August 8, 2023 • 30 mins
Where Pastor Eric answers questions about the husband's role in marriage according to the Scripture. He is joined by Zachariah who is currently engaged to Christy and working through premarriage counseling. As part of his homework, he is required to ask another husband about how to be a godly husband. So, we decided to make a podcast about it.
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(00:00):
all right, welcome back to our FaithCastpodcast, where we're discussing
all things theological, practical.
This is a ministry of FaithBaptist Church here in Visalia.
And this is the second installment ofour podcast, so it's good to be here.
(00:26):
I really enjoy doing this.
I had a great conversationwith Shiloh last time.
By the way, this music thatwe intro with is not the music
that we are planning on doing.
So if you have suggestions onwhat we should do, let me know.
I still haven't had time toput some thought into it.
Anyway my name is Eric Northic.
(00:46):
I am one of the pastors here at FaithBaptist Church, and today I have another
one of my sons, Zach with us, or he,he he and his fiance Christie, are
planning on getting married in October.
And as they go through pre-marriagecounseling, one of their.
(01:08):
Requirements is to interviewanother husband, or Zach's job,
Zach has to interview someone.
So I thought, well, why don't we seeif we can make this into a podcast.
We'll see how this goes.
It might be a disaster,but we'll give it a try.
So anyway, Zach, welcome.
Oh, thank you.
How many, how many days, how manyhours, how many minutes do you have?
About 70 days, 14 hours, 10 minutes,and 31 seconds and 12 milliseconds.
(01:33):
Did you just make that up?
Yeah, I just made all that up on the spot.
Okay I don't think Christy is willcome through, but I'll bet she knows.
She's sitting right next to Zach.
Do you know Christy?
68 days.
68 days?
68 days.
Huh?
Nine weeks and six days.
Nine weeks and six days.
Well, that's exciting.
(01:54):
All right.
And so Zach has the task of becominga prepared godly husband by then.
So he's wanting to glean from his dad.
And so he's hopefully getssome good advice here.
We'll, we'll see.
It's, it's, you know,being a godly husband.
It is a lot of work and itrequires dying to what is natural.
(02:15):
It definitely doesn't come natural.
So I think you're, you'restarting to figure some of
this out as you've been dating.
Is that right?
Yeah, some of it.
I mean, there's times where it'sbeen stumbling and, you know, maybe
fallen into the mud a couple times.
But after a while you get the hang of itand then you realize you don't really know
anything at all in a couple more weeks.
(02:36):
No, it really is a, justa progress of learning.
And...
Taking the time to listen, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well let's go ahead and, and, andlaunch into your questions and
see how far we can get with this.
So, go ahead and hitme with the first one.
Alright, so the first questionis, what are a godly husband's
responsibilities to his wife?
(02:57):
Well, I, I think back to mypre marriage counseling and
where, where I first heard this.
Described, and a godly husband isa leader, a lover, and a learner.
He's a leader, a lover, and a learner.
He, he must lead.
(03:17):
He sets the tone in the home spiritually.
He sets the the direction of the home.
And so he's leading.
He, he doesn't lead from behind.
He leads from the front.
He, he takes the shots.
He, he's seeking what is bestfor his wife and for his kids.
(03:39):
And and he's making sure thatas he leads he is he is being
faithful in that, in that leading.
According to scripture.
And there's a lot of examples of this.
. And there's, there's some great books.
Like MacArthur's got a book onleadership, I think is really helpful.
Hmm.
There, there's some greatprinciples for leadership that
(04:00):
apply to that part of being a man.
And one of the things I think thatyoung men mistake for leadership is when
they is when, when, when they, they saythings like, well, Since I'm, since I'm
the man of the home and I'm supposedto lead, you have to do what I say.
(04:21):
And that's where the secondpart of, you know, that leader,
lover, learner comes in.
You have to be a lover.
This is not about you.
It's not about what you want, howyou want it, when you want it.
And so think Philippians 2, right?
Think, think of Christ.
You know, think of the examplein John 13 where he gets down.
And he takes on the form of a slave.
(04:43):
That, that's really whatthis kind of leadership is.
It is to set the, the tone oflove or, or to love your wife.
And that's exactly what is commanded.
Husbands, love your wives justas Christ also loved the church
and gave himself up for her.
It was self sacrificing.
It's interesting.
Before that it says in Ephesians5, 22, wives be subject to your
(05:05):
own husbands as to the Lord.
. And so the wives are to be submissiveto their husbands, but the husbands are
to lead in such a way that their wiveswould desire to to submit there, there
should be a Christ-like kind of lovinggoing on where the wife feels protected
(05:27):
and cared for, that her Her desires arebeing considered as the husband leads.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think that makes sense Andthen you have learner leader lover
learner You're never going to know howto lead or to love your wife by nature
(05:50):
You were born by nature knowing how tolove yourself We, we all were, right?
This is, this is, this issomething that, you know, I think
you've heard a lot in the home.
Right.
Our, our, our sinful tendency,our self, selfish tendencies.
And so, you've got to learn howto love her, and so, which means
you've got to learn about her.
(06:12):
Like my, my wife is very unique inthe way that God made her, and it's
beautiful in the way that He made her.
Even, even the oddities, likespilling ink, as Christy just
did on the, on the table here.
You know, there's different ways thatthat, you know, different ways that
God made Christy and your mother.
And so you've got to learn how.
(06:32):
So like if, if, if if you find yourselfon a, on a camping trip and she wants
to have a photo taken and you wantto chop wood, well, it's, you know.
It's because of, of, of the way thatshe's created, that she wants, you
know, to take in the scenery and,and, and, and take the picture.
I say that because we went camping thisweekend and that, that that actually came
up, which was a great learning opportunityin the way that the two of you think.
(06:55):
Right?
Yeah.
Did you learn something from that?
Yeah, I, I learned a couple things.
One, you know, you justgotta die to yourself.
Yeah.
You know, why not take the picture?
And then the other is...
I learned that being in a pastor'sfamily is like the Miranda Rites.
Anything you say, Canon, willbe used against you in court.
You know, you, you maybe turned intoa sermon analogy, . But in reality,
it's very useful because you learnhow to respond better the next time.
(07:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's true.
You, you learn.
You learn.
Okay.
So what's your next question?
I mean, if, is that satisfying there?
Yeah, I think that's satisfying.
