January 28, 2024 • 29 mins
Join Dr. Regan for the first episode of the new Communication Series. This first episode highlights moments of connection, such as talking in the car, going out on date night, and catching up with a friend. Tune in to hear what to avoid and what to focus on to enhance connection.
Dr. Regan's Resources:
Zur Institute courses for clinicians
Understanding Autism in Adults and Aging Adults, 2nd ed
Book: Understanding Autistic Behaviors
Autism in the Adult website homepage
Website Resources for Clinicians
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:09):
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the podcast, Autism in the Adult.
I am your host, Dr. Theresa Regan. I'm a neuropsychologist, so I understand how
the brain connections and the health of the brain impact things like thinking skills, also emotions,
behaviors, and personalities.
(00:30):
I'm a certified autism specialist, the mother of a young adult on the autism
spectrum. We're starting a new series here on the podcast about communication.
You know how sometimes you're going through your week, and whether it's emails.
or telephone calls or people around you, there are themes that seem to be creeping
(00:51):
up. And that's really happened to me lately with the theme of communication.
How do I communicate in a really satisfying way with someone?
And this is across all of us, right? We just really want sometimes to use communication for connection.
And we might have a conversation with someone and walk away feeling like,
(01:14):
gosh, that was really just not very satisfying.
I feel like it just didn't go well.
So we're going to do a series,
and this first episode is about using communication when the goal is really
just to connect in a conversation.
There are no large relationship goals. There's no tricky subjects that we have to talk about.
(01:40):
It's really just, gosh, I really would love to connect with this person.
And I feel like I'm going about it the wrong way or I'm just missing the mark.
The next episode will be about using communication when the goal is connecting
in a larger relationship.
(02:01):
So how do we use communication to help our relationship get unstuck or kind
of move on from past hurts or strengthen the relationship?
And the third will be about communicating when we have some difficult topic
to talk about, a challenge to overcome,
a problem to solve, and how to help that process of communicating feel effective
(02:29):
and impactful rather than feeling like we're at a stalemate or we've hurt our relationship.
So today, our focus again is on on connecting through conversation.
And I think that one of the places we go wrong in trying to do this is relying on the golden rule.
(02:51):
And you might say, how could we go wrong relying on the golden rule?
Because it is golden. So, the golden rule is treat others the way that you would want them to treat you.
And indeed, that sounds really helpful, and it's good in many circumstances.
But in reality, because we know that we all have different past experiences,
(03:17):
we all have different nervous systems, we all have different personalities.
Really, we need to be able to connect with someone in the way that they need
to connect or communicate.
So keeping in mind this rule, what does this person need right now in the form
(03:38):
of communication can help us have more satisfying experiences where we go away feeling like,
oh, that worked better.
Maybe it wasn't the way I instinctually communicate.
Maybe it wasn't the way I had planned for things to go. But when I focused on
what this person needs during communication, it really helped to set a much
(04:03):
better tone, and it felt good.
So for the purposes of today's episode, let's talk about what to keep in mind
if the conversation is between an autistic and a non-autistic.
So for the individual on the autism spectrum in general, their social conversation
(04:25):
energy meter is going to be lower.
So their system isn't going to be driven as much to communicate just to socially
connect, to talk about the day, to talk about feelings.
In general they're going to prefer
to talk about topics or
(04:47):
projects or facts, and they may have favorite topics that they would like to
talk about over other topics. They're going to tend to communicate less just
for social-emotional purposes -- let me hear what your thoughts are,
let me get closer to you emotionally.
(05:08):
That may not be their go-to kind of communication.
And that type of communication may be fine, but it'll take up some more energy for them.
In addition to thinking about their social meter and how filled or drained they
are, it's good to think about whether the conversation is going to be topic-focused.
(05:35):
Or whether you're going to be focusing on relational sharing.
If it's going to be topic-focused and it's a topic that they are interested
in, they're going to have much more energy for that.
And in fact, it may be that it fills them up with their energy.
If you're going to ask them to talk about their internal world and listen to
(06:02):
what's going on in your internal world,
that will take a lot more energy, and their social meter may not be able to spare that.
