May 31, 2022 • 41 mins
Hey there Earthlings!
This week on The D.A.N.I. Project, we beamed up Veterinary Social Worker and Disabled Entrepreneur Emerson Grey. Emerson is a Mediator and Conflict Resolution Specialist with a Master's Degree in Social Work and a Post Graduate Certificate in Eco-psychology. She is the owner of Veterinary Social Work Solutions. Her frequency comes from New Mexico, U.S.A.
Emerson Grey's Website: https://www.veterinarysocialworksolutions.com
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Transcript: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11ZMlCakGuw1K_p6fGB3olzC74qgRP71A/view?usp=sharing
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3, 2, 1, 0.
We have a lift-off!.
Hey, there earthlings, welcome toanother episode of "The D.A.N.I.
Project" brought to you by NeoBilities.
I am your host Tessa, and I hopeyou grabbed your aluminum hat,
because we're on another explorationinto to all things, disability.
If you enjoy what we're doing hereon the podcast, and would like to
(00:22):
have access to some more exclusivecontent please, be sure to check
us out and join the crew on Patreon
.So, hello everyone.
Welcome to the podcast.
I am your host, Tessa Bathauer andthis is where we explore all things.
Disability.
I am so excited to be introducingour wonderful guest and a fellow
social worker, Emerson Gray.
Before we get started.
I just want to give her a big shoutout because she is an amazing human
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that's been working with animals andpeople alike for a long time and it's
just amazing the work that she's beendoing and the way that she has been
changing the social work profession.
So without further adieu, Emerson, do youwant to go ahead and introduce yourself?
Thank you so much for that wonderfulintroduction that you gave me.
Yeah.
I, work as a veterinary social worker, youknow, I think there's people that aren't
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quite familiar, especially still, even insocial work with veterinary social work,
what we do, or whether I should say I do.
Because I go a little bit kind ofoff grid, kind of doing my own thing
compared to some veterinary socialwork programs or things that are
out there where people who counsel.
My motto.
is basically supporting thewell-being of humans and animals.
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Yeah.
Thanks.
You know, I say that a lot.
I just got done teaching a classat the beginning of April, and I
always say that that's what I'mhere to do and the animals matter.
So that kind of is my own bottlefor veterinary social work.
and I do all sorts of different stuff.
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I work with animal associated trauma,animals and domestic violence.
I do conflict resolution andmediation services, veterinary.
I work with veterinariansand veterinary staff and do
consulting for hospitals as well.
That's amazing that you do all thatand I've know we've talked in the
past, then it, you have kind of aninteresting story of how you got there,
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but you didn't mind sharing that.
You know, I started out looking fora job, kind of in my really early
twenties, maybe 19 or 20 and I had theopportunity to work at a veterinary
hospital and I spent the next 25 yearsin veterinary medicine and I worked
kind of work my way up, um, startingas a veterinary assistant and then a
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veterinary technician, then I starteddoing some specialty kind of things
with anesthesia and stuff like that.
I really loved it and there did come apoint where I thought I kinda started
getting burned out on the clinical endof it and it was near that time when I
was diagnosed with rheumatoid diseaseand I started kind of getting tired.
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I couldn't do the things Icould do before, which I think
led me to feeling frustrated.
I didn't want to be, I didn't toget frustrated with the animals.
So I decided, you know what, I thinkit's time for me to take a break
and go and work in administration.
So I did clinical and thenI did administrative work.
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I was an administrator at ananimal hospital back in Illinois,
where I'm from, and that reallymade a big difference for me.
And it especially made a bigdifference in my decision.
I knew I wanted to go back to schooland finish my degrees and I wasn't quite
sure what direction I wanted to go in.
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If I wanted to go in the directionof being a better nurse or being a
social worker and so I figured withthe, how difficult at times veterinary
medicine can be because you have tomove animals around and do all that.
I thought, you know what?
I kind of been doing social work.
I'm working at the animal hospitaland helping out the doctors
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and the staff and clients whowould call and talking to them.
So I decided to pursue social work.
I love that and I love howintrospective you were about not
wanting to hurt the animals, you know.
As an animal owner, myself andsomebody that struggles with chronic
illness and disabilities, it's reallyeasy to become very frustrated in
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certain situations and very tired.
You know, we talk about "The Spoon"theory and how much energy it takes
to do things and having animals,that's definitely a big, it takes
a lot of energy and a lot of timeand commitment obviously to do that.
But if the different story, when itcomes to people with chronic illness
and disability, is that correct?
Yeah, it's very different because youknow, you're moving, you know, sometimes a
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hundred pounds, 150 pound animals from thefloor up into cages and things like that.
And also I am being, um, theveterinarians are trusting me to be
able to help all the animals, um, helpthem in doing what they need to do.
So if I'm not able to kind of givethat my best, then I feel that it's a
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little risky and it not only puts theanimals at risk, but it can also put the
staff and everybody else at risk too.
So it was probably a good decisiontoo do something different.
That that makes sense.
I was thinking, you know, has yourexperience having a disability and
chronic illness, has it affected theway you see your patients, the animals
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and how they themselves are goingthrough different challenges, but their,
their body, you know, getting older,getting disease, whatever it may be.
You know, I definitely think that itparallels that, you know, when you look
at the animals who are getting olderand you know, sometimes it also isn't
about age, you know, it's, it's reallysimilar to us humans, you know, too,
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we have chronic illness at all agesand, you know, it's the same thing
for animals and I think that it's verydifficult for people when they need to
start making hard decisions, end-of-lifedecisions about what they're going to
do with an animal that, um, isn't well.
Yeah, that makes sense.
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And so I think you do sort ofhospice care, is that correct?
I do.
I do some hospice care.
I do consultations.
I think there's a lot of times when theveterinarian field is really overwhelmed.
And, uh, you know, I've lived it andI've seen what it's like to have that
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pressure, you know, on the veterinariansand on the staff to be there for
clients and to be able to walk themthorugh everything, and, you know,
I have nothing but love for everybodythat's in the veterinary profession.
And I know that they're all outthere trying to do their best, but
unfortunately, you know, there's alot of clients who need, they need
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more guidance or they need morehelp or they need somebody to talk
to about that decision process andthat's kind of where I come in.
I am hoping to kind of, you know,wanting to help to ease the burden a
bit for veterinarians and the staff,you know, to be there not only for them,
but for, you know, those clients thatare really struggling with what to do.
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And they really need somebody totalk to even more than just talking
to their veterinarian or the staff.
Yeah.
I love that because, you know, I thinkI've mentioned in the past when we've
connected that I have a disabled dog who,um, basically has a terminal illness and
finding that out, with him being, he wassupposed to be a service dog was really,
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really a difficult thing to go throughand not to really have anybody there.
I think it's interesting that you bringup that veterinary clinics, and the
people working there are overwhelmed,because that's not something that I would
have really thought about it before.
Would you say that the pandemichas played a role in that?.
You know, I think it's quite somewhat ofa role, you know, I'm a little concerned
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now with things getting back to normal.
I'm hoping that all of those animalsthat were adopted, I really hope that
they did find their forever homes
and we're not going to notice anyissues when people go back to work or
they kind of get back to the regularroutine of their lives, um, how the
animals are going to fit into that.
You know, I was also thinking too, withyour circumstances of seeing that, you
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know, seeing an animal that has gonefrom assisting you and helping you to
an animal, now that the roles are alittle bit reversed it to the extent of
you're you're now the,the person assisting that
animal that once helped you.
So, um, I think that there's a lot ofemotion involved in animals who do that.
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Yeah, there is.
I think that, you know, sometimes wedon't really talk about service dogs,
or we talk about them as this kindof, we put them on a pedestal and we
don't really talk about the realityof having one and the complexities
of the emotional side of things
then the physical and financialcomponent that comes along.
