May 19, 2023 • 15 mins
Nearly a 100,000 people in Britain were brought up in foster care in the 1970s, 50-year-old Matthew was one of them. Although he knew his birth mother was English, he didn't know his father's identity. Matthew appeared on the second series of DNA Family Secrets to try and find out where his father was from.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So today I'm talking to the rather wonderful Matthew who was on series 2 of DNA Family Secrets,
and who became rather famous in the Seychelles for a little bit after this programme,
but when you came to us for DNA Family Secrets your main question was about your ancestry,
(00:21):
so tell us your story, why did you come to us?So, I was fostered from the age of three up
until the age of 18. So, I was always told that my dad was black and from the Caribbean.
I always knew my mum and the white side, but I had very little information on the black side,
and all I wanted to know really was am I from the Caribbean or not, that was it,
(00:43):
that was the only question I had if you remember.Because it sounds like you had a really lovely
adoption, but from talking to people who've been through similar things to you is, you can have
a really wonderful adoption, but it doesn't stop that being a question as to, what's my identity?
Who am I? So, was that what it was like for you?I grew up with a white family in 1970s Kent, in a
(01:07):
little village. And we were the only black mixed kids for miles and miles and miles, so we always
stuck out like a sore thumb. And whilst there was a lot of racism, there was also curiosity.
We were like circus animals in some respects.I'll give you an example, we'd go to the
hairdressers with our foster mum, she'd get a big bouffant haircut and we got our afro haircut
(01:31):
in the same hairdressers. So, you can imagine the mess that they used to make of our hair,
because I had no idea how to treat afro hair, you know. On reflection it was quite tough,
not having the identity, not knowing where you're from, who you are, and it wasn't until
I met you guys and we found those answers that I realised how much I was missing.
(01:53):
Was there anything that triggered you coming to the programme at all, so sometimes for
people it's like they've had kids, or their parents pass away, or this kind of thing,
is there anything that triggered it for you?There was actually. I was coming up to my 50th
birthday and I saw the advert and I thought why don't you go for it, it's your 50th year, if you
(02:14):
don't do it now, you're never going to do it. So, I applied and forgot all about it to be honest.
So, you came to the programme because you wanted to know about your ancestry on one side, because
you know at this point, you're mixed race.Yeah.
And had you gone through the whole thing where people go, where are you from?
Yeah, I think what's important here as well, that's a good question,
(02:36):
because a lot of people I grew up with never asked that question, they just saw me as white.
On the programme my foster sister Michelle, who's white, she says that she's never thought about the
black side of me because I was just her brother, and as kids you just accept whatever's presented
to you, don't know, as the norm.Yeah.
You know.Did it happen when you get older, was it
(02:57):
something where people go, oh where are you from, and you start to go, oh actually I don't know.
There was a bit of that, but I always thought I was from Jamaica, so my dad was half-Jamaican,
you know that was the end of the story.Apparently it was quite a common thing that
children would get told, oh your parents are from Jamaica, without it necessarily being the case,
because obviously when you came to us and you do a DNA sample, it goes up on various databases and
(03:25):
you're getting matches with different parts of the world, and yours was this amazing,
it was an amazing match, because we were getting these matches, so we're getting them, you know,
in China, and the Philippines, and you know, we're getting them on the east coast of Africa,
and we're getting it up into France, and places, oh my goodness what is this,
(03:45):
and then when you start to see who you're getting matches with, it was obviously French Creole,
Seychelles. So how is that to kind of sit down and go, okay I'm apparently from the Caribbean,
are you thinking at this point this is just going to prove this, or were you always kind of,
I'm open I don't know whether it's Jamaica or not?So, I always had a feeling that the limited
(04:08):
information I was given wasn't correct, I don't know why but I always had a feeling, so when you
confirmed that feeling in some weird way it was a bit of a relief. It gave me validation that
that little thought that I had, or that little knowledge I had about the black side of my family,
for 50 years, was right. So that dispersed very quickly, all I could see was France and
(04:32):
the Seychelles, culture and all these beautiful colours and exotic island. So that flooded in very
quickly, and that stayed with me. So, I love the French element and obviously the Seychelles part,
so suddenly I've become quite exotic.I remember saying at the time, look we cannot
tell you who your biological father is.Yes.
