#22 Wesley | In prison for 4251 days, sex in prison, going from prisoner to citizen - Bang Two Three Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
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(00:20):
Hey,
nothing,
nothing's anonymous nowadays,
bro,
how many people would you say have cell phones in,
in prison?
I,
I would say it would depend on the uh facility but the last facility I was at uh oddly enough,
I was at a minimum security annex.
So it was minimum trustees which there were very few of I was one of and then the rest of the guys were minimum what they call minimum direct,

(00:42):
direct supervision by a staff member.
But uh I'd say there was probably only one or two phones there at the annex which is unheard of where I came from.
I been at another facility on the east side of the state and every other cell had at least one cellphone,
you know,
I mean,
it was that li li there was that many there?

(01:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Damn.
So the,
so the other one,
you said there was one cell phone per sale and how many people in the cell?
Uh,
most,
most of the time out there it was the two people per sale.
Uh,
but yeah,
it was,
it was pretty turned up at the,
our facility.
I don't,
I don't wanna put them on blast because they showed me a lot of love while I was there to make me a lot of money also.

(01:25):
But uh but uh they uh yeah,
there was,
there was a lot of,
a lot of,
and,
and,
and how do,
how do they,
how do they get the phones into the prison without revealing any top secret shit?
Ok.
Well,
first off,
there's no new hustle in prison,
there's no new way of doing anything.

(01:46):
Everything is recycled.
So let's say the normal way is guy runs up to the fence with a duffel bag and throws it over in the middle of the night.
They've been doing that for 100 years,
you know.
So that's been burned,
you know,
they put barriers up cameras deep seeking cameras so they recycle the waves.
It's kind of like they do at the border,
you know,
it's like you,
you throw much,
so much shit at the border something's gonna get through and it does fucking hell,

(02:11):
man.
So,
oh OK.
OK.
Just to how,
so how long were you in prison?
I was in for 4000 $251.
It's about 11 years,
six months and two weeks.
Oh my God,
fuck,
man.
And this is yo.
And if I've seen you at mcdonald's,
I was just like,
oh,
he's a nice looking guy.

(02:32):
But you have been through some fucking shit,
man.
People don't realize that prison is crazy.
This is why I wanted to talk to you people just forget that we have a lot of fucking people in prison in America.
I think we're like one of the most imprisoned countries in the world.
And I think,
yeah,
I think they said we got 25% of the world's incarcerated population,

(02:55):
but we only have like 100 of the world's population or something like that.
I,
I don't remember the exact ratio but it's an ungodly amount else.
Fuck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And,
and people just forget that we could,
we have tons of fucking people in there and they,
by the way,
like their life is not good.
Uh So uh a lot of times people are,
I've heard whenever people go down for a long time,

(03:18):
they get locked up for a long ass time like you were 11 years and they come out,
they talk about like the culture shock,
right?
Because they come out to a brand new world,
right?
Shit changes.
And so since you and,
and how many,
how long have you been out?
Two weeks.
All right.
So,
since you've been out for two weeks,
what's been like the biggest culture shock or the most shocking thing you've seen uh sticker shock would be the first thing and my brother and friends warned me about it.

(03:44):
Uh But honestly,
uh with probably any man that were released from prison,
like would be the,
the interaction,
I mean,
just seeing more than a neckline or wrist,
you know what I mean?
And then I come out into a world of,
you know,
athletic wear.
I,
I don't even know how to describe it.
I mean,
it's all like Lyra or whatever breading they're using nowadays to make clothes.

(04:08):
It was,
it's,
it's still jarring.
I've been out two weeks and it's like I was up here,
I'm doing it to myself.
It's like,
you know,
I straight ahead kind of thing because it's,
it's,
it's shit.
It,
it really is shell shock.
Like literally the females that you would see,
you know,
we had hot C Os,
we had attractive medical staff and teachers and IMR and stuff like that.
But they're in a prison environment if they're not wearing smocks or,

(04:31):
I mean,
some of the nurses wore like tight scrubs or whatever you wanna call them.
But I mean,
like you're not seeing any,
you're not seeing a lot of form fitting clothing.
So getting out to that was,
I mean,
it was almost honestly,
it was like going to a strip club for the first time,
It's like,
it's like you didn't know where to look,
you know?
And I'm still like two weeks on two weeks in,

(04:51):
I'm still like,
I,
I just,
I just can't believe it's like that.
I mean,
everyone,
everyone like little kids,
they freaking grannies.
They're all like bale.
It's crazy.
Yo.
So,
so was it like that before you got locked up or do you remember?
No,
I mean,
no,
I,
I,
I of course I was involved in,
in the dope game and shit.

(05:12):
So I wasn't going too far from the house most of the time.
But uh I don't remember it being that I don't remember everything being like over sexual.
Well,
I retract that I have a daughter.
She was eight at the time and I do remember me and my wife at the time uh discussing about how bad the cuts of the jeans were.
So we were buying her boys jeans because they were like hi riders or I don't know what the terminology is.

(05:37):
They were cut very provocative,
you know,
for adolescent kids,
preteen kids.
So I do remember that.
So I know it thought he was probably trending towards that to begin with.
But like now it's just like I said it,
I,
I think it's out of hand.
I mean,
I don't know,
I'm processing it.
I'm like,
hey,
man,
hey,
that's so interesting that you said that because yo,

(05:59):
this shit is crazy.
Listen,
I,
I,
I haven't been locked up or whatever and I've,
I've seen the transition but these yoga pants and like you said,
the cut now they have like these little bitty,
like skin tight shorts and they pull them up their crotch to where you can see every little,
if they have a pimple on their pussy,
you could probably pop it through the fucking shorts or something like that.

(06:22):
And yo,
it's crazy.
And I'm,
listen,
I'm a married man,
you know,
and,
and it's like,
man,
how do you not look?
How do you not look?
Thank goodness that a lot of them,
you look and they don't,
you know,
they don't cuss you out or anything like that.
It's,
you know,
it's,
I mean,
I,
I'm literally seeing more clothing or less provocative wear,

(06:42):
you know,
I used to be in and out the uh the clubs I was younger uh doing the hustle thing and stuff and I started going to strip club here in Memphis when I was 17 years old.
I had my own VIP card,
you know,
when it was hard to get in if you were 21.
So,
you know,
I'm,
I'm,
I'm,
you know,
like I said,
an adolescent going doing my thing.
But uh so I see girls with more clothing on showing less stuff than girl.

(07:06):
I see Kmart or,
but what uh at the store,
you know what I'm saying?
It's like,
yeah,
you know,
it's just like it is overwhelming but you know,
just taking any man.
Uh yo,
it's nuts and it's so,
it's so crazy.
You said that I think nowadays it's just,
hey,
look,
everybody needs five gallons of attention every fucking day.

(07:29):
And I think these girls have realized that,
hey,
if my pussy and ass is out,
I'm gonna get a lot of attention and it fucking works.
Uh So what,
what you get locked up for?
Uh I was arrested for initiation of methamphetamine process with shake and bait situation,
one pot method or whatever they call it possession with intent to manufacture,

(07:51):
cell deliver drug prey tools on their hands.
Mm oh So what exactly were you doing?
Like those charges?
Kind of don't mean a lot.
OK.
Uh The initiation is the manufacturing of the myth.
This was back before they had the super dope that's coming from China in Mexico.
You know,
you would send people to Walgreens or shook or CV S or whatever to get through the fields and then,

(08:14):
you know,
break them down and mix your chemicals together,
go through the process and have do some do in a few hours.
Uh So I was doing that.
I had done that earlier in the day or m through the night.
I was done with that.
I was uh chilling at the house when uh add some people over and uh of course,
being a sweeper drug addict drug manufacturer,

(08:38):
you know,
I had a eight M R D V R system set up and I see the raid coming very,
uh,
very surreal.
Very.
What did you have any in indication beforehand that maybe the cops were on to you?
Uh No,
I mean,
it was something that was always there because I tried to keep my circle of people that I served pretty,

(08:58):
pretty set.
Uh I,
I knew how to recognize,
like if someone disappeared for like more than 24 hours,
they better had a good explanation to me,
you know,
uh,
as to where they were at because that's how heroid I was because,
uh,
I mean,
I was checking,
we had a local system called J S si which the court you arrest affidavits and people be processing just busted was a big thing back then.

(09:22):
I don't even know if they still have that.
But,
uh,
you know,
I'm watching that kind of stuff because I caught somebody like that.
Somebody got arrested and lied to me about it.
I,
I just let them dig their hole now,
of course they weren't flipping on me or whatever,
but they were just scared that I wasn't gonna serve them no more because they got arrested and they were right to be fair with those.
But it made it worse when they lied to me about it.

(09:42):
You know,
it was the whole thing.
Drugs are horrible.
Holy shit.
OK.
So I'm not gonna ask you the detail process,
but on a scale of 1 to 10,
how easy is it to cook meth?
Um I would say safely a seven.
Uh and I would just not a stretch of the truth.

(10:04):
It's just being objective.
I'd say any kid in high school could do it.
I mean,
it,
it,
it was that simple when I first heard about it.
Uh You know,
I'm not a chemist or,
or anything like that.
I had heard of the one pop method.
I was like,
that doesn't even make any sense to me or like I said,
I'm not a chemist because I call bullshit.
Tell me about it because at the time I was manufacturing and hydro ammonia dope,

(10:25):
the actual drawn out meth kind of like breaking bad kind of thing.
Whereas this other method,
the one pot method is like,
like I said,
I mean,
you know,
you get what,
what is the one I've never heard of the one pot method?
It,
it's,
you take your precursors which are,
you know,
like the,
the fuel that the uh fuel mixture goes in and you add your and with the battery strips,

(10:50):
a couple of other things,
uh you put it in a like a a one liter bottle shake it,
use it to uh cap you uncap it and allow,
I mean,
because it,
it will explode in bars to pressure,
not flammability,
it will explode due to pressure.
So you just have to constantly bent it because building a massive amount,
a lot of the safest way to do it in a fire that you can screw the cap on and off kind of thing.

(11:13):
And you can actually use the trigger to,
to vent.
Sorry if that's now you're trying to,
it's a very simplified some,
some jackass somewhere came up with a really good idea on how to do shit.
Yo,
man,
stupid people could come up with good ideas.
What,
what's your uh favorite drug you've ever done?

(11:35):
What's the best one?
Oh L S D L s D by far by far.
I uh I,
I thoroughly,
that is the one thing that I allowed myself to do while incarcerated.
That was it,
it was test for it.
Uh I like my,
my little hidden secret because the only one that knows I'm doing it other than the person I got it from.

(11:57):
And that is not a drug you find in prison very often.
So it was a very special,
very special thing to be able to get something.
Yeah.
How much does L S D cost in prison for like one hit?
Like one trip?
You're doing one trip?
How much would that cost?
Uh Oh,
ok.
That doesn't sound bad.
Well,
it now had I sold it,
it would have been probably,

(12:19):
but that was,
that was what it thought me.
Holy shit.
So what,
what would you say is like your second favorite drug behind?
L S D.
Uh probably the,
probably the,
probably the student because I've been,
I was diagnosed 80 H DS or something when I was like in second grade back in the eighties.
So I've always been hyper attention deficit and all that kind of stuff.

(12:42):
Uh I,
let me,
let me say this category.
I don't believe this whole cop out self medicating if you're smoking crack because you've got a tissue deficit.
That's a cop out.
That is,
that is not self medicated.
If you're smoking meth or banging meth or doing meth in any form or abusing Adderall or any of his analogs,
you're not self medicate.

(13:02):
I called him.
Do your ass can go down to the clinic and see somebody and get some psychological medication and in the long run it'll be a lot cheaper.
It might cost you a little bit more on the front end.
But you're asking to go to work when you're on a,
if you're fucking doing meth and staying up 36 hours at a time,
You ain't gonna hold a job,
you're not going to maintain a relationship.

(13:22):
You know what I'm saying?
So this whole someone tried to tell me something about a case worker I met with this week said something about,
oh,
so you were self,
would you say you were self medicating with meth?
I was like hell,
no,
I was a dope head doing meth.
You know what I'm saying.
Yo,
so,
so people really do that.
People really?
Yeah,
they'll snort meth or smoke some crack or,

(13:43):
or,
or whatever and they'll be like,
no,
I listen,
I need this.
I got a DH D does that fly?
I think in today's society it does because everybody's talking out,
you know,
it's like nobody wants to own shit.
This is just my perspective but nobody wants to own any of their shit,
They want to,
you know,
oh you know,
I was in a single parent household and uh I didn't have a father.