And then when you take that servicedog, and most, a lot of them will end
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up getting sick at some point in theirlife or needed to be retired for some
reason and to have that, essentially thataid that you are using to mitigate your
disability, just totally taken from you
but you still have so much love, but withanimal is really a complex thing to go
through and especially, you know, Jaxson,my, my dog, he was not even a year old
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and we were just in a training process.
Wow, that sounds like that wouldbe really, really difficult to do.
Are you, are you thinking of gettinganother therapy animal or an assistant?
Yeah, that's nothing I want to do.
I have always been very connected withanimals and it was so it was such this
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amazing, unique feeling, having him bymy side, knowing that even when he was
in training, knowing that he was there.
He was my buddy who was my support andthat anything that I had to mitigate, I
had somebody there in and way, you know,and I think that's definitely something
I would want to have in a future.
Of course, the plants I put on holdbecause I'm taking care of him, but
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I think one of the things to talkabout too, is the hard thing to try to
figure out when you have a disabilityor chronic illness and you, you want,
or need a service dog, how to, howdoes your disability or illness affect
how you can take care of that dog?
Because it often changes, how you feelchanges, and it fluctuates instead of
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trying to gauge, okay, could I committo taking care of this animal properly
with the right training of financialsupport with my disability or illness?
This is a really complicatedthing I think about.
Yeah, it is complicated to think about
and there are plenty of us who haveanimals, who aren't technically service
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animals like myself, who does, who doeshave a chronic disability and, you know,
this is something I talk about too, indifferent stages in our lives, especially
even with seniors who are gettingolder and have some medical issues,
um, them taking care of their animals.
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I discuss a lot of issues concerning that.
So, you know, we are really, I, Ithink animals make such a difference
in our lives and I think what'simportant is looking at all the
options that we have when it comes tohaving a chronic illness, how we're
going to take care of our animal,
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if we can't, if something comesup, what plan is in place to
help us deal with unexpectedemergencies or things like that.
So I work with that too, with older peopleand making sure that we have friends
or for them or people in place wherethey feel comfortable that could come
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walk the dog and say, I'm not feelingwell that day or that morning, or help
take care of the animal with them.
Because I, I really like to see animalsstay with us for as long as they're
able to, you know, even if we do havedisabilities, because I think there's,
we, we get so much unconditional loveand acceptance, and we, we really are
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able to share even our emotions withand they're always there, their and
there, they care about us as well.
So I always like, you know, as aveterinary social worker to, you know,
make sure that animals can stay where, youknow, with their people and that they're
able to do that for as long as they can.
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It's the same thing too, withthe the homeless population and
being able to feed their animalsor take care of their animals.
And in situations like that,they are really family to, you
know, they, their animal could bethe only family that they have.
So, you know, I try to kind of lookinto that did volunteer work for
that with the homeless and reallypay attention to how we can keep
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everybody as healthy as possible andtogether for as long as possible.
I absolutely love that and the thingsthat you were saying register with
us a social worker, because we talka lot about when we are going through
the process of getting our degreesand stuff we talk about the benefits
of different things we could bringinto our life, whether that's religion
or animals or any sort of self care
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and it's really fascinating to dive intothe science or the understanding behind
how animals truly affect us as humansand uplift our wellbeing if you will.
Do you have any insight into that as, Idon't know any of the specifics on that?
You know, there is a lot of researchthat's been done as far as how animals
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affect us medically how they releasethose kind of feel good hormones.
And that happens too for our animals.
You know, something like oxytocin, whichis one of those uplifting, happy hormones.
Both humans and animals receive thatbenefit, which I think is great.
So it's mutual, it's an exchangethat, you know, something that
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we're both getting, um, we'relooking at people have dogs there,
they're more they're out there walkingtheir dogs, they're out there being
social, where they might've been stayedmore inside or things like that For
the physical wellbeing, um, we'relooking at the lower blood pressure,
lower heart rates, things like that.
So the research is out thereand it's been it's done.
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It's really amazing what animalscontribute to our physical, not
only our emotional wellbeing, butour physical wellbeing as well.
Yeah.
It's, it's amazing to see what animalscan do in a social workers, I think
there is really something to be said forbringing that into our practice, or at
least supporting that in our practice.
Do you feel that thisshould be a larger topic?
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I know you said you've been teachinga class or the teach a class.
How do you feel about social work and,and having animals and using animal
therapy and I those sorts of things?
Um, the class I was teaching wasspecifically for, um, social workers
and therapists and things like that.
My thing is I want to bringan awareness to social workers
so they can bring in awareness
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to get information from their clients inregards to the animals in the household.
I think we can find out a lot ofinformation as social workers when
we have the right question here orthe right form that they can fill
out when they're doing an intake.
I always say, please includequestions about animals, because
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you're going to learn a whole lot,you learn who takes care of the
animal, what the animal's like.
And unfortunately, in some cases,you will learn of, uh, some domestic
violence situations, some animalswho are being abused as well.
So there's a lot of information associal workers that I feel we can't
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ignore when it comes to doing intakesand things like that to get that basic
information from the person and howtheir household functions with, with
an animal and what that looks like.
Yeah, I like that and I know that yousaid that you do counseling which kind
of ties into the social work practice.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about what that counseling
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looks like from your side?
Yeah, you know, It reallydepends on what the person's
looking for or what they need.
I have worked with domestic violenceand something, you know, something
that's really big like that as asocial worker, you're working with
different organizations as well.
You're working not only with thefamily, but you're working with outside
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organizations that the animal needsto be placed somewhere temporary
or if somebody needs to be at adomestic violence shelter, do they
take animals and things like that.
And also, I would say another onereally is doing patient advocacy,
which is actually working with theclients and the veterinarian, if
there is any animal that's ill.
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But I also do like adoption adjustmentsto a lot of people do want to adopt,
but they haven't had a dog in along time or they don't know what
kind of dog would suited either forthemselves or for their families.
So I do do pet counseling, soit's pretty much across the board.
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I'm also a mediator, I do some disputeresolution when it comes to animals
and mediation, especially with divorcecases where there's animals involved.
We try not to get into arguing ina tug of war as where the animals
are going to go and where they'regoing to live and things like that.
Yeah, I could see how that wouldbe a very, uh, complex thing to
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try to navigate as individuals andespecially as a professional as well.
Um, and how important that could be tothe animals and making sure that they are
in the right place that they need to be
and some place where theywill be happy and healthy.
I also try to, if I'm working witha client and their animals, what I
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want to try to do is make sure thattheir animals are current on vaccines,
make sure that their health careis up to date and things like that.
If they live in a part of the country,that's prone to say to floods or
natural disasters or stuff likethat, but they somehow have a plan
in place as to what's going to happen
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with my animal.
If I need to evacuate, whereis my animal going to go?
What am I going to do?
Am I taking the animal with me?
There's also some planning that goes onand things that I would talk about that
really nobody's necessarily talking about.
I don't know how much the veterinariansare talking about that, but I really
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feel that it's good all around.
It helps the client be more at easeand that they're, they're in a state of
preparedness, even with their animal.
We've all seen the shots ofthe animal and the flood.
And there there's on the roofand our hearts are breaking.
No, what's going on?
How's this animal going to get help?
Who, who did this animal belong to?
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We have all these emotionsgoing through our mind.
If there's a way that I can work withsomebody and come up with a plan, so
whatever they feel better, I think itmakes a big difference to be prepared.
Yeah, and I think that you're right,it's just something I really honestly
hadn't thought about it as a petowner is how to plan or how to prepare
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and, you know, you just see thelittle cute little puppy or any animal
animal really, they're always cute.
You don't necessarily have the forethoughtat a time to think about how am I
going to plan for what could come up inthat lifetime that we spend together.
Yeah, you know, when I watch peoplecoming together and I see the
organizations of people trying tohelp these displaced animals, either
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because of natural disasters or even awar life with what's going on now and
Ukraine, it just, it breaks my heartthat I see these people who love their
animals and they're carrying two dogs,
they're cats and everything else.