And I remember saying at the time, but you never know because
(04:55):
these databases are growing all of the time.But don't forget I wasn't looking for him was I.
That's right and when you first came you were basically like, I'd like to know about ancestry.
Yeah.But it's always in the back
of our minds like I wonder if somebody's going to pop up on the database. And it's really difficult
because there are certain parts of the world where DNA testing is way more popular than other ones,
and Seychelles to my knowledge is not up there with DNA testing, but you never know
(05:18):
what's going to pop up and I remember saying at the time, it may be that in six months,
a year, somebody pops up on the database who's related to you, and takes you that step closer
to meeting your biological father.And I was really happy with that.
Yeah, but weirdly enough in between us doing the results and the programme going out, somebody popped
(05:41):
up on the date database. So, this was a young lad who looked like it could be a half-siblings child.
So he was very sweet, put me in touch with his dad, who did a DNA test just to completely confirm
and I said, oh can you send through a photo, and he sent through this photo, and all of us were
like oh my goodness, you could see how you two could be half-siblings, but that's what's happened
(06:08):
next isn't it, you now have family, you have a half-brother, and it's how do you develop that
relationship starting at this point in your life?Yeah, I think one of the good things that we've
got going for our brotherhood is that we're both quite open about how we feel. We kind of wear our
hearts on our sleeves to a certain extent. So that kind of helps us very quickly get a balance of who
(06:33):
we both were, and we're not scared to talk about anything, nothing's off the table, because what
we've got to lose, it's been 50 years without each other, really what have you got to lose.
And it didn't stop there.No.
Because after the programme went out, I had been in contact with somebody because he was clearly
related to you, and we hadn't been able to work out quite what the link was. Because obviously
(07:00):
whilst it's all going on I can't tell people too much about you, and I had to be quite careful,
but did say, you know, helping somebody with their family tree you might want to watch the programme,
and he emailed me pretty much instantly after it went out saying, he looks so much like a relative
of mine. This relative had already passed away but I said, you know, do you know whether or not
(07:23):
there's anyone else alive from the family who we could talk to, and he was very sweet and put us
in touch with this man's sister. And she was very kind, said she would do a DNA test, and it must
have been an agonising wait because this person is potentially going to tell you who your biological
father is, so there's a lot riding on it for you.Yeah, and for Carl as well, there's both of us in
(07:47):
this together, so we had each other and we would touch base every couple of weeks about
this subject, we didn't want to open the door too much. It was a strange one because we knew it was
coming down the line, we didn't know when, so we didn't have huge conversations about it,
we didn't want to raise our expectations.And it came back that she was your aunt and that
(08:07):
gave you your father's name, Reginald Charlette.So, we found out roughly three weeks ago. So,
I got an email from our new aunt, and she said I'm your auntie. My gut feeling was
I need to speak to Turi, so I quickly sent you an email didn't I just to say, Turi can you have
a look and you said, 100%, congratulations.You now know who your biological father is.
(08:35):
Yeah, also finding out we've got a family who live 35 minutes away, and they've lived there
throughout my whole life, and they've lived in the area that I was born in, that is quite a lot
to get your head around as well. I always thought well maybe my dad met my mum and then he went off
somewhere, he was traveling through, or was on holiday here, and then to realise that they all
(08:55):
lived in the same town, for all this time.And you could have passed him or
your siblings on the street.Yeah, and my first job was in the same
place as well. I lived in the country where my first job was in Bromley, which is the area they
all kind of live. It's funny because I get people say to me all the time, how was the programme,
how was it, and it's like you're talking about it in a past tense, but for me the programme
(09:18):
was just the part that opened the door. I'm in the middle of something as opposed to the end.
Because you've got quite a big thing coming up tomorrow, haven't you?
So tomorrow my brother Carl's coming up, we're having a little get together and yeah, we're going
to be meeting our new aunties for the first time.So how does that feel?
(09:40):
It feels exciting, it feels daunting, because it's the unknown isn't it.
Yeah.Absolute unknown, but what a great gift.
You really are on a journey.But I'm not on it alone now,
I've got a brother who's on the same Journey because he's got the same questions as I've
got and were doing it together. So, I'm not on my own anymore, which is great.
