recorded
the song when we released the song we thought it was going to be a hit and when
it just it didn't i don't know that it even hardly charted you know it just
(44:39):
left an emptiness in my in my heart and and so i came you know we've gone on
tour when when i first heard.
When it was just first released we were back doing every
suny back in new york man i mean it was like
every gymnasium you can imagine you know and we're on
our way to a gig and and the radio is on
and all of a sudden it was well i'm traveling down the road trying to listen
(45:02):
my load you know and it's like oh my gosh there's the eagles you know and it
just my heart just sank came home talked to david geffen and david basically
said well chris hillman's looking for something to do and J.D.
Souther is looking for something to do.
You know, why don't we just put together another Crosby, Stills,
and Nash? And I'm thinking...
That's all there is to it. That's all you have to do today. You know,
(45:24):
and anyway, Chris and J.D.
And I got together and and it was, you know, it was difficult.
Sometimes what looks good on paper doesn't always translate into reality.
Chris and J.D. and I are still friends. You know, I mean, obviously,
I've worked with Chris before and and and J.D.
(45:44):
Golly, man, I mean, just a great guy. And we're we're still friends.
But you know what it didn't connect and probably it
didn't connect because at the time I was having a crisis in
my life that I didn't even know was happening and part
of it happened when my wife became a Christian and
Chris wanted Al and Al Perkins he wanted Al Perkins in the band because he had
(46:06):
played with him in Manassas and Chris had the I mean Al had his little sticker
on his guitar that said Jesus is Lord and I said no no way man I don't want
this guy in the band because he'll He'll stop us from becoming,
you know, the success that I think, you know, and why?
He could have been anything, but he was a Christian. And why did that stop me,
you know, from wanting him in the band?
(46:28):
But anyway, he did get in the band. I became a believer.
And then Nancy and I separated after seven years of being married.
We separated for seven months.
And it was a struggle, you know, getting all of this together,
man. Man, I thought becoming a Christian, you had blue skies,
green lights and tops down weather, you know, and had, hey, no,
it's just life like everybody else, man.
(46:49):
You got to struggle with it. But we had the Lord to help us.
And without him, we wouldn't have made it.
But I basically said, you know what?
I'm done with I'm done with everything. The most important thing for me in my
life right now is my family and I got to get them back together.
And so we only made two records. We made a record right up at Caribou Ranch,
which at the time was only like maybe five miles away from my home.
(47:11):
With tommy dowd and it's like i don't even
remember making the record man my mind was so so exploded
away but it was a difficult time but it
was a great time you know i mean souther hillman furet could have probably been
a different a different band of course there was the the drama with jim gordon
you know i mean we had great guys and i mean paul harris on keyboard al on guitar
(47:34):
and dobro and banjo and every instrument
you can imagine he is a terrific player i mean You know, really.
And then Jimmy Gordon, who had three sets of drums going around L.A.
At the time, doing all these sessions, you know, and it just I don't know,
for Scott, for whatever reason, you know, just wasn't it wasn't going to happen, man. But.
But it seems like there was divine, you know, the fact that you ended up in
(47:56):
that place in that time with Al Perkins, that perhaps it would have been,
you know, you may not be married, you may not. That's right.
It feels like when I look at your story and I listen to your story,
there's a lot of these, like, you have to believe in God, you have to believe in something.
How do all these things line up? And it's pretty remarkable.
(48:19):
After that, you stopped doing music for a while and you were ministering.
What brought you back to music? music?
You know, it's interesting. I had a friend of mine who was a writer.
His name is Kenny Weisberg.
And he was a friend of mine back here. He was actually on KBCO on the radio,
(48:40):
as well as writing for the Boulder Camera.
And when Kenny left Colorado, he went out to San Diego and he was the promoter
at Humphreys by the Bay, the club out there.
And out of the clear blue, he called me one time and said, hey,
man, why don't you come out and do a concert out here?
Well, man, I said, Kenny, I haven't done anything, man, probably in seven, eight, nine years.
(49:03):
I don't know what, I'll find the perfect concert for you.
And so that was basically the starting of me putting bands together again.
That particular time, he had me come out with just my friend that I played with
for many, many, many years, whose name is also Scott, Scott Sellen.
We went out as a duo and opened up for Stephen.
(49:26):
And then the next thing we know, we have a little band. We're adding people
to the band, and we come out, and we open up for Emmylou Harris.
And then we headlined the thing ourselves one time.
And so just one thing just catapulted into the other, and I just started playing music again.
And it was something that I had to kind of balance my life because at that time
(49:48):
I had become a believer and I became a pastor.
And so, I mean, my life was like turning in one way and going the other way
and it was like, how do I balance all of this out?
You know, it became a challenge, particularly for the church.
But then again, you know, when I started Poco, Poco was too country for rock
(50:08):
and too rock for country.
And then I became a believer. And when I released my first record on Asylum
Records, my first solo album, it was too Christian for the world and too worldly
for the Christian, because you can't find the name of Jesus on that album anyplace.
But everything is about putting my life back together, you know,
with my wife and the Lord being instrumental in that.
(50:31):
So it was, it's, it's, that's part of the documentary, you know,
it's just like a crazy, crazy life story, man.
You put out a record a few years ago and are you, are you still writing music,
recording music or scoring at all?
I'm still writing music. I don't know how I just, I had to write a song for
the documentary that I, that I wrote. And I'm not one of these guys that is such a prolific writer.
(50:56):
And, you know, one of the producers of the documentary, Denny,
kept saying, man, we've got to have this song for the end of the doc.
You've got to have this song, you know. I said, Denny, you know, if it comes, it comes.
If it doesn't come, I can't force it, you know. And one day I'm riding in the
car and all of a sudden there it was.
And I put it down. And so I have recorded that at a friend's studio downtown. town.
(51:19):
And then I went out to hear John Jorgensen and his band, his bluegrass band.
Oh, I don't know, this was right after the first of the year.
And I just sat back there, man, in a little tiny place.
I mean, this guy, John's a number one, he's a phenomenal player,
but what a great, sweet guy, you know, and he helped put together the whole
(51:40):
thing with the Western, Western Edge.