Leader, learner, lover orleader, learner, leader, lover.
It flows off the tongue.
Leader, love learner, better like that.
I don't, I don't know why.
Huh.
But anyway, yeah.
So the next question is, what doesthe Bible mean when describing
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the man as the head of the home?
Well, that goes back into whatwe've already talked about, Psalm.
He's, again, he's the onewho will be held accountable.
So, go to Ephesians 5 and you see thisthe husband, husbands love your wife,
verse 25, just as Christ also lovedthe church and gave himself up for her,
that, so that he might sanctify her.
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Jesus came remember he's, in John13, he's washing the disciples feet.
And he says, he's alreadymade them clean, right?
And now he's, in asense, he's sanctifying.
So he's taking on the formof a servant or slave.
And he's doing what is necessaryto to, to sanctify them.
And in this way, the husbandfollows that example.
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What is it that your wife needs?
And I think this is where a lot ofmen fall prey to to the The, this
idea that you know, can just sortof make decisions and go with it.
But the whole goal is that hiswife, I mean, he's going to
present her before Christ one day.
(08:46):
He's going to give an account.
Yeah.
And and, and, and there's this desirefor joy in that day when you give an
account for your wife, where, where,where you can say, well, with Jesus,
look at her, look how beautiful she is.
Right?
Look at how she is grownin grace and knowledge.
And it will, it will, it will, it willbe this moment of exuberance because
(09:10):
because you will have, you know, ifyou've led her well, you have given
your life to watch it, to help her.
Yeah.
Grow, which means you need tobe ahead of the game, right?
Right.
You need to be you needyou need to be work.
You know, some people say why marriedout of my league I'm married up.
Well, then you've got more work to doYou you better catch up buddy, right?
(09:30):
Because you've got to lead the wayin this There's just no excuses.
Yeah, you got to find away to step out in front.
That's right You got to be infront you got to take the shots.
You got to be seeking that she youknow her her her sanctification then
he might present her to himself, tothe church in all her glory, having no
spot or wrinkle or any such thing, sothat she would be holy and blameless.
(09:52):
There's the goal right there.
You know, it's such a beautiful thing.
Alright, what you got next?
The next question is, what is involvedin being the manager of the home?
I think that this depends on, onthat learner part of, of your wife.
Some, some women have natural tendenciestoward one way or the other in the home.
(10:15):
I think the husband needs to be awareof what is going on in the home.
And he needs to be assured that thingsare operating according to the scripture.
So, what is the instructionfor for, for the home?
You know, Titus 2.
You know, the older woman instructingthe younger woman, and then, and then
you have the young man at the end ofthat list there in the household co code.
And so the goal is to have childrenwho are, who are walking in obedience.
(10:40):
And this, this comes outin, in, in different ways.
I mean, it, it could be you know in, inthe way that they're you know, managing
themselves what, whatever it is, the,the end goal is that you are raising up.
Children who are being nourishedand admonished in the Lord.
And and I think that as a man, you, youknow, you need to be aware of the end
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goal and aware of what needs to happen.
And then you provide the helpso that you're, so, so that
whatever your wife needs.
Because you can't, you know,ideally, and, and I think biblically
ideally the man is is out.
You know, like Adam, he's a gardener.
The wife is a helper.
Ideally.
The wife is managing in the home andhelping and, and raising those children.
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But but I think as a, as a man, likeagain, you're accountable to it,
to, to, for, for all this stuff.
So you, you need to you just,you need to equip your wife.
And and you need to fill in whatevergaps that are, that are there.
But, but, but I think the bottomline is, you know, knowledge.
Knowing what's going on.
Being aware.
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And, and making sure the detailsare, are, are taken care of.
And it just, it just variesdepending on, on the home makeup.
Like in our home, you know, we haveseven boys, and there's, there's a
different makeup in our home thansomebody with only a couple kids.
So.
That's what you got next?
How can you know andfulfill your wife's needs?
(12:06):
Learn.
Yeah.
Learn.
I see a pattern coming.
Ask her questions.
That's right, learn.
So far we haven't left off ofleader, lover, learner, have we?
Yeah.
You gotta learn.
You gotta find out who she, how she ticks.
Who she is.
You know, take her out on dates.
Ask her questions.
I can already hear my wifein the back of my head.
(12:27):
Yeah, why don't you do that more?
Yeah, you know, we allneed to do this more.
We need to, we need to spendtime getting to know our wives.
And if we're really interested in helpingher grow in grace and knowledge and
becoming blameless with no spot or wrinkleor any such thing, then Then we're going
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to be, we're going to be keenly interestedin finding out what her needs are.
Like 2 Peter 3, 7.
Yeah, 2 Peter 3, 7.
Let's since you referencedit, let's go there.
2 Peter 3, 7.
1 Peter 3, 7.
Okay.
Right.
1 Peter 3, 7.
It says, You husbands, in the sameway, live with your wives in an
understanding way as with a weakervessel, since she is a woman.
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And show her honor as a fellowheir of the grace of life, so that
your prayers will not be hindered.
Yeah, that's, that's a, that's aconvicting verse right there, you know.
Right.
You, you, you find yourself feeling likeyour prayers are empty, and they're not
going anywhere, and perhaps it's becauseof the way you're treating your wife.
You've been, you've,you've become selfish.
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Men tend this way, right?
Just tend towards selfishness and so tobe a leader, lover, learner means to, you
know, there's no place for selfishness.
Alright, what else you got there?
The next question is, How can youdevelop a deep friendship with your wife?
This is an interesting question.
(13:52):
Yeah, well what would you say?
You, you, you answer this.
I mean, I don't really want to avoid thecategories that we've been establishing.
I think this is learning about her.
I think the more you learn about her,the more you understand what kinds
of things you enjoy doing together.
Yeah.
What kind of things maybe...
You know, well, maybe she might want todo that by herself instead of with me.
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Right.
Like, I don't know, clothesshopping or something.
Right.
Is that what you're hoping for?
No, not at all.
I love to go clothes shopping.
Okay.
But, just certain things likethat where you, you find the
commonalities and, and discussionsand topics that you both agree on.
Yeah.
You know I think along with thatis, you've got to be careful about
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belittling the things that your wifeloves to do, or the way she thinks.
You can't just sit there and,and and make a joke out of her.
