Aiko Smith: Calming your mind, body, and nervous system with mindfulness

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're the big sky.

(00:01):
You're the big blue sky.
And all of these emotions are justclouds, like just passing through.
And if you sit long enough, they do pass.
And if you do that consistently,you learn like, that's not me.
I'm not scared.
That's just an emotion.
Hello, hello, and welcomeback to the I'm Lost, So What?
Podcast in today's episode?

(00:22):
I've got my friend Aiko Smith(she/her) who is a mindfulness
teacher, speaker, and writer.
Aiko is a two times TEDx speaker, motherof three mindfulness facilitator, coach,
and teacher trained by UCLA's SemmelInstitute of neuroscience and human
behaviors, mindfulness, awareness,research center driven by creating a
kinder, more compassionate country.

(00:44):
Aiko has devoted her life andcareer to teaching how to use
evidence based mindfulness practicesand tools in daily life to keep
mentally fit as a thought leader.
She envisions a society liberatedfrom unnecessary suffering.
Content warning on this episode.
We do get into talks around depression,anxiety, racism, and white supremacy.

(01:04):
I'm really excited for youall to take a listen to this.
Aiko and I met at our TEDx talkback in December, 2021 in LA.
And I know this conversation is goingto explore lots of that tension feeling
that I love exploring on this podcast.
So without further ado,let's just get into it.
Hello, hello, everyone.

(01:25):
I'm Cassandra Le, and you'relistening to I'm Lost, So What?
The podcast exploring betweenbelonging and carving your own path
for all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on.
Yeah.
Hey, Aiko
hello.
Oh, I was going to say, I'msuper excited to have you here.

(01:46):
I am.
I've been thinking about it for weeks.
I'm so excited to talk to
you.
Yeah.
And it's also so good to see you.
Well, you all don't know this, butI can see, I go, you all can't.
It's been a while.
I know.
It's been a couple months, maybe a year.
It's too long.
I know.
Eventually, we'll like meet up againin person, hopefully, somewhere in

(02:07):
the world, hopefully where you are.
Yeah.
Uh, maybe not in the summertimebecause it's like too hot.
It's like a hundred plus, so youdon't want to be here right now.
You don't want to be here either.
I'm in Vegas.
It was, I'm not kidding, 118 degrees.
Yeah, it's okay.
So it is about the same here because thisweek it's like 105 and we also have hot.

(02:30):
I think you have dry heat over there.
So we have dry heat where we are.
So it's not so bad in the shade, but
it's hot.
Yeah, it's hot.
And we just had a weird storm.
So hurricane.
I don't know if youheard we had a hurricane.
Yes, I remember Hurricane Hillary.
And so it's been humid, but like inthe desert, it's been very strange.
It makes me afraid for the future.

(02:52):
Yeah.
What an interesting sensation.
Really weird.
Yeah.
But now it's just hot.
Oh gosh.
Yay for heat.
So I am really excitedfor this conversation.
And I guess let's just diveinto it because I feel like
we've got lots to talk about.
So first thing that I alwayslike to ask people is what
does being lost mean to you?

(03:13):
And can you describe thefeeling of being lost?
Being lost to me means not being where youintended on being and then being caught.
Between where you intended on beingand then where you actually are.
For me, that's, that's thefeeling that I have when I'm lost.
Not exactly where I intended onbeing and then just being caught

(03:38):
in a struggle between the realityand then where I want to go.
Do you think it's like, I don't knowif this is like, I would categorize
anything as good or bad, but I guessBecause, I mean, we're going to get
into this in the conversation aboutreintegrating your body and mind.
So I'm curious to know where doesbeing lost or that feeling of

(03:58):
being lost show up in your body?
In my body, I think it's like, Ifeel a lot of things in my chest,
just kind of like a heartbreak,you know, like if you, I don't know
if you've ever experienced one.
Yes.
But the real.
You get like a real likeachy heart, you know?
And so I feel it in my chest a lot.

(04:19):
And I think it's, the experience isreally anxiety and I feel it in my chest
and it's not, I never say negative.
Like, I don't think it'slike a negative thing.
It's a challenge because it's notcomfortable, but it does feel like
anxiety, it's not comfortable, but it'sthe energy that makes you aware that

(04:39):
it's time to make different choices.
So it's informative.
Oh, I love that.
And also, I totally understandthe achy heart feeling.
Um, as soon as you said that I wasthinking about my Spotify wrapped,
I think from like 2022 and I thinkthat year they were like, here are
the top three adjectives to describelike the music that you listen to.

(05:01):
And mine was.
Literally yearning and I was like,wow, that pretty much describes me.
Yeah.
But no, that's what it, that'swhat it feels like an achy, achy
heart, like a, um, just open an openheart bit, a little achy, anxious.

(05:22):
And I guess it also could be excitementto, you know, all things at once.
So excitement, anxiety, achy chest.
Scared, out of
--all of the things.
Yeah.
So thanks for describing that.
And I love that you like shared allof like these very real emotions,

(05:42):
as well as like putting an exampleto it of like a broken heart.
I do feel like, well, we'regoing to get into mindfulness now
when people aren't necessarilycreating space for mindfulness.
Do you think that they are aware?
Of these things or like of thesefeelings of being lost or not?

(06:02):
I mean, I know that's a supergeneral question and every person
is like a different case, but doyou think people are aware of it?
Um, could they like put words to itor maybe they don't have the language,
which is totally fine because I feellike sometimes I didn't have the
language to describe how I'm feelinguntil somebody else described it.
Right.
I think that a lot of people experiencethe feeling, but then they kind of, uh,

(06:26):
subscribe it to different things, right?
It's hard to admit that you're lost,you know, is it's like, it's like,
we want to know, we want people tothink that we have it all together.
We want to think thatwe have it all together.
So just kind of realizing, recognizing,okay, I'm not where I intended to go.
And I'm actually here.
And I don't really know which wayI'm going to go this way or that way.

(06:50):
That's a hard thing to admit.
And so before you get to get brave andadmit like, Oh, I'm a little lost here.
And I don't really knowwhich direction to go.
There needs to be like an acceptance.
It is in itself a mindfulness practice.
So I think when people aren't mindfuland they aren't aware, they could
subscribe this feeling to anything,the traffic, uh, frustration with

(07:11):
your partner frustration with work,whatever, whatever it is that it's also
a stressor, we put it on those things.
It's like a, it's easier, those areeasier things to put that emotion on
instead of being like, I don't knowwhat the hell I'm doing and I don't
really know which direction to go now.
You know what I mean?
Like that's hard.
Hey, it's hard to admit.
And especially if you're a professional,if you own your own business, if

(07:33):
you're an entrepreneur, that's like,you don't want to say, I don't know.
I don't know what I'm doing.
You know, because it kind oflike there's the ego involved
too, you know, it's difficult.
You need to be braveto admit those things.
So not a lot of people can do it.
I don't think.
Got it.
So then, okay.
So we were talking about likethe mindfulness practice and can

(07:55):
you define what mindfulness is?
to you and like what a practiceactually looks like because I
realized while you were talking itwas like maybe people might not know.
So in case you don't.
So mindfulness is meditation.
It's also so many other things.
So It's a lens that you view life throughwhere you're open and you're curious

(08:17):
and you're kind and compassionate.
And it's also a meditation where we'refocusing on one area and being really
being an observer of our thoughts andfeelings and what we're experiencing in
this space where we're detached from it.
And so, so we could thinkclearly, we could see clearly.

(08:38):
I liken it to like being on the ground.
Looking at the sky and just noticing theclouds kind of shifting in and out of
your experiencing out of your experience.
And then you know, relating to youremotions that way, just witnessing and
then allowing them to move, um, youknow, in and out of your experience.

