December 13, 2023 • 41 mins
🎙️ Transparent Leadership: Striking the Right Balance
As a founder, you grapple with significant decisions that could impact your team's lives. The question echoes: How transparent should you be with your team?
Join us in this episode where we unravel the delicate art of transparent leadership. We get it—leading a team is a dynamic dance between openness and discretion. Especially for those of you who are fairly new to the leadership game, the struggle is real.
As a founder, you're not just managing tasks; you're juggling the human side of business. The decisions you make can have a profound impact on your team's livelihoods. The transparency dilemma is universal, and the uncertainty around how much to share can keep you up at night.
Firstly, you're Not Alone—Many Founders Feel This:
Feeling the weight of decisions that could affect your team's jobs? Uncertain about how much to reveal? You're not alone! Tune in as we explore real-world scenarios, share experiences, and provide insights to help you navigate the fine line between transparency and confidentiality.
Discover practical strategies for fostering a transparent culture without oversharing. Learn when transparency is empowering and when it's essential. It's not about baring it all; it's about striking the right balance.
Whether you're facing tough decisions or simply pondering how much to reveal, this episode is your guide. Let's create a leadership culture that's supportive, open, and growth-focused.
Tune in, and let's navigate the transparency journey together. 🎉 #TransparentLeadership #LeadershipDilemma #TeamEmpowerment
Connect with Us:
Share your thoughts on this topic with us on Instagram @pipharland and @iamgeorgiafitzgerald. At Scaling Simplified, we're dedicated to supporting fellow female business owners on the exciting journey to seven figures and beyond and we always love to hear from you. 🚀💼
Book Your Scaling Simplified Day Now!
https://www.georgiafitzgeraldcoaching.com/SS
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, and welcome back to anotherepisode of the Scaling Simplified podcast.
(00:04):
And this week we are talkingabout how transparent you should
be with your team as a leader.
So this is quite a big topic, I think,and one that we all struggle with.
And a lot of clients come tome and we talk about this.
And.
I think as a founder, often we can bedealing with some pretty big stuff, some
(00:25):
big issues, some potential fallout thatyou feel might cost your team their jobs.
, in the worst case scenario, it'sreally stressful to think that
people's lives depend on yourbusiness, the decisions you make and
how you move forward in the business.
But I think.
The most important point thatI want to make on this topic is
(00:47):
that you are not in this alone.
Your team is in this with you.
You know, it is their livelihoods.
It is their jobs.
It is their life as well.
And I think too often we can shelter themfrom what's going on in the business.
And then if things really do gosouth and we only then enlighten
them, they might feel a bit like.
(01:08):
Hey, we could have helped, you know, wecould have helped to get through this.
So how transparent should we be?
And why is it important that webring people into understanding
where the business is, the good, thebad, and the sometimes a bit ugly?
What do you think Pip?
(01:29):
Oh, I love this topic and I thinkit's such a valuable topic to
talk about because it is so true.
We sit with all these stresses on asbusiness owners and you can feel quite
alone often in the stresses that you feel.
And you know, it's definitelysomething I think about a lot, like
how much do you bring people in?
What level do you bring people in?
But ultimately, if the stuffthat's worrying you, there's
(01:51):
a limit isn't there to, to us.
You can hold a lot of stress.
And I think as entrepreneurs,we're actually pretty good at.
You know, dealing with high levels ofstress for long extended periods of
time and thriving off it, to be honest,but there's a limit to the amount of
stress and the amount of space youhave to hold and, you know, worries
(02:12):
and problems and issues and thingsthat you're thinking about before
actually impacts on your day to day.
And if you work with somebody, youknow, for more than about three minutes,
they're going to tell pretty quicklyif you're just not quite on form.
Like if you're just not quiteyour sparkling self or, you
know, we see it within our teams.
You can tell when somebody's not,you know, necessarily had a great
(02:33):
weekend or had some bad news.
You can tell instantly in afriend or in a colleague when
something isn't quite right.
And your team can do this to you too.
You're not, we're not invincible, right?
You know, the same things happen to us.
We can't hide everything from ourteam because our team will know.
And if you don't share some ofthese worries with your team what
can happen is, is that you, theysense that something's wrong.
(02:58):
But you're not then talking aboutit, and that creates this level
of uncertainty within the team.
And, , the trust starts todissolve a little bit, and people
might be a little bit worried.
Is it me?
Did I do something?
Does she just not like theway I'm doing something?
Or, you know, I think people can get verymuch in their heads, and Then start to
worry about things which actually theydo not need to be worrying about at all.
(03:19):
And that's because your persona haschanged a little bit around the team.
And obviously trust is one ofthe key things in creating that
company culture and creating aunified team that works together.
So if you, you know, if you'restarting to actually say the stresses
of things that are happening inthe life and in the business,
(03:40):
and you're not communicating why.
Perhaps you're acting a little differentlyor you're more on top of things than
usual or you're maybe, you know, alittle bit more stress than usual.
Your team might start then tocreate uncertainty themselves,
which is then likely to lead tobad performance, which is going to
create more uncertainty for you.
Yeah, absolutely.
That constant second guessing ofyour work within a team when you are
(04:05):
worried, you know something's wrong,you know that, that your boss is
stressed about something and you'regoing to jump to your own conclusions.
It's my work.
It's the way I've performed in this.
It's the way I'm doing this.
I should be better at that.
And then as soon as you have thatpressure on, you're getting, you're
making more mistakes, aren't you?
And things go the wrongdirection quite quickly.
(04:26):
So I know as leaders, we're worriedabout causing this, you know, unnecessary
stress for our team or creating thisinstability with, with the team members.
So we're kind of struggling with howmuch we tell them, but by not trusting
them to understand that we are fallible,that businesses go through ups and downs.
(04:48):
That we trust them to understandthe problems the business is going
through and to help us move past them.
We're kind of not, we're not really buyinginto our team's full capabilities, are we?
And then, then we're starting towonder, then I would wonder why you
hired that team in the first place.
So you hired this team because youwanted to be able to trust them.
(05:10):
And, and, you know, we've talked aboutthis in other episodes, we want them to
be on top of the outcomes in the business.
So.
We have to feel like we don'tneed to protect them 100%.
We can be a bit transparent whenthere are struggles in the business.
Yeah, and I agree.
You know how you said thatoften if something's wrong, you
immediately jump to it's me.
(05:31):
It's my fault.
You know, if somebody's acting abit strange, you never think, oh,
what's, you know, what's happening intheir life that I can support them.
And you immediately, and we do as humans,because you know, we're built that way.
We're built to look after ourselves.
You immediately think it's me.
I did something wrong.
It's something I've said.
I've not done the work right.
And I think that sometimes as leadersstops us from feeling like we can share
(05:53):
because we're worried that if we're goingto share things, it's actually going to
make our team more anxious, , and, andfeel less secure in their roles or feel
that they're not doing a good enough job.
And also potentially, you know, thingsaren't going well, you might demotivate
people in the team or fear that you'regoing to demotivate people in the team.
And it's again, it's those thoughts,because you're thinking of your team,
(06:16):
actually, you're probably going tocreate demotivation and anxiety by
hiding what's actually happening withthem, rather than not telling them.
But I think that's a very valid fearthat we often hold on to as leaders,
because we want to protect our team.
Absolutely.
And sometimes it's the how,like, how do I tell them?
Like, how do I handle thisslightly sensitive topic?
(06:38):
You know, this financial strugglethat the business is going through
or this potential setback withoutmaking people panic, without turning
it into a really big problem.
And I think Then it's gettingpractical, looking at the information,
thinking about how you want to deliverthat and thinking, okay, I don't
want the team to feel unsettled.
(06:58):
I want them to feel confidentthat we can move past this.
So then we're starting to think about howdo I handle delivering this information
in a way that still makes them feelconfident about the future of this
business, the ability of us to liketackle this as a team and move past it.
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's the how and also the how much,how much am I sharing with the team?
(07:24):
What balance am I going to strikebetween being transparent about
what's going on and also, you know,maintaining that positivity, making
sure that, you know, we're celebratingachievements and progress, no matter
how small and insignificant they mayfeel to you, because you've got all
the stress of everything else going on.
But I think there's that.
balance that we need to think aboutof how much information we're sharing.
(07:45):
And then are we ensuring that we'venot got our full focus on the negative.
We're also making sure that we'rebalanced in celebrating what is
working and keeping that balanceand motivation within the team.
Yeah, absolutely.
It is a big challenge.
And I think the biggest challengewe're going to face, , in, in leading
a team, when we're trying to jugglethese concerns that we have around.
(08:09):
You know, sort of slightly darker timesthat the business is going through is
how we handle things so we can overcomethe team thinking that we're withholding
information or not being authentic.