It is also too important to advocatefor shelters to take in animals,
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whether it's the largest shelters whoare taking people in or refugees in,
or the small domestic violence animalshop, um, uh, shelters that we need to
make sure that our animals, you know,we don't want to leave them behind.
You know, we want them with us.
We want to make sure that wecan still take care of them.
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That we're going to be there for them.
Nobody wants to abandon the animal.
And if it comes down to thatcircumstance, I can't even
imagine, I just find it horrific.
Yeah, it's so saddening to seepeople having to get rid of,
essentially a loved one, and afamily member, and some buddy really.
I mean, we personify them and tosomebody that's there for us and
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care for us, and that shows ouremotions and our memories with us.
And I love that you bring Ukrainianbecause it is something that I think
the world has looked at and seen thosepictures of people carrying their
giant German shepherds across and
It's hard to even imagine being inthat situation and what would you do?
How would you feed them?
Yeah.
And I think it is a reallydifficult situation.
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I think it's difficult for people who'vehad to abandon and that's something
that I hope to help with that kind ofaftermath of, of that trauma, because
truly animals are, they are our familyand I think many, many people see
their animals as part of theirfamily and they are not going
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to leave their animals behind.
But unfortunately there arecircumstances where they aren't
given any chance with that.
So I think that could just be devastatingand have a huge traumatic impact on
the person or children or anybody,because that's essentially a loss.
We lose animals in different ways.
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We don't always lose them to illness.
We lose them to natural disasterslike we're talking about.
We lose them to places we need to liveand we can no longer have an animal.
So there's a lot of differentkinds of losses that go on that I'm
hoping to help people get through.
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Yeah, and I think that that is so neededbecause it really is, it can be very
traumatic and it can be a grieving processand I hope that our listeners out there,
if they're interested in this, thatthey reach out to you and look at ways
of how to try to incorporate that intothe advocacy work they're doing, or just
who they are supporting in the shelters
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and if you're a social worker, howcan you start bringing that into your
practice and asking important questions.
So you got into this workabout 30 years ago correct?
Yeah, no.
About 30 years ago, I got into itand you know, I absolutely love it.
I like having the veterinary experiencebecause it offers a different perspective.
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I feel like it gives me a differentperspective than just necessarily
being only the veterinarian or onlythe social worker and having lived
through numerous animal emergencysituations, not only working on that
animal, but also trying to comfortpet guardians and things like that.
So I think the combinationfor me has worked out well.
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Yeah, and how long have you been doingthe social work combination with it?
You know, I've been doing it probablynow for about three years or so.
And prior to that, I was the, uh,like we talked about the prior
working as a practice administrator.
During that time, I had alot of time to work with
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veterinarians and veterinary staff.
It's a difficult job to do, and wecan talk about PTSD, fatigue, and
things like that, that compassion,fatigue syndrome that the
veterinarians and the staff experience.
It's not easy day in and day out.
It can't, you know, it can it, andI know there's a wonderful side
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and there's a hard side to it.
I'd definitely say it's worth it.
I think I've heard veterinary techs andstuff talk about how people in the public
often respond by saying that the hardestpart is when you have, they can imagine
putting down a pet but what I've heardfrom other, other folks that actually work
in the vet industry is that there's a lotof in-between, that's actually harder.
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Yeah.
There was a lot of in between, like I'veseen a lot of things, I've heard a lot of
stories, I've cried, with numerous owners.
I don't like to use thatword, but guardians it's been
kind of an amazing journey.
And I feel like I'm really excited nowat this point in my life, to be able
to incorporate, not having to leavenecessarily animals or the veterinary
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end, but to be able to incorporatethat into my social work practice.
It's just been ideal, anideal circumstance for me.
Yeah, and it seems likesomething that is so needed.
I know when we first reachedout to me, I got so excited.
Having my own personal experienceswith, uh, with my dog Jaxson and
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just, I really do think it's somethingthat should continue to grow and I
hope help that you could be at theforefront of that and teach people
because you have so much knowledge.
One thing that I think is important,I talk about if you don't mind, is
the idea being a chronically illor disabled business owner, because
that is in and of itself as just thewhole other world to try to navigate.
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And I don't know if you couldtalk a little bit about that.
Yeah.
When I decided to start my ownbusiness, um, I felt very fortunate.
I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico,and they have an amazing program
for new businesses owners.
And I was able really to get thehelp and the coaching that I needed.
That made a really big difference forme to have that support from a business
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coach, especially with paperwork andthis whole other business realm that I
really didn't know a whole lot about.
So that was incredibly helpful.
I think having a disability and being abusiness owner, I think there's a whole
bunch of positives to that in the senseof, I have control over my own schedule.
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I could take breaks if I need to, Ican pay attention to that self-care so
I don't get burnt out or things likethat, which I think is so important
for people who have chronic illnesses.
So just really, I really payattention to my self care.
We'll see what happens, you know, ifit gets too crazy busy, I may take on
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another veterinary social worker in thefuture, but for right now it's been going
really well and I think it's just reallypaying attention to my own body and what
it needs and to really take care of that
cause if I kinda over, if I do toomuch, I hope to find that happy medium.
Basically, if I do too much, then I getreally, really tired and I'm kind of
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drained if I don't do enough, then I feellike I'm still kind of, I'm not feeling
that well and kind of stiff and sore.
So it's always that findingthat middle at work.
Uh, do you feel like having a disabilityor chronic illness has changed
the way you go about interactingwith the people in your business?
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You know, I don't thinkit changes that much.
I do think it changes if I'm workingwith somebody who has a disability
and sharing some of my own, I'm notopposed to sharing my own personal
experiences with that, or working withpeople who need emotional support dogs
or therapy, dogs, or things like that.
So I think it's really about just beingopen and being honest with having a
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disability and what I can and can't do.
Usually with counseling and situationslike this, it's pretty much like
we're doing now or it's on zoomor things like that, but I just
think it's a balance, like I said.
Yeah, and I think you bring up a goodpoint about at being on zoom, because
I know that at least for me, withthe pandemic, the having things go
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virtual was kinda this weird shift
at being less accessible, butmore accessible at the same time.
For me, being hard of hearing, I can'thear as well on a virtual setting, but I
can do more because I don't have to pushmy body so much to get to where I'm going
and oh, all of those types of things.
And I think that's an importantconversation to have about accessibility,
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especially as a business owner.
Yeah, I think accessibilityit's made a big difference to
have that kind of same option.
I also think there's something tobe said to have an office and having
somebody there and talking in person.
I think that that's important as well.
I do miss that, but I think zoom haskind of taken away that interaction that
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I think is really important, but I dothink it's made a big difference for me
with my disability.
It's still being able to pursueworking in a career and it's
made a big, big difference.
Yeah, you know, a lot of times we mighttalk about disability when that comes up
is employment and how employment goes downwhen people are disabled or, you know,
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they come to be disabled and some way itbecomes harder and harder to be employed.
And I think a lot of people withdisabilities kind of look towards
trying to create some sort ofbusiness for themselves, but can use
the skills that they have and be ableto have a flexible schedule that is
accessible for them however that looks.
I also think, you know, it'simportant for people to speak up.
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I never quite was,
I never quite spoke up for my disabilityand by that I mean, you know, if there
were things I needed and when I was atwork or if I needed a different chair or
if I needed something that would be easierfor me to do, my tendency was to go ahead
and do it anyways and keep my mouth shut.
(30:25):
So it took me a while and in my ownpersonal journey and growth, to be
able to share my disability and tobe able to go, these are some things
I need, and these are some things Ineed even in the work environment.
And I found, I mean, most are willing toget me the things that I need of course,
'cause, that's what they need to do.
(30:47):
But I think me speaking up hasmade a big difference to be my
own advocate, if that makes sense.
That absolutely makes sense and and thatit is something, I think a lot of people
with chronic illness and disabilitiesstruggle with is, the advocating
for yourself part, especially inprofessional settings, you know, the idea
(31:08):
what do we consider professionalor how am I going to come across?
