March 31, 2024 • 29 mins
Join Pastor Brennan and Ruth on the latest episode of the Post Sermon Reflections podcast for an enlightening discussion on the trials of faith and biblical authenticity. Brewed at their temporary location, this new episode traverses the paths of their recent sermon series, delving deep into the faith challenges and their resemblances with the biblical narratives from the Book of Daniel.
Experience in-depth talks on the church's "The Test" sermon series and significant biblical prophecies from Daniel 9. Learn how daily spiritual tests prepare us for grander life challenges, how humble victories from within their church congregation have been a source of inspiration, and why a sense of humility matters in understanding complex prophecies.
Pastor Brennan illuminates the obscure corners of biblical prophecy, adding substance with scholarly insights. The discussion culminates in reflections on the Bible's dependability and accuracy, underscoring its timeless spiritual values and relevancy amidst critical and cultural measures.
The discourse continues into the authenticity of the Bible, countering skeptics' doubts specifically on the Book of Daniel with compelling archaeological discoveries from the 19th century confirming the historicity of figures like King Belshazzar. This episode also compares the reliability of the New Testament Gospels with classics like Homer's The Iliad, paving the way for a more informed dialogue on the Gospel and the basis of God's existence. Tune in for soulful enrichment and gain a fresh perspective on scripture readings!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Post-Sermon Reflection Podcast,
where we want to help you apply Sunday morning learning into Monday morning
living as we connect others to the love of Jesus and help them live on gospel mission.
My name is Ruth, and I'm joined by a friend of mine, my pastor, Pastor Brennan.
And if you can tell, we are off-site right now. Our church is currently going through construction.
(00:21):
So if you hear a little background noise, we are at our sponsored Panera. I'm just kidding.
It's where Pastor Brennan often spends his time prepping for sermons,
but we're here on what feels like our home court. Does this feel like your home
court? It totally feels like my home court.
So we're here recording this, and this sermon, this podcast is going to look
a little different, and we're going to be reflecting on the whole series together.
Instead of one singular sermon from the series, we're going to be talking about everything.
(00:44):
And so we're not going to recap a text because we're going to be talking about
all the texts that have been covered. And so, Pastor Brennan,
we're so happy to have you.
Hey, it's great to be here. I'm a big fan of the Post-Sermon Podcast and want
to see more people really be blessed by it. Yeah, me too. Super big blessing.
And so first question to ask is a broad question.
(01:04):
We've been talking about the test, the singular test, and the book of Daniel
being our story. It's Daniel's story, but it's also our story.
And we talked about how there's a big test.
We have little tests in faith that prepare us for these big tests.
And we have taken tests as a church.
And so what impact do you feel like you've seen in people taking the budget
test, sugar test, and tech test.
(01:26):
It's funny. My kids were asking, dad, what's the next test?
I was like, well, we're done with the three tests. And they're like,
well, no, there should be more.
And they were like suggesting ideas for what other tests we could take.
What were some of their ideas?
They want us to have a fitness test, which was interesting. Just because they
want to beat other people in races.
But it was really funny. It really was funny because people really resonated
(01:49):
with taking these tests, like being personally challenged,
which I thought was really cool because you can't read the book of Daniel without
feeling this theme of testing, which is so cool.
So that was, to me, was just like kind of a cool win that the kids of Crosspoint
were like recognizing that we're taking these tests, we're challenging ourselves
to evaluate what we're eating.
(02:10):
We're challenging ourselves when it comes to our relationship with technology.
We're challenging ourselves when it comes to how we use our money and whether
we're using it for God's glory. So that was just.
That was cool. Just this idea of every week in that sermon transition video,
it's talking about the different tests that we're taking.
I thought that was cool to see that it was resonating with the people in our
(02:32):
church, the kids of our church. That was fun.
And our fellowship at home group
was cool just to talk through how we were experiencing each of the tests.
And there were some people joking because for the first couple of weeks,
we didn't have any suites, right?
For after the service, when everyone's hanging out.
And then we were reintroducing the sweets as we moved into some of the other
(02:53):
tests. And people were like, oh, I guess the test isn't over anymore.
And the joke was, no, now you're really being tested.
It's in front of you. Now the real test begins. But I just thought that was,
I thought that was cool that we're reminded that if we're going to follow Christ
in a culture that doesn't, we're going to be tested.
Like our faith is, and it's not just this like throwaway tagline,
(03:14):
but like, no, our faith is tested every Every day.
Like that is a very real thing. So I thought that was one of the wins of the series.
Even when it came to naming the series and landing on that, the test,
that was important for me that we're seeing that as we're watching Daniel,
Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego be tested in Babylon, we're really applying that,
that we're tested on a daily basis.
(03:36):
And it's so true. When we do take and pass the smaller spiritual test,
God does prepare us for the bigger test. So that was, I thought,
one of the cool takeaways, one of the cool wins from the series.
And I know there's people who have reevaluated their relationship with sugar.
There's people who have reevaluated their relationship with technology.
(03:57):
And we're going to, I think, see ongoing dividends from the budget test because
that was this more extended track you're spending for 30 days.
So I think there's more cool stories to come from that, but that's been a real
cool win when we're taking God's word, when we're taking this special book of
the Bible and really applying it in tangible ways to our lives.
(04:17):
So I think that was kind of one of my big wins as we're nearing the end of the
series. Yeah, no, I think personally, I felt very similar to say,
man, I want my relationship to my phone to be different after this to say,
yeah, maybe I am going to be really strict for this portion of time.
But I in general, if I'm adding more things back in my life,
I want to be evaluating what I'm adding that I don't just want to live and be
(04:38):
entertained the way the Babylon's entertained.
I don't want to eat the way Babylon eats. I don't want to spend the way Babylon spends.
That's been something I feel like I've been thinking about to say,
I want to be different and distinct from a place that says that they don't worship
my God. And I think that is really, really encouraging. Yeah.
I want to ask you from preaching in preparation perspective of thinking about
preparing for preaching, Daniel, what encouraged you the most as you were preparing?
(05:03):
It's funny. I was so excited to preach the book of Daniel.
I'm still excited as we're preaching the book of Daniel, moving through it.
But there was sort of this, I guess, intimidation factor.
The first six chapters are just straight narrative and some of the most compelling
narrative in all the Bible. It's in every single children's Bible.
Right. I mean, just in this incredible story.
(05:24):
And then, you know, me as former history teacher, that the historical context
really resonates with me.
And that was really fun to just dig into the geopolitical dynamics of the Babylonian
Empire and just really appreciating these guys were, I mean,
just a behemoth when it came to international politics and geopolitics.
I mean, these guys were really.
Who Nebuchadnezzar was, like how impressive he was. Yeah, this dude's kicking
(05:48):
butt and taking names, you know?
But in that, moving through the narrative, really appreciating,
getting deeper into the historical context, which helps you appreciate the spiritual
lessons that we're gleaning from the book, you turn a corner from chapter six to chapter seven.