Because as soon as our team starts tobelieve that it starts to impact the trust
within the team and trust within a team.
(08:31):
is literally the most important thing.
And once we start letting thatslip, that's when things start
to unravel and really go wrong.
So it's a very delicate balancebetween building that trust and that
open communication, but also havinga really good understanding of the
team's dynamics, their needs, likehow much information can they handle?
(08:52):
It can differ from team memberto team member, but can you
give the responsibility of Moreinformation to one than another.
So it's, it's really knowing your teamand how this is going to sit with them.
So let's think about thisa little bit in practice.
Okay.
So imagine that you are leadinga startup and you are facing.
(09:12):
Some financial challenges, perhaps you'vehad a few key client contracts drop out
or you know they're going to drop out.
So as a leader, you know, you know,the spreadsheets, you know, the
numbers, you're starting to feel abit of panic and uncertainty around.
Okay, how are we goingto keep paying salaries?
How do we keep paying for rent?
(09:33):
How do we keep dealing with all thecosts we have as a business while we try
to replace these, the client contracts?
So you might be worrying about this,keeping it to yourself, but we know
once, as we've said, we know whensomeone is debating something in
their head, we know that they're off.
So suddenly your team members arekind of They're noticing there's a
bit of a decline in project volume.
(09:56):
They're sensing there's some instability.
They know they're workingwith the clients every day.
They see that.
But you haven't conveyed.
This is okay.
You know, this is how we'regoing to move past it.
So rumors start, people are kindof speculating amongst themselves.
You know, maybe they're goingto have to lay some people off.
Maybe our jobs are notgoing to be the same.
(10:17):
You know, they, they've jumped toconclusions because there's been this
lack of transparency and that lack oftransparency starts to erode the trust.
Then, you know, the morale, themorale starts to falter and you.
And this all happens becausepeople feel like they'd be
left in the dark a little bit.
So you might even then have teammembers who think, God, maybe I
(10:39):
should start looking for another job.
Maybe the wheels are coming off here.
You know, maybe I need to startthinking about where else I should go.
I should protect myself.
And often those are your teammembers that are the most
proactive, the most motivated.
So you might be losing your bestteam members or they're already
starting to think about exiting.
(11:01):
, and it's really because you just haven'tgiven any information on the situation.
They can see with their own eyes what'shappening in terms of client volume.
They can see that you're not yourself.
So they've jumped to allsorts of conclusions.
And I think Any of us that have everworked in any team where there's been
some uncertainty and we've had someonethat hasn't convey, you know, the
(11:22):
stormy waters that we're going through.
We've seen teams jumping toconclusions and making rash
decisions and sort of moving on.
So when things are challenging inthe business, it's really key to try
and foster that trust in the team,kind of keep the team informed.
One of the The best ways I see peoplelead a team is with vulnerability,
(11:49):
being vulnerable in these timesas a leader opens the trust and
the empathy within the team.
It kind of brings people together and, andif they are committed to the business, if
they are bought into your brand, if theyenjoy where they're working, everyone
will pull together and start moving.
(12:09):
out of the stormy waters,moving the ship forward.
But it starts with that little bitof vulnerability from the leader and
opening up that trust and communication.
when you as a leader are vulnerable, youallow people, you give them the space.
To bring their concerns.
And I think often our team,you know, they do not stupid.
(12:31):
They know that something's not right,but they possibly don't feel that they
can raise these concerns because maybethey're seeing you and they're thinking,
Oh my Lord, she is stressed this week.
This is not the week to have theconversation about, you know, is my
job safe or what are we doing aboutthe, you know, the lack of sales
coming in or whatever it might be.
And I think when you lead with thatvulnerability and say, look, you know,
(12:53):
things aren't as great as they've been,these are some of the issues we're dealing
with, it allows, it opens up the door andlets people bring their concerns to you.
And I think having that space tonot only voice your own concerns,
and we'll talk about, you know, howmuch we should in a second, but.
Also allowing your team to be able toask questions, voice their concerns
(13:13):
will often be all they need to go.
No, it's okay.
She's got a handle on this.
Like things are okay, but oftenpeople just need to voice those.
Cause if not, the thoughts go roundand round, you know, in your head
and you don't, you want your team tobe , sitting, thinking about all the
things that are going wrong, ratherthan just getting on with their job.
Pip, have you got any examplesfrom your own business?
(13:34):
Because I know you've been leadinga team for a long time now.
So, oh gosh, there are so many thingsI can think of when it comes to, you
know, when things haven't gone rightor when you've had to be transparent.
There's been times where we've hadto cut hours down for people, you
know, when we've been really affectedby changes in the economic climate.
There's been times when peoplehave been fired or left, where
(13:57):
you've had to communicate.
Why that's been, , you know, which isa difficult conversation to have this
times when, you know, we haven't hitsales targets that we wanted to hit.
And, you know, everybody's beenworking hard and it's no one's fault.
And you have that sort of completelyunmotivated team because we've all
been working really hard and forwhatever reason it didn't happen.
(14:19):
And these are all times where.
You know, if you come in as a leader,you know, and I can think of several
times where, you know, I have beenpeeing my pants a little bit behind
the scenes, you know, ready for thisconversation that I don't really
want to have, but the sooner you haveit, gosh, the weight that is lifted.
did once you've had that conversation.
(14:40):
And I think often we sit and we strewon these things and we obsess so much
about how much we're going to share,what we're going to share, exactly
how we're going to communicate it.
The exact words we're going to say andtry and have a, an answer ready for
every question that we might be asked.
We get so on our heads about it thatactually by the time you just come out
and say it, it never goes quite to plan.
(15:02):
But every single time I foundthat it's really brought that
team together back again.
And it's really like fostered this, like,okay, how are we going to deal with this?
What are we going to do?
And every single time, this is whereyou see, you know, the leaders in
the team step up and you really seethose people that you're like, yes,
you are ride and dime team members.
And you know, I'm going to support youto the end and you will support me.
(15:24):
And, you know, I think it's just oneof those things, as you say, leading
with vulnerability and just gettingon with it makes such a difference.
But one thing I would say onthat is you don't have to share
everything, you know, we talk aboutinforming the team and I think it's
important, you know, you've got to becomfortable with what you are sharing.
You don't need to give, you know, if it'sa financial problem, you don't need to
(15:46):
give the exact breakdown, you know, we'rein our overdraft and I can't actually,
I don't know where the money's coming topay your salary this month that, you know.
There are certain things which I don'tthink are productive to share, if somebody
asks me outright, I will never lie tosomebody, but I'm possibly won't, you
know, share details that don't need tobe shared or share details with somebody
(16:07):
that actually relate to somebody else.
I don't think that's fair to do either.
, I also think in terms of like that exampleof we are in our overdraft, you know,
if you just share that, that once, andactually you don't mention, but we're
often in our overdraft and it's not asbad as it sounds, that team member who
may be finance isn't their strong suitand understanding the inner workings of
(16:31):
how a business is put together, that couldsend them into an absolute panic mode.
Yeah, you don't need to get right intothe detail if that person hasn't had the
full picture before and isn't necessarilygoing to understand that detail.
But also, we have to trust that, youknow, our teams are smart and they get it.
So we can give them some of thebasics to paint the picture without
(16:54):
putting the fear of God in them.
Yeah, totally agree.
It's all about having that plan andpainting the overall picture, isn't it?
And I think when you're communicatingwhat's maybe not going to plan and, you
know, explaining the challenges thatyou're currently facing, it's painting
that picture within, this is where weare now, but you know, we've been here
before and we've got through it andthis has happened and this is the plan.
(17:16):
And I think it's givingpeople action steps.
I think it's really easyto present a problem.
And if you don't, Provide some solutions.
People can easily get into panic mode.
And even if you don't have the perfectsolution yet, and actually you need your
team to help come up with the solution,I think going to that conversation with
a couple of potential solutions justallows everybody to breathe out and relax.
(17:41):
And then when you're having thatconversation, about the action plan,
it's a lot easier then to get peopleto come in, not from a place of fear,
they're coming from a really proactiveplace where they're going, okay, well,
we've got, we've got plan A, we've gotplan B, but maybe we can come up with
plan C because, five people thinkingis going to be better than one person
(18:01):
thinking, but I think giving almost abit, you know, you know, when you're
bowling and you have those littleInflatable rail things that coming up.
It's like putting thoselittle rails in place.
So you're kind of like we'resteering in this general direction.
Don't worry.
I've got you.
Even if in your head, you may bethinking, maybe we don't quite have
you, but I think giving that a littlebit of a little bit of safety to your
(18:21):
team, then really helps you really openup where you can go in terms of fixing
the problem and getting everybody'sbuy in to help support moving forward.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because keeping that safety means peopleare much more likely to still push things,
you know, like as soon as we get worried,as soon as we feel like the perimeter
(18:42):
is coming in, we play really safe.