We got a a big display in nashville at the country rock music
hall of fame out there now and and then
he's out playing with elton john and then he's playing at
this little tiny place called the the dairy theater or something back here in
boulder and we went down to hear him i'm just sitting there man and this just
brought a smile on my face and i i wrote a song called the bluegrass boys you
(52:04):
know came home and just wrote a song so i'm writing if it's for no one else
but me there you go man but I yeah.
Well Richie thank you so much for the time thank you for everything and the
legacy you've built is incredible,
thank you Scott I really appreciate it man thank you for listening to the Legends
(52:25):
Podcast by All Day Vinyl if you enjoyed this episode please rate it share it
subscribe and follow us and check us out at All Day Vinyl on Instagram and YouTube.
Thank you for listening. This is the Legends Podcast by All Day Vinyl.
I'm your host, Scott Dettelson.
After you finish this episode, please subscribe, rate, and check us out on Instagram
and YouTube at All Day Vinyl.
Today, I'm excited to speak with a legend and induct him into the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame and a country rock pioneer.
My guest is a founding member of two legendary bands, Buffalo Springfield,
which he founded with Neil Young and Stephen Stills, and Poco,
(00:22):
which he founded with Jim Messina and Rusty Young.
Over the last 40 years, this gentleman has released solo albums while simultaneously
serving as a pastor at the Calvary Chapel in Broomfield, Colorado,
retiring from ministering just a few years ago.
In 2022, he released a fantastic album called In the Country and is the subject
of an upcoming documentary about his life.
I'm pleased to introduce to you the great Richie Fure. Richie,
(00:45):
thank you so much for joining.
Scott, my pleasure, man. Good to talk to you. Thank you, Brian.
I appreciate it. So let's start with the present, working our way back.
I've got got a lot of questions for you, but I was very excited to see that
there's a documentary that's been in the works about your life.
And I was wondering if there's any update when we might be able to see that
and tell me a little more about the genesis of it.
(01:08):
Well, I just had a sizzler sent to me that's going to be sent out to places
like Sundance and Netflix to just see, you know, if somebody will pick it up.
It came about by my friends, David Stone and Denny Klein, who really thought
my life story was something unique enough to want to document.
I would have had no thoughts in the world to do it, but they sure did.
(01:29):
And we started it and with everything else, COVID gotten away and kind of slowed
things down, but it is in the final stages right now.
We were really excited to have Cameron Crowe do the voiceovers on it.
And I was Cameron's first first interview years and years and years and years, well, many years ago.
And it was funny how we reconnected to get all this started.
(01:53):
I saw his name pop up on my social media and I thought, no,
no, no, no, no, no. This can't be, this isn't Cameron Crowe.
So I went behind the scenes and, and cause I hadn't talked to him in years.
And I went behind the scenes and I said, Hey, Cameron, if this is you, that's really excited.
I'm excited to hear you or see your name pop up. And I'm coming to California
(02:14):
to do a concert with my friend, Timothy B. Schmidt.
And if that's you, I want you to come and be my guest.
And he wrote right back and said, it's me and I'll be there.
And we reconnected and it was just so cool just to reconnect with him after all those years.
So So he got involved with us on kind of like a temporary basis and then has
really joined in to really do a lot of interviews and some other things,
(02:35):
which has really been cool.
So, you know, I've had people from Clive Davis to David Geffen to my friends
that I play music with, you know, doing little interviews.
And it's going to be a different story. And I'm really excited for it to come out.
I mean, because it is a pretty unique story to start, you know,
a rock and roll career. And then all of a sudden, you know, have my life go
(02:57):
upside down, my wife wanting a divorce and this and that and the other,
by the way, we have been married for 57 years now.
So everything's good, but there are just a lot of ups and downs.
And, you know, so, and some people that were interviewed, you know,
there's been some conflict with, so it's not necessarily, Hey, a pat on the back.
This is the greatest guy in the world. It's a real story of a real person.
(03:19):
Fascinating man so much so much to dig into over there and
that you mentioned cameron crowe and that interview and
you were his first he must have been 14 or 15
at the time is that right i think he was he was 15 or 16 years old i think yeah
he just started his career you know vinnie i read that i read the interview
recently it was great it was towards the tail end of your career with poco and
(03:41):
was there any recollection you have of being interviewed by him at that time Not really.
Oh. No. Another time.
Yeah, other than the pictures that I've seen, you know, when we did do it. Yeah, crazy.
Neil Young, for example, is an amazing archivist. He's collected everything
that's happened in his universe.
(04:02):
Are you that type of archivist where you have these things where you can look
back and understand the time and place based on these pieces?
No. I kind of live in the moment. As things go by, one piece that I would really
wish I had was what Neil taught me.
Nowadays, Clancy can't even sing. Before there was ever a Buffalo Springfield
(04:25):
back in New York, when he came by our apartment back in New York, he wanted to go.
He came to town to pedal some songs, and he stayed at our apartment.
He played me some songs and played Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing.
It was like, man, I want to record this. And I'd gone to New York with a tape
recorder that my dad gave my mom one Christmas, you know, and had him do it.
(04:48):
And I can't find the real now.
I mean, that would be a classic that would be really pretty cool to have.
I have no idea where it is.
Significant piece of music history right there. And let's, let's go back to
that because the early, the early beginnings, the pre beginnings of the Buffalo
Springfield are just as fascinating to me as the beginnings of it and the history of it. So,
(05:09):
Before Buffalo Springfield, you were living in New York and playing with Stephen
Stills, right, in the A Go-Go Singers.
Right. How did you come to connect originally with Stephen Stills,
and what was a young Stephen Stills like at that time?
Well, I had gone to New York, first of all, with my a cappella choir from Otterbein
(05:29):
College, and we saw that we had a night off.
Off and one of the guys that I was singing with when we were in New York,
I mean, this guy could sell you anything.
And he went around these various little clubs. We, you know,
he went, one of them was the Cafe Wah and said, Hey, can we come in and play?
You know, I mean, good golly, right off the street, but that was the way it
(05:50):
was back in New York in those days.
And I thought it was pretty cool that they did let us in, but you know what?
They let us in when they were changing the audiences.
So we were, we were like the people movers at the time.
But anyway, when we We came back to New York, convinced my buddies to go back in the summertime.
And Stephen was at this little pass the basket club that we had played in called
(06:11):
the Four Winds, which was on West 3rd Street.
And we became friends. And I was taken right away with Stephen's talent.
I mean, you could really see that he had a lot of talent. We became good friends, obviously.