You know, and I think sometimes guys dothis You know, one time I think I, I, I
was at a, I remember I was at a checkoutlane and, and some lady was, I don't
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remember what it was, and I made a jokejust trying to be friendly with her.
Cause she was talking about herhusband, so I made a joke about
my wife, and my wife was there.
And and I, I wasn't being serious,but my wife talked to me afterwards.
She's like, why did you do that?
You know, and, and it was, itwas just belittling to her.
Which I wasn't trying to be, butI don't remember what the joke
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was, but I, I realized then that,you know, that's, it's not funny.
If, if you're going to develop a deepfriendship with your wife, you know, she
needs to, to know that, that you, youcare about what she thinks you, you're,
you know, you're not belittling her.
That you find the, the, the odditiesor the the, the, the unique ways
that she's created that that's, youknow, those are, those are the things
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that make her special, you knowand, and just be encouraging to her.
I think we need to be moreencouraging as men, right?
I agree.
All right, we're moving right along.
Yeah, only a couple morequestions, or a few more.
How can a husband provide leadership, andthis is actually right along with what you
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were just saying, about not demeaning her.
How can a husband provide leadershipwithout demeaning or quenching his
wife's initiative and creativity?
Yeah, you know that, that we'lljust continue what we were saying
about not belittling, but itreminds me of of, of Barnabas.
The Barnabas is his, his name what, why?
(16:23):
My mind is going like crazy.
Encourager.
Right, but I was trying toremember what his name was.
Joseph, is it?
Yeah, I thought so.
So, his, his name isn't Barnabas, right?
His name is literally Son of Encourager.
So here's this guy who, isso good at encouraging people
that it becomes his name.
You know, the Bible records thisfor all of eternity, that here is
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the, the, the, the son of encouragerwhat, what a reputation, you know?
And I think we, we need to work on thismore that we are encouraging our wives.
Obviously we, we don't want to liewhen they're acting in ways that are,
that are wrong but there needs tobe a an encouragement toward what is
good and what is right, what is true.
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Helping them grow in grace and knowledge.
I, I don't know about you, but whenI read this question I immediately
thought of house decoration.
House decoration.
Where, you know, as men, we rarely havea knack for how things look and how
things should be decorated and what...
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looks good even.
Right.
So oftentimes we think purchases that,you know, to put on walls or ledges
can be frivolous and unnecessary.
So I think the woman's naturaltendency to decorate is part of
that initiative and creativity.
But how can a husband provideleadership in that area where
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maybe it's not necessary but...
You know, based on financesor something like that.
Well, you've, yeah, so you've got, you'vegot to and every situation is unique.
You know, you've, you've got to,of course, take into account the,
your budget and all of these things.
I mean, if you don't, if, if you're justbeing frivolous with the money that you
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can't afford to have, especially if you'reaiming towards something, like, I, I do
think that there are financial principlesthat need to be put in place when
you're talking about this kind of stuff.
You know sometimes creativity in, inwhat you're describing about decorating
you know, it can have an impact onthe budget that's not exactly...
good?
And I think that's what you're gettingat here, well, not necessarily, just...
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the husband may thinkit's not good, but...
Right.
Without even looking and checking, or...
it could be anything.
I'm just thinking where...
The husband's thinking practically andthe wife is thinking more creatively.
I see.
I see.
Okay.
I just used an example to help phrase it.
Okay.
Well I was going to say that that asa husband, I think one of the things
you can do to show trust to your wifeis to you know, not to be checking
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on all her purchases all the time buthelping her understand the budget needs.
This is why you get a family budget.
But that's where I was going with that.
But here you're, you're talking aboutthe, you know, the difference in, in
personality, you know, where a wifewants to to make her home a home, and
the husband's like, what do we need,what do we need that for you know, I,
I would just say this, like, man, like,just just let her go you, you're, you're
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not gonna regret it I don't think, Imean, in most cases I mean, maybe you
will, I don't know, but, But regardlessyou know there, there is, there is so
few things I think is beautiful as youknow, coming home after, after a long
day's work to a home where your wifehas has worked to make it just right.
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Yeah.
So it has nothing to do withpractical, it, it's just, I don't
know, there, there's beauty there.
Like, this is who she is, right?
This is You know, she's she'smaking your home her home.
Why wouldn't you want her to do that?
You know, you're dwelling togetherin, in in unity and in love.
And I, I don't know.
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I just think it's a beautiful thing.
Yeah, that that's, that'sexactly what I was going for.
Sort of.
Cause I'm not the one that answeredthe question, but the next one
is what are the most importantfactors in being a good husband?
I feel like some of these are repeating.
Yeah, this is why when you get premarriage counseling and they boil it
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down into something like leader, lover,learner what you discover is that, you
know, it covers a lot of this stuff.
If you would just apply those three thingsyou're going to find a lot of, a lot less
trouble in your home, a lot less conflict.
But what was the question again?
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The most important factorsin being a good husband.
Well, okay, look.
Number one, you've got to be workingon your own growth and godliness.
Hm.
You, you have, you have got to beworking on your relationship with Christ.
That, like, that is first and foremostbecause that will dictate everything else.
(21:09):
Right.
You have got to be workingon your grasp of theology.
Like, the, the, everythingtheological works out practical.
You, you're just not gonnaget to the practical unless
you first look at who God is.
And, and so you've got to be doing thework in, in, in leading the way in this.
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That, that is, thatis, that is number one.
You've got to be able toanswer your wife's questions.
In fact, the Bible says this.
You know that Paul told the, toldthe the women in the church to be
silent because they were dealingwith well, just chaos in the church.
And he says, if you have aquestion, ask your husband at home.
And that assumes that yourhusband is learning and growing.
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And so the husband is likethe priest of the home.
So you think about the church,you've got, you've got the church.
So you've got, you've got the, the,the, the shepherding in the home.
You've got shepherding in the church.
And, and the first stop in,in the home is the husband.
So, you've got to act like the shepherd.
And so I don't rememberwhat the question was.
Being, what did you say, being aThe most important factors of The
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most important factors, right.
It, it is to it is to, well, it's thefirst part of that that statement.
Be the priest of the home.
Right, be the priest of thehome, be the leader of the home.
Everything else will, I, I reallythink it'll fall in line after that.
Because and over and over, like Iwas talking to a man the other, the
other day or we, or last week who youknow, this, this happens a lot where
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you know, one you know, the man willget saved and the wife won't, or,
or sometimes the other way around.
