April 16, 2025 • 27 mins
Lisa and Gretchen sit down with Dr. Janine Ellenberger—physician, mental health tech innovator, and autism mom—for a deeply personal and powerful conversation about suicide prevention, parenting through mental illness, and the life-changing impact of accessible therapy. Together, they unpack the hard stuff—grief, trauma, and hope—and explore how digital tools like Calmerry are reshaping mental wellness support.
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🎧 Episode Summary
In this raw and resonant episode, Dr. Janine Ellenberger opens up about her personal experiences as a parent of a child with autism and her professional mission to make mental health support more accessible. Lisa, also a suicide loss survivor, and Gretchen, a suicide attempt survivor, guide the conversation toward actionable insights on recognizing the signs of crisis, advocating for mental health in the workplace, and how technology like Calmerry helps meet people where they are—emotionally and digitally.
💡 Lessons Learned
- Asking deeper, open-ended questions can be the first step toward saving someone in crisis.
- Access to therapy—especially in real time—is critical and possible through platforms like Calmerry.
- Matching with the right therapist can take time, but the right fit is transformative.
- Mental health care is never one-size-fits-all—there are multiple modalities and pathways to healing.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at Calmerry.
(00:04):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be triggering for some
listeners.
So please take care of your well-being by pausing or skipping any sections that feel
uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support.
Hey friends, we are in the middle of what's already begun, begun as a beautiful conversation
(00:29):
with our very first guest of all time here on the Survivors.
We have got someone very special to join our conversation today.
This is Janine Ellenberger.
She is a seasoned physician and entrepreneur, a health executive with over 20 years of experience
in digital health, clinical practice and leadership.
(00:50):
She is also the co-founder of Behavidance.
It's a digital phenotyping company for mental health conditions.
She is the chief medical officer of Calmerry.
She plays a pivotal role in transforming mental health care through innovation, expanding
services through strategic partnerships and introducing additional revenue streams.
(01:11):
She's also responsible for world-class virtual therapy training programs and improving
therapist-client matching to ensure personalized care for every individual.
And this remarkable human being is here to join our conversation on the Survivors.
We have already talked at length about some of the issues that we're going to continue
(01:34):
on in this podcast to dig into.
Janine, it's a pleasure to have you.
Yes, absolutely.
Pudger, so honored.
Lisa and Gretchen, it's my honor to be here today with both of you and having learned your
journeys as to how you got to this podcast.
I am excited and really looking forward to our conversation today.
(01:54):
Thank you.
So I wanted to find out from you.
I know you're a parent, right?
And as a parent, how do you navigate mental health with your kin?
That's a very pertinent question to me, Gretchen.
(02:17):
I have three children.
My eldest has autism.
And he, as I was explaining earlier to you, as I was reading and preparing for this podcast
today, I started looking at the warning signs of suicide.
And it sort of hit me like a wet fish in the face.
You know, I'm my son right now.
(02:37):
He takes all of these boxes and it's frightening because this has been an ongoing conversation
with him.
And I've actually realized I've made some mistakes to be honest with you because when I was looking
at you, you know, how should you respond?
You should not say things like you're overreacting or just be positive or everything's going to
(02:58):
be okay because I'm inclined to always say, oh, everything's going to be okay.
Don't you worry.
We'll get through this.
Some of the things that I've started practicing the last sort of week or two is saying things
like you're not alone.
I'm here to listen.
I'm here to support.
Tell me.
Not dismissing.
It's hard.
It's so hard.
It's hard.
It's so hard.
It's so hard.
(03:19):
As a parent, I have two daughters.
We were chatting about this offline.
I have two daughters who have both had challenges with mental illness and some depression
and anxiety.
And we're not given all the answers as parents.
As soon as we're handed these little children, we're looked at as the ones who will have all
(03:43):
the answers and the ones who can guide and who can educate and who can support.
And we're learning from scratch as we go to.
I mean, I can look back at my own parenting journey and missing signs that my daughter had
anxiety thinking they were just kind of, you know, angsty teenage girl issues.
And it's hard.
(04:04):
We were not all knowing.
It's difficult.
So, like, my other question would be, is like, when you're talking to her, do you ask
more probing questions?
Like, questions that you hope, or you'll get an answer for?
I do.
I ask questions like, what do you think could be contributing to the way you feel right
(04:27):
now?
How do you think we can solve this?
But what's interesting when you get to a person, I don't know if this is your experience,
but when you get to that point, when I say, you know, how can we remedy this?
Let's put a plan together.
This is sense of absolute hopelessness and hopelessness.
(04:51):
I can't.
It doesn't.
So, nothing will make a difference.
That's the hard part, I think, really.