And the whole second half of the book of Daniel is prophecy.
And there's some people, some Christians are like super energized by prophecy.
(06:13):
Yeah. And it can be a slippery slope, right? Yeah. Because you get into these
lanes where people are really rigid about, you know, I believe this interpretation.
And we get into like sort of these different lanes of what's going to happen
in future events, when Christ is coming back.
And it can become intimidating from like a studying standpoint.
But also like you kind of worry about divisiveness. You know what I mean?
(06:35):
And people's heart posture. Yeah, yeah.
Prophecy is, as a young person, my dad's super into prophecy.
And like I step away from it because it's stressful to me. Yeah,
yeah. To think about talking to him about it and being like,
I don't know if I believe that. Yeah.
And that, like, one question I have is, like, someone who wants to know how
to engage biblical prophecy well,
(06:55):
what would you encourage me as I'm starting to maybe study Daniel,
Ezekiel, Jeremiah? I'm headed towards it in my Bible reading.
I'm a little ahead, meaning I started in November like a dork.
I don't know why I didn't start in January, my Bible reading process.
Says, but as I'm headed towards it, what would be some helpful points for me
to think about, man, what I don't understand, what can I believe about God,
(07:17):
even though I may not understand some of these things?
So touch upon this a little bit in last week's sermon in Daniel 9.
There's elements of prophecy that even though some people claim to have cornered
the market on truth and know exactly what everything means, generally speaking,
when it comes to apocalyptic literature in the Bible, so it's a whole genre
(07:38):
of literature that we see that's really predicting what's going to happen at the end times.
There are certain things that from the historical context, from God's word,
we can look at that and say, that is clear.
Yeah, that's what that is. That is clearly pointing us to Jesus Christ,
or that is clearly giving us this particular aspect of a timeline.
(08:01):
But then we might go a little bit deeper and say, hey, you know what?
Jerry still feels out on this. There's some unknown here. There are different perspectives.
There are different vantage points. but we need to have a sense of humility in saying,
okay, we can have an inclination towards this is what this means,
but we need to be careful about saying we've cornered the market on clearly
(08:22):
understanding this prophecy.
So, for example, one of the most famous and one of the most divisive prophecies
in the whole Bible comes at the end of Daniel chapter 9.
And I tried to make the point that in verse 24—.
It's crystal clear. This is pointing to the coming of Jesus Christ,
that he's the only one who can make a final atonement for sin.
He's the only one who can end transgressions. He's the only one who can fully
(08:48):
make things right between us and God.
So we need to grab a hold of Daniel 9.24 and stand on that with conviction and
recognize that as truth.
But then when we go a little bit further And we get into what can feel like
a little bit of some vague prophesying about events in the future.
We can look and we can read scholars that we respect and we can look at the
(09:11):
different interpretations and vantage points.
But there are some things there that I think require a measure of humility to
be able to say, hey, I think this is what this is pointing to,
but it's not a hill I'm going to die on to create divisiveness between me and
my brother or sister in Christ. Yeah, yeah.
It falls under, is it fair to say that certain interpretations of prophecy are
secondary issues when we all know Christ is returning and we don't exactly know
(09:36):
when that's happening? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Because I think that helps me frame to say, hey, there's a basket of things
I believe that I'm not going to pitch a fit about.
And I'm not going to say that someone's not a Christian because they don't believe.
Right. Because that's where your primary issues are gospel and salvific and
your secondary and tertiary. Tertiary. Tertiary. I learned that word and then I forgot it. There it is.
(09:56):
Man, I feel strongly about, but I'm not going to call someone not my brother and sister in Christ.
And then those third things like, I just like this. I prefer this camp,
but I'm not going to cause divisiveness or even argue with someone about it.
I think that's really helpful to say, hey, what we can understand clearly,
we can enjoy and we can praise God for.
What we don't understand, we can with humility say, I'm going to think about these things.
(10:19):
I'm going to ask God to give me wisdom in them, but I'm not going to fight with
other Christians about them. So I feel like a fair summary. It does.
I read this week the sermon manuscript from Alistair Begg when he preached Daniel
9. And he began by saying.
A disclaimer, I reserve the right
to change my mind multiple times on this issue until Jesus comes back.
(10:42):
And it was really funny. But there was a sense of humility in highly educated.
Highly intelligent, expository of God's word saying, hey, I'm going to share
with you what I believe this prophecy means. Yeah.
But, right? Like, I'm going to leave some room that I could be wrong.
And I thought that was really helpful. But all that being said,
(11:05):
I was profoundly blessed to work through Daniel 9, that prophecy about the timeline,
and to see, okay, the 77s from the end of Daniel 9, and then to read.
So I read a number of commentaries, but one of them was by Dr. Daniel Aiken.
He's the president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary,
(11:25):
and he has a great commentary in the Christ-Centered Exposition series.
And he just really unpacked and said, I think this is the best interpretation.
And he's in line with many other scholars. But basically, that idea of the first
seven sevens showing the length of time it would take to rebuild the city of Jerusalem.
And then the 62 sevens and walking through like I did in the sermon.
(11:47):
And that bringing us to the year 27 AD when Christ was baptized and began his public ministry.
It was like this exhilarating, refreshing reminder. reminder,
like, oh my goodness, God is sovereign over all things.
And he gave Daniel this glimpse of what was to come.
And with the luxury of hindsight and historical context, we can look and say,
(12:08):
oh my goodness, this is breathtaking that this was being prophesied,
the coming of Christ, the very timetable, the chronology of the coming of Christ.
We can look and just be blown away to see how that was fulfilled.
That's so good. That's so good. Yeah. I enjoy it.
That it helps me be reminded that God really is in control and that this is a divine book.
(12:31):
Like that this isn't like anyone's history book. This is like no other book
that you're going to read.
And that's like always encouraging. I'm like, there's no other book I spend
every day thinking about reading, memorizing, living my life according to.
And so I think that's really encouraging.
All right. This is, I am coming to you as someone who is pastored by you.
You. I have the joy of working with you, but you're formally mostly my pastor.
(12:55):
And so we're almost through the series.
You'll preach your last one today. What did you want me to take away from this sermon series?
How did you want my life to be changed? How did you want my thinking to be changed?
Like anyone else who sits in your congregation and calls you their pastor? Sure.
There's so many things I could say on this, obviously, right?
(13:16):
Going back to the theme of the the series being the test, I think I wanted us
to walk away recognizing with like a fresh spiritual sobriety that faith is tested every day.
That when we're following just in a culture that doesn't, we're like those women
that are swimming upstream.
We're swimming against the current. And if you're swimming against the current,
you got to swim even faster and harder, right?
(13:38):
The Christian life is strenuous.
We're getting ourselves, we're striving for sanctification to to become more like Jesus Christ.
