If you don't see the challenges, then you'll never get a chance to work on them. - Tommy Rosen #QuoteoftheDay
In this episode of “My Love of Life Energy,” I am speaking with Tommy Rosen, founder of “Life Beyond Addiction.” Rosen discusses recovery as a pathway to personal and spiritual growth, drawing on his 30-year journey out of addiction. He shares how replacing substance dependence with personal values and spiritual strength can unlock profound potential. The episode features insights focusing on strategies to overcome addiction and lead a life marked by consciousness, joy, love, and authenticity. The discussion also highlights an upcoming conference from May 8th to 12th on living an extraordinary life post-addiction.
For more information on Tommy Rosen, visit https://LifeBeyondAddiction.com.
#MyLoveOfLifeEnergy #InsideOutUnderstanding
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
My Love of Life Energy is a podcast created by Anna Scott.
Anna knows that every human being sees life uniquely.
In this podcast, she will talk to people and learn from them.
These conversations are to shine the brilliance of each human being she speaks to.
(00:20):
Join her. After each exploration, you will expand on your insights and see truth and beauty.
Good morning and good afternoon. Welcome to my podcast, My Love of Life Energy.
And today I am so honored to have as my guest Tommy Rosen.
And Tommy is the creator of Life Beyond Addiction.
(00:44):
And when I met him, oh my God, when I met him and we dropped in together,
I felt a presence that I had never felt before and a power and a dignity.
And with that, Tommy, me. I'm just so honored to be speaking with you today. Thank you so much.
I'm honored. I'm honored to be here with you in this very moment.
(01:06):
And thank you for having me. I'm just delighted to get to connect a bit.
Yeah, that's what we did. My intention I wanted to do with this was that one
is I just felt the power and the love of what you're up to with your program
and what you've created on the website.
And it came from such a deep love of what you created.
(01:29):
And I wanted to, first of all, and then I wanted to support it.
Like I wanted this to go out, like I wanted like birds to be dropping seeds all over the universe.
I love that. Thank you. So how did Life Beyond Addiction come into being?
Yeah. So the Life Beyond Addiction conference, this conference that we're doing,
(01:51):
is born out of, well, suffering, actually.
It's the suffering of people who have decided to be on a path of recovery from addiction.
And so the important distinction there is I'm not even speaking about the suffering
(02:14):
of being in addiction, which is huge.
Huge but i'm speaking about the the
challenges that have to be navigated as
we move onto a path of recovery and we
live in this world today and make a decision for example to live without drugs
and alcohol well in a way that's a revolutionary act it's certainly an evolutionary
(02:39):
act and i've noticed from my own experience of coming into recovery and needing
to let go of drugs and alcohol.
And having done that over 30 years ago, my experience was, wow,
there's so many things to be.
Overcome the path of recovery itself. And we as a society are very much focused on the,
(03:05):
the horror of addiction and the struggle to get to that point when you are ready
to try to change, which is to say the first stage of recovery.
And no question, that's an important place to focus and put some time.
We do want to want to be helpful to everybody at that stage of their development.
(03:25):
And we don't want to forget about the whole rest of our life.
You know what I mean? Like, it's really important that we address those initial
days and weeks and months of sobriety of recovery.
It is so important. And there's no question that addiction brings such visceral pain with it.
(03:50):
And it sort of challenges everybody who is around it. But so,
yes, we have to pay attention to that.
And we want to be good at helping a person move through a bottom and launch
from that bottom into recovery.
And then we want to really start to look at practices, principles,
strategies, approaches one day at a time for the next stage of recovery,
(04:16):
and then the next stage of recovery, and then the next stage of recovery.
And it's the whole rest of our life. And we just haven't done a tremendous job
at focusing and looking at strategies for long-term recovery.
So that's why Life Beyond Addiction Conference.
But what you seem to be offering is what I just heard.
(04:41):
Like I heard the struggle to give up the addictions. And now that you're free,
then, then you're looking at a different kind of life and you're offering people
a different kind of life is what it seems.
Yes. So this is a really important conversation.
So let's, let's, let's dig in here.
You use the word free. And I'd say that there are shades of it,
(05:05):
degrees of it, levels of it.
So I worked the 12 steps when I first got sober. That means I had a sponsor.
This was a man who helped me to read through the book, helped me to understand
the ideas that were being presented, directed me to write certain assignments
(05:26):
and to do certain things that would would be helpful to me in recovery.
I went through the 12 steps with this man and I was delivered truly to a new
state of being from having done that work.
And in this new state, I was free from the desire to use drugs and alcohol.
(05:47):
And that was legitimate. That was real. I was literally free from it. There was no more fight.
There was no charge around it.
And I I'm now 30 years away from that time. And I can tell you that I've,
I never lost that freedom.
So now that's a miracle or, or that's extraordinary or that's wonderful or that's
(06:12):
awe inspiring or whatever the thing is.
That's boy, am I grateful to have had that experience, to have done the work
and to have had the guidance and to have had the outcome of doing that work. Okay.