So if a parent is in a car and picks up their child from school and wants to
hear about their day, their experiences, what they liked, what they didn't like,
that may be the wrong timing,
(06:25):
for a social conversation.
I've just gone to school. I'm really drained.
I don't have the bandwidth to
then talk about how I felt and what happened between me and other people.
So the timing of what we're asking someone to talk about is important in combination
(06:47):
with understanding how much drain the type of conversation might have.
Is this a social conversation or a topic-focused conversation?
There are some individuals, particularly on the the autism spectrum who tend
to be night owls and not a morning person.
(07:07):
So if you are someone who loves to talk in the morning and you get up chipper
and energetic, and you want people to talk about how they're doing and,
you know, what their plan is for the day and all of that kind of thing,
you know, the other person may have a very low bandwidth for that in the morning,
(07:29):
but perhaps they have a higher bandwidth in the evening.
One way to measure the bandwidth is to see how they respond to your cues to
try to strike up a conversation.
So if you say, how was school? How was work?
You know, how did your conversation with so-and-so go? And you get a very flat
(07:52):
response, one or two words, not communicative.
That is communication to you that that is not going to be a conversation that takes off,
the other person really isn't going to be able to jump in and be a partner in
that conversation with you.
(08:12):
So that in itself is communication, like, is this a good time? Is this a good topic?
Another way to ask can just be very directly.
You could say, hey, I feel like like, I haven't heard about your life lately.
I'd really love to hear about it, but I know that sometimes that doesn't work for you.
(08:35):
Would you like to talk or have quiet time? And then they could let you know.
Particularly if you're driving home from something, for example,
that had a lot of relevance, and most people would like to talk about it afterward.
Let's say you're taking your family member home after they gave a performance at a concert hall.
(09:00):
And usually people would want to hear accolades from you, encouragement,
that you really enjoyed it.
What did they think? How did they feel about it?
But if we check ourselves with that golden rule again and think,
oh, I should actually base this on what the other person needs right now, you could say,
(09:24):
oh, I'm filled with things I'm excited to share with you about the concert,
but I know you might need quiet time. What do you prefer?
And a lot of times they'll be able to answer that.
And later in the
evening after they've had some quiet time they
might approach and they might say what did
(09:47):
you think about this part and then you have the communication that they are
their meter is back up to having enough there to talk about that topic they
may not have enough to talk about more global big life issues,
but they've introduced this topic.
(10:09):
They would like to process the topic with you.
One issue of timing that you'll want to watch and respond to appropriately has
to do with their internal state.
So if the person is dysregulated, in, it's probably not a good time to talk.
(10:29):
Now, some people, particularly non-autistic individuals, may have a preference
to talk when they're dysregulated because it helps them process.
Oh, I'm really upset. I want to talk.
In general, the autistic individual may be more likely to feel like,
(10:52):
gosh, talking in general is draining for me.
I'm already drained, so don't talk to me right now.
Perhaps they shut down. Perhaps they leave to go into another room.
These are demonstrations of them communicating, what I need right now is space and quiet.
Or if they're dysregulated, the individual may process that big emotion by talking,
(11:21):
but they may not want a talking partner.
So this individual may pace in their room and put their headphones on and talk
out loud about what happened,
about their day and process their day and pace and walk and listen to the the headphone music.
(11:43):
Or they may process.
In an externalized talking way to a person, but they really don't want the person
to contribute to the conversation.
They need a sounding board that doesn't respond.
Like, I need to process this. I need to get it out. I'm going to be talking
(12:04):
to you, but don't talk. Don't talk back to me.
Don't tell me not to feel what I'm feeling. Don't tell me what I should have
said. Don't tell me what I could do.
Just be a person that I can emote to and then I'll feel better.
So if you find that this individual is dysregulated, upset, something has really
(12:29):
overwhelmed them, if they are talking to you, it may be for the purpose of getting it out.
And any attempts that we make to resonate with their feelings,
to contribute a thought,
to tell an example of how that happened to us as well, that may be more dysregulating,
(12:53):
more destabilizing to the situation.
So if the person is more upset after you say that, consider just listening.
Now, sometimes times the person may need to get this angst out,
this feeling of overwhelmed, really upset... out for a very long time.
