April 15, 2024 • 26 mins
In February 2022, Alexander Radchenko, leading a team of developers based in Ukraine, faced an unimaginable challenge: his team came under physical attack. Despite the chaos, Radchenko managed not only to keep his team intact but also achieved a remarkable feat—maintaining 100% customer retention during this tumultuous period.
In this episode, we delve into the essence of successful leadership amidst extreme conflict. Join us as we sit down with Alexander to uncover the pivotal role of people-centric leadership, transparent communication with clients, and forward-thinking problem-solving strategies that enabled him to navigate through the storm.
While the circumstances of the invasion are unique, the lessons learned are universally applicable. Whether you're leading a team through a crisis or seeking insights into effective leadership, this episode offers invaluable takeaways for senior-level professionals.
Key Takeaways:
- Building Cohesion in a Distributed Team: Learn how to maintain a cohesive and productive team in the absence of a central physical location.
- Essential Leadership Qualities in Crisis: Explore the leadership qualities required to navigate through extreme situations.
- The Psychological Impact of Work Amid Uncertainty: Discover the profound psychological value of work in the face of uncertainty and adversity.
- And more!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ana (00:00):
This is Tech Beyond the Hype, the podcast where we talk to experts
and leaders about the latest techand business trends to figure out
what's shaping the future of work.
Hello and welcome back toseason two of the show!
I
am so excited to be back in the recordingstudio and thrilled to let you know
that we have a lot of super excitingepisodes lined up for season two.
(00:24):
So make sure to like andsubscribe to Tech Beyond the Hype.
wherever you listen to podcasts.
To kick things off, we have a greatinterview that I had recently with
my friend Alexander Radchenko.
In the interview, Alex talks abouthis experience of managing a team of
developers that was based in Ukraineduring the time of the Russian invasion
(00:45):
and what he learned about decision makingand leadership during times of crises.
This is a really compellinginterview and Alex was so open with
a story about time that I'm surewe can all see was very difficult.
I have no doubt that there'ssomething in the episode for everyone.
So without much further ado,let's get on with the show.
(01:07):
Enjoy.
Alex (01:11):
I'm in IT world for 30 years.
Oh my God.
And I started from what we wouldcall nowadays a junior software
engineer, and I end up being the chiefexecutive officer, several companies
and a board member and a lecture inseveral universities across the globe.
My current role, I'm actually startingmy next big thing as a Chief Executive
(01:33):
Officer and Co-Founder of, Avis.
It's an innovative IT servicescompany predominantly focusing on
how the real sector are going tobenefit from artificial intelligence.
But in reality, the scope is much wider.
So that's me.
Ana (01:49):
That's awesome.
Well, congratulations, firstof all, for your new role.
When we first met, you told me a lotabout your role at Intellectsoft,
which is the company that you're justleaving from, and specifically, you told
me about the impact that the Russianinvasion of Ukraine had on the company.
I was wondering if we could delve alittle bit into that specifically from
a leadership perspective, I wonder whatit was like knowing that the invasion
(02:13):
was coming and then when the invasionhappened, how did your leadership style
evolve and what kind of decision makingdid you have to take during that time?
Alex (02:26):
Intellectsoft is a company of American origins founded in San
Francisco and has offices acrossthe country in Florida and New York
and London, Oslo, many places, buthistorically vast majority of the
engineering workforce of Intellectsoft,all these folks were based in Ukraine.
And for us, in reality, the war startedin 2014, the capital of the country
(02:52):
where a majority of our staff werebased wasn't really affected by what
started in 2014, and definitely thatwas clear that something is coming.
And as any organization, we have thebusiness continue to plan, for example,
as a mandatory corporate artifact.
But the reality of a phase onemorning in February, 2022 was totally
(03:14):
different from what we expect.
And actually, frankly speaking, wewere prepared in many ways because
we learned back in 2014 that the key.
Success in such a situation is nothaving a plan, but rather your ability
to react fast on a situation thatchanging literally every moment in
terms of a leadership and the decisionmaking style in moments like this, your
(03:36):
people need to be confident in theirleadership and understand that you are
trying to help them as much as you can.
I'm always saying when I'mlecturing that IT is a team sport,
it's not an individual sport.
You cannot really be super successfulif you're alone in technology.
So you can be a geek doingsomething in garage, but that's it.
(03:57):
You cannot really changethe world on your own.
So this is a team sport and thereforeyour success is about teamwork.
You need to help your people navigate inthese conflicts and dynamic environment.
So again, overcoming that challengetakes efforts from many people and
these efforts have to be aligned.
And that's your role as a leader.
(04:17):
The utmost priority at this momentwhen the full scale invasion started
was to make sure that our people aresafe because in many ways, technology
sector is not about technology, right?
It's about people, even if we thinkcynically about our business, right,
our major asset are people, becausetheir knowledge, their experience, their
passion to do something will create new,crazy things, actually the something
(04:40):
that create value to our clients.