Eddie Miller put the A Go-Go Singers together.
We became the house band at the Cafe A Go-Go, which was across the street from the Bitter End.
(06:33):
And in that amount of time, we were together for, I don't know,
maybe six months. We did a record for Roulette Records.
Oh, boy. Got that record. Yeah.
And we did a supper club tour of Texas.
We did a Rudy Valley on Broadway tonight television show and an off-Broadway
(06:55):
play, which was off-Broadway in two weeks. So, I mean, a lot of excitement, though, in six months.
And I actually then, the group broke up and I didn't know what I was going to be doing.
So I called a cousin of mine who was an executive up at Pratt & Whitney Aircraft.
And I went up to East Hartford and went to work in handing out tools and the
(07:18):
tool crew up there. there.
During this time, there was a friend of mine that lived across the street from us on Thompson Street.
I lived at 171 Thompson, and he lived across the street closer up to Bleecker.
And he brought me the Byrds first record up to where I was living.
And he said, you've never heard anything like this. And truly,
(07:40):
I hadn't heard anything like it.
By the way, his name was Graham Parsons. And-
And when I heard it, I said, I got to get a hold of Stephen and get out of here.
Because even though I told him I'd be at Pratt & Whitney to get the gold watch,
it was like, man, when I heard that music, it was like, man, it was in my blood, man.
I had to play music. That's all there was to it.
And in a roundabout way, I got a hold of Stephen.
(08:02):
The only address I knew of Stephen's
was his dad, who was in imports and exports, I guess, in El Salvador.
And I don't know how I had his address. didn't have Stephen's address,
but I sent him a letter and I waited for a return.
And it seemed like it was just never coming. And finally it came back.
I didn't have enough postage on the letter.
(08:25):
So I had to put another stamp on, send it back. And then Stephen did get in
touch with me and said, come on out to California, got a band together.
All I need is another singer and hey, let's do it again.
And so I said, let me take care of my business. Took care of that,
went out to California and the band was me and Steven. There was no band.
(08:46):
At first it was something like a sucker punch because I was like,
I'd come all the way across country and I was expecting there to be a band already together.
But as time went on, it proved to be one of the most valuable times for Steven
and I, because we were in this little apartment on Fountain Avenue or Fountain,
(09:07):
I guess, Fountain Boulevard, Fountain Avenue. I think it was Avenue.
And we were in this tiny little apartment. That's what Stephen had.
And we just sat across from each other and just sang all of the songs,
learned all of the songs that he had for the first record, Buffalo Springfield record.
And we learned how to phrase together, harmonize together, sing in unison together.
(09:30):
It was just, it was a perfect time when you look back on it now.
And you know then during one of
these times you know Stephen had met Neil and
I'd met Neil and Neil had come to California looking for
Stephen because they played together up in Canada as Stephen was working his
way across to get to California and couldn't find him and here goes this story
(09:53):
that I mean you can't make it up we were both on Sunset Boulevard we were going
east Easton, Neil and Bruce.
He had Bruce Palmer. Neil had Bruce Palmer with him. And we got stuck in traffic,
of course, on Sunset Boulevard.
But we got stuck. And right across, you know, Ben Frank's little restaurant was right there.
But in a traffic jam, we stopped. We said, you know, we went across and,
(10:19):
you know, ended up in that parking lot.
And that was the beginning of Buffalo Springfield right there.
And came back to the little apartment and played Neil.
Now they are Our little, cause I taught, you know, I did that with Steven,
you know, after he taught it to me in New York, you know? And so that was the
beginning of it though. That's absolutely amazing.
And, and were you, were you writing songs as well at that time?
(10:41):
Yeah, but I was, I was.
Playing with it. Yeah. Stephen and I both sold a song once to Screen Gems,
I think it was, during this period of time.
The song he did was Sit Down, I Think I Love You, which ended up on the first
record and done by the Mojo Man. Man, my record or song was a song called My
Kind of Love that I don't even know.
(11:02):
I think it was recorded on some on some Poco record somewhere along the line.
But yeah, so I was writing, but really didn't it.
I didn't really start to get anything recorded until one day I was doing this.
We were doing the second Buffalo Springfield record and I was waiting for the
guys to come to the studio and I was just playing a sad memory.
(11:24):
And all of a sudden you know when i when i played it
you know i'd gone over two or three times and just waiting for
the guys to come and all of a sudden the talkback came out
and it was neo and said we got to record that song you know basically that it
ended up being the recording and neo went out and put some guitar on it and
that was it that ended up on the second on the second record and so that was
(11:44):
the first first song that i ever got recorded and after that then you know i
just It was working my way to try to learn about writing songs.
Amazing. And on that first record, you did a lot of the singing.
How did it come to be that you were singing Nowadays and Flying on the Ground
is Wrong and a couple of the other Neil tunes?
(12:04):
Yeah. You know, everybody kind of thought Neil had this different voice.
And it was a different voice.
But that's what made it unique. And that's what makes Neil, Neil.
But they figured, okay, they've got me in the band now. Now,
what are they going to do? He said, let me sing a couple of his songs.
And I was really happy to do it. I actually did him in a medley from that first
(12:26):
album, Flying on the Ground Does Wrong.
Nowadays, Clancy can't even sing. And do I have to come right out and say it,
which I really feel should have been the first Buffalo Springfield single release.
I think Atlantic made a big mistake by not releasing that song.
I think it was so much more accessible than nowadays.
Clancy can't even sing. It's kind of esoteric. I mean, you know,
(12:48):
the the lyrics are kind of obscure and and and going from the three four to
the four four, I think was a little too complicated.
But boy, do I have to come right out and say it anyway? That's just my take on it.
But it was so funny when Buffalo Springfield got together for our reunion about
I don't know, when was it?
Maybe seven, eight, nine years ago now we did a reunion and Neil had gotten
(13:11):
in touch with him and said, hey, come on out.
Let's just let's go over some songs by ourselves before we do this.
And so, you know, we went out there and, you know, he knew that,
you know, we'd be doing a couple of his songs.
I said, man, I put these in a medley, you know, and I think they're pretty cool,
you know, and I'll play for you.
He said, no, every song has to stand on its own.
(13:31):
And so we ended up only doing, I think, two of the songs, Clancy and Did We Do? No.
