May 7, 2024 • 38 mins
For about 60 years, a chilling story about a murder suicide was a tight lipped family secret until author and journalist Joe Strupp came across the tale of his great uncle, John Bowman. Strupp spent years investigating the case and his findings are in his new book Death on St. Charles Street. Though we know what happened, there are still mysterious aspects of this tragedy.
Strupp also addresses the unsolved murder that is the basis of his other true crime book, A Long Walk Home.
Find the book here: http://joestrupp.com/, https://shorturl.at/cptQY
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Warning.
This episode contains detailsthat some listeners
may find disturbing.
For about 60 years.
A chilling story was a tight lippedfamily secret.
In 1962, in Rapid City, South Dakota,
in the dead of night, John Bowmancarried out an unthinkable act.
(00:21):
He took the lives of his wifeand two of their children
before turning the gun on himself.
He did not leave a suicidenote in his motives are still a mystery.
Not many people in the familyknew about this story until author
and journalist Jo Strep came acrossthe tale of his great uncle, John Bowman.
And Strub spent yearsinvestigating the case And his findings
(00:45):
are in his new book, Death on StCharles Street.
Today, Joe Strubjoins us talk about the book
and investigating true crime.
This is a study of strange.
(01:14):
Welcome to the show.
Michael.
May your host into, well,all sorts of strangeness.
Today is a special episode,because while I normally share
a strange story with the guest today,I have a special guest
who's going to talk to meabout some strange stories.
I have with me author and journalistJoe Strap.
Hi, Joe. How are you doing?
of course.
I'm very excited to have you.
(01:34):
You've been a journalist for a long time.
You've written
four books, two of which kind of fitthe genre of the show, which are
true crime books, a Long Walk Home,which I believe is an unsolved murder.
Is that right? Yes.
And your most recent book, Death on SaintCharles Street
Sure.
(02:10):
Sure.
The book is, as you said, Death on SaintCharles Street.
It concerns a quadruple murder suicide
that occurred in 1962 in Rapid City,South Dakota,
which is where my grandmothers from,my grandmother, Peggy Snyder.
She was one of six children.
And that's three girls and three boys
(02:31):
and one of her sisters.
Alberta was marriedto a man named John Bowman.
They lived in Rapid City
while the rest of the siblingseventually moved away.
So her one one of hertwo sisters was married to this man.
They had three children.
And one day in 1962, he killedtwo of the children and his wife.
(02:54):
My grandmother's sister and himself
in a multiple murder suicide.
The third son was not at home.
He was away at college.
Otherwise, he probablywould have been involved as well.
And they were basically found deadin their home on a Sunday morning
by two guests who happenedto be staying over in the basement.
(03:15):
He apparently let them live.
And there was always a mysteryas to why he was not a violent man.
He had never made any kind of threats.
He was, however, sufferingfrom different kinds of mental illness,
depression,anxieties, some some paranoia.
And he had actually been in and outof a mental hospital.
And I was able to actually get recordsfrom the state hospital
(03:37):
there in South Dakota.
But all this happened on a Sunday morningin 1962, and I was not even born yet.
So I did not hear about ituntil about 20 years ago.
I was at a family reunionand my aunt was showing
slides and home movies
and she was pointing out different people,You know, this is your Aunt Dorothy,
(04:00):
this is your Uncle Morris,This is this person.
And then there was one woman
I had never seen, and she said, that's your Aunt Alberta.
And I said, did I ever wouldI have never known her.
And she said, No,she died before you were born.
And I said,
And then my
wife actually piped up and said,How did she die?
(04:21):
And the room got kind of quiet.
And my aunt then said, Well,she was murdered.
And I was like a light bulb in my reporterhead went off murder.
You know, I never, never had any relativesthat had that kind of death.
And so I started asking questions.
And then over the years,I kept wanting to find out about her.
(04:43):
And then in about 20,
2016, I started working on my first truecrime book
called A Long Walk Home,which is about an unsolved murder.
As you mentioned, of a 17 yearold high school student in Maplewood,
New Jersey, which is where I used to live.
And I started working on that.
(05:03):
And that came out two years ago.
A woman had been strangled
and she had just been on her way homefrom work, this student.
And she never made it.
She was last seenleaving her job at a diner, walking home.
And then an hour later,
her body was found strangled in a drivewayabout half mile away.
(05:24):
And there's never been any suspects,never any arrests.
And I wrote extensivelyabout that element.
I also found her
sister, who was only 11 at the time,who was a big part of the book.
So I did that bookand I really enjoyed doing it.
I liked lookinginto the criminology of it.
I liked looking into the background
(05:45):
So after that was done,
I said, Well,
let me look back at this casein my family.
And so I started with newspaper clippingsat the time, which were very extensive,
and that led to informationabout people who knew the family.
It was basically the mother andthe father, my great uncle, my great aunt,
(06:05):
the great aunt being my grandmother'ssister and their three children.
And I was able to track downpeople who knew them,
And also my mother and her two sistershad known a lot about the family.
They gave me insights into the funeralsand when they heard about these killings.
And then I was also ableto get mental health records
(06:26):
from my great uncleat a state hospital in South Dakota.
And that really helped piece it togetherbecause he had suffered from depression.
He had suffered from anxiety.
He had been in and out of this hospital,but he had never been violent.
He had always beensort of sorrowful and depressed.
And it turned outhis wife was an alcoholic,
(06:47):
as was one of his children.
And I like a lot of that from differentrelatives and their friends.
And so I was able to piecea lot of this together and track down
a lot of information about the killingsand their lives, but also about my family.
My grandmother was,as I said, one of six children.
They grew up in really troubled timesin South Dakota.
(07:09):
That area of the countryreally saw the Dust Bowl long before
it. Really the fact there was a book
I one of the books I used forreference was called
The Dust Bowl of South Dakota,
which really hit about 20 yearsbefore the famed Oklahoma died.
Southern states that, you know,Grapes of Wrath talks about.
(07:30):
And so they were livinga really tough time.
And it's still while they knowwho killed the people,
they don't necessarily know why.
And so I get into a lot of theories anda lot of background about mental illness
and also talk to some criminologistsand psychiatric experts
who have good hypotheses aboutwhat would make this happen.
(07:55):
And I also learned as I went along that,you know, a lot of times we look at mental
ill people who commit crimesas some kind of monster
that's depicted in movies, Psychoor Falling Down or some of these other.
And they're really a lot of timesthey're just sick.