In that newfound freedom, I would discover that the reasons for which I was
(06:34):
using drugs and alcohol in the first place had not been resolved.
So I wasn't free in the absolute sense.
I had been given freedom from the desire to use drugs and alcohol,
which we have to admit is a huge thing and necessary in order to do the next level of work.
(06:56):
And the next level of work for sure showed up.
Sorry. Good news, bad news. Yeah.
Well, the good news is it's there.
It's, it's, It's there to be done or you spend a lifetime avoiding it.
(07:16):
If you spend a lifetime avoiding it, you don't get to learn and grow.
Your experience of joy will be diminished.
Your fulfillment in this life will be diminished.
Not because I say so, but because that seems to be the way that it works here.
So the greatest news is that the challenges that need to be overcome,
(07:37):
they present themselves to you.
It is truly the greatest news because if you don't see them,
then you'll never get a chance to work on them.
And by getting a chance to work on them, you have a chance at fulfillment on
a daily basis. Not at the end of your life, but every day.
Because you're actually working on the things that you came here to work on.
(07:57):
And so that word free, I would apply here.
I'd say, well, I had, I had, I was experiencing in those early years of recovery,
the first decade say the freedom to explore life without drugs and alcohol and
to feel everything that I would feel as a person who was more conscious than I used to be.
(08:21):
And please note that I'm not calling myself at certainly at that point,
a conscious person, but I was more conscious than I used to be.
And that's good. That's a move in the right direction. That's great.
And maybe that's the best that any of us could hope for is a move in the right
direction and to just be continually doing that.
And so I just wanted to key in on this, on this word freedom,
(08:43):
because the whole concept of life beyond addiction, it, it, it expresses rest is a possibility.
It's an exploration of what would happen if I was actually present.
I wasn't chasing anything. I wasn't running from anything.
(09:06):
I experienced emotions like we all do. They came and they went.
I didn't get hung up on anything in particular.
I just woke up with a a general sense of gratitude.
And I did my work and my way of being in the world. And I did my best.
Surely I'll make mistakes and I'll learn from them still, but there was no hang up about it.
(09:28):
And there was no feeling of, wow, this is supposed to be another way.
There was an acceptance that there there's really beautiful things and really
challenging things in the world. And there was an understanding of that.
And then you would complete a day and you would go to bed at night,
essentially clean energetically and you could wake up and be blessed to do it again,
(09:49):
and and to go through the the joys and the challenges of being in league with a creator,
in league with energies that could create and
you would see yourself as a co-creator of your experience and you'd get to live
in a healthy body and a healthy mind and you would you know be in this extraordinary
(10:11):
creation in this world and help others to experience that same thing.
What would that be like? And then most people would hear that and say,
I don't think that's possible.
But I'm telling you it is possible, and I'm a living example of it,
(10:31):
and so many people are as well.
I'm hearing, if I can point to this, is this beautiful acceptance of humanity with grace and love.
I love it. Yes. Does that resonate?
100%. And the key word there is acceptance.
(10:54):
And, you know, I'm a work in progress like everybody.
And I say that because I can still be vulnerable to the energies of stuckness,
of getting hung up on something, an opinion,
a position i've decided to have you know an emotion i have that i i work to
(11:17):
justify why it's okay to keep this emotion around for a while you know if it's
anger we call it self-righteous anger well let me tell you why i'm angry i'll tell you why i'm angry.
You know yeah let me convince you that it's okay for me to remain angry for
(11:40):
a little while longer, you know, and we go through the world like that.
And we all of a sudden realize, wow, I don't feel so great.
So I'm not saying that those days aren't, and those, those vulnerabilities aren't
still there for me. What I'm saying is, um, I've seen beyond all that.
And I know that this is freedom and acceptance and gratitude and love and connection
(12:03):
are available to everybody equally.
And then it just becomes a question of, all right, how can we align ourself
to move in that direction? And that to me is recovery.
So now we're talking about advanced recovery, meaning we're no longer just talking
about recovery from the need to use drugs and alcohol or food or sex or relationships
(12:27):
or technology or whatever the thing is.
We're going way beyond that. We're saying, well, those are just behaviors.
And yes, we became habituated, addicted to those behaviors.
But beyond those behaviors, once we put those behaviors down, that's actually us now.
We're getting a more clear perspective on ourself and on our life.
(12:52):
And now this is where the work is going to happen. And we want to attain freedom here.
Freedom here, meaning freedom from the things that keep us stuck in our mind
and body and soul that are keeping us sort of stuck, stagnant.
And that's the work of advanced recovery.
(13:12):
It requires that you put down those initial addictions to get to do that work.
Or if you don't have those initial addictions, that's good. You can just do that work.
But here's the thing that's so interesting, Anna. There are people in this world
that do not desire to do this work.
(13:32):
They're not operating in this way. They're not seeing in this way.
They're not oriented in the way that I'm describing.
And it's just not a calling to them. It's not of interest to them.
They're meant to do other things, sincerely.
And it's not wrong. And I'm not right.