But just by the, by virtue of, ofyou know, the man acting like a man
and leading in his home and growingin grace and knowledge it has this
effect of, of winning over, youknow, your wife toward these things.
It does far more than being able towin arguments when she sees the kind
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of man that you are, that you take yourfaith seriously, that you take your,
your, your walk with Christ seriously,that you're not messing around.
You know, one of the worst things Ithink, and I know I'm going to ruffle
some feathers with this, but I hear thisa lot, and I understand it's good natured
and all that, you know, it's funny, I'vesaid this myself in good humor, but you
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know when, when, you know, like, likethere's two kids in the home and the
wife says, well, actually I have threekids, you know, and she's referring to
her husband who's just a big kid, right?
Right.
Well, that's, that's all fun,you know, when, when, when you're
having fun, but in reality, that's,that's, that is not a good thing.
If, if your reputation is that you're justa big kid, but, but you're, but you're not
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serious about you know, the things of God.
You're setting, you're settingup disaster in your home.
And I, I just can't stress this enough.
You've got to lead the way.
Prioritize spiritual things.
Spirit first, flesh.
Spirit is greater than flesh, right?
Spirit works out into flesh.
(24:04):
Right.
So if you prioritize, prioritizespiritual things, it will have an effect
in, in the fleshly ways in your home.
It, it'll take time.
It's a long, it's a long game.
But but the payoff, thepayoff is, is so worth it.
Hmm.
Just one more question.
How can a husband helphis wife in her growth?
(24:28):
In God given potential.
Yeah, so In theology, we talk aboutpotential versus pure act, right?
Right?
Right, right.
You know what I'm talking about.
You know, God is pure act.
Mm hmm.
Humans are what?
Potential.
Humans are potential.
So, that, that means that Goddoesn't change but humans do.
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And so God is the perfect being, right?
There is no such thing as ahuman being, technically, right?
We're all human becomeings.
We're human becomeings.
And so each of us have potential.
And that potential is workingtoward That potential is working
toward being like Jesus, right?
That's what God is, that'swhat Jesus is making us into.
(25:12):
We will be made, we will be made like Him.
And then, and then, and then Ithink it will, will be an eternity
of becomings because we, we arealways changing, always growing.
Yes, we'll be, we'll be made perfectin, in that we won't morally sin, but,
but our knowledge will continue to grow.
And and so this goes back into,again, that, that acronym, or that
(25:32):
you know, that is an acronym, Iguess, Leader, Love, and Learner.
Right.
Like you want to help hergrow in grace and knowledge.
You want her to reach the potentialand that potential again, Ephesians
5, 26 is that she is blamelessand spotless before Christ.
That's the goal.
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That's the potential.
There's no greater potential than that.
I know we live in a day where, where,where feminists say, you know, your
greatest potential is to, you know,get a career and do all this, but
that, that's a, that's nothing.
Like, so what?
Like, how, how many, how many womenare going to stand before Christ
one day and go see, look, JesusI, I was a really good banker.
(26:14):
Right.
Right?
And I'm not, I'm not belittling banking.
I'm not saying that.
You, you hear what I'm, youunderstand what I'm saying, right?
Like, the greatest goalis to be like Jesus.
Hmm.
And so the husband, his job asa spiritual leader of the home.
Is to help his wife get there.
(26:38):
And so he is again, settingthat spiritual tone, but.
But you know, leading in the inthe, in the, the Bible reading
teaching and there's differentways that that works out.
People have different ways thatthey, you know, men in the home
are, are reading the Bible and such.
But, but the goal is seeing whereyour wife is and, and accepting her
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for who she is and where she is.
You know, it's okay where she's at, right?
It's okay if she's You know if she'snot quite at the level of you or the
other way around But But you're seeingwhat she needs and and you're you're
aiming for For her growth in grace.
(27:20):
Does that does that make sense?
Yeah, I think that does make sense Isthat is that the end of your questions
that that was the last question,all right, so if you apply those
you'll be the perfect husband, right?
No, no.
So what, what is it that we,we could sum all of this up?
Because you've noticed we'vebeen on repeat, we've mentioned
(27:40):
this a couple of times.
What, what was that acronym?
Do you remember?
The three words that we're doingare leader, lover, and learner.
That's right.
A husband is the leader,the lover, and the learner.
And every, every question you havewhen you come to biblical counseling.
You just have to ask yourself a question.
(28:00):
How can I lead?
How can I love her?
And how can I learn her?
That's right.
There's a I always forgetthe title of this book.
You've read it, Zach.
Maybe you can remember that thehusband book, which is the one the
exemplary husband, I keep wantingto say the excellent husband.
No, that's the it's the excellent wife.
And that's by it's right there Marthapiece which I recommend that all.
(28:22):
Women read through here.
An excellent book.
And then, The ExemplaryHusband by Stuart Scott.
Probably the best book I've ever read.
I, I would say handsdown on on husbanding.
So, or husbandry, whateveryou, whatever you say.
So I would, I would recommend that.
The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace andThe Exemplary Husband by Stuart Scott.
(28:45):
And then also I would recommend WayneMack's Marriage God's Way, which
you and Christy are going through.
Wayne Mack's Preparingfor Marriage God's Way.
Wayne Mack's Preparingfor Marriage God's Way.
This is where I got allthe questions out of from.
This is where Dan's taking us through.
Yeah, so Pastor Dan is taking themthrough that book, Wayne Mack and
I went through that only different.
(29:07):
form of it, version of it,when I was, when we were going
through marriage counseling.
And it is an excellent book.
So if you're, if you have, if you'restruggling in your marriage or you
just want to go through a you know, apre, or a re pre marriage counseling
thing do, do the work in that.
Just buy the book and youand your wife go through it.
And then both of you, like re, youknow, the wife, the excellent wife of
(29:29):
Martha Peace and the exemplary husbandof Stuart Scott And I think you'll
find that all of the principles inthere sum up to leader, lover, learner.
So, all right.
Are we done?
That's it.
All right.
All right.
Let's let's do the music thing here.
There we go.
Well, thank you Zach.
Hopefully this has been helpful.
Yeah, I think it's been helpful.
(29:50):
Great.
We'll see you next time.
all right, welcome back to our FaithCastpodcast, where we're discussing
all things theological, practical.
