S1E5: EOS® & Kolbe™ with Kimberly Dyer

Episode Transcript
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Joe Jurec (00:00):
In this episode of the into the storm leaders podcast, we talk about
how people most naturally get shit done.
We leverage the Kolbe system and the sixtypes of working genius and have Kimberly
Dyer, whose certified in both of those,along with being a professional EOS
implementer to tell us her story of howshe was introduced to these systems, how

(00:20):
it's been both freeing and validatingfor her and many of the clients that
she's worked with and how it frees themup to focus more on the type of work
that brings energy rather than stress.
If you've taken things like Myers Briggsand disc and predictive index, look,
there's value in those tools, but thoseare the affective part of the brain.
It's typically your emotion.

(00:41):
Whereas the Kolbe system and sixtypes of working genius tap into the
conative part of somebody's mind.
It's how they naturally take action.
It's innate over your lifetime.
If you've not been exposed tothese in the past, you're going
to want to check out this episode.
If you have, you probably do too.
At the end of it, take a free Kolbe Aassessment, set up some time to review

(01:01):
it with our guests on today's episode,Kimberly Dyer, so that that way you
can ensure you're aligning your workwith your natural strengths and you
better understand your team so thatthat way the next time that you're
putting together a project or a taskforce, you're doing less cloning and
building better balance so that we canget different perspectives, different

(01:22):
action modes and a better result.
Welcome to into the storm leaders, theno BS podcast that ignites leadership
potential and sparks innovation inthe ever evolving business landscape.
We all work in I'm Joe Jurec, yourhost and catalyst for growth joined
by my co host and CultureShoc,senior coach Pete Hansberger.

(01:43):
Together, we embark on a journeyto uncover the strategies,
mindsets, and actions that drivetruly exceptional leadership.
Whether you're an emerging leaderlooking to level up in your career,
or an accomplished executive seekingfresh perspectives, join us as we
uncover inspiring stories and thoughtprovoking insights from proven
leaders, and share practical takeawaysthat enable courageous leadership.

(02:05):
Get ready to charge into thestorm and become a catalyst
for better workplace culture.
Welcome listeners to another episodeof Into the Storm Leaders podcast.
This is one of your hosts JoeJurec and I have with me today
our very own Kimberly Dyer fromCultureShoc I feel fortunate enough

(02:26):
to work with you on a regular basis.
I'm not going to steal any of yourthunder because you've got plenty to
uh to rain down with but I'm superpumped to have you today, Kimberly,
and to introduce our listeners to you.

Kimberly Dyer (02:39):
So hi.
Hi, Joe.
Hi, listeners.
Fun to be here.

Joe Jurec (02:43):
Being the first time that you're here in the studio at Traction
Leadership Center, we want to interviewsuccessful business leaders, have them
share what peak leadership really lookslike to them, a little bit about your
journey, talk about charging into storms,dealing with uncertainty and challenges
and things that are uncomfortable.

(03:05):
And boy, if, if you're going toshare any of the ones I already
know, they're going to be good.
And I'm willing to bet youprobably got a bag full.
Uh, of some others as well, uh, but tokick things off we'll first give you
a chance just to say hi and introduceyourself however you'd like to, and then

(03:25):
we'll get into personal best and business

best.
So for those of youlistening, I'm Kimberly Dyer.
I am here at the CultureShoc team.
My role here is acertified EOS implementer.
Those of you not familiar, of course,it's the entrepreneurial operating system.
It has been my passion to work withleadership teams for about six years now,

(03:47):
just under about 300 sessions so far.
Uh, in addition, I am certifiedin Kolbe, which is what we're
going to talk about today.
And I'm also certified in somethingcalled the working genius, which belongs
to Patrick Lencioni and the table group.

Joe Jurec (04:03):
And I am a fan since we benefit from you being certified in
those and also operate on them ourselves.
That's something we'll get intoare some of those different
dynamics, how we leverage them.
And I'm curious to pick your brain onhow you got into some of those things.
Before we get there and we'll havetime for all of that, uh, let's

(04:24):
talk personal best, business best.
We've not seen each other inthe office in a little bit.
We've both been busy with sessionsand other things going on.
So what's been up?
How's, what's, uh, one thing thatyou would say is share worthy
since we last saw each other?
Uh, in personal life and

business life.
So my personal life since lasttime I saw you was I got to see
all three of my adult children.
I have three kiddos that live in, uh,two in Chicago, one in DC and I have
managed to see all three of them.
I had a great time with eachof them together and separate.
So I was a very proudmom of adult children.
That was a great thing for me.

(04:59):
Awesome.
Uh, business best.
It is quarterly season forso many of our clients.
They're at the halfway mark.
It is just.
I take so much satisfaction, if notpride, in seeing the progress my teams
are making and seeing how they see it.
They're in disbelief the amount ofwork they can get done every 90 days.

(05:22):
One of them said to me recently,this quarter felt like a year
in the level of accomplishment.
So it is, uh, an absolute pleasureto work with teams and give them
the assistance and the guidanceand occasional kick in the butt.

Joe Jurec (05:36):
Love it.
Can relate.
Uh, in a big way, and somethingwould be wrong if I couldn't.
What brought us all togetheris common mission to discover,
engage, and grow leaders, right?
And what's been most gratifying forme is, is the same, working with
leaders and seeing the progress thatthey make and, and just being able
to contribute to that in any way.

(05:58):
And had a session yesterday and somebodyhad a similar comment and their kind of
awe or amazement in the camaraderie thatthis group had built in four months.
Said it feels like we'veknown each other a lot longer.
Well, it's kind of a testament to youcan't fake trust, but you can accelerate
it if you're intentional about it.

(06:18):
Yeah.
Look

back to some of your prior sessions here and how you and
Pete have discussed the speed of trustand how this, uh, program that you all
have created really accelerates that.

Joe Jurec (06:28):
I've been fortunate enough to have lived it, right?
Experienced it first here.
Uh, uh, CultureShoc and something thatI was first introduced to, so I can't
say this was my idea, but in additionto the personal business best, we do
kind of like a vulnerability share.
I guess I should probablysay two though, right?

(06:51):
It would lead with vulnerability.
I should leave with vulnerability,personal best business best.
It's summer.
I've got a four and a half yearold little girl and a two and
a half year old little boy.
Um, Daughters in Karate, kickinbutt, literally and metaphorically.
Uh, loves it.
Got her first stripe on her belt.
Hilarious.
And my son's hand eye coordinationaffinity towards baseball is just

(07:15):
leveling up in major strides.
But every time he hits a ball, there'slike a tracking magnet and it hits
me in the face or, or somebody.
So there's that concern but alsothe hilarity that comes with it.
That's personal best for me, for sure.
Love it.
Uh, and then businessbest is probably this.
It's, we're six, well, we've recordedsix or seven episodes of this podcast.

(07:38):
And generally gotten agood response so far.
And I love the interactions I'mgetting to have and ability to
get to share some of this stuff.
And, uh, that, that's definitelythe business best as of late.
Excellent.
So when we talk vulnerability share, Ilike first job, worst job, family dynamic,
and a challenge that we faced as children.

(08:00):
That had an influence or shaped us.
The reason we like to do this with newconnections, new groups, leadership teams,
first time we're at a conference or ameeting because we work alongside people
sometimes for years without knowing muchabout them and it's often so surface

(08:21):
level that it kind of opens the door.
It's formative impact from thingsthat we experienced as a child.
Uh, and then also just some humor thatoften comes with first job, worst job.
So since I'm leading, I'll go first.
I'll tell you, uh, DairyQueen was my first job.
And while for a couple years there, Icouldn't touch Dairy Queen, I've come

(08:44):
back around where I love it again.
But.
Started working there when I was 14, aweek after I turned 14 because it was
the only place I could at that age.
And the odd thing about that,it was by no means my worst job.
My best man at my wedding was my first GM.
My wife also worked at Dairy Queen.
And we have this DQ crew that hasstuck together 20 years later.

(09:10):
Uh, that, that still stays in contact,gets together, uh, a couple times a year.
End.
That seems almost unheard of.
I tell people that and they're like, what?
Uh, so, uh, how about you?
First job, worst job, you pick.

So first job might speak to the entrepreneurial spirit,
which was in my family, if youwanted something, you had to go
get a job, there was no allowances.
There wasn't any handouts, um,at the time, probably about.
12 or so.
My mom lived in a beautifularea in North Carolina.
We had grapevinessurrounding our property.

(09:45):
So I went out and collected linksand links of grapevines so I could
get my hands on, cut them and shapethem into wreaths, which then I
sold with the bows and ribbons.
I could find literally leftoverfrom Christmas or birthdays.
And then I started taking custom orders.
If someone wanted something tomatch their house, their door.