(09:00):
That's also, that's mindfulness.
That's, that's the meditation, butjust being mindful every day is
just being present, aware, and beingbrave enough to just keep it real.
Real.
This is a challenging emotion.
I'm anxious.
I'm stressed.
I'm lost.
I have a heartbreak.
I feel this way.
Just being able to recognize, accept,investigate, nurture, and not attached

(09:26):
to the difficult things that we feel,not let that mean something about us.
That's also a mindfulness practice.
So it's all encompassing.
It really is just like a lens.
And so if you're an entrepreneur, or,you know, or you have this path of
your own that you're carving, it'svery necessary because it's so easy to

(09:48):
get lost, you know, listening to theopinions and perspective of others and
letting that kind of deter you awayfrom like what your intentions are.
So to be grounded in yourpurpose, it takes time.
It takes time.
It takes space.
Like you need a little bit of solitudeand you need to give yourself time.
So it is a mindful way of living.

(10:09):
Mindfulness is everything.
Everything.
I feel like everything that youjust shared, I'm like, Oh my gosh,
there's a lot to pull out from there.
Okay.
Let me see.
Cause I have so many directions.
I don't want to take this.
So something that you shared was,I don't want to say being mindful.
In mindfulness, because, youknow, that's like defining
the word mindful with mindful.
Being aware and being presentof the feelings and emotions

(10:33):
that are coming up for you.
And then something that you saidaround, like, not detaching yourself.
Or no, not attaching or detaching.
I think you said not, or detaching fromthat emotion to not make it about you
or like letting ego kind of take over.
Is that one of like the main strugglesor challenges that you see people

(10:56):
make when they start to try to keepup with a mindfulness practice, or
is that more of like something thatkind of stops people from actually
participating in a mindfulness practice?
Does that make sense?
Yes, absolutely.
So two ways like so I coach mindfulliving, like how to take what you do on
your meditation cushion and like apply itto how you like move about in the world.

(11:17):
So when you're sitting down practicingmindfulness, you're meditating, you're
focusing on something your breath.
Um, you could be looking at a candle.
You could just whatever.
You're focusing on one thing.
Your attention will leave andthen you'll bring it back.
So in real life, when you are, whenyou're just kind of moving about and

(11:38):
you're having these emotions, you couldjust recognize that they're there and
it's like not letting them take over.
And so a lot of the times peoplewill be experiencing, you know,
you know, you are an entrepreneur,you know, that it's stressful.
It's scary.
It's all these reallychallenging emotions.

(12:00):
So when you're practicing mindfulness,you could recognize that's scary.
I'm not sure, but you won't let thoseemotions Drive you just recognize
like, okay, like Elizabeth Gilbertsays they're in the car, you aware
you Cassandra, you're sitting andyou're driving, but they're scared as
a passenger anxious as a passenger.

(12:23):
you know, whatever.
They're all passengers in the car,but you are the one in control.
You're the one saying,you don't have shotgun.
You got to sit in the back.
I'm not taking directionfrom any of you guys.
I'm in control.
So that's, that's how we,that's how we kind of view
emotions and how we handle them.
You know, they're there.
We recognize their existence, butthey're just not in the front seat,

(12:46):
like aware, grounded, intentional us.
The big eye is the one in control.
Does that makes sense?
I think so.
Kind of.
So I think the example that yougave was super helpful because
I can remember like before.
I worked with life coaches,um, and also my therapist.
Um, I think a lot of the times my emotionsbasically controlled all my actions.

(13:12):
So the example that you shared about like,Oh, me being in the driver's seat and
then like fear, frustration, whatever isthe passenger, like sitting in the back.
I like.
Literally imagined fear, takingthe driving wheel and like, you
know, skirting me over onto theside or something like that.
And that's happened alot of times in my life.

(13:33):
Um, and you know, sometimes it stillhappens, but I do totally get what you
mean by like, okay, mindfulness practiceof, oh, I recognize that they're there.
They're kind of just coming withme, but I'm still the one that's
like, okay, I'm driving like I amthe one that's making the decisions.
And I'm the one that's taking actionbased off of what I actually feel

(13:55):
grounded in instead of letting fear decidefor me what action I'm going to take.
Right.
Because those are liketemporary passengers in the car.
Yeah.
You know, like they're not going tobe with us the whole journey, and
they could just sit down and be quiet.
They don't need to belike giving us direction.
Yeah.
Right.
So that's what it is.
But I don't know if thatreally answered the question.

(14:15):
Well, I, well, thequestion, let me repeat it.
So the question was, how do youdetach yourself from those emotions.
Cause I, maybe I didn't ask it so clearly.
I think I like mixed three questionsin one, but I guess, yeah, for
people who are listening, detaching-
detaching from the emotion.
So it's not like you're not experiencingthem because you're, you're there.

(14:37):
So when you're sitting down inmeditation, it's very simple.
And that's why peoplekind of don't like it.
It's really hard to get peopleto like, okay, sit down for
15 minutes a day and meditate.
You sit down and you close youreyes and it's like shit show, right?
It's like, oh my god, I got to dothis and this and this and that.
Like, what the hell am Istill doing sitting here?
There's so many things to do and it feelslike, like anxiety and stress and like it,

(15:02):
it feels yuck, but it really is sittingdown and then that stuff is already there.
You know, that anxiety here.
It's already operating.
It's just that you're now you'resitting down and you're recognizing it.
And so that's why peopledon't like to do it.
But the way that you detachedis like when you're focused
on something like your breath.

(15:22):
long enough that those emotionswill come up, but you could
redirect your attention, right?
Like where that you place your focus.
It's like being in that car.
There's fear sitting in the passengerside, but I'm looking straight ahead.
So like the fear is going to quietdown because my attention isn't on it.
It's there.
But my attention's on the road and I'm notgoing to let fear get in front of my line

(15:46):
of vision or take over the driver's seat.
It's just sitting thereand I know it's there.
So there was like an automatic kindof, I'm not the fear, it's just here.
And when you're sitting andmeditating, you can actually
recognize it coming and going.
You know, and that's the detachment.
Like, you're the big sky, you're thebig blue sky, and all these emotions are

(16:10):
just clouds, like, just passing through.
And if you sit long enough, they do pass.
And if you do that consistently,you learn, like, that's not me.
I'm not scared.
That's just an emotionflowing through my experience.
So you're not going to get it the firsttime you sit down and meditate, not even
the 100th time, but it's something thatyou cultivate over time that gets like

(16:32):
stronger and stronger where you're ableto just move your attention with more
Yeah.
Oh, I love that.
Okay.
That definitely answered the question.
And then it definitely reminded meof, I think an episode I recorded
in season one called rest in peace.
This was a very dramatic title becauseI was like, let's make it dramatic.
It was called the rest in peace tothe me I learned to love, which was

(16:55):
basically an episode talking about grief.
And in that episode I mentioned like,Oh, I thank goodness, like nobody in
my family, I didn't lose anybody inmy family or in my immediate circle.
All things.
And during COVID, but during likethose, these past three years, I
have been going through some sort oflike grief towards myself and like

(17:16):
the identity that I have and likehow I want to show up in the world.
And I just kept thinking, well, basically,when you were describing all of this,
like grief sat there for a really longtime in this like road trip and there
were lots of times I think that I couldhave let grief take over and instead it
was more like, okay, I know it's there.

(17:37):
This is very uncomfortable.
Grief takes up a lot of space in the car.
Grief is like literally sprawled out.
And with like, it's arms andlegs all over the place, they're
eating chips and they're justlike, Oh yeah, grief is loving it.
And I'm over here like, okay,just keep going, just keep going.
And it is an uncomfortable feeling.