(13:15):
And it may be that one person can't serve to be the sounding board every time
or for the entire length of time. And that is fine as well.
So you could say to this person, hey, you know what? I'm really glad you're sharing that with me.
I'm finding that my.
(13:36):
I'm finding that what I really need in this moment is some quiet time and I'll
be able to listen to your concerns better if I have a break.
So would you like to write down your concerns and email them to me?
Would you like to make a recording and I'll listen to them later when I can
(13:59):
pay more attention to them.
But for now, I really need some quiet time and alone time.
So you're acknowledging that what they need is important.
You're realizing the purpose that talking to you serves.
And you're setting a boundary. You know, I can't listen to the upset set for
(14:22):
an hour and still be okay myself.
But here are some alternatives.
One thing that I just introduced here that we can also think about in communication,
if it's kind of going awry, we have a stumbling block here.
One way to decrease the drain of the conversation and An increase to the success
(14:47):
of having a good exchange could be to reduce the demands on the other person during that exchange.
So let's take, again, an autistic individual who is going to be part of this conversation.
It may be draining to them to have to make eye contact during this conversation.
(15:09):
It may be draining if you, if you're speaking to them, if you have a high emotional
tone or high intensity in your voice,
that can be very heightening to their nervous system.
So one thing we could do is, you know, think about maybe this person speaks
(15:32):
best if we are sitting on the porch in the dark at night looking at the stars.
And we're both looking at the sky. We're not looking at each other.
And maybe this person converses best when my tone is very matter-of-fact,
and I can just really reduce any demand on them to take care of my emotions.
(15:59):
That was an example too of the technique where I said you could offer that the
person emails you about their thoughts and feelings.
So let's say you want to converse with someone but their social meter is really low.
You might text them or email them a conversation starter that they can absorb
(16:23):
and look at and think about and respond to later in their own timing and in their own way,
sometimes that allows for more success in this exchange.
So the goal isn't that we have a face-to-face conversation.
The goal is that we just have a nice connecting, communicating moment.
(16:45):
Moment so sometimes part of
our approach is an adjustment of
our expectations so what
is my goal would it be nice if every single person wanted to have the same type
of conversation with me in the moment that I wanted to have it well yes that
(17:07):
would be nice it's just not how people work.
It's not how humanity works.
So if there is a disconnect in the conversation, think about what is my actual goal?
What would feel like, oh, that went well.
And then what can I let go to maybe reach that goal better?
(17:32):
Can I let this take place over email?
Can I make the exchange more topic-focused?
Can I reduce my intensity during the conversation?
So what does this person need? Am I adjusting the topic to them?
Am I adjusting the timing?
(17:52):
Am I reducing things that might be draining?
Let's take some examples. Let's take an example of a woman who is married to
an autistic gentleman who works full-time outside the home,
and the woman is a homemaker full-time for their four children.
(18:15):
And one thing she longs for is some adult connecting time.
And of course, all of the kids have their individual needs.
Their needs change daily. The dynamic of the house changes daily.
And her husband has his own nervous system, his own pace for the day at work.
(18:37):
And so it's very difficult to find time to connect in any way that feels satisfying. unsatisfying.
So perhaps they say, well, we'll have a date night, you know,
once a week, and they go to a restaurant, and they look at each other,
and they eat, and the date night is really,
(18:59):
kind of unsatisfying.
Like this isn't really very fun. It's not very connecting.
One thing for her to consider is, you know, what day of the week is the date night? Is it after work?
Is it at the end of a long day where maybe he was working on household projects
(19:22):
and it's not really fitting well timing-wise for him?
What are the topics that we're going to talk about?
Are we talking about the kids and are we talking about thoughts and feelings
and relationship issues and what the neighbor's son is doing at college?
(19:46):
Or are we talking about topics that are interesting and that might pique his
social meter to say, oh yeah, I could talk about this.
The other thing about having dinner together is that it does set up a nice opportunity
to connect conversationally,
(20:08):
but it is a very conversation-focused kind of event.
So we're sitting looking at each other and we're waiting for our food or we're
looking at the menu and it does,
the demand for stimulating conversation is very high.