(10:07):
So yeah, I created door wreathsout of grapevines and sold them.
I didn't know this.
I am not a very crafty person, but I,I, there was things I wanted to do that
is to get some cash flowing in the door.
So that was my first real job,um, that was created by me.

(10:27):
Uh, worst job, if I think backto it now, it was, I was 16.
Worked at a Bennigan's.
I don't even know if they still exist.
Oh, so just your classic fast casual,which probably didn't, the term didn't
exist then also back in North Carolina.
But the, what made it theworst was, my first full day

(10:48):
on the job was Mother's Day.
If you don't, know anything aboutrestaurants, the busiest worst day
on the calendar is Mother's Day.
'cause everyone wantsto take their mom out.
So the kitchen, which iswhere I worked, Um, making
sandwiches, salads, and desserts

Joe Jurec (11:05):
baptism by fire welcome to it.

And I love a hospitality experience because
you are humbled on day one.
You are there to serve each otherin the kitchen to serve the client.
Um, but wow, I had to do some seriousmultitasking really fast that day.
I lasted through the summer.
I was going to ask if you stuck it out.
I stuck it out through the summerbecause in the kitchen, by the way, it's

(11:30):
somewhat air conditioned and in summerwork in North Carolina is really hot.
So I'd rather do that than sit by a pool

Joe Jurec (11:38):
and lifeguard.
And it was up to you to, if you wantedsomething, you had to work for it.
So I get

it.
So in the rest of my life, I've always,um, I hate the words judged, but
assessed someone as to whether or not,have they ever worked in hospitality.
Nice.
Portrait.

Joe Jurec (11:56):
Retail.
Retail and felt that same way.
You have a different level ofappreciation for people in service
industry and just show them more respectand kindness because you realize a
lot of times it's not their fault andthey're humans, so don't necessarily
deserve all your frustration, right?
So many things, but I like that.

(12:16):
I can relate there for sure.
I didn't know.
That your entrepreneurial spiritstarted so young, uh, or that
was one of the first things.
When's the last time you made a wreath?
That's a good question.

Probably a long time ago.
I probably, I decorate themstill because I'm forced to.
My family likes Christmas decorations.
I don't.
Kind of like your Dairy Queen, tookyou a long time to go back to it.
Yeah.
I think I've been, I don'twant to go near wreaths.

Joe Jurec (12:42):
Well, I'll check in each holiday season to say,
like, is it time to reboot this?
You want to do some sort of teambuilding here where we, uh, create
them, you can show us the ropes?
It did make me think ofsomething that wasn't my first
job, but kind of recognize.
At one point in school, I, I didn'tunderstand what I had done, but I

(13:03):
guess I created a ring of, uh, candybar salesmen or candy bar salespeople.
In the lower classmen, like I wasinitially getting these boxes of candy
bars from Marks at a heavy discountand realizing, well, in the cafeteria,
this stuff's so expensive, so sellingit in my, I think it was a junior at
the time or something, I was like,man, I could go a lot further if the

(13:26):
freshmen and sophomore, sophomores were

distributing this.
So you did your MLM program?

Joe Jurec (13:31):
I guess I started a multi layer marketing program in high school, yes.
Um, so some of the sales, uh,jobs that, that came next, uh,
and also some of the affinitytowards more entrepreneurial jobs.
I haven't shared that before,but I guess what you made me
think of that connection as well.
It's like, what was my first,or a into entrepreneurship.

(13:53):
And then I had a longerhiatus than you though.
I stuck with that, you know, moredairy queen, the more corporate,
uh, side of things for a while.
But I know you did as well.
I did.
You want to tell us alittle bit more about.

That was right after college.
Um, it was time to get a real job.
Um, part of my family has owned amanufacturing company since before
I was born and a lot of familymembers are allowed to step into it.
I looked at it and said, no, um,I really want my family to be my
family, not a board meeting, notto be colleagues or coworkers.

(14:27):
And so I was fortunate enough, Iwas invited to join, um, a fortune
200 company, got some extraordinarytraining at a very young age and a lot
of responsibility at a very young age.
Uh, but corporate structure is veryrigid, uh, very lockstep, but I was
gifted a lot of, uh, opportunities.

(14:47):
I called them interim entrepreneurialopportunities because it was still
within a corporate structure.
The culture at this company wasabout continuous improvement.
What can we do better?
What can we do less of?
What can we save money doing?
And that was like a sweet spot.
So we had a lot of freedom to gofind better ways of doing things.
And so at the time, I was taskedwith finding a way to improve our

(15:13):
inventory, both, and it started withfinished goods and then it Of course,
naturally went into, well, whatcomes first will come before that.
So the whip had to be taken care of asa work in process or work in product.
And then raw, what the heck wasgoing on with our raw materials?
So that became something else Iworked on for a number of years.

Joe Jurec (15:31):
Did it tap into something like your,

yeah, I always want, I just like making things better
sometimes to my own detriment.
Am I satisfied with done or perfect?
So I, that's a whole othersession we can get into.

Joe Jurec (15:48):
We'll probably scratch the surface of it a little bit when we
talk Kolbe in different action modes.
And I know we have, uh, anaffinity to do things or get
stuff done in a different manner.
I'm sure I drive you nutssometimes with that, but.

But I drive you

Joe Jurec (16:01):
nuts with my stuff.
And because we talk about it openly, we'veidentified it, it gives us a language.
I think that, that helps us.
You know, we're, we're better togetherand have a stronger connection

to balance.
One of the things we'll really dive intois how our Kolbes, our natural Kolbe A's
are really great puzzle pieces to gettingcollaboration and productivity better.

Joe Jurec (16:23):
Before we go down the Kolbe rabbit hole, uh, it's not a rabbit hole.
It's something that by design, Iwant to spend some time talking about
today cause I, I think there is suchvalue to it and you have such crazy
level expertise and stories in it.
You've mentioned family a couple of times.
Yep.
Uh, those are your personal best.
That was, it was a motivatingfactor for the work that you did.

(16:46):
One of those first three questionsin order to peel back layers, get
to vulnerability is family dynamic.
Tell us a little bit about, uh,what, what, what is shareworthy?
What is the high level,like, drive for you?
You mentioned you have three kids, butjust give us a better understanding
of your family dynamic and how that.
That's an impact on who you are.

Sure.
So I, mostly it's kind of origin story.
It felt normal to me.
It's all I ever knew, but myparents divorced when I was tiny.
I have no memory of them being anintact family, but I had the most
amazing, like Wonder Woman role model,the mother, uh, but she had to make
a lot of hard decisions, hard choicesto be the breadwinner and raise two
children on her own, my brother and I.

(17:27):
Um, so she was gone a lot.
So independence wasexpected at an early age.
So using that as a, a kind of a steppingstone or a touchstone, um, when I
became a mother I knew I wanted tobe what I was missing, what I needed.
So my children always knew from thetime they were little that I was.

(17:51):
I had their back.
Not to rescue them.
I, I let them fall and failonce in a while, but, I have
always been available to them.
And I'm still, as adults, I know they cantext me with some business question, some
personal question, I was always around

Joe Jurec (18:06):
for them if they needed me.
You hit on a couple things therethat this was a three hour podcast.
I'd love to open up each one of thembecause I think they do naturally fit
in so well with leadership and thingsthat we talk about with letting.
Letting them fall sometimes and,modeling yourself, not just after the
strengths around you that you saw, buteven the things, the pains that you

(18:28):
felt, realizing, want to make sure thatmy children don't feel that way , that
that's something I can provide them.
And we argue sometimes when we talkpeak leadership about, do you grow more
through having that mentor at your side,guiding you along the way or through the
adversity that comes with the ladder.

(18:49):
Right.
And I think.
If you have a learner mindset, youlearn from all of it, you grow from
all of it, but absolutely on my end,uh, family dynamic, I, I used to
think it was really large families.
It's like Italian family Sundaydinners with consistency.
And then I met my wife and herfamily is 18 times the size of mine.

(19:14):
I was like, Oh, this is what a, a bigfamily is like, but you know, I was
born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio.
My family's been here for a while andmy parents got divorced at a young age.
I think it was three.
So I had the benefitand like the advantage.
My mother and I lived with my grandparentsand they had such influence on me.

(19:39):
I'm so grateful for them.
They passed a couple years ago,but, uh, to live with them until
I was adult and I moved out.
I was around 18 and now having, Imentioned I have two kids, my wife, Sarah
and I have been together 20 years, marriedsince 2016 and those things absolutely

(20:02):
shape and influence all that I do.
And taken into the third one thatfits nicely, childhood challenge.
I'll hit this one first then,kick it back over to you.
I think that that the separation divorceat a young age absolutely was an obstacle
or something that I didn't fully realizethen, or until years later, some of

(20:23):
the impact that it might have had.
And while I absolutely recognize thebenefit of getting that influence
from another generation as well, andjust more accessibility and closer
relationship with my grandparents byliving with them and my mother, and
still connecting with my father, youknow, getting closer over the years.