(17:58):
Um, but I think also I thinkcultivating like a mindfulness practice
or just any awareness around likeemotions, feelings is super helpful
because then your actions aren'tnecessarily being dominated by them.
And instead you're actually doingthings that I think you won't
necessarily like regret, I think, after.

(18:20):
It gives you more choice.
Yeah.
More choice.
It's not, you know, when you don'tknow that that feeling is going
to end, you make bad choices.
But if you know, like, okay, grief'shere and which I don't think, you
know, with grief, it's different.
It's kind of like sometimes you gotto let grief take the wheel and let
it drop you off where it needs to.
And I feel like wherever it does,there's a learning there and a healing.

(18:43):
You know, like in this, in America,in this Western world, we just want
everything to feel good all the time.
We're addicted to feeling good.
And that's just not, you know, likeBuddha says, like life is suffering.
It's not supposed tofeel good all the time.
There's, if you love,there's grief, right?
Yeah.
As it ends, like people die.
That's just.

(19:03):
That's just the truth.
Things end.
Jobs end.
What you wanted to be, that ends.
There's just grief.
That's a part of it.
And it is sad.
And that's okay.
And just knowing like, aftersadness, it's not forever.
It's flowing out like those clouds.
And then There, there's new clouds andthere's sun and sky and so it's okay

(19:24):
to go there and just it's courageous togo there because you don't know where
it's going to take you, you know, butlike sometimes our hearts need to break
open and then something new is born,you know, so like just being brave
about it, I think, and especially likefor us and the journey that we're on.
It's like, we have to be, wehave to let a lot of things die.

(19:44):
Yeah.
A lot of things.
A lot of things like that's dead.
I want it to do that.
Yep.
LOL jokes on you.
Um, okay.
So I guess then for the people whowant to incorporate more mindfulness
into their lives or keep up withit, can you share two tips for them?
Um, I like to break it upinto like tangible tactical.

(20:05):
So these are things that like, you know.
Get a corner, blah, blah, blah.
And then also like the emotional,mental, spiritual, because I feel
like a lot of people, me includedwhen I first started with like a
mindfulness or meditative practice, Iwas like, Oh, I got to get a yoga mat.
And then, um, I wanted toget like a little candle.
Uh, and then I kind of like built aspace, but then the act of actually

(20:27):
doing the thing, I was like, Hmm, thiscandle is not necessarily doing it.
So yeah, can you share a tangibletactical tip and then like an
emotional, mental, spiritual one?
Yeah.
So I, I love community.
I think if you want to doanything consistently, like
the other C is like community.

(20:47):
So like if you want to meditate andyou want to be like a meditator and
like do it every morning, I highlysuggest like getting a buddy to do it
with you or joining a meditation group.
There's tons of them that like you login and on zoom and you just meditate
together because it is a difficultpractice because there's nobody there.

(21:08):
It's just you.
It's so easy to be like, don't feel likedoing it, you know, but I think we're
just like with all habits attaching thepractice to something that you're doing
already is a way to make it stick and.
If you aren't the kind of person thatcould sit down and, you know, with your
yoga mat and light your candle and yourPalo Santo and like do the whole thing,

(21:33):
I'm all about like taking, like I said,like that practice on the go, like you're
meditating, mindfulness is lovely becauseyou could take it on the go, because like
I said, it's like a lens as well, a waythat you view and interact with life.
And so just starting small,making your practice.
drinking your cup ofcoffee in the morning.
If you drink coffee every day,you're doing it already every day.

(21:56):
It's already a built in habit.
You could build amindfulness practice in it.
So just making sure that you're presentand grounded and aware when you were
drinking your cup of coffee, that isyour point of focus is your action
of drinking coffee and all of yourattention is there and when your mind

(22:16):
starts to think about work or thecommute to work or the, you know, your
kids or relationship or whatever yougot going on, just redirecting your
attention back to the coffee and thateverything that has to do with the
coffee, the taste, the smell, the warmthin your hands and just staying there.
That's a practice.
You already doing it anyway.

(22:38):
And you could cultivate this awareness.
That's going to keep yougrounded throughout your day.
Just doing that every, youknow, five minutes a day.
And as that practice grows,mindfulness is like kindness.
It just grows.
So if you're mindful here in thisspot, it's going to leak over kind
of just like a bad hat too, right?

(22:59):
Yeah.
It's just going to leakover into something else.
Then you'll be more mindful in the car.
Then you'll be more mindfulinteractions with others.
And so it's a practice, but then it justbe kind of it with practice and time.
It becomes who you are grounded,aware, paying attention.
You have more control over your focus,which has been really freaking difficult.

(23:22):
Over the past three years,like focus is like a thing.
There's so many apps and dingsand calendars and this and that.
It's like I sit down at my computerand it takes me a good 15 minutes to
like, settle into like, all right,I'm writing this article or I'm
researching this attentions everywhere.

(23:44):
So just building it into something thatyou do already, it's going to help you
focus, stay grounded, stay calm, peace,clarity, and then everything that's
challenging that you're experiencingmight come up to, to your awareness.
Because when you're aware, like, okay, I'mactually feeling a little anxious today.
Yeah..
You take care of yourself in a better way.

(24:05):
That's going to be more conducive toyourself and everybody around you.
Now, you know, okay, I'm feeling anxious.
This emotion is an informant.
There was something thatneeds to be done here.
Let me, you know, lookaround and see what that is.
Make a list.
You know what I'm saying?
Like once you are.
Make the choice to sit and practicewhatever that can be brushing your teeth.

(24:28):
It could be your morning walk whatyou have a dog that could be your
mindfulness practice, but justsomething that you're doing just do it.
Like just actually do that thing withoutletting your attention go laundry.
You're just folding laundry dishes.
You're just washing dishes.
Even in this conversation, I'mjust having a conversation.

(24:48):
I'm not like looking behind youat those calendars, wondering what
you're doing in November and December.
You know what I mean?
Like, I'm just like right here.
I think that's a lovely way to begin.
A mindfulness practice that's going tostick and I, it will go into like, all
right, I think I could sit, you know, letme find a group or let me find a teacher.
And I think it's, I'msorry, I'm like rambling.

(25:09):
I think it's always great to find ateacher, not just because I am one, but
there are so many things that come upduring a practice that make you a little
bit insecure doing it right or wrong likeI'm not sure if this is right or this
is, you know, there's a lot of that whenyou start so that's why I say community,
so you have people that are like in itwith you where you could be like actually

(25:32):
didn't meditate that whole time andI was just, you know, in an argument.
Um, I'm already in an argument with mycoworker and I'm just thinking about
what I'm going to say to her when I seeher, you know, doing that the whole time
and then the community rallying aroundand being like, Oh yeah, you know, that
happens because it does, you know, so
I love that.

(25:52):
I also really believe that when youattach it to something that you already
do, um, it makes it like 10 timeseasier and then it kind of, it really
does expand because I remember whenI wanted to build like a mindfulness.
Practice.
I wanted more like a morning routine andthen I didn't even realize that I built
a mindfulness practice because then Ilike, I started doing things and then they

(26:14):
kind of just like added to each other.
So then it was like, you know,sun salutations in the morning.
I don't do very many, but I do them.
Um, and then after it's like aglass of water, then it's my coffee.
Then I come to my desk, then I startjournaling and all of that I've
realized, like, because I've beenbuilding on it and doing it for so long.
If I don't do it to start myday, I'm like, I am scattered.

(26:37):
Like my brain is goinglike a mile a minute.
I cannot focus on any tasks I need to do.
And what I really need was tojust kind of like clear everything
first to kind of start the wayI want to start, which is like.
Calm, not scattered and not like,oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And I think that's like,you know, love yourself.

