Selling Solutions: Mastering Business through Relationships

In this insightful episode of our business podcast, Jory and special guest Colin Harms delve into the intricacies of sales and business development. With Colin's diverse experience in various sales roles, from food industry beginnings to real estate and corporate sectors, the duo explores the essence of building solid relationships, the importance of reputation, and the perseverance required in entrepreneurship. They share personal anecdotes and valuable lessons on distinguishing between transactional sales and genuine business development, emphasizing that true success comes from understanding and solving customer needs while maintaining authenticity in every interaction.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
At the end of the day,when you're in business, you're there
to solve a problem for somebody.It's always goes back to that.
You're going to provide value tosomeone that solves a problem
for them.And literally, I'm peddling a
case of tomatoes and I'mselling stuff that I don't even
know how to pronounce.But I was really good at it.
Many of the biggest and bestentrepreneurs in the world had
bankruptcies, half a dozen failedbusinesses before they ever

(00:20):
actually had their big success.They've been through all the crap
that everyone else has been through.It's that they just didn't quit
when it was hard.You get one chance to make a
first impression.That's when employees start just
showing up and wanting to workfrom you.
That's when customers justshowing up at your front door.
Your reputation will either bepositive or negative.
There's no in-between.Welcome to the Build the Lead

(00:41):
podcast.We've got, something new for you
today. Something new, someone new.I know you're tired of listening to
me and Tyler blather on all day, today we've got for you,
Colin Haarms. Good friend of mine,
father of two beautiful daughters.I can attest to that carefully.

(01:01):
, Colin,is going to help us today.
He is, in my mind, an expert in, in the topic that we're going
to talk about today, which issales and business development,
, we're doing for this series, 12 Stages of Building an
Epic Business is kind of how Ilook at it and the things that

(01:21):
you need to know to do that.And I don't consider myself an expert
in sales, in business development,I I've done well, but it's one
of those areas that I think thatI'm definitely still learning,
, a lot from Colin.And, so just to introduce Colin,
Colin, started out kind of inthe food industry, entry level

(01:41):
ended up doing sales just kindof through some interesting,
steps along the way, as in withanyone's journey, worked in the
garbage industry for many yearsin sales and business management.
Worked his way up the did thecorporate ladder thing there for
a while, got his real estate license on
the on the side is kind of a sidehustle, which turned into a little

(02:02):
bit more than that in the long run.He's very humble about it,
but I don't think that it's reallya side hustle, even though it is.
But it isn't. But it is, so there's another form of
sales that Colin's done inbusiness development.
, he is now, working with, as an owner partner in hyper
vac industries, a business thathe's recently, not so recently,

(02:24):
but recently acquired and of course,grown and developed and done sales
for and, and he's here to helpus out today. Welcome, Colin.
Hey, thanks for having me.Appreciate it. Yeah.
It's good I've gotten to know Colinpretty good over the last few years.
It's been a couple of years.That's been a couple of years,
for sure.Going for lunch and banging around
ideas and, yeah, having 3 to4 hour lunches. So every time.

(02:47):
We had to put limits on the podcastbecause if it's like a regular
lunch should be, you guys wouldbe like all passed out and like,
are these guys done yet?So anyway, we're going to talk about
sales and business development today.And the reason I want to I say
sales and business developmentis because they're the kind of
like those buzzwords, right?We talk about networking and

(03:08):
sales and business development,and they just come out.
And I think especially when you'rea small business and even me now
in like a medium sized business,sometimes I feel like I don't
even know what that means.Like we need to do more sales, right?
Right. Well, someone can say that.We can say that in a board meeting.
And in fact, has been said manytimes in many of our board meetings.

(03:29):
And then everyone kind of justgoes quiet, like,
what does that even mean?So I guess we'll start with just
like, what? What is the perception?Like, what is sales?
How do we get into sales, and what do we need to be doing?
There's so many questions thatare surrounded, but I'll just
kind of let you speak to that.To be to start, Colin is like, what
do you what is sales? Yeah for sure, to me,

(03:52):
over the years I've learned thatsales is transactional, right?
It's, you know,people use all the acronyms and
sometimes they drive me crazy,whether it's B2B, B2C. Right.
I think we confuse ourselvesdoing that.
But sales itself is transactional.We're selling one item or we're
selling the same customer, the sameitem over and over and over and over,

(04:15):
and we misconstrue it and call itbusiness development by saying,
I'm developing that customer.Well, you're not really
developing that customer, right?We're selling them that phone
over and over and over orwhatever it is that we do.
And I think for a number of years, Iwas fortunate to start out literally
selling a case of tomatoes and,to multiple different customers.

(04:39):
And it gave me the ability to learnwhat people are or how people act
or what they do, how they respond, very early on, you know,
was it a price game?Is it like, how do you build a
relationship with somebody?I was young, I was 20 years old,
you know, and I'm, I'm dealingwith a person probably 30, 40.
Years older than I am, they own businesses.

(05:02):
They've been in it.They understand their costs.
And and literally,I'm peddling a case of tomatoes,
and and I'm selling stuff that Idon't even know how to pronounce.
But I was really good at it. Yeah, and I think I was good at it
because I would listen to thecustomer and I would research
what they're looking for. Right.And then that's how you learn, right?

(05:23):
That was more,more studying the craft.
, so so I got really good at it.And I actually like, like doing that.
, and then, you know, we canfast forward a number of years to,
to where I am today and lookingsales versus business development.
They are two totally differentbeasts.

(05:45):
They're not even in the same realm.They shouldn't even be in the
same room for that matter. Yeah.And people just put them right
together. Think something to that.I, I've seen so many times and I'll
and my experience is obviouslydifferent than your experience
and everyone's but people getlike kind of thrust into sales
things like whether you sign upfor the newspaper job to go sell

(06:05):
vacuum cleaners door to door,or you go into a call center and
you're doing cold calling or likeselling tomatoes to random people.
Yeah, people like out of necessitykind of end up in these situations,
but they under appreciate the valueof the lesson that they can learn
through just sheer repetition. Yeah.And if you're self-aware and
perceptive enough that thatbattlefield there because it's a

(06:28):
battlefield like it's. It's.Hard on your ego, on your
personality, on your people skills,but you like, are just trial by fire.
It seems like in that scenarioand people who start early into
that game and like,realize that they're good at it,
the trajectory and what they cando with those skills are huge,
right? That's right.Like and the like I go back to the

(06:50):
multi-level marketing stuff. Right.It's I feel like it's less
popular now than it kind of was.It kind of had that kind of boom
period.But what it did is it developed
sales skills into people andhelped them to understand what
works and what doesn't.When it goes to being transactional.
That's right.Or being relational. Yeah, right.
Well, you know what I can touch on,like the MLM thing.

(07:13):
, there's there's that's corny.There's multiple levels of success.
Obviously.It's yeah, it's literal levels.
That's what it is, why I think it can be
effective if, if Sam is going tosay an MLM scheme, not a scheme
if I'm running an MLM team. Yeah, scheme team. The scheme team.

(07:35):
But I understand the metrics.Yeah. And I back it out.
I can have 15 people in a room or 15people working on a team, all doing
different things and progressing.If if I'm running it based on how
am I going to get rich quick?It's going to be very,
very shortsighted.And a lot of them were like,

(07:56):
you know, now that we're on the otherside of many of these MLM scenarios.
They were like rocket horizons andthen down and gone just as fast.
Right?And then most of those were built to
build a build it, sell it trash.Right. And and that happened.
Whereas some of them that likethat still exist.
Like I, I think Norwac is a greatexample of one that's like that.
It's been around forever.That's right.

(08:17):
But they're very like my motherin law actually works in Norwac.
And it's a very the way she goesabout it and the way they think
is a business is a very longterm and very relational and
much less transactional.They're not just trying to wean
every dollar.At least my experience with them is.
But I think the proof is in thepudding isn't that they've been
around and they continue to be aroundand they kind of never phase out,

(08:38):
whereas some of these other oneswell down and. Up and down.
And I think part of it is well,in selling, are you selling a
product that somebody needs andwants and continually has to have?
Are you selling a product that'sa one time sale?
,I think he can be successful at both.
, but it all comes down to itdoesn't matter what the environment
is, it's. Do they trust you? Right.Because I'm selling Colin. Yeah.