This is a ministry of FaithBaptist Church here in Visalia.
And this is the second installment ofour podcast, so it's good to be here.
(00:26):
I really enjoy doing this.
I had a great conversationwith Shiloh last time.
By the way, this music thatwe intro with is not the music
that we are planning on doing.
So if you have suggestions onwhat we should do, let me know.
I still haven't had time toput some thought into it.
Anyway my name is Eric Northic.
(00:46):
I am one of the pastors here at FaithBaptist Church, and today I have another
one of my sons, Zach with us, or he,he he and his fiance Christie, are
planning on getting married in October.
And as they go through pre-marriagecounseling, one of their.
(01:08):
Requirements is to interviewanother husband, or Zach's job,
Zach has to interview someone.
So I thought, well, why don't we seeif we can make this into a podcast.
We'll see how this goes.
It might be a disaster,but we'll give it a try.
So anyway, Zach, welcome.
Oh, thank you.
How many, how many days, how manyhours, how many minutes do you have?
About 70 days, 14 hours, 10 minutes,and 31 seconds and 12 milliseconds.
(01:33):
Did you just make that up?
Yeah, I just made all that up on the spot.
Okay I don't think Christy is willcome through, but I'll bet she knows.
She's sitting right next to Zach.
Do you know Christy?
68 days.
68 days?
68 days.
Huh?
Nine weeks and six days.
Nine weeks and six days.
Well, that's exciting.
(01:54):
All right.
And so Zach has the task of becominga prepared godly husband by then.
So he's wanting to glean from his dad.
And so he's hopefully getssome good advice here.
We'll, we'll see.
It's, it's, you know,being a godly husband.
It is a lot of work and itrequires dying to what is natural.
(02:15):
It definitely doesn't come natural.
So I think you're, you'restarting to figure some of
this out as you've been dating.
Is that right?
Yeah, some of it.
I mean, there's times where it'sbeen stumbling and, you know, maybe
fallen into the mud a couple times.
But after a while you get the hang of itand then you realize you don't really know
anything at all in a couple more weeks.
(02:36):
No, it really is a, justa progress of learning.
And...
Taking the time to listen, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well let's go ahead and, and, andlaunch into your questions and
see how far we can get with this.
So, go ahead and hitme with the first one.
Alright, so the first questionis, what are a godly husband's
responsibilities to his wife?
(02:57):
Well, I, I think back to mypre marriage counseling and
where, where I first heard this.
Described, and a godly husband isa leader, a lover, and a learner.
He's a leader, a lover, and a learner.
He, he must lead.
(03:17):
He sets the tone in the home spiritually.
He sets the the direction of the home.
And so he's leading.
He, he doesn't lead from behind.
He leads from the front.
He, he takes the shots.
He, he's seeking what is bestfor his wife and for his kids.
(03:39):
And and he's making sure thatas he leads he is he is being
faithful in that, in that leading.
According to scripture.
And there's a lot of examples of this.
. And there's, there's some great books.
Like MacArthur's got a book onleadership, I think is really helpful.
Hmm.
There, there's some greatprinciples for leadership that
(04:00):
apply to that part of being a man.
And one of the things I think thatyoung men mistake for leadership is when
they is when, when, when they, they saythings like, well, Since I'm, since I'm
the man of the home and I'm supposedto lead, you have to do what I say.
(04:21):
And that's where the secondpart of, you know, that leader,
lover, learner comes in.
You have to be a lover.
This is not about you.
It's not about what you want, howyou want it, when you want it.
And so think Philippians 2, right?
Think, think of Christ.
You know, think of the examplein John 13 where he gets down.
And he takes on the form of a slave.
(04:43):
That, that's really whatthis kind of leadership is.
It is to set the, the tone oflove or, or to love your wife.
And that's exactly what is commanded.
Husbands, love your wives justas Christ also loved the church
and gave himself up for her.
It was self sacrificing.
It's interesting.
Before that it says in Ephesians5, 22, wives be subject to your
(05:05):
own husbands as to the Lord.
. And so the wives are to be submissiveto their husbands, but the husbands are
to lead in such a way that their wiveswould desire to to submit there, there
should be a Christ-like kind of lovinggoing on where the wife feels protected
(05:27):
and cared for, that her Her desires arebeing considered as the husband leads.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think that makes sense Andthen you have learner leader lover
learner You're never going to know howto lead or to love your wife by nature
(05:50):
You were born by nature knowing how tolove yourself We, we all were, right?
This is, this is, this issomething that, you know, I think
you've heard a lot in the home.
Right.
Our, our, our sinful tendency,our self, selfish tendencies.
And so, you've got to learn howto love her, and so, which means
you've got to learn about her.
(06:12):
Like my, my wife is very unique inthe way that God made her, and it's
beautiful in the way that He made her.
Even, even the oddities, likespilling ink, as Christy just
did on the, on the table here.
You know, there's different ways thatthat, you know, different ways that
God made Christy and your mother.
And so you've got to learn how.
(06:32):
So like if, if, if if you find yourselfon a, on a camping trip and she wants
to have a photo taken and you wantto chop wood, well, it's, you know.
It's because of, of, of the way thatshe's created, that she wants, you
know, to take in the scenery and,and, and, and take the picture.
I say that because we went camping thisweekend and that, that that actually came
up, which was a great learning opportunityin the way that the two of you think.
(06:55):
Right?
Yeah.
Did you learn something from that?
Yeah, I, I learned a couple things.
One, you know, you justgotta die to yourself.
Yeah.
You know, why not take the picture?
And then the other is...
I learned that being in a pastor'sfamily is like the Miranda Rites.
Anything you say, Canon, willbe used against you in court.
You know, you, you maybe turned intoa sermon analogy, . But in reality,
it's very useful because you learnhow to respond better the next time.
(07:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's true.
You, you learn.
You learn.
Okay.
So what's your next question?
I mean, if, is that satisfying there?
Yeah, I think that's satisfying.
Leader, learner, lover orleader, learner, leader, lover.
It flows off the tongue.
Leader, love learner, better like that.
I don't, I don't know why.
Huh.
But anyway, yeah.
So the next question is, what doesthe Bible mean when describing
(07:41):
the man as the head of the home?
Well, that goes back into whatwe've already talked about, Psalm.
He's, again, he's the onewho will be held accountable.