So helping them and families wastheir priority for the organization.
And the moment you help yourpeople and they're safe and sound,
the first thing they will takecare of is actually your clients.
So that was the approach, if you like.
Ana (04:58):
Right.
And would you say that that issomething that you will continue?
Is that something that yousee as a central point for
leadership in any environment?
Because for me, I think that peopleand the welfare and wellbeing of
the people that are in the companyis fundamental to the longevity of
the organization and to success.
(05:18):
Do you agree?
Or would you say that that'ssomething that is specific to when
there's a lot of people Turbulenceor lots of big changes going on.
Alex (05:27):
Well, there are different views on that, I think.
So some people are obsessedwith processes, for example.
Some people are obsessedwith use of technologies.
Some people, they're more people centric.
I never seen a successful company wheregreat processes being properly executed
(05:48):
and leading you to achieving your goals.
If you don't have properpeople in the organization.
In contrast, frankly speaking, I'veseen lots of companies, especially
early stage startups, where you don'thave process whatsoever, but because
of having the right people on thebus, as we call it, right, you doing
(06:08):
totally incredible things, so I've seen.
That the people is the key, you kind ofjust rely on people doing everything they
can in each and every situation becauseyou need a certain framework, you need
an infrastructure, you need to supportservices and all kinds of enablements.
To empower these people, right.
(06:28):
And give them the right toolsand means to, to do their
job in the best possible way.
But again, it starts with people.
And I think it's absolutely critical forany organization to have the right people
at the right place at the right time.
And I was lucky that inthe Intellectual Soft team.
When the full scale invasionstarted, we have a full house, if
(06:53):
you like, of all the people in allkey roles, and they did their best.
Ana (06:57):
During that time, obviously you have the people side, then you have the
client side and trying to think about howyou would navigate client relationships
when they're aware of where the teamis based and what's going on there.
When we first met, you told me that youhad a hundred percent customer retention.
And that's, I mean, ahuge feat, especially.
(07:19):
Given the situation, most companieseven not navigating such a big crisis
struggle with customer retention.
What do you think it was about yourleadership strategy and the team's
approach to clients that meant that youwere able to maintain such a good level
of trust and communication with them?
Alex (07:37):
I can only support what you just said, because generally
collaboration in IT servicesspace is based on mutual trust.
So again, some people think thatour industry is about technology
or innovations or whatever.
No, as a business, we are buying andselling trust in this industry as
well as any other industry in reality.
(07:58):
My business philosophy, if you like,is that my teams don't hide bad news.
So our partners must be fully aware ofwhat's happening and be able to make
whatever decision they, they, they thinkis relevant in this situation, even
though the decision is not in our favor.
The strategy at this momentof time was very clear.
(08:20):
It just be transparent withour clients, with our partners.
It was especially important becauseat this moment we had very limited
information we can trust andpeople were, including in Ukraine,
they were overwhelmed with fakesand they were simply scared.
And as our client, if I imagine myselfbeing in their shoes, And they are
(08:42):
waking up in the morning, having theircup of tea and watching BBC news, or
they're making themselves a coffee andwatching CNN in New York, for example.
And they're watching what'shappening, like something that
hasn't been seen in generations.
In reality, so they have a naturalconcerns, like what's happening,
(09:03):
my team in Ukraine, how this willaffect their ability to deliver and
therefore how it's going to affectmy ability as a business to operate.
Starting the first night of theinvasion, I was sending daily
emails to all of our clients.
So normally I was doing thatsomewhere in the night because
our working hours at that point oftime were more or less 24 seven.
(09:27):
And for many of my clients, this became amajor source of trusted information about
what happened in underground in Ukraine.
And at least a couple of themmentioned afterwards that I have
to print this emails in the book.
Because in reality, this emails,this is a theory of the war,
(09:49):
how it's seen by civilians andhow it's seen by the business.
And again, We were not hiding anything.
So we were very open in communicatingto our clients and partners, like,
okay, here we are, some of our peopleout there on some of them, they in
safe places, which we establishedin the country, some of them we are
trying to take out of the country.
(10:09):
And so on and so forth.
On top of that, many of ourclients were in constant direct
contact with teammates, right?
They were really, really caringabout them and looking for any
possible ways to help them.
We have similar communications onall the levels, so they can approach
the engineer working for them and.
Intellectual team andask the same question.
(10:32):
They ask me what I'm writing in mydaily communications is actually
something they learn from a teammates.
Again, because we arefully transparent, right?
And I still believe that was thebest we can do in this situation.
Ana (10:45):
Yeah.
It sounds like from a values perspective,you went with the value of integrity
and openness and honesty, being astransparent as possible with communication
with clients and with the level ofinformation that you were sharing with
them, becoming kind of a trusted advisorwith respect to the Ukraine situation,
(11:07):
as well as with the IT and the solutionsthat you were already providing them.