(09:01):
When I go into a room or I meetsomebody, I, I, I don't actually
really care at the end if I,if I do get the sale.
Yeah, I know I probably will.And that's not being cocky.
It's just over time I will getthat sale.
, but I if I go in thinking I needthis sale by the end of the day,
, you know, I'll probably fail.And I had a circumstance.

(09:23):
Somebody was selling me on a CRMsystem, a few months ago,
and everything was going well,and it was a great investment.
Like, it was a it was an expensiveinvestment, not knowing if it was
going to work or not completely.And it was 1:00 in the afternoon and,
, the salesperson called meand said, hey, I'm just going to

(09:44):
email you a document, it's only good until 3 p.m..
, and then the price changes and,and oh, it was like over the top.
I turned my cap.It was like, it's like a machine.
I'm like, this is over.I don't care how good it was.
I don't care how shiny it is,how polished it is.
Well, this is how we do businessat this company and this is who

(10:04):
I'm partnering. And it was over.Yeah. And wow.
And he phoned and phoned andphoned and phoned and apologised
and apologised to his boss.Phoned and apologized.
I said you don't even need toapologize. Yeah.
I said that's just not I'm notdoing business with you.
, that and it was a greatlesson for me to know.
What it felt like on the other side.Yeah.
And I will never I never want tobe that person. No.

(10:27):
People like one of the things Iwrote down about sales, again,
in my little bit of experiencethat I have, is like, people
don't want to be sold to. Right?What you said about, like,
I'm selling Colin once you like,if you understand people and you
just naturally know how to getalong with people, you know that
if you can win them over, right,then it the sale is secondary, right?

(10:48):
Like we don't even need to talkabout that.
A lot of many of the biggestdeals that I've ever done,
I never actually brought it up.They came to me after I built the
relationship and I built a value add,or I just put in value into that
relationship, and eventually theyjust walked through my door saying,
hey, I want to be involved in whatyou're doing, or hey, I think you'd
be good for this or whatever it be.And it's a funny little rule that

(11:10):
I have and this is maybe will beconstrued as manipulative.
But when I ever I meet a couple andI'm doing business with the husband,
if the wife is there, I prettymuch ignore the husband, right?
And I win over the wife firstand then I shift.
And because if you win the wife.The deal's done.
You know, it's funny you say that.And I don't want to give up my trade

(11:32):
secrets, but in in real estate,we use DocuSign all the time. Yeah.
And every single time when it's ahusband and wife or a relationship,
I always put the wife's initialand signature first.
Yeah, because she gets the emailfirst. Yeah. And it's a winner.
Winner chicken dinner.Like it's it's just so and it's
it's not cheesy. It's not corny.It's just a respect thing. Yeah.

(11:55):
It's honoring their part of the deal.Because part of the deal the.
Transactional salesperson doesn'tgive a crap because they're not
the decision maker when they mayvery well be. Yeah.
But like that's what I mean bypeople don't want to be sold to.
Right. Like, yeah.Sales like all the old business
books and all of the strategies andgetting your and again, not that
there's no value in some of thosestructures of getting your sales.

(12:19):
, what is it called, your script.Correct. Your script. Yeah.
And you're like working throughand doing every nuance of that
process to get it tuned right in.Okay. There's value in that.
And it's still there's hugebusinesses that operate off that
thing.But how many telemarketer calls
have you got? How many?You're just discussing the
emails that come through.We're talking about the like
your example of all this is goodtill 3:00.

(12:40):
Like all the tricks in the book,everybody who actually buys anything.
Yeah.And has money to spend has been
beat to death with those things.And they're sick and tired of them.
That's right.They're looking for authenticity.
They're looking.They want to buy from a friend.
That's one of the best lines Iever heard is like, people buy
from their friends. Yeah, right.And if you are now their friend, then
they'll want to buy from you. Yeah.If the product answers the

(13:02):
question that they need to solve.Right. That's right.
But just don't go in selling becauseit's so transactional. That's right.
And I've learned to,business development when you've
when you've turned your client intoa friend and you haven't done it
when you become friends, and youcan relate on a different thing,
whether it's where do you vacation?Oh, that guy likes this type of

(13:22):
boat or whatever.It doesn't really matter what it is.
That's when you've you've solidifiedthe relationship and that is
100% not sales. Yeah, right, there's just so many times
when you can reflect and say,okay, that that wasn't good.
That wasn't how it should be done, and I see new people, you know,

(13:43):
whether they come to my door andthey're trying to sell painting.
Right, seasonal painting.And I'm like, well,
you've never painted before, why are you wearing a
conspicuous vest?No one's going to run over you
in my driveway.Yeah, but these types of things,
I think we can train people thatwork with us or train ourselves,

(14:05):
, just to be better at it.And in one of the things you were
saying, like when they go for thehard sale or they've been taught a
script, I think we should replacescripts, with linguistics.
And like, if we can learn theproper words to say, you know,
in a conversation, but it becomespart of my vocabulary versus

(14:26):
trying to have the conversation orremember the right thing to say.
If that's who you are, yourconversation is going to be a whole
lot better. Yeah, because it's a.Kind of a difference between
disingenuous and yeah,being authentic and genuine is like,
yeah, you should be smooth,you should have charisma, you should
use the right verbiage. Absolutely.You should be professional,
all those things.But you shouldn't need to have a

(14:48):
script to do that.No, the script is there.
So they can use the lowest commondenominator of a human to execute
the sale. That's absolutely which.I is basically almost killing.
That's right. Mark it anyways.Like but humans want to buy from
humans.So like they want to have a
connection when they're buying.Yeah right.
Which is why the relationship theauthenticity, the it still works to

(15:09):
this day. Well and you know what?It was kind of interesting.
Our, you know, the current businesswe're in, in the acquisition,
, people had asked, well,what do you know about the industry?
Absolutely nothing.Wasn't that risky? No.
Absolutely not. Right.Because because I'm actually not
selling that product.That's a product we have, right?

(15:30):
We believe in it.We believe it's the best one out
there, but we're going to sell it
without talking about the product.And I think that's.
A big distinction, though, whatyou just said, because some people
could misconstrue that as like,you don't want to sell something
you don't believe in, right?Like at the end of the day when
you're in business, you're thereto solve a problem for somebody.
That's right.It's always goes back to that.
You're going to provide value tosomeone that solves a problem for

(15:52):
them. And you have to believe that.And you have to know that,
that you're actually going to executeon that because you can be the best
relationship sales guy in the world.And if your product goes and falls
flat on its face, that's right.It's you're going to lose anyways.
So you got to have the right product.Okay.
I was thinking, in my experience,having had a trucking company and
a mechanic shop, and the reasonwe started the mechanic shop is
because we couldn't find a solutionfor our problem that someone

(16:14):
else would solve for us in a waythat we like. So we started out.
But being on both sides of thatcoin was so has been so valuable
in building both businesses,because I understand our
customers so intimately,and I know their frustrations too.
The exact iota of frustration. Right.And and on the other side, I now

(16:34):
understand the shop's frustrationsand part of the reasons they have
such a hard time meeting the demands,like where they need to come together
to work fluidly and cohesively.I can understand both sides now,
which makes us so much better atwhat we do operationally,
and it makes me believe it.So when I'm selling it like I
believe wholeheartedly thatwe're going to be the best
option that you can possibly do.And you know inside what the

(16:58):
results are going to be regardless,right? Yeah.
Because what's going into it's what'sgoing to come out of it. Yeah.
Because I think Hermosa is a guythat that just beats that to death.
It's like you need to work sohard before you sell anything.
You need to work so hard on yourproduct that it is actually like
just exceptional.Because if you like,
you have to be good at sales.If your product sucks because you're
going to have to sell it to a newperson every single time. Yeah.