(20:30):
So it's understandable that the wife looks forward to that and wants that to
meet her need for connecting with her husband and having a really kind of stimulating
interpersonal interaction.
It just may not be realistic, though, for their lives and his nervous system
(20:53):
and her needs for multiple reasons.
One thing she could consider is, how could I get some of my social relational
conversation needs met with other people as well?
I'm probably not going to be able to rely only on my spouse to meet my relational
(21:17):
needs, especially since relational conversations are draining for him.
So how can I take care of myself by getting those needs met in multiple other
ways so I'm not just relying on this one person?
Another thing to think about would be the venue. Like, is eating at a restaurant
(21:40):
really the best way that we connect?
Maybe there's an activity that they could do where you're not face-to-face,
it's not completely conversation-driven, and they could maybe laugh at what
happens during the activity.
So maybe they could go bowling or go hiking to a new place with a specific,
(22:05):
like, oh, let's go to this overlook point and take pictures and let's do this
scavenger hunt and let's go to trivia night.
It may not be what she envisions in her romantic idea of connecting emotionally,
but it's very likely that she'll walk away from those with good memories,
(22:27):
with good feelings, saying, oh, that was really a good connecting time.
Let's take another example of a parent trying to connect with a child.
Teenage or young adult child who is on the autism spectrum.
(22:49):
And because of the age of the child, the connecting of a parent and a child
ends up being more conversational in some ways.
And that's just been really difficult to get a rhythm for.
So the parents feel disconnected with this individual, and they're not quite
sure how to connect if conversation isn't going to be really satisfying.
(23:14):
So they could take a similar approach of what timing works best for this individual.
How do we keep the emotional intensity down?
How do we read the cues of this individual about when the timing is right or not right?
(23:35):
And respond to them in a way that really leaves us feeling satisfied that we connected.
One thing to think about is what are the favorite topics for this individual?
Ask the person to teach you a new thing about this topic or say,
hey, what's your opinion about the theory that Napoleon did this or that?
(23:58):
Or what would have happened if he took a different route?
You could ask the individual to show you his favorite YouTube videos from this past month.
Another way to set up timing that works well in a venue that works well is to
plan a once a week time for connecting.
(24:21):
So we go out to dinner once a week at this place or we go and do an outside
activity once a week and we take turns picking the activity.
So the person is prepared that we connect at this time, we're doing this activity.
If they are going to go to a restaurant, they might want to work the topic into
(24:48):
the conversation. So let's do trivia at the table.
Let's talk about football statistics.
Whatever brings the conversation to be topic focused, the timing is meeting
with what the other person needs as well.
And our expectations are just for a nice connecting time,
(25:13):
then we can feel really satisfied with that plan, with that outcome,
and go home and say, oh, that was a really nice time. We laughed.
We had some silly mistakes.
We had silly things happen. And now we have good memories. I feel like we had a good time.
(25:35):
So what have we talked about?
Those times that we want to have a good connection and the conversation or the
moments that we try to connect seem to fall flat or they lead to an argument
or our feelings get hurt, we're confused, our needs aren't met.
One thing to keep in mind is not what would I want in this moment,
(25:59):
but if our goal is really for a good connecting experience, what kind of sets that up for this person?
Are they topic focused? Are they project focused? Are they relationally focused?
How about the timing of things? Are they drained out?
Are they ready to talk? If they're ready to talk, do they want me to contribute?
(26:23):
If not, what kind of boundary could
there be? What kind of alternatives to talking could there be? Email?
Texting? How could we set up a good interaction when the individual isn't dysregulated or upset.
Perhaps we have a schedule for connecting together, a routine,
(26:45):
just a family tradition.
We play board games on this night,
and maybe board games is a great way to connect, have an event, a topic.
We're not looking at each other's
eyes. We're not waiting to hear what conversation is going to come up.
It's also just a good reminder reminder that we're not going to be relying on
(27:07):
this person or any one person, whether that's a spouse,
a child, a workmate, to meet all of our needs all the time.
So sitting back to think, what was the need I had that didn't get met in this conversation?
And how could I go after that a different way? Thanks for joining me for this
(27:28):
first episode of our new series on communicating and making that more satisfying in these.
Thanks for joining me for this first episode of a new series on communicating and connecting.