Like we're putting in the work, we're intentional about reading the Bible and
praying and gathering with other Christians and not letting the ideas of the
world and our culture mold our thinking, right?
That we're unapologetic about having a biblical worldview and having Christ
(14:01):
at the center, being the lens for our... So I think that was something that
I really wanted people to walk away with.
And we spent, I think, a relatively decent amount of time on that,
right? It was like a main emphasis. But I think.
Could be seen as like a subplot of the sermon series.
And I mentioned it a couple of times, but I think it's something that I would
want to just mention now and really encourage our people with.
(14:24):
We live in a cultural time and place where in many ways the Bible is viewed as like an enemy.
So it presents a worldview that's very different from when we put human beings
at the center of our worldview versus God, right?
So there's sort of the kind of cultural battles that that take place around
the Bible, and that's always going to be there.
But something else that's always been there is not just questioning the message,
(14:48):
the spiritual realities of the Bible, but questioning the reliability,
the trustworthiness, the veracity, the accuracy of the Bible.
So a lot of times people will just make off-the-cuff comments,
you know, the Bible is fairy tale or the Bible is, you know,
it's just made up. It's this ancient book.
It can't have any relevance to our world today.
It certainly is not a reliable historical document in any way.
(15:11):
It's been copied, copied, copied, copied, copied. Right, it's been changed so many times.
So I think if we're saying that this book is God's revelation to us,
if it's God's word and it is everything we need, right, for godliness,
for being faithful to the Christian life, everything that we need to know about
God, not necessarily everything we want to know about God, but everything we
(15:31):
need to know about God to follow Christ faithfully is in this book,
right, is in this book. Yeah.
So with that being said, Daniel is constantly in the crosshairs of critics of.
We call, you know, the reliability of scripture, right?
So they would say, man, this book's made up. It's not reliable.
The history's all over the place. This one's specifically for the book of Daniel. Yeah.
(15:53):
So they'll say about the Bible in general, but Daniel often is like in the crosshairs for these critics.
Like they'll point to the book of Daniel and a lot of times get a lot of traction
in discrediting the Bible.
So I mentioned this a couple of times in the series. So one example that we
really sort of delved into was the lack of historical evidence for King Belshazzar.
Yeah. And that's in Daniel chapter 5. And that was really important.
(16:17):
That's the text about the writing on the wall. That was really important because
if you successfully prove that King Belshazzar never existed,
now they're able to depict this entire book as made up. Yeah.
You know what I mean? So that's a big deal. And vice versa for other aspects of scripture.
So like if you take a book down, you're going to say, well, we took this one down.
(16:39):
We're going to start shooting holes in other things. 100%.
You can do the same thing with the story of King Nebuchadnezzar going crazy.
Well, where's the evidence for that? And I touched on that a little bit.
We'll stick with King Belshazzar.
So no one questions the existence of King Nabonidus. That was Belshazzar's son.
And he was the king of Babylon when Babylon fell with the invasion of the Middle Persian army.
(17:01):
But for centuries, there was no evidence for the existence of Belshazzar.
I mean, zero evidence. And I even cited the German theologian who wrote what
was supposed to be the definitive commentary in the book of Daniel.
And he said, listen, King Belshazzar is a figment of the Jewish writer's imagination.
I mean, he said he just conjured up this King Belshazzar character. character.
(17:24):
Four years later, archaeological discovery proves the existence of King Belshazzar.
And since then, there's been sort of like a opening up of the floodgates for
archaeological evidence.
So when I say archaeological evidence, I'm not talking about Christian theologians
dabbling in archaeology and trying to dig in the ruins of Babylon.
We're talking about secular, trained in academia, experts, authorities in this field.
(17:49):
They're doing the excavating and saying, saying, oh, wow, there is evidence for King Belshazzar.
So I think I went through that exercise in the sermon because I want our people
to hear that the Bible is trustworthy.
And every time someone's poking a hole in the Bible or thinking they're poking
a hole in the Bible, the Bible has this way of defending itself, right?
(18:09):
I even joked about this, hey, if you're going to punch at the Bible,
you better get your guard up because the Bible is going to punch back.
And there's been a number of examples where critics of the Bible have been.
Proven wrong in such an overwhelming way that hopefully they were humbled by it.
But the Bible has a way of when God is ready, he will demonstrate,
he will show us through even other disciplines, right?
(18:32):
He will show us that his word is true.
So I think that would be one of the underlying currents of the sermon series,
that I would want people to know that they can stand on the reliability,
the veracity, the trustworthiness of the Bible.
And it's historically historically trustworthy and we can, we can stake our lives on it. Yeah.
That's so good. And it's like, I think about my brain automatically goes to
(18:56):
like, what do we do before they find those archeological evidence and the,
the reliability that comes from like the story being lived out in truth in the lives of believers.
And so depending if you're arguing with someone who really cares about history,
science, and archeology, you're talking about someone who like can't believe
the reliability of how you could live out the Christian faith.
There's like these two points of like, I'm always encouraged to say,
(19:17):
I can go and show you the canon.
I can show you how the canon was formed. When I was in college,
that was what was a heavy debate. So define canon for everybody.
So it's the, what books are in the Bible?
What has been, hey, these are the 66, right? I always, I crack up. I sometimes say 52.
I don't know which ones I'm throwing out when I'm saying 52.
Super random, 52, where you get that number? I don't know.
But the 66 books that are in the Bible that we read today, how did they get
(19:42):
formed in there? They say, oh, there's been books that have been tossed out or all these things.
And you can study how the canon was formed.
And you walk away praising Jesus. You walk away being like, man, this book is divine.
And the way that it was orchestrated and the way scribes used to spend time
copying, they would throw whole manuscripts out if things were screwed up.
And so there's this historical evidence that comes and that scratches the itch
(20:06):
for some people who have questions of faith.
And sometimes it's, is what the Bible is telling me, can I live it? is this livable for me?
Is the truth of it livable? And those are different questions.
And so as you're sitting with people who are not yet believers,
recognizing, hey, what are the real questions you have about God?
Is it a historical question? You say, I've been sitting in school and they've
(20:27):
been saying, man, this is trash.
This book is not worth it. And there is academic evidence from those who would
say that the Bible is not worth believing because they don't want the content.
They'd say it's historically accurate, though. So what would you say for someone,
they're listening to an argument, they're sitting in their college class and
someone's coming at it, how would they find resources?
(20:48):
What are some resources you'd give them to defend the reliability of scripture?
For someone maybe who's a college student right now, feeling that they're getting
attacked constantly, what are some things that you would encourage them to read
or to look at so that they can...
Encourage their own faith, but also have some ammunition as they're just getting
fired at right now. Yeah. Yeah.
So I think a lot of times when you're having a conversation across worldviews,
(21:12):
right, you need to find some common ground. Okay.