(17:20):
Whereas when you have anexceptional product, you'll sell
it to one person and they'll sellit to five people after that and
it'll explode like that's whereexponential growth comes from.
But you better be a darn goodsalesman if your product sucks,
because you're going to have toget a new person who's skeptical
each time and convince them tobuy your product. That's right.
And you know what?What's been really, really good
in the last three years is havingthe opportunity to run a company

(17:41):
that we sell internationally and,and one where a Canadian company
selling internationally,two is the. Is going to come up.
What about warranties?What happens when it hits the fan?
And it will? Yeah, how are you going to take
care of this?You know what we've turned that into,

(18:03):
, concern or threat orwhatever it is and to.
Well, that's that's a non-issue.How is that a non-issue while and we,
we go into our, our backup. Yeah.Well explain what you've done because
you've told me some of your customerservice experiences and warranty
coverages and how out of your waythat you went to just make it right.
And once you prove that like andand I was going to get into this

(18:26):
subject a little bit more when weget into the business development
side of the conversation.But like your company's reputation,
integrity is also what you're sellingmore than your product. Right?
So when every every one of thoseroadblocks or problems, when the
crap hits the fan is actually whatyour biggest opportunity to show
up with who you are and what yourcompany is about and make it right.

(18:46):
And we've had a really greatopportunity this year with a whole
bunch of screw ups in one of ourbusinesses to make it right over
and over and over again.And it hurt bad. Yeah.
But in hindsight, looking in therearview, we're still expanding
massively and growing massivelybecause we took those opportunities
to prove that we're going to standbehind our products. That's right.
We're going to show up and makeit right.

(19:06):
We're going to fix it at whateverit costs, however it is,
because that's what who we areas a company. That's right.
Which just proves like you make yourlifetime customers in those moments.
Yeah.When things go good and they get the
value that you told them, that'sactually really not that exceptional.
The most people,it's actually when it comes around
to the day that it really goesbad and they're really upset.
And then you go above and beyondand you win them at that moment.

(19:30):
That's the lifetime customerscenario.
And you know why you hit the nail onthe head is if, if, say, I'm buying
whatever item it is and it, it's$10,000 and the salesperson keeps
selling me and keep selling me, well,that doesn't do anything for me.
I'm willing to pay the $10,000 andI'm paying it for that specific item.

(19:50):
I believe in it. That's what I want.I don't need any more than that.
It's the after sale.Yeah, that that's worth all of it.
And like you said,we've had a number of circumstances
where things went wrong.And I got called out on social
media personally,laying beside a pool in Arizona and
reading it. Those are good days.And, and the guy said,

(20:12):
Colin Herms, if we don't have ananswer by Monday, you're going to be
getting a call from my attorney,and I, I think I choked on a little
of the pool water at that point, within an hour, we we had a plan,
and, my business partner wasflying to new Jersey to,
to make this happen.And you know what we did gain?

(20:33):
We gained lifelong followers.And this particular customer,
we didn't do it for that purpose.We did it because that's what we need
to do right back up our business, he has probably sold more of
what we do then we can. Yeah.To people. Right. People reach out.
Your biggest critics can also be yourbiggest fans, right? Absolutely.

(20:53):
Like they're the loud people,the sprayers, so to speak.
And they talk about it in marketing,right? Yeah.
So so you get into customer service alittle bit here more than sales.
But it's true.Like you have to have these
things before like a lot ofpeople start selling before they
have these things figured out.And then they fall flat on their
face when they do make the salebecause they don't have a good
product or they're not there tosupport it after the fact, and you

(21:16):
can lose everything you gained in themeantime 100%. And you know what?
As you know, we were talking beforewe started, what are the
points of business development?And that actually just made me
think of that is, you know, how dowe build up business development?
Well, define objectives and strategy,right. Hire the right talent.
We talked about that.These are simple.

(21:36):
Create processes and frameworks,develop partnerships and networks.
So when we're selling when oursales force is selling,
if we don't have this businessdevelopment in the background because
that's what we're selling, right?The product is is out in the
forefront.But this is what's being able to say,
this is what our price point is.This is why you're going to do it.

(21:58):
Like with Evans Trucking, this thisis why you're going to hire us.
You know, we're going to getyour product from here to here.
We're going to handle iteverywhere in between.
We're going to handle every stepof the way. That's just the sale.
Yeah, right.The fact that, and I've seen some of
the statistics that Joey has posted, on fulfillment or whatever
you may call it. Right. Yeah.That's business development.

(22:22):
Yeah. Right.When you can say, hey, this is my
company. This is, you know.Evan's trucking. Yeah.
This is what we've actually done.You don't have to say anything
of how you got there.When you can say our fulfillment
rate is this,that's when the trust is built. Yeah.
And the the next topic we're goingto do right after this is we're
going to touch on customer service,word of mouth and marketing a

(22:44):
little bit and kind of a chunkand how I look at them.
But that's actually as a businesswhen I say I'm not good at sales in
business development or I haven'thistorically been, and I'm learning
about it like I feel like in thelast year I've learned more about
sales and business development than Iever knew in the last 20. Right.
But the reason that I didn'thave to get good at that,
not that like we didn't do it,but is because our operational

(23:07):
customer service and our word ofmouth has built every bit of
business that we have, right? Right.And so being good there has actually
created like one strength actuallycreated a weakness on the other side
when you're not looking over yourshoulder, realizing that you're
missing something because you'redoing something on the other side,
but that it it's such a powerfulpart of this whole process and

(23:27):
this building, this build up ofbuilding an epic business,
the series of podcasts that we'redoing, like the all these things,
these steps along the way, if youdon't do them in the right order
and you don't get your your housein order before you start scaling
up and start building momentum,it's this ten year window that I
kind of say where you have tolearn all the hard lessons,
make the mistakes and clean up yourthe things you don't know to become

(23:48):
an expert at what you're doing, if you don't do that process,
then when and I've seen lots ofbusinesses do that, they go out
and they get this rock star salesguy or some the the leader of the
business is an insane sales person,and they're just bringing it through
the door and they're blowing it outthe back because no one's coming
back after the first experience.That's right.
And and that's where like thisis the business.

(24:10):
What you're saying with businessdevelopment is that you need to
build the structure to house thesales that you're going to make.
That's right. Right.And when you like LTV, lifetime,
, lifetime value and value of acustomer and all that, like it's
something that early business ownersjust don't even think about or talk
about typically, or. That's right.Carry forward because it's like
they're not thinking that long term,but you can stumble really hard

(24:33):
when you actually get get the viralscenario where the really big sale
or the word of mouth starts takingoff and you're not ready for it,
you haven't developed your businessto the point to handle it.
You do yourself a bigger disservice.Oh for sure, that than than
anything else you can do. Yeah, a couple things I wanted to
touch on, in in your mind,what is, what is the hardest

(24:55):
part of sales like, as a person, a lot of people get thrust into
sales or they're you're buildinga business and you're not like,
like me.You're not a sales person
necessarily. You're not.You're whether you're awkward,
you're quiet,you're introverted or whatever.
What is the stuff that, like,scares people off of sales or
the thing that they want the,the hump or the hill that they

(25:16):
won't go over to learn their waythrough it? You know what?
I think it's deeper than, people.Number one thing people would say
across the board is rejection.People have a hard time with
with rejection. You know what?I think it's deeper than that.
I think it's, you know,from from birth to wherever you
are now in your life.And, and this gets a little deep
is everybody's seen somethingdifferent growing up,

(25:39):
going through different situations, you know, home life,
whatever it may be, work, life.They've witnessed something they
probably shouldn't have or or maybethey've had a silver spoon. Right.
There's two sides to the spectrum, I think the greatest fear anybody
going into sales has is themselves,right?
It's not the rejection,it's themselves.

(26:00):
What if I say the wrong thing?What if they. What if I stumble?
What if I fall? Right?Fear of failure. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
And failure and rejection aretwo different things, right?
I can fail on a sale real quick,but it's not because I was
rejected by the customer. Right?If that makes sense. Yeah.
Like you burned your own bridgethere. It wasn't actually 100% right.