And I guess, I don't know ifyou have any thoughts about how
professionalism plays into this fullidea of advocating for yourself.
Well, I mean, I think had, webeen in school and studying and
being a social worker I do thinkthat that makes a big difference.
I'm used to the advocating, right?
(31:30):
I'm used to advocating for animals.
I used to be advocating for peoplebecause there's an element of
that uh, being a social worker.
That's what we do.
To bring that advocacy aroundfor me um, for my benefit,
that's kind of a different story.
So I do think that being a socialworker has helped me to be more
(31:52):
open, be more honest with people,ask myself why I'm not sharing the
fact that I have a chronic illness.
Why do I feel sometimes the needto keep it to myself so, you know,
really just being honest with myselfand it's made all the difference.
I liked that you bring up the ideaof asking yourself why that is
(32:15):
something that I have I tried to haveconversations with folks about it.
It's the, why are we usingthe language that we're using?
Or why are we prohibitingeither ourselves or others with
disabilities from doing something?
Even just language, likesaying wheelchair bound.
Well, why are we saying bound?
What is the thought process behind that?
(32:36):
And I think it's important that we dothe self-reflection in that as well.
Oh, definitely.
I definitely think that.
And I think, you know, being asocial worker too, you know, the
more I can educate people about mydisability and be honest and how that
affects me or my life or what I do.
I have found that people havebeen nothing but supportive.
(32:57):
So I think you just have to be honestand look at your own stuff, like we all
have to and how can I make my job easier?
Is there anything I need thatwould make it more helpful?
And just to really advocate for myself.
And if I'm having a bad day,it's, I'm going to have bad days.
(33:18):
I have an auto-immune disease.
So I know those days, if there's a waythat I can either leave work early or
take care of myself or get some extrarest that I need, I feel like it's
going to make that much of a differencein how I do my job and what I'm doing.
And besides being a social worker, youknow, I would have this conversation
(33:40):
with somebody and go, well, whatdo you need to do differently?
Or how are you advocating for yourself?
I try to practice what I preach.
Yeah, that's that's always important.
*Indecernable* It's not,no, it really isn't.
It really isn't.
Um, Yeah, I think is one of the thingsthat I you know, sitting here listening
to you and I'm thinking about it,
(34:01):
Is the differences that people have inperceiving a visible disability, like
somebody using a wheelchair or somethingof that sort versus an invisible
disability and chronic illness, I knowfor myself, I've run into alot of it.
It's much more complicated to navigatethat and advocate for that because people
can't see it and it's really hard forpeople to understand a chronic illness.
(34:25):
Something that it's not going away, andit changes day to day, sometimes hour
by hour and minute by minute, right?
Yeah.
You know, uh, the invisible disabilitything, I'm, uh, I'm a real active in
that area and there's a really goodinvisible disability organization.
I know for me when I get reallypainful and I get unstable and I
(34:47):
need to use a cane or something likethat, it's really interesting because
part of me doesn't want to use it.
Part of me goes, oh, this would bemuch easier if people saw that I had a
disability, then treating me like I'mfine and all this and blah, blah, blah.
But I think that I'm the one who'sresponsible to give that information out.
(35:10):
How I'm feeling or what Ican and can't do once again.
So I really think it's a matter ofletting people know where I'm at,
because they can't be mind readers.
Yeah, and I appreciate that becauseI also use a cane sometimes and I
do find myself thinking in the samebreath, oh, this would make it easier
(35:33):
and that's what makes it harder.
But it, there is something to be saidfor it is your responsibility, but
it's also its yours to share and soit's this weird trying to protect,
but also advocate for yourself.
And I, I don't know about you, but like inairports and stuff I always have such this
weird conflict because I, I use my canein the airport and, you know, and when
(35:53):
we had Jax we trained in the airport andstuff, and it's nice to have a mobility
aid or my service dog there, whatever.
But at the same time you don't knowhow people are going to react or what
assumptions they're gonna make about you.
Well, and I also think too, it's veryinteresting and some of the research
I've looked at with service animalsis they do open up dialogue between
(36:17):
people that normally wouldn't be there.
So, you know, people tend when people seepeople with an animal disabled or not,
there is a tendency to talk about animals
together or talk about your dog oryour the other person's dog together.
So there's a social aspect of animalsthat are present when we're at the dog
(36:41):
park and kind of having that camaraderiewith other people who have animals.
And I think, I don't know if that's beenyour experience with being at the airport.
I don't know, do they tend to leaveyou alone or do they come up to
you and go, oh, who's this there?
Do they acknowledge the service staff?
I think there's a mix of people.
(37:02):
You know, it's just a hard topicbecause people are, are pet owners
or guardians of service dogs.
They, it does provide a social aspectand it does encourage you to get
out more and be more independent andengage in life outside of your home.
But there are a lot of people thatare very disrespectful or not quite
aware of how to approach it andthey'll just touch the service dog.
(37:23):
even though there's "do not touch"all over it or they'll distract it and
of course that lasts a safety issue.
But for myself personally, I didn'thave too many instances where that
happened, but I did have folks whowere polite and ask, what is his
breed or where did I get him from?
Um, or what are we trainingfor and stuff like that.
And that was nice because it feltlike that was an opening to talk about
(37:47):
things in an appropriate way thatwas actually beneficial to everybody.
And I loved, absolutely loved when parentswould, they wouldn't approach me the
family, but you would hear the parentstalking to the little kids about like,
that's a service dog, do not distractthem and like kinda teaching them.
It was really encouraging tosee like maybe we were going
in the right direction here.
(38:08):
Sure, I bet.
It's a very interesting experience,you know, I wish I had more to say
on it because we did have to pullhim from training but what you say
about dogs being a huge part oflike your family and with service
dogs, he was by my side all the time
and he continues to be, evenafter I pulled him from training.
And the bond, there is just theamazing and I love that you're trying
(38:31):
to facilitate that and it encouragethat kind of connection in people
are being able to hold on it that.
And I was just wanted to thank you somuch for coming on this podcast and
sharing your story and your insightand being vulnerable with people.
Um, is there a way that folks can reachout to you that have been listening?
Sure.
(38:51):
They can go to my website, it'sveterinarysocialworksolutions.com
and you can kind of look on thereand see what it is that I do.
You can contact me from thewebsite or you can reach me.
You can call me the office numberis area code 5 0 5- 3 9 3 -9 7 3 3.
(39:13):
Either way is fine.
This way you kind of get to lookand see more of, of what I do.
I'll be posting your information andour social media folks can go on there
and also on a transcript to be ableto find that information as well.
And I believe you were kind enoughto give our listeners a promo code
(39:33):
for a half an hour free half an hour
consult did that.
Promo code is G R E Y.2022.
When you go ahead and reach outto Emerson, go ahead and make
sure you include that promo codein and talk with her and learn
all the insights that you can.
I just want to say, thank you somuch for having me on it was great.
(39:54):
You know, I love the work you're doingas well, especially working with social
workers and disabilities and, youknow, bringing that to the forefront.
It's super courageous.
It's really needed and appreciated.
So thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.
Of course, of course.
And Thank You!
Definitely don't forget to use thepromo code and reach out to Emerson.
(40:16):
We'll have everythingand the social media.
Until next time!
Well, earthlings that'sit for today's broadcast.
As Carl Sagan once said"Somewhere, something incredible
is waiting to be known".
Thank you so much for tuning in thisweek and I hope to see you next week.
(40:37):
Be sure to check us out on social mediaat neobilities everywhere and use the
hashtag #TheDaniProject to continue theseimportant discussions around disability.
You can also join the crew onPatreon for more exclusive content.
Until next time.....PEACE OUT!.
3, 2, 1, 0.
We have a lift-off!.
Hey, there earthlings, welcome toanother episode of "The D.A.N.I.
Project" brought to you by NeoBilities.