(13:54):
They're not right. And I'm not wrong. It's just there are so many ways to be
in so many different things that are needed.
And it's impossible for us to see the bigger picture. So as I am working towards
greater acceptance of myself,
also of other people, I have to understand that not everybody is meant to be
(14:16):
living the way I think I should be living.
And that creates a lot of space for tolerance, compassion, understanding, forgiveness.
You know, it's like, mind your own business.
You know what I mean? I do. Yeah.
(14:36):
Not in the, I don't even mean it in the mundane sense. I mean it in the spiritual sense.
Like really mind your own business.
Stay within your sphere of influence.
Do your work do your thing do what's calling you
to move through the world and let everybody else do
that too by the way unless they're you
(14:58):
know up overtly hurting somebody and this is where we get into sort of some
of the challenges in terms of tolerating other people's behavior when we and
when we envision it being harmful or dangerous this is very difficult complexities here but but
I think you get the general point is we're talking about advanced recovery,
(15:21):
life beyond addiction.
And so I, I, I spoke to 33 people for this conference, which is coming up on
May 8th through the 12th.
And I asked them, you know, questions about what does science say about this?
What are some of the methods that, that could lead someone to a life beyond addiction?
(15:41):
Is this something we should be working on? You know, why? why,
why, why are we struggling so badly?
Why are we not moving beyond addiction as it is?
Why do we need a conference like this in the first place? And,
and people, these 33 people were talking about scientists and doctors and authors
and thought leaders and yoga teachers and meditation experts.
(16:04):
They had some extraordinary things to say, and they had some,
wonderful strategies to offer for helping us to be more effective at moving
into this next stage of what could it look like after I put down the initial addictions.
Addictions which this world is working 24-7 to get me to pick up.
(16:28):
How do I put them down, you know? And when I do put them down,
what then? That's really the point. What then?
What now? What's next? I do not want to be a person in recovery who defines
himself by the thing that he can no longer do.
I'm an addict. I'm an alcoholic. That means that I wish I could be drinking, but I can't.
(16:51):
Or maybe I've really gotten over it and I don't wish I would be drinking anymore.
And I'm so grateful not to be, why would I call myself an addict then or an alcoholic?
So there's a lot of confusion also around language, but for sure,
we want to define ourself and be identified with what's really true.
And it is not really true in my nature that I'm an addict alcoholic.
(17:16):
And so I wouldn't want to define myself that way.
Although it's something that I did experience. It's not something that I am.
Does that make sense? Oh, my God. More than you know.
Because you just said something really about, it's not my nature,
(17:37):
but it's what I experienced.
And those are, to me, if you could talk more about that, because that to me
is a goldmine. is a goldmine. Yes.
So it could be said from a certain perspective that all addiction comes from an identity crisis.
(17:57):
So I don't know who I am really.
And so I'm at a disconnection from my own truth and it's painful.
It's painful not to know. It's painful not to be connected with yourself.
And in the, in the not knowing your true nature, yourself, your true self,
(18:19):
what you are, how you are, who you are really.
I think we all go out into the world looking and we go out into that world and
we look, you know, we, we look wherever the world sort of encourages us to look
and wherever we're drawn to, you know?
So for some reason, I was drawn to cannabis at 13 years old.
(18:46):
It really, really grabbed me and worked for me.
It got deep into my spirit and like, really like I loved it.
And that's where I went.
And that was my solution. And that became my identity.
That became the thing around which I identified myself.
(19:08):
Now, even people who love their cannabis would hear me say that and say,
yeah, I don't think that's such a good idea.
I think if you were truthful with yourself and you said, all right, I love my cannabis.
I love my cannabis every day, but I can see that it's probably not a good idea
for me to identify as that.
(19:29):
Like what I am is a, is a cannabis smoker, cannabis grower, cannabis seller,
cannabis buyer, like my whole world revolving around that.
Not a good idea, not sustainable and
also not leading to a person's joy
and a person's freedom and i think we
look out in the world for whatever it is you
(19:52):
know we get caught in our careers we get
caught in our relationships don't get me wrong our careers and our relationships
are beautiful wonderful important things but they're not things that are our
identity they're things that having established connection with our true self
and go out and get to do these things.
(20:15):
We're gifted to do these things from a place of awareness and consciousness.
Oh, I'm, I'm a postal worker. I'm, I'm a janitor. I'm, I'm a lawyer.
I'm, it doesn't matter if it's coming from the truth. It's love.
(20:41):
You know, it just, and you know, I think of so many people who have been guided,
I would say they've allowed themselves to be misguided, maybe by their parents or by their peer group.
And they end up doing things in the world that they feel they're supposed to do.
(21:02):
And maybe it will work out, but it's not really, it's not really their heart's
desire, you know? And so maybe they even have success doing something.
Like I'm thinking of a friend who's a very successful financial guy, a money manager.
And he's really great at what he does. He serves a lot of people and he helps a lot of people.
(21:24):
But the truth is, is that it's not something that he loves to do.