So in this conversation, if you're having, maybe this is a college student or
someone having a conversation with their secular professor,
who's not coming from a biblical or Christian worldview, the common ground there,
particularly in this realm of academia would be the academic discipline of source criticism.
So there are scholars who are experts in ancient languages and they would evaluate,
(21:38):
they would assess ancient documents and they would be able to,
by using certain metrics, they'd be able to determine how trustworthy it is.
So the classic example in source criticism is Homer's The Iliad.
And what they'll do is they'll ask the question, well, how many copies do we
have, remaining copies? When was it first written?
And what's the historical gap between the original copy and the manuscripts that we have today?
(22:00):
Looking across all the remaining manuscripts, how consistent is it?
What's the consistency across there, right?
So they have these metrics that they use. What you're doing is you're introducing
a conversation where you have common ground to have a conversation.
So you're saying, well, hey, let's agree that we could look at this academic
discipline of source criticism.
Let's look at some historical documents. So you might look at some Greek historians,
(22:25):
some manuscripts that remain today.
Homer's The Iliad is the most popular one. And then we look at it and say,
okay, well, what makes this quote unquote trustworthy or reliable,
right? So the classic example, the Iliad, there is 95% accuracy across all the remaining copies.
The gap, the historical gap, I believe is 500 years from the original copy.
It's pretty significant.
(22:45):
Pretty significant. But when it comes to source criticism, that's actually not
a huge gap, which is interesting.
And then you'd be able to say, okay, well, if this is deemed by experts as being
reliable, trustworthy, legitimate.
Then let's take that same criteria and now apply it to the Bible.
So there's strategy here. You're asking someone to agree with you.
Hey, is this what source critics do? Is this what this academic discipline does?
(23:08):
Is this how they evaluated Homer's the Iliad? Yes. Okay. We're in agreement.
Let's take those same requirements, those same metrics, and let's apply it to
the Bible. And when it comes to the Bible, obviously Jesus is the main character.
So what most people would agree upon is, well, let's assess the accuracy and
reliability of the four gospels that tell the story of Jesus's birth,
(23:28):
life, death, resurrection.
And when we do that, what we find is there's actually thousands of more copies
of the Bible than there are the Iliad.
The Iliad has 95% consistency or accuracy across all those remaining copies.
The New Testament Testament Gospels have 99.6% accuracy.
Yeah, it's unbelievable. The gap between the first copies and the copies that
(23:52):
are still around today, instead of 500 years, in many cases,
they're decades or a century.
Yeah. So the gap is much, much smaller.
Feels like a lifetime. Yeah, much smaller. And not only are there tens of thousands
of copies, but there are copies in multiple different languages across linguistic lines.
So when we take that, we say, okay, well, if we're being fair,
(24:14):
impartial, and academically objective—.
Then we're forced to recognize that the New Testament Gospels are more trustworthy
and historically reliable than Homer's the Iliad.
So if you're recognizing that as trustworthy, then isn't it only fair to recognize
the New Testament Gospels as trustworthy?
And I find that that's, and that's not a gospel conversation,
(24:37):
obviously, but what you're doing is you're creating a baseline from which you
can then have a gospel conversation. Does that make sense? Yeah,
you're tilling the ground.
We talk about, there's a book I read, it talked about we're fishermen,
we're farmers, we're ambassadors, and we're high priests.
And the farming is you're helping navigate someone's heart and you're praying
that we're taking some of these rocks out or taking some of these weeds out.
(24:59):
Because we want to say, when I share the gospel with you, if you have some major
barriers, you're just going to turn it off.
Yeah. As I'm trying to level the playing field. Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it. And so when we have that conversation, hey,
will you give me the premise?
Of course, we've come to the conclusion that this is trustworthy.
And by your standard academically, this is trustworthy.
Now can we talk about some of the contents of what's being said?
(25:21):
And now I'm saying, hey, if you give me the presence that this is true,
can I share with you how what this book says has changed everything for me?
And you may be able to have a conversation that they may still may not agree.
But you're taking steps in the right direction by saying, hey,
we've had an intellectually honest conversation, you and I, and now we can move forward.
Absolutely. And ideally that's done in a relationship, but you've won a little bit of ground.
(25:47):
For me, I need people to get to the premise that there could be a God.
We're not talking about there can be a God. We have no ground to work in.
But if I can get them to say, hey, there could be one, I'm like,
awesome. some, we've now moved a step forward that we can start having real conversations about.
There could be a God, let me tell you about who I think that God is.
We think of Paul and Acts going, they have like the altar to the unknown God.
(26:10):
He's using their cultural language to share with them and say,
I actually know who this God is.
And he points them to the reality of who Jesus is.
Pastor Ben, I've been so encouraged by the book of Daniel being preached.
I think the reality that we are living in exiles has been really helpful for
me to say, I need to live differently and distinct.
That's the language that comes very consistently to me from hearing it to say,
(26:33):
Daniel and his friends were different and distinct from their culture.
They still actually had success in their jobs politically.
They were still excellent in what they did. And I believe I look at whatever
job I do, I wanna be the best that I can because I wanna honor my King in that,
but I'm gonna have to do it differently and distinct than my coworkers who do not yet know Jesus.
(26:54):
And so I would just love to hear any last encouragements and then just have
you pray for those who are listening.
I guess last encouragements, I just want to encourage people,
man, just get your face in the book.
I mean, just read God's word. It's so rich. It's so encouraging.
And it's such a joy to be in a position where God allows me,
calls me to open his word and share it with the people of Crosspoint.
(27:18):
It's just such a gift. And I think this journey through Daniel has just kind
of reminded me of that gift and And wanting to encourage people that that same
gift is available to them every time they open the Bible.
Yeah. And they ask God to, through the power of his spirit, to just communicate
the truth of his word and impress it upon our hearts.
So I think, you know, hopefully, and just in some conversations I've been having,
(27:38):
it seems like people are resonating with God's word more and more,
which is just so encouraging.
Yeah. That this is real. This is life. This is truth. Yeah. And that's awesome.
So I just would encourage people to stay in the word. Get in there.
Get in there every day, all the time, as best you can.
Put it to memory. Talk to your friends about it. That's so good.
All right, Pastor Ben, will you pray for us? Sure.
(28:01):
Dear Lord, we thank you for your goodness. We thank you, Lord, that you are sovereign.
We thank you, Lord, that you are sovereign over Daniel and his friends going into exile.
We could even say you sent them into exile, Lord, in your sovereign plan.
And the same is true for us, Lord. Lord. We may desire to live in a Christian
culture where everyone shares our worldview,
(28:22):
but Lord, we just pause and recognize that when we may see five angles,
Lord, you see 500,000 angles, and you always know what's best.
And Lord, I pray that you'd help us to embrace that we have been called for
this season, Lord, to be exiles living in a modern Babylon, Lord.
So I pray that we would not just lament it or begrudge it, Lord,
(28:44):
but we would embrace it, that this is what you've called us to.