You know, I don't think my great unclewas a bad person.
I think he was dealingwith a lot of demons.
(08:19):
And it doesn't make itokay what he did, of course.
But it does help you to try to understandwhat drives this.
It's not just
(08:54):
I'm sure,
no craft.
(09:18):
No, it's good question.
No good.
I think he was kind of between the ages.
He was 51 when he died in 1962.
So during World War Two,he was in his thirties
and probably a little young for WorldWar One.
By all accounts,he was not in the service.
He was a very successful cardealer, auto salesman.
(09:42):
Rapid City, Black Hills,
Oldsmobile, Chrysler.
And he was he was in fact, I learned that
the funeral home
that handled the funeral there,
their hearses had been serviced
(10:03):
at his dealershipfor all the small town craziness.
I also learned that many times
there were not ambulance servicesin Rapid City in those days, that
the local funeral home would use the
the I guess they were kind of dualvehicles.
(10:24):
They would have people on call.
And I got to interviewthe actually one of the
one of the responderswho came to remove the bodies,
who said they'd also workpart time at night manning the ambulances.
And that was just the way it was backthen.
You know, Rapid City was, you know, isa major city, still is in South Dakota.
(10:54):
Yes. Yes.
Very rural.
It has a few major.
I mean, the capital is pure.
There are a few other big cities.
But Rapid City is now
it's it's right next to the Black Hillswhere Mount Rushmore is.
(11:14):
I had never been thereuntil I started working on the book.
And it's kind of more of the Old West,you know,
It's about an hour south of Deadwood,South Dakota, which is known for a while.
Both Hitchcockand then the TV show Deadwood.
But it's it'syou know, it has a lot more Old West
history and ranching than farming.
(11:34):
And but it is a it is a major city.
You know, they have their ownmajor newspaper and TV.
It's a TV market. And
but even in 1962, you
know, it wasit was not like today's big cities.
and also learned that
(11:55):
South Dakota did not have a lot of gunrelated deaths then or today.
I mean, I think it was less than 35 gun
related deaths,although it is big gun country.
You know, there's huntingand fishing and all.
But, you know,you don't see the kind of mass murders
that sadlywe're seeing in a lot of places.
(12:16):
That's all.
But my my reporting found
that the gun that was used to killthat family was a
it was a 22 caliber rifle
that one of John Bowman's sons had gotten.
And he had gonehunting with people went hunting early on.
My father grew up in Minnesota.
(12:38):
I think he started huntingwhen he was ten.
And so to have gunsin the house was not unusual.
And some of the
mental health records indicateJohn Glenn was not seen as dangerous.
He was not violent.
In fact,he had always been a volunteer patient.
He was never orderedto go to the hospital.
So, yeah,
(12:59):
that was one of the reason.
It was very surprising.
He also didn't leave a suicidenote of any kind, which
makes investigatorsthink it was probably something of a
of a random actof act of passion in the moment.
There just happenedto be a gun in the house and he thought
for whatever reason, he had to do this
(13:31):
right?
Yeah,
sure.
Yeah, that would make the whole
(13:52):
as I learned more and more about it,
I was more intriguedbecause it so happened
that these two men, John and Tom May,who were very responsive, although John
was, was not very talkative,
I think hehe had also served in Vietnam after this.
So he had traumatic issues and he didn't
(14:16):
say say,
Donald Trump failed.
But Tom was very helpful.
They were friends who were visiting.
They actually knew the familyfrom Canton, Minnesota, which is where
my grandmother and grandfatherended up living with other siblings.
(14:39):
My grandmother, Peggy,who was Alberta's sister,
she married my grandfather,who was from Canton and interestingly,
another sister, theirs, Dorothy, married my grandfather's brother.
So you had two sisters marrying
two brothers, which was probably not allthat unusual back then, but they ran
(15:00):
this nursery in Canton, which is about 600miles from south from Rapid City.
But they would go all over the Midwestto sell their wares.
And one of thestops that his brother Cyril,
was the
one married to grandma's sister,he he would
you know, he would go to South Dakotato sell trees and shrubs and things.
(15:22):
And that's where he met Dorothy.
And then Dorothy brought my sister,
my her sister,my grandmother, Peggy, back to Minnesota.
And so they really built their life.
And my mother and her sistersall grew up partially in Minnesota,
but so they knew this, these two men,
Tom and John Faye,and they knew the family.
(15:43):
So they were visiting Rapid City.
I think one of them was even working out there.
So they just happenedto be staying overnight in the basement.
And they woke up in the morning
expecting to go to churchwith everyone and found the bodies
they claim in the book I talk about, yeah,they didn't hear gunshots.
(16:04):
They claim that they heardsome kind of thump
in the nightand one of the criminologists
I talked to said that might not be unusualif you because it was a rifle,
was a 22 caliber rifle.
And they said that sometimesif you put a gun
right against someone's head, itmuffle sound.
(16:30):
That was the theory.
Yeah.
One of the problems,although I don't think it really affected
me, was there were no police records
because South Rapid City yearslater had a terrible flood
that flooded out police departmentand many other buildings.
And at a time when, you know,you didn't have the Google cloud
(16:51):
to upload documents or other
technology of the day.
So the reports were all.
But it was interestingbecause the newspaper clippings
of the time really filled in a lot of the holes
and also recollections of peoplelike I interviewed
both the as I said,
(17:13):
the the funeral home employeewho helped bring the bodies away
and the priestwho responded to give last rites.
And he was an interesting character.
He had
just become a priest two months earlier,
and he was serving mass that morningbecause it was a Sunday morning.
And when the police responded,they had these four dead bodies.
(17:35):
They needed someone to perform last rites.
So they called the church
and whoever answered the phonebasically literally went up to the priest
during the service and said, look,we need someone to to go give last rites.
And he left and another priesthad to finish the service.
And he told me his descriptionsof what he found.
One of the bodies, I believeit was Maurice, the youngest son.
(17:59):
It looked like he'dbeen shot under the chin
and had a very
clean wound where Bruce, the other son,
he seemed like he had thrashed around
because there was blood on the wallsand all over.
And not to get too graphic,
he probably didn't die right away.
And but it wasn't clearif he was shot from far away or not.
(18:24):
You know,
it was, you know,
let's see, 60 years ago,
you know, Tom Fay may have not realizedhe had heard a noise, but he didn't you.
Plus, I don't know.
You hear a shot.Maybe you're sort of half awake.