(20:44):
I, in recent memory, kind of picked upon one of my biggest skill gaps as a
leader was that I had a hard time withgiving really, really direct criticism.
I was almost a people pleaser andhad that peace at all cost affinity
because Of that conflict at a young age.

(21:05):
I just wanted everyonearound me to be happy.
I wanted, to make people smileand that high concern for others.
Think about what they'refeeling almost to a fault.
And I did eventually kind of peel backlayers and connect the dots there.
But as a child, I was the only child.
So just.
Wanting to always have friends around,wanting to, uh, have a sibling, and

(21:29):
just that, that time with parents.
I think that was a hurdle thatI'm sure many people can relate
to, that I later recognized.
Like, wow, wouldn'tchange it for the world.
Like, so much good came from it, andhappy that I learned what I did and
grew the way I did because of it.
How about you?
Childhood challenge, something that shapedyou, had a big influence on who you are.

(21:52):
Shaped is

the, uh, appropriate word, I suppose.
Um.
So back to being a, just imagine a 16year old, I've got a new license now
I'm in a very competitive high school.
And, uh, I'm in a pretty horrific caraccident, like lots of things broken,

(22:16):
including face, knees, et cetera.
Um, coming out of recovery, a coupleof days later, a nurse comes in
and says, sweetheart, I certainlyhope you're smart cause you're
never going to be pretty again.
Oh, uh, I wasn't really sure howto respond to that one, but I, at
that moment I thought, well, I thinkI'm pretty smart, but I got better

(22:39):
double down on this right now.
So I have been a.
Uh, self taught, gotta get ahead, basedon that one pretty insensitive comment.

Joe Jurec (22:50):
Wow.
You don't, like, findyourself not pretty, right?
Like, that's...
I,

from that moment on, I was like, it doesn't matter what I look like.
I, I mean, I've been toldboth sides of that, but...
Wow.
I wanted and needed to focus on my

Joe Jurec (23:04):
intellect.
It comes through.
I have a feeling it may have anyway, butthere was, like, a chip on your shoulder.

Oh, yeah.
That...
Yeah, well, you, I mean, think about youraverage vapid, self centered 16 year old.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm familiar.
So, that's, uh, that was mine.

Joe Jurec (23:22):
Wow.
I love this.
I, I didn't know that, uh, about you.
And...
It's funny, we've worked together forabout a year and a half now and just
pausing, being intentional and askinga couple questions like that, it, it
does, it just forms closer connections.
Absolutely.

We teach this so much with our teams and both
of our types of sessions we do.
And when you want someone to betruthful or vulnerable with you,
you've got to start it first.
Set the

Joe Jurec (23:51):
tone.
Leaders go first.
Otherwise, it won't be as.
Sincere, genuine, right?
Because , you haven'topened the door for it.
Much more willing to...
Return, whether it be criticism, whetherit be openness and vulnerability,
if your leader does model it.
I love having these discussions,having questions that we ask.

(24:11):
Things that we keep in our kindof tool bag, just things that
we, we think to and pull out.
But knowing the person in front of youis always most important in reading
the interaction that you're having.
So I want to make sure we carveout enough time here for the
many things I think listeners canbenefit from your sharing about.
So let's talk Kolbe.

Let's talk about Kolbe.

\ Joe Jurec (24:34):
Kick that off how you'd like to and tell our listeners.
What's Kolbe?
Why do they care?
, how is it gonna actually benefit them

in any way?
So the majority of people thatof course listening, maybe a few
of us looking at our faces, Kolbeis K O L B E, not C O L B Y.
It is a woman's last name.
Her name is Kathy Kolbe andshe is the futurist, inventor,
theorist that created Kolbe.
And, uh, I have the greatprivilege, great gift have been

(25:02):
trained by Kathy and her team.
I was, uh, I was recently said it wasa humble brag, but, uh, it is truly
a privilege to be in her presence.
She's just full of wisdomand also generosity.
She shares so much about it.
So Kolbe on a high level, uh, is anassessment and we can talk more about the

(25:23):
ones that are most commonly known in ourworld, especially for the entrepreneurs.
It might be disc.
Uh, Myers Briggs, Predictive Index,Culture Index, Strength Finder.
So they're all wonderful.
They all tell yousomething about yourself.
The reason I chose to get certifiedin Kolbe is Kolbe is the only one
that tells You, how you take action.

(25:47):
And for me, that made all the lightbulbs go off because you can have
all the personality assessmentsor intellectual assessments.
But how you take action meansproductivity, efficiency,
communication, procrastination.
No doubt.
And Kathy's way of teaching simplifies it.

(26:08):
And as you and I teach, you know, our EOSwork and our, our coaching work is when
you can boil it down and simplify it.
It's more readily applicable.
You don't have to have a Ph.
D.
in this.
You don't have to sign up for 700 hoursof coursework to be able to use it.
So backstories, I was certified inKolbe four or five years ago, forgive

(26:29):
me, I can't remember the exact date.
I was actually introduced to it becausebeing an EOS implementer, it's required
when we go through our training,EOS does a Kolbe A on all of us.
So we know who we naturally are onan A, Kolbe A assessment stands where
there's others I'll dive into in a bit.
Mm hmm.
Um, getting my results was a, such agreat day for me because I looked at it.

(26:53):
Read my results.
And then there's also anaudio file that comes with it.
And it's Kathy explaininghow wonderful we each are.
And for anyone who's never taken theirKolbe A, what you'll find when you get
your result is, first of all, you getcongratulations, you got a perfect result
because in Kolbe, we are all perfect.

(27:13):
But unfortunately the world and our jobsand our, our expectations and obligations
don't let us be perfectly who we are.
So in a.
The way we define freedomis to be yourself.
And that's how we define success in Kolbe.
So getting my results, which I aman eight, six, four, two, and I'll

(27:34):
go through what that all means.
Um, by definition in Kolbe, that meansI'm a strategic planner and you've
known me for about a year and a half.
You probably shook yourhead and go, Oh yeah,

Joe Jurec (27:44):
that's her.
I'd say that's fairly accurate.
Can you real quick though, you hit onthe, how you define success in Kolbe.
I want to make sure thatstands out and was clear.
Certainly it's

freedom to be yourself, which means taking action, doing
things the way you would naturally,not how someone's told you to do it.
Yeah.
Not how you've always done it in thepast because of your natural inclination.
It's not how you're doing it.
You're going to feel frustrated,fatigued, maybe ticked off.

(28:12):
The easiest example is if we've got thecameras rolling, Joe, pick up the pen with
your dominant hand and write your name.
And we see Joe using his right hand andregardless of how legible his handwriting
is, that is his natural way of doing it.
Now, Joe, please indulgeme by using your left hand.

Joe Jurec (28:35):
I love this.
It doesn't mean I'm practiced in a,in any way, but I have introduced it.

So this is a simple, simple way of defining
your freedom to be yourself.
Your natural inclination, your M.
O., modus operandi is?
You're striving when you pick upyour right hand, and you could
do it, and you probably havedone it with your eyes closed.
Now when you do it with your non dominanthand, your unnatural way, harder.

Joe Jurec (29:01):
It's frustrating.
You gotta think through it.
Even though I've done it a coupletimes when introducing that quick

exercise.
So that is the most simple way ofdefining what a Kolbe helps us understand,
your natural way of taking action.
It's not that you

Joe Jurec (29:15):
can't do it.
No.
Right?

If you spent all day writing with your left hand, you'd be
so fatigued, so frustrated, the resultswouldn't get any better probably.
It

Joe Jurec (29:27):
took me longer, I had to think harder, and the
result still kind of sucks.
Yeah.

So now apply that into your job, anyone's job who's listening.
If you have to do something in anunnatural way for eight hours a day.
You're going to use up all yourenergy doing something less
productive with less really stellar

Joe Jurec (29:50):
results.
And sometimes it just doesn't make sense.
Like you're banging your head against thewall because maybe you've had a history
of being really excellent at what you do.
And all of a sudden there's this variablethat you don't quite understand and we
often attribute it to the humans on theother side it was liberating for me when

(30:13):
I took the Kolbe for the first time, andI've always been kind of an assessment.
I Seek

them out, but let's talk about yours.
You're a results very different than mine.

Joe Jurec (30:24):
They're they're pretty different.
Yeah, I think prior to KolbeI'd be like, yeah, we just don't
necessarily work well together ordon't get things done the same way.
And like, I was certified in predictiveindex and other things and built
programs around it that wouldn'thave really told me why that is.

(30:46):
So I guess , you tell me what,between your eight, six, four,
two, and my five, three, nine, two.
Yeah.