That really makes sense as to why.
You guys succeeded so much withmaintaining your relationships because
we all value openness and integrity.
And especially within business,it's not always the easiest
of values to come across.
There are a lot of organizations whichdon't put that as their front value or
(11:31):
which potentially say that they do, butthen in action don't act with integrity.
So it's great to hear how that impactedthe relationships with your clients.
It's like you added an extralevel of value by being.
extra communicative at a time whenit was challenging for you to do so.
What was your approach towellbeing within the team?
(11:52):
Because not only are they going throughsuch a huge challenge, but then also
maintaining regular communicationand potentially increasing the amount
of responsibility that they have.
during their role.
How did you think about that?
And what kind of measures did youput in place to ensure that people
(12:14):
were looking after themselvesfrom a mental health perspective?
Alex (12:18):
I would split that in two parts.
So one part, it's something wewere doing as immediate response
to the situation that unfoldedpretty fast and pretty dramatically.
And then what we did When thesituation stabilized and it's
still a work in progress.
(12:39):
So the first immediate response, again,we made it very clear to people that,
okay, your job now is to take care of yoursafety and safety of your beloved ones.
And our role was to control thatprocess as much as we can and, help
people navigating and provide themwith all kinds of support we can.
(13:05):
And that's a regular, maybe overthe top communications with them.
Normally as an organization, wehad the monthly all hands calls.
At some point of time, we were doingthat literally on a daily basis.
And we stayed connected throughmultiple messengers all the time.
It was corporate and just general purposemessengers, because you never know whether
(13:29):
a particular software is going to work inwhich situation and which region and why.
So , that was important to understandwhere we are and we had show
you shared a map with a team andpeople were tracking where they
are to where they're heading to.
Who are together with them.
And we, I wouldn't say in the realtime, but nearly real time, we were
(13:52):
watching where our people and whatkind of a conditions do they have.
And, I must admit that I hope thishelp these people to realize that,
okay, we're taking care of themand, their safety is a priority and
they did their best to, to secure asafety environment for themselves.
(14:13):
There were several cases where it wentdifferently, let me put it this way, the
most dramatic situation and when one ofour colleagues from Intellectsoft and his
family happened to be on the territorythat was already occupied by Russians,
he lives in a small village and theRussian tanks already were his streets.
(14:36):
And after the invasion, he andhis family happened to be in,
in the gray zone, if you like.
And they were very afraid.
So we, the company, decidedthat, okay, let's do it.
We want to help.
We, we want to do whatever ispossible in this situation.
And our people are very creative.
So we actually hired an ex special opsmilitary guy from a private security firm.
(15:02):
And this guy infiltrated the occupiedterritory and just took this people
out to the territory, which iscontrolled by the Ukrainian government.
So that was kind of a James Bond kindof a story, but that's real and he and
his family, they are safe and sound.
And actually the day or two after wemanaged to, to help them to escape,
(15:25):
their house was shelled, and so theyhave like holes in the roof and in the
garden, you know, so you don't know what,what happens in the next moment, right?
So we just were lucky that we managedto help them or another story.
, the war started on Thursday and thefirst weekend of the war, we had a
(15:49):
scheduled promotion of one of our clientsapplications to the Apple app store.
And our guys did that while sittingin the bomb shelter in the subway.
And they did so withouttelling the client.
And actually that was their choice.
They wanted to stay in their city.
They refused to live.
And then just after a week orso, they just mentioned that to a
(16:12):
client and a casual conversation.
And of course the client'sreaction was, what, where?
And those guys, they said,okay, I have two options, right?
I can sit and cry in a bomb shelter.
Or I can put my headphones on, Ihave my notebook, I have Wi Fi in a
bomb shelter, and I can do my job.
And that was very interestingpsychological effect, because at
(16:35):
this time of terrible crisis, and atragedy, in many ways their job helped
them to stabilize and was a linkto their normal life from the past.
And yeah, so they did a great joband they kept serving our clients in
this situation and getting back tothe original question in the second
(16:58):
piece, when the situation stabilized,we took this mental health question
more seriously and professionally.
So first of all, we are luckyto have very professional human
resources people on board.
And at some point we startedinviting externally experts.
In the psychology and mental healthand they are totally different and they
(17:22):
have totally different approach andwe let our people try with whom they
want to work individually or in thegroup, because for some people, more
direct approach to looking at theirproblems or fears is more comfortable.
Some of them they need just to.
A different approach and wesponsored that as an organization.
We organized that.
(17:43):
Some of our colleagues were using theservices of these external consultants
for a long time, but it works.
I mean, whatever it takes to helppeople, we're going to do that.
Ana (17:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's interesting.
I was thinking when you were talkingabout the guys that were in the shelter.
And working with their clients.
Different example and different scenario,but during COVID, I was put on furlough,
which was basically a government schemethat they did here in the UK, where you're
basically suspended from your job andpaid an income, but you had nothing to do.