(26:22):
It's no different than tryingout for a sports team.
And I watched as my daughterswent through school. Right.
I'm like, well,you're not actually good at that.
So I know how this story ends.A little too honest, dad.
You were you were a £65. Yeah.Probably not wrestling. Yeah.
And they never did that.But I but I look at it and and do we

(26:44):
set ourselves up for failure. Right.It's one thing if somebody is
resilient and can go after it and andthey have a mindset to win. Right.
, and maybe we maybe that'sthe point we need to make about
what stops them.Mindset stops them. Right? Yeah.
I was thinking that when youwere saying that is like that

(27:04):
whole is did I fail or did.Customer does not need or want
what I was selling, because Ithink there's a great distinction
there when people who make it insales and figure that mindset out
is they go, okay, I went there,I showed up, I did the sale,
or I tried to make a sale.I tried to make a relationship.
I tried to do whatever, and theyjust didn't need what I wanted.
That's not on me. That's right.Whereas some people will take it

(27:27):
personally.And you, you've met the salesman
who takes it personally.They're like,
you need to buy this pink hair dye.And you're like,
I do not want your pink hair bald.You're yeah, I'm bald. You're.
Or yeah, I sell me a comb.I don't have any hair.
You know, that's the thing.And it's like they take it
personally, like, no, you need this.And then they're just, like,
desperate to sell to you.And then it's just very a

(27:48):
turnoff ish thing. Yeah.But then when they leave,
you can see that, like,I've let people down and go,
do you want your products? Great.I think you're going to do
amazing with this. Yeah.But it's just not what we're
looking for right now.And they're just like, they're done.
They're defeated right then andthere.
Whereas the person who makes it islike, oh, you don't need what I,
what I'm selling. Cool.And they move on right, right.

(28:09):
It's the not don't take no foran answer crap that gets pushed
sometimes.And you got assigned by three
like that whole. Yeah.It they're so emotionally tied
into the sale instead of lookingto provide value to the customer.
That's right.When you see, oh there's no value
here and you move on to the next oneto look for value, then you can keep
chugging right like it's the reps.Thing is, if there's a two,

(28:31):
two out of 100 that you're actuallygoing to sell, and that's just
the reality of the situation,then you look for the value in the
conversation. That's right. Right.And I think sales training is
somewhat done the wrong way in inthe most part, because what we
do is when you train somebody,we incentivize them.
We say, okay,we're going to pay you this.

(28:52):
But if you do this, this,this and this, you could make this.
Well, it's people being people.So immediately they're going to go,
how do I get from here to here?They want to gamify the system,
right? Yeah, yeah.And at all costs. Right.
As opposed to is the long game.The winning game is at the short
game. What is it, I wanted to touch back and I'll

(29:14):
tie it into that is, years ago.I had heard it this way with Tiger
Woods, they says Tiger Woods.He's the best golfer in the world at
the time. Why? Why is he that? Why?He's not very good at his short game.
Nobody. He drives 2000 balls a day.Something like this. The stats were.
Yeah, well, what does he do with hisirons? Not much. He doesn't need to.

(29:35):
Because if he's good at drivingthe ball to the green and he's
good at putting you're strongand your strengths,
you're weak and your weakness. Right.So we can hire for our weakness.
Right.So let's work on our strengths.
And that's where it comes to sales.I don't have to be good at every
point of sale in that sale.I seem to be good at certain point.
Right.And have a team with me or behind

(29:56):
me or in front of me that I'mworking with to close that sale,
but I to bring it into why do peoplefail or what are they afraid of?
They don't have the right teamwith them. They can't do it.
So I think that's where wherepeople miss out.
They, they just don't understandwho's behind them or who's in
front of them, how the team works, it's we're competitive by nature,

(30:19):
right?So am I upset that jury's getting
something that I'm not getting?That's part of the problem, right?
Yeah, it's a mindset problem.It's a mindset.
What I want, what he has or whatever.Instead of going, well, he's good at
that and I'm good at this. Yeah.And then how can we bring things
together to to make it work?You know.
If, if we do a hockey analogy, people can say, well,
that guy scored the most goals,okay. But who passed him the puck.

(30:43):
. Right. Yeah.Why don't we look at business
the same way. Right.We have an entire team and and
you really win by how manyassists there is. Yeah. Right.
I read a study a while ago andthey were trying to study they
were kind of proving a point.But I think the point was well
proved in the study.So they, they interviewed like a

(31:04):
thousand bartenders or whatever.And then they said, okay,
these particular bars are verysuccessful and these ones are
average and these ones suck. Right.And then they interviewed the people,
all the different bartenders,and that they realized that the
ones that were the top successfulones had almost nothing in common
except that they were very, very,very strong in one category.

(31:27):
So this guy was a super good analystand he did all the statistics.
And you figure out the besttimes to sell certain products.
And he had to write sales and hehad to write and he drew people
in that way.The next guy was a life of the
party guy.So he everyone came to see him
because they loved him and he did thetrips and he did that and did that.
This other guy was a really goodleader.
So he built an amazing team ofpeople.
And so then it had a certain culture,and they basically went through

(31:50):
like of these 40 guys,there wasn't a single one that
did it the same as the other one.Perfect. They were spiky. Yeah.
So that's what they said is likethe best leaders.
And you go,You're Elon Musk's and you're like,
you're these Donald Trump's like,they're insanely good at this thing.
And they've got a lot ofweaknesses on the other side.
Yeah. But what do they do?They lean into there.

(32:10):
Yeah, but they're good at.Because if I.
If I'm really good at this,no one can compete with me there.
That's right.And so I create my own market. Yeah.
With the thing that I'm moreskilled at than anyone else.
And then I win. Right.And you know what that ties into
business development is so good,right?
Because that's the relationshipbuilding when I'm talking to you
and and say I'm, you know,attracting you to our business and

(32:32):
for whatever reason is if I can honein on that and without doing the
sell is show you who our team is andand why we work that way. Right.
Do I swim in my own lane all thetime? Absolutely not. Right.
I'm bad at that.I'm like, I'm, I'm I.
You're poking around.It's the only way to network.
Yeah. Network in your own lane.And that is how you do it. Right.

(32:54):
But it I think that's what makesit successful. Right.
Is just, is just being pliable.You know, being able to move,
being able to listen and alsoletting other people do what
they're supposed to be doing.And another thing in business
development, I find just talkingto other business developers.
Is sometimes I, I like I'm lookinglike a deer in headlights.

(33:17):
I, I'm listening to them and I'mlike, I don't. Do I sound like that?
I think I've said that before andand, you know, but the beauty of it
is it's enlightening because I'llnever say it again. Yeah, right.
I don't I don't need to worryabout the next time.
, I had a client this past weekhad, texted me and said,

(33:38):
I've been with him for a while.It's a real estate transaction,
taking about two years to selland get them to buy in their
retired couple.And and many times I thought,
maybe I'm getting fired.I'm not sure what's going on here.
This is difficult, and we got through all this,
sold their house, they rented,now they're buying.
And they sent me a text, and it hitme right in the heart, for real.

(34:01):
And they said, hey,thanks for sticking with us.
, sometimes it's been a roughride and this and that.
And I immediately replied, I said,it's not about the transaction, it's
more about we became friends, right?And then they sent me all these
huggy emojis and stuff. Yeah.And you know what?
To me,that's business development for sure.
It's right. It's the long game.And this I was just going to go

(34:21):
there with this.It's like I feel like when the more I
researched business development,the more I talk about business
development,the more I try to figure out what
that really ultimately looks like.It's not perfectly cohesive, but
it's networking and relationships.Yeah, right. Oh for sure is.
And to me, the, the,the most strange thing is my entire

(34:43):
career at this point, it's justlike you're putting the work in,
you're putting the work in,you're fine tuning, like I'm an
analyst personality, right?So I'm like tuning all the numbers
and tweaking and adjusting andmaking it a little better and
making it a little better, make ita little better. And it's grown.
And like I said, like off customerservice and word of mouth.
Our business has grown and grownand grown.
So when I go to do sales andbusiness development,

(35:03):
it feels it's the most foreign.Yeah, ridiculous feeling thing to go
out to a networking event to justcall another business owner and go,
hey, you want to go for lunch?Yeah, but it's been some of the most
valuable and most fulfilling rightthing for our business and for me.
And my personal growth is tonetwork with other business owners,

(35:24):
tell them what we do, learn whatthey do, have conversations and
just and then like meeting you,you've connected me with five
other really cool people becauseyou've come to we've come to know
what each other does and we likeeach other. We like our values.
Things connect. That makes sense.And you go,
do you know who you need to meet?And I, I don't know how,
but you know, every freakingperson in the world that I like.