That sounds really nice, you've got this little brotherhood that
(10:03):
you can kind of face this stuff together now.Yeah, I don't feel that I'm alone with it anymore
and I think it'd be fair to save for Carl, to say that he doesn't feel like he's on his own anymore
in that respect. I felt a little bit guilty at the start because I thought Carl was going along
with his life and suddenly the BBC and me are banging on the door saying, hi I'm your brother.
I don't know how I would feel with someone to come to me like that. I don't know if I would
(10:26):
have dealt with it in quite the same way that Carl did, he took it with grace didn't he and
he was such a gentleman about the whole thing, you know, so I've been lucky in that respect.
And this is a really big thing when doing DNA Family Secrets because we never know
what we're going to get, somebody may not be in the right place in their life to deal with this,
or they may be completely delighted because…Or they could be a serial killer,
(10:53):
we don't think of that do we.I didn't think of that one.
No, but it's a possibility isn't it. It's like going into Leicester Square, closing your eyes,
and just spinning around 10 times and then saying stop and then that person
that you're pointing at is your sibling, you know, it's that random isn't it.
Yeah, and you've got to go up to them and say, hi…
(11:14):
How are you, where do we start this, do you like me?
That must be scary because you're putting yourself out there.
Yeah, so luckily our new aunties they've been really embracing, it's been lovely,
and we felt like the family are really respecting the situation and we know that they want to get to
know us and meet us. The balance has been really respectful, really warm, and really welcoming,
(11:39):
so again that in itself is another gift because I can imagine people in this situation don't really
know how to behave and how to be, because who teaches, there's not a book on that.
And I suppose it's like what you did with Carl, it's like the slowly developing a relationship,
which ordinarily if this person had been your aunt in your life, you would have known for
(11:59):
the last 50 years and now you're meeting them for the first time, so it's that slowly building the
relationship isn't it, and working out what you want that relationship to be.
Yeah, and I think that starts with kind of getting to know each other doesn't it. So, we need that
first initial meeting to start to establish who we are as people and how we move forward.
(12:21):
It's really fundamental this, like really fundamental to who you are,
and I just feel like you just can't get much deeper than that. It's big what we're dealing
with when we do these programmes.My feeling was when I did it,
why would people care about my story and what I've discovered is, when people see you opening
(12:41):
up about something so personal it tends to make them feel that they can open up to you. So,
I had lots of people, and there still are, coming to me with their story and, you know, saying oh
they'd like their DNA done and so it goes beyond me very quickly and becomes about them. That was
quite an amazing discovery, to see that so many people are wanting to know about themselves.
(13:06):
And it's really opened some doors for you hasn't it, stuff has really taken off for you.
It has, so in the programme I talk about growing up in care, I talk about becoming a foster parent
myself, and being a foster parent is something I've always wanted to do because it feels like
I'm kind of giving back, and it also gives me a chance to be a parent which is something I love,
(13:30):
but what I realised very quickly that being a foster parent for me it wasn't quite enough
and I needed to do more to support kids in care, kids who've left care, and the wonderful unsung
heroes who look after these children, because we don't talk about these people. And I started doing
some work with a charity called The Fostering Network who are the number one fostering charity
(13:53):
in the UK, and they support foster parents and foster children. And then a chance come up to
be a trustee and I thought you know what I'd love to be a trustee of that charity.
And what that's done for me, it's given me validation that everything I've done up to
this 50 years like, being fostered, living with a white family, identifying as gay, becoming a
(14:18):
foster parent, working in media, working in business, working in music, it's all come to
this point and now I'll be able to use it in such an exciting way to help support other people.
Well, it’s bringing your experience of having gone through this process yourself,
(14:42):
what you've learned I suppose over the last kind of year or so going through DNA Family Secrets,
but just bringing all of your talents to bear, it sounds like you've been building to this point.
Yeah, and I didn't know it. Up to this point I'm thinking, okay I like doing this,
I like doing that, I've got experience in that, I've got experience in that,
where the hell is this all going. It's like um, what's the old expression, a jack of all trades,
(15:04):
I felt like that. So, what this has done, it's solidified everything, and it feels like I know
where I'm going now, I know who I am in terms of my identity, I know what I want, and I know the
direction of travel, and it feels really good.Matthew, it has been such a delight to talk
to you again and I really do feel you're about to go on and do even bigger things.