(18:18):
And I think the comparison between peoplewho were regularly in their jobs, even
though they were under extreme pressure,the impact of the loss of that normality,
as you were saying, that sense of regularcommunication with people who you're used
to talking to and the jobs that you'reregularly doing, that really impacted me.
(18:38):
So I completely see where you'recoming from with these guys who decided
it's either this or have nothing.
It's obviously a totally differentscenario, but I think the feelings
underneath the scenario are verysimilar in terms of the connection to
work being something that provides uswith a level of consistency that is
very helpful when there's somethingthat is outside of our control,
(19:01):
shaking up our sense of normality.
Is there anything that you, lookingback, would have done differently?
Alex (19:06):
I think, um, of course, , if I would known what, what we know
today, , the approach probably wouldbe different in the sense that we
didn't expect that scale of invasionand that level of risk for civilians.
And that's why we took certain actions.
(19:30):
Actions was from a technologyor cybersecurity point of view.
And we pre booked, for example, severalsafe spaces at the rest of the country.
Because we were expecting fora need to move our people.
But frankly speaking, I would verymuch prefer to do more on this.
(19:51):
And if we have a clear view on thescale of the invasion, definitely
I would very much prefer to movemy people out of the country.
Again, thanks God, no fatalities,nobody injured in our team.
But anyway, the risk was thereand the risk is still there.
(20:12):
So probably that's theonly thing I would change.
Otherwise, I think theteam did a great job.
Ana (20:18):
Thank you for, um, you know, your honesty.
I think it's difficult to reflecton these moments and especially on
things that could have been different.
And taking out the specificcontext of the Ukraine situation.
Obviously we have a lot of listeners whoare leaders of their own teams and who
may be thinking of their own leadershipstyle and what to do during times of
(20:42):
uncertainty, um, unexpected change.
What would you say are thekey pieces of advice that you
would give to them, given your
Alex (20:50):
experience?
I think being Captain Obvious,, sorry for saying that again, but
it's about building the best teamand trust your people, right?
People will do everything right.
You just need to supportthem in a critical moment.
And they have to be sure in yourleadership and that they can
rely on you in case of need.
(21:10):
I'm always saying that planning is good,having a plan B and plan C is good.
But it's not about having a plan.
It's about your organizationalability to adapt to changes
over past several decades.
The, the world in the way that 10 yearsago, 20 years ago, that was easy to split.
(21:31):
All the activities we do in as abusiness to run and change the business.
So run the business as yournormal routine, as business
as usual, kind of a thing.
And normally for, for typicalorganization, not necessarily in
the IT space, like 80, 90 percentof what you do in this organization
is about run your business.
And then there is a small fraction ofactivities and, , focus and, , budgets
(21:56):
and resources allocated to what wenormally call the change the business.
Right.
And actually, both are importantand they require a totally
different mindset, for example.
Nowadays, we cannot really separate that,because the amount of changes coming
our way is so huge and it's constantlygrowing, and It's unpredictable that I
(22:23):
would change the business saying, becomingnow run the business with new normal.
I would advise people to worksystematically on improving ability of
their organizations to accommodate changesand accommodate crisis if you want.
This is about your ability as ateam to react and have a certain
(22:43):
elasticity to accommodate all thesechanges while keeping providing
services, delivering great products,serving your clients, no matter what.
I think the heat from thepandemic was a tough call.
Many businesses, I think we in,in IT did very well in general.
But because of the nature of what wedo, we are not that dependent on being
(23:07):
an office nine to five, and we can beperfectly efficient working remotely.
So we already have thisbenefit long before.
Other industries adopted that.
And there are multiple things like that.
In many ways, this is aboutyour corporate culture.
So is your culture of veryopen to changes in general?
(23:29):
Because you're gonna say, okay, we'regoing to be flexible in addressing the
challenges related to a next crisisthat will happen tomorrow is 2 PM.
And we are not flexible every single day.
To a certain extent, getting back to thesituation in Ukraine, I think it's in many
ways embedded into the DNA of Ukrainians.
And now when I'm speaking on that, I'mjoking sometimes that the best thing
(23:52):
Western companies can do to improve theirresilience is actually hire Ukrainians as
mid level managers, give them the freedomand autonomy to do their magic, because
no matter what Ukraine will surviveand they can help your organization
to adapt to this fast changing
Ana (24:11):
situation.
So what I'm hearing is be opento change, open to adaptability.
Um, and maybe hire some Ukrainiansinto mid level management.
Does that sound right?
Alex (24:21):
Yeah.
It's one of the, yeah, one ofthe mandatory steps, of course.
Ana (24:24):
Awesome.
Well, that reaches the end of thequestions that I wanted to ask you today.
So thank you so much forjoining me for this episode.
It's been an absolutepleasure having you here.