Your five, three, nine, two, and my eight, six,
four, two, imagine, um, I liketo look at it this way, two sets
of, uh, Birdwings go like this.
They fold together.
So it's a perfect puzzle piece.
So how I naturally take action on anew concept is I do questions to the

(31:16):
point where somebody's gonna rolltheir eyes and probably run away.
But unless they respect me and valuewhat I'm bringing up, my eight in
FactFinder, which is the first mode, Ihave to get a lot of facts and figures,
historical references, validity.
That's where I start.
When you get a new project,hey Joe, go make a podcast.

(31:38):
Let's go.
Your inclination is your quickstart, which is your nine.
That is a risk aversion,risk and uncertainty.
You are halfway down the runway,already got a million ideas ready to go.
No questions asked.
You heard podcast and youenvisioned this room, this
space, the guests, the questions.

(31:59):
I would have caught up with youin about a month after I asked
more questions, interviewed otherpodcasters, did my research.

Joe Jurec (32:08):
Some of that would have been helpful.
Right?
Right.
And was.

It's like a belt and suspenders

Joe Jurec (32:12):
approach.
Cause you, you kind of need that.
You need both.
Happy middle, right?
I, I benefit greatly from slowingdown some of the research,
some of the thoughtfulness.
I now feel confidence in this andrecognize as a strength, I will
drive things forward with speed.

(32:32):
And try to bring them to lifequickly, uh, if not correctly.
Yeah, what we've

discovered here at CultureShoc is when you come up
with a new program, a coaching, um,module, you're great at throwing
everything against the wall.
And then you'll give me the permission,the gift to let me come in and review it.
Not just for spelling errors, orcould we say it differently, or here's

(33:00):
what's already worked in the past.
Or sometimes it's like,Hey, this, this is content.
That probably belongs tosomeone else we'd have to do an
attribution for, but you've got it.
Let's.
Right.
So we have a really good handoff to

Joe Jurec (33:11):
that.
Format, structure, effectiveness, details.
Things I wouldn't have even thought

of.
So back on the higher, higher level,what Kolbe does for teams, most of our,
most of our list is going to be someoneon a team, unless you're a solopreneur.
Kolbe helps you identify the unique gifts,the strengths of the people on your team.
First yourself, then yourcolleagues, your team.

(33:36):
Then, it helps.
Optimize because if we're stuck doingthings that are not in our natural mos
on our natural gifts, we wanna make surewe're optimizing that as much as possible.
I mean, if anybody going through lookingat utilization of their people, whether
they can do it down to the macro level,micro level of how many X per hour.

(33:57):
Mm-hmm.
optimization is key.
Right?
And then it creates alignment.
Are we building?
Do we have the right team?
We can look at what our CultureShocteam looks like with our team dynamics.
And what Kolbe can do when I look atteams is I can help teams understand
what the impact is going to be byremoving a team member or adding

(34:20):
someone both positive and negative.
I

Joe Jurec (34:22):
think that's a big one.
Should I shouldn't be in a research?
Analyst type role, is that, could I

do it?
Yes, Joe, you could be a researchanalyst, however, you would do about
15 minutes worth of work and thenneed to get up and move around.
To Get some energy, becauseall your energy is drained.
I, however, can sit quietly for hours withphysical books, digital files, notepads.

(34:52):
I'm just happy collectinglots of details and data.

Joe Jurec (34:56):
And because I know this about myself, I'm gonna
find work that aligns with.
Because to your point, it canbring you energy instead of stress.
And boy, as I've gotten to...
I know enough about the Kolbesystem to be dangerous and
also to get myself in trouble.
So I lean on you.
Uh, but for me, it has really helpedbe clear and honest and unapologetic

(35:22):
about here's what I'm good at.
These are the things thatI should be leveraged for.
These are the things I shouldn'tbecause I'm not trying to right
with my left hand all day.
I...
I don't...
I want to deplete every bit of thefinite amount of energy I have by
noon, or then for the rest of the day,I'm just finding a way to recharge.

If we could just look at it as optimization of human energy.
This doesn't talk about talent.
It's not talking about yourintellectual skill sets.
We clearly have those.
But this is your energy.

Joe Jurec (35:55):
For those other assessments, the ones that people may be familiar
with or more familiar with, maybeusing Myers Briggs, DISC, can
they be used in conjunction?
How would you recommend, like if somebodyis using Kolbe or considering it to
enhance their hiring and placement, teamfit practices and things like that, but
they already have something in place,is it, don't use it anymore because now

(36:17):
Kolbe replaces it or is there a way to.

No, I really like to look at it as a, another leg to the stool
or another, another element of who thisperson truly is because we're not flat.
We're not, we're nottwo dimensional, right?
So company ABC isinterviewing a candidate.
They're looking at theirintellect and their experience.

(36:42):
Mm hmm.
So that's somewhere riddledon the resume, right?
Because they've got a skillset they're matching to.
So that's where maybe an SAT, ACT, orgraduate level is assessing that, program,
so they've got credentials, right?
That's your intellect.
Okay.

Joe Jurec (36:59):
Kind of your cognitive ability.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Now, say this

Briggs.
Fabulous assessments.
These typically are assessingyour affective, which is basically
your values, what motivates you.
And this comes from experience exposureto family, to other companies, and some
internal what's, what's driving you rightnow, the third leg of the stool could

(37:23):
be the Kolbe, which is your conative.
And yes, it will getautocorrected to cognitive.
Conative means simplythis, how you take action.
So if you've got a view of a candidate.
fit your culture that you're affective.
They fit the job requirements, right?
Your intellectual, your cognitive.
Now, how are they going to takeaction and get things done?

(37:46):
Here's your conative.

Joe Jurec (37:48):
I can see that being helpful.
I've lived it.

So we find is when I meet with clients that I've
said, Oh, I don't need Kolbe.
I've got some otherbrand of an assessment.
I'm like, great.
Is it working for you?
Are you truly using it andnot weaponizing it, right?
We don't want to have somebodypigeonhole because just there.
Uh, Uh, whatever brand ofassessment it might be.
That extreme.
Mm hmm.
Same thing with Kolbe.

(38:12):
You and I are extremes and are Kolbe's.
We can't just say, ugh,Joe's a quick start.
He'll never get anything done.
And, you know, Kimberly's a fact finder.
She's just going to driveus nuts with questions.
No, we don't want to weaponize that.
I do

Joe Jurec (38:23):
throw that precursor out there about not weaponizing
it, because of course it can be.
No.
When people look at it and find, then,Ways to make new excuses about things.
Here

comes the bias.
Right.
So this is helping us to limit the bias.
Right?
For sure.
So how you use it in a work setting,it can be used for recruiting,
attracting and retaining to best talent.
Kolbe does also offersomething called RightFit.
Uh, that is where we can look atyour ideal candidate pool, matching

(38:52):
them to your job specific needs,and we can actually grade your
candidates, uh, as to who's going tobe a best performer in your teams.
It takes a little bit more datathan one or two data points,
but it really does work well.
As I had mentioned before, it can helpif you already have your Kolbe's on a
team, we can look at what's going tohappen if we introduce a new person

(39:15):
to the team and what their uniqueKolbe's going to be, how it's going
to impact it positively or negatively.
And you and I've talked about how thereare two different ones we look at.
It's called synergy.
We're striving towards idealsynergy, a team that's got
great balance of all differentattributes, different parts of Kolbe.
And there are teams that suffer becausewe tend to hire people exactly like us.

(39:40):
Right.

Joe Jurec (39:41):
This is the piece Kimberly that has been the most tangible, the most
applicable for me is looking at the teamsynergy or team dynamics and how if I'm
building a plane and then need to flythat plane pilot and the engineer probably
have some different action modes way ofgetting stuff done if I hire only pilots.

(40:06):
Because I'm cloning myself, andthat's who I am at the executive
team, I'm probably going to misssome steps, and that plane's going to

crash.
Right.
And you've mentioned thegreat words, cloning.
In Kolbe, we call it conative cloning.
If we have an entire team, or a majorityof a team, that are nearly identical in
their action modes, They're going to runinto some issues, some challenges, um,
example is I was working with a team thatwas the majority were initiating, they
take action first, with Fact Finding.

(40:35):
Me, my eights.
So ten people on a team.
Eight of them begin with fact finding.
They're going to get into that analysisparalysis, long meetings, really long
meetings that don't go away anywhere.
Or, I mean, there's going to be somegreat innovation, but they have to
know when to stop innovating andtake action and start implementing.

(40:57):
So what happens there when I seethis type of scenario with or
without a Kolbe, I'll say, Hey,you know, how many new innovations
have you come up with this year?
A hundred.
How many of you innovated?