(14:06):
This is me.
I'm being sarcastic about myself but like I'm not copping out or,
you know,
waiting on man.
You know,
I grew up with an older brother and my mom,
my mom did the damn thing.
She was a career nurse,
held it down.
She had to deal with my crazy ass and I'm talking about I got arrested at the age of seven for the first time.

(14:26):
I've been bound for prison since birth.
Damn.
Uh And that,
that's something that I talked about with my mom before she passed in the life care thing was,
you know,
I really regret that she was not able to interact with me and see the man um what I should have been.

(14:46):
And uh she told me,
you know,
I started crying and she was like,
no,
I see it.
I've seen it through all her business.
And all that kind of stuff.
Uh And she goes,
I just wish I,
I could have done better and I,
I,
I about lost it,
you know,
uh in a,
in a bad way.
I almost,
I got angry at my dying mother that she would had the tenacity to say that I was like mom,
you don't realize the impact that you had on my life.

(15:08):
I want you to think of it like this because this is how I think it has.
You not shown me the love,
the level of dedication and patience and understanding and,
you know,
unconditional love.
Basically,
if,
if there is such a thing,
I'd have been worse.
I mean,
whatever I had going on,
if I didn't have the moral compass center that my mother had instilled in me,

(15:29):
I mean,
we,
I guarantee we would be happy because I would still be in prison for something,
a lot more heinous.
I'd be dead.
And,
uh,
I think I,
I think I impressed that upon her enough that,
that,
uh,
I mean,
I am who I am in all the good ways because of my mother.
What do you think she meant by?
I wish I would have done better.
Well,
you know,
because her son's in prison,

(15:50):
you know,
she tried,
tried and tried to get me to do the right thing.
But I mean,
that's the only thing I can figure.
So she,
she was,
she was essentially saying that she was disappointed in you.
Probably the person that I had,
I would say fuck.
But she,
she,
she told me that she saw what I had to become the progress that I had made.

(16:10):
She had seen over the years my mother came to visit if not every two weeks,
every uh in the first like six years of incarceration because I was on this side of the state where she lived at and when she wasn't bringing my kids,
my ex-wife was bringing my kids.
So uh you know,
they,
they saw the progress.
I mean from day one,

(16:31):
from the day that I was arrested,
sitting in the back of the police car,
I cried.
My ex wife showed up,
my mom had called because I live in,
the mother lived in,
at the time she was going on with over there and me and my wife were a stranger.
I was seeing my kids every other week.
Maybe I was having to rent a hotel room with a pool,

(16:51):
ok?
This,
this is kind of interesting.
Uh So I don't know if you know this,
there ain't a stupid fucking woman in the world.
They know what the fuck is going on.
So uh I'm living on my own because we're separated because she found out that not only was I doing dope if I was making dough uh in the backyard of the house where our kids lived.

(17:13):
Uh Yeah,
that's,
that's probably about the second most shame feeling I've ever had being back and thinking about the close prox.
Of course,
you know,
I didn't do the dope around with you or I did do the dope in the house,
but that's kind of like a,
just actually like backyard in a shit or whatever.
But,
uh,
it's not cool.

(17:33):
Um,
but,
uh,
my ex-wife,
this thing,
of course,
she was my wife at the time of separate And uh when she came in the car,
I cried,
I was,
and it wasn't out of sadness that I fucked up or you know,
trouble or I'm gonna lose all the stuff I got.
It was man found sense of relief that it was finally,

(17:54):
I finally,
I,
I've been looking to escape the shit at least two years.
I mean,
I've been doing it forever but like actually trying to get out of it.
I was enrolled in school at the time where I'm trying to get my welding certification.
So I work welding my day and cooking dope by night.
I said you can't live in both worlds.
It just don't work.
It's gonna be one of the other.
Holy shit.
So do,

(18:14):
can we go back to?
OK,
you got arrested and then I'm guessing maybe you had your day in court and you got sentenced.
What,
what was that feeling like?
And what was your original sentence?
OK.
Uh So I'll backtrack just a little bit.
So at the scene you know,
as it's all sinking in talking to the,
uh,
called O C U organized crime.

(18:36):
So,
what am I looking at?
You're like,
oh,
68 years,
six years.
That,
that ain't bad,
you know,
at 30% throw out in a few years,
go get cleaned up,
roll out and,
you know,
still get to see my kids get raped.
I wasn't in jail maybe two weeks when the word came about what was really going on.
Uh They were doing stools on the,
uh,
since I was within 1000 ft of a school property.

(18:59):
Um which meant that charge was gonna be elevated from a class B to a class A felony.
And the standard range for the minimum range for that would be 15.
So I was immediately facing 15 years at 100% for the uh small amount of dope that I had in the house.
Uh I got eight years at 30% for the manufacturer but for like the three or four g of meth that actually had produced that money.

(19:27):
I got 15 years data base needs for that.
And,
and what,
what was the first thing that went through your mind when you,
you found that out?
Uh Man,
I wasn't thinking about it.
You can't cross it.
I mean,
I literally couldn't process it.
I mean,
I knew sitting in jail I was,
you know,
I was,
I was done but like I knew that I had begged for it to all be over one way or the other stuff for change and all that.

(19:50):
But I mean,
I didn't process,
it.
Really didn't hit me until,
uh,
I didn't fight the case.
I didn't,
you know,
file motions or hire an attorney to do this,
do that.
Try to pro prolong it out when the,
when the federal prosecutor came over and,
uh,
told me that my federal exposure or P S R,

(20:10):
I don't know,
I've never been fed.
So I don't know all the terminology,
but they said my federal exposure was like 32 on the range of 32 I was facing 240 months minimum.
I was like,
I did the math real quick.
I was like 24 years or whatever it was,
it was like 22 or 24 years.
I was like,
that was after I told I was 15 in the state.
So I think it was really a boo game on the part of the D A s office to be like,

(20:34):
oh,
if you end up taking this fed,
go to bed facing,
you know,
an extra six years.
Uh,
had I done that,
I'd have been out of prison five years ago by the first step back,
they got rid of the mandatory minimum.
I'd have been out of prison five years ago.
But like I talked about with everybody else.
Uh,
I might have been doing my time in South Dakota and never seen my kids,
never seen my mom or been in Wyoming or Biloxi,

(20:56):
Mississippi or for Arkansas or wherever they,
wherever they put you,
wherever they need to.
So I made the right choice going state.
Uh but I took the first thing smoking,
man,
I went from arrest to processing in the state prison in less than six months,
which is pretty damn fast.
Holy shit.
Ok.
Fuck,
man.

(21:17):
I'm gonna be honest.
Ok,
let me get tangent here.
So I thank goodness I've never been to prison,
but I think as a citizen of the damn country,
that's a ridiculous sentence for a guy who's cooking meth.
Right?
I understand.
Right.
Everyone thinks cooking meth is so bad,
it kinda has a stereotype but it just produces some drugs,
right?
I think cooking meth growing weed,

(21:38):
you know,
making anything the same thing.
That's fucking crazy,
bro.
That is crazy for a guy who's cooking meth.
Um OK,
so you got your time,
were you,
what was your like?
Um overall,
I guess thoughts on prison.
Were you scared?
Have you been to jail before?
Did you kind of know what to expect?

(21:59):
I was extremely worried.
I had done uh about a year's worth of time in the county jail.
Uh and you know,
I knew the racial disparity was uh not in my paper,
you know,
I,
I'm,
I'm in the south in Memphis.
Uh There are not too many white guys in at that time,

(22:20):
you know,
why does that matter?
Why?
Why does that matter?
Because people don't realize this?
Why does it matter that you were the minority?
There weren't a lot of white people?
Well,
I mean,
I,
I grew up here in Memphis so it's never been a thing for me.
Uh,
you know,
it's just how I grew up.
So it wasn't a big deal to me.
Uh,
when I got off the bus went through the,

(22:41):
you know,
shaving your face,
taking the picture and then walking into the unit with your bedroll kind of thing.
That,
that's kind of true for them to some of the stuff you see in the movies,
but there aren't really bars,
it's,
you know,
crash doors and individual human cells odd.
But,
uh,
when I went in and shut the door and doors got shut behind me,
you know,
I immediately crashed,
I,
I was over,
over stressed and when I woke up to the noise,

(23:04):
I looked out in the odd,
uh,
I seen like 20 or 30 white guys walking around doing their little,
you know,
one hour time,
I was like,
I had literally never seen that many white people incarcerate because I had done time at the penal farm,
which is what we call a county workhouse here.
And it's like a,
you know,
a three or 4000 bed facility and there was a frequent of white people,

(23:27):
uh,
there but me,
not being affiliated.
Me not being,
you know,
all my done shit.
Uh I never had a problem in jail or a uh that kind of changed.
I was really worried about that with prison because I,
I ain't gonna lie to you.
I asked,
I was very naive to the whole prison thing.
I asked before I left the jail for somebody that had been to prison.

(23:47):
He's like,
yeah,
you're gonna need to click up,
you're gonna need to get affiliate.
I'm sitting here thinking man,
I'm 32 years old for that bullshit.
I don't know nothing about gang banging or you know,
the only white dudes that I knew were affiliated were like Simon City Royals or maybe uh some type of vice war or something.
I mean that was my interaction with white people that were in a gang.

(24:09):
Uh got to prison clean all this.
There was a whole lot of more white people walked up and stu prison than I would have thought based on my experience.
So,
so the you're saying because the the white people click up with the white people and the black people click up with the black people.
There's not like for example,
in,
in prison,
there's not gangs where you have whites and blacks mixed.

(24:34):
Oh oh yeah,
there is.
Uh now I I can only speak from my experience in Tennessee prison.
I understand that California and Texas are very different and maybe some other places but those are very,
you know,
good examples.
In Tennessee,
you got uh white guys that are different part with different sets of different,
you know,

(24:55):
Oak Nation,
Vice Lords.
Uh and,
and,
but you're not gonna have a black guy in a Nation or a black guy,
you know,
the K K K or whatever kind of thing.
But there are,
you know,
white guys that are in predominantly black guys.
OK.
OK.
So what were your first like,
I guess six months in prison?

(25:16):
Like where were you,
were you trying to put it on the front?
I hear a lot of people whenever they go in they try to act tough.
Oh That,
that,
that's a bad idea.
That's a bad idea because prison,
OK?
Prison can't like put it is the elite of the elite of bullshitters,
hustlers,

(25:37):
killers.
Maybe not the smartest ones because we're all there.
But you know what I mean?
These,
you're in a closed off side,
nowhere to hide,
nowhere to run to and there's nothing to do but observe other people's behavior.
So if you get out of character,
you got some kind of thing going on,
seen it,
you know,
where you're portraying yourself with something,

(25:58):
this and this,
this and this and that's all good.
And then you let it slip or someone makes a phone call that you didn't think they could make,
they got a burner in their cell checked up on you,
you're getting thrown off the rail because I've seen it.
You know,
it's,
it's,
you can't go in there.
It ain't like you go in there and pick the biggest guy,
hit them,
you pick the biggest guy and hit them.
I mean,
you might knock them out but you don't know.

(26:19):
I mean,
you just pick somebody that might be the O G of an affiliation,
you know,
that might be the retarded kid,
brother of somebody.
It's like you can't do that.
It's,
it's not like that,
like how it's portrayed in movies and stuff because everybody watches everybody when I say that there is no secrets in prison.
If you let it out of your head,

(26:42):
whether through actions or words or convey it through body language,
it's no longer a secret.
So everything has to stay in your head and you have to live like that because there are no secrets in prison.
You no secrets.
When you tell you selling something,
they're not be for sure if you utter it,
it's getting out.
Yeah.
Holy shit.
And I,
is it true?
I've,
I've heard that um,

(27:03):
whenever they have like new prisoners in that,
a lot of times they'll get scammed or they'll,
they'll run game on them and kind of trick them and trip them up.
Is that true?
Did that happen to you?
I guess we don't want to admit.
So I'm gonna,
I'm going to say that uh at the time the big thing for cash transactions or whatever,

(27:24):
uh free world transactions was green dots.
So at my classification facility,
I repeatedly asked to go to a facility in Northwest Tennessee,
uh just to stay both to the house.
Uh and I was told,
oh no,
you're not gonna go there.
You're gonna get sent to the C C A which is correctional Corporations of America.
And now I think it's four C C A is all indoors,

(27:47):
you know,
long hallways and crash gates and gyms inside and all that kind of stuff and you know,
this,
that and the other.
So I was told from the jump,
I try to send you AC C A.
Don't go.
The dude is like,
uh you know,
I might be able to get you somewhere for like 25 or $50.
That ain't AC C O.
Uh You know,
I was like,
so I hit,
hit old mom up and I was like,

(28:08):
mom,
I need a,
I need a green dot She just didn't know what it was,
had to tell her what it was and go to store and get it.
But he brought me back a uh a I realize now after all the experience I've been in prison,
he went and literally typed up a letter on Microsoft Word and uh made it look like I was going to the place that I want to go to.
Now,
fast forward a couple of days unless these be what they are.