(35:46):
Oh yeah. Calling arms. Yeah.I was just talking to him the
other day.I'm like a thousand people
talked to him the other day.Like,
how many people do you talk to today?But like in my, you know, coming
maturing as a business owner andmaturing into understanding the value
of business development, it feelsvery much like business development
is networking in relationship.Right. Well, and you know what?

(36:07):
I think we could use,our networking in our everyday lives,
right?It's who who's our friends,
who's our family,how we treat people, how we
react to how we're treated. Right?Like, really, what did they say?
Water off a duck's back or whatever.Right.
, I think I got the gift from mydad, because he was a pastor,

(36:27):
and they go through a lot ofdifferent things.
And over the years,but my wife always says, like,
does nothing bother you?And I'm like, you know what?
I'm. I don't think so, I do get bothered.
, but I'm able to get it out of mymind and say, you know. Process and.
Let it go. I process and let it go.And the quicker we can process it

(36:49):
and let it go, it's like doing areturn that's this is new.
It's just coming downloading tome right now.
It's like doing a return at a store.
Okay I brought it, I brought it back.They got this I didn't like it. Yeah.
You can have. They took it back.They gave me my money.
Now I move on it.That is such a good analogy because
a lot of people let, they're likewe're gonna feel a feeling we're
gonna have a thought or whatever.And it comes in and,

(37:11):
and this thought off it like it'sit comes out of nowhere and it's
our own insecurities or whatever.It's like, hey,
I should go talk to that guy.Okay, I'm gonna bother him.
Oh, he probably doesn't want todeal with me. Oh, I'm too small.
He's too big. He's into.Or what if he doesn't like all
these these little things come in.Yeah. And.
And then we let those things kindof latch on. Oh, absolutely.

(37:31):
They hook in, and now you're carryingall this weight of all this trash
when really when things come in,we need to captivate that thought
and go, yeah, that's not true.Right. Or I don't need that.
And then push, push it away andsay no to them so that they don't
pile on top of us. That's right.Well, and you know what?
I think if we can, take it backto like the term pioneer, those

(37:53):
people were pioneers of the industry.Why why is Colin and Jerry not
pioneers? Right?Why can't we be pioneers? Right.
So you take the truckingindustry and everything else
you're involved in and.Okay, well,
I'm going to pioneer this idea.I'm going to change the way HD
is done. Right.And I looked at it like the.
The funny thing is, theassociation that my business is in,

(38:16):
it's called NASCAR, and it's the, it's really not exciting.
It's the North American DuctCleaners Association and sexy.
But in the industry,it's it's it's the name everybody
wants to be associated with.And we're a big sponsor and
we're affiliated and and itactually enlightens me, right.

(38:38):
To be a part of it and to usethat acronym.
And it's on all the stuff we do, but in business development.
Right.I'm like, why don't we pioneer
something new, right?Why don't we do something new
and people will come to us?We're the leader in the industry.
So they're they're going to havetrust in what we're doing.
But it brings it back to we need tobe pioneers in business development.

(39:01):
Yeah, right.Because we're we're so easily
taught this is the way it was done.This is how they did it.
, if you think about like SharkTank or Dragon's Den, those guys
are on the panel because they didsomething. They did it differently.
They changed it, are they who they say they're
don't know, don't know them,but I watch and I'm like that.

(39:21):
That is ridiculous.Somebody is going to sell their
soul for, for, for not very muchbecause they didn't develop
their business. Yeah. Right.They sold to go on Shark Tank.
You're going that idea is is genius.Why are you needing to be here to
sell it on national televisionand lose your stake in it?
I know, I know,that's always kind of bothered me.

(39:42):
And and I bet you it's because now,next time I see one, because
there's they're transactional, right?It's sales versus business
development. Because if I.Like selling it to them. Right.
I like what you just said about, sometimes we don't want to
go talk to those people.We do want to talk to them.
We don't know how to talk to them.But if we can change our mindset
to I'm just going to talk to thembecause, Colin and Jerry are

(40:07):
the same people, right? Yeah.Like the conversation is going
to be what it is. Yeah, I love looking at people
that have gone from, you know,I want to say zero to hero,
but from from here to A to Z.And I'm like, well, if they can do
it for sure, I can do it. Yeah.Well, when you open the veil and
you see these like larger thanlife people are meet them.

(40:30):
The more people I meet that arelike super high that you would
put up on a pedestal and realize,like you're just a regular dude.
Well, and you know where the bestpart is and you've dealt with them.
, if we're sitting in anenvironment and I'll use like a
lender, a bank, that type of thingand business development very,
very quickly, will they be usingacronyms and things? Maybe.
Maybe I'm a simple person thatway and I don't quite understand.

(40:54):
, it backs it out to thelinguistics thing. Right.
They should be taking linguisticcourses and say, hey,
I'm dealing with this person.He understands business.
Maybe he's not schooled.I'm not educated that way.
Doesn't mean I'm not smart.It just means I didn't I didn't
follow that path.That's not the fabric I'm made up of.
, but they will treat youdifferently. They're not.

(41:15):
They call themselves businessrelationship managers, and they're
the furthest thing away from it is.What they mean is they want us
to borrow more money,but on their terms.
And they're going to they're goingto have this cryptic script.
They think it's so funny.But this I literally had a
conversation with the banker thismorning about this because, you know,
I will I'll do tons of businesswith one financial institution.

(41:38):
And then it's like Jekyll and Hyde.Yeah.
One day I call him up and hey,I want to do this.
And it's like, oh,and it's just the two weeks ago.
We're like hammering dealsthrough and things are going and
that's great.And then a sudden all we need way
more down or oh we can't do thatratio or oh there's excuses.
Yeah. Right.Because they and then they

(41:58):
changed the language.Like just what you're saying.
They don't just go.Actually I got a call from my
manager last week and,they were too leveraged in the
real estate portfolio.So they said we can't land on real
estate. They don't say that. Yeah.They say, well, you got to put
40% down. What we what changed?They shift. They don't say.

(42:18):
And then and then they turn this intothis kind of like scenario where.
And we're going off the trail. Yeah.But where it's like it's your fault.
Yeah.And then and then a lot of guys
will just go, oh yeah.And then they'll back out and
they'll go,I guess the deal's not being done.
Instead of calling ten banks andrealizing that these two over
here are now under leveraged inthe real estate. That's right.

(42:41):
And they want to do deals. Yeah.It has nothing to do with you.
But yeah, we take it personallyand let it affect how we continue
to move forward and develop.Another thing I wanted to bring up,
which I like, it's again in thelast year especially,
I really pushed myself hard inthis way to try and like,
you know, come Phoenix from theashes kind of a thing and just go,

(43:02):
I'm gonna become good at networkingand business development.
I know I'm not good at it.I'm just going to I know what I
need to do, and I'm just goingto force myself to do it.
And one of the things that I've.Learned is and it's just kind of this
natural entrepreneurial mindset isthat my competitors are my enemy,
right?I'm not going to talk to him or

(43:22):
I'm threatened by him,or he's threatened by me,
or we're not friends or justnaturally, that's the verbiage.
And that's just all industrieseverywhere.
If we're in competition,where enemies. Yeah.
And the best thing I've done isjust reach out. Yeah.
To hey, I'd love to have coffee.Hey, I'd love to meet because
I'm a super likable guy. Yeah.I'm not worried that they're not
going to get along.I don't need anything from them.

(43:46):
But just having a conversationand breaking that barrier down
has opened so many doors.And I've heard you talk about
this too, or just showing up andand it's not that we don't
appreciate the competition.And it like having an enemy drives
a lot of people to like go harderand be better. And that's good too.
But these other entrepreneursare not your enemies.
They're your best assets.If you'll just go out and break

(44:08):
the ice with them and make friendsbecause we all need partners,
there's a lot of lonely people at thetop that have siloed themselves in
because they won't go out and work.I've been that guy many times, right?
And so just going out,even going out for lunch with you,
it was like one of those things like,you know, what I call on those?
A bunch of people I know, they allspeak very highly, highly of him.
I think there's a lot of thingsthat I could learn from him.

(44:30):
I'm interested in what he's doing.Just ask him for lunch. Yeah, right.
Well, I think when we win like that,and that goes the same for you,
right?For me, I feel the same way is,
, when we're not,we're not going to get. Yeah, right.
Because I'm not I'm not going toget something from somebody.
I'm not I'm not doing sometrickery or something.