Joe Jurec (41:08):
I'm guessing you'll sometimes have , a need recognized where even
that same group, somebody's goingto flex to, uh, an action mode, uh,
strengthen area that the group needs,even if it's not their natural way

of doing.
Absolutely.
Someone's going to say enough.
We've got to decide.
And that's where typicallymy quick starts come in.
You, Pete, Ron, Jim.
We've got a lot of quicksand

Joe Jurec (41:41):
around here.
We have this entrepreneurial operatingsystem based company and we work
with a lot of entrepreneurs andyeah, it can get the best of us if
we don't have our, our Kimberly, ourLiz, our Gotta have a good balance.
And other team members, the balance,when, when there isn't that balance
and somebody has to flex over to coversome of these areas, they burn out.

Yes.
They can get uncomfortable

Joe Jurec (42:06):
fast.
Because it is that writing with yourleft hand all day, that conative stress
that they get from having to do somethingthat's just not so natural for them.
Do you have any stories?
Where you're working with the team,because between Kolbe and EOS and
everything else you've done, I'm surecredentialized further by talking about

(42:27):
numbers of executive teams that you'veworked with and things, it's implied.
Is there one that stands out wherethere was a missing, missing method?
Right, we

call it missing method in Kolbe.

Joe Jurec (42:40):
You realize there's nobody on this leadership team with high
quick start or nobody with high followthrough or an initiating factor in fact
finder and how, like when you insertthat missing puzzle piece, do you have
a story that comes to mind where itwas that aha realization and then wow,

(43:05):
positive change when you fixed it?

Very similar to the start story I was beating with a team
that had all initiating fact finders.
They loved questions.
They wanted details.
They were just iterating going in circleafter circle after circle until we
brought in someone who was initiatinga quick start, who just kind of looked
left and look right and said, why arewe still going down this as we love

(43:29):
rabbit holes, put an end to it becausethey were also lateral on leadership.
There was a level of respect andthere was an understanding that.
This person was correct.
So injecting a different Kolbe strengthchanged the dynamic of the team.

Joe Jurec (43:46):
I understand why this is coupled with EOS, the Entrepreneurial
Operating System, for new implementers.
And how that's , that you were introducedto it because it's a lot of emphasis on
right person, right seat, building wellrounded teams that balance each other.
Somebody can be the right person for anorganization and be in the wrong seat.

(44:10):
And you may notice, maybe there's somebodywho's not in the executive team, but
somebody right alongside it who cancompliment, even if they don't have the.
Cognitive or the, uh, experiencethat you would typically want where
their input can still level up theeffectiveness of that team in a big way?

Yeah, it just takes one look at who's in the room,
the dynamics that you're seeing,and then just let's just borrow
a bit of someone else's strength.
I will say, if you can't do that, if youdon't have this as an option, there's
some artificial things you can do.
Uh, one team I just coached and Isaid, look, you need to set an alarm
clock in your meetings because theywere just spiraling and so just put

(44:58):
the alarm clock on and say, okay,at this point we need to stop.
If you're going down a great aha.
It's just an alarm clock.
You're not going to getoffended if you tell it to

Joe Jurec (45:06):
stop.
Last thing I'll ask on this, and ofcourse anything else you want to share
because I know we'd love to just exposeas many people to this as possible.
So we can leave with that at the end,but you mentioned kind of the, the wings.
of a bird them complimenting each other.
EOS has this visionary integratordynamic, which is a little

(45:27):
unconventional for some, right?
Based on what they would expect.
Uh, accountability chart or, ortypical hierarchy of an organization
to look like as we start to move intoEOS, I think this is a great segue.
Can you talk about the power of that,that visionary integrator combo, but

(45:48):
really why two people with such differentaction modes, what that relationship often
looks like and why it's so important.
So

I, I don't want to.
To say outright, there's an idealKolbe for visionary versus integrator.
I've seen lots of varieties, but somestereotypes do stand the test of time.
So here at CultureShoc, we can just useour own, our own example, our own team.
Our visionary is a nine quickstart, Ron Kaminsky, who comes

(46:22):
up with a thousand ideas a day.
Some are fantastic.
Some we need to set asidewith all due love and respect.
But then we have an integrator and theintegrator, her leading Kolbe strength,
forgive me, I think seven or eight.
And follow through.
She can take the brilliant ideasas the follow through strength

(46:44):
and decide are these systems andprocesses we need, don't need.
And it's a harmoniousbalance that happens.
So, , in EOS speak, we always say thatthe ideal relationship of a visionary
and integrator is called rocket fuel,part of the book, part of the academy.
I always look at them , andthere's some visuals for it.

(47:05):
They're missing puzzle pieces,just like the wing, the
strengths and styles of action.
Very, very different.
But there's that intellectualsocial respect that says.
The visionaries job, their greatest giftto the organization is coming up with
brilliant ideas, big relationships, theintegrators greatest gift is harmoniously

(47:26):
integrating and also pushing backwhen it's necessary to protect what's
right and best for the organization.

Joe Jurec (47:33):
I've come into contact with, we'll call it a couple organizations
where it is just the CEO, the owner, thefounder, and without having that Mutual
respect, that complimentary relationshipand role within the organization.
I have seen people naturally fearspeaking truth to power and lose

(47:57):
sight of or not have a true pulse ofwhat's going on around you because
nobody will challenge you, right?
And that, you said theword harmonious twice.
It probably doesn't feelharmonious in the beginning.

No, it feels pretty awkward and bumpy for a lot of people.

Joe Jurec (48:20):
When I've introduced this, I've talked about the fundamental
attribution error being somethingwhere we attribute issues with
others generally to character flaws.
Alright, somebody cuts you off onthe highway as they're merging and
this guy doesn't know how to drive,probably got some choice words, maybe
even a finger on the hand or two andit's not that one unless it's down.

(48:44):
Whereas, if we do the same thing the nextday or next week or what have you, we're
probably talking about the phone call thatjust came through, how we dropped this,
the person in front of me who slammedon their brakes, the coffee I spilled.
We attribute our own issuesto circumstance and situation.
And I've found so often thatwhen there is that Natural
conflict and way of doing that.
Often a visionary and integratorwould have previously without having

(49:08):
a language and identifying it.
We may have just chalked it up towe don't work well together and
that person has character flaws.
Right.
And we'd from

harmony and rather work for someone who's just like us.

Joe Jurec (49:19):
We'd rather do that cloning and, and hire ourselves.
Right.
Any advice on getting throughthat to the harmony that

you described?
So as I, I mentioned it.
There's not always going to be an ideal,but stereotypes are there for a reason.
Um, if the visionary and integratorhave the understanding appreciation
of the common language of Kolbe,they know it's a clear handoff.
And that's fundamental attributionerrors that you just eloquently

(49:53):
stated, go out the door.
And it's like, I'm not beingdifficult by asking you questions.
I'm not trying to be thatperson, it's just who I am.
It's a service.

Joe Jurec (50:03):
Like I see it, I'm trying to help.
Right.

And we'll often, here at CultureShoc, and we're iterating or
making rocks, the EOS, quarterly goals.
We know that there's going to be anatural strength for you initiating
quick starts to throw a wholebunch of stuff on the whiteboard.
And for those of us, Liz, Amy, myself,to come back and say, Okay, that
needs to be written more specifically.

(50:25):
Mm hmm.
Does it truly fit into our time horizon?
Is this the biggest

Joe Jurec (50:29):
priority?
You said common language.
When you have a common language,all of a sudden it eliminates

misinterpretation

Joe Jurec (50:40):
because there's so much confusion and misinterpretation.
We don't clarify understanding.
We're using different terminology andlanguage and by having a introduction to
Kolbe introduction to any sort of systemor book or what have you kind of gives
you this platform to have some dialoguearound it and use this common language.
And there's absolutelysomething to that for.

(51:02):
So for our listeners, You That, thatsentiment of whether it be Kolbe and we'd
love for you to take a Kolbe A assessment,learn more about yourself and your team.
Right now we're offering afree Kolbe A assessment through
CultureShoc and review with Kimberly.
Yeah.

So if you're curious, this resonates with you.
We'd love to help you learn moreabout yourself, give you some
more freedom to be yourself.
So after you take your Kolbe A, you'regoing to get your results right away.
You're going to get a, abouta 16 to 20 page report.
You're also going to get an audio file,but because we really want to strive

(51:42):
towards our goals here at CultureShocto discover and engage leaders, I
will be offering an interpretationof your Kolbe to really get true
relevant questions answered for it.

Joe Jurec (51:54):
What can you do with it?
We always bring it back to how do

I take action with this?
No doubt.
So I want to just, uh, also notforget to add the good news and
the bad news about Kolbe is this.
The good news is.
It's truly who you are.
The bad news for some people isKolbe does not change over your life.
It has one of the highestlevels of consistency.