I am your host Tessa, and I hopeyou grabbed your aluminum hat,
because we're on another explorationinto to all things, disability.
If you enjoy what we're doing hereon the podcast, and would like to
(00:22):
have access to some more exclusivecontent please, be sure to check
us out and join the crew on Patreon
.So, hello everyone.
Welcome to the podcast.
I am your host, Tessa Bathauer andthis is where we explore all things.
Disability.
I am so excited to be introducingour wonderful guest and a fellow
social worker, Emerson Gray.
Before we get started.
I just want to give her a big shoutout because she is an amazing human
(00:43):
that's been working with animals andpeople alike for a long time and it's
just amazing the work that she's beendoing and the way that she has been
changing the social work profession.
So without further adieu, Emerson, do youwant to go ahead and introduce yourself?
Thank you so much for that wonderfulintroduction that you gave me.
Yeah.
I, work as a veterinary social worker, youknow, I think there's people that aren't
(01:05):
quite familiar, especially still, even insocial work with veterinary social work,
what we do, or whether I should say I do.
Because I go a little bit kind ofoff grid, kind of doing my own thing
compared to some veterinary socialwork programs or things that are
out there where people who counsel.
My motto.
is basically supporting thewell-being of humans and animals.
(01:30):
Yeah.
Thanks.
You know, I say that a lot.
I just got done teaching a classat the beginning of April, and I
always say that that's what I'mhere to do and the animals matter.
So that kind of is my own bottlefor veterinary social work.
and I do all sorts of different stuff.
(01:51):
I work with animal associated trauma,animals and domestic violence.
I do conflict resolution andmediation services, veterinary.
I work with veterinariansand veterinary staff and do
consulting for hospitals as well.
That's amazing that you do all thatand I've know we've talked in the
past, then it, you have kind of aninteresting story of how you got there,
(02:13):
but you didn't mind sharing that.
You know, I started out looking fora job, kind of in my really early
twenties, maybe 19 or 20 and I had theopportunity to work at a veterinary
hospital and I spent the next 25 yearsin veterinary medicine and I worked
kind of work my way up, um, startingas a veterinary assistant and then a
(02:35):
veterinary technician, then I starteddoing some specialty kind of things
with anesthesia and stuff like that.
I really loved it and there did come apoint where I thought I kinda started
getting burned out on the clinical endof it and it was near that time when I
was diagnosed with rheumatoid diseaseand I started kind of getting tired.
(02:58):
I couldn't do the things Icould do before, which I think
led me to feeling frustrated.
I didn't want to be, I didn't toget frustrated with the animals.
So I decided, you know what, I thinkit's time for me to take a break
and go and work in administration.
So I did clinical and thenI did administrative work.
(03:20):
I was an administrator at ananimal hospital back in Illinois,
where I'm from, and that reallymade a big difference for me.
And it especially made a bigdifference in my decision.
I knew I wanted to go back to schooland finish my degrees and I wasn't quite
sure what direction I wanted to go in.
(03:41):
If I wanted to go in the directionof being a better nurse or being a
social worker and so I figured withthe, how difficult at times veterinary
medicine can be because you have tomove animals around and do all that.
I thought, you know what?
I kind of been doing social work.
I'm working at the animal hospitaland helping out the doctors
(04:02):
and the staff and clients whowould call and talking to them.
So I decided to pursue social work.
I love that and I love howintrospective you were about not
wanting to hurt the animals, you know.
As an animal owner, myself andsomebody that struggles with chronic
illness and disabilities, it's reallyeasy to become very frustrated in
(04:23):
certain situations and very tired.
You know, we talk about "The Spoon"theory and how much energy it takes
to do things and having animals,that's definitely a big, it takes
a lot of energy and a lot of timeand commitment obviously to do that.
But if the different story, when itcomes to people with chronic illness
and disability, is that correct?
Yeah, it's very different because youknow, you're moving, you know, sometimes a
(04:48):
hundred pounds, 150 pound animals from thefloor up into cages and things like that.
And also I am being, um, theveterinarians are trusting me to be
able to help all the animals, um, helpthem in doing what they need to do.
So if I'm not able to kind of givethat my best, then I feel that it's a
(05:11):
little risky and it not only puts theanimals at risk, but it can also put the
staff and everybody else at risk too.
So it was probably a good decisiontoo do something different.
That that makes sense.
I was thinking, you know, has yourexperience having a disability and
chronic illness, has it affected theway you see your patients, the animals
(05:33):
and how they themselves are goingthrough different challenges, but their,
their body, you know, getting older,getting disease, whatever it may be.
You know, I definitely think that itparallels that, you know, when you look
at the animals who are getting olderand you know, sometimes it also isn't
about age, you know, it's, it's reallysimilar to us humans, you know, too,
(05:56):
we have chronic illness at all agesand, you know, it's the same thing
for animals and I think that it's verydifficult for people when they need to
start making hard decisions, end-of-lifedecisions about what they're going to
do with an animal that, um, isn't well.
Yeah, that makes sense.
(06:17):
And so I think you do sort ofhospice care, is that correct?
I do.
I do some hospice care.
I do consultations.
I think there's a lot of times when theveterinarian field is really overwhelmed.
And, uh, you know, I've lived it andI've seen what it's like to have that
(06:37):
pressure, you know, on the veterinariansand on the staff to be there for
clients and to be able to walk themthorugh everything, and, you know,
I have nothing but love for everybodythat's in the veterinary profession.
And I know that they're all outthere trying to do their best, but
unfortunately, you know, there's alot of clients who need, they need
(06:58):
more guidance or they need morehelp or they need somebody to talk
to about that decision process andthat's kind of where I come in.
I am hoping to kind of, you know,wanting to help to ease the burden a
bit for veterinarians and the staff,you know, to be there not only for them,
but for, you know, those clients thatare really struggling with what to do.
(07:21):
And they really need somebody totalk to even more than just talking
to their veterinarian or the staff.
Yeah.
I love that because, you know, I thinkI've mentioned in the past when we've
connected that I have a disabled dog who,um, basically has a terminal illness and
finding that out, with him being, he wassupposed to be a service dog was really,
(07:42):
really a difficult thing to go throughand not to really have anybody there.
I think it's interesting that you bringup that veterinary clinics, and the
people working there are overwhelmed,because that's not something that I would
have really thought about it before.
Would you say that the pandemichas played a role in that?.
You know, I think it's quite somewhat ofa role, you know, I'm a little concerned
(08:05):
now with things getting back to normal.
I'm hoping that all of those animalsthat were adopted, I really hope that
they did find their forever homes
and we're not going to notice anyissues when people go back to work or
they kind of get back to the regularroutine of their lives, um, how the
animals are going to fit into that.
You know, I was also thinking too, withyour circumstances of seeing that, you
(08:29):
know, seeing an animal that has gonefrom assisting you and helping you to
an animal, now that the roles are alittle bit reversed it to the extent of
you're you're now the,the person assisting that
animal that once helped you.
So, um, I think that there's a lot ofemotion involved in animals who do that.
(08:52):
Yeah, there is.
I think that, you know, sometimes wedon't really talk about service dogs,
or we talk about them as this kindof, we put them on a pedestal and we
don't really talk about the realityof having one and the complexities
of the emotional side of things
then the physical and financialcomponent that comes along.
And then when you take that servicedog, and most, a lot of them will end
(09:14):
up getting sick at some point in theirlife or needed to be retired for some
reason and to have that, essentially thataid that you are using to mitigate your
disability, just totally taken from you
but you still have so much love, but withanimal is really a complex thing to go
through and especially, you know, Jaxson,my, my dog, he was not even a year old
(09:36):
and we were just in a training process.
Wow, that sounds like that wouldbe really, really difficult to do.
Are you, are you thinking of gettinganother therapy animal or an assistant?
Yeah, that's nothing I want to do.
I have always been very connected withanimals and it was so it was such this
(09:57):
amazing, unique feeling, having him bymy side, knowing that even when he was
in training, knowing that he was there.