And I look forward tospeaking to you very soon.
Thank you
Alex (24:35):
very much.
It's always a pleasure.
And yeah, stay in touch.
Ana (24:39):
Take care.
So that's it for today's episode.
so much for tuning in and thanks againto Alexander for joining me for this
episode and for sharing his experiencesand awesome insights with us all.
If you enjoyed this episode and want tohear more about how emerging technologies
and the latest business trends are shapingthe future of work, make sure to like,
(25:01):
rate and subscribe to Tech Beyond theHype wherever you get your podcasts.
Tech Beyond the Hype is a TechTarget original production.
This is Tech Beyond the Hype, the podcast where we talk to experts
and leaders about the latest techand business trends to figure out
what's shaping the future of work.
Hello and welcome back toseason two of the show!
I
am so excited to be back in the recordingstudio and thrilled to let you know
that we have a lot of super excitingepisodes lined up for season two.
(00:24):
So make sure to like andsubscribe to Tech Beyond the Hype.
wherever you listen to podcasts.
To kick things off, we have a greatinterview that I had recently with
my friend Alexander Radchenko.
In the interview, Alex talks abouthis experience of managing a team of
developers that was based in Ukraineduring the time of the Russian invasion
(00:45):
and what he learned about decision makingand leadership during times of crises.
This is a really compellinginterview and Alex was so open with
a story about time that I'm surewe can all see was very difficult.
I have no doubt that there'ssomething in the episode for everyone.
So without much further ado,let's get on with the show.
(01:07):
Enjoy.
Alex (01:11):
I'm in IT world for 30 years.
Oh my God.
And I started from what we wouldcall nowadays a junior software
engineer, and I end up being the chiefexecutive officer, several companies
and a board member and a lecture inseveral universities across the globe.
My current role, I'm actually startingmy next big thing as a Chief Executive
(01:33):
Officer and Co-Founder of, Avis.
It's an innovative IT servicescompany predominantly focusing on
how the real sector are going tobenefit from artificial intelligence.
But in reality, the scope is much wider.
So that's me.
Ana (01:49):
That's awesome.
Well, congratulations, firstof all, for your new role.
When we first met, you told me a lotabout your role at Intellectsoft,
which is the company that you're justleaving from, and specifically, you told
me about the impact that the Russianinvasion of Ukraine had on the company.
I was wondering if we could delve alittle bit into that specifically from
a leadership perspective, I wonder whatit was like knowing that the invasion
(02:13):
was coming and then when the invasionhappened, how did your leadership style
evolve and what kind of decision makingdid you have to take during that time?
Alex (02:26):
Intellectsoft is a company of American origins founded in San
Francisco and has offices acrossthe country in Florida and New York
and London, Oslo, many places, buthistorically vast majority of the
engineering workforce of Intellectsoft,all these folks were based in Ukraine.
And for us, in reality, the war startedin 2014, the capital of the country
(02:52):
where a majority of our staff werebased wasn't really affected by what
started in 2014, and definitely thatwas clear that something is coming.
And as any organization, we have thebusiness continue to plan, for example,
as a mandatory corporate artifact.
But the reality of a phase onemorning in February, 2022 was totally
(03:14):
different from what we expect.
And actually, frankly speaking, wewere prepared in many ways because
we learned back in 2014 that the key.
Success in such a situation is nothaving a plan, but rather your ability
to react fast on a situation thatchanging literally every moment in
terms of a leadership and the decisionmaking style in moments like this, your
(03:36):
people need to be confident in theirleadership and understand that you are
trying to help them as much as you can.
I'm always saying when I'mlecturing that IT is a team sport,
it's not an individual sport.
You cannot really be super successfulif you're alone in technology.
So you can be a geek doingsomething in garage, but that's it.
(03:57):
You cannot really changethe world on your own.
So this is a team sport and thereforeyour success is about teamwork.
You need to help your people navigate inthese conflicts and dynamic environment.
So again, overcoming that challengetakes efforts from many people and
these efforts have to be aligned.
And that's your role as a leader.
(04:17):
The utmost priority at this momentwhen the full scale invasion started
was to make sure that our people aresafe because in many ways, technology
sector is not about technology, right?
It's about people, even if we thinkcynically about our business, right,
our major asset are people, becausetheir knowledge, their experience, their
passion to do something will create new,crazy things, actually the something
(04:40):
that create value to our clients.
So helping them and families wastheir priority for the organization.
And the moment you help yourpeople and they're safe and sound,
the first thing they will takecare of is actually your clients.
So that was the approach, if you like.
Ana (04:58):
Right.
And would you say that that issomething that you will continue?
Is that something that yousee as a central point for
leadership in any environment?
Because for me, I think that peopleand the welfare and wellbeing of
the people that are in the companyis fundamental to the longevity of
the organization and to success.
(05:18):
Do you agree?