Pray, Lord, that you would make us faithful to the task. Make us the kind of
people who are fearless, Lord, who are humble, who want to see you glorified.
And we pray, Lord, that you would just continue to use us as your people to make your son known.
We pray this in Jesus' name, amen. Amen.
(29:05):
Well, friends, thank you so much for listening. If you are not subscribed,
I just ask you to subscribe.
It's a blessing for us to know that you are gonna get a notification on your
phone every time we have a new podcast. And if it's a blessing,
thing, please share it with someone.
We always want to have this message go further because we want people to be
living for Christ ultimately. Pray you have an awesome day.
Welcome back to another episode of the Post-Sermon Reflection Podcast,
where we want to help you apply Sunday morning learning into Monday morning
living as we connect others to the love of Jesus and help them live on gospel mission.
My name is Ruth, and I'm joined by a friend of mine, my pastor, Pastor Brennan.
And if you can tell, we are off-site right now. Our church is currently going through construction.
(00:21):
So if you hear a little background noise, we are at our sponsored Panera. I'm just kidding.
It's where Pastor Brennan often spends his time prepping for sermons,
but we're here on what feels like our home court. Does this feel like your home
court? It totally feels like my home court.
So we're here recording this, and this sermon, this podcast is going to look
a little different, and we're going to be reflecting on the whole series together.
Instead of one singular sermon from the series, we're going to be talking about everything.
(00:44):
And so we're not going to recap a text because we're going to be talking about
all the texts that have been covered. And so, Pastor Brennan,
we're so happy to have you.
Hey, it's great to be here. I'm a big fan of the Post-Sermon Podcast and want
to see more people really be blessed by it. Yeah, me too. Super big blessing.
And so first question to ask is a broad question.
(01:04):
We've been talking about the test, the singular test, and the book of Daniel
being our story. It's Daniel's story, but it's also our story.
And we talked about how there's a big test.
We have little tests in faith that prepare us for these big tests.
And we have taken tests as a church.
And so what impact do you feel like you've seen in people taking the budget
test, sugar test, and tech test.
(01:26):
It's funny. My kids were asking, dad, what's the next test?
I was like, well, we're done with the three tests. And they're like,
well, no, there should be more.
And they were like suggesting ideas for what other tests we could take.
What were some of their ideas?
They want us to have a fitness test, which was interesting. Just because they
want to beat other people in races.
But it was really funny. It really was funny because people really resonated
(01:49):
with taking these tests, like being personally challenged,
which I thought was really cool because you can't read the book of Daniel without
feeling this theme of testing, which is so cool.
So that was, to me, was just like kind of a cool win that the kids of Crosspoint
were like recognizing that we're taking these tests, we're challenging ourselves
to evaluate what we're eating.
(02:10):
We're challenging ourselves when it comes to our relationship with technology.
We're challenging ourselves when it comes to how we use our money and whether
we're using it for God's glory. So that was just.
That was cool. Just this idea of every week in that sermon transition video,
it's talking about the different tests that we're taking.
I thought that was cool to see that it was resonating with the people in our
(02:32):
church, the kids of our church. That was fun.
And our fellowship at home group
was cool just to talk through how we were experiencing each of the tests.
And there were some people joking because for the first couple of weeks,
we didn't have any suites, right?
For after the service, when everyone's hanging out.
And then we were reintroducing the sweets as we moved into some of the other
(02:53):
tests. And people were like, oh, I guess the test isn't over anymore.
And the joke was, no, now you're really being tested.
It's in front of you. Now the real test begins. But I just thought that was,
I thought that was cool that we're reminded that if we're going to follow Christ
in a culture that doesn't, we're going to be tested.
Like our faith is, and it's not just this like throwaway tagline,
(03:14):
but like, no, our faith is tested every Every day.
Like that is a very real thing. So I thought that was one of the wins of the series.
Even when it came to naming the series and landing on that, the test,
that was important for me that we're seeing that as we're watching Daniel,
Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego be tested in Babylon, we're really applying that,
that we're tested on a daily basis.
(03:36):
And it's so true. When we do take and pass the smaller spiritual test,
God does prepare us for the bigger test. So that was, I thought,
one of the cool takeaways, one of the cool wins from the series.
And I know there's people who have reevaluated their relationship with sugar.
There's people who have reevaluated their relationship with technology.
(03:57):
And we're going to, I think, see ongoing dividends from the budget test because
that was this more extended track you're spending for 30 days.
So I think there's more cool stories to come from that, but that's been a real
cool win when we're taking God's word, when we're taking this special book of
the Bible and really applying it in tangible ways to our lives.
(04:17):
So I think that was kind of one of my big wins as we're nearing the end of the
series. Yeah, no, I think personally, I felt very similar to say,
man, I want my relationship to my phone to be different after this to say,
yeah, maybe I am going to be really strict for this portion of time.
But I in general, if I'm adding more things back in my life,
I want to be evaluating what I'm adding that I don't just want to live and be
(04:38):
entertained the way the Babylon's entertained.
I don't want to eat the way Babylon eats. I don't want to spend the way Babylon spends.
That's been something I feel like I've been thinking about to say,
I want to be different and distinct from a place that says that they don't worship
my God. And I think that is really, really encouraging. Yeah.
I want to ask you from preaching in preparation perspective of thinking about
preparing for preaching, Daniel, what encouraged you the most as you were preparing?
(05:03):
It's funny. I was so excited to preach the book of Daniel.
I'm still excited as we're preaching the book of Daniel, moving through it.
But there was sort of this, I guess, intimidation factor.
The first six chapters are just straight narrative and some of the most compelling
narrative in all the Bible. It's in every single children's Bible.
Right. I mean, just in this incredible story.
(05:24):
And then, you know, me as former history teacher, that the historical context
really resonates with me.
And that was really fun to just dig into the geopolitical dynamics of the Babylonian
Empire and just really appreciating these guys were, I mean,
just a behemoth when it came to international politics and geopolitics.
I mean, these guys were really.
Who Nebuchadnezzar was, like how impressive he was. Yeah, this dude's kicking
(05:48):
butt and taking names, you know?
But in that, moving through the narrative, really appreciating,
getting deeper into the historical context, which helps you appreciate the spiritual
lessons that we're gleaning from the book, you turn a corner from chapter six to chapter seven.
And the whole second half of the book of Daniel is prophecy.
And there's some people, some Christians are like super energized by prophecy.
(06:13):
Yeah. And it can be a slippery slope, right? Yeah. Because you get into these
lanes where people are really rigid about, you know, I believe this interpretation.
And we get into like sort of these different lanes of what's going to happen
in future events, when Christ is coming back.
And it can become intimidating from like a studying standpoint.
But also like you kind of worry about divisiveness. You know what I mean?
(06:35):
And people's heart posture. Yeah, yeah.