So, go to Ephesians 5 and you see thisthe husband, husbands love your wife,
verse 25, just as Christ also lovedthe church and gave himself up for her,
that, so that he might sanctify her.
(08:04):
Jesus came remember he's, in John13, he's washing the disciples feet.
And he says, he's alreadymade them clean, right?
And now he's, in asense, he's sanctifying.
So he's taking on the formof a servant or slave.
And he's doing what is necessaryto to, to sanctify them.
And in this way, the husbandfollows that example.
(08:25):
What is it that your wife needs?
And I think this is where a lot ofmen fall prey to to the The, this
idea that you know, can just sortof make decisions and go with it.
But the whole goal is that hiswife, I mean, he's going to
present her before Christ one day.
(08:46):
He's going to give an account.
Yeah.
And and, and, and there's this desirefor joy in that day when you give an
account for your wife, where, where,where you can say, well, with Jesus,
look at her, look how beautiful she is.
Right?
Look at how she is grownin grace and knowledge.
And it will, it will, it will, it willbe this moment of exuberance because
(09:10):
because you will have, you know, ifyou've led her well, you have given
your life to watch it, to help her.
Yeah.
Grow, which means you need tobe ahead of the game, right?
Right.
You need to be you needyou need to be work.
You know, some people say why marriedout of my league I'm married up.
Well, then you've got more work to doYou you better catch up buddy, right?
(09:30):
Because you've got to lead the wayin this There's just no excuses.
Yeah, you got to find away to step out in front.
That's right You got to be infront you got to take the shots.
You got to be seeking that she youknow her her her sanctification then
he might present her to himself, tothe church in all her glory, having no
spot or wrinkle or any such thing, sothat she would be holy and blameless.
(09:52):
There's the goal right there.
You know, it's such a beautiful thing.
Alright, what you got next?
The next question is, what is involvedin being the manager of the home?
I think that this depends on, onthat learner part of, of your wife.
Some, some women have natural tendenciestoward one way or the other in the home.
(10:15):
I think the husband needs to be awareof what is going on in the home.
And he needs to be assured that thingsare operating according to the scripture.
So, what is the instructionfor for, for the home?
You know, Titus 2.
You know, the older woman instructingthe younger woman, and then, and then
you have the young man at the end ofthat list there in the household co code.
And so the goal is to have childrenwho are, who are walking in obedience.
(10:40):
And this, this comes outin, in, in different ways.
I mean, it, it could be you know in, inthe way that they're you know, managing
themselves what, whatever it is, the,the end goal is that you are raising up.
Children who are being nourishedand admonished in the Lord.
And and I think that as a man, you, youknow, you need to be aware of the end
(11:01):
goal and aware of what needs to happen.
And then you provide the helpso that you're, so, so that
whatever your wife needs.
Because you can't, you know,ideally, and, and I think biblically
ideally the man is is out.
You know, like Adam, he's a gardener.
The wife is a helper.
Ideally.
The wife is managing in the home andhelping and, and raising those children.
(11:25):
But but I think as a, as a man, likeagain, you're accountable to it,
to, to, for, for all this stuff.
So you, you need to you just,you need to equip your wife.
And and you need to fill in whatevergaps that are, that are there.
But, but, but I think the bottomline is, you know, knowledge.
Knowing what's going on.
Being aware.
(11:46):
And, and making sure the detailsare, are, are taken care of.
And it just, it just variesdepending on, on the home makeup.
Like in our home, you know, we haveseven boys, and there's, there's a
different makeup in our home thansomebody with only a couple kids.
So.
That's what you got next?
How can you know andfulfill your wife's needs?
(12:06):
Learn.
Yeah.
Learn.
I see a pattern coming.
Ask her questions.
That's right, learn.
So far we haven't left off ofleader, lover, learner, have we?
Yeah.
You gotta learn.
You gotta find out who she, how she ticks.
Who she is.
You know, take her out on dates.
Ask her questions.
I can already hear my wifein the back of my head.
(12:27):
Yeah, why don't you do that more?
Yeah, you know, we allneed to do this more.
We need to, we need to spendtime getting to know our wives.
And if we're really interested in helpingher grow in grace and knowledge and
becoming blameless with no spot or wrinkleor any such thing, then Then we're going
(12:48):
to be, we're going to be keenly interestedin finding out what her needs are.
Like 2 Peter 3, 7.
Yeah, 2 Peter 3, 7.
Let's since you referencedit, let's go there.
2 Peter 3, 7.
1 Peter 3, 7.
Okay.
Right.
1 Peter 3, 7.
It says, You husbands, in the sameway, live with your wives in an
understanding way as with a weakervessel, since she is a woman.
(13:10):
And show her honor as a fellowheir of the grace of life, so that
your prayers will not be hindered.
Yeah, that's, that's a, that's aconvicting verse right there, you know.
Right.
You, you, you find yourself feeling likeyour prayers are empty, and they're not
going anywhere, and perhaps it's becauseof the way you're treating your wife.
You've been, you've,you've become selfish.
(13:30):
Men tend this way, right?
Just tend towards selfishness and so tobe a leader, lover, learner means to, you
know, there's no place for selfishness.
Alright, what else you got there?
The next question is, How can youdevelop a deep friendship with your wife?
This is an interesting question.
(13:52):
Yeah, well what would you say?
You, you, you answer this.
I mean, I don't really want to avoid thecategories that we've been establishing.
I think this is learning about her.
I think the more you learn about her,the more you understand what kinds
of things you enjoy doing together.
Yeah.
What kind of things maybe...
You know, well, maybe she might want todo that by herself instead of with me.
(14:13):
Right.
Like, I don't know, clothesshopping or something.
Right.
Is that what you're hoping for?
No, not at all.
I love to go clothes shopping.
Okay.
But, just certain things likethat where you, you find the
commonalities and, and discussionsand topics that you both agree on.
Yeah.
You know I think along with thatis, you've got to be careful about
(14:34):
belittling the things that your wifeloves to do, or the way she thinks.
You can't just sit there and,and and make a joke out of her.
You know, and I think sometimes guys dothis You know, one time I think I, I, I
was at a, I remember I was at a checkoutlane and, and some lady was, I don't
(14:56):
remember what it was, and I made a jokejust trying to be friendly with her.
Cause she was talking about herhusband, so I made a joke about
my wife, and my wife was there.