(26:59):
You know, everyone's alwayslike self love, self care.
It's like if you were thinking aboutcare for yourself, wouldn't you take
five minutes or whatever, 20 minutes,30 minutes, to yourself in the beginning
of the day to like get your assright before you go out there and be
bombarded with other people's energy.

(27:20):
It's like, can I getmy energy right first?
Can I get aligned and calm andgrounded here and have my own plan
of things I need to do today beforeI get infiltrated by everyone else.
It's like the greatest act of self love,I think, and, and that builds on, you
know, that everything builds on itself,you know, boundaries are created.

(27:42):
Your worth is created.
I'm worth it.
You know, that 20 minutes in themorning and that builds on itself too.
So when people are, you know, beingcrazy, you know, like I have some worth
here and you can't talk to me likethat, or I won't do, and so it is.
The highest act of self love, I thinkis just having that practice in the

(28:02):
morning for yourself and at night.
Yeah.
I'm working on the nighttime one.
Um, it's a work in progress.
Yeah.
Morning one.
I'm like, oh, this is great.
You can't do it all at one time.
I know.
It's like, if I got my morning routinegoing, then the night routine's off,
but the night's off or the night's on,then the morning, it's like, I'm just
going to like, get it all together.
Like my mom, like put it together.

(28:23):
Oh my gosh.
That's so
-. -Like so many rituals.
Like that's amazing.
You know?
Okay.
So now that we kind of shared a littlebit about mindfulness, I am curious to
know because something that you shared, Ithink it's out on your website, but kind
of using your personal story for I guesscreating change or creating opportunities.

(28:43):
I'm not totally sure, but what partsof your personal story did you tap
into that you were most afraid of?
And then how did that change yourlife or what happened afterward?
I kind of know a little bit of yourstory, mainly because we did a TEDx.
Like we were in TEDx Delthornetogether back in December, 2021.
So I will actually link Ico's TEDxtalk in the show notes, but I mean,

(29:06):
tapping into your story is really scary.
Admitting things toyourself is really scary.
So, and there's lots ofparts of our stories, right?
Like, you know, it's notjust, okay, one and done.
I flipped the page and.
The story's over as we live our lives,our story expands and changes and like
certain conflict resolution, all of thatstuff also shifts because time passes.

(29:28):
So what part of your story did youtap into that you were most afraid of?
If you feel comfortable sharing,or if you haven't tapped into it
yet, I don't want you to be like,Oh yeah, tell all on this podcast.
Um, but yeah, if you have one?
Well, you know, that I grew up, I'mmixed race, so I'm black and Japanese.
I grew up in an all white area.

(29:50):
My parents were, this islike, where's the violin?
My parents were divorced.
My dad was abus- he's passedaway now, but he was, he was a
abusive, but he was abusive Hewas, had drug addiction problems.
He was in the military.

(30:10):
He was a doctor.
He was a lot of things,but my parents split.
And so I grew up with my Japanese mother,my two sisters who were also black
and Japanese in this all white area.
And we grew up really poor becausewe didn't have two parents.
We just had one immigrantmother, um, in California, in LA.
And so we grew up really poor, butwe grew up in all white spaces.

(30:33):
So we were just okay enough to livein a white area, but we were like
the poorest people in the area.
So being like an outlier, you know, justkind of not really fitting in when I was
younger, created a lot of feelings of notbeing worthy, insecurity, anti blackness,

(30:56):
a lot of things that I had to learn andunlearn about myself that was created by
the environment that I was in that hadlike nothing to do with me personally.
Yeah.
And also I have, I have like a lotof compassion and forgiveness towards
like everybody that I grew up withbecause they didn't know either, but
a lot of the microaggressions and theracism and the white supremacy that was

(31:22):
just like embedded into the culture.
I didn't realize had such a negativeeffect on my like body image, self image
and like how I carried myself about and.
Life until I was an adult, until Ibecame mindful, until I was like,
where did that thought come from?
What's this feeling like?
Or why is this relationship thatI'm in suitable when it's not?

(31:44):
Just be a lot of self inquiry.
So growing up in that kind of challengingcircumstance and challenging circumstances
has been like the, the juiciness ofeverything that I do because I feel
like I've experienced a lot of sufferingand maybe a lot of like my peers that

(32:05):
were going through the same challengesdidn't have this other layer of poverty
or racism or not belonging like me.
So I was able to, you know,relate to people more easily, um,
understand emotions more easilybecause I was always in them.
So a lot of everything thatI've experienced in my life has

(32:27):
led me to do what I want to do.
Made me very purposeful and justwanting to you know, cultivate
awareness for everybody.
Like I said, it's like the peoplethat I love and that I grew up with
didn't know that they were causingme harm by their ignorance about
white supremacy, how it functions.
Yeah.
Even the misogyny, uh, the misogynoir,all of it, the Asian fetishing, all

(32:53):
of the stuff that I experience beingin all white spaces really kind of led
me into this work of just wanting tocultivate awareness, you know, decrease
the biases, like make people aware thatwe are really dehumanizing and unkind
and that we're living in You know, I saylike white supremacy is like, my friends
are just like fish, like swimming in thatwater, like they don't know it's there.

(33:17):
Yeah.
You know, a lot of peoplejust are not aware.
And so it's like, I'm not mad orangry, but I would like to cultivate
some awareness that we're livingin some systems that are harmful.
And that has really informedwhat I wanted to do.
Mindfulness is about cultivatingawareness, but with kindness and
compassion, which is which is what I thinkis the greatest healer in the world, you

(33:40):
know, and so it's not, I'm not angry atthe work, but, but I just recognize that.
And I do believe this, that everybodyis, has a really kind heart and
they just have, there's layers ofconditioning then to be unlearned.
So I feel like everything thatI've experienced is on purpose.
So I could do this work of, you know,cultivating awareness and compassion.

(34:04):
Hmm.
Okay.
There's a lot to unpack there.
I don't even know where to start.
I guess when, you know, you were sharingabout like when you were growing up
and being in the situation that youlived in and like, you know, taking on
a lot of like internalized, um, antiBlackness, uh, racism, misogyny, and
all of these things, classism, even.

(34:26):
What?
I guess was it like tofinally start unpacking that?
Because I feel like maybethis is me perceiving these
things or I'm projecting them.
Who knows?
Um, but currently in the world, Ifeel like we are in this very like

(34:46):
tension push pull of what's happeningin the world, culturally, socially,
we think about like justice and,um, reparations and all of that.
I feel like there's like palpable tension.
And I also feel like we experience thiswhen we start to decide to, I guess,

(35:07):
choose to change something in our life.
Um, whether that is your, it could belike, honestly choosing to change your
job or choosing to move to somewhere else.
Or even if we want to go deeper than that,like in the personal development space,
um, choosing to get mindful about, uh,the emotions that you're dealing with,
or, you know, choosing to start unlearninga lot of these harmful conditionings

(35:32):
that we have basically adopted.
Oh, gosh, did I lose my question?
Well, what I guess was, The, thecatalyst to like push you to explore
this, because, I mean, it's scary.
It's really scary, especially iflike, you know, you're, we're all
drinking the Kool Aid and then whenyou don't, when you stop drinking the
Kool Aid, you're like, what the fuck?

(35:56):
Yeah, you know, I think that for me, italways starts and I think for everybody,
really your own suffering, right?
I, you know, still do, you know,experience depression, it comes, it goes.
Um, I was in bad relationships that werereally toxic and I was always kind of

(36:17):
getting that short end of the stick.
Um, so it all started with justme wanting to get to peace.
And then looking at, you know, whatwas preventing the piece from being
a part of my experience at thattime, it was like a poor body image,
my relationship that was reallyvolatile and mainly those two things.