And that's actually when we don'tmove as far forward in the business.
So we kind of want to keep thatsafety, get the team involved, like
encourage, you know, that dialogueto open up, get them to seek their
input, get their ideas, you know.
This is where we are.
These are the problems.
These are the barriers.
These are the obstacles, butwe're not actually sinking.
(19:04):
You know, you want them to keep pushingit forward and collectively come up with
some really good ideas, take ownershipof problems, collaborate on stuff.
And by starting by opening thatdialogue yourself, by being kind of
honest and open and saying there isa problem, then that helps your team
jump in and, and help you solve it.
(19:26):
And also open up further down the lineif they have problems with stuff, you
know, they're not then hiding if acertain area of the business that they're
responsible for is not doing so well.
You know, this is a culture where we say,okay, this is not as good as it could be.
But let's work out how we canmove it forward as a team, and it
gives everybody that confidence.
Also, we're then, we're not justlanding this bombshell on our team, and
(19:51):
then never giving any feedback on it.
I've definitely seenthis happen, you know?
Like, a leader has opened up and said,you know what, we're going through a
bit of SH1T at the moment, and We needeveryone on board to kind of solve it.
And you're like, okay, great.
Let's try and help.
But then they've nevercome back to communicate.
Hey, we're actually moving forwardfaster than we thought we could.
(20:13):
We're totally, you know,moving out of the water now.
Please don't worry about your jobs.
Everything's fine.
Or, you know, these are theamazing changes that we've made.
Each team member is workingin a different department.
They can't necessarily seethe leaps forward that another
department might be making.
So it's really important to keep updatingthe team on that situation, like manage
(20:35):
the expectations, keep the team involvedas much as you need to, but let them know
when you're like out of the woods as well.
And I think with that as well, it's,it's not only keeping people updated,
but also keeping the doors open.
So as people's worries.
Change, as you know, you're fixingthe problem, as they will, because
(20:56):
the initial worry will be different tothe worry that's a month later and the
worry that's a month later from that.
It's continuing to keep that door openso your team can bring any concerns to
you and you're making sure you're gettingon top of any of those little niggles
really early on so they don't spiral intosomething that then is actually another
issue for you to be stressing about.
Yeah, absolutely.
(21:16):
Really important to keep that going.
I think also in these situations, this iswhen we can really get back to emphasizing
the areas where our team strengths are.
So whenever people are hiring and bringingin teams, I always want them to know.
Each team member, what istheir area of expertise?
What is the question thatthey're always asking?
(21:37):
Every team member should have onequestion that they can ask that gets
them to push their job that bit further.
So say, for example, you were systemsand processes, you might always be asking
yourself, how can I make this simpler?
How can I make this more effective?
So then we're like reallygetting back into, okay, where
is each person's strength?
How can that person How can thatperson move forward in their area?
(22:00):
How can that person moveforward with their strengths?
And collectively, we're allmoving forward on this challenge.
And I think there's nothing,there's nothing like a challenge
in a business to unite the teamand get them to work together.
Like if we think of all the TV shows,like Survivor, I'm a Celebrity, all
these people that freaking hate eachother and they come in and they're like
(22:22):
encouraging each other to eat worms sothey can all have something nice to eat.
But.
That kind of collective challenge,like really, really motivates the team.
So yes, it's a terrible time to begoing through like these struggles
in the business, but it's also anopportunity to really unite the team
and actually move forward in amazingways that we perhaps wouldn't have
(22:46):
if that challenge hadn't come up.
So it's just about maintaining thattrust, get the anxiety levels down because
we've been open about where we're at.
And get the team to work together tohit those targets and maybe even surpass
like the financial situation that youwere in before the struggle arrived.
Yeah, I love that.
(23:07):
I love how you're bringingI'm Celebrity into business,
but it is literally so true.
It's having that common enemy, and ifyou've got that common, common enemy, you
will want to work together to fight it.
And if that is, you know, a lack ofsales, well then, You're just pulling
everybody in together, aren't you?
To, to fight and solve that problem.
And I know a lot of the time with, youknow, worries that we have as business
(23:29):
owners and sharing with the team, youknow, financial issues are often the
first thing we think about it's, youknow, we don't have enough money or
we're worried about sales or costs, butthere are other things as well that might
be happening in the business, which.
Can kind of put us in a difficultposition as a leader about how
much do we share or we not share.
So I'd love to know, Georgia, fromyour perspective, if we've fired
(23:51):
someone, say, or a team member'sbeen moved on because they're not
performing, , how do we deal with this?
Because obviously we can't not sayanything and just turn up one day and
there's just somebody not there inthe team meeting because, you know,
that's pretty obvious and a bit of anawkward elephant in the room situation.
But also, you know, there's a degree, youknow, to respecting people and not putting
(24:13):
the fear of, you know, God and peoplethat they're going to lose their jobs.
How would you go around dealingwith a situation like that and
communicating that with the team?
Please don't fire people and thenjust never mention them ever again.
They never existed becausefirstly, that is just weird.
And also whether or not that persondidn't work out, they probably have.
(24:36):
Added some value to thebusiness in some way.
And I think that shouldalways be celebrated.
, it's really similar togiving any type of feedback.
This is never an attackon somebody's personality.
This is never about.
This person just wasn't good enough,or they just, they just, we just
didn't really like them in the teamor they created a bad atmosphere.
(24:59):
It has to be much moreconstructive than that.
Now, it can be a really goodopportunity to showcase what you're
trying to achieve in the business andperhaps When people, one, fall short.
So, the main thing is I want youto think about how do you want your
team to feel hearing about this?
(25:20):
How do you want them to relate tothis experience of somebody that
perhaps didn't meet up to certaincriteria that you were hiring for
or you had asked them to achieve?
So, it's kind of getting a little bitspecific in areas, but not so specific
that you're slagging off to what extentthat person could do their job because
(25:41):
that's not necessary for anyone.
And also remember the team member thatyou're talking about will be friends
with your other team members probably.
They will have had conversations aroundthe struggles that they were having and
there's always two sides to the truth.
So we're not trying to Like make them lookbad or that they weren't a good person.
(26:01):
We're just being honestin terms of the situation.
So for example, say you had tolet somebody go because you had
taken them on to manage a project.
But actually, really, they neededtoo much management from you.
So their, their work style wassomebody that loved to be given
a list of things to work through,and then be given another list.
(26:24):
But actually you needed someone thatcould really oversee the project.
So perhaps you're saying, Okay,unfortunately we've parted ways.
We've realized that X's capabilitiesjust didn't match what this role
needed, which meant that she wasn'tenjoying it day to day because we were
almost giving her too much autonomy.
Perhaps you're not going to say it in thatway, but that's basically what's happened.
(26:47):
The role is actually feltstressful for her because she
hasn't quite got the right skills.
For the project management thatwe need now, potentially that's
on us for not hiring the rightperson in the first place.
And we realized that, but it alsomeant that this was no longer an
enjoyable role for her becauseshe couldn't keep up with the
(27:08):
expectations of the project management.
So you've made it quite clear thatit wasn't right for both of you.
And I think it's just having thatopenness, but never in that did we.
belittle her, what she does or theway she does it because actually
she's a phenomenal person atworking through a list but we needed
something slightly different in thisrole and she didn't have that which
(27:28):
was making it stressful for her.
That is so useful Georgia and I feellike that's a podcast episode you need
to save so when you're about to have thisconversation you can just listen to that
little section again and be like right.
I'm ready to go have this conversationwith my team because, you know, I know
from personal experience, it is, it'sbad enough firing someone, that's a
conversation no one wants to have, right?
(27:49):
And then it's even as bad, and thenit's just as bad, having to go and
tell your team and, you know, have theworries that people might fear that their
job's at risk and, you know, all theother things that come into your head.
And I think if you can go in, as you say,in your very Matter of fact about it.
And you, you never belittlesomebody and you celebrate what
(28:09):
they have brought to the business.
, and, and it's an opportunity tohighlight, you know, what good looks
like in the business and maybe whatbad looks like in the business.
It helps clarify that to your team.
And I think being really honestabout it then allows them to bring
any questions or concerns to you.
And it, it just stops it from being areally awkward conversation, which, you
(28:31):
know, by not having the conversationis made super awkward, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
We don't want all that sort ofwhispering in the background with what,
I mean, we talked about this earlier.
We've both been in situations wherepeople have left the business and
nothing has ever been said about it.
It's just, it's so weird though.
Like when you, you know, someone's inthe business and they're suddenly just
(28:53):
not there and nobody says anything.