Do I have to come right out and say it? We didn't, we didn't do flying on the
ground is wrong, but anyway, that was just Neil's little quirk.
He said, every song kind of stand on its own.
But during my, you know, part of my solo stuff, I've always,
I haven't done it recently, but early on I put this little medley together,
(13:54):
which I thought was pretty cool, but. But I've seen it and it's great. Yeah.
You know, history, history has shown that Neil is very singular with his vision
of how his art is presented.
What was your experience in those early days with translating his songs and
working with him and how to do that?
You know, I was just they were just given to me and presented to me. We actually did.
(14:17):
I won't call it auditions, but for like when it got around to Mr.
Soul at one time, which Neil ended up singing. But Stephen sang it and I sang
it. We all tried, you know, to see how it goes.
But on the first record, you know, it was just here.
Here are some here you do these songs. And I think maybe because of Clancy that
he had already taught me.
(14:38):
And I knew that when, you know, as complicated as it was, that the other ones
just seemed like more maybe something that that I would be, you know,
be more conducive to what I, you know, might feel for it.
But there was seemed to be no problem with it.
I think, you know, Neil obviously wanted to sing his own songs and I don't blame him for that.
And of course, he's got two or three on the first album and on the second album,
(15:01):
the same thing. But the ones that I did, I think he I think he thought I did well.
You know, I mean, I think today as I look at it, you know, I think I do him
better today than I did back then because I was developing in a lot of ways
back then. You know, I mean, I felt like Stephen was a lot further along.
(15:22):
I don't think of Neil at that point in time, but I know from just playing with
Stephen, I just felt like he was certainly a lot further along.
And I really look at, you know, what I learned from him, especially as we sat
together in that little apartment, you know, learning to sing and phrase and
harmonize together and all that time that we spent alone.
Alone aside from the birds who was influencing you
(15:45):
two at that time what kind of what were you listening to and
deriving the inspiration well at that particular time
i was listening to a lot of folk music you know because i mean there's a transition
that was happening at that time you know from i mean i went to new york to be
a folk singer as i think steven did at the same time and but there was a there
was a transition so i was listening a lot of commercial peter paul and Mary
(16:07):
Kingston Trio and groups like that,
earlier on influences was more rockabilly.
I mean, from the more popular, probably Buddy Holly, but to Gene Vincent and
Carl Perkins and and those kind of guys, you know, Eddie Cochran back in the day.
Those were I really that was a lot of my influence. I like that rockabilly stuff.
(16:31):
And do you have any any specific memory when you look back at that first Springfield
album, which you've talked about as the true Springfield? There's the five of you in the studio.
Any specific memories or recollections that stand out from being in Gold Star
at that time recording any any of these songs?
You know, I think it was really we looked upon it. We were all very young.
(16:56):
And and, you know, just we were actually doing what we came to California to do.
And for me it was just like wow
it's really happening at this point in time and obviously
going to gold star and and and recording at you
know a very significant famous studio we recorded our first record on four track
(17:17):
that was crazy or yeah four track but and then playing at the at the whiskey
go-go the band was the best and and we were it just seemed like an exciting
time it It wasn't until just right after that that,
I don't know, you know, Neil's quirkiness started to happen.
And he was here. He was there. He was gone.
And then we had issues, you know, other issues.
(17:39):
And it was like in two years' time, we had nine people in and out of the band,
the five original and four other people.
And it was just like one step forward and two steps back. It was hard to keep
it moving. But for two years, we made an impact.
Oh, yeah, it's significant. And, you know, there's a legend or mythology that
Child's Claim to Fame, which is on the Buffalo Springfield Again album, is about Neil Young.
(18:05):
Is there a truth to that?
He actually questioned me about that. But, yeah, I mean, it was,
you know, I don't know that I was thinking about the lyrics as they were coming
out. I don't know how it all just came about.
It just, there it was. There was a song. But when we were doing our reunion
tour again, we were in Santa Barbara, and I got past the intro.
(18:26):
Da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da, you know, and Neil said, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, stop everything.
Did you write that song about me? it's like
i here i am in front of 5 000 people
and he's questioned me about the song you know after
all those years and it's like oh well yeah on the on the credit on the credits
(18:48):
he played on the song as well and also james james burden and i yeah james james
burden on dobro yeah amazing any recollection of that recording session i wasn't
in the studio when james came in and i I love James.
I mean, Ricky Nelson was a huge influence of mine.
And of course, James Burton played with him. I had the honor of going down to,
now I can't remember if it was Louisiana or Arkansas, wherever he has his little
(19:12):
festival every once in a while.
And I got, I'm not a guitar player, so I don't really know why I was invited
down there, but I was invited down and it was fun to just meet him after all
of these years. Cause what an influence.
I really think he had a big influence on Jimmy Messina's guitar style and all
that. But James was he was great. What a wonderful, wonderful guy.
(19:33):
And and all. But I missed the one thing that I have heard over the years,
and I don't know anything about it, but he never got paid, never got paid.
And I think that was Atlantic's business or whoever was, you know,
the producers of Buffalo Springfield at the time, which I don't know if Green
(19:54):
and Stone still had, you know, producers credit on the second record.
I'd have to go back and look and see if they did. I don't think so.
I think we were. And maybe it was my fault if I got credit for producing that song. Yeah.
And I read in an article, it was from, I think, 1971, where you mentioned Expecting
to Fly, and that was a song that you had hoped to sing.
(20:16):
Was there ever any time where you did take a lead vocal on that song? No.
And it was one of the songs that I really liked.
And Neil, of course, went off with Jack Nitsche and was doing a lot of stuff
outside the group because the first record was the only record that the original band played on.
And everything there, there were a couple songs on the second one and maybe
(20:40):
one or two songs on the third album that the band played on.
The rest of it was... And so I think when Neil went off and just did it with
Jack Nitsche, it just became his song.
And I want to talk real quick about the birds, because you mentioned early on
that it's amazing that the birds were what got you to California.
And then ultimately, Chris Hillman and Crosby were catalysts to help you guys go forward.
(21:05):
What was that relationship like with those guys at that time?
And how did it end up that Crosby played with the Springfield at Monterey?
You know, yeah, both Chris and David were influential, helping get us into even
the Whiskey A Go-Go, you know, to become a house band basically there. They both liked us.
(21:28):
And, you know, yes, we were all friends. I've always kept a low profile on my career.