(36:40):
And so just for example, self image,you know, thinking that I'm like fat
or that my lips are too big or thatmy hair is too big or, just any of
those things, like getting from thatplace to acceptance and learning
takes a learning wall and curiosity.
My lips are too big compared towhat, you know, like, where did

(37:01):
I get the idea of like, where didthat standard of beauty come from?
And that just curiosity.
I think gives you and when youland at the conclusion, right?
Like, Oh, I think that my lips aretoo big because there's a standard of
beauty that's very American and white.
And I just don't fit that.
And I grew up around it.
And so I've kind of internalizedthis feeling of being ugly and

(37:24):
it comes down to that, you know?
And so when I recognizelike, Oh, that's why.
I feel that way.
It's not me.
It's not anyone's fault.
It's kind of just thecultural conditioning.
I kind of I get compassion for myselfand then other people that might
be experiencing the same thing.
And so I think if everybody can justpay attention to their own suffering

(37:46):
and get curious about it, then it, itunleashes this compassion and kindness
towards other people automatically,because once you could get soft with
yourself and nurture, then you kind ofease up the judgment on everybody else.
And I think that's what everybody shoulddo instead of trying to figure out.

(38:08):
You know, you know, that person's racist.
Let me go teach and talk about,you know, why they're that way.
And let me tell them aboutlike the history and whatever.
Truly, that person is full of fear,unhappy and, you know, anger is
just the cover for being scared.
Yeah.
You know, being scared isbecause you're believing things.
That main may or not be in the,probably not in the environment

(38:32):
and believing things thataren't true about other people.
And so like, once we get curious aboutour anger, which is really the fear,
and then there's like a soothing anda compassion and a nurturing that
happens, it kind of like the angerdissipates and it's compassion.
Oh, well, that's not true.
Like you understand what I mean?
So I think whatever everybody, ifthey just paid attention to their own

(38:54):
suffering and healing, whatever that is.
Anxiety about your family, yourrelationship, the stress, the depression,
the whatever it is you're experiencing.
Everybody just mind thebusiness, man in the mirror.
And then I feel like then we could startto recognize each other's humanness.
You know, and we kind of let go ofthat idea of like, we're all supposed

(39:16):
to be like, perfect, the standard ofbehavior and you know, wealth and beauty.
And we could let that go.
Because I think there's a lotof you know, people are harsh to
themselves and then judge others.
Oh yeah, totally see that.
I think that's where a lot of it, whatyou mentioned about like being scared
and then like anger is the thing thatcovers like feeling fear or being scared.

(39:41):
I think it's very, very true.
I mean, I know I've experienced itwhere I was scared about something
and then it kind of like came outin anger and frustration because I
didn't realize that I was worriedor Kind of just like insecure.
Yeah, well, it's just like ifyou're driving and you're driving
and everything's fine, and thensomebody cuts you off, you're like,
fucking asshole, you're pissed.

(40:03):
But it's really because you'rescared that you almost died.
Yeah.
You know, like, if that's, that'sreally the best example, I'm
pissed because you almost Freakingkilled me and I don't want to die.
I'm scared of death.
You know, and so all anger is just fear.
Fear of fear of losing something.
Yourself, a person, anobject, a material, status.

(40:24):
That's all.
Anger is just a cover for that.
So, um, I think we're angry becausewe're fearful that we're losing.
And that is definitelysomething to explore.
I know I always ask everybody atthe end of this, uh, episode to
share a journaling prompt, butI'm going to do a little caveat.
If you want whoever's listening,maybe to explore where anger is
coming from, if you are experiencingit, but I do have another question.

(40:47):
So regarding back to like personalstories, do you think there is power
and weakness in personal stories or.
Is there a thing as like weaknessin a personal story or not?
Cause I do feel like sometimes peopleI'm thinking about it more from like a
personal branding thought leadership pointof view, um, which is what we do with our
clients at The Quirky Pineapple Studio.

(41:09):
They feel like sometimes theirpersonal stories end up sounding
weak or it positions them as weak.
Do you think there is like weaknessin person, like sharing your personal
story, or is it all like power?
It's all power.
I think that like, if you can get realand talk about your story with, without

(41:29):
the shame, then that's a true power,you know, like accepting that, you
know, I think the victimhood of it,that's where people feel like weak.
Like I could say, you know, we grew uppoor and I was like black and a, but
there's also good things that happen.
Obviously not the racism.
I didn't need that.

(41:50):
You know, like I, I'm good.
Yeah.
Let that one slide.
But being, I could lookto the positive, right.
And that's what you have to do.
So if you don't do that, thenwe're like sliding into victimhood.
But we could say like, whathave I learned from this?
Just like life, like life is our teacher.
Whatever you're experiencingis a moment of teaching.

(42:12):
And so what is the mostskilful way to handle this?
How can I take care of myself during this?
And if you're learning throughyour life, life is just going
to get better and better.
And so there was no shame in telling yourpersonal story if it's hard and difficult
because it depends on where you are.
If you're still in this like victim modeof, you know, things being out of your,

(42:35):
your control, which they are most ofthe time when you're, you know, young
and a kid, if you're still in that asan adult, then you don't give yourself.
The, you know, the agency to make choicesand that's- that's not, that's false.
That's not true.
You do now.
So I always think it's powerful ifyou could keep it real, no matter
how, how difficult it was because thepower isn't like how you have overcome

(43:01):
or your lens on- it, lens on it.
What did that mean?
Where did I, what did I grow?
What did I learn?
How am I different?
And so I experienced a lot of racismand misogyny and a lot of othering.
But now I'm like a people person.
I'm really comfortable in conflict.
Um, I have an awareness.

(43:21):
I have a kindness.
I have a compassion.
If someone's like in the cornerand they're feeling left out,
like there's an alert system thatgoes on, like I'm an inquirer now.
There's so many things that werechallenging about growing up that
really benefit me as an adult nowbecause I was learning how to manage
Those circumstances at that time, oreven not at that time, but as an adult

(43:42):
being like, well, I should have donethis and I should have done that.
So yeah, the dirtier, the better.
I think the story, the more difficult,the better, as long as you're
authentic and what you learned orhaven't learned or still learning.
I'm still learning a lot.
I have something that you shared.
I think Made me think about someof the conversations I have with my
therapist about like, Oh, cause likewe're working through some stuff where

(44:04):
like we're pulling from my childhoodor like, you know, all of these things.
And something that she shared was like,well, it doesn't make sense to fully blame
because like, you know, maybe, maybe somepeople knew what they were doing, but
most of the time people kind of just.
Don't know what they're doing.
Um, this is not to say not keepingpeople accountable or like taking

(44:28):
responsibility for their actions,but it's also, it's like a duality.
It's like, it's not either, or it's alot of like, and also, and I think that
also is kind of what we were talkingabout earlier in this conversation about
like the palpability of that tension.
Cause like, of course youwant to blame you want to be
like, did they fucking sucked?

(44:48):
Like my life sucks because of you.
Um, if I didn't listen to you, I wouldhave been like living it up when in
reality it's, Oh, you know, maybe theywere doing the best that they could.
And you also have to takeresponsibility to say, Oh, I also
could have chose differently.
And that's where likethat uncomfortableness,
I think always creeps in.

(45:09):
Cause I can feel it right now in mychest, like just talking to you about it.
I'm like, Oh.
It is an uncomfortable feelingbecause it's like, Oh, I
have to take responsibility.
Like I didn't do what wasbest for me in that moment.
And I want to blame someoneand I can blame myself.
But then what am I goingto do when I blame myself?