Prophecy is, as a young person, my dad's super into prophecy.
And like I step away from it because it's stressful to me. Yeah,
yeah. To think about talking to him about it and being like,
I don't know if I believe that. Yeah.
And that, like, one question I have is, like, someone who wants to know how
to engage biblical prophecy well,
(06:55):
what would you encourage me as I'm starting to maybe study Daniel,
Ezekiel, Jeremiah? I'm headed towards it in my Bible reading.
I'm a little ahead, meaning I started in November like a dork.
I don't know why I didn't start in January, my Bible reading process.
Says, but as I'm headed towards it, what would be some helpful points for me
to think about, man, what I don't understand, what can I believe about God,
(07:17):
even though I may not understand some of these things?
So touch upon this a little bit in last week's sermon in Daniel 9.
There's elements of prophecy that even though some people claim to have cornered
the market on truth and know exactly what everything means, generally speaking,
when it comes to apocalyptic literature in the Bible, so it's a whole genre
(07:38):
of literature that we see that's really predicting what's going to happen at the end times.
There are certain things that from the historical context, from God's word,
we can look at that and say, that is clear.
Yeah, that's what that is. That is clearly pointing us to Jesus Christ,
or that is clearly giving us this particular aspect of a timeline.
(08:01):
But then we might go a little bit deeper and say, hey, you know what?
Jerry still feels out on this. There's some unknown here. There are different perspectives.
There are different vantage points. but we need to have a sense of humility in saying,
okay, we can have an inclination towards this is what this means,
but we need to be careful about saying we've cornered the market on clearly
(08:22):
understanding this prophecy.
So, for example, one of the most famous and one of the most divisive prophecies
in the whole Bible comes at the end of Daniel chapter 9.
And I tried to make the point that in verse 24—.
It's crystal clear. This is pointing to the coming of Jesus Christ,
that he's the only one who can make a final atonement for sin.
He's the only one who can end transgressions. He's the only one who can fully
(08:48):
make things right between us and God.
So we need to grab a hold of Daniel 9.24 and stand on that with conviction and
recognize that as truth.
But then when we go a little bit further And we get into what can feel like
a little bit of some vague prophesying about events in the future.
We can look and we can read scholars that we respect and we can look at the
(09:11):
different interpretations and vantage points.
But there are some things there that I think require a measure of humility to
be able to say, hey, I think this is what this is pointing to,
but it's not a hill I'm going to die on to create divisiveness between me and
my brother or sister in Christ. Yeah, yeah.
It falls under, is it fair to say that certain interpretations of prophecy are
secondary issues when we all know Christ is returning and we don't exactly know
(09:36):
when that's happening? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Because I think that helps me frame to say, hey, there's a basket of things
I believe that I'm not going to pitch a fit about.
And I'm not going to say that someone's not a Christian because they don't believe.
Right. Because that's where your primary issues are gospel and salvific and
your secondary and tertiary. Tertiary. Tertiary. I learned that word and then I forgot it. There it is.
(09:56):
Man, I feel strongly about, but I'm not going to call someone not my brother and sister in Christ.
And then those third things like, I just like this. I prefer this camp,
but I'm not going to cause divisiveness or even argue with someone about it.
I think that's really helpful to say, hey, what we can understand clearly,
we can enjoy and we can praise God for.
What we don't understand, we can with humility say, I'm going to think about these things.
(10:19):
I'm going to ask God to give me wisdom in them, but I'm not going to fight with
other Christians about them. So I feel like a fair summary. It does.
I read this week the sermon manuscript from Alistair Begg when he preached Daniel
9. And he began by saying.
A disclaimer, I reserve the right
to change my mind multiple times on this issue until Jesus comes back.
(10:42):
And it was really funny. But there was a sense of humility in highly educated.
Highly intelligent, expository of God's word saying, hey, I'm going to share
with you what I believe this prophecy means. Yeah.
But, right? Like, I'm going to leave some room that I could be wrong.
And I thought that was really helpful. But all that being said,
(11:05):
I was profoundly blessed to work through Daniel 9, that prophecy about the timeline,
and to see, okay, the 77s from the end of Daniel 9, and then to read.
So I read a number of commentaries, but one of them was by Dr. Daniel Aiken.
He's the president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary,
(11:25):
and he has a great commentary in the Christ-Centered Exposition series.
And he just really unpacked and said, I think this is the best interpretation.
And he's in line with many other scholars. But basically, that idea of the first
seven sevens showing the length of time it would take to rebuild the city of Jerusalem.
And then the 62 sevens and walking through like I did in the sermon.
(11:47):
And that bringing us to the year 27 AD when Christ was baptized and began his public ministry.
It was like this exhilarating, refreshing reminder. reminder,
like, oh my goodness, God is sovereign over all things.
And he gave Daniel this glimpse of what was to come.
And with the luxury of hindsight and historical context, we can look and say,
(12:08):
oh my goodness, this is breathtaking that this was being prophesied,
the coming of Christ, the very timetable, the chronology of the coming of Christ.
We can look and just be blown away to see how that was fulfilled.
That's so good. That's so good. Yeah. I enjoy it.
That it helps me be reminded that God really is in control and that this is a divine book.
(12:31):
Like that this isn't like anyone's history book. This is like no other book
that you're going to read.
And that's like always encouraging. I'm like, there's no other book I spend
every day thinking about reading, memorizing, living my life according to.
And so I think that's really encouraging.
All right. This is, I am coming to you as someone who is pastored by you.
You. I have the joy of working with you, but you're formally mostly my pastor.
(12:55):
And so we're almost through the series.
You'll preach your last one today. What did you want me to take away from this sermon series?
How did you want my life to be changed? How did you want my thinking to be changed?
Like anyone else who sits in your congregation and calls you their pastor? Sure.
There's so many things I could say on this, obviously, right?
(13:16):
Going back to the theme of the the series being the test, I think I wanted us
to walk away recognizing with like a fresh spiritual sobriety that faith is tested every day.
That when we're following just in a culture that doesn't, we're like those women
that are swimming upstream.
We're swimming against the current. And if you're swimming against the current,
you got to swim even faster and harder, right?
(13:38):
The Christian life is strenuous.
We're getting ourselves, we're striving for sanctification to to become more like Jesus Christ.
Like we're putting in the work, we're intentional about reading the Bible and
praying and gathering with other Christians and not letting the ideas of the
world and our culture mold our thinking, right?
That we're unapologetic about having a biblical worldview and having Christ
(14:01):
at the center, being the lens for our... So I think that was something that
I really wanted people to walk away with.
And we spent, I think, a relatively decent amount of time on that,
right? It was like a main emphasis. But I think.
Could be seen as like a subplot of the sermon series.
And I mentioned it a couple of times, but I think it's something that I would
want to just mention now and really encourage our people with.
(14:24):
We live in a cultural time and place where in many ways the Bible is viewed as like an enemy.