And this episode was specifically about those conversational moments,
(27:52):
those kind of episodes where we want to connect.
Next time, we will have an episode about using conversation to build relationships,
to move past hurt, to really strengthen a broad relationship connection.
I hope you'll join me.
Music.
(00:09):
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the podcast, Autism in the Adult.
I am your host, Dr. Theresa Regan. I'm a neuropsychologist, so I understand how
the brain connections and the health of the brain impact things like thinking skills, also emotions,
behaviors, and personalities.
(00:30):
I'm a certified autism specialist, the mother of a young adult on the autism
spectrum. We're starting a new series here on the podcast about communication.
You know how sometimes you're going through your week, and whether it's emails.
or telephone calls or people around you, there are themes that seem to be creeping
(00:51):
up. And that's really happened to me lately with the theme of communication.
How do I communicate in a really satisfying way with someone?
And this is across all of us, right? We just really want sometimes to use communication for connection.
And we might have a conversation with someone and walk away feeling like,
(01:14):
gosh, that was really just not very satisfying.
I feel like it just didn't go well.
So we're going to do a series,
and this first episode is about using communication when the goal is really
just to connect in a conversation.
There are no large relationship goals. There's no tricky subjects that we have to talk about.
(01:40):
It's really just, gosh, I really would love to connect with this person.
And I feel like I'm going about it the wrong way or I'm just missing the mark.
The next episode will be about using communication when the goal is connecting
in a larger relationship.
(02:01):
So how do we use communication to help our relationship get unstuck or kind
of move on from past hurts or strengthen the relationship?
And the third will be about communicating when we have some difficult topic
to talk about, a challenge to overcome,
a problem to solve, and how to help that process of communicating feel effective
(02:29):
and impactful rather than feeling like we're at a stalemate or we've hurt our relationship.
So today, our focus again is on on connecting through conversation.
And I think that one of the places we go wrong in trying to do this is relying on the golden rule.
(02:51):
And you might say, how could we go wrong relying on the golden rule?
Because it is golden. So, the golden rule is treat others the way that you would want them to treat you.
And indeed, that sounds really helpful, and it's good in many circumstances.
But in reality, because we know that we all have different past experiences,
(03:17):
we all have different nervous systems, we all have different personalities.
Really, we need to be able to connect with someone in the way that they need
to connect or communicate.
So keeping in mind this rule, what does this person need right now in the form
(03:38):
of communication can help us have more satisfying experiences where we go away feeling like,
oh, that worked better.
Maybe it wasn't the way I instinctually communicate.
Maybe it wasn't the way I had planned for things to go. But when I focused on
what this person needs during communication, it really helped to set a much
(04:03):
better tone, and it felt good.
So for the purposes of today's episode, let's talk about what to keep in mind
if the conversation is between an autistic and a non-autistic.
So for the individual on the autism spectrum in general, their social conversation
(04:25):
energy meter is going to be lower.
So their system isn't going to be driven as much to communicate just to socially
connect, to talk about the day, to talk about feelings.
In general they're going to prefer
to talk about topics or
(04:47):
projects or facts, and they may have favorite topics that they would like to
talk about over other topics. They're going to tend to communicate less just
for social-emotional purposes -- let me hear what your thoughts are,
let me get closer to you emotionally.
(05:08):
That may not be their go-to kind of communication.
And that type of communication may be fine, but it'll take up some more energy for them.
In addition to thinking about their social meter and how filled or drained they
are, it's good to think about whether the conversation is going to be topic-focused.
(05:35):
Or whether you're going to be focusing on relational sharing.
If it's going to be topic-focused and it's a topic that they are interested
in, they're going to have much more energy for that.
And in fact, it may be that it fills them up with their energy.
If you're going to ask them to talk about their internal world and listen to
(06:02):
what's going on in your internal world,
that will take a lot more energy, and their social meter may not be able to spare that.
So if a parent is in a car and picks up their child from school and wants to
hear about their day, their experiences, what they liked, what they didn't like,
that may be the wrong timing,
(06:25):
for a social conversation.
I've just gone to school. I'm really drained.
I don't have the bandwidth to
then talk about how I felt and what happened between me and other people.