(45:30):
Like what happens after?
Like, I got to give myself compassion.
Like I got to, you know.
Give myself that tenderness andlike that softness of you did what
you thought was right at the time.
When I teach compassion, which I think islike the most difficult thing for people
like we do not let ourselves off thehook in that conversation that I had like
a year ago where I said like somethingstupid, like, It'll like pop up in my head

(45:53):
still and I'll be like, oh, you idiot.
Like, so this compassion work isreally important because there's
no learning without compassion.
You know?
I always use the example of likea baby, like when you're teaching,
like, and we're all like, like,let's give ourselves a break here.
Like we're all babies, like trying tolearn how to Get through this life in

(46:13):
a way that gives us the things thatwe want freedom, peace, happy, joy,
whatever, but we're babies in thisjourney, learning how to walk through it.
And so if there was an actual babylearning how to walk, which is
like age appropriate for a baby,and this is age appropriate for us
learning how to do what we're doing.
If the baby fell down,learning how to walk.

(46:34):
It would, I would sayencouraging things: good try.
You know, let's try again.
I would hold your, hold the baby'shands and then I would let it
go and be very gentle becauseI know that's how people learn.
That's how humans learn.
If the baby falls down, I'm notlike, you fucking stupid baby.
Oh my.
Get the hell up and you know, get to it.

(46:55):
Like that's not learning.
Like that, that is going to make thebaby not want to get up and sit down and
cry some more because of that energy.
And it's the same thing for us.
We need to be the parents ofourselves and give ourselves that
compassion, which is difficult.
You know, you don'tknow where you're going.
You fell down, but easy up, you know,like you dust your dust yourself off.

(47:19):
It's okay.
Like, here we go again.
And like this real gentlelearning and kindness.
As we fall and as we get up andthis is how we grow, you know,
so the compassion is everything.
And I think that's likethe missing ingredient.
We'll fuck up and then we'll be like,okay, we got to figure something else out.
And then we're like onto the next thingwithout doing that, like nurturing

(47:41):
thing where it's like, we're dustingourselves off and like, Ooh, that
was a tough little, little thing.
What did I learn?
Okay.
I have to hold onto the rail here,like while I'm going, you know?
And so compassion.
It's everything, everything, everything.
It's the, it's the missing ingredient.
I, I totally agree.
I feel like, I mean, cultivatingcompassion, I'm still working on it.

(48:02):
I, in some days I'm like a lot betterthan others, but I definitely feel like
that compassion piece helps a lot becauseone, it gives me hope that I can continue.
It also like.
With more compassion I give tomyself, it doesn't like unwaver my
faith, I guess I have in myself.
And then also with the compassion,it kind of is like what you said

(48:26):
about like parenting myself, I'mgiving myself like that love that,
you know, I need at this moment.
And right now, I mean, Ilive far away from my family.
So I need that.
I need somebody, me to give me thatlove because I mean, right now as
an adult, it's kind of just me.
Yes.
I have like, you know, my partner andlike friends and all of that stuff.

(48:47):
But at the end of theday, like, dude, it's me.
That's it.
That's me.
It feels so unnatural, especially likeif you're an American to like go easy
on yourself, you know, part of us thatjust wants to like beat us up, you
know, like be ourselves up like, andcompassion feels like you said, like
letting yourself off the hook, but, andit's really like the opposite of what

(49:11):
you naturally would do just because we'reconditioned to be like really, you know,
sectionist, you know, in this culture.
And so like it really feels likecounterproductive and wrong when
you're like letting yourself bemessy and letting that be okay
and forgiving towards yourself.
It's like real practice and likethere's a lot of learning there too.

(49:31):
Like while you're doingit, it's like, Whoa, like.
I am so hard on myself.
I can't even say it's okay.
Try again tomorrow.
Like there's so much resistance in doingthat and so much stuff that comes up.
It's really interesting.
I could just like spend allday with myself being like,
wow, that's interesting.
That's interesting.
Oh gosh, where'd this come from?

(49:53):
Oh shit.
Where did this come from?
Yeah.
There's so much to learn here.
You know, like that's what I'm saying.
Like, You don't need to payattention to anybody else, like
figure out your own shit show.
And then, yeah, and then peoplelearn, you become a vibe, you know,
who are like, in your passion, you'rein your purpose, you're working,
you're practicing self love, you'regrounded, people are just naturally

(50:16):
attracted to your presence, you know?
Oh, you feel so calm, you feel sothat it's like, Oh, no, I'm just like
practicing focusing on my breath.
I'm like, I'm just breathing.
-Breathing, you know, because, butreally it's because everybody's
energy is like so wild.
I know that you have that practice ofjust like calm, compassion, kindness.

(50:36):
Like I think it's great for your business.
Yeah.
It is because people come to us whenthey need help with whatever service
based business they come into youbecause they need something from you.
And if you are a calm presence.
And you're able to focusand give people themselves.
You know, if you give yourselfcompassion, it's easier to
give other people compassion.
Like it's a vibe for business.

(50:58):
I'm not kidding.
Like if you want better business,like start mindful, start practicing.
I'm even thinking like, I mean, I.
I don't have my partner, but I'mlike, Oh, for all the people who
are like looking for a partner andyou were just saying it's a vibe.
I'm like, I think it's a vibe if you'relooking to like couple up, if you
really want to, um, I haven't datedin a long time, but I think that's how

(51:20):
it works these days.
No, it is.
It is.
I think that, like, if you areshowing up as, like, your best,
calm, present, most kindest, like,self loved self, then you are only
gonna attract that kind of person.
Like, someone that this chaotic, crazy,angry energy is gonna be like, oh, like,
you're too, you're too, like, right,too calm, you know, and not needy.

(51:44):
Yes, I was even thinking likeyou don't have space for drama.
And I remember when I was likea teenager, I loved drama.
I was just like inserting myselfin everyone's business because
I was like, I am here to help.
I am here to show you the way,which is like all ego really.

(52:04):
I literally imagine.
Well, not imagine becauseit literally happened.
Um, I can really remembermyself in middle school.
I think I like wrote, um, love notesto two separate people thinking
that I was going to be Cupid.
And I was just like, you know, Iwas a little bit of an asshole.
I think I just like insertedmyself into other people's business
when they didn't really need me.

(52:24):
But it was just like creating this dramaaround, you know myself and like my
worth and like how people see me becauseI wasn't necessarily probably grounded.
I mean, at 14, how can yoube, but I think about it now.
I'm like, Oh my gosh.
Like, I don't know things that arehappening in other people's lives.

(52:45):
And like, when people, youknow, come and they like share
with me, I'm there to listen.
But like, if people want togossip and stuff, I'm like,
dude, I don't, I don't care.
I don't want to hear it.
Like I.
I've now removed myselffrom a lot of the stuff.
Sometimes like when my, I think about mymom and like, if you all know, like Asian
American, I don't know if in JapaneseAmerican, but definitely Vietnamese

(53:05):
American culture, they love their gossip.
Um, they love it.
So when my mom tries and comes in withlike, just gossip, cause she likes it.
I always think to myself, Oh, Ifeel bad that I'm not, that I don't
know anything about my family.
But then at the same time, I'm like,I don't think it's any of my business
to really know unless they tell me.
And that has created so muchpeace and like, it's a dual thing.

(53:29):
So I like feel guilty because I'mlike, Oh, I don't know anything.
Maybe I should knowmore, blah, blah, blah.
But like, It's not really knowingbecause they want me to know.
It's knowing because somebody else kind oflike, you know, whispered it behind like
closed doors and then I have to hold that.
It's a lot of things that you'reholding for other people that I,
I don't really, I don't, right.
I don't wanna hold anything.
Yeah.
Your hands are full.