(28:31):
I went to,
to Northwest.
I don't know if dude had anything to do with it or if that's just the way the cars fail.
But I feel like he killed me because I've been a clerk in the administration for the prisons at three different prisons.
So I know what Microsoft Word looks like.
I know what prison transport orders look like and what he had was not a fucking prison transfer.
Holy shit.
So he got,

(28:52):
he got 30 bucks out.
You for a typed up piece of paper on Microsoft Word.
Yeah,
somewhere between 25 50.
I can't remember the exact,
I feel like he got,
I got what I wanted but I still feel like he got damn.
Oh What,
what about OK,
I always hear about this one,
right?
So you go in and whatever and then people like give you stuff,
right?
They're like,
hey,
bro,
here's a cup of coffee.
Hey,

(29:12):
yo,
you wanna got a bag of chips?
Hey,
don't worry about it.
You don't have to pay me back and then they get you in debt like that.
Is that real?
Absolute absolute.
How does let me tell you?
So I've been assigned,
I've moved into my new facility I work with and I'm walking,
I'm leaning on the rail.
Papa,
I gotta sell upstairs on the top and I'm leaning on the top rail and uh let me say this real quick.

(29:38):
So you can know my exact frame of mind and where I was at,
like,
imagine a real petite,
very attractive one of these chicks we see walking around at Target and they're,
and they're a little like her,
we athletic wear bucks them beautiful and all that.
Imagine her walking down a dark alley and seeing like three really big guys in the dark.
She can't make out their faces but they got not now take that and put it into what's going into my head.

(30:03):
Ok.
So I'm on the rail and this guy when I say he saunters,
he was very creepy and he was probably as wide as the door and about this tall and he,
he's like,
babe,
what's going on man new here?
And I was like,
yeah,
he was like doing all right,
I'm like,
yeah,
I'm good,
man.
He goes,
well,
he goes,
my name is blah,
blah,
blah.
He goes,
you got me on the street.

(30:24):
I'm like,
yeah,
yeah,
like they're taking care of you because I can help you.
I'm like,
no man.
My family loves me,
man.
They're taking care of me.
I got a package on order right now and he goes,
I don't uh I just want to let you know,
man,
I got my own,
you need,
you need anything better to get me and oh my God,
I'm talking about,
dude,
I,
I'm still creaked out by that.
I felt really dirty after that conversation.

(30:48):
I mean,
it was like I was,
I really thought like this is it,
This is it.
What,
what do you mean?
This is it,
what,
what you thought he was gonna do to kill you?
Oh,
man,
he was trying,
he was trying,
he was trying to pull me.
You know what I've never,
you know,
I started dope in gay clubs and,
and,
and,
you know,
men who so don't work with anybody hit on anybody.
So I get,
but I had never felt that creeped out in any situation I'd ever been in life like the way dude,

(31:14):
dude was hitting on me and like trying to groom me all in like a three minute conversation.
I mean,
literally I was creeped the fuck out,
you know,
but I,
and I immediately exited the area or whatever.
But you know,
that that's how they try you,
they come and find out what your background is.
If you've got,
you know,
a support structure or family or whatever,
that's,
you know,
financially helping you out because they're looking for the,

(31:36):
the way you.
That's so you're absolutely right there is they are looking to pluck people as soon as they come in,
get them into debt or one of the first thing they ask is what do you do?
You do?
I mean,
what are you into?
What,
what dope you do?
Like,
well,
fortunate for me,
I don't do anything like the last time I got fucked up was the day I got arrested.
Uh But that's not true but it,

(31:57):
it is overall.
But uh but uh yeah,
they,
they do that looking like I said,
it's closed off society.
There's not women,
they get it where they can get it.
Yo,
I can only imagine.
So let,
let's just say hypothetically,
what was this dude's in goal?
So he would,
hey,
maybe give you some stuff and then maybe the week,
uh,

(32:17):
in a week he'll give you a little bit more.
Hey,
don't worry about it,
man.
And then after he's done that for so long,
he'll say,
hey,
yeah,
man,
where's,
uh,
you gotta pay me back?
What's up and?
Oh,
yeah.
Is that how it goes?
Yeah,
I,
uh,
I,
I can give you,
I had a,
at the same facility,
uh,
a couple of years down the line.
That was just like you said,
I mean,
like,

(32:37):
couldn't have been a fresher fish,
Like young,
no family didn't have a TV,
didn't have any good tennis shoes,
you know,
nothing.
Didn't have any personal property other than basically what the state gave him and stuff that,
you know,
he had come up on and I see him get groomed and plucked and sexually assaulted when I,

(32:57):
I didn't see it.
I,
uh,
but I've seen the aftermath of it.
I,
uh,
he came into the cell one night at time,
locked down time and,
uh,
took a horr bath basically,
you know,
a bird bath in the sink.
And the next morning I woke up and there was like a whole roll of toilet paper in the trash can,
like covered in blood.
And what I thought,
shit,
I'm like,

(33:17):
no,
that's no way that,
that is shit,
man.
And so I'm sitting there staring at my trash can that I had just like literally sanitized the micro floor or the day before or whatever.
Uh,
because you always want to keep yourself tight and right and clean and you know,
because it's the bath where,
where you live.
But,
uh,
so I turned the overhead light on and I looked down and it is a shit and blood and stuff's on the sink and on the toilet and I'm like,

(33:42):
what the fuck is going on?
Well,
fast forward a few hours,
dude,
as soon as the door pops,
dude checks in has to go to medical because he's been sexually assaulted,
uh,
because of the debt that he got into with the guy,
you know,
smoking a little weed,
doing a little meth or whatever he was doing,
getting the commissary barring the TV kind of stuff.

(34:03):
And so,
yeah,
I did have a cellie that sexually assaulted and I,
you know,
I,
of course I didn't know it at the time,
but I basically,
when I turned that overhead light on,
I lost it on.
I was like,
what the fuck are you doing?
What is this literal shit in the fucking trash can?
Why would you not put that in the toilet?
And he's just,
I feel like crap,
Because literally it's like a S D U fucking episode like,

(34:24):
and I did not realize what was going on because I'm talking shit to this kid and that's not even my personality.
It's uh you know,
it was disgusting and me not recognizing the situation for what it was.
You know,
I'm the tearing of this kid and he's basically up there.
Yes,
I'm sorry,
sir.
You know,
like and that's really unnerving when someone,
at least when someone recognizes me as not authority but you know,

(34:46):
when that kind of when when someone calls you,
sir,
like that,
it's kind of like I should have realized something then.
But I mean,
like them and I felt bad because basically he was a fucking rape victim.
I'm sitting here fucking screaming at him for making,
trying to clean himself up for being raped.
But he ended up checking that man right after the and they unlock doors but it happens,

(35:06):
it does happen.
Holy fuck.
So,
so how does the situation go down?
So they approach I,
I'm,
I'm guessing you did not see the situation or whatever.
So they approached the guy and they say,
hey,
bro,
where I need my money now,
he says,
I,
I can't pay you back and they say,
OK,
well,
you know,
either,
you know,
you're gonna let me fuck you or,
or something.
I mean,
that,
I mean,
like I said,
I,
I'm,

(35:27):
I can't give you the dialogue but I would assume it was,
you know what time it is,
you're either gonna get on this dick or you're gonna take,
you know,
the uh there's a saying something like uh you uh I don't know,
I,
I'm horrible with fucking thing.
It's basically something like shit on the dick or blood on the chain.
It was or some,
you know variation there.
They're of implying,

(35:47):
you know,
you're gonna get stuck with the chain or you're gonna get fucked with the dick.
So which one do you want?
You gonna get fucked or you're gonna die?
But I'm,
I'm pretty sure it probably went down that way or it might have been a little bit more persuasive like,
come on,
man,
I've been taking care of you.
You know what time it is,
you know what I wanted.
You ain't fucking soup.
You know what I saying?
People are prison is full of manipulators.
Not all of them are great,

(36:07):
but that,
that greatness can be overridden with a fear of violence and that's what prison is all about violence and manipulation.
So what do you,
what do you think would have happened if that guy would have said no,
fuck you.
I,
you,
you're not,
you're not fucking me,
you know,
we're gonna fight right now.
What,
what do you think would happen?
Do you think he would have killed him?
Uh At,
at that hand,
in that scenario,

(36:28):
it's a possibility because the guy that did,
it was a,
was a wiper.
Uh that was at the lowest level of security that he could be at.
Uh So that was a possibility.
But,
uh I don't know,
man,
I mean,
if the kid had to realize,
I,
I,
I would hope,
I guess that's my rationalization because surely no one's that stupid.

(36:50):
But you know,
S V U has made the entire nation a little bit more aware about,
you know,
sexual assault and sexual crimes and groom me and,
and all that kind of stuff.
But I don't know,
man.
I mean,
I've been in situations where I had to get him a fight or it would have been worse because not to kind of get off on a different tangent.

(37:13):
But in prison,
the more that you try to defend yourself verbally,
the more guilty you because,
and that goes against my nature like I want to talk it out.
Let's hash this out.
This is the logical,
what I'm saying is logical.
This is how it happened however you perceived it is not how it happened.
This is how you try to do that.

(37:34):
Oh It's over with,
you're automatically guilty.
There is no fucking talking about it because prison is being a bad.
So you're either gonna petty up or you're gonna fight or you're gonna get stuck.
And so I was in,
I was in a situation like that,
you know,
it's like it's a do or I've had,
I had two do or die moments.
Uh And I had to,
I,
I said something out the side of my mouth one time sarcastically and that person took it literally ran with it to an affiliation.

(38:01):
Presented it as I was talking about,
about an entire affiliation about how they were.
Nothing but bitches.
Well,
I don't want to call one guy a bitch in prison.
Uh Even though that word has gotten by water bound as is calling somebody cous uh but you know,
it used to be such a social taboo bitch was the immediate fight work.
You know what I mean?

(38:22):
Now everybody's calling each other bitch.
It's like what's up bitch,
No,
I've seen that transition from where bitch was an immediate fight to what's up,
bitch.
You ain't nothing but a bitch ass.
You know,
that's what happened in the 11 years.
I was in prison.
But yeah,
I uh I got approached by the affiliation and they,
they uh said that I was about to have to go take an ass whooping or come up with $100 green or whatever.

(38:44):
And I'm like for what?
And they're like,
well,
yada,
yada,
yada said that you throwing your bitches off like that doesn't even make any sense.
Why would I say that?
Knowing that there's even one of y'all,
So he goes,
well,
so are you saying dude's lying?
You're saying my brother's lying.
And I was like,
yes,
absolutely.
I'm saying he's,
so you're gonna say that to his face?
I go,
absolutely.
I'm gonna say it to his face.
He goes,
well,
you're gonna have to get the one with which meant,

(39:06):
you know,
uh a one on one,
not like the entire group of people jump on you,
you,
you,
you have an opportunity to get the one,
the one on one.
Uh And I was like,
man,
I don't want to fucking do that.
And I said,
so you're lying because if you're lying,
oh You know what I'm saying?
So I was like,
that's when I,
that's when,
you know,
after the fact that someone in that opinion came to me and was like,

(39:27):
broke it down in my ignorance.
More,
you defend yourself,
the more guilty you would,
the will if you're willing to fight about it or get,
you know,
handle it physically.
That shows that,
you know,
that's your defense,
your little offense is your defense.
So the fact that I was willing,
I was like,
yeah,
I was like,
let's go do it.
We were gonna fall off into a guild or what they call their units there.

(39:49):
Uh And and you know,
go to a cell and fight the fact that I agreed to,
it was a nut for them when they realized I was,
I was like,
yeah,
I was like,
I don't wanna do it.
But absolutely,
I'm this dude's fucking lying.
But uh but that let me off the hook on that because they saw the willingness I was to fight and that's fucked up.
Like there ain't nothing to talk about in prison when it comes to defending yourself.