(52:18):
So some of the other assessmentsare more of a snapshot in time.
It's who you are at 25 at thisjob, who you are at 36 at that job
because you're responding to it.
16, 17 does not changevery, very rare occasions.
So , I stipulate the age because thereare separate Kolbe's for younger readers.

(52:41):
The words, are different, butthe results will be similar.

Joe Jurec (52:45):
There's a whole system, right?
So there's different Kolbe's and ofcourse you can learn more on that.
Maybe Convo for another day, buttruly if you want to understand why
you get shit done the way you do.
And the same thing about your team,if you go to CultureShoc dot com
and just fill out the main formsubmission, believe you can select

(53:07):
free Kolbe assessment and then we'll,we'll put you in touch with Kimberly
from there to, to talk about this.
Even when you have this platform andlanguage, it does let you introduce.
And be more open and honest about topicsthat otherwise you may not be able to.
It doesn't mean that we don't stillhave conflict in our quarterlies,

(53:28):
or that we don't still embrace thatwhen there are different action
modes, but we, we don't let itbecome resentment under the surface.
Absolutely.

It's, it's healthy conflict as Patrick Lencioni teaches, because
you've got to have healthy conflictotherwise you're going to have what?
False harmony.
Mmm.
No resentment under

Joe Jurec (53:49):
the surface.
I think there's a lot of thatfalse or artificial harmony.
Yes, you

can correct me.
Thank you.
Artificial harmony.

Joe Jurec (53:55):
Uh, every organization I've been a part of at some
layer or level it's there.
It's persistent.
And EOS, I'd love if you couldexplain it to a 5th grader.
But that's seems to be afairly large component.
Of it as well.
Is that open and honest dialogue, the

surfacing issues, solving issues.
Nothing gets duct tape and twine on it.

Joe Jurec (54:22):
So let's break into that because I know that takes up a lot of
your capacity and is core to what we do.
I think listeners knowby now we operate on E.
O.
S.
Here, but three of our team membersare also implementers of this system.
What the heck is it?

(54:42):
Entrepreneurial

operating system is not software.
Oftentimes it's easier to definesomething by what it's not.
It is a operating system foryour business, as long as
your business has people.
If you are a 100% automatedfactory, probably not your thing.
It is really just about gettingthe most alignment around a vision,

(55:07):
growing accountability with your team.
Not holding people accountable.
They hold themselves accountableand getting the best results for
what your goals and objectives are.
It teaches a cadence of meetings.
It teaches a common language andit creates focus and environment
where people can thrive.

(55:28):
It was

Joe Jurec (55:30):
far simpler than I expected when it was first introduced to me.
It's simple, but it's not easy.
We've said that a couple times in thispodcast so far, and that's often the
case, but we need simplicity so thatway we can get common understanding
so we can explain it to others.
And there is a whole library of EOSbooks that are not about software,

(55:52):
that are about how to get clarityon that vision, achieve healthy
traction as you grow your business.
And you can check out traction, checkout what the heck is EOS rocket fuel
you already mentioned about thatvisionary integrator combo process,
one of the newest additions to the

library.
And if you love a good story,a fable, absolutely one of my
favorite ones is called get a grip.
It's a story of a company that's just notgetting the results they want until they
bring in implementer, but it's a reallygood simple read and it's not a textbook.
It's a great story that willhopefully resonate with our listeners.

Joe Jurec (56:33):
EOS life for me was the most meaningful.
Do what you love.
With people you love.
Make a big difference.
Uh, with enough time for other.
You forgot.
Be fairly compensated.
Be

fairly compensated and have time for other passions.

Joe Jurec (56:49):
Enough time for other passions.
And some of the exercises that it hasyou go through can be uncomfortable, but
also very revealing and give you moreintention around where you want to go.
And of course you're going tofind yourself in situations
that are undesirable that.
Probably stress you out if you've notyet achieved clarity with yourself

(57:12):
of what that ideal Framework is rightlike how you want to invest your time.
What's matter?
What matters to you most we think sooften People do SWOT analysis on their
business and they set targets and, andmilestones and things like that for
their organization, but not for theirpersonal lives, for their lives, right?

(57:34):
And shouldn't we start there?
You, you should probably know whatthe core values are, whether you've
set them or not at your organization.
Hopefully they're not just on abreak room wall somewhere, part
of the onboarding, the OS, they'retruly lived, used as a filter.
But what about yourown core values, right?
Like, think about it and, and saythem, but have you ever taken the

(57:56):
practice of actually capturingthose, that and quite a few things.
I mean, EOS life for me was, that was thefirst, that's how it was introduced to me
when I met with Ron before joining here.
And we, we flirted for a while beforewe started dating and decided we were
going to do some good work together.

It's okay.
He refers to me as his stalkerbefore we decided to work

Joe Jurec (58:15):
together.
Yeah.
So let's open up EOS a little bit.
You mentioned implementer.
There's an operating system.
It's simple.
It's for growing businesses.
Why do they need an implementer?
Why is that a factor in this?
And is there some benefit or advantage ofhaving this person who is outside of the

(58:37):
organization but still in support to it?
Like what would your sentiment be there?
So

going backwards just a bit, EOS is designed for
entrepreneurial minded companies.
That doesn't mean you have to be anentrepreneur yourself, but you could be,
you know, third generation manufacturerlike we have plenty here in Northeast is.
Uh, more afraid of the status quothan they are of change like that.
Oh, I know.

(59:01):
I don't want to change.
Change is scary.
They want to grow top line,bottom line, product line.
Doesn't matter.
Yeah.
We will get more out of yourbusiness, more for what you most want.
Why would someone wantto use an implementer?
And always to make sure that there'sa, delineation integrators are

(59:22):
people that are in house at thecompany, more like a COO head of ops.
Implementer, which sounds verysimilar, is an external EOS trained,
certified professional or expert.
We have all three levels here atCultureShoc, who is a neutral third
party, comes into your company and helpsthe leadership team learn the tools,

(59:47):
facilitates your sessions and coachesyou through this, uh, how implementing
EOS would work in your company.
We are the eyes and ears thatcomes in with some outside
expertise, we are not consultants.
We don't have industry expertise.
We might have it just as a happenstanceand we're comfortable with that.
All of us work industry agnostic.

(01:00:09):
There's probably some value to that
as well.
And it's, it's so great to walk into asession room where the team gets to work
on the business, not in their roles.
Yes, they're still subject matterexperts, but they get to really dig
in that day while we are facilitating.

Joe Jurec (01:00:23):
There's so much to EOS that just dip your toe in, I'm sure the
recommendation, whether an organizationworks with an implement or not would
still be consume traction, share it,talk about it, you use what you can,
like find what's relevant to you andapply it, and that's the first step,
because from there, and you talk toothers in the community, you'll surely

(01:00:45):
hear more stories of, you know, whyit, you know, Would be worth investing
in some sort of an outside facilitatorimplementer, even if that's not something
that you typically do or that you saw aspart of the plan in your growth stage.
And there's plenty of workforcedevelopment grants and other
programs and things like that.
I don't think people alwaysconsider for leadership

(01:01:08):
development, coaching things like E.
O.
S.
That I actually had clientsrecommend us to in another
state to consider here in Ohio.
And I was amazed and I don't writethe grants or anything like that or
apply for them, but still like there'sthings that people can tap into to
do what they need for their business.
And I've seen even outside of EOS, howhaving an outside party, an unbiased

(01:01:32):
person come in, who's objective,who can offer even the senior, most
people, some accountability can haveprofound impact, real change can occur.
Instead of it being the same meetingthe same thing over and over and over
again, because there's some underlyingtrust issue or communication issue or,

(01:01:59):
or what have you, when there's alsothis system for that person to help you
implement, I think it's been incredible.
I'm not an implementer.
I'm here in the officetraction leadership center.
We have, a whole space that's been curatedfor distraction free, healthy conflict,
rich strategic planning sessions anddevelopment sessions and things like that.

(01:02:22):
We're in the process of buildingout a second area for that.
So every day of the week, whether I'min here in a podcast or working with
something on the into the storm leaderside of house, I'm seeing groups come
in to work with Kimberly, to work withRon, to work with Jim, and I hear it.
So although I'm not an implementer,I'm, again, familiar enough to be a

(01:02:45):
little dangerous, but I'm fortunateenough to benefit from wisdom of the
system and of U3, and to hear someof these stories from our clients.

Kimberly Dyer (01:03:00):
As a reminder, if you've not stated it before, any one
of our listeners that has been selfimplementing EOS and wants to have a
sharpening of their tools, all theyhave to do is get in touch with us.
We don't charge a dime for that.
We are a help first organization.
Just hey, how could I get better at this?
Because there's some things we'veseen and done just to tweak it a

(01:03:21):
little bit and really make yourimplementations much better.
I just wanted to go back to yourdiscussing what Uh, leadership
sessions feel like, and I've justcome off of three of them in a row.
And there are days where sitting asthe, objective, neutral third party,
I'm watching the body language,watching the faces, listening for
those moments of silence wherethe heavy lifting has to get done.