So today I'm talking to the rather wonderful Matthew who was on series 2 of DNA Family Secrets,
and who became rather famous in the Seychelles for a little bit after this programme,
but when you came to us for DNA Family Secrets your main question was about your ancestry,
(00:21):
so tell us your story, why did you come to us?So, I was fostered from the age of three up
until the age of 18. So, I was always told that my dad was black and from the Caribbean.
I always knew my mum and the white side, but I had very little information on the black side,
and all I wanted to know really was am I from the Caribbean or not, that was it,
(00:43):
that was the only question I had if you remember.Because it sounds like you had a really lovely
adoption, but from talking to people who've been through similar things to you is, you can have
a really wonderful adoption, but it doesn't stop that being a question as to, what's my identity?
Who am I? So, was that what it was like for you?I grew up with a white family in 1970s Kent, in a
(01:07):
little village. And we were the only black mixed kids for miles and miles and miles, so we always
stuck out like a sore thumb. And whilst there was a lot of racism, there was also curiosity.
We were like circus animals in some respects.I'll give you an example, we'd go to the
hairdressers with our foster mum, she'd get a big bouffant haircut and we got our afro haircut
(01:31):
in the same hairdressers. So, you can imagine the mess that they used to make of our hair,
because I had no idea how to treat afro hair, you know. On reflection it was quite tough,
not having the identity, not knowing where you're from, who you are, and it wasn't until
I met you guys and we found those answers that I realised how much I was missing.
(01:53):
Was there anything that triggered you coming to the programme at all, so sometimes for
people it's like they've had kids, or their parents pass away, or this kind of thing,
is there anything that triggered it for you?There was actually. I was coming up to my 50th
birthday and I saw the advert and I thought why don't you go for it, it's your 50th year, if you
(02:14):
don't do it now, you're never going to do it. So, I applied and forgot all about it to be honest.
So, you came to the programme because you wanted to know about your ancestry on one side, because
you know at this point, you're mixed race.Yeah.
And had you gone through the whole thing where people go, where are you from?
Yeah, I think what's important here as well, that's a good question,
(02:36):
because a lot of people I grew up with never asked that question, they just saw me as white.
On the programme my foster sister Michelle, who's white, she says that she's never thought about the
black side of me because I was just her brother, and as kids you just accept whatever's presented
to you, don't know, as the norm.Yeah.
You know.Did it happen when you get older, was it
(02:57):
something where people go, oh where are you from, and you start to go, oh actually I don't know.
There was a bit of that, but I always thought I was from Jamaica, so my dad was half-Jamaican,
you know that was the end of the story.Apparently it was quite a common thing that
children would get told, oh your parents are from Jamaica, without it necessarily being the case,
because obviously when you came to us and you do a DNA sample, it goes up on various databases and
(03:25):
you're getting matches with different parts of the world, and yours was this amazing,
it was an amazing match, because we were getting these matches, so we're getting them, you know,
in China, and the Philippines, and you know, we're getting them on the east coast of Africa,
and we're getting it up into France, and places, oh my goodness what is this,
(03:45):
and then when you start to see who you're getting matches with, it was obviously French Creole,
Seychelles. So how is that to kind of sit down and go, okay I'm apparently from the Caribbean,
are you thinking at this point this is just going to prove this, or were you always kind of,
I'm open I don't know whether it's Jamaica or not?So, I always had a feeling that the limited
(04:08):
information I was given wasn't correct, I don't know why but I always had a feeling, so when you
confirmed that feeling in some weird way it was a bit of a relief. It gave me validation that
that little thought that I had, or that little knowledge I had about the black side of my family,
for 50 years, was right. So that dispersed very quickly, all I could see was France and
(04:32):
the Seychelles, culture and all these beautiful colours and exotic island. So that flooded in very
quickly, and that stayed with me. So, I love the French element and obviously the Seychelles part,
so suddenly I've become quite exotic.I remember saying at the time, look we cannot
tell you who your biological father is.Yes.
And I remember saying at the time, but you never know because
(04:55):
these databases are growing all of the time.But don't forget I wasn't looking for him was I.