However you know, four shots,
(18:44):
that's still a lot.
You would think.
(19:27):
Only that.
One of the things I found was, again,in all the psychiatric records,
which were very detailed, he was generally
seen as depressed, anxiety ridden.
But in both he had been inand he had been in a Yankton
state hospital,which I think has a different name
now, twicethe year before, for about four months.
(19:47):
And then that same year, 1962,the the killings have on July 29th.
He had been in the hospital
for a couple of weeks in the spring,gotten out in May, but he had already
started separation efforts from his wife.
He was still living in Yankton.
He had actually livedwith another woman for a while.
(20:10):
And he just this.
So it's also thinking, you know,he was kind of getting a new life.
So why would he pull this?
Although he was still dealingwith financial problems,
he had been a very successfulcar salesman.
And as I go through in the book,you know, the auto
industry was having some ups and downsright after during World War Two.
(20:33):
They shut down a lot because the autoplants had to be used for the war.
But then afterwards, there was a big boomin car sales in 52, 53,
and he was doing very well, butthen he was still having his own issues.
It seems from the
records, because of anxiety,because I think a lot of pressures,
(20:54):
you know, you have to keep making moneyas a salesman.
And his wifeand one of his sons were alcoholics.
So that's another thing that comes about.
You know, you have a lot of angstin the family, a lot of stress.
He had gone to the he had gone to a mentalhospital years earlier.
He had gone to the Mayo Clinic,which is up in Minnesota briefly.
(21:17):
And had gotten out there.
He'd always gotten these,you know, these good marks.
It's okay.
You're you're he's okay to leave. But,
yes, yes.
And I thought very,
very unusual for that time,especially for a man in the Midwest.
You know,men are supposed to be tough, macho,
the stigma of mental illness isit's still still not great today.
(21:42):
But even back then, worse.
So the fact that he was willing to do that
and he seemed very lucid and accordingto the reports and was getting better.
But some of the expertsI talked to theorized that,
you know, what was going on inhis head was still maybe guilt
because he was his marriagewas breaking up and he didn't feel like
(22:05):
he was making the money for his family,perhaps, and embarrassed.
And as the fifties went along,he started to do worse and worse at work
and he ended up leaving his job.
And that's you know,it's a lot for a lot of men to take.
And again,especially back then in that area.
And so a lot of thiswas going through his head.
(22:27):
And like I
said, he was in the hospitaljust months earlier and,
you know, the treatment at the time,I'm sure wasn't what it is today
medically terms of medications
or even therapy and the acceptance.
So it's a lot of mixed bag.
And then you have a wife who's alcoholic.
One of the kids is having trouble.
It's a lot swirling around.
(22:53):
Guess
what?
Just a week.
A week before 911.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was actually my mother'scousin, her age and also my aunts.
(23:14):
And they said he
a lot of people talked aboutright after the deaths,
he had to kind of help plan the funeraland that he was very, very matter of fact,
very stoic,very kind of focused on the task at hand.
he stayed with one of the friendsI talked to.
And they said he was just very you know,he wasn't wallowing in pity in the corner,
(23:36):
but he wasn't, you know, throwing a partyeither.
He was just sort of even keelfocused on what he had to do.
And years later, go ahead.
Not that I ever learned.
No. I don't think a lot of peoplewanted to talk a lot of people
(23:57):
my family didn't talk about this at allfor years.
I mean,
you know,it took my nosiness, I guess, too.
But then I learned in talkingto a lot of family members,
they really were curious about it.
It's not like I was wondering if, well,do they want me to go down this road
as I started research and if they hadcome to look, we don't talk about it.
It's family history.
(24:18):
Keep it where it is.
That would have been interesting to me.
It probably made it more difficult,but they were all very open.
My cousins, my uncle,my uncles and aunts
and friends who knew the family were very,I guess, wanting to kind of tell it.
No one had talked about itfor, you know, 50 years, 60 years.
(24:42):
Yeah.
And I wanted to know
I like I, I was a lot of times I do booksbecause I want to learn about the stuff.
And it was it was very helpful, though,that they were willing to help.
And then he went on,he actually and graduated college.
He eventually became an airline pilot.
(25:05):
So he was doing pretty well for years.
And then
in like I guess the nineties,
he kind of kind of fell out of touch.
And he was actually living on the streetfor a while.
I think when he died, his last knownaddress was some kind of halfway house or,
or a homeless place in California.
And when he died, I think my grandmother and my aunt
(25:29):
were very involved inin transporting his body back.
And he's buriedright there in the cemetery in Rapid City,
next to his brother's and his.
Yeah, they're all in the same cemeteryas though they were.
They're put there at the same time.
(26:04):
Well, I just think it's a it's,if you like, true crime.
It's I think it's a great true crime storybecause it involves
mental illness and some mysteryas to why this happened.
But also I try to look into this idea that
a mentally ill personisn't some kind of monster of,
you know,like before you hear about in movies
(26:26):
and you realize these are justsometimes these are just sick people.
I don't think my uncle,my great uncle, was a bad person or evil.
I think he was sick.
He suffered from depression and anxietiesand he went over the edge.
Does that make him guilt free? No.
What he did was still a horrible thing,and it always will be.
(26:47):
But I think to understandwhat brings you to this
kind of a tragedyis a way to prevent it in the future.
And also to understand, you know, thesethese are all people.
This can happen to anyone,anyone can deal with
any kind of emotional issue,whether it's depression or anxiety
or paranoia or drug addiction or,you know,
(27:08):
it all stems from emotions.
And maybe the other cautionary tale is,
you know, if someone is dealing with this,get them to help.
He got help at the time, but it was 1962.
You know,how good was mental health treatment?
It sounds like it was betterthan I would have thought
because there was medication he was on,there was treatment, there was therapy.
(27:31):
And then some of the expertsI talked to in the book also point out,
you know what, today you don't always haveall the answers either.
As we know there's shooting spreesthat go on.
People have mental illness.
So you kind of have to look at thisas a as a victim
in their own right in some waysand as a troubled person,
(27:53):
not just some evil monsterthat just wants to kill
(28:19):
them.
Well, let him get in a long walk home.
(28:42):
There have been no official arrests,but there are some suspects
that I go through in the book,and I do in the end,
I do point to one personI think is the most likely suspect.
a man who
had worked just across the streetfrom where
the girl, Caroline Farina, was last seenand who years later
(29:03):
was actually arrested and triedfor another murder of a young woman.