(40:11):
Because the only way to defend your honor or defend the truth is to literally fight.
That's what it boils down to damn.
So it sounds like you handled it the right way.
So if you're in that situation,
you're in prison,
the right way is to say,
no,
fuck him.
Where is he at right now?
We're gonna fight because absolutely,
you call him out on it and,
and,
and,
and people use that same thing as a book,

(40:32):
Because that's the go to,
to,
to prove your innocence or tell your side of the story or whatever you have to get them up.
So there are some people that are great at fighting real bad at handling their business,
that resort to that using that technique.
You know,
everything is exploited.
Did,
did you ever have to fight in there?
Oh Yeah,
I uh I had three maybe four actual body write ups.

(40:56):
Uh But you know,
average probably about an altercation a year.
Uh,
because it,
it's,
it's hard too,
especially when you have a personality like me where,
uh,
I stay in my lane,
try to stay in my lane.
Try not to associate with as very few people as possible.
Uh,
but that came off as better than everybody else that came off as a snobbish that came in as arrogant and that came off as suspect.

(41:25):
What I mean by suspect is you can tend to be by yourself or tend to not get high that's suspicious in itself because why would you not want to be getting fucked up while you're in prison?
Because you're in prison?
I just,
I just didn't get down like that.
So that kind of made me suspect in some ways.
Uh But,
you know,
so I was always butting heads and most of the time I would say it was my fault because I did not recognize the situation for what it was.

(41:49):
But,
you know,
I never got beat me or anything.
I'm not a great fighter at all.
I don't like it.
I don't like confrontation to be this.
But uh you know,
I help my own so not the greatest but you know,
maybe uh maybe about a 5.1 out of a 10.
Hey,
man,
I'm just glad you're still sitting here,

(42:11):
you know,
you're alive.
You made it out,
dude.
So,
uh so in your opinion,
what,
what is the right approach?
Or like the right demeanor to have whenever you're entering prison,
like,
should you try to be you?
So you said don't try to be a tough guy,
but it sounds like you tried to stay in your lane and you got in trouble too.
Yeah,
you just,
you just have to be yourself.
Uh,

(42:32):
and just kind of the best thing to do when entering prison,
especially the first time,
not knowing the territory,
not knowing what to expect.
Best advice is simple advice.
Don't get into debt,
which means don't gamble,
don't do drugs,
don't borrow comma or canteen.

(42:53):
That,
that debt is the biggest motivator of drama and violence there is because everybody wants to eat,
everybody wants to get fucked up.
You can't pay for it.
It ain't like on the street they'll,
they'll give you credit.
They will literally let you get yourself into a hole you can't get out of so they can own.
And,

(43:13):
and that might end up being just monetarily,
they might start extorting you through your family.
You know,
they'll be making phone calls to your family from the burner phone saying,
hey,
got your,
got your brother,
got your son in the cell with me right now.
You know,
he owes me a lot of money.
If y'all won't come off,
start making payment plans that,
you know,
$75 worth of dope.

(43:33):
You got the first week you were in is now the wound to over $1000.
It literally happened.
That is not an exaggeration.
That is literally how it happens.
By the time you get through,
if you get through with that whole scenario,
$75 will turn into $1000 because of the trouble that they had to go through to get it,

(43:54):
you know,
picking up the phone and scaring your fan.
That's crazy.
So,
so what do you do?
So a guy goes up to you.
It's like,
hey,
bro,
here here's a bag of chips,
man.
Take it and you're like,
no,
I'm good because it's like,
no,
no,
no,
no.
Take it,
take it,
no,
it's yours and he opens,
it's like here take it,
man,
take the chips.
What you supposed to do?
Throw it at them.
No,
you just respectfully decline.
They're not the fucking God.

(44:17):
You know,
it,
it's I have a hard time accepting stuff from anybody,
including my friends.
So uh it,
it was already natural for me to decline stuff but go without wait till you got money on your books.
It's not that important that you have gray sweatpants.

(44:37):
So you look like you've been there more than three days.
You know,
prison is a lot about like in a was talking about this is the world or whatever or the land of the have and have nots,
you know,
people want to have stuff there,
they want to have the exclusive stuff.
Like if you bring in a different style of 10 shoes,
you know,
a pair of tennis shoes you pay for $80 on the street,

(45:00):
you make it through processing with them.
Those might be worth up to $1000 by the time you,
you make it to the orientation pot or whatever.
But,
uh,
so it is about to have it because it's hard to get stuff.
Uh,
well,
it's not hard to get drugs contraband.
It's hard to get the little things like a different,
like a name brand t-shirt with a logo on,

(45:21):
you know,
something like that worth $200.
Like a Nike t-shirt with a swoop on it with a graphic is contraband.
So if you could somehow made it through the system with it,
you got you a $200 t-shirt.
Holy shit.
What,
uh,
what's the craziest thing you've seen in prison?
Craziest thing I've seen.
Yep.
Uh,
I,
I've seen some wild stuff.

(45:41):
I think the craziest thing I've seen was after an offender was killed or was being attacked the officer which stays in a locked cage and serve the,
uh,
well,
the cage could be spended metal frame room with the phone desk or whatever sits in the middle of the pod.

(46:03):
Went,
uh,
flying out of the,
uh,
cage screaming.
They killed my baby through her radio and then unlocked the crash gate with her keys and took off running.
That was probably the craziest thing I've seen because of everything that it implies,
uh what,
what does it imply?
They killed her child?
No,

(46:23):
they,
they killed her boot,
they killed her,
her boy,
her man.
Oh,
shit.
Does that happen?
Oh,
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Way more than they want.
Way,
way more than,
way more.
You gotta realize they are fucking the corrections officers,
the females.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.

(46:43):
You know,
it's,
it's,
it's not few and far between because you gotta realize these women,
I love to talk about this,
the women in the prison,
it takes a certain type of woman to be in prison for work in a prison because you got to know what you're going into.
Now,
there are some that wear the to like that.
If you're a correction officer,
they have you,
you know,

(47:03):
hair in a bun can't be down blowing past your neck.
Uh,
you know,
a lot of them wear the short sleeve shirts or,
you know,
the uniform shirts,
but they'll wear like an under shirt that goes to their wrist and I was talking earlier about,
you know,
not seeing very much.
You,
you might see a woman's neck facing her,
her hands in prison and then you get out all this crap.

(47:24):
But,
uh,
so you got all kind of different type of women.
You got those that are correction officers,
they can't really do anything with their uniforms unless you're one of the really inventive ones that take your shit to a tailor,
have it seed up to accentuate every part of your body because that's happened.
Uh,
but then you have teachers that wear smas over their clothing.
Then you have teachers that just wear a loose foot or loose bitt clothing.

(47:46):
Then you have the teachers that,
uh,
dress like they're on the street,
not in a prison.
You have the nurses that wear loose scrub pots and loose scrub pants and a doctor's jacket or a lab coat.
And then you got the ones that go to the spray tan booth and,
and put some different power paint on and for their uniforms on when they come to work.
That there's literally a whole range of,

(48:06):
of clothing pos,
but uh,
there a lot of women can come to a prison and get whatever attention it is that they want like where you were talking about earlier,
like the women,
you know,
you can look at them,
they don't even care anymore.
It's like,
you know,
because they want that five seconds of attention or whatever.
Uh,
you can take the most bland,

(48:27):
unattractive woman,
put her in a prison setting and she will walk out them motherfucking doors every night feeling like a dime piece because everybody is trying to get at her because she's a female.
You know,
whether it's just through for a conversation,
uh,
if it's trying to,
you know,
get something going,
trying to get a move going or trying to get you know,

(48:47):
whatever variation there is,
but women walk out of them fucking doors every night,
exponentially increased in their,
in their uh self-image,
you know,
holy shit.
So if you're an inmate,
let's say uh I'm an inmate or whatever,
how do I get at?
How do I eventually get to fuck a corrections officer?

(49:07):
What,
how do I do that?
OK.
Uh In my experience,
uh I have only known one female officer that was actively fucking more than one person,
like because it's all based,
it's just like in the real world,
you develop a relationship and it,
you know,
sounds,
you know,
goes from casual to romantic,

(49:28):
to intimate to physically,
but there was a female officer at my previous facility prior to my release that had a train run on her in the kitchen.
She was the pitching uh officer that oversaw the operation kitchen or whatever,
security wise and uh someone and I knew him,

(49:50):
I mean,
I,
I did,
you know,
I obviously I wasn't a participant or whatever but like,
because she normally worked the annex but she worked that kitchen that day or whatever,
but she was suspect beginning with by staff because of the way she's acting or whatever.
But uh a security personnel came in there to get what they call an out count sheet,
which is the p of the inmates that are gonna be there for count time and noticed her doubled over,

(50:11):
pushing her gut or something.
Her stomach and basically one thing led to another and they rolled the camera back and they witnessed like seven different guys going in there at her table and they literally laid so much hype in her that it busted her inside it or bruised her up or whatever.
But so you,
you do have straight ho trains like that.
But then most of the interaction is uh you know,

(50:34):
like a regular development of a relationship that progresses the physical intimacy or whatever.
But uh those are not as hard to find as you think,
but they're very selective.
They like what they like like any but it,
it,
it does happen,
it happens everywhere,
it happens in every facility.
Uh Now I've heard rumors of the C C A facilities out uh in West Tennessee that uh have women employed there by affiliations just for the purpose of,

(51:02):
of that.
Doing their thing.
That's,
that's,
that's a,
that's a side hustle form.
They're,
they're doing the damn thing.
Damn.
Could,
could you imagine what it's like?
Right?
I mean,
you were locked up for like 11 years,
man,
you've been locked up for like 567 years,
right?
You haven't seen a fucking pussy in seven years and damn man,

(51:23):
you are just thirsting.
And next thing you know,
you come around the corner and you see this woman,
she's getting the train ran on her and she says you come on you're next.
Yo.
That would be the best sex of my damn life.
Yo,
I couldn't even imagine.
I'm,
I'm surprised more of her wasn't busted up because I'll tell you what,
first of all,
it would be very fast.

(51:44):
Right.
I'll bust a nut in two seconds.
But then like,
man,
just the brutal,
ruthlessness I would fuck this corrections officer.
That's gotta feel incredible.
Right.
I,
I,
you know,
I've got a little bit of higher standards.
I ain't about to run into nothing.
Anybody's been in before me,
at least within the last 24 hours.
It about a year.
I'm,
I'm trying to look,

(52:04):
I'm trying to look for something that ain't fresh,
freshly,
you know,
playoff.
But yeah,
I understand what you're saying.
I mean,
like most guys,
absolutely.
You know,
nine out of 10 dudes would jump on the opportunity.
Apparently everybody that work itching that morning jumped on the opportunity.
Yo,
I feel like I would just have a whole new perspective on life that day,
man.
I got,
I bust up that corrections officer.

(52:26):
Yo,
I,
I would have a smile on my face.
You couldn't,
you could never uh put me down that day.
How often does sex happen in prison between inmates?
Uh More than I would like to know.
Um You see it?
Oh no,
no,
no,
no,
not,
not wits.
But I mean,
you,
there are there,

(52:46):
there,
there's homosexuals or I ain't trying to get into,
I'm at least 12 years behind on all this gender equality or identity stuff.
No disrespect to whatever it is you may or may not believe in.
But when I say homosexuals,
I mean,
people fucking people that are not the same biological sex,
they were born.
That's what I mean by homosexual.

(53:07):
So whether it be a men's prison or women's prison,
there's a couple,
there are literal couples in prison.
I've seen it where they sell together and what they call married and all that kind of crap.
Uh And that's,
that's the far end of it.
The,
the other end of it is the guys that are getting their dick stuck or fucking these pumps and not wanting anybody else to know about it.

(53:28):
And that's fine.
And Danny because,
you know,
that's their fucking decision unless they're affiliated.
And that is a really,
really,
really big.
No,
no,
I have seen the aftermath of some,
like if you're affiliated and you have to go to a pump cell,
supposed to go exported,
you know,
you're supposed to have one or two of your brothers go with you that way.

(53:49):
There is no possible misunderstanding or conjecture about what was going on because you have a witness,
you know,
it's kind of like some in,
in some places if you're affiliated or whatever,
you have to have interaction with the police or the administration,
you have to take,
you know,
a witness with you so that nobody can say you were snitching or whatever kind of thing.
Uh But I've seen out in prison you always know something's gonna happen because it's quiet.

(54:16):
Prison is never quiet.
Prison is never fucking quiet.
I don't care that it is three o'clock in the morning and everybody's locked down or most of the people were down to school and work.
Prison is never quiet.
There's always noise.
Domino's slapping toilet flushing,
murmuring cards,
slap,
you know,
all that kind of stuff.
So when I walk into the pod,
uh they have what they call shower security,

(54:38):
uh which is where the person would be escorted to the shower,
like physically,
like,
you know,
kind of like a protection detail that walks with them.
One on each side,
they'll have somebody at the base of the staircase,
they'll have somebody at the top of the staircase.
And if their door is like more than a few away from the staircase,
they'll have someone in the middle and then they will have somebody standing there at the cell door to open the cell door and then the door can be shut behind them.