And I mean, I've only everexperienced this in corporate,
but it's just, it's odd.
And then, then the whispermill and the rumor mill starts.
And that is.
So much worse, and that's what, asa boss, you want to like, cut off
at the neck before it even beginsbecause the last thing you want
is the rumours flying around theteam about what actually happened.
(29:14):
Yeah, because for the first two days itdetracts from anyone doing any actual
work because they're trying to get tothe bottom of this detective mystery.
I love it.
Okay, so the key to this then isbeing really clear on what we're
saying, going in with a bit of a plan.
, I often find that I will write a fewbullet points down if I'm, if I'm
(29:36):
a little worried about exactly howI'm going to communicate something,
I'll have a think about it before Icommunicate it, write down some bullets.
So I'm sticking to my pointsand we always make it about the
role and never about the person.
And I think this, you know, thistranslates into so many conversations
you can have within your team.
But let's think about then, , some ofthe things that really help us understand
(30:01):
why being transparent is useful inthe team and some of the, the benefits
of transparency has within a team.
Absolutely.
Okay.
So number one, that opencommunication is going to build trust.
, if you are openly sharing information,both positive stuff, challenging stuff
that's going on, you're going to builda culture of trust and honesty, which
(30:24):
means your team members are goingto come forward with stuff to you.
And you're not protecting anyone thenby telling the truth, because that
would be doing them a disservice.
You're actually saying these are problems.
This is how I want us to try andhackle it, let's, let's, let's
all get involved, basically.
But you're also balancing thattransparency with positivity.
(30:49):
So we're not just telling peoplethat the whole world is ending,
the business is falling apart, andthen we're just going to sort of.
Wallow in that for two days untileverybody feels completely demotivated.
Demotivated.
We're sort of saying, youknow, this is the problem.
, but we are backing itup with positive things.
So we've been here before.
This is what we've di we did.
(31:10):
You know, this isn't actuallythe end of the world.
The tipping point for making thisbetter is this, and we're aiming for
this, you know, so we're looking forthe positive actions to move forward.
And how we can kind of maintainthat morale and motivation and bring
the team together to work on stuff.
Yeah.
And I think it's all about getting theteam involved in that decision making.
(31:31):
And I can think about areally good example of this.
When I got long COVID earlier thisyear, I obviously Was my brain
frog was out of control and my teampicked up on this very quickly.
So obviously I had to stepback and work a lot less.
And I really encourage my team atthis stage to help make decisions
about what was important, whichbits of my role they could pick up.
(31:54):
And rather than me going, Ineed you to do this, this, this.
I opened up the conversationand people were volunteering.
Well, why don't I do this bit?
Cause this I'm reallycomfortable doing this bit.
And you know, why don't Ipick up this bit from you?
Because I already know how to do it.
I've spoken to this person about it.
And that then meant because peopleare involved in it, they don't
feel that there's something bad.
(32:15):
They don't feel that they're being forcedto do something or feel uncomfortable.
They feel a part of it.
And I think then when you'reasking people to step up, it's a
lot easier if people feel like.
They've made the decision to stepup rather than you forcing them
to step up because that's, that'sreally not going to help you.
And I think within that thenis really setting those clear
(32:35):
expectations, like communicatingwhere we're trying to get to.
We know that this is goingto be a tipping point.
We know it's a hard time, butthis is what we're aiming for.
And being really transparentabout everybody's involvement
in getting towards that.
So everybody knows.
You know, walking away, they'renot sat still in the fear.
They're like, right, I know exactlywhat I need to do with my job.
(32:56):
I know what good looks like.
I know what we're aiming for as a team.
And then it helps people see thatprogress and keeps them motivated.
Cause they're like, well, one step closer.
We signed one more client or we'vesold another 10 K worth of this product
this month or whatever it might be.
And I know that my part is actuallyactively helping us get out of this
little hole that we're in at the moment.
Absolutely.
(33:16):
I love that.
And that links in with thosekind of regular updates.
So if you're going to be transparent,then you have to keep giving regular
updates of how things are changing,how things are improving, like what's
the company's progress, like how are wemeeting these future plans that we set.
And it's going to helpwith those expectations.
And it's going to massivelyreduce any uncertainty.
(33:38):
So everyone stays kind of motivated.
, and I think we've said before, like,your team aren't stupid, they know,
they know when something is amiss,whether that is a team member is
underperforming, you're a little bitstressed, whatever it is, be proactive
in addressing those concerns, you know,if your team are raising concerns, like
be proactive, we're dealing with that.
(34:00):
We've got to be kind of Responsiveto these things and show that we're
committed to this open communication,you know, that we want our team to be
happy and feel secure and motivated andlook after their well being, really.
So, yeah, address these thingsquickly, be proactive about stuff.
(34:20):
Yeah, and I think it's important alsoto understand that it's okay to use
discretion and, you know, carefully choosewhat information is shared with different
people in the level of information.
You know, there have definitely beentimes where things haven't been going to
plan or there's been an issue with theteam, and I will speak to one or two.
You know, more senior members of theteam or people that I trust who've
(34:42):
been with the business for a lotlonger, who are in a management role.
And, you know, there are certain, there'scertain bits of information I will share
with them, but I'm not going to shareout with junior members of the team
because they don't need to be worriedthat something's not happened or we're
struggling with this or the other, youknow, the real intricate details of it.
So I think it's understanding.
You know, what do I need to tell what'scritical that I share and who is it that
(35:06):
I'm sharing with because I've definitelyfound that, you know, being very
transparent with senior members of theteam has really allowed me to get a really
good action path and then together we'vecrafted how we're going to share this out.
with the wider team.
And that not only allows you to sortof, you have the confidence then because
you've already got a step ahead and you,other people in the team know what's
(35:28):
going on to the level that they need to.
And it, you know, it's a really difficultbalance with all these things, but I
think trusting your gut there and knowingwhere somebody's skills might really help
you with something is really important.
And it takes away the pressure.
From you explaining, you know, all theway up from your ops manager down to
customer services, the intricate detailsof your P& L when things are not going
(35:49):
well, which you don't need to be doing,you know, certain people aren't going
to understand all bits of information.
So thinking, okay.
What pieces of information do youreally need to understand about this?
Like if it's a website issue,the tech side of things really
need to understand how bad it is.
But you know, someone in customerservices, they don't need to
understand the details of it, butthey do need to understand the impact
(36:10):
and what that then means for them.
So I think it's okay to use thatdiscretion and it's okay to, you
know, as, as long as the messageis clear and cohesive for everyone.
So you don't suddenly have threedifferent stories being painted, you
know, it's okay for some people to know.
A little bit more that's very relevant totheir role and other people, you know, to
know just what they need for that role.
(36:31):
and I suppose what comes with that isthinking about your communication style,
you know, everybody's different, right?
And some people want to know the hardtruth, the facts, say it to them that,
you know, they're not going to be worried.
They don't need things sugarcoated.
They don't, you know.
that we're going to say a positive, thenwe're going to tell you the bad thing,
but then we're going to say the positive.
They're like, I want to know the facts.
I want to know what the plan is.
(36:52):
And the very matter of fact, wherethere are going to be other members
of your team, you know, who are maybea bit more emotional and you need to
kind of paint a bit more of a pictureand, you know, really make sure that
you spend time explaining where theyfit in and what that means for them.
And I think a lot of thetime is understanding.
How somebody's thought process worksand then going, well, this is how best
(37:14):
to communicate with you about thisone thing I think is really important
because, you know, what you communicatewith your customers, if something's
going wrong, it's completely differentto what you're going to communicate
with your team, which is again, probablyreally different with what you're going
to communicate with your, you know,director of staff or operating manager,
who's like your, your right hand person.
(37:35):
So it's, it's really understandingwhat am I sharing with.
Each, each personal group and howam I explaining myself to them?
Yeah, I love that.
There's a quote, , they won'tremember what you said, they won't
remember what you did, but they'llremember how you made them feel.
And I think when we're trying tocommunicate these changes with our team,
that's what we're trying to get to.
(37:56):
We, we're almost trying to beto the point about this is the
problem, but we're delivering it ina way that shows them that we give
a shit how it's affecting them.
That, you know, we, we care, we'recompassionate, we want, we want
to solve this and make this work.
And I think you will come up withso many different obstacles like
this when you're leading a business.
(38:16):
But if we can reflect on the onesthat we have had before, you know,
what worked well, how did we deliversomething that actually It did go down
quite well and people understood andthey embraced and they got on board
or where was the situation where wemaybe didn't share as much as we should
have and actually we had to share itlater on the team really stepped up.
(38:36):
You know, so if you can think about howyou've done things before and constantly
refine that process, improve on it,you know, adapt how you deliver things,
how you contribute, like how you buildthat culture of continuous improvement.