But he was acquitted on that case.
But there are a lot of reasonswhy he's probably the most likely suspect.
And also some other suspectsin New Jersey.
I learned that in New Jersey,we have quite a history of of
multiple murdererswho prey on young women.
(29:24):
It's really kind of there's one man,Richard Cottingham,
who was also one of my suspects.
He is in recent years admitted to killing.
I think it's up to 15 womenover a 20 year span and several others.
So it's kind of a frightening Leigh long list of, you know, young,
(29:46):
attractive womenbeing murdered by by multiple killing men.
But that is unsolved
in terms of no one has ever been arrestedor convicted on it.
But and then in this case,I know the way
I approach it is, you know,I've been a reporter for 35 years.
I've covered a lot of different kindsof things, including crime.
I just start with the basics.
(30:06):
In the case of Caroline Ferrigno,I was able to get police reports,
although we're still actuallyin a legal battle
with the Maplewood Police Department
in New Jersey and the Essex Countyprosecutor's office to get more access.
There's apparently a large folder
of information on Carol's case
that they will not release, even though
(30:28):
the case is is more than 50 years oldand nothing has been done on it.
And her
sister, who's still alive,was a big part of the book.
And I have been trying to get access
to these records that we were promisedaccess to at one point.
And then the county prosecutor's officein New Jersey.
We don't have district attorneysthere, call them county prosecutors.
(30:50):
I in New Jersey,the county prosecutor's office.
And each county basically has jurisdictionover all serious crimes.
So they came in and said, no,you can't have access.
I file public information requests.
They've been denied.
We're in touch with a lawyer
so that we think there's a lot in there
that will paint a pictureof what really happened
(31:11):
and how the police in Maplewoodreally botched much of the case
because they seemed to focus on peopleshe knew
and her family, including her father,who had a very clear alibi.
And they didn't
really look into the factthat it could have been a stranger,
someone she didn't knowbecause she worked in this diner at night
(31:32):
in a very busy part of town
where they got a lot of night crawlers,
if you will, a lot of cab driversand right across from the train station.
So people come in and out of the train.
They never went down that road.
And I think a lot of criminologistsI've talked to
and her sister
believe that
(31:54):
they missed their chanceand that it was more likely
someone she didn't knowrather than someone she did know.
But in the case they basically startedwith that it could get a
the few police reports I could get
and then talk to her sister.
And then her sister knew a lot of people
who knew her,who knew her, who knew Carol.
(32:16):
And then I went on some Facebook pages
and Facebook had a few pages,as many towns have, you know,
growing up in this town.
So there's a couple of Facebook pages.
People have lived in South Orangeand Maplewood.
They're kind of sister towns.
These are your school district.
And so I went on a coupleof those Facebook pages
and just said,Hey, I'm working on this case.
(32:37):
And I just got flooded with with people.
I know Carol, or I remember thisand I remember that.
And I asked her sister aboutdid she know these people?
And she said, yeah,this guy was her friends.
And even her boyfriendat the time came through
and they all had all kinds of memoriesof what happened that night.
One girl had a party that nightand members
of policecome in the next day asking questions.
(33:00):
And that led to even more peoplewho had information.
And it really painted a good picture
of of what happened leading up to.
And then the years that followed,how the police didn't really
it kept trying to find outand really didn't follow the right leads.
And then I kind of do a story,also the side story on her sister.
(33:21):
Her sister, you know, grew up
with this hanging over her head.
She got married young and got divorced,and then she moved out to the Midwest
and had all kinds of her owndemons and issues because, you know,
her only sister was killedwhen she was 11 years old
and she was asked by her mother.
(33:45):
After a while,her sister had left this diner, milk's
cup and saucer in downtownMaplewood at about 730.
She was last seen a little beforeeight walking home.
And when she didn't get home
around 830, her mother said, you know,
wake your father up to go look forbecause the father was sleeping.
He had been a newspaper delivery guy.
(34:08):
So he worked early hours.
He come home and take a nap.
So he's sleeping.
The sister, Cynthia went to wake him up.
He went out to look for.
And then at some point
the sister fell asleep on the couch
and she said she was woken up at about,
you know, between 11 and midnightby a policeman
(34:30):
who essentially told her,yeah, your sister was killed.
when you write a book,you can kind of take it wherever you want,
which I really like,because I go off into some side
stories, You know, it's not just, here'sthis terrible crime.
It's, you know, back story on this person,on this time
in this year, in this town,what it was like
(34:50):
and I was able to do a lot of thatin both books and in the Long Walk Home
I'm sorry in doesn't say Charles Street.
I started with newspaper clippingsat the time,
and back then
the stories on funeralswould often list all the pallbearers
were people buried in this funeral.
(35:13):
So that six pallbearers each?
Yeah.
And so I just started tracking them down.
And, you know, the Internetis a great source for tracking down
phone numbers and started calling oneand then another and another.
And that led to another person who knewthis person and everyone very responsive.
And then I got the state hospital records,which helped fill in some holes.
(35:34):
And then a lot of my relativeswho not only talked about
the killingsand what happened, but just the family
at the timeand growing up in South Dakota,
which, you know, was a very poor areaand it really well drowned nicely.
In fact, one of my great auntsby Greg Delores Connolly,
(35:54):
who they called Jiggs,she just died last year, I think 104.
It lived next door.
Her and her husband had lived next doorto the Bowmans prior to the killings,
so she had great insightinto what the couple was like.
And she, like everyone, painted a picture of him as a very quiet,
(36:15):
nice man who never cause any trouble.
And bang,you know, here's here's this terrible
ending.
(36:38):
it's available at Amazon.com
or Barnesandnoble.com.
And any bookstore can order it.
If you want people to order some of thesebookstores, I'm in New Jersey.
So if someone wants to get oneand have me sign it or I.
I only have a few copies sell, you can getinformation on me at my website.
Joe STRATCOM But a lot of times bookstores around
(37:02):
New Jersey, you can order from themif you don't want to necessarily
pad the Amazon pockets.
A lot of local bookstorescalled Call Your Favorite Bookstore,
and they'll order it and I'll talk.
Let's
find a way to sign it if you want.
so it's available anywhere that any otherbook is available online or in person.
(37:25):
Just ask them to order itor get it on Amazon.
And you can also download the copyif you if you're all about the Kindle,
which I am too.
Awesome.
Well, thank you
(37:46):
thank you so much stay safe.