I've never been a hangout guy where I just need to feel like I got to be seen
someplace and do something.
And so, you know, my friendships were more, you know, they weren't as deep where,
hey, let's go out and have, you know, go to lunch or do something together.
(21:49):
You know, I mean, it was like we'd see each other and it would just be a friendly thing.
So, yeah, we hung out like we were. We were friends.
You know, how David got involved was, well, of course, Neil.
That was one of the times when Neil decided that he wasn't going to,
you know, be a part of the band. And probably I think it was through Stephen
and David's relationship that David said, hey, let me I'll sit in with you guys.
(22:14):
But, you know, I mean, and David's a David's a singer. He's another rhythm guitar player.
He's not a lead guitar player or wasn't. And, you know, so it was a little strange.
I don't think we really did a very good job at Monterey.
Yeah, I think it's it was a little loose, but there's this myth.
There's a mythology to it, although, you know, just from the time of the festival
(22:40):
and, you know, when it later happened with Stephen Stills and Crosby forming CSN.
Definitely, it's significant in that realm. And then I want to ask you about
last time around and a couple of curiosities on it.
There's one hard to wait, the second song on the album, I think it's a co-write
between you and Neil Young. Um, is what's, what's the backstory on, on that?
(23:05):
Well, it was a song that I had started. And, you know, I think I played it for Neil.
And I don't even know what he added to the song. I really don't know.
Because we didn't sit down and say, hey, we're going to write a song together.
It was a song that I had that I'd already started.
(23:26):
And, you know, Neil added something. And I think we did that on another song that's on that album.
But I did not get credit on that one. Which one was that?
(24:04):
These guys that sit down and write, because every song that I've written with
somebody where I had a co-write,
even in some of my solo career with one of the guys that I played with for so
long, Scott Sellen, you know, we did sit down together, but you know what,
we never, it was, I'm going to take this home now and work on it.
I don't know if it's because, you know, you sit there and, oh boy,
(24:24):
that stinks, you know, I don't want anybody to ever hear that,
you know, and then try it again until you get something, yeah,
I like that, I'll go show this to him now, you know, but But so I don't I don't really remember.
I mean, Neil and I did not sit down and say he probably said here,
man, this is a part of this song that it kind of fits and it sounds good.
What do you think? And I thought, well, sounds all right to me. Let's do it.
(24:48):
Then there's another very interesting curiosity on the album,
which is The Hour of Not Quite Rain, which is an interesting co-write.
If you look at the album, you can't really tell the backstory of that song,
but that song's backstory is pretty fascinating.
Made him you don't mind sharing it very interesting song
it was khj which
(25:10):
was a big radio station in los angeles at the time an am radio song station
and it was a contest you write the lyrics and buffalo springfield will write
the music to the song and it'll become a hit well neil wasn't interested.
Stephen wasn't interested. Dewey could have cared less.
(25:33):
And so, you know what? Bruce Palmer picked the lyrics.
And I was the last guy standing, you know, is to write the music.
And so basically I wrote the music and it became really a very strange song.
A lot of people listen to it and they say, this is a very interesting and strange
song. And yes, it is. them very interesting.
(25:55):
And I will say that it stretched me, you know, I mean, it wasn't something that
I would normally write, because when you're writing that somebody else's lyrics,
it, you know, it's just difficult.
And I wouldn't call myself a really musical major in college or whatever,
you know, where I can figure this out, there's no problem here,
(26:16):
you know, it was something that I just kind of, kind of came and there it was,
though, but it was interesting, you know, those Those lyrics are kind of, they are different.
It's a different lyric, and it's a different melody, and there it was.
Neil Whitney put that on one of the box sets that we did. I don't think he liked
it at all, but then there's some people that complained.
(26:37):
Why wasn't that song on the box set? You know, I really like it.
So that was it, though. It was a KHJ contest.
You write the lyrics, Springfield will write the music to it,
and Bruce picked the lyrics and said, here. Yeah.
Incredible. And, you know, before, before you guys broke up,
there was, well, first of all, did you see that the movie Echo in the Canyon?
(27:02):
So that, which was, which was where I loved, I enjoyed it.
And Stephen Stills recounts a story that was toward the end of the Buffalo Springfield,
which was you guys were in Topanga Canyon, which is about a mile from where I'm at right now.
And you were with Eric Clapton and Neil and Messina and you were jamming and
there was an incident that happened on that.
(27:23):
And Stills recounted it from his perspective and he's the one who escaped from that incident.
So I'd be curious to hear from you a little of the backstory of that and your
recollection of the incident at the Topanga house.
Well, the police came twice. They came one night and they said,
listen, you know what? I mean, truthfully, we thought we were in the woods.
(27:46):
No one was around, you know, but they came and they said, knocked on the door,
said, look, you guys at 10 o'clock or whatever hour, you know,
you got to bring it down, you know, because a lot of noise out here and people,
you know, want their peace and quiet. And so they left.
And the next night we were playing and jamming and doing it again.
And I had left and my wife and I had left at the evening. And then I remembered
(28:12):
that, oh, Jimmy was going to go shopping with me the next day to go get a stereo system.
And we went back. And I tell you, Scott, we were in the house less than five minutes.
And the next thing I know, man, people are coming in the doors,
in the window, everywhere in the world, you know.
(28:34):
And we were arrested and taken down to the Malibu police station.
Nancy went down. She ended up actually at Sybil Brand down at the, at the lake.
I mean, if you'd known, if you know my wife, man, I mean, it just doesn't work, man.
But we all went to the Malibu police station and then down to LA County.
And, and we were fortunate enough to have known, and we were getting ready to do a Beach Boys tour.
(28:58):
And so that's how we got really bailed out. But I can remember walking into
a jail cell, man, down at LA County. and I walked in and there was like four bunks in this cell.
And there was one guy in the cell and he was laying on his bed and he just said, that one's yours.
And it's like, yeah, no problem, man. So I got on my bed, man,
(29:18):
hung out and waited until somebody came to get me after going through the whole routine.
I do remember as we walked into the.
Malibu police station, there was a big metal door with little bars across the top.
And there was a guy sitting in there and he was singing one of Clapton's songs.
(29:39):
I have a cream song or something, and it was like, this is the strangest thing in the world.
But what a nightmare it was, man. I mean, the police came in, took us away.