(53:49):
Yeah, exactly.
Live own shit.
Like I what you said about take careof your own shit show like, I have
my own shit show to take care of.
Like, that is plenty.
And like literally when every,when anybody ever calls me to
like talk shit about someone else.
I always say the same thing.
Well, who am I to talk,you know, like who I'm at?
Like, I've like, I've done embarrassing,shameful, regretful, ridiculous, stupid

(54:11):
things forever, you know, and who am I?
I think it's automatic judgment, like putsyou like above and like, honey, not me.
I just, it just can't be me.
And I think that's what A mindfulnesspractice that's like actually
grounds you because you're in thereality of you and you know, you're
perfect and you know, that's okay.

(54:33):
So the judgment about othersis like, yeah, not there.
Um, okay.
So I, I have a couple more questionsbefore we like wrap up about
reintegrating your body and mind.
And this still goes with,um, the mindfulness practice.
So in your TEDx talk, you sharedabout the what the fuck face,
something that I personally love.
Again, I will link this in the show notes.

(54:54):
So you all can watch it.
It's, it's a really great TEDx talk.
Can I, that's like my question bracket.
Yeah.
I love this
-So can you give us a little bit more information on what is the
what the fuck face and how it canbe assigned to change something?
Absolutely.
Well, we've been talking about itall day, you know, is that sometimes

(55:14):
we are so clouded with the busynessof our life that in our minds, we
don't really know what's happening.
We just have an ideaabout what's happening.
We have thoughts about what'shappening a little bit delusional.
Sometimes a little dilulu.
Oh, yes.
I was just about to say, do you knowabout the dilulu and the true dilulu?

(55:37):
A little dilulu.
But I don't think our, like ourbodies are filled with wisdom.
Like, and I think I've mentionedin the talk, like when we're
sitting down at a computer.
We're about to type something.
I don't have to tell each individualfinger, which where every key is, it
already knows because it's practiced.
Our bodies already interpret experienceand interpret information all the time.

(56:00):
And if we get anxiety, we could feel itbecause there's stress in the environment.
There's something that's notin alignment in our body.
We experience it as anxiety, andthat might mean heart beating,
sweating, a little like raw chest.
There's all these things thatwe experience in our minds.
We not, we might not connect the two.

(56:21):
Oh, I'm anxious.
You're just experiencingthe, the, um, the feeling.
And then without that information,I'm anxious moving about life.
You'll make a lot of mistakesbecause you're not yourself that
time and be like, Oh my God,like something's operating here.
That's going to cloud my judgment andmake me do something that might be
inappropriate or make it harder for me.

(56:43):
So I think using your body,integrating your mind and body
is the best way to make choices.
What am I feeling?
What are the actual sensationsin my body that I'm feeling?
And then with my mind, what isthe reality of the experiencing
that the experience that I'm in?
Or that I'm witnessing that integration,that's how you make choices.

(57:04):
But when you're speaking to someone,I'm just like thinking about
dating, like, just put it out there.
Someone could be talking to you,you know, Oh, I'm this and I'm not.
And I go here and I go there,you know, and you're listening.
To this, your mind might wanna believe allthat, you know, potential mate, boyfriend,
whatever, like, looks good on paper.

(57:25):
But your, but your body mightrecognize this energy as untrue.
Mm.
You know, 'cause it has experiencedpeople being untrue before.
So it's practice just like your,your, your fingers on the keyboard.
Like it's practice.
It knows.
So your face.
Might be like, what the fuck, you know,eyebrows like scowled, uh, eyes squinted-

(57:50):
-like a scrunched up,like a scrunched, like-
like, what the fuck are you saying?
Like, your body will tell you justas much as your mind will, but
we're so head, we're so head heavy.
Um, this culture where we gottalike, think about it, you know,
instead of like feel about it.
So it's like you not oneor the other, but both.
You know what the, like Yeah.

(58:11):
Listen to that.
Be in your body and recognize, oh, myface is like not , not, doesn't understand
the information that's being told to me.
Right?
Yeah.
It is like saying, what the fuck?
To just let that be part of theinformation, you know, not like, let it
make all the decisions, but like, My bodydidn't feel right in that interaction.

(58:34):
I, but in my daughter's 18 and I toldher when she was like little, like when
someone gives you like creepy, like whenI was teaching her about creeps, like
creepy perverts, I'm like, you, whenyou feel uncomfortable, that's the sign.
Like, don't let your nicenessget in the way, your politeness.
You don't want to be rude as girls.
We're conditioned to be nice andpolite and smile and you and okay,

(58:58):
like really, you know, cooperative.
And it might go against whatyou're the uncomfortable feeling
you're experiencing in your body.
And to her, when it comes tothose things, I've always said,
well, listen to your body.
If you're uncomfortable, then youneed to like, don't play nice.
You be polite.
Thank you.
Goodbye.
That's it.
But you don't have to be nice.
You don't have to smile anddo all that and play cakes.

(59:22):
There's like a difference,you know, your body knows.
So just trust your body, tune in andlet it give you some information.
I love that.
Um, I will again.
Link it in the show notesso you can watch it.
Aiko explains it really welland gives some really awesome
examples in her TED talk about it.

(59:43):
And actually, I remember after listeningto your TED talk, I was like, Oh my gosh,
you know, I always used to, people alwaystell me like, Oh, your face says so much.
Like, I'm not very goodat like poker face.
Things kind of just like readoff of my face very easily.
And I used to always feel bad about it.
Cause it was like, Oh, I'm likereacting in a way that like, you

(01:00:04):
know, people don't like, or maybe Ineed to kind of like tone it down.
Maybe I need to like, youknow, play into whatever game.
But I think also what you were sayingabout like reintegrating your body
and mind, I was so separated, I thinkfrom my body and like what it was
trying to tell me that I was just like,okay, mind, mind, mind all the time.

(01:00:26):
And our mind plays tricks on us.
Like mind wants to.
Mind always wants to keep us.
Yeah.
Mine's a little dilulu.
Um, all of us are alittle dilulu up there.
Um, so it's always trying tokeep me safe, which is awesome.
Thank you mind.
But body probably knowstruth like instantly first.
And I'm not saying like what you weresaying, like, don't do one or the other.

(01:00:47):
They definitely need to work together.
And it's not saying like something'sgood or something's bad, but Something's
giving you information and it's our jobto kind of like sit with that and I think
just explore it so that we can make adecision that is aligned with whatever
values we have, or, you know, how we wantto live our lives and all of that stuff
before I would just like ignore facereaction and was like, No, let me try.

(01:01:12):
And it always bit me in the butt.
You know what just happened recently?
And I think it's really importantto recognize what, when something
good happens or when somethingchallenging happens, like what that
actually feels like in that moment.
So I took a test recently andI felt automatically that it

(01:01:32):
was like I, like I failed it.
And then I had this feeling oflike, um, like I was scared.
It was like fear was a little like shaky.
And then I recognized that feelingas like, Oh, that's the feeling I get
when something new is going to happen.
Like I ended up not feelingit, but I ended up passing it.
But it was that feeling.
Oh, like, Something new is happeninglike some there's another part of this

(01:01:55):
and I recognize I had that same feelingwhen I found out that I was moving.
I had that same feeling when Iwas doing this or doing that.
And so recognizing the feeling and beinglike, Oh, that means this, not that.
Like it could have been interpreted asfailure, this, that something challenging,
but then just remembering, Oh, I had thisexperience here, here and here and here.

(01:02:18):
And it meant this.
That's, that's what that means.
Like, so it works both ways, mind andbody, remembering and experiencing.
It's a, it's a whole thing.
Call me.
Everybody if you wanna learn more.
It's a whole thing called mindfulness.
Not like we just didn't talk about it.
Okay.
So I have two final questionsfor you before we wrap up.