He was my buddy who was my support andthat anything that I had to mitigate, I
had somebody there in and way, you know,and I think that's definitely something
I would want to have in a future.
Of course, the plants I put on holdbecause I'm taking care of him, but
(10:21):
I think one of the things to talkabout too, is the hard thing to try to
figure out when you have a disabilityor chronic illness and you, you want,
or need a service dog, how to, howdoes your disability or illness affect
how you can take care of that dog?
Because it often changes, how you feelchanges, and it fluctuates instead of
(10:43):
trying to gauge, okay, could I committo taking care of this animal properly
with the right training of financialsupport with my disability or illness?
This is a really complicatedthing I think about.
Yeah, it is complicated to think about
and there are plenty of us who haveanimals, who aren't technically service
(11:04):
animals like myself, who does, who doeshave a chronic disability and, you know,
this is something I talk about too, indifferent stages in our lives, especially
even with seniors who are gettingolder and have some medical issues,
um, them taking care of their animals.
(11:25):
I discuss a lot of issues concerning that.
So, you know, we are really, I, Ithink animals make such a difference
in our lives and I think what'simportant is looking at all the
options that we have when it comes tohaving a chronic illness, how we're
going to take care of our animal,
(11:45):
if we can't, if something comesup, what plan is in place to
help us deal with unexpectedemergencies or things like that.
So I work with that too, with older peopleand making sure that we have friends
or for them or people in place wherethey feel comfortable that could come
(12:07):
walk the dog and say, I'm not feelingwell that day or that morning, or help
take care of the animal with them.
Because I, I really like to see animalsstay with us for as long as they're
able to, you know, even if we do havedisabilities, because I think there's,
we, we get so much unconditional loveand acceptance, and we, we really are
(12:30):
able to share even our emotions withand they're always there, their and
there, they care about us as well.
So I always like, you know, as aveterinary social worker to, you know,
make sure that animals can stay where, youknow, with their people and that they're
able to do that for as long as they can.
(12:51):
It's the same thing too, withthe the homeless population and
being able to feed their animalsor take care of their animals.
And in situations like that,they are really family to, you
know, they, their animal could bethe only family that they have.
So, you know, I try to kind of lookinto that did volunteer work for
that with the homeless and reallypay attention to how we can keep
(13:14):
everybody as healthy as possible andtogether for as long as possible.
I absolutely love that and the thingsthat you were saying register with
us a social worker, because we talka lot about when we are going through
the process of getting our degreesand stuff we talk about the benefits
of different things we could bringinto our life, whether that's religion
or animals or any sort of self care
(13:37):
and it's really fascinating to dive intothe science or the understanding behind
how animals truly affect us as humansand uplift our wellbeing if you will.
Do you have any insight into that as, Idon't know any of the specifics on that?
You know, there is a lot of researchthat's been done as far as how animals
(13:59):
affect us medically how they releasethose kind of feel good hormones.
And that happens too for our animals.
You know, something like oxytocin, whichis one of those uplifting, happy hormones.
Both humans and animals receive thatbenefit, which I think is great.
So it's mutual, it's an exchangethat, you know, something that
(14:21):
we're both getting, um, we'relooking at people have dogs there,
they're more they're out there walkingtheir dogs, they're out there being
social, where they might've been stayedmore inside or things like that For
the physical wellbeing, um, we'relooking at the lower blood pressure,
lower heart rates, things like that.
So the research is out thereand it's been it's done.
(14:43):
It's really amazing what animalscontribute to our physical, not
only our emotional wellbeing, butour physical wellbeing as well.
Yeah.
It's, it's amazing to see what animalscan do in a social workers, I think
there is really something to be said forbringing that into our practice, or at
least supporting that in our practice.
Do you feel that thisshould be a larger topic?
(15:06):
I know you said you've been teachinga class or the teach a class.
How do you feel about social work and,and having animals and using animal
therapy and I those sorts of things?
Um, the class I was teaching wasspecifically for, um, social workers
and therapists and things like that.
My thing is I want to bringan awareness to social workers
so they can bring in awareness
(15:28):
to get information from their clients inregards to the animals in the household.
I think we can find out a lot ofinformation as social workers when
we have the right question here orthe right form that they can fill
out when they're doing an intake.
I always say, please includequestions about animals, because
(15:50):
you're going to learn a whole lot,you learn who takes care of the
animal, what the animal's like.
And unfortunately, in some cases,you will learn of, uh, some domestic
violence situations, some animalswho are being abused as well.
So there's a lot of information associal workers that I feel we can't
(16:10):
ignore when it comes to doing intakesand things like that to get that basic
information from the person and howtheir household functions with, with
an animal and what that looks like.
Yeah, I like that and I know that yousaid that you do counseling which kind
of ties into the social work practice.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about what that counseling
(16:32):
looks like from your side?
Yeah, you know, It reallydepends on what the person's
looking for or what they need.
I have worked with domestic violenceand something, you know, something
that's really big like that as asocial worker, you're working with
different organizations as well.
You're working not only with thefamily, but you're working with outside
(16:53):
organizations that the animal needsto be placed somewhere temporary
or if somebody needs to be at adomestic violence shelter, do they
take animals and things like that.
And also, I would say another onereally is doing patient advocacy,
which is actually working with theclients and the veterinarian, if
there is any animal that's ill.
(17:15):
But I also do like adoption adjustmentsto a lot of people do want to adopt,
but they haven't had a dog in along time or they don't know what
kind of dog would suited either forthemselves or for their families.
So I do do pet counseling, soit's pretty much across the board.
(17:35):
I'm also a mediator, I do some disputeresolution when it comes to animals
and mediation, especially with divorcecases where there's animals involved.
We try not to get into arguing ina tug of war as where the animals
are going to go and where they'regoing to live and things like that.
Yeah, I could see how that wouldbe a very, uh, complex thing to
(17:56):
try to navigate as individuals andespecially as a professional as well.
Um, and how important that could be tothe animals and making sure that they are
in the right place that they need to be
and some place where theywill be happy and healthy.
I also try to, if I'm working witha client and their animals, what I
(18:16):
want to try to do is make sure thattheir animals are current on vaccines,
make sure that their health careis up to date and things like that.
If they live in a part of the country,that's prone to say to floods or
natural disasters or stuff likethat, but they somehow have a plan
in place as to what's going to happen
(18:39):
with my animal.
If I need to evacuate, whereis my animal going to go?
What am I going to do?
Am I taking the animal with me?
There's also some planning that goes onand things that I would talk about that
really nobody's necessarily talking about.
I don't know how much the veterinariansare talking about that, but I really
(19:01):
feel that it's good all around.
It helps the client be more at easeand that they're, they're in a state of
preparedness, even with their animal.
We've all seen the shots ofthe animal and the flood.
And there there's on the roofand our hearts are breaking.
No, what's going on?
How's this animal going to get help?
Who, who did this animal belong to?
(19:22):
We have all these emotionsgoing through our mind.
If there's a way that I can work withsomebody and come up with a plan, so
whatever they feel better, I think itmakes a big difference to be prepared.
Yeah, and I think that you're right,it's just something I really honestly
hadn't thought about it as a petowner is how to plan or how to prepare
(19:44):
and, you know, you just see thelittle cute little puppy or any animal
animal really, they're always cute.
You don't necessarily have the forethoughtat a time to think about how am I
going to plan for what could come up inthat lifetime that we spend together.
Yeah, you know, when I watch peoplecoming together and I see the
organizations of people trying tohelp these displaced animals, either
(20:08):
because of natural disasters or even awar life with what's going on now and
Ukraine, it just, it breaks my heartthat I see these people who love their
animals and they're carrying two dogs,
they're cats and everything else.
It is also too important to advocatefor shelters to take in animals,
(20:31):
whether it's the largest shelters whoare taking people in or refugees in,
or the small domestic violence animalshop, um, uh, shelters that we need to
make sure that our animals, you know,we don't want to leave them behind.