And I know that Nancy's mom, she read
about it in the LA times it made the headlines of
the la times that's how she heard her daughter went to jail
that night you know it's like my gosh man so it
(30:02):
was it was quite a quite a fiasco but uh
fortunately you know because we were working with the beach
boys at the time they got us out and the only
thing rest of it i just remember is i had to go and testify testify
for eric clapton so he could come back and work
i mean don't even think eric even remembers it
anymore but what a time i mean you
(30:23):
know thinking about in 1967 68 you could get arrested for smoking a joint and
playing loud music we live in a different day and age man there's no doubt about
it yeah it was pretty scary i mean you know the whole routine just going from
you know from capanga to malibu to to downtown LA.
It was a scary time.
(30:48):
The last show you guys played was just a few weeks later in Long Beach.
Did you know that the end was happening at that point? Yeah, pretty much so.
I've always thought and always said that the Springfield was his band.
I really believe that the Springfield was, he was the heart and soul.
(31:10):
And I said, I'll be there as as long as Stephen's there, when Stephen decides
that, you know, it's time to, time to call it a day and move on to something
else, then, you know, I'll move on to something else too.
And, and Jimmy and I had become good friends and had already talked about,
you know, what we were going to, you know, do, how we were going to proceed.
You know, after that, we weren't just, I wasn't going back to Pratt and Whitney
(31:32):
and he wasn't going to, you know, we wanted to play, but when,
you know, when we, we knew it was over.
And so when it was over, you know, Jimmy and I
just started to pick up the pieces if you will absolutely and it's it's amazing
and very fitting that the final song on the final buffalo springfield album
is kind woman about your wife who you've been with for 57 years yes but uh this
(31:54):
is the song in which you jimmy and ultimately met rusty young to start poco,
absolutely absolutely absolutely incredible.
Any recollections of those first meetings with Rusty Young and how the three
of you, I know you were talking with Jimmy before, but you and Rusty ultimately
got in the fold to start the band?
(32:16):
Well, as we were talking about it, obviously, we thought that this was a good
song to be a catalyst to what we wanted to do.
I mean, it had a country feel to it.
And, you know, we were thinking about putting a steel guitar on the song.
A road manager suggested, hey, I know this steel guitar player,
a young guy back in Denver, and he's a friend, and he's the greatest steel guitar player in the world.
(32:40):
And Tim and I just said, okay, sight unseen.
What are we going to lose, man? We'll fly him out here and get him to play on the song.
And so when Rusty came, I guess his guitar never made it.
His steel guitar didn't make it for the time of the session.
So he used a steel guitar that he wasn't even comfortable with or whatever.
(33:01):
But I'll tell you what, that song now with him on it, you know,
has made a lot of an impact on a lot of people.
I know Dan Dugmore is on our documentary and Dan's a good friend of mine.
And he said, you know, hearing that on Kind Woman, he said, that's what made
me want to pick up the steel guitar.
But Jimmy and I, you know, as we're sitting there, we looked at each other and
(33:23):
said, yeah, this guy, let's see what we got.
Here and so we talked to rusty if he wanted to join the band
or actually start a band with us and he
said yes and so we were short a drummer and we were short a bass player and
the rust he said hey i got a drummer back in denver that's really good and he
sings good and plays good and so he invited george out and george became our
(33:48):
drummer and what a great asset to poco i mean I mean,
George was the unsung hero for sure of Poco.
He could just sing. He had a good ear.
And I mean, to play some of the parts that he played, he was a terrific drummer
and on. I love him so much. But so we had that.
And then we start auditioning bass players for Poco.
You know, after the band, you know, after, you know, last time around and Rusty
(34:11):
was on the record. And now we're starting a new band.
And the two bass players you interviewed were two legendary bass players.
Randy Meisner and Timothy B.
Schmidt. man Poco became the farm team for the space players man how do you
choose between one of these two guys it was difficult.
Because I think we auditioned. From my recollection, we auditioned them on the same day.
(34:35):
I don't know if that was 50 years ago. I can't really remember.
All I remember is I was going through a bunch of stuff that I had,
letters in a box someplace, and I was just going through it.
Oh, this is probably about five, six, seven years ago.
And I found this letter that Timothy wrote and he wrote back and said,
(34:56):
hey, thanks a lot for the opportunity to audition.
I know that you'll make the best choice possible, you know, but I just want
you to know that I really appreciate the opportunity that you gave me.
And so I got that letter. I got it framed and I sent it to him,
you know, because it probably fits in his up on his, you know,
whatever, as well as it does mine.
But there were there were some issues with a
(35:18):
couple guys well one guy in particular in the band that
really felt that you know they liked randy a lot better than
they liked timothy and so you know we gave
the you know and randy great and
talented and and just wonderful you know player and and singer and so it was
a hard choice but you know as time would have it when we were recording the
(35:40):
first album there became issues with randy wanting to sit in it's really It's
really difficult when you're recording, especially with Jimmy...
Not being able to he was an engineer and he you know because columbia had union people,
he couldn't put his hands on on the board to do mixing and it's very subtle
and very difficult and so if jimmy oh man i need this just here you know and
(36:05):
and if there's too much going on in the studio you know because somebody if
you're if me i'm sitting there well then i need my voice a a little higher.
I need this a little higher, you know, and then you got to pay.
So we just said, look, we got to get it to a certain point and then we'll let
everybody, you know, you know, voice their opinions and we'll take notes and
(36:27):
see what we do to readjust it, you know.
And Randy wasn't satisfied with that. And that's when he left.
And that's when we went, you know, I went up to Sacramento.
Timothy had gone back up to Sacramento and I, you know, we stopped in and Heard
him play one night and he knew why we were there.
He joined a band at that particular moment in time. And Timothy,
(36:47):
I've become great friends over the years.
I mean, he's played on as many of my solo projects as I can get him on.
And, you know, I've opened up for him when he's been doing solo things.
And he's just a really, really good friend. It seems like a very kind man.
Oh, sweet. He's one of the sweetest. and and
(37:08):
you know i find it interesting that time when you started poco that
la scene and i'm curious why and
how did it evolve into like a country rock scene because it wasn't just you
guys graham parsons was there doing stuff with the birds uh gene clark was doing
stuff with dillard and clark michael nesmith was doing his stuff uh yeah how
(37:29):
why was this country scene How did it evolve in Los Angeles?