Now, he's financially incredibly well off and he's got a lot of freedom because
that kind of freedom from having money.
But in his heart of hearts, he's not on point for himself.
(21:45):
And it's okay, and it's not okay.
And it's not for me to say one way or the other. But you see,
I think where our success lies is in coming from love and coming from truth
and establishing a real connection to what we actually are.
And what we actually are is pure light, pure love, and pure awareness.
(22:13):
We are pure consciousness itself, connected to all of it.
I am in a frame that looks like this.
I'm in this frame, I would say I'm 56 years old.
I'm male. I identify that way.
I've got the history that I've got The relationships that I've got I eat the food that I eat.
(22:38):
I do the things that I do I have a name that people call me by in this world,
And I know That all of that is role playing And it's okay Nothing wrong with that.
I want to play that role very well I want to be tommy rosen really well.
This is what I get to be while i'm playing the role, I don't want to lose track of what I am at my core.
(23:03):
If I can do that, then I'm in that golden territory of awareness presence.
And everything that happens for me, through me, doesn't have a hangover to it.
(23:24):
On any level. Well said. I'm not leaving...
Unfinished business behind me with each decision, each breath,
each thing that I do. We will call that unfinished business karma.
So lightness of being coming from
connection with self coming from understanding and all of these things.
(23:49):
And it's a one day at a time process. It's not an event.
It's a, it's a journey and the journey never ends. Never.
And it won't end when this body ends either.
I mean, what I see your invitation is for people to discover the truth of who
(24:09):
they are and live from that truth,
to reconnect to the love of who they are and live from that place experience
by experience by experience.
Yes, exactly. That's what I see you're offering.
Yes, and I'm inviting anybody who is in a doubtful state to come in and explore
(24:33):
that and don't wait a second longer,
because those are the people that i most want to connect with
i was i was speaking the other day to i was just putting out a video actually
i'm speaking to camera like this and in the video i was speaking about cannabis
because it was 4 20 it was april 20th and that's this you know this unspoken
(24:57):
holiday for the sacrament of, of cannabis.
And what I said was, if you are smoking pot using cannabis and you love it, it's working for you.
You just love it. And you, you don't want to give it up. And you,
you, you're just really grateful to have it in your life. I celebrate you.
(25:21):
But the person who has started to doubt.
This person who has had thoughts come into their head,
like, I wonder what would happen if I put this down for a month or,
you know, or I feel, I, I feel I really need to put this down for a month,
(25:42):
but I'm having a hard time doing it, you know, or a year or whatever.
What would it be like if I could stop doing this for a year? Wow.
Like I feel like so much could happen if I only, I could do it.
So there's this doubt. There's this inner conflict that started for that person.
I want to talk to that person. They're the ones because that doubt is not a voice of negativity.
(26:08):
That's their soul. That's their heart speaking to them, asking them to go on
an evolutionary journey.
And for the evolutionary journey, you have to put this down.
Not because I said so or anyone else said so, because you are starting to,
to, to say so to yourself, you cannot, it can no longer be avoided.
(26:30):
And, and unfortunately, when people come to me and they say,
you know, do you think I should stop?
And before they even tell me what it is they they're thinking about stopping,
I'm like, yes, if you can come to me and ask that question, the answer is yes.
Do I, do I, do I think you should stop smoking pot?
If you come to me with that question, That means you have asked yourself that
(26:52):
question. And the answer is yes.
And it will never go away until you do.
It will continue to work on you.
I laugh out of knowing I've been there so many days of my life stuck in that
(27:12):
kind of thinking and the inner conflict that comes from it and just recognizing my God.
I'm in conflict with myself. could there be anything more painful?
That's beautiful, Tom. You're pointing to people's capacity to listen to the
wisdom that's inside themselves.
(27:34):
Yes, and you can doubt an action that you're taking.
And when the question formulates in your head, don't doubt that.
Yeah, that's beautiful. Listen to that.
We were coming at the end, which I can't believe. And you're,
I really want to make sure we put this out there about your upcoming program
(27:56):
and where people can find it.
Sure. So will you plug in on this? It'll be all in the bio, but I really want
to make sure this gets to the people who want to hear it. Okay.
So this is the life beyond addiction conference. It is online.
It is completely free to attend. It consists of five days from May 8th through the 12th.
(28:20):
And each day we put up six or seven videos and they stay up for 24 hours.
So at 6 a.m. Pacific time, the new set of videos for that particular day will
go up and the previous day's videos will be taken down.
And so what I ask people to do who are interested, first of all,
(28:40):
register register, you can watch no matter where you are, what time zone or what your schedule is.
Each set, each day's videos are up for 24 hours. So you have plenty of time to get through them.
You may not want to watch all of them when you, when you'll see who the speaker
is and what the topic is, something will call to you.
Try to get to at least one a day.
(29:03):
My thought is, is if you watch one, you'll probably watch two or three, maybe more.
These are profound discussions about this topic of how to live an extraordinary life, really.
And so it's free to attend. You just register at lifebeyondaddiction.com.