And then you combine this with, as we said, you know, that young brain, which is a lot
of impulsivity, and you just, you just hope that somehow you're going to always be there
(05:13):
so we can cross the hump and get to the other side where that attempt doesn't happen.
For me, you know, because I'm older, right?
Like when I did live suicide attempt, I was 59 and a half.
I'm a complete extrovert.
So when people saw me on the outside, I looked completely fine.
I was shown up to work every day.
(05:35):
I was, you know, helping my customers.
I was doing things at home.
But one of the things I found as I was writing my book is that people didn't do, so they
didn't ask me more probing questions, right?
They saw me for what I was at Shades Valley.
I wish now that they would have asked for probing questions, because they would all ask me,
(05:56):
like, so how you doing?
And I'm like, oh, I'm living the dream.
In the back of my head, I'm like, I'm not living the dream.
I am just done.
I'm like, half out.
And so, like, a more open-ended question of like, okay, something I would have had to
answer a little bit more truthfully.
And I think those are things where we need to incorporate with these conversations.
(06:17):
Because more, you know.
Yeah.
But you know what it is?
I think people are afraid.
People want desperately to be able to help and to support.
But I think people are terrified at their core.
What do I do when the person I'm asking actually comes back to me and says, I'm struggling.
(06:37):
I don't want to live.
I'm having a hard time.
Then it's like, well, where do you go?
Especially if you're not a trained clinician or a counselor or have the background to help.
So I mean, I think this is a perfect place to jump straight into the conversation of what
should friends or colleagues, if you're at work, be aware of when it comes to recognizing
(07:04):
the signs of distress, whether it's your child at home or it's a colleague at work, you
know, things that could ultimately lead to suicidal ideation.
You know, what should we all be looking for?
It agrees you are 100% and that needs to extend from family members to friends to the teachers
to your colleagues at work.
(07:25):
And I am, it's a QPR, you know, question, persuade, refer.
So ask the deep probing questions and then see if you can get a little bit more insight
to persuade them to go and see the help that is desperately needed.
I don't think someone can you can stop a suicide attempt, but that's almost just delaying
(07:48):
it as opposed to getting them to refer to a place where there is help and making that
help accessible.
And I think that's where the new digital age comes in because absolutely I know was going
to my son, we were younger, you go and have an incident and then you call the psychologists
(08:09):
of the psychiatrist and they'll see you in six weeks time and you still have to deal with
that for six weeks and you can call Crisis line.
I mean, you will get quicker access, but still you want to have access to somebody within
the next 24 hours.
You want to feel like there's a lifeline at the end and there's hope because what that
brings is hope and hope is so important.
(08:30):
So I think having access to digital tools, apps is so important now because it can make
a quick difference.
Yeah, absolutely.
100%.
So like the day after I called the days that I called by needing that the very next call was
(08:50):
to get a therapist and they were able to see me that the next day.
That's excellent.
But you know, at least when I were joking earlier is that what I met my therapist, like I had
to screen date my therapist, right?
Like the first one didn't work out so well.
By the time number three came around, we're good, been doing it for two years.
(09:12):
But you know, you're right, access is a big thing.
And now, you know, we're fortunate enough that we have those digital tools where we didn't
have that, you know, 20 years ago.
So only 10 years ago, yeah.
One of the reasons I sort of co-founded Behavidance and also Calmerry was precisely because
(09:32):
of that to get my son's diagnosis, I joke not when I say it took 14 psychologists and nine
psychiatrists.
And it was it was hit and was hit and was hit and was and for him to find the person
that he felt comfortable enough speaking to and then also just to get the right diagnosis.
Yeah, there's so many who would.
(09:55):
There's so many moving parts that people just don't realize it's not as simple as just
reaching out for help.
That's a big part of it.
That's certainly where it all starts and where it all has to start.
But then there's so many unfortunate barriers that are in place, especially nowadays, especially
you think about what was happening during the pandemic and how the entire world went
from being an in-person culture, a face-to-face culture to all of a sudden, you know, a Zoom
(10:19):
culture or a screen culture and you couldn't just, yeah, and you couldn't you couldn't find
a therapist who could take you to save your life.
And in some cases, in a lot of cases, they needed to save your life and you couldn't access
them.
It is just it is beautiful to see how technology can play in our favor now with platforms
(10:44):
like Calmerry and others who are offering kind of these Ola-Card services to people who
maybe either a don't have healthcare coverage that enables them to support their mental
health or they can't find someone, you know, maybe in their local area.
It just I think has broadened the scope of what people can use.
(11:05):
And the matching and matching you to a therapist that I think you hit so many important points
that you know, the insurance aspect of it.
So first you have to go and find somebody in your network, in your area that is able to
see you.
That is that that requires executive self-management and desire, which in a lot of time people in
(11:27):
the state like us do not have that.