It's going to really changethe way things move forward.
I think the key point is,it's about whatever feels
(38:58):
comfortable for you, isn't it?
You know, it's your business,it's your level of communication.
The ground rule should be, ifit's something that's worrying
you, you need to talk about it.
You should talk about it.
But, is it for your team?
Is it them that you need to talk about it?
Or is it somewhere else?
You know, as entrepreneurs, weare going to have these struggles.
(39:20):
So, we need to decide.
Do I share this with my team?
Do I share this with anotherentrepreneur that's going to
understand this struggle better andcan actually help me bounce some ideas?
Or am I going to take this to my coachand discuss the options with them?
So sometimes we want to be transparentwith the team, but we always need
(39:40):
to think about actually, we needto talk about this with someone,
so who is best placed to help us?
Hello, and welcome back to anotherepisode of the Scaling Simplified podcast.
(00:04):
And this week we are talkingabout how transparent you should
be with your team as a leader.
So this is quite a big topic, I think,and one that we all struggle with.
And a lot of clients come tome and we talk about this.
And.
I think as a founder, often we can bedealing with some pretty big stuff, some
(00:25):
big issues, some potential fallout thatyou feel might cost your team their jobs.
, in the worst case scenario, it'sreally stressful to think that
people's lives depend on yourbusiness, the decisions you make and
how you move forward in the business.
But I think.
The most important point thatI want to make on this topic is
(00:47):
that you are not in this alone.
Your team is in this with you.
You know, it is their livelihoods.
It is their jobs.
It is their life as well.
And I think too often we can shelter themfrom what's going on in the business.
And then if things really do gosouth and we only then enlighten
them, they might feel a bit like.
(01:08):
Hey, we could have helped, you know, wecould have helped to get through this.
So how transparent should we be?
And why is it important that webring people into understanding
where the business is, the good, thebad, and the sometimes a bit ugly?
What do you think Pip?
(01:29):
Oh, I love this topic and I thinkit's such a valuable topic to
talk about because it is so true.
We sit with all these stresses on asbusiness owners and you can feel quite
alone often in the stresses that you feel.
And you know, it's definitelysomething I think about a lot, like
how much do you bring people in?
What level do you bring people in?
But ultimately, if the stuffthat's worrying you, there's
(01:51):
a limit isn't there to, to us.
You can hold a lot of stress.
And I think as entrepreneurs,we're actually pretty good at.
You know, dealing with high levels ofstress for long extended periods of
time and thriving off it, to be honest,but there's a limit to the amount of
stress and the amount of space youhave to hold and, you know, worries
(02:12):
and problems and issues and thingsthat you're thinking about before
actually impacts on your day to day.
And if you work with somebody, youknow, for more than about three minutes,
they're going to tell pretty quicklyif you're just not quite on form.
Like if you're just not quiteyour sparkling self or, you
know, we see it within our teams.
You can tell when somebody's not,you know, necessarily had a great
(02:33):
weekend or had some bad news.
You can tell instantly in afriend or in a colleague when
something isn't quite right.
And your team can do this to you too.
You're not, we're not invincible, right?
You know, the same things happen to us.
We can't hide everything from ourteam because our team will know.
And if you don't share some ofthese worries with your team what
can happen is, is that you, theysense that something's wrong.
(02:58):
But you're not then talking aboutit, and that creates this level
of uncertainty within the team.
And, , the trust starts todissolve a little bit, and people
might be a little bit worried.
Is it me?
Did I do something?
Does she just not like theway I'm doing something?
Or, you know, I think people can get verymuch in their heads, and Then start to
worry about things which actually theydo not need to be worrying about at all.
(03:19):
And that's because your persona haschanged a little bit around the team.
And obviously trust is one ofthe key things in creating that
company culture and creating aunified team that works together.
So if you, you know, if you'restarting to actually say the stresses
of things that are happening inthe life and in the business,
(03:40):
and you're not communicating why.
Perhaps you're acting a little differentlyor you're more on top of things than
usual or you're maybe, you know, alittle bit more stress than usual.
Your team might start then tocreate uncertainty themselves,
which is then likely to lead tobad performance, which is going to
create more uncertainty for you.
Yeah, absolutely.
That constant second guessing ofyour work within a team when you are
(04:05):
worried, you know something's wrong,you know that, that your boss is
stressed about something and you'regoing to jump to your own conclusions.
It's my work.
It's the way I've performed in this.
It's the way I'm doing this.
I should be better at that.
And then as soon as you have thatpressure on, you're getting, you're
making more mistakes, aren't you?
And things go the wrongdirection quite quickly.
(04:26):
So I know as leaders, we're worriedabout causing this, you know, unnecessary
stress for our team or creating thisinstability with, with the team members.
So we're kind of struggling with howmuch we tell them, but by not trusting
them to understand that we are fallible,that businesses go through ups and downs.
(04:48):
That we trust them to understandthe problems the business is going
through and to help us move past them.
We're kind of not, we're not really buyinginto our team's full capabilities, are we?
And then, then we're starting towonder, then I would wonder why you
hired that team in the first place.
So you hired this team because youwanted to be able to trust them.
(05:10):
And, and, you know, we've talked aboutthis in other episodes, we want them to
be on top of the outcomes in the business.
So.
We have to feel like we don'tneed to protect them 100%.
We can be a bit transparent whenthere are struggles in the business.
Yeah, and I agree.
You know how you said thatoften if something's wrong, you
immediately jump to it's me.
(05:31):
It's my fault.
You know, if somebody's acting abit strange, you never think, oh,
what's, you know, what's happening intheir life that I can support them.
And you immediately, and we do as humans,because you know, we're built that way.
We're built to look after ourselves.
You immediately think it's me.
I did something wrong.
It's something I've said.
I've not done the work right.
And I think that sometimes as leadersstops us from feeling like we can share
(05:53):
because we're worried that if we're goingto share things, it's actually going to
make our team more anxious, , and, andfeel less secure in their roles or feel
that they're not doing a good enough job.
And also potentially, you know, thingsaren't going well, you might demotivate
people in the team or fear that you'regoing to demotivate people in the team.
And it's again, it's those thoughts,because you're thinking of your team,
(06:16):
actually, you're probably going tocreate demotivation and anxiety by
hiding what's actually happening withthem, rather than not telling them.
But I think that's a very valid fearthat we often hold on to as leaders,
because we want to protect our team.
Absolutely.
And sometimes it's the how,like, how do I tell them?
Like, how do I handle thisslightly sensitive topic?
(06:38):
You know, this financial strugglethat the business is going through
or this potential setback withoutmaking people panic, without turning
it into a really big problem.
And I think Then it's gettingpractical, looking at the information,
thinking about how you want to deliverthat and thinking, okay, I don't
want the team to feel unsettled.
(06:58):
I want them to feel confidentthat we can move past this.
So then we're starting to think about howdo I handle delivering this information
in a way that still makes them feelconfident about the future of this
business, the ability of us to liketackle this as a team and move past it.
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's the how and also the how much,how much am I sharing with the team?
(07:24):
What balance am I going to strikebetween being transparent about
what's going on and also, you know,maintaining that positivity, making
sure that, you know, we're celebratingachievements and progress, no matter
how small and insignificant they mayfeel to you, because you've got all
the stress of everything else going on.
But I think there's that.
balance that we need to think aboutof how much information we're sharing.
(07:45):
And then are we ensuring that we'venot got our full focus on the negative.
We're also making sure that we'rebalanced in celebrating what is
working and keeping that balanceand motivation within the team.
Yeah, absolutely.
It is a big challenge.
And I think the biggest challengewe're going to face, , in, in leading
a team, when we're trying to jugglethese concerns that we have around.
(08:09):
You know, sort of slightly darker timesthat the business is going through is
how we handle things so we can overcomethe team thinking that we're withholding
information or not being authentic.
Because as soon as our team starts tobelieve that it starts to impact the trust
within the team and trust within a team.
(08:31):
is literally the most important thing.
And once we start letting thatslip, that's when things start
to unravel and really go wrong.
So it's a very delicate balancebetween building that trust and that
open communication, but also havinga really good understanding of the
team's dynamics, their needs, likehow much information can they handle?
(08:52):
It can differ from team memberto team member, but can you
give the responsibility of Moreinformation to one than another.
So it's, it's really knowing your teamand how this is going to sit with them.
So let's think about thisa little bit in practice.
Okay.
So imagine that you are leadinga startup and you are facing.
(09:12):
Some financial challenges, perhaps you'vehad a few key client contracts drop out
or you know they're going to drop out.
So as a leader, you know, you know,the spreadsheets, you know, the
numbers, you're starting to feel abit of panic and uncertainty around.