Thank you for listening.
That'll do it for the show.
Before you go,take a quick second to subscribe
and please leave a rating or reviewwherever you listen to podcasts.
If you want additional content or knowof different ways to support the podcast,
visit our website.
A study of Strange XCOM.
We will be off next week,but back soon after that.
(38:09):
Thank you and good night.
Warning.
This episode contains detailsthat some listeners
may find disturbing.
For about 60 years.
A chilling story was a tight lippedfamily secret.
In 1962, in Rapid City, South Dakota,
in the dead of night, John Bowmancarried out an unthinkable act.
(00:21):
He took the lives of his wifeand two of their children
before turning the gun on himself.
He did not leave a suicidenote in his motives are still a mystery.
Not many people in the familyknew about this story until author
and journalist Jo Strep came acrossthe tale of his great uncle, John Bowman.
And Strub spent yearsinvestigating the case And his findings
(00:45):
are in his new book, Death on StCharles Street.
Today, Joe Strubjoins us talk about the book
and investigating true crime.
This is a study of strange.
(01:14):
Welcome to the show.
Michael.
May your host into, well,all sorts of strangeness.
Today is a special episode,because while I normally share
a strange story with the guest today,I have a special guest
who's going to talk to meabout some strange stories.
I have with me author and journalistJoe Strap.
Hi, Joe. How are you doing?
of course.
I'm very excited to have you.
(01:34):
You've been a journalist for a long time.
You've written
four books, two of which kind of fitthe genre of the show, which are
true crime books, a Long Walk Home,which I believe is an unsolved murder.
Is that right? Yes.
And your most recent book, Death on SaintCharles Street
Sure.
(02:10):
Sure.
The book is, as you said, Death on SaintCharles Street.
It concerns a quadruple murder suicide
that occurred in 1962 in Rapid City,South Dakota,
which is where my grandmothers from,my grandmother, Peggy Snyder.
She was one of six children.
And that's three girls and three boys
(02:31):
and one of her sisters.
Alberta was marriedto a man named John Bowman.
They lived in Rapid City
while the rest of the siblingseventually moved away.
So her one one of hertwo sisters was married to this man.
They had three children.
And one day in 1962, he killedtwo of the children and his wife.
(02:54):
My grandmother's sister and himself
in a multiple murder suicide.
The third son was not at home.
He was away at college.
Otherwise, he probablywould have been involved as well.
And they were basically found deadin their home on a Sunday morning
by two guests who happenedto be staying over in the basement.
(03:15):
He apparently let them live.
And there was always a mysteryas to why he was not a violent man.
He had never made any kind of threats.
He was, however, sufferingfrom different kinds of mental illness,
depression,anxieties, some some paranoia.
And he had actually been in and outof a mental hospital.
And I was able to actually get recordsfrom the state hospital
(03:37):
there in South Dakota.
But all this happened on a Sunday morningin 1962, and I was not even born yet.
So I did not hear about ituntil about 20 years ago.
I was at a family reunionand my aunt was showing
slides and home movies
and she was pointing out different people,You know, this is your Aunt Dorothy,
(04:00):
this is your Uncle Morris,This is this person.
And then there was one woman
I had never seen, and she said, that's your Aunt Alberta.
And I said, did I ever wouldI have never known her.
And she said, No,she died before you were born.
And I said,
And then my
wife actually piped up and said,How did she die?
(04:21):
And the room got kind of quiet.
And my aunt then said, Well,she was murdered.
And I was like a light bulb in my reporterhead went off murder.
You know, I never, never had any relativesthat had that kind of death.
And so I started asking questions.
And then over the years,I kept wanting to find out about her.
(04:43):
And then in about 20,
2016, I started working on my first truecrime book
called A Long Walk Home,which is about an unsolved murder.
As you mentioned, of a 17 yearold high school student in Maplewood,
New Jersey, which is where I used to live.
And I started working on that.
(05:03):
And that came out two years ago.
A woman had been strangled
and she had just been on her way homefrom work, this student.
And she never made it.
She was last seenleaving her job at a diner, walking home.
And then an hour later,
her body was found strangled in a drivewayabout half mile away.
(05:24):
And there's never been any suspects,never any arrests.
And I wrote extensivelyabout that element.
I also found her
sister, who was only 11 at the time,who was a big part of the book.
So I did that bookand I really enjoyed doing it.
I liked lookinginto the criminology of it.
I liked looking into the background
(05:45):
So after that was done,
I said, Well,
let me look back at this casein my family.
And so I started with newspaper clippingsat the time, which were very extensive,
and that led to informationabout people who knew the family.
It was basically the mother andthe father, my great uncle, my great aunt,
(06:05):
the great aunt being my grandmother'ssister and their three children.
And I was able to track downpeople who knew them,
And also my mother and her two sistershad known a lot about the family.
They gave me insights into the funeralsand when they heard about these killings.
And then I was also ableto get mental health records
(06:26):
from my great uncleat a state hospital in South Dakota.
And that really helped piece it togetherbecause he had suffered from depression.
He had suffered from anxiety.
He had been in and out of this hospital,but he had never been violent.
He had always beensort of sorrowful and depressed.
And it turned outhis wife was an alcoholic,
(06:47):
as was one of his children.
And I like a lot of that from differentrelatives and their friends.
And so I was able to piecea lot of this together and track down
a lot of information about the killingsand their lives, but also about my family.
My grandmother was,as I said, one of six children.
They grew up in really troubled timesin South Dakota.
(07:09):
That area of the countryreally saw the Dust Bowl long before
it. Really the fact there was a book
I one of the books I used forreference was called
The Dust Bowl of South Dakota,
which really hit about 20 yearsbefore the famed Oklahoma died.
Southern states that, you know,Grapes of Wrath talks about.
(07:30):
And so they were livinga really tough time.
And it's still while they knowwho killed the people,
they don't necessarily know why.
And so I get into a lot of theories anda lot of background about mental illness
and also talk to some criminologistsand psychiatric experts
who have good hypotheses aboutwhat would make this happen.
(07:55):
And I also learned as I went along that,you know, a lot of times we look at mental
ill people who commit crimesas some kind of monster
that's depicted in movies, Psychoor Falling Down or some of these other.
And they're really a lot of timesthey're just sick.
You know, I don't think my great unclewas a bad person.
I think he was dealingwith a lot of demons.
(08:19):
And it doesn't make itokay what he did, of course.