That's right and when you first came you were basically like, I'd like to know about ancestry.
Yeah.But it's always in the back
of our minds like I wonder if somebody's going to pop up on the database. And it's really difficult
because there are certain parts of the world where DNA testing is way more popular than other ones,
and Seychelles to my knowledge is not up there with DNA testing, but you never know
(05:18):
what's going to pop up and I remember saying at the time, it may be that in six months,
a year, somebody pops up on the database who's related to you, and takes you that step closer
to meeting your biological father.And I was really happy with that.
Yeah, but weirdly enough in between us doing the results and the programme going out, somebody popped
(05:41):
up on the date database. So, this was a young lad who looked like it could be a half-siblings child.
So he was very sweet, put me in touch with his dad, who did a DNA test just to completely confirm
and I said, oh can you send through a photo, and he sent through this photo, and all of us were
like oh my goodness, you could see how you two could be half-siblings, but that's what's happened
(06:08):
next isn't it, you now have family, you have a half-brother, and it's how do you develop that
relationship starting at this point in your life?Yeah, I think one of the good things that we've
got going for our brotherhood is that we're both quite open about how we feel. We kind of wear our
hearts on our sleeves to a certain extent. So that kind of helps us very quickly get a balance of who
(06:33):
we both were, and we're not scared to talk about anything, nothing's off the table, because what
we've got to lose, it's been 50 years without each other, really what have you got to lose.
And it didn't stop there.No.
Because after the programme went out, I had been in contact with somebody because he was clearly
related to you, and we hadn't been able to work out quite what the link was. Because obviously
(07:00):
whilst it's all going on I can't tell people too much about you, and I had to be quite careful,
but did say, you know, helping somebody with their family tree you might want to watch the programme,
and he emailed me pretty much instantly after it went out saying, he looks so much like a relative
of mine. This relative had already passed away but I said, you know, do you know whether or not
(07:23):
there's anyone else alive from the family who we could talk to, and he was very sweet and put us
in touch with this man's sister. And she was very kind, said she would do a DNA test, and it must
have been an agonising wait because this person is potentially going to tell you who your biological
father is, so there's a lot riding on it for you.Yeah, and for Carl as well, there's both of us in
(07:47):
this together, so we had each other and we would touch base every couple of weeks about
this subject, we didn't want to open the door too much. It was a strange one because we knew it was
coming down the line, we didn't know when, so we didn't have huge conversations about it,
we didn't want to raise our expectations.And it came back that she was your aunt and that
(08:07):
gave you your father's name, Reginald Charlette.So, we found out roughly three weeks ago. So,
I got an email from our new aunt, and she said I'm your auntie. My gut feeling was
I need to speak to Turi, so I quickly sent you an email didn't I just to say, Turi can you have
a look and you said, 100%, congratulations.You now know who your biological father is.
(08:35):
Yeah, also finding out we've got a family who live 35 minutes away, and they've lived there
throughout my whole life, and they've lived in the area that I was born in, that is quite a lot
to get your head around as well. I always thought well maybe my dad met my mum and then he went off
somewhere, he was traveling through, or was on holiday here, and then to realise that they all
(08:55):
lived in the same town, for all this time.And you could have passed him or
your siblings on the street.Yeah, and my first job was in the same
place as well. I lived in the country where my first job was in Bromley, which is the area they
all kind of live. It's funny because I get people say to me all the time, how was the programme,
how was it, and it's like you're talking about it in a past tense, but for me the programme
(09:18):
was just the part that opened the door. I'm in the middle of something as opposed to the end.
Because you've got quite a big thing coming up tomorrow, haven't you?
So tomorrow my brother Carl's coming up, we're having a little get together and yeah, we're going
to be meeting our new aunties for the first time.So how does that feel?
(09:40):
It feels exciting, it feels daunting, because it's the unknown isn't it.
Yeah.Absolute unknown, but what a great gift.
You really are on a journey.But I'm not on it alone now,
I've got a brother who's on the same Journey because he's got the same questions as I've
got and were doing it together. So, I'm not on my own anymore, which is great.