(44:51):
How can I get something from thisperson? Like, I don't want to go.
In completely neutral. Yeah.I don't I don't actually need
anything from Evans HD,but when I hear about it, I'm going
to be the biggest cheerleader.And I'm interested, right?
I'm interested. I'm just like.That's the thing.
I'm just genuinely interested inwhat you're doing. You know what?
, it brings me to to think,and John Maxwell said it years ago.

(45:14):
I took a John Maxwell course backwhen there was actually CDs.
That's how long ago that was.He was he was even so good back then.
And, and and he had said, youknow, you really need to sit there
and when you're driving your car,whatever you're doing is listen to
a total different genre of music.And so I had,
started listening to jazz music,classical music, and some of it I

(45:38):
liked, some of it I didn't like.But in the end,
I took a new appreciation for,hey, Jerry likes classical music.
This is why what makes him tick,right?
And I got to learn a lot aboutdifferent people.
So it brings me to this.When I sponsor the business
development podcast for,Kelly and and with his, he said,
where do you want me to put the hypervac ad on which which, podcast?

(46:02):
And I said, the ones that are sofar away from what we do,
and he's like, what do you mean?I said,
I don't I don't care what it is.Maybe it's like outer space or you're
talking to some guy that I don'teven know understand what he does.
I said, I don't want it to be inmanufacturing.
I don't want it to be anindustry like that.
And he's like, well,explain more to me.

(46:22):
And I said, because all thepeople that that's their sound,
they're going to listen to the BDC orwhoever it is that he has a guest on.
There are going to be introducedto my business. Yeah.
Completely different. Interesting.And they may never need that.
But guess what?Everybody knows somebody that knows
somebody that knows somebody.And that's what I call networking.

(46:44):
Right?Like let's say we we got invited to,
,lunch and we were all in transport.
I'd be pretty fun. Lunch? Yeah.It's funny, like,
you can commiserate, but youdon't really learn a whole lot.
And. Well, you know, there's a.Time and a place.
I could say, you know who would?You'll give up some secrets.
I know you would. Right.Here's my trade secrets.

(47:05):
This is what makes us successful.This is our source.
You're not afraid of it, becauseguess what? You can steal it from me.
You're not me. That's right.But if we're if we're all in the
same, if we're all hockeyplayers and all we do is hang
out with hockey players,it probably get pretty dull. Yeah.
You can only get so much better.Like yeah you're not going to grow to
learn and be good in your industry.But like the real growth is the

(47:27):
horizons of the things that you'venever seen before. Absolutely right.
That's what breaks your mind.Like I've gone to some big higher
end business networking eventsand talked to guys that are doing
like just wildly different thingsand learned like some crazy,
really good strategies or thoughtsor just things out of left field
that I would have never beenexposed to otherwise. Right?

(47:48):
And so, like, even on that,what do you think separates okay.
Because that's all businessdevelopment.
These guys say a guy does $1billion in business.
He did it through businessdevelopment. Yeah.
What how does their brain tickdifferently? Yeah.
I think well, for me, just again,having spent more time in the last

(48:12):
year, the reality of and I thinkthis can be applied to anything,
it's a rule that I kind of use isthat you need to stack up some wins,
like do something and stack up afew wins, right? Yeah.
The first three guys I reached outto, I knew they would go for lunch
with me, and I knew it would probablybe okay. It was an easy thing.
And then I stacked up.So do you know what?

(48:32):
Those conversations were?Really great conversations.
Yeah, it was worth doing it.I proved the model of myself a little
bit, and then I tried someone who.Well, we'll see if if they'll
actually take my lunch thing.Lunch invite? Yeah.
You know, because you said,well, they're pretty big deal
and I don't know, whatever.But the right people,
the guys you actually want to havelunch with love doing that, right?

(48:52):
That's what I discovered, whichgave me more confidence to ask more
people for lunches and just, hey,I'm just trying to network and reach
out to other people and learn things.Then I can,
share my experiences and stuff.I just got some questions for you.
I'd love it if I could buy a lunch.Right?
And if you got no value to bring in,you have no context with this person
and you're cold reaching out to them.Okay, well, then, you know,

(49:13):
maybe you're not going to doreally great hits on that.
And that goes right back to are youtrying to meet with them to get
something from them 100%. Right.So so I've got a friend who was
in Whitefish years ago,and I guess the NFL books,
the Whitefish Lake Lodge for aweek or something like this for
award ceremony and whatnot.And so Jerry rice was there.
I'm not a big football follower,but he was a football player.

(49:37):
Yeah. Heard the name. Yeah.And anyway, so this friend of mine
and he was probably 55 at the time,I guess they said, sorry, sir,
, NFL is booked at or whatever.And he's like, oh who's that?
And they said, well that's Jerryrice. He's a football. Great.
Whatever. Okay.And he just keeps walking and he
walks up and he says, hi,I'm Wes, and he's like, hi, I'm

(50:00):
Jerry rice. Oh, pleased to meet you.And just stands there.
Next thing you know,they had a beer together,
sat down, had something to eat.And he goes,
I'm still friends with him.And I'm like, hey,
it takes some kahuna to do that.Yeah, but it shouldn't.
He's just a human, right?He's just. And we all are. Right.
And and if you bring it back tonetworking okay.

(50:20):
So, so this guy has built upthis conglomerate or he's
because we're business minds.Right. That's the way we think.
Well, he must be doing somethingdifferent. No.
Maybe he just did more of it. Right.It didn't mean he was better at it.
Maybe he just stuck to it.Maybe he failed more.
Well, maybe he's just started.Maybe because that's the right.
Like when it comes to businessdevelopment and networking,

(50:41):
most people just don't start becauseit's too intimidating or it's
too hard, or they do it once andthey get shut down and they get
that rejection that first time,and then they just quit. Yeah, right.
Like you have to do like sales andbusiness development requires a
thick skin and a right mindset.And if you don't have those things,
you've got to like you have tocultivate them somehow.
Which is why I go to that winscenario, is because it helps us

(51:03):
build up some momentum by givingourselves a few easy wins.
I've heard the other side of theargument where you should just
tackle the hardest thing first too,but like you stack loses up and
then it gets harder and harderto win sometimes as well.
So there's there's a couplemindsets on that, but.
I think that we have to justappreciate that,
like the fear of rejection, the,the internal dialogues that

(51:24):
aren't right, the just nevergetting started excuses aspect,
that's what stops most people.It's not that the guy that actually
went out and did it in one that wasanything special. They just started.
Did they feel like rejection?Yeah they did. They got over it.
They kept going well and youknow what?
It goes back to, you know,grade one right.

(51:45):
And and I know this is my personalitytype and sometimes people don't
like it is if you failed yourtest in grade one and your your
teacher told you you're stupid,it's okay. Move on. Yeah, right.
Like I like to use I text people alot of times, like they'll send me
this big long story and whatever,and I'm like, hashtag next. Yeah.

(52:06):
What does that mean next? Yeah.Got it, got it on. Next. Move on.
Why are you why are youcontemplating anything? Yeah, right.
Or you didn't make the team. Right.Hashtag next. Like, seriously?
Oh, I failed at that.I didn't I didn't sell that
person a house.They bought it from someone else.
Okay. Next. Yeah. One more rep.Right.

(52:28):
And and and they always say onyour deathbed, what are you
going to be thinking about?A lot of people would be thinking
about that same deal, right.Because that's where their
mindset is. Yeah, right.But how do we keep people or train
people to not think that way? Right.How do you develop a mindset
like like is that possible?I don't I don't know I know I

(52:48):
can develop my own. Well there.The reality is there's so few
entrepreneurs in the world like,right.
There's lots of businesses andthere's so few people at the top
that are really growing somethingbig and really moving it ahead.
There's lots of small businessesthat stay small and do things
like of the whatever, 10 million.100 million businesses that are
in North America, I can I don'teven know what the number is at

(53:10):
this point. Billion, probably, there's there's less than 1%
of those that are, I think I can'tremember the statistics, like one 1%
or 4% is over a million. I just read.The stats this week and I actually
said, my business partner John,I said, you got to see this.
Like, this is so ridiculouslysmall that I had no idea.