So the timing of what we're asking someone to talk about is important in combination
(06:47):
with understanding how much drain the type of conversation might have.
Is this a social conversation or a topic-focused conversation?
There are some individuals, particularly on the the autism spectrum who tend
to be night owls and not a morning person.
(07:07):
So if you are someone who loves to talk in the morning and you get up chipper
and energetic, and you want people to talk about how they're doing and,
you know, what their plan is for the day and all of that kind of thing,
you know, the other person may have a very low bandwidth for that in the morning,
(07:29):
but perhaps they have a higher bandwidth in the evening.
One way to measure the bandwidth is to see how they respond to your cues to
try to strike up a conversation.
So if you say, how was school? How was work?
You know, how did your conversation with so-and-so go? And you get a very flat
(07:52):
response, one or two words, not communicative.
That is communication to you that that is not going to be a conversation that takes off,
the other person really isn't going to be able to jump in and be a partner in
that conversation with you.
(08:12):
So that in itself is communication, like, is this a good time? Is this a good topic?
Another way to ask can just be very directly.
You could say, hey, I feel like like, I haven't heard about your life lately.
I'd really love to hear about it, but I know that sometimes that doesn't work for you.
(08:35):
Would you like to talk or have quiet time? And then they could let you know.
Particularly if you're driving home from something, for example,
that had a lot of relevance, and most people would like to talk about it afterward.
Let's say you're taking your family member home after they gave a performance at a concert hall.
(09:00):
And usually people would want to hear accolades from you, encouragement,
that you really enjoyed it.
What did they think? How did they feel about it?
But if we check ourselves with that golden rule again and think,
oh, I should actually base this on what the other person needs right now, you could say,
(09:24):
oh, I'm filled with things I'm excited to share with you about the concert,
but I know you might need quiet time. What do you prefer?
And a lot of times they'll be able to answer that.
And later in the
evening after they've had some quiet time they
might approach and they might say what did
(09:47):
you think about this part and then you have the communication that they are
their meter is back up to having enough there to talk about that topic they
may not have enough to talk about more global big life issues,
but they've introduced this topic.
(10:09):
They would like to process the topic with you.
One issue of timing that you'll want to watch and respond to appropriately has
to do with their internal state.
So if the person is dysregulated, in, it's probably not a good time to talk.
(10:29):
Now, some people, particularly non-autistic individuals, may have a preference
to talk when they're dysregulated because it helps them process.
Oh, I'm really upset. I want to talk.
In general, the autistic individual may be more likely to feel like,
(10:52):
gosh, talking in general is draining for me.
I'm already drained, so don't talk to me right now.
Perhaps they shut down. Perhaps they leave to go into another room.
These are demonstrations of them communicating, what I need right now is space and quiet.
Or if they're dysregulated, the individual may process that big emotion by talking,
(11:21):
but they may not want a talking partner.
So this individual may pace in their room and put their headphones on and talk
out loud about what happened,
about their day and process their day and pace and walk and listen to the the headphone music.
(11:43):
Or they may process.
In an externalized talking way to a person, but they really don't want the person
to contribute to the conversation.
They need a sounding board that doesn't respond.
Like, I need to process this. I need to get it out. I'm going to be talking
(12:04):
to you, but don't talk. Don't talk back to me.
Don't tell me not to feel what I'm feeling. Don't tell me what I should have
said. Don't tell me what I could do.
Just be a person that I can emote to and then I'll feel better.
So if you find that this individual is dysregulated, upset, something has really
(12:29):
overwhelmed them, if they are talking to you, it may be for the purpose of getting it out.
And any attempts that we make to resonate with their feelings,
to contribute a thought,
to tell an example of how that happened to us as well, that may be more dysregulating,
(12:53):
more destabilizing to the situation.
So if the person is more upset after you say that, consider just listening.
Now, sometimes times the person may need to get this angst out,
this feeling of overwhelmed, really upset... out for a very long time.
(13:15):
And it may be that one person can't serve to be the sounding board every time
or for the entire length of time. And that is fine as well.
So you could say to this person, hey, you know what? I'm really glad you're sharing that with me.
I'm finding that my.