And and I, I wasn't being serious,but my wife talked to me afterwards.
She's like, why did you do that?
You know, and, and it was, itwas just belittling to her.
Which I wasn't trying to be, butI don't remember what the joke
(15:16):
was, but I, I realized then that,you know, that's, it's not funny.
If, if you're going to develop a deepfriendship with your wife, you know, she
needs to, to know that, that you, youcare about what she thinks you, you're,
you know, you're not belittling her.
That you find the, the, the odditiesor the the, the, the unique ways
that she's created that that's, youknow, those are, those are the things
(15:40):
that make her special, you knowand, and just be encouraging to her.
I think we need to be moreencouraging as men, right?
I agree.
All right, we're moving right along.
Yeah, only a couple morequestions, or a few more.
How can a husband provide leadership, andthis is actually right along with what you
(16:02):
were just saying, about not demeaning her.
How can a husband provide leadershipwithout demeaning or quenching his
wife's initiative and creativity?
Yeah, you know that, that we'lljust continue what we were saying
about not belittling, but itreminds me of of, of Barnabas.
The Barnabas is his, his name what, why?
(16:23):
My mind is going like crazy.
Encourager.
Right, but I was trying toremember what his name was.
Joseph, is it?
Yeah, I thought so.
So, his, his name isn't Barnabas, right?
His name is literally Son of Encourager.
So here's this guy who, isso good at encouraging people
that it becomes his name.
You know, the Bible records thisfor all of eternity, that here is
(16:47):
the, the, the, the son of encouragerwhat, what a reputation, you know?
And I think we, we need to work on thismore that we are encouraging our wives.
Obviously we, we don't want to liewhen they're acting in ways that are,
that are wrong but there needs tobe a an encouragement toward what is
good and what is right, what is true.
(17:08):
Helping them grow in grace and knowledge.
I, I don't know about you, but whenI read this question I immediately
thought of house decoration.
House decoration.
Where, you know, as men, we rarely havea knack for how things look and how
things should be decorated and what...
(17:29):
looks good even.
Right.
So oftentimes we think purchases that,you know, to put on walls or ledges
can be frivolous and unnecessary.
So I think the woman's naturaltendency to decorate is part of
that initiative and creativity.
But how can a husband provideleadership in that area where
(17:49):
maybe it's not necessary but...
You know, based on financesor something like that.
Well, you've, yeah, so you've got, you'vegot to and every situation is unique.
You know, you've, you've got to,of course, take into account the,
your budget and all of these things.
I mean, if you don't, if, if you're justbeing frivolous with the money that you
(18:10):
can't afford to have, especially if you'reaiming towards something, like, I, I do
think that there are financial principlesthat need to be put in place when
you're talking about this kind of stuff.
You know sometimes creativity in, inwhat you're describing about decorating
you know, it can have an impact onthe budget that's not exactly...
good?
And I think that's what you're gettingat here, well, not necessarily, just...
(18:34):
the husband may thinkit's not good, but...
Right.
Without even looking and checking, or...
it could be anything.
I'm just thinking where...
The husband's thinking practically andthe wife is thinking more creatively.
I see.
I see.
Okay.
I just used an example to help phrase it.
Okay.
Well I was going to say that that asa husband, I think one of the things
you can do to show trust to your wifeis to you know, not to be checking
(18:59):
on all her purchases all the time buthelping her understand the budget needs.
This is why you get a family budget.
But that's where I was going with that.
But here you're, you're talking aboutthe, you know, the difference in, in
personality, you know, where a wifewants to to make her home a home, and
the husband's like, what do we need,what do we need that for you know, I,
I would just say this, like, man, like,just just let her go you, you're, you're
(19:23):
not gonna regret it I don't think, Imean, in most cases I mean, maybe you
will, I don't know, but, But regardlessyou know there, there is, there is so
few things I think is beautiful as youknow, coming home after, after a long
day's work to a home where your wifehas has worked to make it just right.
(19:46):
Yeah.
So it has nothing to do withpractical, it, it's just, I don't
know, there, there's beauty there.
Like, this is who she is, right?
This is You know, she's she'smaking your home her home.
Why wouldn't you want her to do that?
You know, you're dwelling togetherin, in in unity and in love.
And I, I don't know.
(20:06):
I just think it's a beautiful thing.
Yeah, that that's, that'sexactly what I was going for.
Sort of.
Cause I'm not the one that answeredthe question, but the next one
is what are the most importantfactors in being a good husband?
I feel like some of these are repeating.
Yeah, this is why when you get premarriage counseling and they boil it
(20:28):
down into something like leader, lover,learner what you discover is that, you
know, it covers a lot of this stuff.
If you would just apply those three thingsyou're going to find a lot of, a lot less
trouble in your home, a lot less conflict.
But what was the question again?
(20:49):
The most important factorsin being a good husband.
Well, okay, look.
Number one, you've got to be workingon your own growth and godliness.
Hm.
You, you have, you have got to beworking on your relationship with Christ.
That, like, that is first and foremostbecause that will dictate everything else.
(21:09):
Right.
You have got to be workingon your grasp of theology.
Like, the, the, everythingtheological works out practical.
You, you're just not gonnaget to the practical unless
you first look at who God is.
And, and so you've got to be doing thework in, in, in leading the way in this.
(21:31):
That, that is, thatis, that is number one.
You've got to be able toanswer your wife's questions.
In fact, the Bible says this.
You know that Paul told the, toldthe the women in the church to be
silent because they were dealingwith well, just chaos in the church.
And he says, if you have aquestion, ask your husband at home.
And that assumes that yourhusband is learning and growing.
(21:52):
And so the husband is likethe priest of the home.
So you think about the church,you've got, you've got the church.
So you've got, you've got the, the,the, the shepherding in the home.
You've got shepherding in the church.
And, and the first stop in,in the home is the husband.
So, you've got to act like the shepherd.
And so I don't rememberwhat the question was.
Being, what did you say, being aThe most important factors of The
(22:14):
most important factors, right.
It, it is to it is to, well, it's thefirst part of that that statement.
Be the priest of the home.
Right, be the priest of thehome, be the leader of the home.
Everything else will, I, I reallythink it'll fall in line after that.
Because and over and over, like Iwas talking to a man the other, the
other day or we, or last week who youknow, this, this happens a lot where
(22:36):
you know, one you know, the man willget saved and the wife won't, or,
or sometimes the other way around.