So it presents a worldview that's very different from when we put human beings
at the center of our worldview versus God, right?
So there's sort of the kind of cultural battles that that take place around
the Bible, and that's always going to be there.
But something else that's always been there is not just questioning the message,
(14:48):
the spiritual realities of the Bible, but questioning the reliability,
the trustworthiness, the veracity, the accuracy of the Bible.
So a lot of times people will just make off-the-cuff comments,
you know, the Bible is fairy tale or the Bible is, you know,
it's just made up. It's this ancient book.
It can't have any relevance to our world today.
It certainly is not a reliable historical document in any way.
(15:11):
It's been copied, copied, copied, copied, copied. Right, it's been changed so many times.
So I think if we're saying that this book is God's revelation to us,
if it's God's word and it is everything we need, right, for godliness,
for being faithful to the Christian life, everything that we need to know about
God, not necessarily everything we want to know about God, but everything we
(15:31):
need to know about God to follow Christ faithfully is in this book,
right, is in this book. Yeah.
So with that being said, Daniel is constantly in the crosshairs of critics of.
We call, you know, the reliability of scripture, right?
So they would say, man, this book's made up. It's not reliable.
The history's all over the place. This one's specifically for the book of Daniel. Yeah.
(15:53):
So they'll say about the Bible in general, but Daniel often is like in the crosshairs for these critics.
Like they'll point to the book of Daniel and a lot of times get a lot of traction
in discrediting the Bible.
So I mentioned this a couple of times in the series. So one example that we
really sort of delved into was the lack of historical evidence for King Belshazzar.
Yeah. And that's in Daniel chapter 5. And that was really important.
(16:17):
That's the text about the writing on the wall. That was really important because
if you successfully prove that King Belshazzar never existed,
now they're able to depict this entire book as made up. Yeah.
You know what I mean? So that's a big deal. And vice versa for other aspects of scripture.
So like if you take a book down, you're going to say, well, we took this one down.
(16:39):
We're going to start shooting holes in other things. 100%.
You can do the same thing with the story of King Nebuchadnezzar going crazy.
Well, where's the evidence for that? And I touched on that a little bit.
We'll stick with King Belshazzar.
So no one questions the existence of King Nabonidus. That was Belshazzar's son.
And he was the king of Babylon when Babylon fell with the invasion of the Middle Persian army.
(17:01):
But for centuries, there was no evidence for the existence of Belshazzar.
I mean, zero evidence. And I even cited the German theologian who wrote what
was supposed to be the definitive commentary in the book of Daniel.
And he said, listen, King Belshazzar is a figment of the Jewish writer's imagination.
I mean, he said he just conjured up this King Belshazzar character. character.
(17:24):
Four years later, archaeological discovery proves the existence of King Belshazzar.
And since then, there's been sort of like a opening up of the floodgates for
archaeological evidence.
So when I say archaeological evidence, I'm not talking about Christian theologians
dabbling in archaeology and trying to dig in the ruins of Babylon.
We're talking about secular, trained in academia, experts, authorities in this field.
(17:49):
They're doing the excavating and saying, saying, oh, wow, there is evidence for King Belshazzar.
So I think I went through that exercise in the sermon because I want our people
to hear that the Bible is trustworthy.
And every time someone's poking a hole in the Bible or thinking they're poking
a hole in the Bible, the Bible has this way of defending itself, right?
(18:09):
I even joked about this, hey, if you're going to punch at the Bible,
you better get your guard up because the Bible is going to punch back.
And there's been a number of examples where critics of the Bible have been.
Proven wrong in such an overwhelming way that hopefully they were humbled by it.
But the Bible has a way of when God is ready, he will demonstrate,
he will show us through even other disciplines, right?
(18:32):
He will show us that his word is true.
So I think that would be one of the underlying currents of the sermon series,
that I would want people to know that they can stand on the reliability,
the veracity, the trustworthiness of the Bible.
And it's historically historically trustworthy and we can, we can stake our lives on it. Yeah.
That's so good. And it's like, I think about my brain automatically goes to
(18:56):
like, what do we do before they find those archeological evidence and the,
the reliability that comes from like the story being lived out in truth in the lives of believers.
And so depending if you're arguing with someone who really cares about history,
science, and archeology, you're talking about someone who like can't believe
the reliability of how you could live out the Christian faith.
There's like these two points of like, I'm always encouraged to say,
(19:17):
I can go and show you the canon.
I can show you how the canon was formed. When I was in college,
that was what was a heavy debate. So define canon for everybody.
So it's the, what books are in the Bible?
What has been, hey, these are the 66, right? I always, I crack up. I sometimes say 52.
I don't know which ones I'm throwing out when I'm saying 52.
Super random, 52, where you get that number? I don't know.
But the 66 books that are in the Bible that we read today, how did they get
(19:42):
formed in there? They say, oh, there's been books that have been tossed out or all these things.
And you can study how the canon was formed.
And you walk away praising Jesus. You walk away being like, man, this book is divine.
And the way that it was orchestrated and the way scribes used to spend time
copying, they would throw whole manuscripts out if things were screwed up.
And so there's this historical evidence that comes and that scratches the itch
(20:06):
for some people who have questions of faith.
And sometimes it's, is what the Bible is telling me, can I live it? is this livable for me?
Is the truth of it livable? And those are different questions.
And so as you're sitting with people who are not yet believers,
recognizing, hey, what are the real questions you have about God?
Is it a historical question? You say, I've been sitting in school and they've
(20:27):
been saying, man, this is trash.
This book is not worth it. And there is academic evidence from those who would
say that the Bible is not worth believing because they don't want the content.
They'd say it's historically accurate, though. So what would you say for someone,
they're listening to an argument, they're sitting in their college class and
someone's coming at it, how would they find resources?
(20:48):
What are some resources you'd give them to defend the reliability of scripture?
For someone maybe who's a college student right now, feeling that they're getting
attacked constantly, what are some things that you would encourage them to read
or to look at so that they can...
Encourage their own faith, but also have some ammunition as they're just getting
fired at right now. Yeah. Yeah.
So I think a lot of times when you're having a conversation across worldviews,
(21:12):
right, you need to find some common ground. Okay.
So in this conversation, if you're having, maybe this is a college student or
someone having a conversation with their secular professor,
who's not coming from a biblical or Christian worldview, the common ground there,
particularly in this realm of academia would be the academic discipline of source criticism.
So there are scholars who are experts in ancient languages and they would evaluate,
(21:38):
they would assess ancient documents and they would be able to,
by using certain metrics, they'd be able to determine how trustworthy it is.
So the classic example in source criticism is Homer's The Iliad.
And what they'll do is they'll ask the question, well, how many copies do we
have, remaining copies? When was it first written?
And what's the historical gap between the original copy and the manuscripts that we have today?
(22:00):
Looking across all the remaining manuscripts, how consistent is it?