You know, we want them with us.
We want to make sure that wecan still take care of them.
(20:53):
That we're going to be there for them.
Nobody wants to abandon the animal.
And if it comes down to thatcircumstance, I can't even
imagine, I just find it horrific.
Yeah, it's so saddening to seepeople having to get rid of,
essentially a loved one, and afamily member, and some buddy really.
I mean, we personify them and tosomebody that's there for us and
(21:17):
care for us, and that shows ouremotions and our memories with us.
And I love that you bring Ukrainianbecause it is something that I think
the world has looked at and seen thosepictures of people carrying their
giant German shepherds across and
It's hard to even imagine being inthat situation and what would you do?
How would you feed them?
Yeah.
And I think it is a reallydifficult situation.
(21:40):
I think it's difficult for people who'vehad to abandon and that's something
that I hope to help with that kind ofaftermath of, of that trauma, because
truly animals are, they are our familyand I think many, many people see
their animals as part of theirfamily and they are not going
(22:03):
to leave their animals behind.
But unfortunately there arecircumstances where they aren't
given any chance with that.
So I think that could just be devastatingand have a huge traumatic impact on
the person or children or anybody,because that's essentially a loss.
We lose animals in different ways.
(22:24):
We don't always lose them to illness.
We lose them to natural disasterslike we're talking about.
We lose them to places we need to liveand we can no longer have an animal.
So there's a lot of differentkinds of losses that go on that I'm
hoping to help people get through.
(22:44):
Yeah, and I think that that is so neededbecause it really is, it can be very
traumatic and it can be a grieving processand I hope that our listeners out there,
if they're interested in this, thatthey reach out to you and look at ways
of how to try to incorporate that intothe advocacy work they're doing, or just
who they are supporting in the shelters
(23:06):
and if you're a social worker, howcan you start bringing that into your
practice and asking important questions.
So you got into this workabout 30 years ago correct?
Yeah, no.
About 30 years ago, I got into itand you know, I absolutely love it.
I like having the veterinary experiencebecause it offers a different perspective.
(23:26):
I feel like it gives me a differentperspective than just necessarily
being only the veterinarian or onlythe social worker and having lived
through numerous animal emergencysituations, not only working on that
animal, but also trying to comfortpet guardians and things like that.
So I think the combinationfor me has worked out well.
(23:49):
Yeah, and how long have you been doingthe social work combination with it?
You know, I've been doing it probablynow for about three years or so.
And prior to that, I was the, uh,like we talked about the prior
working as a practice administrator.
During that time, I had alot of time to work with
(24:09):
veterinarians and veterinary staff.
It's a difficult job to do, and wecan talk about PTSD, fatigue, and
things like that, that compassion,fatigue syndrome that the
veterinarians and the staff experience.
It's not easy day in and day out.
It can't, you know, it can it, andI know there's a wonderful side
(24:31):
and there's a hard side to it.
I'd definitely say it's worth it.
I think I've heard veterinary techs andstuff talk about how people in the public
often respond by saying that the hardestpart is when you have, they can imagine
putting down a pet but what I've heardfrom other, other folks that actually work
in the vet industry is that there's a lotof in-between, that's actually harder.
(24:54):
Yeah.
There was a lot of in between, like I'veseen a lot of things, I've heard a lot of
stories, I've cried, with numerous owners.
I don't like to use thatword, but guardians it's been
kind of an amazing journey.
And I feel like I'm really excited nowat this point in my life, to be able
to incorporate, not having to leavenecessarily animals or the veterinary
(25:19):
end, but to be able to incorporatethat into my social work practice.
It's just been ideal, anideal circumstance for me.
Yeah, and it seems likesomething that is so needed.
I know when we first reachedout to me, I got so excited.
Having my own personal experienceswith, uh, with my dog Jaxson and
(25:39):
just, I really do think it's somethingthat should continue to grow and I
hope help that you could be at theforefront of that and teach people
because you have so much knowledge.
One thing that I think is important,I talk about if you don't mind, is
the idea being a chronically illor disabled business owner, because
that is in and of itself as just thewhole other world to try to navigate.
(26:02):
And I don't know if you couldtalk a little bit about that.
Yeah.
When I decided to start my ownbusiness, um, I felt very fortunate.
I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico,and they have an amazing program
for new businesses owners.
And I was able really to get thehelp and the coaching that I needed.
That made a really big difference forme to have that support from a business
(26:26):
coach, especially with paperwork andthis whole other business realm that I
really didn't know a whole lot about.
So that was incredibly helpful.
I think having a disability and being abusiness owner, I think there's a whole
bunch of positives to that in the senseof, I have control over my own schedule.
(26:48):
I could take breaks if I need to, Ican pay attention to that self-care so
I don't get burnt out or things likethat, which I think is so important
for people who have chronic illnesses.
So just really, I really payattention to my self care.
We'll see what happens, you know, ifit gets too crazy busy, I may take on
(27:09):
another veterinary social worker in thefuture, but for right now it's been going
really well and I think it's just reallypaying attention to my own body and what
it needs and to really take care of that
cause if I kinda over, if I do toomuch, I hope to find that happy medium.
Basically, if I do too much, then I getreally, really tired and I'm kind of
(27:32):
drained if I don't do enough, then I feellike I'm still kind of, I'm not feeling
that well and kind of stiff and sore.
So it's always that findingthat middle at work.
Uh, do you feel like having a disabilityor chronic illness has changed
the way you go about interactingwith the people in your business?
(27:53):
You know, I don't thinkit changes that much.
I do think it changes if I'm workingwith somebody who has a disability
and sharing some of my own, I'm notopposed to sharing my own personal
experiences with that, or working withpeople who need emotional support dogs
or therapy, dogs, or things like that.
So I think it's really about just beingopen and being honest with having a
(28:17):
disability and what I can and can't do.
Usually with counseling and situationslike this, it's pretty much like
we're doing now or it's on zoomor things like that, but I just
think it's a balance, like I said.
Yeah, and I think you bring up a goodpoint about at being on zoom, because
I know that at least for me, withthe pandemic, the having things go
(28:38):
virtual was kinda this weird shift
at being less accessible, butmore accessible at the same time.
For me, being hard of hearing, I can'thear as well on a virtual setting, but I
can do more because I don't have to pushmy body so much to get to where I'm going
and oh, all of those types of things.
And I think that's an importantconversation to have about accessibility,
(28:59):
especially as a business owner.
Yeah, I think accessibilityit's made a big difference to
have that kind of same option.
I also think there's something tobe said to have an office and having
somebody there and talking in person.
I think that that's important as well.
I do miss that, but I think zoom haskind of taken away that interaction that
(29:20):
I think is really important, but I dothink it's made a big difference for me
with my disability.
It's still being able to pursueworking in a career and it's
made a big, big difference.
Yeah, you know, a lot of times we mighttalk about disability when that comes up
is employment and how employment goes downwhen people are disabled or, you know,
(29:42):
they come to be disabled and some way itbecomes harder and harder to be employed.
And I think a lot of people withdisabilities kind of look towards
trying to create some sort ofbusiness for themselves, but can use
the skills that they have and be ableto have a flexible schedule that is
accessible for them however that looks.
I also think, you know, it'simportant for people to speak up.
(30:04):
I never quite was,
I never quite spoke up for my disabilityand by that I mean, you know, if there
were things I needed and when I was atwork or if I needed a different chair or
if I needed something that would be easierfor me to do, my tendency was to go ahead
and do it anyways and keep my mouth shut.
(30:25):
So it took me a while and in my ownpersonal journey and growth, to be
able to share my disability and tobe able to go, these are some things
I need, and these are some things Ineed even in the work environment.
And I found, I mean, most are willing toget me the things that I need of course,
'cause, that's what they need to do.
(30:47):
But I think me speaking up hasmade a big difference to be my
own advocate, if that makes sense.