That sounds really nice, you've got this little brotherhood that
(10:03):
you can kind of face this stuff together now.Yeah, I don't feel that I'm alone with it anymore
and I think it'd be fair to save for Carl, to say that he doesn't feel like he's on his own anymore
in that respect. I felt a little bit guilty at the start because I thought Carl was going along
with his life and suddenly the BBC and me are banging on the door saying, hi I'm your brother.
I don't know how I would feel with someone to come to me like that. I don't know if I would
(10:26):
have dealt with it in quite the same way that Carl did, he took it with grace didn't he and
he was such a gentleman about the whole thing, you know, so I've been lucky in that respect.
And this is a really big thing when doing DNA Family Secrets because we never know
what we're going to get, somebody may not be in the right place in their life to deal with this,
or they may be completely delighted because…Or they could be a serial killer,
(10:53):
we don't think of that do we.I didn't think of that one.
No, but it's a possibility isn't it. It's like going into Leicester Square, closing your eyes,
and just spinning around 10 times and then saying stop and then that person
that you're pointing at is your sibling, you know, it's that random isn't it.
Yeah, and you've got to go up to them and say, hi…
(11:14):
How are you, where do we start this, do you like me?
That must be scary because you're putting yourself out there.
Yeah, so luckily our new aunties they've been really embracing, it's been lovely,
and we felt like the family are really respecting the situation and we know that they want to get to
know us and meet us. The balance has been really respectful, really warm, and really welcoming,
(11:39):
so again that in itself is another gift because I can imagine people in this situation don't really
know how to behave and how to be, because who teaches, there's not a book on that.
And I suppose it's like what you did with Carl, it's like the slowly developing a relationship,
which ordinarily if this person had been your aunt in your life, you would have known for
(11:59):
the last 50 years and now you're meeting them for the first time, so it's that slowly building the
relationship isn't it, and working out what you want that relationship to be.
Yeah, and I think that starts with kind of getting to know each other doesn't it. So, we need that
first initial meeting to start to establish who we are as people and how we move forward.
(12:21):
It's really fundamental this, like really fundamental to who you are,
and I just feel like you just can't get much deeper than that. It's big what we're dealing
with when we do these programmes.My feeling was when I did it,
why would people care about my story and what I've discovered is, when people see you opening
(12:41):
up about something so personal it tends to make them feel that they can open up to you. So,
I had lots of people, and there still are, coming to me with their story and, you know, saying oh
they'd like their DNA done and so it goes beyond me very quickly and becomes about them. That was
quite an amazing discovery, to see that so many people are wanting to know about themselves.
(13:06):
And it's really opened some doors for you hasn't it, stuff has really taken off for you.
It has, so in the programme I talk about growing up in care, I talk about becoming a foster parent
myself, and being a foster parent is something I've always wanted to do because it feels like
I'm kind of giving back, and it also gives me a chance to be a parent which is something I love,
(13:30):
but what I realised very quickly that being a foster parent for me it wasn't quite enough
and I needed to do more to support kids in care, kids who've left care, and the wonderful unsung
heroes who look after these children, because we don't talk about these people. And I started doing
some work with a charity called The Fostering Network who are the number one fostering charity
(13:53):
in the UK, and they support foster parents and foster children. And then a chance come up to
be a trustee and I thought you know what I'd love to be a trustee of that charity.
And what that's done for me, it's given me validation that everything I've done up to
this 50 years like, being fostered, living with a white family, identifying as gay, becoming a
(14:18):
foster parent, working in media, working in business, working in music, it's all come to
this point and now I'll be able to use it in such an exciting way to help support other people.
Well, it’s bringing your experience of having gone through this process yourself,
(14:42):
what you've learned I suppose over the last kind of year or so going through DNA Family Secrets,
but just bringing all of your talents to bear, it sounds like you've been building to this point.
Yeah, and I didn't know it. Up to this point I'm thinking, okay I like doing this,
I like doing that, I've got experience in that, I've got experience in that,
where the hell is this all going. It's like um, what's the old expression, a jack of all trades,
(15:04):
I felt like that. So, what this has done, it's solidified everything, and it feels like I know
where I'm going now, I know who I am in terms of my identity, I know what I want, and I know the
direction of travel, and it feels really good.Matthew, it has been such a delight to talk
to you again and I really do feel you're about to go on and do even bigger things.
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