(55:01):
So you basically have a protection detail if you're affiliated,
going to and from the shower because that's when you're most susceptible to violence because wearing flip flops or shower shoes or whatever.
So,
uh I walked in and thought that there was some type of shower,
superior scenario going on.
So I'm listening as I walk in the pod because everything's kind of dead or whatever people aren't really moving around.

(55:25):
I see people posted up kind of like shower security detail.
And so I'm listening for the shower because showers,
well,
at that prison were very loud because you could hear getting curtains.
A lot of water pressure.
I didn't hear anything and I kicked around the corner,
didn't,
all the doors were cracked open in the shower.
So I tell nobody was in them and I said everything straight and they're like,
yeah,
you're good.
Go ahead and go back to yourself,
go with,

(55:45):
you know,
whatever.
And so I'm as I'm walking in,
I'm walking up the opposite steps because I see the guys posted up on the rail.
I thought they were getting ready to be shower ski.
Well,
as I get to the top of my step and turn it towards my cell,
I hear a door pop open and then when that door popped open,
I'm talking about,
it was like something out of a fucking Shriner circus part like there was already eight guys in the pod standing around doing security type mannerism behaviors.

(56:11):
I'm talking about doors opened up and 30 motherfuckers come out of nowhere and snatched this motherfucker as he was saying by to the faggot after doing whatever he was doing,
they literally beat this motherfucker and,
and threw him down the stairs because he was in there getting his dick suck or fucking or getting fucked or,
you know?
Oh,
that's another thing I got.
So,

(56:31):
homosexuality is not that big of a deal in prison,
you know,
it's just as thought he's accepted or whatever.
Uh,
but you would be surprised,
you know,
I really don't see the difference but I've literally heard the phrase from the guy getting beaten,
thrown down the stairs.
I was just getting my dick up,
just getting my dick up.
I was just getting my dick up to.

(56:53):
That's,
that's all I was doing.
I was just getting my dick that I literally the last thing he probably said with the full teeth amount.
Uh but our full amount of uh but there are guys that are the men of the b the early of the,
the man's man,
the fucking,
you know,
got a bad ass wife.
Got two different chicks that comes and sees them every other weekend that works out on the pile.

(57:18):
That is a motherfucking loves to take the fucking dick,
loves to take it.
There's something about it,
I mean,
loves to fucking take it.
I was like,
because,
you know,
I observed,
I,
like I said in prison,
there are no secrets because you're just,
it don't matter if you're in a gymnasium size area or you're in a pot area that's,
you know,
the size of a firework stand.

(57:38):
It's like there is,
you observe everything there's nothing that goes unnoticed.
Can't get away with anything,
at least being observed.
Uh But uh so we're sitting around and playing some game at the table when I noticed this person goes to this person's cell and I'm like,
damn,
I was like,
it was gonna get his dick suck.
I'm just making a white hearted joke.
You know,
it ain't,
technically we shouldn't even be talking about it because it ain't all business.

(58:01):
But men are bigger fucking gossip when at least in prison I'm talking about dude,
prison is nothing but a fucking,
I can only imagine the women's prison like uh not to be stereotypical but men taught nothing but fucking cash shit and gossiping.
This is what is he doing and all that kind of shit.
But I,
so I,
I was guilty of it just like anybody else like,

(58:22):
oh da da da da is gonna get his dick suck.
And they were like,
no,
you don't know him.
I'm like,
know what they're like.
No,
he's in there fucking getting fucked.
And I was like what?
And they were like,
yeah,
yeah,
he don't,
he,
he ain't getting his dick suck.
He suck.
He's in there getting fucking dick down.
I'm like,
you're so fucking cool.
I mean,
like you could have told me anything else on that and I have been like,
all right,

(58:42):
but I'm but yeah,
I mean,
so everybody's got their phone,
man.
Damn.
So pe people don't even bat an eye.
So would they,
would they think that,
let's say this big burly buff guy is getting fucked where people think,
oh,
he's a bitch.
He's not really that tough.
Oh,
no,
no,
no,
no.
Because people ain't that fuck,

(59:03):
people ain't that fucking dumb.
I mean,
like if,
if you've got fucking uh fucking,
I don't know,
I'm fucking out of time uh with my references.
But like if you got Cyrus,
the virus just because he's skinny,
you know what the fuck his rep is,
you know what the fuck he's done.
You ain't gonna fuck with it.
But like just because he likes taking his ass don't mean that he won't beat your ass because they had,

(59:27):
they had to like,
like look punks gotta know how to fight Chris because everybody's trying to fuck,
everybody's trying to get their dips up.
So they're,
they're always being,
you know,
they're,
they're,
they're a bigger target than,
than a fresh fish or a young 18 year old white kid that's never been to prison.
They are bigger target than that because they're known to go,
they're,
they're homosexual.
So they,
they,
people assume that,
you know,

(59:47):
they,
they want to suck whoever's dick,
they wanna get fucked by whoever kind of thing.
So they,
I see some,
some look like Ethiopia and I'm not talking about,
you know,
skinny black kid.
This,
this is the white white guy that was looked like a anorexic long distance runner through two freaking guys that were trying to bump down on them to,

(01:00:08):
to fuck them or get your dick sucked or whatever.
So,
I mean,
like you,
you can't ever underestimate anybody because even if you think,
you know what they're there for,
you don't know what they're willing to do just,
you know,
because everything is potentially uh a life threatening or,
or to the point of life or death when it comes to altercations in prison,

(01:00:29):
you have to realize going into it that it could be a life or death situation because any one of those fights that I had gotten in or the altercations or whatever could have easily gone that direction real quick.
Because what if I got the upper hand and they didn't like it or what if I got the,
you know,
the upper hand and uh,
and I did something to it because you never know what your opponent's gonna do because you're in prison.

(01:00:52):
Just the,
the guards ain't trying to break up a fight.
They like to see much.
Now the camera's kind of push them to enter,
you know,
engage and try to,
to break up fights.
The guards ain't trying to break up fights.
They wanna go home,
they don't want to smell like pepper spray,
they don't want to cough,
they don't wanna fucking have the shit on them.
You know,
they got families to get back to.

(01:01:12):
And it's fights are entertainment.
Any kind of drama is entertaining because there is no new stimu the television or,
you know,
drama that is created by the inmates.
So everybody likes to see a fight but you have to be careful because you,
it,
it could,
I've seen a guy,
I got into a fist fight with,
uh,
two years later,
someone knocked his dentures out.

(01:01:34):
This man was three months or two months from going home.
They've been locked up like 40 years.
And because he had that prison mentality of can't let nothing go because someone will perceive me as a bitch now because I got my teeth knocked out.
Uh It didn't help that the guy,
he was fighting that he had fought and knocked his dentures out was running around clacking them together like the uh old wind up dentist teeth talking about,

(01:02:00):
I got his teeth yet.
That probably didn't help this guy.
But the guy that I'm talking about,
let's say,
let's call him.
Uh I got his teeth knocked out and Joe was running around making fun of look whose teeth I got and you know,
clacking around saying,
hey,
talk to Tom,
talk to Tom.
Tom will talk back to you.
That kind of shit.
Well,
dude didn't know how to process that.
Helpful it because he had been locked up for years.

(01:02:23):
He was two months from going home.
He went and got a knife,
Tom went and got a knife and attacked Joe.
Joe not only beat the shit out of Tom,
took the shank or the knife from him and killed him on the basketball court.
And uh two months before this guy was to go home,
he initiated a fight with a weapon because he was so disrespected,

(01:02:47):
so mistreated and so embarrassed or whatever that he had to go handle his business because he could not look like fucking bitch in front of people.
He died in prison.
So he didn't look like a bitch.
You know what happened to Joe,
what he's gonna do five years on max,
no street charges.
And he,
he,
he'll get,
he'll get a write up for assault,
assault or death by weapon because they tend to like to keep stuff in the house in prison because any publicity,

(01:03:13):
that literal publicity that comes in to the news is back with unless it's like something awesome happens.
Uh But they don't want what happens in prison walls getting outside the prison wall.
So when an officer is called fucking an inmate,
even though it's raped by an authority figure,
just lose their job.
Now,
if you combine sex with dope,

(01:03:36):
all your ass is going to jail,
they're gonna,
they're gonna take you to the local jail.
If you get caught,
they're gonna perk walk you or do the walk of shame where uh they might not even mention the sex,
but they're gonna mention the fact that you were bringing dope it because that's good publicity.
We called another,
we called another dirty cop.
We called another dirty kitchen worker.
Sorry.
No,
no,
you're good.
So that is that,

(01:03:58):
I think that's the craziest story I've heard in a month.
So this guy,
I mean,
but I if you were to kind of take his side,
what were his options just to let this guy continue to,
you know,
make fun of him for weeks or?
Oh man,
it's,
it's if,
if you have that much ego and,
and a lot of people,
ok?
Like I,
I talked about earlier,
bitch is a trigger word was for a long time and you can call me even from day one,

(01:04:23):
man.
I,
I roll different than a lot of people.
I don't care,
I don't really don't care what you think.
I don't care if you think I'm a patsy.
I don't care if you think I'm a suspect.
I don't care if you think I'm a fucking arrogant piece of shit.
You know,
I know what I know.
I feel what I feel but I'm trying to do me.
I'm not worried about impressing any of y'all because none of y'all on my level and I'm not on y'all's level that's not a tear down or a pull up.

(01:04:46):
I'm just,
we're on different,
different levels of shit.
But uh so I roll different.
So I would have sucked it up.
I would have been embarrassed.
I've had to walk around with a black eye.
You don't,
I don't win every fight I'm in.
So,
you know,
a black eye ain't nothing to be ashamed of.
It just signifies that you fucking either handled your business or you got handled.
Uh But there was probably for him in his situation,

(01:05:10):
there was probably nothing he,
he did what he had to do what he felt he had to do.
Uh I guess he probably was once he got that knife,
he,
you know,
Tom felt like,
you know,
he was gonna go handle his business and if he had to stick this motherfucker and get a few more years out of it,
he was cool with that because he was not gonna get treated like a bitch you get made fun of and because that's how he probably proceeded,

(01:05:30):
you know,
when it's had an insult to injury,
you know,
if he would have got his teeth back,
it probably would have been done deal because,
you know,
I don't know about you but a lot of prior or,
or prison or whatever,
some of the guys that I had altercations with ended up being some of my best friends because once you get that done testosterone shit out of the way and y'all,
y'all got,
Well,

(01:05:51):
it's kind of like that in prison sometimes but a lot of different factors interfere with that bonding,
kind of,
you know,
different affiliations or whatever,
whatever.
But it's,
it's,
it's hard,
man.
I,
I only had,
I was in prison six years before I really felt like I had anybody that I would consider a friend.
And,
uh,
so it's hard because everybody as an angle,

(01:06:13):
I mean,
they do in life but in there everybody is trying to get something from somebody.
It's just like breathing,
Like a fish,
breathing water.
It just,
it's a natural instinct to try to get something out of somebody.
So I kept everybody out of arms distance.
So,
I mean,
I was locked up probably eight years before I considered,
I,
I had myself a broom.
Holy shit.
Do you,
do you think that prison works?

(01:06:34):
So we,
we send quote unquote,
you know,
criminals to prison so that they won't be criminals anymore.
Do you think it works?
Uh worked for me?
Uh But I wanted it to work.
Uh I don't think that the current system and look,
there ain't no easy fix.
I'll be the first to say it because I'm not,

(01:06:55):
I'm not educated.
I di I didn't spend my time wisely in regards to furthering my education or,
or getting bookmarks or getting degrees or anything like that even though I had time to do it.
But uh I'm like that.
But um you first off like prison is a warehousing.
Uh You're there.
It's it's not corrections,

(01:07:16):
it's warehouse.
Uh,
now in the last 20 or 30 years started bringing programs in,
like general education and vocational classes.
Oh,
that was good in the eighties and nineties.
But it's 2023.
Uh,
the prison I,
I was released from,
actually had a coding class.
Uh,
I didn't participate in it because it was on the main compound and I was at the,
but,
uh,
you know,

(01:07:36):
programs,
education,
things that can make you money.
This is something that I really want to talk about.
Things that can set you up to reduce the risk of recidivism for yourself.
Because look,
I had a whole lot of,
a lot of money to some people.
I had some money when I got out of prison.
Had I not had,

(01:07:57):
I'd much rather have my mom but had I not had the money from my mom or the money from this other place that magically I had,
uh,
I'd be fucked up right now because,
uh,
I,
I work for a prison program called and,
uh,
basically they do industrial things at different prisons.
Like one prison makes clothing for the prisons and 11 at another prison,

(01:08:22):
they make the mats and bed sheets and stuff like that in another place.
They do this at another,
uh,
the last place I was at,
at a 22 100 acre commercial farm.
And,
uh,
that program is phenomenal.
It.
Uh,
most prison pay tops out at 50 cents an hour.
Uh,
there's usually three tiers.
The tiers are like 17,
24 34 34 42 50 that kind of thing.