(01:02:40):
Something that I always like to closethe conversation with is asking you
another thing about conversations.
Um, is there a nuanced conversation thatyou think we're not having enough of?
I do.
And I, we talked about it thatand or both, you know, there's,
if ever, there's not just one, Imean, obviously there's alternative

(01:03:01):
facts or whatever they call it.
But both things can be true at one time,you know, like I can be, I think that
that's the nuance missing in everything.
And isn't that likewhat nuance like means?
It's like, it is like everythingcould be happening at one time.
I could be happy andscared at the same time.
I could be angry, but still haveaccess to joy in the next moment.

(01:03:24):
Like there's so manythings that are happening.
We, we live in like, what do they call it?
Like that binary where it's like.
Good and the bad andthat's completely false.
It's just it is everything happening atone time and then your your lens on it
like what you choose to believe here whatis going to be the most beneficial for you
and everybody else and you get to choose.

(01:03:45):
It's not good or bad.
And if it's bad, you can changethe lens and make it good.
So everything's both and ornothing's Nothing's one or the other.
That's what I'm learning now.
It sucks.
And it's cool.
Yeah.
Right.
It does suck.
It sucks a lot when you're in situationsand you're like, Oh, I was the asshole.
And I was doing what was best for me.

(01:04:09):
Yeah.
No.
But it's true.
Right.
About how much suffering isin like, if you don't say,
well, that was the best for me.
I'm just an asshole.
Well, that's not true.
You know, both.
You are an asshole.
That's okay.
Both!
I love that.
And actually what you were saying,um, have you seen the movie

(01:04:31):
everything everywhere all at once?
No.
What?
I have not.
Aiko, you need to watch it becausebasically what you were describing about,
like, All possibilities exist at one time.
So this is like multiverse talkingnow and like parallel universe,
but in like a different sense.
So I do think all possibilitiesare we might have to have just like

(01:04:55):
a separate conversation, anotherpodcast episode about the multiverse.
And you all can hear about my likeconspiracy theories around like
multiverse and like parallel universes
-on with it.
But it's true because allthings can exist at once.
And.
No spoilers, but in that movie, itexplores how you can change your lens
to pull on certain things so thatyou can like basically do what's best

(01:05:19):
for you in that moment, in this time.
And then maybe in a different time,you can pull on something else.
And that was like very vague.
But I don't want to give spoilers,but yeah, don't give it away.
But yeah, I understand what that means.
I, that's, I, I believe that to be true.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
I love that.
Okay.
So before we wrap up, I always alsolike to end every episode with either a

(01:05:42):
journaling prompt, exploratory question,or an activity for people to explore
after journaling prompt, exploratoryquestion, or an activity for people?
Yes.
So I was in the shower this morningand I was trying to think about
how to word this correctly, butit's an exploratory question.
Okay.
I'm excited.

(01:06:02):
And it has to do with detachment, evenwhat we were talking about earlier.
I think it was Eckhart Tolle thatsaid it to, like, when I heard
it when I was like 20, but justfor everybody that's beginning to
meditate, I think a great question.
Okay.
Let me get this right or screw it up.
It's okay.
Say you are experiencing, youhave, you're depressed, right?

(01:06:25):
You say, I am depressed.
Who is the I and then whois the one that's depressed?
You know, like you are, there's,there's, there's multiple yous.
There's the observer you and the oneinside that's experiencing all the things.
And so with mindfulness, we becomethe observer of our experience.

(01:06:47):
That's the detachment.
So the question is, when you're sayingI this or I that, which I is operating?
That's my, like, in anything.
I am this, I am that.
Who is the I?
And then who is the observer?
If that makes sense.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah.

(01:07:08):
Who is the observer?
Who is the I?
A lot of the times, like, I am sad.
I'm observing that, butthat's not, that's not me.
I'm not sad.
I'm just observing big eyes,observing little I be sad.
If that makes sense, I meantit's something to like, get
like trip out on a little bit.
A little bit, but I lovethat existential question.

(01:07:29):
So these are great.
So for all the people who wantto explore that, maybe rewind.
Like 10 seconds andthen, um, write it down.
That's something I will be, Ithink, journaling on tomorrow.
Thank you, Iko for being hereand for sharing your story and
sharing all of these tips andinformation around mindfulness.
I, I love talking about thisand I love talking to you.

(01:07:50):
So can you share, um, first, isthere anything that you're excited
about in the upcoming months?
And then where can people reach you?
So, I'm excited about a lot of things.
I'm a part of a mindful writing community.
I, um, guest teach andhost in this community.
It's called A Very Important Meeting.
So, if you are a writer and you needthat community and that accountability we

(01:08:12):
talked about with meditating or writing,the link is in my bio on Instagram.
It's called A Very Important Meetingand we meet every morning at 7 a.
m.
Sometimes I'm hosting,sometimes I'm just in the class.
But it starts off with a 10 minutemeditation and then whoever is
hosting holds the space for an hourwhile you get your writing done.

(01:08:35):
So you could be writing content, you couldbe writing your book, your article, your
essay, your poems or whatever, but it's agreat space to meditate and then journal,
write, do whatever with a community.
So I'm really excited about that becauseI aspire to be an author one day.
And I feel like with this community,that's how I'm going to get it done.
Like as a practice, I'm also excitedthat I'm moving close to the beach.

(01:08:59):
Yes.
I'm super excited for you.
Yeah.
And so like, I'm a little in betweenlike this podcast, I'm lost, so what?
And, um, Cassandra, you have that episodeabout starting over and I feel like I'm
kind of starting this new chapter whereI'm like completely out of my divorce.
I'm moving from like ourfamily house to my own house.

(01:09:21):
And like, so it's a newenergy, like a new beginning.
It's by the water and it's feelslike very exciting and new and scary
both and both new and exciting andcompletely terrifying at the same time.
So I'm excited about that.
And, um, also, um, I live on Instagram.

(01:09:41):
Like I tried being on likethreads and all the other things.
I'm just like not cozy anywhere else.
Are you on TikTok?
I consume a lot of TikTok.
I only create sometimes.
Okay.
So I'm not on TikTok.
I meant.
Like, I was just curious if youare, cause you have so much content.
I'm like, are you?
It should be on TikTok.
I've talked about it with peopleand they're like, or like,

(01:10:04):
why aren't you on Tik Tok?
I'm like, it just seems likereally overwhelming, like
start like another thing.
Anyways, besides the mindful writingcommunity, I also do like I'm a meditation
teacher and I do like personal coaching.
So if you wanted to like practicemeditating with me and get coached
to get your own practice going,I have that everything's on my

(01:10:24):
link tree in my Instagram profile.
I have like, you know,link tree, all the things.
And then I'm at http://aikomaesmith.Com.
Um, I do corporate mindfulnessand workshops and bring me into
your job and I'll teach everybodyhow to relax and stay calm.
Stop gossiping by your work environment.
Oh gosh,
I love that.
Uh, no more office politics.

(01:10:45):
Yes.
Yes.
With your mindfulness practice.
Yes.
With this new lens.
So those are all of thethings I got going on.
And then throughout the year, Ialways do like donation workshops
and classes and stuff like that.
Lots of free things.
I love it.
All of that will be linked in theshow notes as well as a lot of the
resources that we talked about today.

(01:11:06):
I think that's it.
I go, thank you so much forjoining and for sharing.
So good to see you.
I am excited for everybodyelse, uh, to listen to this.
Well, you've already listenedto it because if you got to
hear it, then we're like done.
Um, so thank you everyone.
And we will see you in the next episode.
Stay fierce fam.

(01:11:27):
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode andthought to yourself, whoa, it me.
I'd love if you could share this withothers, post about it on social media
and or leave a rating and review.
Don't forget to subscribe too.
Want to hang out with me inother areas of the internet?
You can follow me on Instagram@CassandraTLe for brand message and

(01:11:51):
content marketing tips and resources.
Check out my business at@TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.
Stay fierce fam.

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