Or would you say that that'ssomething that is specific to when
there's a lot of people Turbulenceor lots of big changes going on.
Alex (05:27):
Well, there are different views on that, I think.
So some people are obsessedwith processes, for example.
Some people are obsessedwith use of technologies.
Some people, they're more people centric.
I never seen a successful company wheregreat processes being properly executed
(05:48):
and leading you to achieving your goals.
If you don't have properpeople in the organization.
In contrast, frankly speaking, I'veseen lots of companies, especially
early stage startups, where you don'thave process whatsoever, but because
of having the right people on thebus, as we call it, right, you doing
(06:08):
totally incredible things, so I've seen.
That the people is the key, you kind ofjust rely on people doing everything they
can in each and every situation becauseyou need a certain framework, you need
an infrastructure, you need to supportservices and all kinds of enablements.
To empower these people, right.
(06:28):
And give them the right toolsand means to, to do their
job in the best possible way.
But again, it starts with people.
And I think it's absolutely critical forany organization to have the right people
at the right place at the right time.
And I was lucky that inthe Intellectual Soft team.
When the full scale invasionstarted, we have a full house, if
(06:53):
you like, of all the people in allkey roles, and they did their best.
Ana (06:57):
During that time, obviously you have the people side, then you have the
client side and trying to think about howyou would navigate client relationships
when they're aware of where the teamis based and what's going on there.
When we first met, you told me that youhad a hundred percent customer retention.
And that's, I mean, ahuge feat, especially.
(07:19):
Given the situation, most companieseven not navigating such a big crisis
struggle with customer retention.
What do you think it was about yourleadership strategy and the team's
approach to clients that meant that youwere able to maintain such a good level
of trust and communication with them?
Alex (07:37):
I can only support what you just said, because generally
collaboration in IT servicesspace is based on mutual trust.
So again, some people think thatour industry is about technology
or innovations or whatever.
No, as a business, we are buying andselling trust in this industry as
well as any other industry in reality.
(07:58):
My business philosophy, if you like,is that my teams don't hide bad news.
So our partners must be fully aware ofwhat's happening and be able to make
whatever decision they, they, they thinkis relevant in this situation, even
though the decision is not in our favor.
The strategy at this momentof time was very clear.
(08:20):
It just be transparent withour clients, with our partners.
It was especially important becauseat this moment we had very limited
information we can trust andpeople were, including in Ukraine,
they were overwhelmed with fakesand they were simply scared.
And as our client, if I imagine myselfbeing in their shoes, And they are
(08:42):
waking up in the morning, having theircup of tea and watching BBC news, or
they're making themselves a coffee andwatching CNN in New York, for example.
And they're watching what'shappening, like something that
hasn't been seen in generations.
In reality, so they have a naturalconcerns, like what's happening,
(09:03):
my team in Ukraine, how this willaffect their ability to deliver and
therefore how it's going to affectmy ability as a business to operate.
Starting the first night of theinvasion, I was sending daily
emails to all of our clients.
So normally I was doing thatsomewhere in the night because
our working hours at that point oftime were more or less 24 seven.
(09:27):
And for many of my clients, this became amajor source of trusted information about
what happened in underground in Ukraine.
And at least a couple of themmentioned afterwards that I have
to print this emails in the book.
Because in reality, this emails,this is a theory of the war,
(09:49):
how it's seen by civilians andhow it's seen by the business.
And again, We were not hiding anything.
So we were very open in communicatingto our clients and partners, like,
okay, here we are, some of our peopleout there on some of them, they in
safe places, which we establishedin the country, some of them we are
trying to take out of the country.
(10:09):
And so on and so forth.
On top of that, many of ourclients were in constant direct
contact with teammates, right?
They were really, really caringabout them and looking for any
possible ways to help them.
We have similar communications onall the levels, so they can approach
the engineer working for them and.
Intellectual team andask the same question.
(10:32):
They ask me what I'm writing in mydaily communications is actually
something they learn from a teammates.
Again, because we arefully transparent, right?
And I still believe that was thebest we can do in this situation.
Ana (10:45):
Yeah.
It sounds like from a values perspective,you went with the value of integrity
and openness and honesty, being astransparent as possible with communication
with clients and with the level ofinformation that you were sharing with
them, becoming kind of a trusted advisorwith respect to the Ukraine situation,
(11:07):
as well as with the IT and the solutionsthat you were already providing them.
That really makes sense as to why.
You guys succeeded so much withmaintaining your relationships because
we all value openness and integrity.
And especially within business,it's not always the easiest
of values to come across.
There are a lot of organizations whichdon't put that as their front value or
(11:31):
which potentially say that they do, butthen in action don't act with integrity.
So it's great to hear how that impactedthe relationships with your clients.
It's like you added an extralevel of value by being.
extra communicative at a time whenit was challenging for you to do so.
What was your approach towellbeing within the team?