(01:08:44):
So,
uh,
the back the most you're gonna make in prison is 50 cents an hour,
whether you're cooking or weed,
eating on the side of the road,
we eating or mowing the grass and inside the facility is a program where they give you behavioral,
uh,
betterment classes,
stuff like thinking for a change,
uh stuff like that.

(01:09:04):
But they pay you either production,
like you'll get a base pay of a dollar an hour.
Plus you get a piece of the profit making these clubs.
Uh like during COVID,
we made masks for all the facilities in Tennessee and any local agency that wanted mask for their jail.
So,
like we,
we shifted gears from,
it was kind of like the war effort back in the World War Two where they shut down the uh the,

(01:09:28):
the car line and started assembling,
you know,
airplanes or whatever came in and said this is all we're gonna do until they tell us to stop.
They want a million masks kind of thing.
So we started maybe,
maybe like 1000 masks the first week between 50 guys on these,
you know,
these are full commercial production,
sewing machines and different type of sewing uh equipment or whatever.

(01:09:49):
So we went from like 1000 masks the first week to once we were rocking and rolling.
We were doing 12,000 masks uh a week.
But,
you know,
we got a percentage of that like and so they split that.
So that program started to sidetrack.
That program is about the best thing they got going on in Tennessee prison because they have a forced savings program where you can contribute uh 15,

(01:10:11):
25 or 35% of your pay that goes into a savings account that cannot be touched for until you're released or your debt.
That's the only two ways you can touch that money.
Uh So they forced you to save some of your money.
I think it's great.
I think they should have paid the percentages a little higher.
Uh But you know,
about a year and a half of work,
I saved up like 800 bucks.

(01:10:32):
Now.
Just imagine if I didn't have any money and no support system,
no support structure,
no living family,
no nothing.
And the only thing I would have walked out of prison was with was $800 and parole.
I'd be seriously stressed the fuck out because the reentry services that the fres provide are like cookie cutter or,

(01:10:54):
I don't know or looks good on paper but not in,
not in actuality or something.
I don't know.
They do,
they do what they can,
I get it.
There's,
but they,
they have something has to be better because had it not been,
I don't know if I can say that because I still might be,
I'm on parole.
So I don't know if I say that.
Uh,

(01:11:14):
it,
please.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Had it not been for the assistance of someone whose responsibility?
It was not,
I would not be talking to you at this point.
It might be a month or two down the line because there were people that tried to help me when it came to getting halfway house information and getting stuff lined up,

(01:11:35):
they tried to help.
That's all they could do was try.
There was they did what they could,
the next person did and it shouldn't be like that.
Uh You know,
the process wasn't,
I never was eligible for parole.
So the entire time I was in prison,
I never learned a single thing about good time credits.
I never learned anything about halfway houses or what to expect when you're released or because I knew when I was getting out of it,

(01:12:01):
I knew I was getting out Sunday,
September 6th 2026.
I think it's Sunday.
I knew what I was getting out because I had 100%.
So I knew I was getting out September 6th 2026.
And so I was gonna start planning better in about a year from now,
start getting stuff lined up.
Uh Even after my mom passed,
you know,
I,
I had to come up,
fall back along.
But uh the Reentry Services man,

(01:12:23):
something's gotta be done.
But to go back to your original question,
your prisons work,
they're working.
But because they're realizing that you can't just throw a motherfucker in prison and expect anything better out of them after releasing them.
If you don't do something with us while we're in there,
because all you're gonna do is stagnate and most people don't do what I did where you learn your lesson prior to getting there and you wanted to better yourself.

(01:12:53):
Had you had to put down the old ways that can't put down the old ways.
Most people can't because it's a shitty ass place.
I would have loved to have gotten hot and ignored all the fact that I did everything that got me there that would have been real fucking good.
It would have been real good not to have to thank the shame that I felt for,
you know,
cooking dope in my backyard where my wife and kids were in the front house or the fact that uh you know,

(01:13:17):
I chose drugs over my family or the fact that,
you know,
I,
I,
I,
I threw everything away from an addiction.
Uh I'm kind of sensitive,
kind of butt sore or,
or uh I don't know what a better term would be about addiction or whatever about when I,
you know,
I don't like to use the excuse.
Oh it was addiction or like I said about that whole self medicating thing.

(01:13:39):
Don't want to,
to tone down I want to accept my accountability for the drug.
Like I knew I tried,
I tried,
I did try to stop,
you know,
I used the excuse that my wife separated and took,
I mean,
like,
look,
look man,
when my wife found out that not only was I doing drugs but manufacturing them in the backyard,

(01:14:01):
he did what anybody in the else in their logical mind should have done at the time that I'm talking to her on the fucking jail phone.
She's lining up three men in a truck or two men in a truck.
She literally packed up the fucking kids,
packed the house,
got out of it.
I think she bonded me out maybe because I remember getting out.

(01:14:22):
So I mean it was either her or my mom or somebody but she literally took the kids and ran.
Thank God I had a fucking his uh uh I had a,
I had a great wife,
you know,
a strong mother to our kids.
So thankfully she was the level headed but she,
she took the first thing smoking when she found out how bad it was.
And,
and that was a very smart move on our part.

(01:14:42):
I had no ill will or nothing.
I got nothing but love for why,
why,
why not?
Listen,
I would be so pissed.
I'd be like,
listen,
I married you.
Yeah,
I lied to you about some shit but I'm here.
I'm at my most sensitive time.
I need help and you're gonna run off.
You didn't,
you didn't have like maybe a thought that she would stick with you for these 10 years.
No,
no.
Well,
it's 15 but no,

(01:15:03):
no,
this was prior to me getting arrested for uh this was when,
when she packed up and took off the kids that started our separation.
That was when she found out that I was doing and selling and making drugs.
Uh I used that catalyst as the excuse for my spiral down the hole.
All the kids are gone.
She's taking the kids.
I know I'm gonna get a divorce.
You know,
I did a whole pity me woes me.

(01:15:24):
I can't get nothing right.
I might as well just keep getting high,
you know,
because you know,
dope is a great escapism if you're trying to escape into more fucking shit.
I mean that,
you know,
they don't tell you that that ain't,
that ain't on the side of the fucking the buddy or the glass pipe that you're smoking your dope off of,
you know,
don't come with a little F B A warning saying this just makes it worse,

(01:15:45):
I promise,
you know.
But uh but that's what I did.
I used that age old.
Uh I got problems so I'm just gonna keep getting so that's why,
you know,
I've taken all those bad,
horrible things that I'm ashamed of in the past.
Uh And I use that as my foundation and my spurring to,
to,

(01:16:05):
to do right to be right.
That's where the core of my ho I'm back to the core of my honesty and,
you know,
like I always said,
I hate confrontation.
I don't know why I'm always having to deal with confrontation.
That was a fucking lie because I didn't live a conflict free lifestyle.
I was being trike one.
I'm running around doing this with this person,
this person having to lie about that person and doing this and doing this and hustling this and,

(01:16:28):
and,
and wondering why I'm in freaking confrontation all the time.
Why is this person fucking acting tripping off?
Why is this person busting me out to my wife?
Why?
It's like we're all full of hater man.
But uh uh but now it's,
it's great because now I'm,
I don't have any of those distractions like I have no qualms about saying that I'm going to this festival tomorrow with this person.

(01:16:50):
I'm gonna spend some time with them and then I'm gonna come hang out with you.
I don't have to hide you that shit man.
Between me,
you and whoever's listening.
I've been out of prison in two weeks and two days.
You know how much pussy I've had,
how much,
the only thing I have been focused on driver's license,
a title insurance.

(01:17:12):
Uh I'm trying to do CD L school.
So I'm going through probably,
I,
I don't think the FBI does a big background check is,
is this truck driving company?
I'm trying to work for,
I'm waiting to hear back.
But if that doesn't pan out,
then I'm gonna shift yours into temporary work until I can get into school with the next semester.
So I can go to a truck driving school.
But I ain't focused on pussy,
man.
I know it's fucking crazy.

(01:17:33):
I was a £6 I was a straight fucking or I was a dope man.
I made my own drugs.
So therefore I had shit on call.
I went from all of that to 4000,
251 days in prison.
Now,
mind you,
I want it,
I want it bad.
It's a back of in any of the back of my head all the time.
It's like I take a of water.
I want some pussy,
But it ain't my or most guys.

(01:17:57):
I had 72 hours to show up at my apple house.
I had a fat ass motherfucking key side of their key suite at a at,
at a hotel.
I spent the night with my brother the first night handled the business.
He actually,
he drove me around for like three days.
He's lost that.
But uh you know,
I should have got a fucking whore.
That's what everybody was telling me.
I'm talking to people that I thought that that have been released from prison.

(01:18:18):
I'm chatting on the phone.
They're like,
dude,
you got somebody coming over,
I'm like,
man,
I just want to be fucking alone,
man.
When you've been around motherfuckers,
you don't want to be around for 11 years.
To me,
the biggest thing is to be with your fucking self.
Now,
now all that might change because I've handled the business.
I'm tagged,
led an insurance and ready to work.
So I might shift yours,
man.
But yeah,

(01:18:38):
it's,
I,
I'm still a fucking so,
but I mean,
it's,
I mean,
it ain't nothing to be ashamed of or nothing to not be proud of.
But it's,
it is kind of shocking with who I used to be and,
you know,
most guys get out of prison and get a stake and get some pussy.
I got some steak and I wasn't worried about it.
It's so it's something to be proud of.
It's,
it's not something to be ashamed of.
I just think I'm saying like I,

(01:18:59):
I couldn't,
I don't understand how you have so much damn self-control because honestly,
I probably would have came out,
I probably would have tried to pick up a prostitute.
She would have been a cop and I'd be in jail right now if I were you.
So it's a,
it's a admirable thing.
33 days out or maybe it was,
maybe it was a week out.
I was uh getting my tags and I had been dropped off,

(01:19:22):
I had figured Uber out,
I was in an area that I knew pretty well and,
uh,
I was like,
fuck it.
I'm gonna put it and go down here to this local barbecue restaurant that I wanna try out anyway because I haven't had it in,
you know,
12 years or whatever.
As I'm walking down past the Burger King can come to a major intersection near the interstate and,
you know,
there's,
there's girls,
there's,
there is women of the night and it is broad daylight,

(01:19:43):
And it is,
I see the pattern.
You know,
I recognize every scenario that is happening.
This chick that's sent in from the Burger King in the sundress with the half of with the big tits and,
and,
and the dark skin and the brunette,
curly hair that was like made for me with a rolling suitcase and the phone in her hand.
I'm like,
I'm like,
that's the one because she is ready to fucking go man.

(01:20:06):
And I'm sitting here thinking fuck going on and get some barbecue.
Let me download this fucking Uber app and go holler at this bitch.
You know,
that's literally what I was.
I was like,
oh God,
why are you fucking tipping me?
You know I've got like three grand.
He cashed on me.
You know,
I got a cell phone that,
that is more advanced than the fucking the shuttle and I still ain't downloaded Uber or whatever.
And so I panic,

(01:20:27):
I'm sitting here looking at this chick and I'm like,
man,
and that ain't just one.
There's another one right over there at the Exxon.
There's another one right over there,
you know,
and it's like I,
I gotta get the fuck out of this neighborhood where I fucking get some venereal disease and locked up because she's a cop,
you know,
that's,
that's my,
look,
I'm,
look,
I'm out on executive clemency.
The governor put his stamp on me to let me out of prison and I get arrested a week out.

(01:20:50):
Hey,
and see,
like I'm so paranoid about this stuff because I heard that it's not like patronizing prostitution or whatever,
you know,
it's like uh a sex trafficking charge for the Johns now or whatever or some crap.
It's like participation in,
in human trafficking or something that don't sound cool to me.
You know,
like I could almost get away with patronizing uh prostitution.
Like it has a nice ring to it.