They don't have that ability to go into the research and so you generally need somebody
to help you do that.
The fact that you can now log on to for example Colmory and immediately get matched with
the therapist and that therapist will text you back.
So you might not immediately get that video call but at least you have that connection.
(11:48):
And you can lead with I'm in a dark space right now and that therapist will come back and say
right, let's address this and let's put you on or let's go here or help guide you to be
that executive management for you, which is I think so deeply powerful in helping prevent
suicide.
I'm not scared.
(12:09):
I'm 100% like in the early days like I would text my therapist like 20 times a day because
I just had like this this overflow of emotions going on and like yes I could call 988 back
but I had a therapist right and I just have to plug the 988 because they were so compassionate.
(12:36):
I truly alive today because of that but I loved the digital tools that I have at my disposal
now that I didn't know about prior to that attempt right.
I have like calming applications I have you know journaling applications things that help
(12:56):
me take stuff that's in here and give it to somebody else to deal with like I'm still
dealing with it but it's not sitting up here in him.
Take a step to your mental well being with CalMary trusted online therapy platform that
supports you through life's challenges connect with licensed therapists and reap the
benefits of traditional therapy enhanced with digital tools whenever you need a visit
(13:19):
calmery.com to get started.
But it's a great thing.
You're purging it.
It's like purging a radiator.
You you know there's that that extreme build up and oftentimes people just don't know
what to do with that massive overflow of emotion and that's why things like mindfulness practices
and even you know five four three two one guiding you know re regulation exercises and journals
(13:46):
and journaling they're also helpful.
Journaling is so powerful as well because you are taking it out of your head and you're seeing
it there and I think journaling calmery has a journaling aspect to the app as well.
It's such something I actually learned through my daughter because I've journaled through
my life but she journals in a very dedicated fashion every single day.
(14:08):
She said to my husband the other day he was renting off about something like you know
dad you would really benefit from journaling now my husband's nearly 60 and he looked at
me and said what but because he wants to please his daughter he's now taken this to heart
and is got himself a journal I think it's never too late is what that is what that says
it's funny that you should say that because so I'm 56 years old my mother is 86 years old
(14:34):
yeah and and my mother so part of my story of being a suicide loss survivor one of the
losses that I've experienced was the loss of my father and my father passed away when
I was 10 years old the story that I was told was that he had thank you that that he died
of a heart attack.
My mother chose in that moment to keep the secret of his suicide from me because as a
(14:56):
10 year old child I was learning that my father had taken his life at 10 years old it would
have derailed me knowing that he was gone was bad enough she wanted to shield me from that
so she held that secret for 35 years my mother there was no therapist involved my mother
didn't share with a living soul that yeah out just out just one word for it and ultimately
(15:18):
it has of course come out about 10 years ago which has been a beautiful thing because
now we talk about it very freely and openly we've been in kind of an almost 11 year long
extended conversation about it which has been beautiful but the point I'm trying to make
is that I started seeing a therapist again after a 30 year break and it's been the most
(15:39):
wonderful experience that I the most wonderful gift I've given myself in a very very long
time and now my mother is actually encouraged to start potentially seeing my therapist she
has had the opportunity to meet my therapist and now she's considering for the very first
time in her life at the age of 86 being able to talk to someone who's like her own dedicated
(16:04):
mental health provider to offload all of those things that maybe she and I haven't gotten
around to talking about yet or aspects of it that maybe a therapist could flush out so
there's just never too late it's never too late and well done my dad is close to 80 and
he has cancer and he's getting to that point where and he's suffered from depression I
(16:25):
I come from a long family history of mental health conditions my dad was the person very very
young age and I wish as to he was always in hospital for depression he was always being treated
for the most amazing man I have to tell you delightful gentle character at the age of 70
80s now started finally to go for therapy and for so much happier just like that so but it's
(16:50):
taken him a very long time so that resistance is often there you know even though people
are in a dark space even though they are striking they still has they still the stigma attached
to therapy and going for therapy and getting yourself to therapy which I think having these
(17:11):
apps or digital tools or a tele therapy available through an app and help sort of alleviate that
a little bit because you can do it all in the privacy of your own home if you need to
you can and you you look no further than having an option to text I mean I'm on the Trevor
lifeline which is a traditional pick up the phone and call and speak to someone we also
(17:34):
have a texting platform much like the crisis text line that just gives people options
it's just a little bit of a buffer that someone who may not be feeling fully comfortable
sitting down person to person face to face yet and gives them another option and you know
I think sure with technology we all know that you know where there is so much good there
(17:56):
is also so much that's unfortunately negative about it but this what we're talking about
right now this is one of the absolute most positive benefits of of having the technology
that we have because it caters to everybody whenever their unique needs may be it allows someone
to find what works for them and you know to kind of cultivate an environment that makes
(18:23):
them want to reach out for help and want to share what's going on and get that support
very quickly.