And it doesn't seem natural. I have no idea other than, you know,
I guess everybody like myself, you know, there was well, Graham and I had talked
about putting a band together.
Tell me about that. When he came out to L.A., you know, he was he was working
(37:50):
with the birds and he was thinking about putting a band together.
And we talked about it and we just couldn't sort out, you know,
how we're going to split the people up. You know, I was very satisfied with
with who I had in the band and the band that I had.
And he was he was, too. But how are you going to change it around?
So it never it never did happen.
(38:10):
But if you talk to like Chris, he'll even tell you, man, we were a country band.
We weren't a country rock band. We played every country dive,
you know, out there in the Los Angeles area.
But, yeah, the birds was sweetheart of the rodeo. and Michael Nesbitt,
you know, he was, it was just something that was just.
Was germinating at the time in LA.
(38:34):
Now, I had written Child's Claim to Fame, which obviously was country and kind
woman, you know, which had a country feel to it.
So it was something that was in my heart, that kind of style of music anyway.
And so it was just evolving at the time. It's interesting that Poco had their
Picking Up the Pieces record.
We were working on it before the
(38:56):
the birds sweetheart of the rodeo actually came out and
and so you know but hey man you
gotta give them credit for what they did i mean chris had a lot
of bluegrass stuff going on with him and and uh
and also it was just there was just a scene that was happening and it was filling
a gap that was just supposed to happen at the time you know like doo-wop happened
(39:18):
back in new york one time and here we got some country stuff going now that's
really it's really cool stuff and on On that first Poco album,
you had What a Day, which I heard on a Buffalo Springfield box set.
There was a demo previous.
Were there any other songs that you had done for Poco, either live or thought
(39:38):
about doing, that were left over from the Springfield era?
Well, the only other one would have been My Kind of Love, which was a song that I still don't even...
Yeah, it was on, I think, one of the later Poco albums, but that was a song that I did.
And it's interesting the nitty-gritty dirt band did a country version
of that and i did kind of like i don't
(39:58):
know what kind of version of it because it was a it was a difficult
time in my life but i did a whole it was it was just it's funny how you can
take a song and one group will play it this way because i think the original
way did have a little more country to it that's why the dirt band picked it
up and played it on one of their albums but um i think that was the only one And on the box set,
(40:20):
What a Day, Stephen actually sang it, I think.
And that was really an honor for me to have him sing one of my songs,
you know? That was really cool. That was really cool.
And then I want to talk a little on Graham Parsons again from Crazy Eyes.
I've actually got that album right over here.
I was listening to it last night. All right. I love it. And I have a couple of questions.
(40:40):
One, Brass Buttons, which you cover on, which was released, I think,
right before Graham passed away and before Graham even put it on one of his own albums.
Did Graham know that you were covering this? Do you have any idea if he ever
heard your Poco version?
I don't know because he taught it to me when we were friends back in New York.
When we were both, you know, living in, you know, that's where I learned the song back then.
(41:02):
I thought, good golly, man, this is really a pretty interesting song,
you know, for a young guy like him to be writing.
And for years, I mean, I really didn't even know that it was about his mom.
You know, but I loved the song.
I thought the song was, it just really touched me, you know,
it was a really, really sweet song.
And I don't know that he, that he knew that I
(41:23):
was recording it or not i don't know
you do you do a beautiful job on it and then
crazy eyes which is also when we talk about mythology the
mythologies that that's also about graham parsons is that
well some aspects of it i definitely
i definitely stole you know i mean if you look ever you know speaking to graham
(41:44):
you could look in his eyes you know and he was they were kind of bushy and you
looked into him and you could see there was something weird in there you know
because graham Graham was a he was a he was an interesting kind of kind of guy.
I mean, and so I crazy eyes. And then I talked about, you know,
growing South Carolina pines where he grew up and this and that and the other.
So I guess you got to put some kind of connotation to the song had had something about a gram.
(42:10):
But it was a song that I had written years ago.
I mean, before it was ever recorded as just a simple little folk song.
And that's how we recorded it.
And Jack Richardson, who was the producer at the time, was working with Bob Ezrin.
And he said, let me let me send this to Bob and let him orchestrate this.
(42:31):
And I said, hey, have at it. Let's see what happens. And man,
it came back and it was like, wow, this is an epic. This was an epic.
Oh, yeah. It's so amazing. And rusty steel inside of it. it. Yeah.
Oh, just so beautiful. And then I find that second side of Crazy Eyes to be
just perfect with Magnolia, then the song that closes it, you do.
(42:54):
I just, I think it's tremendous. A great coda to your time with Poco as well, I feel.
Yeah. And Jack was a great guy to work with at the same time.
You know, we were looking for that. We kept looking for that producer that was
going to produce that hit record for us because he was, you know,
involved with the Guess Who back up in Canada, you know.
(43:14):
And, you know, I wanted Richie Podler to actually be the producer.
We finally got him for the first Salder, Hellman, Furet record. record
but yeah crazy eyes you know turned out
to be quite a classic and i think jack had a lot to do with
you know just the idea let me send this off to bob ezrin you
know the bobble he'll he'll give a he'll give
a little twist to it you know which would be cool and it was man we heard
(43:36):
it was like oh yeah really beautiful
and then you mentioned southern home and fury which is
your your next venture which changed your life
in the most maybe significant way tell me
tell me about how that impacted you beyond
music okay yeah i i became disillusioned
(43:57):
that poco was ever gonna you know me and at this point
it had changed from just let's just play the music and
have a good time till well i gotta take care of my family now so
that means i have to make some money doing this you know and and then
then you know i saw steven and neil you know
going to you know just phenomenal success and i'm
sitting back and man we're just laying there you know nothing's really
(44:17):
happening with poco and so that's when we got jack to
come in and record the the good feeling to
know album and we thought for sure that good feeling
to know was going to be a hit i mean there was i mean everybody when we recorded
the song when we released the song we thought it was going to be a hit and when
it just it didn't i don't know that it even hardly charted you know it just
(44:39):
left an emptiness in my in my heart and and so i came you know we've gone on
tour when when i first heard.