(01:03:45):
But when I have my team's Kolbe's.
I know I can tap into someone.
If they're going in a directionthat's needing more of a consistency,
a process, I can say, look,we've got a seven follow through.
You should own this rock tocreate this new system process.
Don't assign that rock.

(01:04:05):
Don't let the person with a twofollow through take that rock.

Joe Jurec (01:04:08):
We know better.
We know that about ourselves.
We know

that about the team.
More you know about your individualteam, right, and their strengths.
You're going to set that personup for some severe frustration if
they're like, I can't, I could do it.
Frustrate them.
Mm hmm.
So for me as a facilitator, as animplementer, when I know my team's
Kolbe's, I know who's in the room.
I can speak to them in that,in the language they want,

(01:04:31):
which is my quick starts.
I talk to them in bullet points.
Well, I thank you.
You're welcome.
And my fact finders, I will give thema pre and post follow up with a binder.
The binder.
Tab.
And my follow throughs, they wantto know how it's going to impact
history, current and future.
We've, we often neglect ourimplementor, spelled slightly

(01:04:52):
differently, the yellow bar in Kolbe.
Because so many of our teamsjust have people with more of
a resistance level of that.
It's the lower numbers, butthat not a lower strength.
A two or three implementer is someonewho can envision an amazing outcome,
but they may not necessarily be inclinedto go pick up the tools and build it.

(01:05:12):
So I never want to forget ourimplementers out there as well.

Joe Jurec (01:05:15):
They can, you can do it, but it's probably going
to cause the stress, right?

Like, right.
If you all can see this amazingpodcast studio, this was.
Hand hewn by Joe.

Joe Jurec (01:05:27):
I think within a couple days of the quarterly and the decision to
move forward with it, of course, I'dalready visualized it, and it was more
my inclination to move with urgency...
Than accuracy.
And just through my own, like, selfcoaching and experience that I had...
Some level of competence, uh, or,or confidence in being able to do

(01:05:49):
woodworking and stuff like that, but I'lltell you, I couldn't wait to get done.
It was after I got started in theinitial, uh, Joy, excitement of, you
know, we're turning this into a reality.
I was like, ah, can somebody else justcarry this thing across the finish line?
Because I'd sure like to focuson this other shiny object and
go innovate something else now.
Uh, so that was, you know, a little,probably a point of pride, something

(01:06:14):
that I was like, Hey, you actuallyfollowed through and got this thing.
I, I did it with the help of a few other

people, but we also have a team here, especially our integrator
who was looking at Joe every day.
Are you done yet?
Are you done yet?
Why aren't you done yet?
I

Joe Jurec (01:06:28):
think it was more you because you had some coaching
sessions and you were like, uh, Hey,can we use this room for that too?
Uh, I was like, Oh, I'm notgoing to let Kimberly down.
We're going to get this thing done.
All right.
What else?
Another topic that we could,I plan on having you on here.
We'll do this.
I'd hope to.
With some matter of frequency,uh, surely people can benefit from

(01:06:49):
even just story sharing, we'lldo some tales from the vault.
I like it.
EOS though, before we move intostorms, peak leadership, anything else?
That you want to mention.

It's for teams that are frustrated and want
more out of their business.
All they have to do is reach out to us.
They'll have what's calleda 90 minute meeting.
Some people call them discoveries.
It's just, you will see and understandthe tools, the process, and if it's
right for you, we give that to anybodywho needs a conversation about EOS.

Joe Jurec (01:07:21):
Level 10 is a way of describing the meetings.
We're not going to fully openthis up, but if a company is self
implementing and running level 10meetings, is there anything there

if they're level 10 meetings and everyone's rating it an
eight, you've got some liars in the room,invite one of us in to observe your L10.
We will be either a fly on the wall.
And then give you some greatfeedback on how you can get better.
Or, as I like to say, I, I willplay freeze tag through every

(01:07:55):
element, I'll tell you, stop, andI'll give some feedback quickly.
But yeah, we love watchingother L10s so we can really get
some improvement for people.

Joe Jurec (01:08:04):
One of my closest, deepest friends, uh, is actually how I was
first told about, not fully introduced,but how I was first told about EOS.
And he was at a company in LasVegas that was operating on it.
Talked about how it was the mostdisciplined, effective meeting
he had ever been a part of.

(01:08:26):
That there were, like, clearactions, , it was very timely,
everyone had their part to share.
So while it's a simple set of thesetools, like meeting effectiveness,
yeah, having Kimberly or anothermember of the team observe one,
she said, we want to help first.
We are anti consultants.

(01:08:47):
We don't do contracts.
We don't do long term retainersor anything like that.
And if we're not the best fit, we're goingto tell you we have an abundance mindset.
We're going to find somebody

who is.
Yes,

Joe Jurec (01:08:56):
we're happy to because you know, we want to work with
people that we love that we can makea big difference with We believe
in serving leadership, right?
We want to serve because werealize that that's the weight, the
responsibility of of leadership.
We take it seriously and try toshare that with others as well.

(01:09:19):
That said, how about Courageous leadershipand got buffaloes all over the place.
I got one on the cup.
I got to see him in Denver when Iwas out there a month or so ago.
It predates me coming toCultureShoc, certainly, but it

(01:09:40):
doesn't mean that some of thementality, hasn't always been there.
But what united us was that missionto discover, engage and grow leaders.
Something that we still all have incommon and promote awareness of and this
connection between Buffalo mentalityand courageous leadership and healthy

(01:10:01):
culture is this into the storm leaders,like how people have charged through
difficult, uncomfortable situations.
Head on to get a better outcome faster.
What are some of yours?
What are the ones that come to mind?
My

personal ones?
Or my companies I've helped?

Joe Jurec (01:10:22):
Take it where you like.
I think it's, generally I have peoplethink like professionally, a time
that you've charged into a storm.
Maybe start there.
Uh, but, If there's one or twoancillary ones that you want to
also share, sometimes we'll say, howabout a time that you, uh, recognized
after the fact you should havecharged into a storm and did not.

(01:10:44):
So I think all conversationaround this is beneficial.
Oh, let's see.

Though, actually my discovery of EOS is a bit unconventional.
I was working, uh, as a board memberfor a nonprofit and one of my.
Um, board members uses EOS religiously.
He's a private equity investor.
Every single company, hisportfolio runs on EOS.
He and I were having discussions aboutthe programs of the nonprofit and he

(01:11:11):
said, everything you've suggested,everything you want to do is traction.
Listen.
What are you talking about?
Gave me the book and my storm thenand there was, I need to do this.
I need to become an implementer.
I had no idea what to do next, but beinga eight back finder, which I didn't
know at the time I did, I read theentire library that existed at the time.

(01:11:35):
I probably Googled everything I could comeup with, including stalking Ron Kaminski
on LinkedIn, finding out who he wasconnected with, asked for an appointment.
And I gave up an off the cuff proposaland said, I want to be an implementer.
I don't want to be on my own.
I know what my unique abilities are.

(01:11:57):
What do you say?
And he, with his nine quickstarts said, let's go.
So that's one of my storms, I suppose.
That's how it started.
Just jumping in

Joe Jurec (01:12:08):
here.
Most U.
S.
implementers, as I understand,are generally more solo.
Yes.

Absolutely.
Us

Joe Jurec (01:12:16):
being, We are the anomaly.
The only, There's a few.
One, but, uh, a firm or collection of U.
S.
implementers.
That is unique.
And so that storm getting us tothe origin of that then, right?

I'm not sure if I was the actual origin, but I was here in Ohio.
Here.
And

Joe Jurec (01:12:36):
CultureShoc, that connection, because of course
we have Jim Tennant as well.
And he came in and joined forces shortly.

About two years after I did.
Okay.
So that was one, one of mypersonal ones, I suppose.
Sure.
What else?
What else comes to joke that, uh, sobeing, uh, raised in North Carolina,
got married in January and, and I had tomove here about almost a month before.
So Cleveland.

(01:13:06):
Welcome to Cleveland.
December 23rd was a blizzard.
So my literal storm I had to get throughwas driving on I 77 for normally eight
hours was It's more like 15 hours.
My moving truck was lost in a blizzard.
Everything I owned was gone except itwas in my car and I still got here.

Joe Jurec (01:13:31):
Well, what, what was the other option like, what, what?
Turn back.
Turn back.

But I said that.
I said to my husband, my thenfiance now husband, I said, I
sold my house in North Carolina.
My job is in Cleveland now.
I can't

Joe Jurec (01:13:43):
turn back.
I guess you could have, butif you did, where would you go?
And it probably would have just continuedto become a bigger and bigger issue.
Right.
Until you, uh, you know,

moved.
I think the easiest example.
That we can all relate to iswhat most companies, most of
our clients went through duringCOVID with respect to a storms.
I like everybody else, I had to go homeand sit in front of a computer and during
our lockdowns here and suddenly I had tolearn zoom teams technology really fast.