(13:36):
I'm finding that what I really need in this moment is some quiet time and I'll
be able to listen to your concerns better if I have a break.
So would you like to write down your concerns and email them to me?
Would you like to make a recording and I'll listen to them later when I can
(13:59):
pay more attention to them.
But for now, I really need some quiet time and alone time.
So you're acknowledging that what they need is important.
You're realizing the purpose that talking to you serves.
And you're setting a boundary. You know, I can't listen to the upset set for
(14:22):
an hour and still be okay myself.
But here are some alternatives.
One thing that I just introduced here that we can also think about in communication,
if it's kind of going awry, we have a stumbling block here.
One way to decrease the drain of the conversation and An increase to the success
(14:47):
of having a good exchange could be to reduce the demands on the other person during that exchange.
So let's take, again, an autistic individual who is going to be part of this conversation.
It may be draining to them to have to make eye contact during this conversation.
(15:09):
It may be draining if you, if you're speaking to them, if you have a high emotional
tone or high intensity in your voice,
that can be very heightening to their nervous system.
So one thing we could do is, you know, think about maybe this person speaks
(15:32):
best if we are sitting on the porch in the dark at night looking at the stars.
And we're both looking at the sky. We're not looking at each other.
And maybe this person converses best when my tone is very matter-of-fact,
and I can just really reduce any demand on them to take care of my emotions.
(15:59):
That was an example too of the technique where I said you could offer that the
person emails you about their thoughts and feelings.
So let's say you want to converse with someone but their social meter is really low.
You might text them or email them a conversation starter that they can absorb
(16:23):
and look at and think about and respond to later in their own timing and in their own way,
sometimes that allows for more success in this exchange.
So the goal isn't that we have a face-to-face conversation.
The goal is that we just have a nice connecting, communicating moment.
(16:45):
Moment so sometimes part of
our approach is an adjustment of
our expectations so what
is my goal would it be nice if every single person wanted to have the same type
of conversation with me in the moment that I wanted to have it well yes that
(17:07):
would be nice it's just not how people work.
It's not how humanity works.
So if there is a disconnect in the conversation, think about what is my actual goal?
What would feel like, oh, that went well.
And then what can I let go to maybe reach that goal better?
(17:32):
Can I let this take place over email?
Can I make the exchange more topic-focused?
Can I reduce my intensity during the conversation?
So what does this person need? Am I adjusting the topic to them?
Am I adjusting the timing?
(17:52):
Am I reducing things that might be draining?
Let's take some examples. Let's take an example of a woman who is married to
an autistic gentleman who works full-time outside the home,
and the woman is a homemaker full-time for their four children.
(18:15):
And one thing she longs for is some adult connecting time.
And of course, all of the kids have their individual needs.
Their needs change daily. The dynamic of the house changes daily.
And her husband has his own nervous system, his own pace for the day at work.
(18:37):
And so it's very difficult to find time to connect in any way that feels satisfying. unsatisfying.
So perhaps they say, well, we'll have a date night, you know,
once a week, and they go to a restaurant, and they look at each other,
and they eat, and the date night is really,
(18:59):
kind of unsatisfying.
Like this isn't really very fun. It's not very connecting.
One thing for her to consider is, you know, what day of the week is the date night? Is it after work?
Is it at the end of a long day where maybe he was working on household projects
(19:22):
and it's not really fitting well timing-wise for him?
What are the topics that we're going to talk about?
Are we talking about the kids and are we talking about thoughts and feelings
and relationship issues and what the neighbor's son is doing at college?
(19:46):
Or are we talking about topics that are interesting and that might pique his
social meter to say, oh yeah, I could talk about this.
The other thing about having dinner together is that it does set up a nice opportunity
to connect conversationally,
(20:08):
but it is a very conversation-focused kind of event.
So we're sitting looking at each other and we're waiting for our food or we're
looking at the menu and it does,
the demand for stimulating conversation is very high.
(20:30):
So it's understandable that the wife looks forward to that and wants that to
meet her need for connecting with her husband and having a really kind of stimulating
interpersonal interaction.
It just may not be realistic, though, for their lives and his nervous system
(20:53):
and her needs for multiple reasons.
One thing she could consider is, how could I get some of my social relational
conversation needs met with other people as well?