That's all. And then come join us on May 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th.
(29:27):
And that's really the deal there.
The lineup of speakers is extraordinary. I'm not even going to start to get
into it. Just go to the page and you'll see.
You'll see the full lineup and an explanation of what we spoke about and what
we're doing again it's lifebeyondaddiction.com it's beautiful thank you tommy
(29:47):
for your time it's been an honor my goodness anna thank you so much.
Music.
My Love of Life Energy is a podcast created by Anna Scott.
Anna knows that every human being sees life uniquely.
In this podcast, she will talk to people and learn from them.
These conversations are to shine the brilliance of each human being she speaks to.
(00:20):
Join her. After each exploration, you will expand on your insights and see truth and beauty.
Good morning and good afternoon. Welcome to my podcast, My Love of Life Energy.
And today I am so honored to have as my guest Tommy Rosen.
And Tommy is the creator of Life Beyond Addiction.
(00:44):
And when I met him, oh my God, when I met him and we dropped in together,
I felt a presence that I had never felt before and a power and a dignity.
And with that, Tommy, me. I'm just so honored to be speaking with you today. Thank you so much.
I'm honored. I'm honored to be here with you in this very moment.
(01:06):
And thank you for having me. I'm just delighted to get to connect a bit.
Yeah, that's what we did. My intention I wanted to do with this was that one
is I just felt the power and the love of what you're up to with your program
and what you've created on the website.
And it came from such a deep love of what you created.
(01:29):
And I wanted to, first of all, and then I wanted to support it.
Like I wanted this to go out, like I wanted like birds to be dropping seeds all over the universe.
I love that. Thank you. So how did Life Beyond Addiction come into being?
Yeah. So the Life Beyond Addiction conference, this conference that we're doing,
(01:51):
is born out of, well, suffering, actually.
It's the suffering of people who have decided to be on a path of recovery from addiction.
And so the important distinction there is I'm not even speaking about the suffering
(02:14):
of being in addiction, which is huge.
Huge but i'm speaking about the the
challenges that have to be navigated as
we move onto a path of recovery and we
live in this world today and make a decision for example to live without drugs
and alcohol well in a way that's a revolutionary act it's certainly an evolutionary
(02:39):
act and i've noticed from my own experience of coming into recovery and needing
to let go of drugs and alcohol.
And having done that over 30 years ago, my experience was, wow,
there's so many things to be.
Overcome the path of recovery itself. And we as a society are very much focused on the,
(03:05):
the horror of addiction and the struggle to get to that point when you are ready
to try to change, which is to say the first stage of recovery.
And no question, that's an important place to focus and put some time.
We do want to want to be helpful to everybody at that stage of their development.
(03:25):
And we don't want to forget about the whole rest of our life.
You know what I mean? Like, it's really important that we address those initial
days and weeks and months of sobriety of recovery.
It is so important. And there's no question that addiction brings such visceral pain with it.
(03:50):
And it sort of challenges everybody who is around it. But so,
yes, we have to pay attention to that.
And we want to be good at helping a person move through a bottom and launch
from that bottom into recovery.
And then we want to really start to look at practices, principles,
strategies, approaches one day at a time for the next stage of recovery,
(04:16):
and then the next stage of recovery, and then the next stage of recovery.
And it's the whole rest of our life. And we just haven't done a tremendous job
at focusing and looking at strategies for long-term recovery.
So that's why Life Beyond Addiction Conference.
But what you seem to be offering is what I just heard.
(04:41):
Like I heard the struggle to give up the addictions. And now that you're free,
then, then you're looking at a different kind of life and you're offering people
a different kind of life is what it seems.
Yes. So this is a really important conversation.
So let's, let's, let's dig in here.
You use the word free. And I'd say that there are shades of it,
(05:05):
degrees of it, levels of it.
So I worked the 12 steps when I first got sober. That means I had a sponsor.
This was a man who helped me to read through the book, helped me to understand
the ideas that were being presented, directed me to write certain assignments
(05:26):
and to do certain things that would would be helpful to me in recovery.
I went through the 12 steps with this man and I was delivered truly to a new
state of being from having done that work.
And in this new state, I was free from the desire to use drugs and alcohol.
(05:47):
And that was legitimate. That was real. I was literally free from it. There was no more fight.
There was no charge around it.
And I I'm now 30 years away from that time. And I can tell you that I've,
I never lost that freedom.
So now that's a miracle or, or that's extraordinary or that's wonderful or that's
(06:12):
awe inspiring or whatever the thing is.
That's boy, am I grateful to have had that experience, to have done the work
and to have had the guidance and to have had the outcome of doing that work. Okay.
In that newfound freedom, I would discover that the reasons for which I was
(06:34):
using drugs and alcohol in the first place had not been resolved.
So I wasn't free in the absolute sense.
I had been given freedom from the desire to use drugs and alcohol,
which we have to admit is a huge thing and necessary in order to do the next level of work.
(06:56):
And the next level of work for sure showed up.
Sorry. Good news, bad news. Yeah.