(53:31):
It's shocking. It's shocking.It's like, oh, there's 100
million businesses and 1% of themwill ever break $1 million. Yes.
Less than 1%. It was 0.01%. Yeah.And then and then you take that
and you go, okay,of these 100 million businesses,
, 4% are going to survive tenyears or something like that. Yeah.
It was like X amount in one year,three year, five year,

(53:52):
but more fail after ten years thanthey do after one year. Yeah.
Like the spread was ridiculous. Yeah.This like when you get and I
love statistics and so then itgets you all riled up.
But it's like there's actually solike to build the business up to
a million is is no small feat.The reason that so many fail and
never get there is because thatis actually way 0 to 1 million is

(54:12):
infinitely harder than 1 millionto 10 million in my mind. Right?
That first bit.It's all the hard lessons.
It's all the times that aregoing to take you out.
It's all the days that you wantto quit the time horizon.
They're not getting paid the thelike.
All the horrific trauma that everyentrepreneur goes through was in
that phase typically. Well, right.But then there's just so few.
But I'm getting to that. Make it.And so when we say things like

(54:35):
you just got to get over therejection and you got to do this,
you got to network.No one's doing it like nobody is
doing it.And that's why it's like it
shouldn't be profound.And it doesn't seem profound to you.
And I really at this point. Yeah.But it kind of is what? You're right.
Because I have another friend slashclient, very, very educated.
Like, like like he's a,he's just this walking brain.

(54:58):
Right, very cool guy.Fun to be around,
except when he talks about hiswork because I just, I it's fun,
but I don't understand it. Yeah, so we just did a real estate
transaction, sold this house,he bought another one,
and he had a lot of questions.He's a scientist, so he asks a lot of
questions, and I answer everyonegot him answers for everything.
And he says, dude, dude, dude,you were amazing.

(55:24):
Oh, my God, I just did what I do.Yep. Yeah, but you're different.
Like like like you just get it done.And I was.
Like, that's what's special.I'm like done. Oh like that.
So it makes me. Special, actually.I did what you would.
You really hired me to do. Yeah, but then I went home, and it's
exactly what you just said, right?I'm not special. I just I'm I'm.

(55:49):
I guess I'm convicted, and I goafter it, and I and I want to get
things done. Not much will stop me.That shouldn't be. Special.
It's not special. It shouldn't be.Right. But it actually is, though.
That's the thing that's sickeningabout it, is that you go out and
you just do what you expect thatyou ought any person ought to do,
but they're just no one else isdoing it right.
And, and I think people how do Ihow do I tie this in?

(56:14):
, we live in a world ofincentivizing people, right.
If here's what you do,if you do this, you get this.
If you do this, you get this right.And I remember we used to pay safety
bonuses to drivers back in the day.Yeah. And we would budget for it.
Right.And if they didn't get it they
didn't get it.And then I got a new boss and he said

(56:35):
what are all these safety bonuses.Why are we budgeting for this.
I said, well, if this driverdoesn't get an accident,
he gets a safety bonus. What?We hired them to not get in an
accident. That's a pay to play.I was like, whoa, oh.
How is this new to me? It's true.We have these conversations

(56:56):
occasionally here too,where it's like, okay, well,
if they do this, we should do this.I'm like, if they don't do that,
I'm going to fire them. Right.We're incentivizing them to come
to work. Yeah. And to show.Up on time every day.
We should give them their paycheck.And but it really changed the way
I thought about a lot of things. Right.
Like you even you know ifthere's multiples.

(57:18):
Well that's why you're right.You're right.
And I don't think about it enough.There's not very many entrepreneurs
because an entrepreneur says wellI'm just going to go get it.
They're not looking like like ohmy paychecks next Thursday or,
or this is what's going to happen.I look at it by by deals, I look at
it by months. I look at it by years.The long lasting entrepreneurs,

(57:38):
one of the the things that'sdifferent about them is that you
just don't quit, right.That is the biggest. Yeah.
Skill set of any entrepreneur isthe entrepreneur.
If I could say the word is thatthey just they just didn't quit.
Right. Because we all had to fail.Yeah. We all had setbacks. Yeah.
Many of the biggest and bestentrepreneurs in the world had

(58:00):
bankruptcies fail. Yeah.Half a dozen failed businesses
before they ever actually hadtheir big success.
Yeah,they've been through all the crap
that everyone else has been through.They weren't there wasn't
anything different about thetrajectory necessarily.
It's that they just didn't quitwhen it was hard.
They kept going,can I I gotta tell you a story?
So when I, when I got fired fromthe public company,

(58:20):
after almost 18 years, I walked inand I'm like, oh, this is the day I
saw some cars in the parking lot.And I'm like, oh, they're in the
boardroom. Okay. I walked by and I.I'd known it was coming, that these
companies aren't tricky, right?Things happen like 400 people a
week were getting fired, but I knew my day would come

(58:43):
one day and I walked in.I sat down and I said,
today's the day.And the guy who was my boss said,
yeah, here's your letter.And he said,
this is probably the best thingthat's ever going to happen to you.
I was in and out in like fourminutes. And, and you know what?
He was right.It was the best thing that ever

(59:04):
happened to me. But so.So I went home and I didn't tell
my wife.I let her finish her day at work
because she's not me, right? Yeah.And so I said, yeah, I got fired
today, and she's she was like,what? I said I got fired.
It's so good. I feel great.And and long story short,
a few months later I phoned mybanker and I said, hey,

(59:30):
I need some money. For what?I said, I'm going to buy this house.
How much you need? All all of it.All of it? Yeah, all of it.
What about your existing house?It's not for sale.
And I don't have a job.And he said, yeah, no problem.
We'll give it to you. Right.And and I think it's,

(59:50):
it's these I shouldn't call itweird little things, right.
Everything builds up to that.But it's that type of thing.
And me even thinking I couldphone and ask for it. Did to me.
Like, I'm still like, you don't haveto tell me how you pulled that off,
because I don't know anyone else.And I got it.
And, and and it worked.He believed in me. Yeah, right.

(01:00:10):
You said,how long do you need the money for?
I'm like,as long as it's going to take.
And. And it was interest only.It was fantastic.
Yeah, it worked out right.It worked out.
But some could say that couldcreate something really crazy,
which maybe it did.It's just a new belief system, right?
It's like, okay, I'm going to askI'm going to ask I'm going to ask.

(01:00:31):
I'm going to get fired.And I can't fire myself now.
I guess I could,it just puts me in another.
I could have taken a different path.I could have got fired,
went home, been upset, I mean,
not to say I didn't have differentthoughts over all those years, right?
It could have set me back 18 years.And I could have been that guy

(01:00:51):
for the rest of my life.No, I think it's when he said,
this is you're going to findthis is going to be the best
thing that ever happened to you,right? And guess what?
He's still working there. Yeah.That's so funny. Right.
And you look at where you're atnow and we're yeah we're then
and and the process that it wentthrough and I always go to the
spiritual side of that too, is thatGod has a plan for everything.
And when we trust that he's gotour good in mind, that we can

(01:01:13):
take a lot more things in stride,knowing that there's better things
coming or something different.And this has purpose in it, and it's
just that I don't yet understand it.Yeah, having that mindset helps
us walk that path a lot moregracefully than than other people
who are carrying that entire weighton their own back. That's right.
And do you think on that vein that, we know God has a plan?

(01:01:34):
We know good things happen.Bad things happen to good people.
It's how we deal with them.Doesn't mean we ignore them.
Right. Or how do you feel on that?Like people.
Well,you just ignore what's happening.
I don't I can accept some things.Yeah, I wish I could quote the verse,
but basically the verses is that allthings happen for our good, right?
And if you can have faith in,in that, that is the honest to

(01:01:56):
goodness truth. Yeah.You can you just go I just don't
get understand why it is.Let's just why I said the other
thing I think that we do wrongfrom spiritual side of things is
a mindset thing.Shift again is that we think that
every time something happens to us,right, that it's about us.
Right? Right.The ripple effect is my and my dad

(01:02:17):
talked to us about this all thetime when we were kids is like,
God uses a ripple effect. Yeah.And he said, when something
happens to you, it might be thathe did something to someone else.
And the ripple ended up bouncing offyou or something happened to you.
And it's the worst thing in the worldto you, but it's the best thing in
the world to someone else over here.Or you can handle that issue,
right? Better than this guy.And so he gave it to you.