(11:52):
Because not only are they going throughsuch a huge challenge, but then also
maintaining regular communicationand potentially increasing the amount
of responsibility that they have.
during their role.
How did you think about that?
And what kind of measures did youput in place to ensure that people
(12:14):
were looking after themselvesfrom a mental health perspective?
Alex (12:18):
I would split that in two parts.
So one part, it's something wewere doing as immediate response
to the situation that unfoldedpretty fast and pretty dramatically.
And then what we did When thesituation stabilized and it's
still a work in progress.
(12:39):
So the first immediate response, again,we made it very clear to people that,
okay, your job now is to take care of yoursafety and safety of your beloved ones.
And our role was to control thatprocess as much as we can and, help
people navigating and provide themwith all kinds of support we can.
(13:05):
And that's a regular, maybe overthe top communications with them.
Normally as an organization, wehad the monthly all hands calls.
At some point of time, we were doingthat literally on a daily basis.
And we stayed connected throughmultiple messengers all the time.
It was corporate and just general purposemessengers, because you never know whether
(13:29):
a particular software is going to work inwhich situation and which region and why.
So , that was important to understandwhere we are and we had show
you shared a map with a team andpeople were tracking where they
are to where they're heading to.
Who are together with them.
And we, I wouldn't say in the realtime, but nearly real time, we were
(13:52):
watching where our people and whatkind of a conditions do they have.
And, I must admit that I hope thishelp these people to realize that,
okay, we're taking care of themand, their safety is a priority and
they did their best to, to secure asafety environment for themselves.
(14:13):
There were several cases where it wentdifferently, let me put it this way, the
most dramatic situation and when one ofour colleagues from Intellectsoft and his
family happened to be on the territorythat was already occupied by Russians,
he lives in a small village and theRussian tanks already were his streets.
(14:36):
And after the invasion, he andhis family happened to be in,
in the gray zone, if you like.
And they were very afraid.
So we, the company, decidedthat, okay, let's do it.
We want to help.
We, we want to do whatever ispossible in this situation.
And our people are very creative.
So we actually hired an ex special opsmilitary guy from a private security firm.
(15:02):
And this guy infiltrated the occupiedterritory and just took this people
out to the territory, which iscontrolled by the Ukrainian government.
So that was kind of a James Bond kindof a story, but that's real and he and
his family, they are safe and sound.
And actually the day or two after wemanaged to, to help them to escape,
(15:25):
their house was shelled, and so theyhave like holes in the roof and in the
garden, you know, so you don't know what,what happens in the next moment, right?
So we just were lucky that we managedto help them or another story.
, the war started on Thursday and thefirst weekend of the war, we had a
(15:49):
scheduled promotion of one of our clientsapplications to the Apple app store.
And our guys did that while sittingin the bomb shelter in the subway.
And they did so withouttelling the client.
And actually that was their choice.
They wanted to stay in their city.
They refused to live.
And then just after a week orso, they just mentioned that to a
(16:12):
client and a casual conversation.
And of course the client'sreaction was, what, where?
And those guys, they said,okay, I have two options, right?
I can sit and cry in a bomb shelter.
Or I can put my headphones on, Ihave my notebook, I have Wi Fi in a
bomb shelter, and I can do my job.
And that was very interestingpsychological effect, because at
(16:35):
this time of terrible crisis, and atragedy, in many ways their job helped
them to stabilize and was a linkto their normal life from the past.
And yeah, so they did a great joband they kept serving our clients in
this situation and getting back tothe original question in the second
(16:58):
piece, when the situation stabilized,we took this mental health question
more seriously and professionally.
So first of all, we are luckyto have very professional human
resources people on board.
And at some point we startedinviting externally experts.
In the psychology and mental healthand they are totally different and they
(17:22):
have totally different approach andwe let our people try with whom they
want to work individually or in thegroup, because for some people, more
direct approach to looking at theirproblems or fears is more comfortable.
Some of them they need just to.
A different approach and wesponsored that as an organization.
We organized that.
(17:43):
Some of our colleagues were using theservices of these external consultants
for a long time, but it works.
I mean, whatever it takes to helppeople, we're going to do that.
Ana (17:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's interesting.
I was thinking when you were talkingabout the guys that were in the shelter.
And working with their clients.
Different example and different scenario,but during COVID, I was put on furlough,
which was basically a government schemethat they did here in the UK, where you're
basically suspended from your job andpaid an income, but you had nothing to do.
(18:18):
And I think the comparison between peoplewho were regularly in their jobs, even
though they were under extreme pressure,the impact of the loss of that normality,
as you were saying, that sense of regularcommunication with people who you're used
to talking to and the jobs that you'reregularly doing, that really impacted me.
(18:38):
So I completely see where you'recoming from with these guys who decided
it's either this or have nothing.
It's obviously a totally differentscenario, but I think the feelings
underneath the scenario are verysimilar in terms of the connection to
work being something that provides uswith a level of consistency that is
very helpful when there's somethingthat is outside of our control,
(19:01):
shaking up our sense of normality.