But just by the, by virtue of, ofyou know, the man acting like a man
and leading in his home and growingin grace and knowledge it has this
effect of, of winning over, youknow, your wife toward these things.
It does far more than being able towin arguments when she sees the kind
(23:00):
of man that you are, that you take yourfaith seriously, that you take your,
your, your walk with Christ seriously,that you're not messing around.
You know, one of the worst things Ithink, and I know I'm going to ruffle
some feathers with this, but I hear thisa lot, and I understand it's good natured
and all that, you know, it's funny, I'vesaid this myself in good humor, but you
(23:20):
know when, when, you know, like, likethere's two kids in the home and the
wife says, well, actually I have threekids, you know, and she's referring to
her husband who's just a big kid, right?
Right.
Well, that's, that's all fun,you know, when, when, when you're
having fun, but in reality, that's,that's, that is not a good thing.
If, if your reputation is that you're justa big kid, but, but you're, but you're not
(23:43):
serious about you know, the things of God.
You're setting, you're settingup disaster in your home.
And I, I just can't stress this enough.
You've got to lead the way.
Prioritize spiritual things.
Spirit first, flesh.
Spirit is greater than flesh, right?
Spirit works out into flesh.
(24:04):
Right.
So if you prioritize, prioritizespiritual things, it will have an effect
in, in the fleshly ways in your home.
It, it'll take time.
It's a long, it's a long game.
But but the payoff, thepayoff is, is so worth it.
Hmm.
Just one more question.
How can a husband helphis wife in her growth?
(24:28):
In God given potential.
Yeah, so In theology, we talk aboutpotential versus pure act, right?
Right?
Right, right.
You know what I'm talking about.
You know, God is pure act.
Mm hmm.
Humans are what?
Potential.
Humans are potential.
So, that, that means that Goddoesn't change but humans do.
(24:51):
And so God is the perfect being, right?
There is no such thing as ahuman being, technically, right?
We're all human becomeings.
We're human becomeings.
And so each of us have potential.
And that potential is workingtoward That potential is working
toward being like Jesus, right?
That's what God is, that'swhat Jesus is making us into.
(25:12):
We will be made, we will be made like Him.
And then, and then, and then Ithink it will, will be an eternity
of becomings because we, we arealways changing, always growing.
Yes, we'll be, we'll be made perfectin, in that we won't morally sin, but,
but our knowledge will continue to grow.
And and so this goes back into,again, that, that acronym, or that
(25:32):
you know, that is an acronym, Iguess, Leader, Love, and Learner.
Right.
Like you want to help hergrow in grace and knowledge.
You want her to reach the potentialand that potential again, Ephesians
5, 26 is that she is blamelessand spotless before Christ.
That's the goal.
(25:52):
That's the potential.
There's no greater potential than that.
I know we live in a day where, where,where feminists say, you know, your
greatest potential is to, you know,get a career and do all this, but
that, that's a, that's nothing.
Like, so what?
Like, how, how many, how many womenare going to stand before Christ
one day and go see, look, JesusI, I was a really good banker.
(26:14):
Right.
Right?
And I'm not, I'm not belittling banking.
I'm not saying that.
You, you hear what I'm, youunderstand what I'm saying, right?
Like, the greatest goalis to be like Jesus.
Hmm.
And so the husband, his job asa spiritual leader of the home.
Is to help his wife get there.
(26:38):
And so he is again, settingthat spiritual tone, but.
But you know, leading in the inthe, in the, the Bible reading
teaching and there's differentways that that works out.
People have different ways thatthey, you know, men in the home
are, are reading the Bible and such.
But, but the goal is seeing whereyour wife is and, and accepting her
(26:59):
for who she is and where she is.
You know, it's okay where she's at, right?
It's okay if she's You know if she'snot quite at the level of you or the
other way around But But you're seeingwhat she needs and and you're you're
aiming for For her growth in grace.
(27:20):
Does that does that make sense?
Yeah, I think that does make sense Isthat is that the end of your questions
that that was the last question,all right, so if you apply those
you'll be the perfect husband, right?
No, no.
So what, what is it that we,we could sum all of this up?
Because you've noticed we'vebeen on repeat, we've mentioned
(27:40):
this a couple of times.
What, what was that acronym?
Do you remember?
The three words that we're doingare leader, lover, and learner.
That's right.
A husband is the leader,the lover, and the learner.
And every, every question you havewhen you come to biblical counseling.
You just have to ask yourself a question.
(28:00):
How can I lead?
How can I love her?
And how can I learn her?
That's right.
There's a I always forgetthe title of this book.
You've read it, Zach.
Maybe you can remember that thehusband book, which is the one the
exemplary husband, I keep wantingto say the excellent husband.
No, that's the it's the excellent wife.
And that's by it's right there Marthapiece which I recommend that all.
(28:22):
Women read through here.
An excellent book.
And then, The ExemplaryHusband by Stuart Scott.
Probably the best book I've ever read.
I, I would say handsdown on on husbanding.
So, or husbandry, whateveryou, whatever you say.
So I would, I would recommend that.
The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace andThe Exemplary Husband by Stuart Scott.
(28:45):
And then also I would recommend WayneMack's Marriage God's Way, which
you and Christy are going through.
Wayne Mack's Preparingfor Marriage God's Way.
Wayne Mack's Preparingfor Marriage God's Way.
This is where I got allthe questions out of from.
This is where Dan's taking us through.
Yeah, so Pastor Dan is taking themthrough that book, Wayne Mack and
I went through that only different.
(29:07):
form of it, version of it,when I was, when we were going
through marriage counseling.
And it is an excellent book.
So if you're, if you have, if you'restruggling in your marriage or you
just want to go through a you know, apre, or a re pre marriage counseling
thing do, do the work in that.
Just buy the book and youand your wife go through it.
And then both of you, like re, youknow, the wife, the excellent wife of
(29:29):
Martha Peace and the exemplary husbandof Stuart Scott And I think you'll
find that all of the principles inthere sum up to leader, lover, learner.
So, all right.
Are we done?
That's it.
All right.
All right.
Let's let's do the music thing here.
There we go.
Well, thank you Zach.
Hopefully this has been helpful.
Yeah, I think it's been helpful.
(29:50):
Great.
We'll see you next time.
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