Well, the good news is it's there.
It's, it's, It's there to be done or you spend a lifetime avoiding it.
(07:16):
If you spend a lifetime avoiding it, you don't get to learn and grow.
Your experience of joy will be diminished.
Your fulfillment in this life will be diminished.
Not because I say so, but because that seems to be the way that it works here.
So the greatest news is that the challenges that need to be overcome,
(07:37):
they present themselves to you.
It is truly the greatest news because if you don't see them,
then you'll never get a chance to work on them.
And by getting a chance to work on them, you have a chance at fulfillment on
a daily basis. Not at the end of your life, but every day.
Because you're actually working on the things that you came here to work on.
(07:57):
And so that word free, I would apply here.
I'd say, well, I had, I had, I was experiencing in those early years of recovery,
the first decade say the freedom to explore life without drugs and alcohol and
to feel everything that I would feel as a person who was more conscious than I used to be.
(08:21):
And please note that I'm not calling myself at certainly at that point,
a conscious person, but I was more conscious than I used to be.
And that's good. That's a move in the right direction. That's great.
And maybe that's the best that any of us could hope for is a move in the right
direction and to just be continually doing that.
And so I just wanted to key in on this, on this word freedom,
(08:43):
because the whole concept of life beyond addiction, it, it, it expresses rest is a possibility.
It's an exploration of what would happen if I was actually present.
I wasn't chasing anything. I wasn't running from anything.
(09:06):
I experienced emotions like we all do. They came and they went.
I didn't get hung up on anything in particular.
I just woke up with a a general sense of gratitude.
And I did my work and my way of being in the world. And I did my best.
Surely I'll make mistakes and I'll learn from them still, but there was no hang up about it.
(09:28):
And there was no feeling of, wow, this is supposed to be another way.
There was an acceptance that there there's really beautiful things and really
challenging things in the world. And there was an understanding of that.
And then you would complete a day and you would go to bed at night,
essentially clean energetically and you could wake up and be blessed to do it again,
(09:49):
and and to go through the the joys and the challenges of being in league with a creator,
in league with energies that could create and
you would see yourself as a co-creator of your experience and you'd get to live
in a healthy body and a healthy mind and you would you know be in this extraordinary
(10:11):
creation in this world and help others to experience that same thing.
What would that be like? And then most people would hear that and say,
I don't think that's possible.
But I'm telling you it is possible, and I'm a living example of it,
(10:31):
and so many people are as well.
I'm hearing, if I can point to this, is this beautiful acceptance of humanity with grace and love.
I love it. Yes. Does that resonate?
100%. And the key word there is acceptance.
(10:54):
And, you know, I'm a work in progress like everybody.
And I say that because I can still be vulnerable to the energies of stuckness,
of getting hung up on something, an opinion,
a position i've decided to have you know an emotion i have that i i work to
(11:17):
justify why it's okay to keep this emotion around for a while you know if it's
anger we call it self-righteous anger well let me tell you why i'm angry i'll tell you why i'm angry.
You know yeah let me convince you that it's okay for me to remain angry for
(11:40):
a little while longer, you know, and we go through the world like that.
And we all of a sudden realize, wow, I don't feel so great.
So I'm not saying that those days aren't, and those, those vulnerabilities aren't
still there for me. What I'm saying is, um, I've seen beyond all that.
And I know that this is freedom and acceptance and gratitude and love and connection
(12:03):
are available to everybody equally.
And then it just becomes a question of, all right, how can we align ourself
to move in that direction? And that to me is recovery.
So now we're talking about advanced recovery, meaning we're no longer just talking
about recovery from the need to use drugs and alcohol or food or sex or relationships
(12:27):
or technology or whatever the thing is.
We're going way beyond that. We're saying, well, those are just behaviors.
And yes, we became habituated, addicted to those behaviors.
But beyond those behaviors, once we put those behaviors down, that's actually us now.
We're getting a more clear perspective on ourself and on our life.
(12:52):
And now this is where the work is going to happen. And we want to attain freedom here.
Freedom here, meaning freedom from the things that keep us stuck in our mind
and body and soul that are keeping us sort of stuck, stagnant.
And that's the work of advanced recovery.
(13:12):
It requires that you put down those initial addictions to get to do that work.
Or if you don't have those initial addictions, that's good. You can just do that work.
But here's the thing that's so interesting, Anna. There are people in this world
that do not desire to do this work.
(13:32):
They're not operating in this way. They're not seeing in this way.
They're not oriented in the way that I'm describing.
And it's just not a calling to them. It's not of interest to them.
They're meant to do other things, sincerely.
And it's not wrong. And I'm not right.
(13:54):
They're not right. And I'm not wrong. It's just there are so many ways to be
in so many different things that are needed.
And it's impossible for us to see the bigger picture. So as I am working towards
greater acceptance of myself,
also of other people, I have to understand that not everybody is meant to be
(14:16):
living the way I think I should be living.
And that creates a lot of space for tolerance, compassion, understanding, forgiveness.
You know, it's like, mind your own business.