Is there anything that you, lookingback, would have done differently?
Alex (19:06):
I think, um, of course, , if I would known what, what we know
today, , the approach probably wouldbe different in the sense that we
didn't expect that scale of invasionand that level of risk for civilians.
And that's why we took certain actions.
(19:30):
Actions was from a technologyor cybersecurity point of view.
And we pre booked, for example, severalsafe spaces at the rest of the country.
Because we were expecting fora need to move our people.
But frankly speaking, I would verymuch prefer to do more on this.
(19:51):
And if we have a clear view on thescale of the invasion, definitely
I would very much prefer to movemy people out of the country.
Again, thanks God, no fatalities,nobody injured in our team.
But anyway, the risk was thereand the risk is still there.
(20:12):
So probably that's theonly thing I would change.
Otherwise, I think theteam did a great job.
Ana (20:18):
Thank you for, um, you know, your honesty.
I think it's difficult to reflecton these moments and especially on
things that could have been different.
And taking out the specificcontext of the Ukraine situation.
Obviously we have a lot of listeners whoare leaders of their own teams and who
may be thinking of their own leadershipstyle and what to do during times of
(20:42):
uncertainty, um, unexpected change.
What would you say are thekey pieces of advice that you
would give to them, given your
Alex (20:50):
experience?
I think being Captain Obvious,, sorry for saying that again, but
it's about building the best teamand trust your people, right?
People will do everything right.
You just need to supportthem in a critical moment.
And they have to be sure in yourleadership and that they can
rely on you in case of need.
(21:10):
I'm always saying that planning is good,having a plan B and plan C is good.
But it's not about having a plan.
It's about your organizationalability to adapt to changes
over past several decades.
The, the world in the way that 10 yearsago, 20 years ago, that was easy to split.
(21:31):
All the activities we do in as abusiness to run and change the business.
So run the business as yournormal routine, as business
as usual, kind of a thing.
And normally for, for typicalorganization, not necessarily in
the IT space, like 80, 90 percentof what you do in this organization
is about run your business.
And then there is a small fraction ofactivities and, , focus and, , budgets
(21:56):
and resources allocated to what wenormally call the change the business.
Right.
And actually, both are importantand they require a totally
different mindset, for example.
Nowadays, we cannot really separate that,because the amount of changes coming
our way is so huge and it's constantlygrowing, and It's unpredictable that I
(22:23):
would change the business saying, becomingnow run the business with new normal.
I would advise people to worksystematically on improving ability of
their organizations to accommodate changesand accommodate crisis if you want.
This is about your ability as ateam to react and have a certain
(22:43):
elasticity to accommodate all thesechanges while keeping providing
services, delivering great products,serving your clients, no matter what.
I think the heat from thepandemic was a tough call.
Many businesses, I think we in,in IT did very well in general.
But because of the nature of what wedo, we are not that dependent on being
(23:07):
an office nine to five, and we can beperfectly efficient working remotely.
So we already have thisbenefit long before.
Other industries adopted that.
And there are multiple things like that.
In many ways, this is aboutyour corporate culture.
So is your culture of veryopen to changes in general?
(23:29):
Because you're gonna say, okay, we'regoing to be flexible in addressing the
challenges related to a next crisisthat will happen tomorrow is 2 PM.
And we are not flexible every single day.
To a certain extent, getting back to thesituation in Ukraine, I think it's in many
ways embedded into the DNA of Ukrainians.
And now when I'm speaking on that, I'mjoking sometimes that the best thing
(23:52):
Western companies can do to improve theirresilience is actually hire Ukrainians as
mid level managers, give them the freedomand autonomy to do their magic, because
no matter what Ukraine will surviveand they can help your organization
to adapt to this fast changing
Ana (24:11):
situation.
So what I'm hearing is be opento change, open to adaptability.
Um, and maybe hire some Ukrainiansinto mid level management.
Does that sound right?
Alex (24:21):
Yeah.
It's one of the, yeah, one ofthe mandatory steps, of course.
Ana (24:24):
Awesome.
Well, that reaches the end of thequestions that I wanted to ask you today.
So thank you so much forjoining me for this episode.
It's been an absolutepleasure having you here.
And I look forward tospeaking to you very soon.
Thank you
Alex (24:35):
very much.
It's always a pleasure.
And yeah, stay in touch.
Ana (24:39):
Take care.
So that's it for today's episode.
so much for tuning in and thanks againto Alexander for joining me for this
episode and for sharing his experiencesand awesome insights with us all.
If you enjoyed this episode and want tohear more about how emerging technologies
and the latest business trends are shapingthe future of work, make sure to like,
(25:01):
rate and subscribe to Tech Beyond theHype wherever you get your podcasts.
Tech Beyond the Hype is a TechTarget original production.
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