Okay, how are we goingto keep paying salaries?
How do we keep paying for rent?
(09:33):
How do we keep dealing with all thecosts we have as a business while we try
to replace these, the client contracts?
So you might be worrying about this,keeping it to yourself, but we know
once, as we've said, we know whensomeone is debating something in
their head, we know that they're off.
So suddenly your team members arekind of They're noticing there's a
bit of a decline in project volume.
(09:56):
They're sensing there's some instability.
They know they're workingwith the clients every day.
They see that.
But you haven't conveyed.
This is okay.
You know, this is how we'regoing to move past it.
So rumors start, people are kindof speculating amongst themselves.
You know, maybe they're goingto have to lay some people off.
Maybe our jobs are notgoing to be the same.
(10:17):
You know, they, they've jumped toconclusions because there's been this
lack of transparency and that lack oftransparency starts to erode the trust.
Then, you know, the morale, themorale starts to falter and you.
And this all happens becausepeople feel like they'd be
left in the dark a little bit.
So you might even then have teammembers who think, God, maybe I
(10:39):
should start looking for another job.
Maybe the wheels are coming off here.
You know, maybe I need to startthinking about where else I should go.
I should protect myself.
And often those are your teammembers that are the most
proactive, the most motivated.
So you might be losing your bestteam members or they're already
starting to think about exiting.
(11:01):
, and it's really because you just haven'tgiven any information on the situation.
They can see with their own eyes what'shappening in terms of client volume.
They can see that you're not yourself.
So they've jumped to allsorts of conclusions.
And I think Any of us that have everworked in any team where there's been
some uncertainty and we've had someonethat hasn't convey, you know, the
(11:22):
stormy waters that we're going through.
We've seen teams jumping toconclusions and making rash
decisions and sort of moving on.
So when things are challenging inthe business, it's really key to try
and foster that trust in the team,kind of keep the team informed.
One of the The best ways I see peoplelead a team is with vulnerability,
(11:49):
being vulnerable in these timesas a leader opens the trust and
the empathy within the team.
It kind of brings people together and, andif they are committed to the business, if
they are bought into your brand, if theyenjoy where they're working, everyone
will pull together and start moving.
(12:09):
out of the stormy waters,moving the ship forward.
But it starts with that little bitof vulnerability from the leader and
opening up that trust and communication.
when you as a leader are vulnerable, youallow people, you give them the space.
To bring their concerns.
And I think often our team,you know, they do not stupid.
(12:31):
They know that something's not right,but they possibly don't feel that they
can raise these concerns because maybethey're seeing you and they're thinking,
Oh my Lord, she is stressed this week.
This is not the week to have theconversation about, you know, is my
job safe or what are we doing aboutthe, you know, the lack of sales
coming in or whatever it might be.
And I think when you lead with thatvulnerability and say, look, you know,
(12:53):
things aren't as great as they've been,these are some of the issues we're dealing
with, it allows, it opens up the door andlets people bring their concerns to you.
And I think having that space tonot only voice your own concerns,
and we'll talk about, you know, howmuch we should in a second, but.
Also allowing your team to be able toask questions, voice their concerns
(13:13):
will often be all they need to go.
No, it's okay.
She's got a handle on this.
Like things are okay, but oftenpeople just need to voice those.
Cause if not, the thoughts go roundand round, you know, in your head
and you don't, you want your team tobe , sitting, thinking about all the
things that are going wrong, ratherthan just getting on with their job.
Pip, have you got any examplesfrom your own business?
(13:34):
Because I know you've been leadinga team for a long time now.
So, oh gosh, there are so many thingsI can think of when it comes to, you
know, when things haven't gone rightor when you've had to be transparent.
There's been times where we've hadto cut hours down for people, you
know, when we've been really affectedby changes in the economic climate.
There's been times when peoplehave been fired or left, where
(13:57):
you've had to communicate.
Why that's been, , you know, which isa difficult conversation to have this
times when, you know, we haven't hitsales targets that we wanted to hit.
And, you know, everybody's beenworking hard and it's no one's fault.
And you have that sort of completelyunmotivated team because we've all
been working really hard and forwhatever reason it didn't happen.
(14:19):
And these are all times where.
You know, if you come in as a leader,you know, and I can think of several
times where, you know, I have beenpeeing my pants a little bit behind
the scenes, you know, ready for thisconversation that I don't really
want to have, but the sooner you haveit, gosh, the weight that is lifted.
did once you've had that conversation.
(14:40):
And I think often we sit and we strewon these things and we obsess so much
about how much we're going to share,what we're going to share, exactly
how we're going to communicate it.
The exact words we're going to say andtry and have a, an answer ready for
every question that we might be asked.
We get so on our heads about it thatactually by the time you just come out
and say it, it never goes quite to plan.
(15:02):
But every single time I foundthat it's really brought that
team together back again.
And it's really like fostered this, like,okay, how are we going to deal with this?
What are we going to do?
And every single time, this is whereyou see, you know, the leaders in
the team step up and you really seethose people that you're like, yes,
you are ride and dime team members.
And you know, I'm going to support youto the end and you will support me.
(15:24):
And, you know, I think it's just oneof those things, as you say, leading
with vulnerability and just gettingon with it makes such a difference.
But one thing I would say onthat is you don't have to share
everything, you know, we talk aboutinforming the team and I think it's
important, you know, you've got to becomfortable with what you are sharing.
You don't need to give, you know, if it'sa financial problem, you don't need to
(15:46):
give the exact breakdown, you know, we'rein our overdraft and I can't actually,
I don't know where the money's coming topay your salary this month that, you know.
There are certain things which I don'tthink are productive to share, if somebody
asks me outright, I will never lie tosomebody, but I'm possibly won't, you
know, share details that don't need tobe shared or share details with somebody
(16:07):
that actually relate to somebody else.
I don't think that's fair to do either.
, I also think in terms of like that exampleof we are in our overdraft, you know,
if you just share that, that once, andactually you don't mention, but we're
often in our overdraft and it's not asbad as it sounds, that team member who
may be finance isn't their strong suitand understanding the inner workings of
(16:31):
how a business is put together, that couldsend them into an absolute panic mode.
Yeah, you don't need to get right intothe detail if that person hasn't had the
full picture before and isn't necessarilygoing to understand that detail.
But also, we have to trust that, youknow, our teams are smart and they get it.
So we can give them some of thebasics to paint the picture without
(16:54):
putting the fear of God in them.
Yeah, totally agree.
It's all about having that plan andpainting the overall picture, isn't it?
And I think when you're communicatingwhat's maybe not going to plan and, you
know, explaining the challenges thatyou're currently facing, it's painting
that picture within, this is where weare now, but you know, we've been here
before and we've got through it andthis has happened and this is the plan.
(17:16):
And I think it's givingpeople action steps.
I think it's really easyto present a problem.
And if you don't, Provide some solutions.
People can easily get into panic mode.
And even if you don't have the perfectsolution yet, and actually you need your
team to help come up with the solution,I think going to that conversation with
a couple of potential solutions justallows everybody to breathe out and relax.
(17:41):
And then when you're having thatconversation, about the action plan,
it's a lot easier then to get peopleto come in, not from a place of fear,
they're coming from a really proactiveplace where they're going, okay, well,
we've got, we've got plan A, we've gotplan B, but maybe we can come up with
plan C because, five people thinkingis going to be better than one person
(18:01):
thinking, but I think giving almost abit, you know, you know, when you're
bowling and you have those littleInflatable rail things that coming up.
It's like putting thoselittle rails in place.
So you're kind of like we'resteering in this general direction.
Don't worry.
I've got you.
Even if in your head, you may bethinking, maybe we don't quite have
you, but I think giving that a littlebit of a little bit of safety to your
(18:21):
team, then really helps you really openup where you can go in terms of fixing
the problem and getting everybody'sbuy in to help support moving forward.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because keeping that safety means peopleare much more likely to still push things,
you know, like as soon as we get worried,as soon as we feel like the perimeter
(18:42):
is coming in, we play really safe.
And that's actually when we don'tmove as far forward in the business.
So we kind of want to keep thatsafety, get the team involved, like
encourage, you know, that dialogueto open up, get them to seek their
input, get their ideas, you know.
This is where we are.
These are the problems.
These are the barriers.
These are the obstacles, butwe're not actually sinking.
(19:04):
You know, you want them to keep pushingit forward and collectively come up with
some really good ideas, take ownershipof problems, collaborate on stuff.
And by starting by opening thatdialogue yourself, by being kind of
honest and open and saying there isa problem, then that helps your team
jump in and, and help you solve it.
(19:26):
And also open up further down the lineif they have problems with stuff, you
know, they're not then hiding if acertain area of the business that they're
responsible for is not doing so well.