(01:21:11):
But nowadays it's like uh uh enabler of a,
of human trafficking or something that don't sound good at all.
That sounds like a lot of time in prison to me.
Yo,
fuck that.
Hey,
we need to set up a service because if I'm a chick,
you know who I want to get fucked by,
I want to get fucked by a dude who just got out of jail who's been in jail for 10 years.
I mean,
this guy is thirsty for some puss.

(01:21:33):
I mean,
could you imagine same thing here.
Like we should set up a service of women who are trying to serve their country and just give a inmate who's fresh out,
just give him a little bit of puss.
He's probably not gonna last long and,
but you are gonna make that guy so fucking happy and we could do it for the,
for the women too who are getting out.
I mean,
come on,
someone needs to give my guy Wesley just a little bit of puss.

(01:21:56):
I mean,
I,
I,
I,
oh dear God,
I don't want it.
It comes,
look this,
it,
it ties into my whole getting shit done because I'm not gonna lie.
Every guy that I know that I still maintain contact with that got out of prison is literally with and it,
it is nothing wrong with it.
But they are still with the first person that gave them a up,
They got a hug slipped in and they're in a relationship.

(01:22:19):
I literally don't have time.
I,
I was at least 10 years of addiction plus the 12 years in prison or whatever.
I'm at least 20 years behind on.
I have barely,
no,
I had a truck.
That's my asset.
I've got some money in some,
some,
I got some financial means that are,
that are there.
That is my asset.
I don't have a house.
I don't have an apartment.
I don't have a job.
I'm not in school.

(01:22:40):
I don't,
you know,
I have prospects.
I'm still trying to figure out my path forward from here,
whether,
which route it's gonna go.
But pussy is gonna fucking hamper that.
I might as well be getting a little high.
If I could get away with being high,
I might as well be getting a little high and,
and,
and putting shit on the back burner.
I can't put,
I think that's gonna,
you know,

(01:23:00):
I don't knock anybody.
I do trust me.
I definitely wanna have sex,
but I know that that would be inhibiting me from the progress that I made.
I've been out of prison 22 weeks.
Uh I won't talk to him about it by name.
But the guy that got out a day after me,
we clicked up.
Same prison,
same halfway house.
He didn't have anybody in the state.

(01:23:20):
Uh I don't want to demean him by saying I took him under my wing.
But uh I took it upon myself to make sure that he's right there with me.
We'll say,
He ain't want for nothing.
Uh And,
and,
but he less than two weeks out of prison.
He is a General Manor.
Juror got a job as I'm talking about seven years in prison.

(01:23:42):
ST Unseen is now in general arrest.
General manager of a restaurant just started the other day.
Uh,
we both got vehicles so a little pick up with his vehicle,
but we're,
we're gonna work it out.
But,
uh,
you know,
we've made more progress in the first two weeks of getting out than most guys do in three months.
You know,
there's guys that leave the halfway house that might not have a driver's license still,

(01:24:05):
definitely don't even have a car.
We got all that.
Now,
I'm,
I'm the ugly duckling of,
of our pair because I'm not employed yet.
But I haven't really started looking because I'm got my fingers crossed for this company.
You can put,
uh,
which you all named,
dropped one day if they ever get,
if they get the job.
But,
uh,
but I mean,
like we're,
we're doing it and,
and the reason I think that is other than spiritual aspect is because we're staying focused on the business,

(01:24:31):
the pleasure will come.
The pleasure will come,
it will come one way or the other.
It,
it'll happen.
But we were so goal oriented on getting this stuff accomplished.
But like I said,
I mean,
we're might be further along than some people are a year after they get,
Like we,
I mean,
we're just,
we're just doing it and I want to be a success.

(01:24:52):
I don't want to,
I'm not gonna fall back into old patterns like drug use or anything like that.
That's that's a nonstarter for me.
I don't even like talking about it.
People that know me from the past are like,
well,
what are you gonna,
you know you're gonna do?
And I was like,
don't fucking insult,
I literally take it as a personal fucking affront when someone questions my sincerity or fucking whatever the right word is about not fucking off no more with drugs.

(01:25:16):
Uh But everything goes back to pussy.
Yeah,
I'm ready because I bet if,
if,
if I got a job and it's been a week and I ain't had pussy then it ain't for sale somewhere in Memphis.
I promise you.
Oh man,
I don't blame you.
I,
I just,
yo I admire your damn self-control because I know these things have got to be going through your head.

(01:25:39):
But you're just like,
man,
you just really are like the model citizen of,
you know,
getting out of prison and doing it the right fucking way.
So congratulations.
I just,
I just don't understand how some of these people get out of prison and like you said,
they have nothing like what,
what are you supposed to do?
OK?
I got out of prison.
I have nothing.

(01:26:00):
You know,
you have nowhere to stay.
I don't have a job.
You can't get a job because you're a felon.
Like what the fuck are these people supposed to do?
Except go back to crime?
Well,
that,
that's what they want.
I mean,
it,
it's it's,
prison is like,
you know,
it,
it is a cash register,
you know,
just like there,
there will always be a need for liquor stores and,
and,

(01:26:20):
and prisons,
you know,
like when times are bad,
both of them are cool.
Uh,
so,
but the thing about it is,
uh,
we got,
you know,
obviously my fault getting off on a different tangent but prison will work.
But it takes,
I think it's gonna take,
it's,
it'll be a generational thing before you start seeing statistics bumping down in a recognizable or knowledgeable uh increment because got,

(01:26:47):
got to start school at a young age because in my town right now they got 12 year old killed Carjacking,
wearing ankle monitors and,
and running people over and,
and,
and car and armed Carjacking.
So,
I mean,
that's,
you've already been arrested once this week and this is all within like a AAA five day period,
got arrested,
went to juvenile court,

(01:27:09):
got fingerprinted or whatever they do to juveniles,
put an ankle monitor on you and now you're out doing it again in less than a week.
I mean,
that's,
that's bad.
You know,
it's,
it's because a lot of their dads are in prison,
It's because of the,
you know,
the family life.
It's because of uh societal tendencies or,
you know,
the way things are going now.

(01:27:30):
But like,
I don't blame just the parents,
I blame the schools,
I,
I blame the kids themselves.
I,
I,
I blame,
you know,
everybody that should have a part in it because give us something,
give the people that are leaving prison a means to make the means because if you go out and go to a halfway house and you get you a fucking even,
I mean,
it's crazy,
you can go make chicken sandwiches at chick-fil-a for $18 an hour.

(01:27:52):
That to me is crazy even as the expensive thing is.
But you know,
so you start doing that while you're at the halfway house,
you don't have a vehicle.
Well,
your time's up between 90 some,
some programs or 90 days,
some six months,
some or a year or whatever.
But you're,
you know,
you get a grant where they pay for your house.
I did not do the grant because I'm not a petty motherfucker.

(01:28:14):
Uh because a lot of people don't realize and they don't care.
But I researched,
once I became aware that I was about to be getting out of prison,
I went head first and to know when everything is about parole,
about getting out of prison,
what to expect.
And it was a cram section.
But there was a grant given every year for free house.
It's called A R H P grant.
Uh Basically,

(01:28:34):
I don't know what the acronym stands for,
but it's basically they pay for your halfway house for like the first three months now.
I don't have the mentality of man.
They got 11 years of my life.
I need everything free that I can get.
Uh So I didn't take the grant because,
well,
to be honest,
the reason I didn't take the grant because I thought it was gonna take too long to process.
I wanted to go to this halfway house.

(01:28:55):
So I said I've got cash and that's how I handled it.
That was the motivating factor.
But after the fact,
it was a two part thing,
I was like,
that's cool because I'm not taking money because that money runs out fiscal year in Tennessee starts in July and ends in June.
That money is usually gone by the end of May.
So if you're getting out in June,
well,
you're fucked until the,
you're gonna sit an extra three weeks,

(01:29:17):
four weeks in prison until the budget re ups the grant.
So it was a good thing.
It was,
that was not my original intention,
but you know,
that's how it fell.
But uh so you get here,
you're doing your thing.
Let's say you're doing everything you can.
They uh there's a program here in uh Tennessee or in Shelby County called the Shelby County office of re entry.
They uh provide you with bus passes and things to get you going.

(01:29:38):
They're like a hub.
They are not the resource center,
like you can't get all the resources there,
but they're,
they're like,
I don't know what the term is nowadays.
Like they do all the networking for,
you know,
like you go here to do this,
you go here to do this,
you go here to do that's that place.
Now,
to me,
it would almost make too much sense to find a big ass fucking empty building that there's plenty of in Memphis that are on the bus lines because buses are a big thing in Memphis and put all these fucking resources in one place.

(01:30:09):
So,
you know,
you're not riding four hour anyway.
You know,
I could harp I told you in,
in the email,
I could harp on read the truth and recidivism forever because this shit ain't right.
Like,
you know,
this is a major metropolitan area and it's,
it you're set up for,
you know,
when you leave prison,
they give you a state ID,
uh a birth certificate and a social security card and that's it.

(01:30:32):
The Reentry services at your local prison are on top of the shit because by law in Tennessee,
you have to leave prison with a state ID but they want you to leave with,
you know,
the stuff it takes to get other things going.
So if you don't have a reentry service that is on,
you'd be lucky to leave with an ID.
But uh I think that everything needs to be integrated.

(01:30:53):
You know,
there's no point in having it's almost like a waste,
a waste to me.
It's like a waste of resources to have this,
this centralized hub that's supposed to be the office reentry that are providing all these networking things.
I don't need the fucking network.
Y'all need to,
this needs to be in the look,
we got a mall that's bankrupt.
That's about to get shut down.

(01:31:13):
That's got all this space.
Put,
make it a freaking government building.
Put the D N B in here,
put the child support how to line up,
you know,
start getting right.
Put the,
the,
the resume builders here,
put the classes here on how to fucking,
you know,
mop or run a forklift.
I mean like there is money in it,
it will take money but nobody wants to pay to have prisoners taken care of felons after they're released.

(01:31:36):
These are the motherfuckers that are about to be robbing your ass this fucking weekend because you know,
That,
that's what it boils down to.
That's what is you're put in such a bad spot that you had nothing to resort to except your old pattern.
But if they change that fucking pattern in prison and continue reinforcing that new armed behavior that you picked up.

(01:31:58):
Of course,
not everything you pick up in prison is bad,
but it really would be better if they modernized what they're doing with the vocation programs.
Like there ain't no reason why everybody that leave in prison.
If you ain't got $10,000 minimum when you walk out the door of prison you're coming back.
That's,
that's,
that,
that,
that might be a little stretch because it takes $10,000 to,

(01:32:21):
at bare minimum going through a halfway house program.
Let's say you work three months or six months or whatever it is,
you gotta have money for a vehicle.
Even if you're utilizing the bush,
you can't count on it to get you to work on time or where exactly you need to go.
So you need money for at least to get you towards a vehicle or at least get you into a place because if you,
if you don't have a place to live and the utilities to turn on,

(01:32:42):
you can deal without a mickle,
you can catch the bus or rob a one of the man,
they got these little fucking bikes everywhere,
these little scooters that you like touch with your phone and you rent for 20.
I mean,
dude,
it's like I feel like George but oh,
this is funny note,
I,
I meant to tell you this earlier.
I have a friend that refers to me as Kimmy Schmidt.
I didn't know what the fuck he was talking about.
You know,
I,
I thought,
I thought she was saying Jimmy but I like googled it some chick that was in a bomb shelter or a cult or something and come out and was like,

(01:33:06):
oh look at all the tall buildings in the telephone.
So so like it's a running joke.
She calls me Kimmy Schmidt all the time.
But I feel more like fucking enso man.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like,
but it's,
but uh like I said,
I can harp on reentry.
I,
I think that as big a business as corrections is you don't need for us to fail and retards wind up waiting to take the bet face.

(01:33:33):
So you don't have to worry about the return of business.
Set us up for.
I mean,
like I said,
man,
set,
train us,
motivate us,
educate us because there is a different path now.
Not everybody's gonna be like me.
I,
like I said,
I,
I predominantly stay sober while I was in prison.
Uh But I've never messed with any of the drugs that I used to me.