That absolutely makes sense and and thatit is something, I think a lot of people
with chronic illness and disabilitiesstruggle with is, the advocating
for yourself part, especially inprofessional settings, you know, the idea
(31:08):
what do we consider professionalor how am I going to come across?
And I guess, I don't know ifyou have any thoughts about how
professionalism plays into this fullidea of advocating for yourself.
Well, I mean, I think had, webeen in school and studying and
being a social worker I do thinkthat that makes a big difference.
I'm used to the advocating, right?
(31:30):
I'm used to advocating for animals.
I used to be advocating for peoplebecause there's an element of
that uh, being a social worker.
That's what we do.
To bring that advocacy aroundfor me um, for my benefit,
that's kind of a different story.
So I do think that being a socialworker has helped me to be more
(31:52):
open, be more honest with people,ask myself why I'm not sharing the
fact that I have a chronic illness.
Why do I feel sometimes the needto keep it to myself so, you know,
really just being honest with myselfand it's made all the difference.
I liked that you bring up the ideaof asking yourself why that is
(32:15):
something that I have I tried to haveconversations with folks about it.
It's the, why are we usingthe language that we're using?
Or why are we prohibitingeither ourselves or others with
disabilities from doing something?
Even just language, likesaying wheelchair bound.
Well, why are we saying bound?
What is the thought process behind that?
(32:36):
And I think it's important that we dothe self-reflection in that as well.
Oh, definitely.
I definitely think that.
And I think, you know, being asocial worker too, you know, the
more I can educate people about mydisability and be honest and how that
affects me or my life or what I do.
I have found that people havebeen nothing but supportive.
(32:57):
So I think you just have to be honestand look at your own stuff, like we all
have to and how can I make my job easier?
Is there anything I need thatwould make it more helpful?
And just to really advocate for myself.
And if I'm having a bad day,it's, I'm going to have bad days.
(33:18):
I have an auto-immune disease.
So I know those days, if there's a waythat I can either leave work early or
take care of myself or get some extrarest that I need, I feel like it's
going to make that much of a differencein how I do my job and what I'm doing.
And besides being a social worker, youknow, I would have this conversation
(33:40):
with somebody and go, well, whatdo you need to do differently?
Or how are you advocating for yourself?
I try to practice what I preach.
Yeah, that's that's always important.
*Indecernable* It's not,no, it really isn't.
It really isn't.
Um, Yeah, I think is one of the thingsthat I you know, sitting here listening
to you and I'm thinking about it,
(34:01):
Is the differences that people have inperceiving a visible disability, like
somebody using a wheelchair or somethingof that sort versus an invisible
disability and chronic illness, I knowfor myself, I've run into alot of it.
It's much more complicated to navigatethat and advocate for that because people
can't see it and it's really hard forpeople to understand a chronic illness.
(34:25):
Something that it's not going away, andit changes day to day, sometimes hour
by hour and minute by minute, right?
Yeah.
You know, uh, the invisible disabilitything, I'm, uh, I'm a real active in
that area and there's a really goodinvisible disability organization.
I know for me when I get reallypainful and I get unstable and I
(34:47):
need to use a cane or something likethat, it's really interesting because
part of me doesn't want to use it.
Part of me goes, oh, this would bemuch easier if people saw that I had a
disability, then treating me like I'mfine and all this and blah, blah, blah.
But I think that I'm the one who'sresponsible to give that information out.
(35:10):
How I'm feeling or what Ican and can't do once again.
So I really think it's a matter ofletting people know where I'm at,
because they can't be mind readers.
Yeah, and I appreciate that becauseI also use a cane sometimes and I
do find myself thinking in the samebreath, oh, this would make it easier
(35:33):
and that's what makes it harder.
But it, there is something to be saidfor it is your responsibility, but
it's also its yours to share and soit's this weird trying to protect,
but also advocate for yourself.
And I, I don't know about you, but like inairports and stuff I always have such this
weird conflict because I, I use my canein the airport and, you know, and when
(35:53):
we had Jax we trained in the airport andstuff, and it's nice to have a mobility
aid or my service dog there, whatever.
But at the same time you don't knowhow people are going to react or what
assumptions they're gonna make about you.
Well, and I also think too, it's veryinteresting and some of the research
I've looked at with service animalsis they do open up dialogue between
(36:17):
people that normally wouldn't be there.
So, you know, people tend when people seepeople with an animal disabled or not,
there is a tendency to talk about animals
together or talk about your dog oryour the other person's dog together.
So there's a social aspect of animalsthat are present when we're at the dog
(36:41):
park and kind of having that camaraderiewith other people who have animals.
And I think, I don't know if that's beenyour experience with being at the airport.
I don't know, do they tend to leaveyou alone or do they come up to
you and go, oh, who's this there?
Do they acknowledge the service staff?
I think there's a mix of people.
(37:02):
You know, it's just a hard topicbecause people are, are pet owners
or guardians of service dogs.
They, it does provide a social aspectand it does encourage you to get
out more and be more independent andengage in life outside of your home.
But there are a lot of people thatare very disrespectful or not quite
aware of how to approach it andthey'll just touch the service dog.
(37:23):
even though there's "do not touch"all over it or they'll distract it and
of course that lasts a safety issue.
But for myself personally, I didn'thave too many instances where that
happened, but I did have folks whowere polite and ask, what is his
breed or where did I get him from?
Um, or what are we trainingfor and stuff like that.
And that was nice because it feltlike that was an opening to talk about
(37:47):
things in an appropriate way thatwas actually beneficial to everybody.
And I loved, absolutely loved when parentswould, they wouldn't approach me the
family, but you would hear the parentstalking to the little kids about like,
that's a service dog, do not distractthem and like kinda teaching them.
It was really encouraging tosee like maybe we were going
in the right direction here.
(38:08):
Sure, I bet.
It's a very interesting experience,you know, I wish I had more to say
on it because we did have to pullhim from training but what you say
about dogs being a huge part oflike your family and with service
dogs, he was by my side all the time
and he continues to be, evenafter I pulled him from training.
And the bond, there is just theamazing and I love that you're trying
(38:31):
to facilitate that and it encouragethat kind of connection in people
are being able to hold on it that.
And I was just wanted to thank you somuch for coming on this podcast and
sharing your story and your insightand being vulnerable with people.
Um, is there a way that folks can reachout to you that have been listening?
Sure.
(38:51):
They can go to my website, it'sveterinarysocialworksolutions.com
and you can kind of look on thereand see what it is that I do.
You can contact me from thewebsite or you can reach me.
You can call me the office numberis area code 5 0 5- 3 9 3 -9 7 3 3.
(39:13):
Either way is fine.
This way you kind of get to lookand see more of, of what I do.
I'll be posting your information andour social media folks can go on there
and also on a transcript to be ableto find that information as well.
And I believe you were kind enoughto give our listeners a promo code
(39:33):
for a half an hour free half an hour
consult did that.
Promo code is G R E Y.2022.
When you go ahead and reach outto Emerson, go ahead and make
sure you include that promo codein and talk with her and learn
all the insights that you can.
I just want to say, thank you somuch for having me on it was great.
(39:54):
You know, I love the work you're doingas well, especially working with social
workers and disabilities and, youknow, bringing that to the forefront.
It's super courageous.
It's really needed and appreciated.
So thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.
Of course, of course.
And Thank You!
Definitely don't forget to use thepromo code and reach out to Emerson.
(40:16):
We'll have everythingand the social media.
Until next time!
Well, earthlings that'sit for today's broadcast.
As Carl Sagan once said"Somewhere, something incredible
is waiting to be known".
Thank you so much for tuning in thisweek and I hope to see you next week.
(40:37):
Be sure to check us out on social mediaat neobilities everywhere and use the
hashtag #TheDaniProject to continue theseimportant discussions around disability.
You can also join the crew onPatreon for more exclusive content.
Until next time.....PEACE OUT!.
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