(01:14:20):
But the teams that reached out to me andjust said, we've got to get through this.
We've got a framework.
You taught us.
But there's a lot ofbig change coming at us.
I had one particular team thatlost 90% of their revenue.
Nine zero.
So we did weekly calls, not rocks anymore.
We did weekly to dues justto keep the company afloat.

(01:14:44):
We had to do what's called a reverseaccountability chart and it had to
make smart decisions who could stay onthe team and keep the company afloat.
Fortunately, this companyhas a great outcome.
They are back in business like crazy.
There's a backlog of orders theyhave to fill, uh, but it was the
storm mentality of the owners,the founders, the leadership

(01:15:05):
team that had to get through it.
Uh, the privilege they extended tome of their trust with me to help
them through it, all through Zoom.
We couldn't even get inthe same room together.
There, there were

Joe Jurec (01:15:16):
countless, countless, uh, that came with that.
And I, I try to always makesure it's clear that it's.
What we want to capture, it's notthe times where it wasn't of, of
course I'm going this direction.
Of course it's difficult, but Idon't really have another option.
It's where that other option is seeminglyfar more comfortable and more traveled.

(01:15:39):
And in that situation, I can see therebeing plenty like, yes, there's the
evolve or die, but lots of mini stormswith people issues and hard decisions
that Um, if you belabor, well, thestorm becomes a lot bigger because then
you crumble and fall and it's gonnasuck, but deal with it with urgency.

We teach too much long term pain or short term pain.
You're still gonna be in pain.
I think those examples, each of thesmaller storms, and they're not small by
any means when it comes to people issues.
Of course not.
People decisions, but when a teamrecognizes they have the wrong person and
that person is finally exited and I saythey're liberated to go somewhere else.

(01:16:24):
Right.
Made available to industry.
It's a great way of putting it.
The rest of the companycoalesces around it.
They function better.
They get more done.
Less drama.
Yeah.
Those are not easy decisions.
And as I say, as an implementer, whenI'm writing on the whiteboard, I said,
it's really simple for me to standhere with a marker and tell you what
needs to get done and point to it.

(01:16:44):
You have to do it.
I mean, we've, we've helpedcompanies get rid of whole divisions
because it wasn't their sweet spot.
It wasn't their niche.
They were chasing after the wrong stuff.
And if

Joe Jurec (01:16:56):
fear rules your thought process or you're complacent, then
it can have catastrophic recourse.
For me, when you weretalking about that, I just.
One that's clear as day for me iswhen I finally promoted someone to
customer who should have not been apart of the team long before, through

(01:17:18):
my fear about the rest of the team'sreaction They had a lot of institutional
knowledge, they had, uh, prowess inperformance and things like that, , that
had a impact on our entire location.
I didn't charge into the storm earlyenough on that one, but at some

(01:17:39):
point I realized it was only goingto get bigger and finally gained the
courage to address it head on froma place of compassion and directness
and just curiosity to say the least.
What are the reasons thatI'm seeing this stuff?
And is it because you don'twant to be here or then why?

(01:18:02):
What, what is it?
And ultimately, , I ended up having areally good relationship with that person.
They were happier because doingsome work that better aligned with
his instinctive strengths and therest of the team just rose up.
And like you said, none of the peopleissues are small storms by any means, they
surely don't feel it, and when there'slivelihood and well being of another

(01:18:22):
human on the line, like, you always takethat seriously, or you should, but it
doesn't mean you avoid it, at least apeak leader wouldn't, right, at least
the peak leadership experiences I've hadwith folks, mentors, coaches, teachers,
family members, bosses, what have you,those aren't the characteristics that I
would expect there, how about you, whenyou think about peak leadership experience

(01:18:46):
and the qualities you've of that person.
If you're fortunate enough tohave to have more than one, great.
I'm sure you've come into contact withsome pretty incredible freaking humans.
I know with certainty you have, butwhen you think your peak leadership
experience, give us a breakdown.

(01:19:07):
What does that look like toyou that you've kind of strived
to emulate from that person?

That's a really great question.
Um, a particular person.
I'm helping some people on her team,so I'm a bit of an adjacent to her,
but I, all the, all the great booksthat we reference on this podcast
come to mind in her peak leadership.
She is humbly confident.
She has the multipliermindset, Liz Wiseman book.

(01:19:37):
She wants the best for her peopleand looks to them to grow and is
willing to invest in them, but shegives them the gift of clarity.
I'm the vision and her expectations.
This isn't just a free, you know,free for all for what they want to
do, but she will look deep into herorganization and say, there is a gem.

(01:20:01):
I need your help with this personand these people, I'm given the great
opportunity, privilege to coach.
Um, but it's the, the leadership atthe top that saw these opportunities
that said, look, I need to invest inmy people and it's not just, you know,
here have a nice conversation, butthese are the objectives I want met.

(01:20:23):
So that, that is a true leader to me.
That was a hell of a breakdown,a way of simplifying it.
And boy, I strive to be lessverbose and more concise.
Words matter when you use less ofthem, but just the way that you
just defined and described that peakleadership experience was powerful.
I hope that resonated.

(01:20:45):
And the show notes will haveall the books I just read.
It surely will.
With links to any thatI can find, of course.
Um, anything else on that topic?
I mentioned the point before about welearn from peak leaders, we learn from
interns, we learn from everywhere.
I think
we learn most from storms, right?

(01:21:05):
Ah,
that's where I was getting that flipside, the adversity, the challenges.
I think you had also asked the greatquestion of where did I wait too long?
Um, an example comes to mind andhopefully our listeners have had the
experience of needing to fire a client.
It's not fun.
It sounds really flippant, but thisparticular instance was I was in a

(01:21:26):
position where I believed I needed thisclient to grow my practice, to grow
my experience, financial, et cetera.
This was a highly dysfunctional teamthat I'd spent too much time buffering.
Uh, what I found to be a toxicleader from the rest of the team.

(01:21:48):
And one day I finally got brave,went into the storm and you're
familiar with the issues list.
I wrote last session, circledit, made it issue number one.
And I said, this will beour last session together.
And I, they gave me the IDSif you're familiar with the

(01:22:11):
identify, discuss and solve.
The root cause was.
A lack of humility by theleader, a lack of accountability.
He had all the four toxins aboutblaming, shaming, stonewalling,
so pointed out a lack of maturity.
But that was our last session.
I waited too long and I took their moneyone time too many and I gave it back.

(01:22:34):
Nice.
So that's where I waited too long.
Well, that was a fear baseddecision we talked about before.

Joe Jurec (01:22:42):
Respect to you for who you are, most importantly, but for.
Even recognizing that and then respondinghow you did because it's easy to stay
in a situation for far too long, right?
And knowing when to move onfrom person to client situation,

(01:23:05):
it's going to be uncomfortable.
It's going to be painful.
But like you said, Pain now, pain later,rip the Band Aid off, charge into it,
like that, it takes courage, but that,those are some of the characteristics that
we, we see in our peak leaders, right?
They take action and don't expectthings to be given to them or to just

(01:23:25):
change without them addressing itand being more intentional about it.
We mentioned free Kolbe A assessmentand Kimberly's willing to do a

review.
Yep.
We're going to do what'scalled an interpretation.
So we get it really

Joe Jurec (01:23:40):
relevant for you.
With EOS.
The 90 minute meeting is always free.

And let us help with your L10s.

Joe Jurec (01:23:47):
Meeting observation and thank you immensely.
Thanks, Joe.
I'd love to ask before we wrap here,uh, any closing words, things you
want to make sure to share that youdidn't get a chance to, words of wisdom
for emerging leaders or executives?

There's lots of things that hopefully they can think through, absorb.
Write some notes to themselves and askwhen are they going to take action on it.
That's all.

Joe Jurec (01:24:14):
And that also kind of keeps it going for the next time.
We'll probably have you on in the nextmonth or so here to continue some of the
dialogue because there's a lot more Iwant to unpack, uh, but I really wanted
to first introduce our listeners toyou, so thank you very much for today.
Appreciate it.
And listeners, thank you very much, , asalways, if you were just listening to
this, On wherever you get your podcast,you can check out our YouTube channel

(01:24:39):
to see the video side of things as well.
In the description show notes, you canget all the resources that you need to.
So we hope you got something out of this.
We'd like you to usethis as a clarity break.
Think about what peakleadership means to you.
And what actions you can take to bethat peak leader for somebody else.
And one of them could be learnmore about yourself with a Kolbe.

(01:25:00):
That's it for today.
Thank you folks.

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