What's the consistency across there, right?
So they have these metrics that they use. What you're doing is you're introducing
a conversation where you have common ground to have a conversation.
So you're saying, well, hey, let's agree that we could look at this academic
discipline of source criticism.
Let's look at some historical documents. So you might look at some Greek historians,
(22:25):
some manuscripts that remain today.
Homer's The Iliad is the most popular one. And then we look at it and say,
okay, well, what makes this quote unquote trustworthy or reliable,
right? So the classic example, the Iliad, there is 95% accuracy across all the remaining copies.
The gap, the historical gap, I believe is 500 years from the original copy.
It's pretty significant.
(22:45):
Pretty significant. But when it comes to source criticism, that's actually not
a huge gap, which is interesting.
And then you'd be able to say, okay, well, if this is deemed by experts as being
reliable, trustworthy, legitimate.
Then let's take that same criteria and now apply it to the Bible.
So there's strategy here. You're asking someone to agree with you.
Hey, is this what source critics do? Is this what this academic discipline does?
(23:08):
Is this how they evaluated Homer's the Iliad? Yes. Okay. We're in agreement.
Let's take those same requirements, those same metrics, and let's apply it to
the Bible. And when it comes to the Bible, obviously Jesus is the main character.
So what most people would agree upon is, well, let's assess the accuracy and
reliability of the four gospels that tell the story of Jesus's birth,
(23:28):
life, death, resurrection.
And when we do that, what we find is there's actually thousands of more copies
of the Bible than there are the Iliad.
The Iliad has 95% consistency or accuracy across all those remaining copies.
The New Testament Testament Gospels have 99.6% accuracy.
Yeah, it's unbelievable. The gap between the first copies and the copies that
(23:52):
are still around today, instead of 500 years, in many cases,
they're decades or a century.
Yeah. So the gap is much, much smaller.
Feels like a lifetime. Yeah, much smaller. And not only are there tens of thousands
of copies, but there are copies in multiple different languages across linguistic lines.
So when we take that, we say, okay, well, if we're being fair,
(24:14):
impartial, and academically objective—.
Then we're forced to recognize that the New Testament Gospels are more trustworthy
and historically reliable than Homer's the Iliad.
So if you're recognizing that as trustworthy, then isn't it only fair to recognize
the New Testament Gospels as trustworthy?
And I find that that's, and that's not a gospel conversation,
(24:37):
obviously, but what you're doing is you're creating a baseline from which you
can then have a gospel conversation. Does that make sense? Yeah,
you're tilling the ground.
We talk about, there's a book I read, it talked about we're fishermen,
we're farmers, we're ambassadors, and we're high priests.
And the farming is you're helping navigate someone's heart and you're praying
that we're taking some of these rocks out or taking some of these weeds out.
(24:59):
Because we want to say, when I share the gospel with you, if you have some major
barriers, you're just going to turn it off.
Yeah. As I'm trying to level the playing field. Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it. And so when we have that conversation, hey,
will you give me the premise?
Of course, we've come to the conclusion that this is trustworthy.
And by your standard academically, this is trustworthy.
Now can we talk about some of the contents of what's being said?
(25:21):
And now I'm saying, hey, if you give me the presence that this is true,
can I share with you how what this book says has changed everything for me?
And you may be able to have a conversation that they may still may not agree.
But you're taking steps in the right direction by saying, hey,
we've had an intellectually honest conversation, you and I, and now we can move forward.
Absolutely. And ideally that's done in a relationship, but you've won a little bit of ground.
(25:47):
For me, I need people to get to the premise that there could be a God.
We're not talking about there can be a God. We have no ground to work in.
But if I can get them to say, hey, there could be one, I'm like,
awesome. some, we've now moved a step forward that we can start having real conversations about.
There could be a God, let me tell you about who I think that God is.
We think of Paul and Acts going, they have like the altar to the unknown God.
(26:10):
He's using their cultural language to share with them and say,
I actually know who this God is.
And he points them to the reality of who Jesus is.
Pastor Ben, I've been so encouraged by the book of Daniel being preached.
I think the reality that we are living in exiles has been really helpful for
me to say, I need to live differently and distinct.
That's the language that comes very consistently to me from hearing it to say,
(26:33):
Daniel and his friends were different and distinct from their culture.
They still actually had success in their jobs politically.
They were still excellent in what they did. And I believe I look at whatever
job I do, I wanna be the best that I can because I wanna honor my King in that,
but I'm gonna have to do it differently and distinct than my coworkers who do not yet know Jesus.
(26:54):
And so I would just love to hear any last encouragements and then just have
you pray for those who are listening.
I guess last encouragements, I just want to encourage people,
man, just get your face in the book.
I mean, just read God's word. It's so rich. It's so encouraging.
And it's such a joy to be in a position where God allows me,
calls me to open his word and share it with the people of Crosspoint.
(27:18):
It's just such a gift. And I think this journey through Daniel has just kind
of reminded me of that gift and And wanting to encourage people that that same
gift is available to them every time they open the Bible.
Yeah. And they ask God to, through the power of his spirit, to just communicate
the truth of his word and impress it upon our hearts.
So I think, you know, hopefully, and just in some conversations I've been having,
(27:38):
it seems like people are resonating with God's word more and more,
which is just so encouraging.
Yeah. That this is real. This is life. This is truth. Yeah. And that's awesome.
So I just would encourage people to stay in the word. Get in there.
Get in there every day, all the time, as best you can.
Put it to memory. Talk to your friends about it. That's so good.
All right, Pastor Ben, will you pray for us? Sure.
(28:01):
Dear Lord, we thank you for your goodness. We thank you, Lord, that you are sovereign.
We thank you, Lord, that you are sovereign over Daniel and his friends going into exile.
We could even say you sent them into exile, Lord, in your sovereign plan.
And the same is true for us, Lord. Lord. We may desire to live in a Christian
culture where everyone shares our worldview,
(28:22):
but Lord, we just pause and recognize that when we may see five angles,
Lord, you see 500,000 angles, and you always know what's best.
And Lord, I pray that you'd help us to embrace that we have been called for
this season, Lord, to be exiles living in a modern Babylon, Lord.
So I pray that we would not just lament it or begrudge it, Lord,
(28:44):
but we would embrace it, that this is what you've called us to.
Pray, Lord, that you would make us faithful to the task. Make us the kind of
people who are fearless, Lord, who are humble, who want to see you glorified.
And we pray, Lord, that you would just continue to use us as your people to make your son known.
We pray this in Jesus' name, amen. Amen.
(29:05):
Well, friends, thank you so much for listening. If you are not subscribed,
I just ask you to subscribe.
It's a blessing for us to know that you are gonna get a notification on your
phone every time we have a new podcast. And if it's a blessing,
thing, please share it with someone.
We always want to have this message go further because we want people to be
living for Christ ultimately. Pray you have an awesome day.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.