But it does help you to try to understandwhat drives this.
It's not just
(08:54):
I'm sure,
no craft.
(09:18):
No, it's good question.
No good.
I think he was kind of between the ages.
He was 51 when he died in 1962.
So during World War Two,he was in his thirties
and probably a little young for WorldWar One.
By all accounts,he was not in the service.
He was a very successful cardealer, auto salesman.
(09:42):
Rapid City, Black Hills,
Oldsmobile, Chrysler.
And he was he was in fact, I learned that
the funeral home
that handled the funeral there,
their hearses had been serviced
(10:03):
at his dealershipfor all the small town craziness.
I also learned that many times
there were not ambulance servicesin Rapid City in those days, that
the local funeral home would use the
the I guess they were kind of dualvehicles.
(10:24):
They would have people on call.
And I got to interviewthe actually one of the
one of the responderswho came to remove the bodies,
who said they'd also workpart time at night manning the ambulances.
And that was just the way it was backthen.
You know, Rapid City was, you know, isa major city, still is in South Dakota.
(10:54):
Yes. Yes.
Very rural.
It has a few major.
I mean, the capital is pure.
There are a few other big cities.
But Rapid City is now
it's it's right next to the Black Hillswhere Mount Rushmore is.
(11:14):
I had never been thereuntil I started working on the book.
And it's kind of more of the Old West,you know,
It's about an hour south of Deadwood,South Dakota, which is known for a while.
Both Hitchcockand then the TV show Deadwood.
But it's it'syou know, it has a lot more Old West
history and ranching than farming.
(11:34):
And but it is a it is a major city.
You know, they have their ownmajor newspaper and TV.
It's a TV market. And
but even in 1962, you
know, it wasit was not like today's big cities.
and also learned that
(11:55):
South Dakota did not have a lot of gunrelated deaths then or today.
I mean, I think it was less than 35 gun
related deaths,although it is big gun country.
You know, there's huntingand fishing and all.
But, you know,you don't see the kind of mass murders
that sadlywe're seeing in a lot of places.
(12:16):
That's all.
But my my reporting found
that the gun that was used to killthat family was a
it was a 22 caliber rifle
that one of John Bowman's sons had gotten.
And he had gonehunting with people went hunting early on.
My father grew up in Minnesota.
(12:38):
I think he started huntingwhen he was ten.
And so to have gunsin the house was not unusual.
And some of the
mental health records indicateJohn Glenn was not seen as dangerous.
He was not violent.
In fact,he had always been a volunteer patient.
He was never orderedto go to the hospital.
So, yeah,
(12:59):
that was one of the reason.
It was very surprising.
He also didn't leave a suicidenote of any kind, which
makes investigatorsthink it was probably something of a
of a random actof act of passion in the moment.
There just happenedto be a gun in the house and he thought
for whatever reason, he had to do this
(13:31):
right?
Yeah,
sure.
Yeah, that would make the whole
(13:52):
as I learned more and more about it,
I was more intriguedbecause it so happened
that these two men, John and Tom May,who were very responsive, although John
was, was not very talkative,
I think hehe had also served in Vietnam after this.
So he had traumatic issues and he didn't
(14:16):
say say,
Donald Trump failed.
But Tom was very helpful.
They were friends who were visiting.
They actually knew the familyfrom Canton, Minnesota, which is where
my grandmother and grandfatherended up living with other siblings.
(14:39):
My grandmother, Peggy,who was Alberta's sister,
she married my grandfather,who was from Canton and interestingly,
another sister, theirs, Dorothy, married my grandfather's brother.
So you had two sisters marrying
two brothers, which was probably not allthat unusual back then, but they ran
(15:00):
this nursery in Canton, which is about 600miles from south from Rapid City.
But they would go all over the Midwestto sell their wares.
And one of thestops that his brother Cyril,
was the
one married to grandma's sister,he he would
you know, he would go to South Dakotato sell trees and shrubs and things.
(15:22):
And that's where he met Dorothy.
And then Dorothy brought my sister,
my her sister,my grandmother, Peggy, back to Minnesota.
And so they really built their life.
And my mother and her sistersall grew up partially in Minnesota,
but so they knew this, these two men,
Tom and John Faye,and they knew the family.
(15:43):
So they were visiting Rapid City.
I think one of them was even working out there.
So they just happenedto be staying overnight in the basement.
And they woke up in the morning
expecting to go to churchwith everyone and found the bodies
they claim in the book I talk about, yeah,they didn't hear gunshots.
(16:04):
They claim that they heardsome kind of thump
in the nightand one of the criminologists
I talked to said that might not be unusualif you because it was a rifle,
was a 22 caliber rifle.
And they said that sometimesif you put a gun
right against someone's head, itmuffle sound.
(16:30):
That was the theory.
Yeah.
One of the problems,although I don't think it really affected
me, was there were no police records
because South Rapid City yearslater had a terrible flood
that flooded out police departmentand many other buildings.
And at a time when, you know,you didn't have the Google cloud
(16:51):
to upload documents or other
technology of the day.
So the reports were all.
But it was interestingbecause the newspaper clippings
of the time really filled in a lot of the holes
and also recollections of peoplelike I interviewed
both the as I said,
(17:13):
the the funeral home employeewho helped bring the bodies away
and the priestwho responded to give last rites.
And he was an interesting character.
He had
just become a priest two months earlier,
and he was serving mass that morningbecause it was a Sunday morning.
And when the police responded,they had these four dead bodies.
(17:35):
They needed someone to perform last rites.
So they called the church
and whoever answered the phonebasically literally went up to the priest
during the service and said, look,we need someone to to go give last rites.
And he left and another priesthad to finish the service.
And he told me his descriptionsof what he found.
One of the bodies, I believeit was Maurice, the youngest son.
(17:59):
It looked like he'dbeen shot under the chin
and had a very
clean wound where Bruce, the other son,
he seemed like he had thrashed around
because there was blood on the wallsand all over.
And not to get too graphic,
he probably didn't die right away.
And but it wasn't clearif he was shot from far away or not.
(18:24):
You know,
it was, you know,
let's see, 60 years ago,
you know, Tom Fay may have not realizedhe had heard a noise, but he didn't you.
Plus, I don't know.
You hear a shot.Maybe you're sort of half awake.
However you know, four shots,
(18:44):
that's still a lot.
You would think.
(19:27):
Only that.