(01:33:55):
No cocaine,
heroin,
pit weed,
all that kind of crap,
meth,
whatever.
Uh but not everybody's gonna be able to,
to stay straight in prison because it's a lot to fucking take in.
You know,
I would not be remiss if I had flipped my fucking wrist.
Because what I did was fucking horrible soul crushing.
You know,

(01:34:15):
when I sat up there on the stand and,
and the judge was going over my rights as I pled guilty instead of taking it to trial or whatever.
He was like,
you understand this,
this and this and I was like,
I,
I remember something pitt was a motherfucker.
I said,
you sure it has to be at 15,
15 years at 100%.
It can't be.
That's the minimum that they allow.
And I said,
sign on the line,
I ain't gonna lie,
man.
I made it about 15 ft out of the courtroom into the security tunnel and I was sobbing,

(01:34:37):
snot running down my nose.
Man.
It,
it,
but after about five,
probably not five minutes,
probably three or four minutes or whatever,
but I got up,
wiped off,
went back to sale and I was like,
man,
they hit me and I went and did my time.
Not everybody can do that.
So train us,
give us something to look for.
Like,
because a lot of us didn't have that.
I did.
I had,
I had a mother that I never even wondered what it was like not to have a father because I had so much love coming from my mother.

(01:35:02):
That's how awesome a leader she was.
But,
uh,
not everybody even had that.
They were raised by their grandmother or their aunt or their older sibling or something.
Give us something to strive for,
to hope for because getting out of prison,
other than the fact that you're getting out is more stress than being in prison for some people,
you know,
because they,
they don't have anything,

(01:35:23):
they know that they're gonna have to go out out there and they're gonna,
you know,
they're not thinking about getting a driver's license or a car or they might be thinking about materialistic shit,
but they're not thinking about six months down the line,
much less a year.
I'm thinking five.
I'm trying to think 10 years because I've already got a whole thing with my credit building,
my credit,
get secured loans and all that kind of stuff.
I'm working on all that because I had a game plan because I realized I was getting out of prison one day and I did not want to come back and not everybody's got that.

(01:35:49):
Not everybody has that ability,
but there is a way to give every single person that is gonna step out of prison.
Same ability as I had maybe not the exact,
you know,
amounts or whatever.
But there's a way to train us up,
you know,
there's there,
there's the way like lead a horse to water.
You can train us,
you can do all that.
That's all great.
These programs are great,
but there will always be people that buck it up or,

(01:36:11):
you know,
I never tape to it or whatever.
But if you give us the opportunity,
we're getting out,
we're gonna be standing next to you at Joseph,
a Banks $1000 Suit store.
Because I've been there this week.
It,
it's like it happens.
We're gonna be next to you at the movie theater.
We're gonna be the guy.
Like I walked in the target.
I made a mistake on an item and I said,

(01:36:32):
hey,
man,
please go check this.
I think I got overcharged.
She was like,
yeah,
go ahead.
I came back,
went through this whole spiel was like,
I think it's 1999.
I think the,
the,
the shell says it's 27.
She,
she pulled out her phone scanned and she goes,
well,
my phone says it's 21.
I was like,
that's better than 27.
I'll take,
I ain't worried about the $2 difference and we got over to customer service and she goes,
and she rang me up in 1999.

(01:36:53):
I was like,
oh you did that.
She's like,
yeah,
honey,
she was like,
you,
you were nothing but nice to me.
She goes,
she goes,
I was like,
what do you mean?
She goes,
you ain't yelling and cussing at me about the price being fucked up.
And I was like,
people do that and she goes,
I get cussed out all day every day.
This is a target in a nice neighborhood.
I'm like,
that's fucked up man.
Society has gone the fucking whack.
You know what it is is y'all motherfuckers that ain't been in prison.

(01:37:16):
He done a fucking decade over some dumb shit.
Don't appreciate what you got.
But I'm like walking around.
Yes,
ma'am.
Thank you,
ma'am.
Yes,
sir.
You know,
and like,
you know,
showing respect to everybody.
But it's like,
that's crazy that people were cussing out.
Like,
I know everybody has a bad day.
I worked at,
behind the store at the convenience center and occassionally somebody put something up or their card weren't working.

(01:37:38):
Right.
And they were talking to me.
You want to get mad at me?
I know it.
I didn't,
I didn't take it personally.
I'm standing in a mcdonald's and like everything is I'm standing in there not knowing you're supposed to like had done something on your phone and scan a code or something and order from the app or I had no idea.
So we're standing there like five minutes and not know what's going on and some woman come up out of nowhere and started cussing somebody out because of ketchup on a burger or something like,

(01:38:00):
you know,
you really,
I mean,
like,
really you're cussing somebody out over fucking ketchup not being in the bag or something when it's easy to just say,
hey,
can I get some ketchup for you?
It,
it just,
I,
I think,
I think people need to slow.
Uh you know,
I got sidetracked again but so much stuff to fucking noticed,
man,
it,
it,
it blows my mind like how quick people are to,
to freak out and I don't think it's called for.

(01:38:23):
But then again,
you know,
I'm,
I'm,
I'm wide eyed and star struck.
I'm like AAA Maiden Elf going through the,
the forest glade because I just,
I'm fresh out of prison so everything's new,
bright and shiny and fresh.
But yeah,
guys to prison man and,
and,
and I think uh not to cut you off.
I think that this is why it's so awesome to talk to you because yeah,

(01:38:47):
I ain't never been to prison and yeah,
I take advantage of a lot of shit.
I don't cuss people out at mcdonald's.
But uh I,
I think a lot of people are,
they're just comfortable,
they take advantage of everything.
It seems like people just in general this people,
people don't treat people like other people anymore.
They treat people like shit all the time.
And maybe people listening to your experience and other experience of people who,

(01:39:11):
you know,
took away everything,
your wife,
your kids,
everything,
your freedom for 11 years.
Hopefully people can,
you know,
say,
hey,
you know what?
Damn it,
I can go outside right now,
you know,
I can go smell the grass.
I can go,
I can order a mcdonald's.
If I want,
I can go to Burger King,
you know,
I can fuck my wife.
I can pet my dog,

(01:39:31):
you know,
and that's,
that's the shit you couldn't do any of it.
It's hard to imagine,
man.
Yeah.
Uh I was very fortunate like everything you just listed,
I basically did it set the set.
Uh I've,
I've,
you know,
my first five years in prison was prison.
You know,
I worked in a welding shop.
Uh I saw the people get killed and seen the guy had six guys carry him,

(01:39:52):
his dead body or he was dying,
been stabbed like 40 times and left a trail all the way to the clinic.
That was,
I got the full prison experience.
My first five years after that,
I became a trustee or N X eligible or trustee eligible because of time frame.
I was under 10 years.
So I,
I took the first thing smoking to an N and annexes are lovely.
And I uh had everything I wanted pretty much,

(01:40:15):
you know,
uh due to different circumstances or whatever.
But,
you know,
it,
it,
the last place I had,
I had my own pet when I was at the shop I worked at,
you know,
we had shot cats to keep the,
the mice and stuff at.
But,
uh,
you know,
I worked in the free world for a year and a half as a community service worker.
Uh I was loaned out to one of the municipalities near the prison and basically I did road work and the roads and we needed fixed guard rail and picked up right on them.

(01:40:41):
We were got you I learned were more staff,
security staff and administrators work at these prisons because I'm going by picking up the garbers and seeing them getting ready to go to work.
You know what I'm saying so like,
you know,
it was kind of,
you know,
jarring,
you know,
to see staff outside it and you would think they'd be fucked up about it,
right?
You know,
like,
oh God,

(01:41:01):
this inmate knows where I live.
But like,
it ain't like that because they try not to put fucking retards animal.
Now there will always be that some that flip through crap.
I'm a retard myself technically because I did some dumb shit and I got told on and admitted to it like a dumb ass does not set you free morally,
it sets you free.
Do deny,
deny,

(01:41:22):
deny,
deny,
deny,
deny,
do not admit,
even though it is the right thing to do.
But anyway,
that's the old meat.
The new meat does not live like that.
I don't have to lie about a contraband cell phone.
I don't have to lie about getting tobacco or,
or whatever doing this,
that and the other,
you know,
so that's a lot of stress off of me.

(01:41:42):
But uh I don't know,
man,
I lost my complete train of thought about,
I,
I don't have to lie anymore.
So I'm glad I don't have to deny,
deny,
deny.
You know,
I don't mind,
you know,
you can,
you,
if you got 20 questions lined up,
I'll give you 100% like I was talking to God honest truth.
Because now there is a difference between honesty and truth.
But uh,
you know,
I'd be straightforward.

(01:42:03):
I,
I,
like I said,
I don't live,
I,
I,
I carry myself in a way that I,
I don't cause conflict so I don't have to deal with conflict.
I don't deal if it comes out,
that's where I get in trouble is because if I don't see conflict coming,
I can't be ready for it.
So I tend to resort to old tactics and old responses and you're at a four and I'm already at a 15 and on my way to jail or you realize what happened and like I said,

(01:42:26):
I'm not a competition for,
I'm not a bad ass at all.
I,
I,
you know,
I've literally walked away from,
I've literally walked away from motherfuckers,
spit in my face calling me a bitch ass fucking or which is like,
you know,
a triple dog deer.
That's the equivalent of the triple dog deer in prison.
You're a bitch ass fucking or any spit on me.
I literally turned away and just walked away.
It felt like a fucking piece of shit,

(01:42:48):
you know,
kind of thing.
So I,
I lived to avoid confrontation but if I don't see it coming,
I don't react well,
you know,
uh but,
and that's the bad thing to be in this society because nobody wants to fight out here on the streets,
they're shooting motherfuckers or running you over,
you know what I'm saying,
there ain't there is,
you thought there was nothing to talk about in prison out here.
There is even less to talk about.

(01:43:09):
If you're walking in front of somebody and you ain't moving through the,
the parking lot quick enough,
they're gonna run you over,
they're gonna shoot you or do both.
They might do both.
They did it to a guy,
a guy at a gas station right before I got out in my neighborhood.
They do,
I don't know what he did,
but they,
they literally ran his ass over and backed up over him and then ran him over again.
That's fucked up,
man.
People need a,
a healthy outlet how to fucking deal with these issues,

(01:43:32):
man.
Yo,
that's crazy.
Uh Well,
we,
we,
I think that's all I have for you today.
I just wanna say holy shit.
What?
And uh first of all,
I've had an,
a,
a great time talking to you.
Thank you for talking to me.
But I think more than more than anything,
I've been so educated today.

(01:43:52):
Uh just on,
you know how it is inside prison.
What can we do to make it better?
And just,
I feel like I've walked a couple feet in your shoes.
I haven't walked the whole mile in your shoes,
but a but a couple of feet and it is fucking insane and crazy.
I'm so thankful that you took the time to talk to me and I think everybody listening to this can really uh benefit from hearing your fucking crazy ass life the past 15 years.

(01:44:22):
Thank you.
I appreciate being here.
Thank you.
Yeah,
of course.
Is,
is,
is there anything,
do you want to plug a social media account or a website or anything like that?
I'm,
I'm still learning.
This is the first time I've ever zoomed,
man.
Hey,
look,
when I told somebody I was,
I had to do a Skype or whatever.
They said they don't Skype anymore.
It's zoom,

(01:44:45):
but it's the same damn thing.
Tell them shut the hell up.
Yeah,
I was like,
I'm,
I'm stuck in 2011 but I,
I'm trying to,
I'm trying to come up in but no man,
I appreciate you having me.
Just,
people just need to be aware,
man,
that the people probably more than 90% of the people in prison are getting out.
We're coming home,
they're coming home.
They need,
society needs to recognize things have to be done in preparation.

(01:45:08):
So we don't go back,
you know,
unless they just want to come straight out and acknowledge that they want us going like that.
If that's not the case,
then there's things that can be done.
Programs,
resources inside and out,
young and old,
get the young before they get to the point to where they're Carjacking in sixth grade.
You know,
that's not cool.

(01:45:28):
It's cool to them at six in sixth grade.
I thought it was bad ass to steal some bonkers from the fucking corner store,
little puy candies or whatever.
Now,
the,
you know,
they're,
they're robbing the cash,
And that ain't,
that ain't,
that ain't where it's at.
So things gotta change.
People will have to fucking pay attention because it's not out of sight,
out of mind.
We're in your driveway,

(01:45:49):
we're next to you at the grocery store,
we're there.
It's just,
we're coming back.
We all need to be ready.
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
You know what?
Hey,
if you were my next door neighbor,
I wouldn't mind.
Uh Oh Yeah,
man,
you're awesome dude.
You're definitely not uh you break the stereotype but thank you so much for coming on Wesley.

(01:46:10):
You're awesome,
dude.
You don't know.

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#22 Wesley | In prison for 4251 days, sex in prison, going from prisoner to citizen

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#22 Wesley | In prison for 4251 days, sex in prison, going from prisoner to citizen