(01:02:38):
That's right. Right.And so there's all these
different reasons,and his ways are not our ways.
And his thoughts are not ourthoughts. Right.
And so to think that we aregoing to understand everything
and that the world revolvesaround us is just pure,
narcissism and insanity, right?There's a billions of people on this
planet and a lot of other thingsthat go on that are bigger and more

(01:02:59):
important and sometimes small andless important, but really important
to some other aspect of things.And we need to be okay with that.
Yeah. Because we're not God.That's right.
Well, and you know what?Even on that, like I know I think we
talked about if, if, if everythingwe had right now materially was
taken away from me today.I would probably I would hope you'd

(01:03:20):
say, hey Colin, that's probably thebest thing that ever happened to you.
You'll say yeah. Realistically.But realistically it's a mindset
though, what you just said. Right.I'm going to get up tomorrow and I'm
going to say this is an opportunity.This is an opportunity to to do
it different, to do it over,to do it however. Right.
, and this is totally notbusiness development.
Yeah, but but it is. Right.Because it does build that mindset

(01:03:43):
and it does build resilience andit does build the ability to
just keep on going. Yeah.And I think so kind of to wrap this
up because we're talking aboutbusiness development and sales,
is I think that like I was tryingto go, okay, well what what is it
that a person needs to do to dobusiness development? Right, right.

(01:04:04):
And to me, it's like you just said,this is an opportunity.
Business development is steppinginto all these different arenas and
different places and and showingup in new places and going,
where's the opportunity? Yeah.Well, and you know what?
, that's that's what it is.I, I had a really good thing happen.
, just somebody that I'm mentoring.He's very young.

(01:04:26):
, and I got him into traction.Said, hey, with the business
that he's managing, he's 21,he's managing a decent business.
And last night he came to me at thehockey game and he said, I've got
this really good success story totell you. And I said, oh, tell me.
And he said, well,I was at this part in traction.
And the government just did thisthing at the registry.
And there's an opportunity, and thiswould seem small to some people.

(01:04:48):
, to me,it was monumental that he caught the
whole aspect of what's happening.He said, we can bail out $8 more
per transaction for to thegovernment for every senior that
does something at our business.And I said,
what does that result to financially?And he said, it's amazing.
It's like $1,200 a week inincreased revenue.

(01:05:09):
And we doesn't cost us one morepenny to do it.
He got that at 21 years old. Right.
Some people say oh that's nothing.Yeah.
No that's something that's a big sum.Well it's a compound factor.
If he can catch that thingwhat's next.
Well and you know,you had told me a story a while back
about a significant sum of moneythat you were, you found that you

(01:05:32):
were able to save every month,right, and put forward like I think
for him that develops a mindset.That, hey, I put a system in place.
It worked immediately.And like you said, now exponentially.
What's that going to turn into?Yeah, right. And it's a it's a win.
Like it's even a small win likethat is it proves the model right.

(01:05:52):
It's like there are things to bedeveloped. Yeah.
There are ways to make this better.There are more opportunities
like it's abundance mindset aswell as like they're infinite.
And this I was going to go into thiswhen I was talking about how our
competitors are enemies or otherentrepreneurs or enemies is like, you
need to get into an abundance mindsetwhere there is enough for everybody.

(01:06:13):
Yeah, and there is infiniteopportunity in business development
to be had. There's no end to it.That's right. Right.
And so it's just a matter of likewhen you put your mind on that,
then the world's your oyster.Like everywhere you go you see
opportunity when you're lookingfor it.
And when your mindset says that it'severywhere. It is everywhere. Yeah.
And you can start seeing it andcalculating it in.
And then it actually doesn'tbecome a matter of, oh, I just

(01:06:36):
wish I had an opportunity, right?It becomes a matter of I shouldn't
do all of these opportunitiesbecause this opportunity aligns
with my mission and my vision.That's right. Right. Yeah.
And you start selecting youropportunities instead of just
grabbing at whatever you said.And you know, and you're comfortable
not chasing right after that.My dad always taught me to.
And it goes along.That is chase two rabbits.

(01:06:57):
They both get away. Right.That's a good one.
And and and it really it cuts deepbecause what do we do is that's the
MLM or the or the whatever we want.If I could just do this here, I'm,
I'm going to be getting that.If I could just do one more. Right.
But I'm not paying attention to this.You're chasing two rabbits, right?
They're both going to get away.You'll probably end up somewhere
in the middle and not happy.Yeah, but so true.

(01:07:21):
I I've had to learn that one.A few times.
Well, me too, right? Yeah.Because things things are shiny.
They look good, even in in networking,
you hear things, right? Peer groups, sphere groups. Right.
, and you're like,you're you're drawn to. Whoa.
How's that happening for that person?And you hear some big numbers

(01:07:42):
and they roll and they roll.And you know, I, I'm a big advocate,
advocate for going back and saying,I let's see, in three months,
let's see what's going on there.Right? Yeah. Give it a little.
Time to. More than meets the eye.But I also don't want to judge
because if what if that is thetheir lot in life.
What if that is how they,how they operate.
What if it is working that wayfor them. Yeah. Good.

(01:08:03):
Well, the other thing I've hadto learn to and I'm still not
good at it because I'm like,I got the grabby hands that want
to take every opportunity,but it's like just because you missed
an opportunity and someone elsetook it and they did well with it,
right? Isn't a bad thing.It's okay for other people to
take on opportunities and havesuccess with them.
You don't isn't always need tobe you, right?

(01:08:24):
Like it's it's good to see otherpeople succeed.
It's good to give other people ahand up and just put value out
there anyway.And so like to the new, the newer
business owner or the personthat's listening to this podcast,
the value that we're looking foryou to get the takeaway. Yeah, of.
This particular topic is when itcomes to sales,
I think to summarize it and youcan agree or disagree on this,

(01:08:46):
is that you're selling yourself.Yeah, it's a relational thing.
It's not a transactional thing.So when you're doing sales,
make sure you're selling yourself,your vision, your mission,
your reputation and all those things.Obviously you have to have a
good product first.We're assuming that you've got
your product in your service,that you believe in.
What you're selling, and.You're selling something that has
value and that you believe in.But when it comes to the actual

(01:09:09):
sale or doing sales,you got to sell yourself first.
You got to build a relationshipand you got to build trust with
your customer.And then you have to provide
value to them, right?When we go to business development,
what you need to do if you're a newinto business or you're learning,
is that you need to to reach outto people,
you need to make relationships.You need to network,
you need to see opportunities,and you need to pick the right ones

(01:09:30):
right. And and create awareness.Like get out there essentially.
Yeah. Right. Yeah.Anything to add to that? No.
The only thing I'll add to that is,is you need to be known and you need
to have a reputation. Yeah, right.Your reputation will either be
positive or negative.There's no in-between. Yeah.
Right. Oh I agree. When.Like I've been 18 and a bit years now

(01:09:52):
in business and mostly in truckingbut in other businesses as well.
And nothing took our business offlike our reputation becoming known.
Right.Like when people knew that Evan's
name and what we stood for andhow we do business, that's when
employees start just showing upand wanting to work for you.
That's when customers arehearing about you and and just

(01:10:13):
showing up at your front door.That's sales and business development
get a lot easier when you have agood reputation. That's right.
Well, and you know what?How does it say you, you get one
chance to make a first impression?Yeah, right. So make it.
And that's that's businessdevelopment as a whole.
Absolutely. Cool.Well, well,
I think we'll wrap it on that, thank you so much, Colin,
for coming out and sharing someof your wisdom with us.

(01:10:35):
And I sure always enjoy havingconversation. Yeah.
If you're listening, we appreciateyou taking the time to join us and
and learn from our experience,whatever we could dig out there.
, if this adds value to you,I'd really appreciate it if
you'd share it, if you'd rate us or, send
a review that's much appreciated.And, I just hope that you're

(01:10:57):
learning a lot from this and gettinggetting the value that we're we're
hoping to add to you. Perfect. Yeah.Have a good one. Thanks, guys.