I'm probably not going to be able to rely only on my spouse to meet my relational
(21:17):
needs, especially since relational conversations are draining for him.
So how can I take care of myself by getting those needs met in multiple other
ways so I'm not just relying on this one person?
Another thing to think about would be the venue. Like, is eating at a restaurant
(21:40):
really the best way that we connect?
Maybe there's an activity that they could do where you're not face-to-face,
it's not completely conversation-driven, and they could maybe laugh at what
happens during the activity.
So maybe they could go bowling or go hiking to a new place with a specific,
(22:05):
like, oh, let's go to this overlook point and take pictures and let's do this
scavenger hunt and let's go to trivia night.
It may not be what she envisions in her romantic idea of connecting emotionally,
but it's very likely that she'll walk away from those with good memories,
(22:27):
with good feelings, saying, oh, that was really a good connecting time.
Let's take another example of a parent trying to connect with a child.
Teenage or young adult child who is on the autism spectrum.
(22:49):
And because of the age of the child, the connecting of a parent and a child
ends up being more conversational in some ways.
And that's just been really difficult to get a rhythm for.
So the parents feel disconnected with this individual, and they're not quite
sure how to connect if conversation isn't going to be really satisfying.
(23:14):
So they could take a similar approach of what timing works best for this individual.
How do we keep the emotional intensity down?
How do we read the cues of this individual about when the timing is right or not right?
(23:35):
And respond to them in a way that really leaves us feeling satisfied that we connected.
One thing to think about is what are the favorite topics for this individual?
Ask the person to teach you a new thing about this topic or say,
hey, what's your opinion about the theory that Napoleon did this or that?
(23:58):
Or what would have happened if he took a different route?
You could ask the individual to show you his favorite YouTube videos from this past month.
Another way to set up timing that works well in a venue that works well is to
plan a once a week time for connecting.
(24:21):
So we go out to dinner once a week at this place or we go and do an outside
activity once a week and we take turns picking the activity.
So the person is prepared that we connect at this time, we're doing this activity.
If they are going to go to a restaurant, they might want to work the topic into
(24:48):
the conversation. So let's do trivia at the table.
Let's talk about football statistics.
Whatever brings the conversation to be topic focused, the timing is meeting
with what the other person needs as well.
And our expectations are just for a nice connecting time,
(25:13):
then we can feel really satisfied with that plan, with that outcome,
and go home and say, oh, that was a really nice time. We laughed.
We had some silly mistakes.
We had silly things happen. And now we have good memories. I feel like we had a good time.
(25:35):
So what have we talked about?
Those times that we want to have a good connection and the conversation or the
moments that we try to connect seem to fall flat or they lead to an argument
or our feelings get hurt, we're confused, our needs aren't met.
One thing to keep in mind is not what would I want in this moment,
(25:59):
but if our goal is really for a good connecting experience, what kind of sets that up for this person?
Are they topic focused? Are they project focused? Are they relationally focused?
How about the timing of things? Are they drained out?
Are they ready to talk? If they're ready to talk, do they want me to contribute?
(26:23):
If not, what kind of boundary could
there be? What kind of alternatives to talking could there be? Email?
Texting? How could we set up a good interaction when the individual isn't dysregulated or upset.
Perhaps we have a schedule for connecting together, a routine,
(26:45):
just a family tradition.
We play board games on this night,
and maybe board games is a great way to connect, have an event, a topic.
We're not looking at each other's
eyes. We're not waiting to hear what conversation is going to come up.
It's also just a good reminder reminder that we're not going to be relying on
(27:07):
this person or any one person, whether that's a spouse,
a child, a workmate, to meet all of our needs all the time.
So sitting back to think, what was the need I had that didn't get met in this conversation?
And how could I go after that a different way? Thanks for joining me for this
(27:28):
first episode of our new series on communicating and making that more satisfying in these.
Thanks for joining me for this first episode of a new series on communicating and connecting.
And this episode was specifically about those conversational moments,
(27:52):
those kind of episodes where we want to connect.
Next time, we will have an episode about using conversation to build relationships,
to move past hurt, to really strengthen a broad relationship connection.
I hope you'll join me.
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