You know, this is a culture where we say,okay, this is not as good as it could be.
But let's work out how we canmove it forward as a team, and it
gives everybody that confidence.
Also, we're then, we're not justlanding this bombshell on our team, and
(19:51):
then never giving any feedback on it.
I've definitely seenthis happen, you know?
Like, a leader has opened up and said,you know what, we're going through a
bit of SH1T at the moment, and We needeveryone on board to kind of solve it.
And you're like, okay, great.
Let's try and help.
But then they've nevercome back to communicate.
Hey, we're actually moving forwardfaster than we thought we could.
(20:13):
We're totally, you know,moving out of the water now.
Please don't worry about your jobs.
Everything's fine.
Or, you know, these are theamazing changes that we've made.
Each team member is workingin a different department.
They can't necessarily seethe leaps forward that another
department might be making.
So it's really important to keep updatingthe team on that situation, like manage
(20:35):
the expectations, keep the team involvedas much as you need to, but let them know
when you're like out of the woods as well.
And I think with that as well, it's,it's not only keeping people updated,
but also keeping the doors open.
So as people's worries.
Change, as you know, you're fixingthe problem, as they will, because
(20:56):
the initial worry will be different tothe worry that's a month later and the
worry that's a month later from that.
It's continuing to keep that door openso your team can bring any concerns to
you and you're making sure you're gettingon top of any of those little niggles
really early on so they don't spiral intosomething that then is actually another
issue for you to be stressing about.
Yeah, absolutely.
(21:16):
Really important to keep that going.
I think also in these situations, this iswhen we can really get back to emphasizing
the areas where our team strengths are.
So whenever people are hiring and bringingin teams, I always want them to know.
Each team member, what istheir area of expertise?
What is the question thatthey're always asking?
(21:37):
Every team member should have onequestion that they can ask that gets
them to push their job that bit further.
So say, for example, you were systemsand processes, you might always be asking
yourself, how can I make this simpler?
How can I make this more effective?
So then we're like reallygetting back into, okay, where
is each person's strength?
How can that person How can thatperson move forward in their area?
(22:00):
How can that person moveforward with their strengths?
And collectively, we're allmoving forward on this challenge.
And I think there's nothing,there's nothing like a challenge
in a business to unite the teamand get them to work together.
Like if we think of all the TV shows,like Survivor, I'm a Celebrity, all
these people that freaking hate eachother and they come in and they're like
(22:22):
encouraging each other to eat worms sothey can all have something nice to eat.
But.
That kind of collective challenge,like really, really motivates the team.
So yes, it's a terrible time to begoing through like these struggles
in the business, but it's also anopportunity to really unite the team
and actually move forward in amazingways that we perhaps wouldn't have
(22:46):
if that challenge hadn't come up.
So it's just about maintaining thattrust, get the anxiety levels down because
we've been open about where we're at.
And get the team to work together tohit those targets and maybe even surpass
like the financial situation that youwere in before the struggle arrived.
Yeah, I love that.
(23:07):
I love how you're bringingI'm Celebrity into business,
but it is literally so true.
It's having that common enemy, and ifyou've got that common, common enemy, you
will want to work together to fight it.
And if that is, you know, a lack ofsales, well then, You're just pulling
everybody in together, aren't you?
To, to fight and solve that problem.
And I know a lot of the time with, youknow, worries that we have as business
(23:29):
owners and sharing with the team, youknow, financial issues are often the
first thing we think about it's, youknow, we don't have enough money or
we're worried about sales or costs, butthere are other things as well that might
be happening in the business, which.
Can kind of put us in a difficultposition as a leader about how
much do we share or we not share.
So I'd love to know, Georgia, fromyour perspective, if we've fired
(23:51):
someone, say, or a team member'sbeen moved on because they're not
performing, , how do we deal with this?
Because obviously we can't not sayanything and just turn up one day and
there's just somebody not there inthe team meeting because, you know,
that's pretty obvious and a bit of anawkward elephant in the room situation.
But also, you know, there's a degree, youknow, to respecting people and not putting
(24:13):
the fear of, you know, God and peoplethat they're going to lose their jobs.
How would you go around dealingwith a situation like that and
communicating that with the team?
Please don't fire people and thenjust never mention them ever again.
They never existed becausefirstly, that is just weird.
And also whether or not that persondidn't work out, they probably have.
(24:36):
Added some value to thebusiness in some way.
And I think that shouldalways be celebrated.
, it's really similar togiving any type of feedback.
This is never an attackon somebody's personality.
This is never about.
This person just wasn't good enough,or they just, they just, we just
didn't really like them in the teamor they created a bad atmosphere.
(24:59):
It has to be much moreconstructive than that.
Now, it can be a really goodopportunity to showcase what you're
trying to achieve in the business andperhaps When people, one, fall short.
So, the main thing is I want youto think about how do you want your
team to feel hearing about this?
(25:20):
How do you want them to relate tothis experience of somebody that
perhaps didn't meet up to certaincriteria that you were hiring for
or you had asked them to achieve?
So, it's kind of getting a little bitspecific in areas, but not so specific
that you're slagging off to what extentthat person could do their job because
(25:41):
that's not necessary for anyone.
And also remember the team member thatyou're talking about will be friends
with your other team members probably.
They will have had conversations aroundthe struggles that they were having and
there's always two sides to the truth.
So we're not trying to Like make them lookbad or that they weren't a good person.
(26:01):
We're just being honestin terms of the situation.
So for example, say you had tolet somebody go because you had
taken them on to manage a project.
But actually, really, they neededtoo much management from you.
So their, their work style wassomebody that loved to be given
a list of things to work through,and then be given another list.
(26:24):
But actually you needed someone thatcould really oversee the project.
So perhaps you're saying, Okay,unfortunately we've parted ways.
We've realized that X's capabilitiesjust didn't match what this role
needed, which meant that she wasn'tenjoying it day to day because we were
almost giving her too much autonomy.
Perhaps you're not going to say it in thatway, but that's basically what's happened.
(26:47):
The role is actually feltstressful for her because she
hasn't quite got the right skills.
For the project management thatwe need now, potentially that's
on us for not hiring the rightperson in the first place.
And we realized that, but it alsomeant that this was no longer an
enjoyable role for her becauseshe couldn't keep up with the
(27:08):
expectations of the project management.
So you've made it quite clear thatit wasn't right for both of you.
And I think it's just having thatopenness, but never in that did we.
belittle her, what she does or theway she does it because actually
she's a phenomenal person atworking through a list but we needed
something slightly different in thisrole and she didn't have that which
(27:28):
was making it stressful for her.
That is so useful Georgia and I feellike that's a podcast episode you need
to save so when you're about to have thisconversation you can just listen to that
little section again and be like right.
I'm ready to go have this conversationwith my team because, you know, I know
from personal experience, it is, it'sbad enough firing someone, that's a
conversation no one wants to have, right?
(27:49):
And then it's even as bad, and thenit's just as bad, having to go and
tell your team and, you know, have theworries that people might fear that their
job's at risk and, you know, all theother things that come into your head.
And I think if you can go in, as you say,in your very Matter of fact about it.
And you, you never belittlesomebody and you celebrate what
(28:09):
they have brought to the business.
, and, and it's an opportunity tohighlight, you know, what good looks
like in the business and maybe whatbad looks like in the business.
It helps clarify that to your team.
And I think being really honestabout it then allows them to bring
any questions or concerns to you.
And it, it just stops it from being areally awkward conversation, which, you
(28:31):
know, by not having the conversationis made super awkward, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
We don't want all that sort ofwhispering in the background with what,
I mean, we talked about this earlier.
We've both been in situations wherepeople have left the business and
nothing has ever been said about it.
It's just, it's so weird though.
Like when you, you know, someone's inthe business and they're suddenly just
(28:53):
not there and nobody says anything.
And I mean, I've only everexperienced this in corporate,
but it's just, it's odd.
And then, then the whispermill and the rumor mill starts.
And that is.
So much worse, and that's what, asa boss, you want to like, cut off
at the neck before it even beginsbecause the last thing you want
is the rumours flying around theteam about what actually happened.
(29:14):
Yeah, because for the first two days itdetracts from anyone doing any actual
work because they're trying to get tothe bottom of this detective mystery.
I love it.
Okay, so the key to this then isbeing really clear on what we're
saying, going in with a bit of a plan.
, I often find that I will write a fewbullet points down if I'm, if I'm
(29:36):
a little worried about exactly howI'm going to communicate something,
I'll have a think about it before Icommunicate it, write down some bullets.
So I'm sticking to my pointsand we always make it about the
role and never about the person.