When it was just first released we were back doing every
suny back in new york man i mean it was like
every gymnasium you can imagine you know and we're on
our way to a gig and and the radio is on
and all of a sudden it was well i'm traveling down the road trying to listen
(45:02):
my load you know and it's like oh my gosh there's the eagles you know and it
just my heart just sank came home talked to david geffen and david basically
said well chris hillman's looking for something to do and J.D.
Souther is looking for something to do.
You know, why don't we just put together another Crosby, Stills,
and Nash? And I'm thinking...
That's all there is to it. That's all you have to do today. You know,
(45:24):
and anyway, Chris and J.D.
And I got together and and it was, you know, it was difficult.
Sometimes what looks good on paper doesn't always translate into reality.
Chris and J.D. and I are still friends. You know, I mean, obviously,
I've worked with Chris before and and and J.D.
(45:44):
Golly, man, I mean, just a great guy. And we're we're still friends.
But you know what it didn't connect and probably it
didn't connect because at the time I was having a crisis in
my life that I didn't even know was happening and part
of it happened when my wife became a Christian and
Chris wanted Al and Al Perkins he wanted Al Perkins in the band because he had
(46:06):
played with him in Manassas and Chris had the I mean Al had his little sticker
on his guitar that said Jesus is Lord and I said no no way man I don't want
this guy in the band because he'll He'll stop us from becoming,
you know, the success that I think, you know, and why?
He could have been anything, but he was a Christian. And why did that stop me,
you know, from wanting him in the band?
(46:28):
But anyway, he did get in the band. I became a believer.
And then Nancy and I separated after seven years of being married.
We separated for seven months.
And it was a struggle, you know, getting all of this together,
man. Man, I thought becoming a Christian, you had blue skies,
green lights and tops down weather, you know, and had, hey, no,
it's just life like everybody else, man.
(46:49):
You got to struggle with it. But we had the Lord to help us.
And without him, we wouldn't have made it.
But I basically said, you know what?
I'm done with I'm done with everything. The most important thing for me in my
life right now is my family and I got to get them back together.
And so we only made two records. We made a record right up at Caribou Ranch,
which at the time was only like maybe five miles away from my home.
(47:11):
With tommy dowd and it's like i don't even
remember making the record man my mind was so so exploded
away but it was a difficult time but it
was a great time you know i mean souther hillman furet could have probably been
a different a different band of course there was the the drama with jim gordon
you know i mean we had great guys and i mean paul harris on keyboard al on guitar
(47:34):
and dobro and banjo and every instrument
you can imagine he is a terrific player i mean You know, really.
And then Jimmy Gordon, who had three sets of drums going around L.A.
At the time, doing all these sessions, you know, and it just I don't know,
for Scott, for whatever reason, you know, just wasn't it wasn't going to happen, man. But.
But it seems like there was divine, you know, the fact that you ended up in
(47:56):
that place in that time with Al Perkins, that perhaps it would have been,
you know, you may not be married, you may not. That's right.
It feels like when I look at your story and I listen to your story,
there's a lot of these, like, you have to believe in God, you have to believe in something.
How do all these things line up? And it's pretty remarkable.
(48:19):
After that, you stopped doing music for a while and you were ministering.
What brought you back to music? music?
You know, it's interesting. I had a friend of mine who was a writer.
His name is Kenny Weisberg.
And he was a friend of mine back here. He was actually on KBCO on the radio,
(48:40):
as well as writing for the Boulder Camera.
And when Kenny left Colorado, he went out to San Diego and he was the promoter
at Humphreys by the Bay, the club out there.
And out of the clear blue, he called me one time and said, hey,
man, why don't you come out and do a concert out here?
Well, man, I said, Kenny, I haven't done anything, man, probably in seven, eight, nine years.
(49:03):
I don't know what, I'll find the perfect concert for you.
And so that was basically the starting of me putting bands together again.
That particular time, he had me come out with just my friend that I played with
for many, many, many years, whose name is also Scott, Scott Sellen.
We went out as a duo and opened up for Stephen.
(49:26):
And then the next thing we know, we have a little band. We're adding people
to the band, and we come out, and we open up for Emmylou Harris.
And then we headlined the thing ourselves one time.
And so just one thing just catapulted into the other, and I just started playing music again.
And it was something that I had to kind of balance my life because at that time
(49:48):
I had become a believer and I became a pastor.
And so, I mean, my life was like turning in one way and going the other way
and it was like, how do I balance all of this out?
You know, it became a challenge, particularly for the church.
But then again, you know, when I started Poco, Poco was too country for rock
(50:08):
and too rock for country.
And then I became a believer. And when I released my first record on Asylum
Records, my first solo album, it was too Christian for the world and too worldly
for the Christian, because you can't find the name of Jesus on that album anyplace.
But everything is about putting my life back together, you know,
with my wife and the Lord being instrumental in that.
(50:31):
So it was, it's, it's, that's part of the documentary, you know,
it's just like a crazy, crazy life story, man.
You put out a record a few years ago and are you, are you still writing music,
recording music or scoring at all?
I'm still writing music. I don't know how I just, I had to write a song for
the documentary that I, that I wrote. And I'm not one of these guys that is such a prolific writer.
(50:56):
And, you know, one of the producers of the documentary, Denny,
kept saying, man, we've got to have this song for the end of the doc.
You've got to have this song, you know. I said, Denny, you know, if it comes, it comes.
If it doesn't come, I can't force it, you know. And one day I'm riding in the
car and all of a sudden there it was.
And I put it down. And so I have recorded that at a friend's studio downtown. town.
(51:19):
And then I went out to hear John Jorgensen and his band, his bluegrass band.
Oh, I don't know, this was right after the first of the year.
And I just sat back there, man, in a little tiny place.
I mean, this guy, John's a number one, he's a phenomenal player,
but what a great, sweet guy, you know, and he helped put together the whole
(51:40):
thing with the Western, Western Edge.
We got a a big display in nashville at the country rock music
hall of fame out there now and and then
he's out playing with elton john and then he's playing at
this little tiny place called the the dairy theater or something back here in
boulder and we went down to hear him i'm just sitting there man and this just
brought a smile on my face and i i wrote a song called the bluegrass boys you
(52:04):
know came home and just wrote a song so i'm writing if it's for no one else
but me there you go man but I yeah.
Well Richie thank you so much for the time thank you for everything and the
legacy you've built is incredible,
thank you Scott I really appreciate it man thank you for listening to the Legends
(52:25):
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