One of the things I found was, again,in all the psychiatric records,
which were very detailed, he was generally
seen as depressed, anxiety ridden.
But in both he had been inand he had been in a Yankton
state hospital,which I think has a different name
now, twicethe year before, for about four months.
(19:47):
And then that same year, 1962,the the killings have on July 29th.
He had been in the hospital
for a couple of weeks in the spring,gotten out in May, but he had already
started separation efforts from his wife.
He was still living in Yankton.
He had actually livedwith another woman for a while.
(20:10):
And he just this.
So it's also thinking, you know,he was kind of getting a new life.
So why would he pull this?
Although he was still dealingwith financial problems,
he had been a very successfulcar salesman.
And as I go through in the book,you know, the auto
industry was having some ups and downsright after during World War Two.
(20:33):
They shut down a lot because the autoplants had to be used for the war.
But then afterwards, there was a big boomin car sales in 52, 53,
and he was doing very well, butthen he was still having his own issues.
It seems from the
records, because of anxiety,because I think a lot of pressures,
(20:54):
you know, you have to keep making moneyas a salesman.
And his wifeand one of his sons were alcoholics.
So that's another thing that comes about.
You know, you have a lot of angstin the family, a lot of stress.
He had gone to the he had gone to a mentalhospital years earlier.
He had gone to the Mayo Clinic,which is up in Minnesota briefly.
(21:17):
And had gotten out there.
He'd always gotten these,you know, these good marks.
It's okay.
You're you're he's okay to leave. But,
yes, yes.
And I thought very,
very unusual for that time,especially for a man in the Midwest.
You know,men are supposed to be tough, macho,
the stigma of mental illness isit's still still not great today.
(21:42):
But even back then, worse.
So the fact that he was willing to do that
and he seemed very lucid and accordingto the reports and was getting better.
But some of the expertsI talked to theorized that,
you know, what was going on inhis head was still maybe guilt
because he was his marriagewas breaking up and he didn't feel like
(22:05):
he was making the money for his family,perhaps, and embarrassed.
And as the fifties went along,he started to do worse and worse at work
and he ended up leaving his job.
And that's you know,it's a lot for a lot of men to take.
And again,especially back then in that area.
And so a lot of thiswas going through his head.
(22:27):
And like I
said, he was in the hospitaljust months earlier and,
you know, the treatment at the time,I'm sure wasn't what it is today
medically terms of medications
or even therapy and the acceptance.
So it's a lot of mixed bag.
And then you have a wife who's alcoholic.
One of the kids is having trouble.
It's a lot swirling around.
(22:53):
Guess
what?
Just a week.
A week before 911.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was actually my mother'scousin, her age and also my aunts.
(23:14):
And they said he
a lot of people talked aboutright after the deaths,
he had to kind of help plan the funeraland that he was very, very matter of fact,
very stoic,very kind of focused on the task at hand.
he stayed with one of the friendsI talked to.
And they said he was just very you know,he wasn't wallowing in pity in the corner,
(23:36):
but he wasn't, you know, throwing a partyeither.
He was just sort of even keelfocused on what he had to do.
And years later, go ahead.
Not that I ever learned.
No. I don't think a lot of peoplewanted to talk a lot of people
(23:57):
my family didn't talk about this at allfor years.
I mean,
you know,it took my nosiness, I guess, too.
But then I learned in talkingto a lot of family members,
they really were curious about it.
It's not like I was wondering if, well,do they want me to go down this road
as I started research and if they hadcome to look, we don't talk about it.
It's family history.
(24:18):
Keep it where it is.
That would have been interesting to me.
It probably made it more difficult,but they were all very open.
My cousins, my uncle,my uncles and aunts
and friends who knew the family were very,I guess, wanting to kind of tell it.
No one had talked about itfor, you know, 50 years, 60 years.
(24:42):
Yeah.
And I wanted to know
I like I, I was a lot of times I do booksbecause I want to learn about the stuff.
And it was it was very helpful, though,that they were willing to help.
And then he went on,he actually and graduated college.
He eventually became an airline pilot.
(25:05):
So he was doing pretty well for years.
And then
in like I guess the nineties,
he kind of kind of fell out of touch.
And he was actually living on the streetfor a while.
I think when he died, his last knownaddress was some kind of halfway house or,
or a homeless place in California.
And when he died, I think my grandmother and my aunt
(25:29):
were very involved inin transporting his body back.
And he's buriedright there in the cemetery in Rapid City,
next to his brother's and his.
Yeah, they're all in the same cemeteryas though they were.
They're put there at the same time.
(26:04):
Well, I just think it's a it's,if you like, true crime.
It's I think it's a great true crime storybecause it involves
mental illness and some mysteryas to why this happened.
But also I try to look into this idea that
a mentally ill personisn't some kind of monster of,
you know,like before you hear about in movies
(26:26):
and you realize these are justsometimes these are just sick people.
I don't think my uncle,my great uncle, was a bad person or evil.
I think he was sick.
He suffered from depression and anxietiesand he went over the edge.
Does that make him guilt free? No.
What he did was still a horrible thing,and it always will be.
(26:47):
But I think to understandwhat brings you to this
kind of a tragedyis a way to prevent it in the future.
And also to understand, you know, thesethese are all people.
This can happen to anyone,anyone can deal with
any kind of emotional issue,whether it's depression or anxiety
or paranoia or drug addiction or,you know,
(27:08):
it all stems from emotions.
And maybe the other cautionary tale is,
you know, if someone is dealing with this,get them to help.
He got help at the time, but it was 1962.
You know,how good was mental health treatment?
It sounds like it was betterthan I would have thought
because there was medication he was on,there was treatment, there was therapy.
(27:31):
And then some of the expertsI talked to in the book also point out,
you know what, today you don't always haveall the answers either.
As we know there's shooting spreesthat go on.
People have mental illness.
So you kind of have to look at thisas a as a victim
in their own right in some waysand as a troubled person,
(27:53):
not just some evil monsterthat just wants to kill
(28:19):
them.
Well, let him get in a long walk home.
(28:42):
There have been no official arrests,but there are some suspects
that I go through in the book,and I do in the end,
I do point to one personI think is the most likely suspect.
a man who
had worked just across the streetfrom where
the girl, Caroline Farina, was last seenand who years later
(29:03):
was actually arrested and triedfor another murder of a young woman.
But he was acquitted on that case.
But there are a lot of reasonswhy he's probably the most likely suspect.
And also some other suspectsin New Jersey.