And I think this, you know, thistranslates into so many conversations
you can have within your team.
But let's think about then, , some ofthe things that really help us understand
(30:01):
why being transparent is useful inthe team and some of the, the benefits
of transparency has within a team.
Absolutely.
Okay.
So number one, that opencommunication is going to build trust.
, if you are openly sharing information,both positive stuff, challenging stuff
that's going on, you're going to builda culture of trust and honesty, which
(30:24):
means your team members are goingto come forward with stuff to you.
And you're not protecting anyone thenby telling the truth, because that
would be doing them a disservice.
You're actually saying these are problems.
This is how I want us to try andhackle it, let's, let's, let's
all get involved, basically.
But you're also balancing thattransparency with positivity.
(30:49):
So we're not just telling peoplethat the whole world is ending,
the business is falling apart, andthen we're just going to sort of.
Wallow in that for two days untileverybody feels completely demotivated.
Demotivated.
We're sort of saying, youknow, this is the problem.
, but we are backing itup with positive things.
So we've been here before.
This is what we've di we did.
(31:10):
You know, this isn't actuallythe end of the world.
The tipping point for making thisbetter is this, and we're aiming for
this, you know, so we're looking forthe positive actions to move forward.
And how we can kind of maintainthat morale and motivation and bring
the team together to work on stuff.
Yeah.
And I think it's all about getting theteam involved in that decision making.
(31:31):
And I can think about areally good example of this.
When I got long COVID earlier thisyear, I obviously Was my brain
frog was out of control and my teampicked up on this very quickly.
So obviously I had to stepback and work a lot less.
And I really encourage my team atthis stage to help make decisions
about what was important, whichbits of my role they could pick up.
(31:54):
And rather than me going, Ineed you to do this, this, this.
I opened up the conversationand people were volunteering.
Well, why don't I do this bit?
Cause this I'm reallycomfortable doing this bit.
And you know, why don't Ipick up this bit from you?
Because I already know how to do it.
I've spoken to this person about it.
And that then meant because peopleare involved in it, they don't
feel that there's something bad.
(32:15):
They don't feel that they're being forcedto do something or feel uncomfortable.
They feel a part of it.
And I think then when you'reasking people to step up, it's a
lot easier if people feel like.
They've made the decision to stepup rather than you forcing them
to step up because that's, that'sreally not going to help you.
And I think within that thenis really setting those clear
(32:35):
expectations, like communicatingwhere we're trying to get to.
We know that this is goingto be a tipping point.
We know it's a hard time, butthis is what we're aiming for.
And being really transparentabout everybody's involvement
in getting towards that.
So everybody knows.
You know, walking away, they'renot sat still in the fear.
They're like, right, I know exactlywhat I need to do with my job.
(32:56):
I know what good looks like.
I know what we're aiming for as a team.
And then it helps people see thatprogress and keeps them motivated.
Cause they're like, well, one step closer.
We signed one more client or we'vesold another 10 K worth of this product
this month or whatever it might be.
And I know that my part is actuallyactively helping us get out of this
little hole that we're in at the moment.
Absolutely.
(33:16):
I love that.
And that links in with thosekind of regular updates.
So if you're going to be transparent,then you have to keep giving regular
updates of how things are changing,how things are improving, like what's
the company's progress, like how are wemeeting these future plans that we set.
And it's going to helpwith those expectations.
And it's going to massivelyreduce any uncertainty.
(33:38):
So everyone stays kind of motivated.
, and I think we've said before, like,your team aren't stupid, they know,
they know when something is amiss,whether that is a team member is
underperforming, you're a little bitstressed, whatever it is, be proactive
in addressing those concerns, you know,if your team are raising concerns, like
be proactive, we're dealing with that.
(34:00):
We've got to be kind of Responsiveto these things and show that we're
committed to this open communication,you know, that we want our team to be
happy and feel secure and motivated andlook after their well being, really.
So, yeah, address these thingsquickly, be proactive about stuff.
(34:20):
Yeah, and I think it's important alsoto understand that it's okay to use
discretion and, you know, carefully choosewhat information is shared with different
people in the level of information.
You know, there have definitely beentimes where things haven't been going to
plan or there's been an issue with theteam, and I will speak to one or two.
You know, more senior members of theteam or people that I trust who've
(34:42):
been with the business for a lotlonger, who are in a management role.
And, you know, there are certain, there'scertain bits of information I will share
with them, but I'm not going to shareout with junior members of the team
because they don't need to be worriedthat something's not happened or we're
struggling with this or the other, youknow, the real intricate details of it.
So I think it's understanding.
You know, what do I need to tell what'scritical that I share and who is it that
(35:06):
I'm sharing with because I've definitelyfound that, you know, being very
transparent with senior members of theteam has really allowed me to get a really
good action path and then together we'vecrafted how we're going to share this out.
with the wider team.
And that not only allows you to sortof, you have the confidence then because
you've already got a step ahead and you,other people in the team know what's
(35:28):
going on to the level that they need to.
And it, you know, it's a really difficultbalance with all these things, but I
think trusting your gut there and knowingwhere somebody's skills might really help
you with something is really important.
And it takes away the pressure.
From you explaining, you know, all theway up from your ops manager down to
customer services, the intricate detailsof your P& L when things are not going
(35:49):
well, which you don't need to be doing,you know, certain people aren't going
to understand all bits of information.
So thinking, okay.
What pieces of information do youreally need to understand about this?
Like if it's a website issue,the tech side of things really
need to understand how bad it is.
But you know, someone in customerservices, they don't need to
understand the details of it, butthey do need to understand the impact
(36:10):
and what that then means for them.
So I think it's okay to use thatdiscretion and it's okay to, you
know, as, as long as the messageis clear and cohesive for everyone.
So you don't suddenly have threedifferent stories being painted, you
know, it's okay for some people to know.
A little bit more that's very relevant totheir role and other people, you know, to
know just what they need for that role.
(36:31):
and I suppose what comes with that isthinking about your communication style,
you know, everybody's different, right?
And some people want to know the hardtruth, the facts, say it to them that,
you know, they're not going to be worried.
They don't need things sugarcoated.
They don't, you know.
that we're going to say a positive, thenwe're going to tell you the bad thing,
but then we're going to say the positive.
They're like, I want to know the facts.
I want to know what the plan is.
(36:52):
And the very matter of fact, wherethere are going to be other members
of your team, you know, who are maybea bit more emotional and you need to
kind of paint a bit more of a pictureand, you know, really make sure that
you spend time explaining where theyfit in and what that means for them.
And I think a lot of thetime is understanding.
How somebody's thought process worksand then going, well, this is how best
(37:14):
to communicate with you about thisone thing I think is really important
because, you know, what you communicatewith your customers, if something's
going wrong, it's completely differentto what you're going to communicate
with your team, which is again, probablyreally different with what you're going
to communicate with your, you know,director of staff or operating manager,
who's like your, your right hand person.
(37:35):
So it's, it's really understandingwhat am I sharing with.
Each, each personal group and howam I explaining myself to them?
Yeah, I love that.
There's a quote, , they won'tremember what you said, they won't
remember what you did, but they'llremember how you made them feel.
And I think when we're trying tocommunicate these changes with our team,
that's what we're trying to get to.
(37:56):
We, we're almost trying to beto the point about this is the
problem, but we're delivering it ina way that shows them that we give
a shit how it's affecting them.
That, you know, we, we care, we'recompassionate, we want, we want
to solve this and make this work.
And I think you will come up withso many different obstacles like
this when you're leading a business.
(38:16):
But if we can reflect on the onesthat we have had before, you know,
what worked well, how did we deliversomething that actually It did go down
quite well and people understood andthey embraced and they got on board
or where was the situation where wemaybe didn't share as much as we should
have and actually we had to share itlater on the team really stepped up.
(38:36):
You know, so if you can think about howyou've done things before and constantly
refine that process, improve on it,you know, adapt how you deliver things,
how you contribute, like how you buildthat culture of continuous improvement.
It's going to really changethe way things move forward.
I think the key point is,it's about whatever feels
(38:58):
comfortable for you, isn't it?
You know, it's your business,it's your level of communication.
The ground rule should be, ifit's something that's worrying
you, you need to talk about it.
You should talk about it.
But, is it for your team?
Is it them that you need to talk about it?
Or is it somewhere else?
You know, as entrepreneurs, weare going to have these struggles.
(39:20):
So, we need to decide.
Do I share this with my team?
Do I share this with anotherentrepreneur that's going to
understand this struggle better andcan actually help me bounce some ideas?
Or am I going to take this to my coachand discuss the options with them?
So sometimes we want to be transparentwith the team, but we always need
(39:40):
to think about actually, we needto talk about this with someone,
so who is best placed to help us?
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