You know what I mean? I do. Yeah.
(14:36):
Not in the, I don't even mean it in the mundane sense. I mean it in the spiritual sense.
Like really mind your own business.
Stay within your sphere of influence.
Do your work do your thing do what's calling you
to move through the world and let everybody else do
that too by the way unless they're you
(14:58):
know up overtly hurting somebody and this is where we get into sort of some
of the challenges in terms of tolerating other people's behavior when we and
when we envision it being harmful or dangerous this is very difficult complexities here but but
I think you get the general point is we're talking about advanced recovery,
(15:21):
life beyond addiction.
And so I, I, I spoke to 33 people for this conference, which is coming up on
May 8th through the 12th.
And I asked them, you know, questions about what does science say about this?
What are some of the methods that, that could lead someone to a life beyond addiction?
(15:41):
Is this something we should be working on? You know, why? why,
why, why are we struggling so badly?
Why are we not moving beyond addiction as it is?
Why do we need a conference like this in the first place? And,
and people, these 33 people were talking about scientists and doctors and authors
and thought leaders and yoga teachers and meditation experts.
(16:04):
They had some extraordinary things to say, and they had some,
wonderful strategies to offer for helping us to be more effective at moving
into this next stage of what could it look like after I put down the initial addictions.
Addictions which this world is working 24-7 to get me to pick up.
(16:28):
How do I put them down, you know? And when I do put them down,
what then? That's really the point. What then?
What now? What's next? I do not want to be a person in recovery who defines
himself by the thing that he can no longer do.
I'm an addict. I'm an alcoholic. That means that I wish I could be drinking, but I can't.
(16:51):
Or maybe I've really gotten over it and I don't wish I would be drinking anymore.
And I'm so grateful not to be, why would I call myself an addict then or an alcoholic?
So there's a lot of confusion also around language, but for sure,
we want to define ourself and be identified with what's really true.
And it is not really true in my nature that I'm an addict alcoholic.
(17:16):
And so I wouldn't want to define myself that way.
Although it's something that I did experience. It's not something that I am.
Does that make sense? Oh, my God. More than you know.
Because you just said something really about, it's not my nature,
(17:37):
but it's what I experienced.
And those are, to me, if you could talk more about that, because that to me
is a goldmine. is a goldmine. Yes.
So it could be said from a certain perspective that all addiction comes from an identity crisis.
(17:57):
So I don't know who I am really.
And so I'm at a disconnection from my own truth and it's painful.
It's painful not to know. It's painful not to be connected with yourself.
And in the, in the not knowing your true nature, yourself, your true self,
(18:19):
what you are, how you are, who you are really.
I think we all go out into the world looking and we go out into that world and
we look, you know, we, we look wherever the world sort of encourages us to look
and wherever we're drawn to, you know?
So for some reason, I was drawn to cannabis at 13 years old.
(18:46):
It really, really grabbed me and worked for me.
It got deep into my spirit and like, really like I loved it.
And that's where I went.
And that was my solution. And that became my identity.
That became the thing around which I identified myself.
(19:08):
Now, even people who love their cannabis would hear me say that and say,
yeah, I don't think that's such a good idea.
I think if you were truthful with yourself and you said, all right, I love my cannabis.
I love my cannabis every day, but I can see that it's probably not a good idea
for me to identify as that.
(19:29):
Like what I am is a, is a cannabis smoker, cannabis grower, cannabis seller,
cannabis buyer, like my whole world revolving around that.
Not a good idea, not sustainable and
also not leading to a person's joy
and a person's freedom and i think we
look out in the world for whatever it is you
(19:52):
know we get caught in our careers we get
caught in our relationships don't get me wrong our careers and our relationships
are beautiful wonderful important things but they're not things that are our
identity they're things that having established connection with our true self
and go out and get to do these things.
(20:15):
We're gifted to do these things from a place of awareness and consciousness.
Oh, I'm, I'm a postal worker. I'm, I'm a janitor. I'm, I'm a lawyer.
I'm, it doesn't matter if it's coming from the truth. It's love.
(20:41):
You know, it just, and you know, I think of so many people who have been guided,
I would say they've allowed themselves to be misguided, maybe by their parents or by their peer group.
And they end up doing things in the world that they feel they're supposed to do.
(21:02):
And maybe it will work out, but it's not really, it's not really their heart's
desire, you know? And so maybe they even have success doing something.
Like I'm thinking of a friend who's a very successful financial guy, a money manager.
And he's really great at what he does. He serves a lot of people and he helps a lot of people.
(21:24):
But the truth is, is that it's not something that he loves to do.
Now, he's financially incredibly well off and he's got a lot of freedom because
that kind of freedom from having money.
But in his heart of hearts, he's not on point for himself.
(21:45):
And it's okay, and it's not okay.
And it's not for me to say one way or the other. But you see,
I think where our success lies is in coming from love and coming from truth
and establishing a real connection to what we actually are.
And what we actually are is pure light, pure love, and pure awareness.
(22:13):
We are pure consciousness itself, connected to all of it.