I learned that in New Jersey,we have quite a history of of
multiple murdererswho prey on young women.
(29:24):
It's really kind of there's one man,Richard Cottingham,
who was also one of my suspects.
He is in recent years admitted to killing.
I think it's up to 15 womenover a 20 year span and several others.
So it's kind of a frightening Leigh long list of, you know, young,
(29:46):
attractive womenbeing murdered by by multiple killing men.
But that is unsolved
in terms of no one has ever been arrestedor convicted on it.
But and then in this case,I know the way
I approach it is, you know,I've been a reporter for 35 years.
I've covered a lot of different kindsof things, including crime.
I just start with the basics.
(30:06):
In the case of Caroline Ferrigno,I was able to get police reports,
although we're still actuallyin a legal battle
with the Maplewood Police Department
in New Jersey and the Essex Countyprosecutor's office to get more access.
There's apparently a large folder
of information on Carol's case
that they will not release, even though
(30:28):
the case is is more than 50 years oldand nothing has been done on it.
And her
sister, who's still alive,was a big part of the book.
And I have been trying to get access
to these records that we were promisedaccess to at one point.
And then the county prosecutor's officein New Jersey.
We don't have district attorneysthere, call them county prosecutors.
(30:50):
I in New Jersey,the county prosecutor's office.
And each county basically has jurisdictionover all serious crimes.
So they came in and said, no,you can't have access.
I file public information requests.
They've been denied.
We're in touch with a lawyer
so that we think there's a lot in there
that will paint a pictureof what really happened
(31:11):
and how the police in Maplewoodreally botched much of the case
because they seemed to focus on peopleshe knew
and her family, including her father,who had a very clear alibi.
And they didn't
really look into the factthat it could have been a stranger,
someone she didn't knowbecause she worked in this diner at night
(31:32):
in a very busy part of town
where they got a lot of night crawlers,
if you will, a lot of cab driversand right across from the train station.
So people come in and out of the train.
They never went down that road.
And I think a lot of criminologistsI've talked to
and her sister
believe that
(31:54):
they missed their chanceand that it was more likely
someone she didn't knowrather than someone she did know.
But in the case they basically startedwith that it could get a
the few police reports I could get
and then talk to her sister.
And then her sister knew a lot of people
who knew her,who knew her, who knew Carol.
(32:16):
And then I went on some Facebook pages
and Facebook had a few pages,as many towns have, you know,
growing up in this town.
So there's a couple of Facebook pages.
People have lived in South Orangeand Maplewood.
They're kind of sister towns.
These are your school district.
And so I went on a coupleof those Facebook pages
and just said,Hey, I'm working on this case.
(32:37):
And I just got flooded with with people.
I know Carol, or I remember thisand I remember that.
And I asked her sister aboutdid she know these people?
And she said, yeah,this guy was her friends.
And even her boyfriendat the time came through
and they all had all kinds of memoriesof what happened that night.
One girl had a party that nightand members
of policecome in the next day asking questions.
(33:00):
And that led to even more peoplewho had information.
And it really painted a good picture
of of what happened leading up to.
And then the years that followed,how the police didn't really
it kept trying to find outand really didn't follow the right leads.
And then I kind of do a story,also the side story on her sister.
(33:21):
Her sister, you know, grew up
with this hanging over her head.
She got married young and got divorced,and then she moved out to the Midwest
and had all kinds of her owndemons and issues because, you know,
her only sister was killedwhen she was 11 years old
and she was asked by her mother.
(33:45):
After a while,her sister had left this diner, milk's
cup and saucer in downtownMaplewood at about 730.
She was last seen a little beforeeight walking home.
And when she didn't get home
around 830, her mother said, you know,
wake your father up to go look forbecause the father was sleeping.
He had been a newspaper delivery guy.
(34:08):
So he worked early hours.
He come home and take a nap.
So he's sleeping.
The sister, Cynthia went to wake him up.
He went out to look for.
And then at some point
the sister fell asleep on the couch
and she said she was woken up at about,
you know, between 11 and midnightby a policeman
(34:30):
who essentially told her,yeah, your sister was killed.
when you write a book,you can kind of take it wherever you want,
which I really like,because I go off into some side
stories, You know, it's not just, here'sthis terrible crime.
It's, you know, back story on this person,on this time
in this year, in this town,what it was like
(34:50):
and I was able to do a lot of thatin both books and in the Long Walk Home
I'm sorry in doesn't say Charles Street.
I started with newspaper clippingsat the time,
and back then
the stories on funeralswould often list all the pallbearers
were people buried in this funeral.
(35:13):
So that six pallbearers each?
Yeah.
And so I just started tracking them down.
And, you know, the Internetis a great source for tracking down
phone numbers and started calling oneand then another and another.
And that led to another person who knewthis person and everyone very responsive.
And then I got the state hospital records,which helped fill in some holes.
(35:34):
And then a lot of my relativeswho not only talked about
the killingsand what happened, but just the family
at the timeand growing up in South Dakota,
which, you know, was a very poor areaand it really well drowned nicely.
In fact, one of my great auntsby Greg Delores Connolly,
(35:54):
who they called Jiggs,she just died last year, I think 104.
It lived next door.
Her and her husband had lived next doorto the Bowmans prior to the killings,
so she had great insightinto what the couple was like.
And she, like everyone, painted a picture of him as a very quiet,
(36:15):
nice man who never cause any trouble.
And bang,you know, here's here's this terrible
ending.
(36:38):
it's available at Amazon.com
or Barnesandnoble.com.
And any bookstore can order it.
If you want people to order some of thesebookstores, I'm in New Jersey.
So if someone wants to get oneand have me sign it or I.
I only have a few copies sell, you can getinformation on me at my website.
Joe STRATCOM But a lot of times bookstores around
(37:02):
New Jersey, you can order from themif you don't want to necessarily
pad the Amazon pockets.
A lot of local bookstorescalled Call Your Favorite Bookstore,
and they'll order it and I'll talk.
Let's
find a way to sign it if you want.
so it's available anywhere that any otherbook is available online or in person.
(37:25):
Just ask them to order itor get it on Amazon.
And you can also download the copyif you if you're all about the Kindle,
which I am too.
Awesome.
Well, thank you
(37:46):
thank you so much stay safe.
Thank you for listening.
That'll do it for the show.
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A study of Strange XCOM.
We will be off next week,but back soon after that.
(38:09):
Thank you and good night.
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