I am in a frame that looks like this.
I'm in this frame, I would say I'm 56 years old.
I'm male. I identify that way.
I've got the history that I've got The relationships that I've got I eat the food that I eat.
(22:38):
I do the things that I do I have a name that people call me by in this world,
And I know That all of that is role playing And it's okay Nothing wrong with that.
I want to play that role very well I want to be tommy rosen really well.
This is what I get to be while i'm playing the role, I don't want to lose track of what I am at my core.
(23:03):
If I can do that, then I'm in that golden territory of awareness presence.
And everything that happens for me, through me, doesn't have a hangover to it.
(23:24):
On any level. Well said. I'm not leaving...
Unfinished business behind me with each decision, each breath,
each thing that I do. We will call that unfinished business karma.
So lightness of being coming from
connection with self coming from understanding and all of these things.
(23:49):
And it's a one day at a time process. It's not an event.
It's a, it's a journey and the journey never ends. Never.
And it won't end when this body ends either.
I mean, what I see your invitation is for people to discover the truth of who
(24:09):
they are and live from that truth,
to reconnect to the love of who they are and live from that place experience
by experience by experience.
Yes, exactly. That's what I see you're offering.
Yes, and I'm inviting anybody who is in a doubtful state to come in and explore
(24:33):
that and don't wait a second longer,
because those are the people that i most want to connect with
i was i was speaking the other day to i was just putting out a video actually
i'm speaking to camera like this and in the video i was speaking about cannabis
because it was 4 20 it was april 20th and that's this you know this unspoken
(24:57):
holiday for the sacrament of, of cannabis.
And what I said was, if you are smoking pot using cannabis and you love it, it's working for you.
You just love it. And you, you don't want to give it up. And you,
you, you're just really grateful to have it in your life. I celebrate you.
(25:21):
But the person who has started to doubt.
This person who has had thoughts come into their head,
like, I wonder what would happen if I put this down for a month or,
you know, or I feel, I, I feel I really need to put this down for a month,
(25:42):
but I'm having a hard time doing it, you know, or a year or whatever.
What would it be like if I could stop doing this for a year? Wow.
Like I feel like so much could happen if I only, I could do it.
So there's this doubt. There's this inner conflict that started for that person.
I want to talk to that person. They're the ones because that doubt is not a voice of negativity.
(26:08):
That's their soul. That's their heart speaking to them, asking them to go on
an evolutionary journey.
And for the evolutionary journey, you have to put this down.
Not because I said so or anyone else said so, because you are starting to,
to, to say so to yourself, you cannot, it can no longer be avoided.
(26:30):
And, and unfortunately, when people come to me and they say,
you know, do you think I should stop?
And before they even tell me what it is they they're thinking about stopping,
I'm like, yes, if you can come to me and ask that question, the answer is yes.
Do I, do I, do I think you should stop smoking pot?
If you come to me with that question, That means you have asked yourself that
(26:52):
question. And the answer is yes.
And it will never go away until you do.
It will continue to work on you.
I laugh out of knowing I've been there so many days of my life stuck in that
(27:12):
kind of thinking and the inner conflict that comes from it and just recognizing my God.
I'm in conflict with myself. could there be anything more painful?
That's beautiful, Tom. You're pointing to people's capacity to listen to the
wisdom that's inside themselves.
(27:34):
Yes, and you can doubt an action that you're taking.
And when the question formulates in your head, don't doubt that.
Yeah, that's beautiful. Listen to that.
We were coming at the end, which I can't believe. And you're,
I really want to make sure we put this out there about your upcoming program
(27:56):
and where people can find it.
Sure. So will you plug in on this? It'll be all in the bio, but I really want
to make sure this gets to the people who want to hear it. Okay.
So this is the life beyond addiction conference. It is online.
It is completely free to attend. It consists of five days from May 8th through the 12th.
(28:20):
And each day we put up six or seven videos and they stay up for 24 hours.
So at 6 a.m. Pacific time, the new set of videos for that particular day will
go up and the previous day's videos will be taken down.
And so what I ask people to do who are interested, first of all,
(28:40):
register register, you can watch no matter where you are, what time zone or what your schedule is.
Each set, each day's videos are up for 24 hours. So you have plenty of time to get through them.
You may not want to watch all of them when you, when you'll see who the speaker
is and what the topic is, something will call to you.
Try to get to at least one a day.
(29:03):
My thought is, is if you watch one, you'll probably watch two or three, maybe more.
These are profound discussions about this topic of how to live an extraordinary life, really.
And so it's free to attend. You just register at lifebeyondaddiction.com.
That's all. And then come join us on May 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th.
(29:27):
And that's really the deal there.
The lineup of speakers is extraordinary. I'm not even going to start to get
into it. Just go to the page and you'll see.
You'll see the full lineup and an explanation of what we spoke about and what
we're doing again it's lifebeyondaddiction.com it's beautiful thank you tommy
(29:47):
for your time it's been an honor my goodness anna thank you so much.
Music.
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