I just think like in today's world that you know having that green is super helpful to
people right like everything is crazy right now.
So crazy.
(18:43):
When I mean statement it's just crazy but having that at their disposal whether they're
at work or at home you're out of bus you know you're walking you're jogging having that
available to you is so amazing and I just I love the fact that you know we have programs
(19:05):
like call ring we have you know mindful of that's apps and things like that and that one there's
not one kind of therapy that fixes everybody right there's so many different therapies out
there I mean I've dabbled on a few like I do tapping therapy too when I'm super stressed
out of our anxious I've done some energy therapy just know that there's different kinds
(19:31):
of therapies because you may not be you may not feel comfortable doing person to person
again it was hard for me to yeah it's hard for a lot of people but we have options so many
options out there and I my hope is is that we're able to save people's lives because people
(19:51):
you know I just want them to know that you're not when you're wanted and you're needed in
this world and no matter what demons are what the demons in your head are saying they're
not true and that's something I had to want for my health it seemed a lot two years to
and a half years and a therapy now and I still know it's therapy like twice a month so important
(20:16):
because one can slip back into those I tell my son he's got ants in his head automated
negative thoughts and these ants just keep and you know what ants are like they are hyper
energetic they go go go and they expand their population so he's got all these ants is going
round and round and round and round in his head and sometimes you have to squash those
ants it's the only way to get your your your your space and your your your brain back you
(20:41):
have to squash the ants and it's so difficult because they're automated those negative thoughts
feed on each other and exactly what you said great and there are different therapies of
work for different people you know some people are receptive to CBT some need DBT some
need to start with some hypnosis before or start with a tapping just to regulate the
parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems before you then move on into and finding
(21:05):
that pathway and finding that companion therapist you can help guide you through it is
invaluable and so important so you have that initial crisis management and then you have
the path going forward where you both yours it all supports system around you and you
have different things for different times I have a little bubble I love it and I don't
(21:28):
want to get rid of my bubble it's you know it's funny it's funny but sad at the same
time so in the first time in 45 years I actually don't have often church because it's expensive
right you know you plan your own health insurance is expensive so having resources as
(21:50):
able like your phone or things like that you know a lot of programs have sliding scale
and being able to see that but there's a ton of free stuff out there too and taking the
time to talk to your friends right like I do a Sunday check in with all my friends whether
they're introverts or extra roots or whatever I check in with my voice like people that
(22:12):
their connection helps and you know what's again asking the questions right I ask my question
they know they have to respond to that's an art that's an art and I love the Sunday checking
because you always have to put that in your calendar it's something is written down it's
an appointment you can't miss it and it's and you probably find that you the Sunday
(22:33):
checking serves you just as much as it serves then because you're giving and when you give
your dopamine and serotonin I elevate it and you feel better and then so important to the
healing process and you know when I think of like the workplaces right now because I guess
I have the world's a scary place right now like what do workplaces do help assist their
(22:58):
employees you know it's I think a lot of work spaces are looking at these EAP programs
employee assistant programs particularly for the mental health space and offering them for free
or to join for example a company like Calmering give them two to three sessions over a course of a
year that they would have access to when they are feeling that they needed and I think a lot of
(23:22):
companies are doing that now because they're realizing that if their employees mental wellness is
in a good space the company's productivity is so much better so for them it serves the bottom line
but actually it does serve the whole employee morale and well-being and I think it's incredibly
important for for employees to have access to that in the workplace because work is stressful
(23:46):
and it's a doggy dog world out there right now so people feel vulnerable at work they don't know if
they have security in their job so if you have any issues that just compounds it you know if you
look at the causes of of why do people commit suicide you've got the biological or medical causes
you've got the underlying conditions like bipolar depression PTSD schizophrenia whatever and then
(24:07):
you have the environment and social and work is a huge we spend so much time if not more I think
the way Americans work we've probably spend two-thirds of our time working and yeah and so I think
employee benefits is or assistance programs is is incredibly important and then I think more than
that as well some education from HR to everybody and you can be somebody that assists with that
(24:35):
QPR question persuade refer if your friend looks if you know to somebody withdrawing if you know
to somebody and great I hear you about being in an extrovert because I um I know people and
actually my son is an extrovert when he wants to be like he's just great he's a life and soul of
the party but when they withdraw that association and detachment being aware being alert and then
(24:59):
being interested in caring enough to go and ask those propian questions and they're persuading
them to go and seek help and a knowing way to refer them 988 as you said or to the EAP program is
and if we all just had this knowledge the world would be so much better oh so much better so I
can have a question about the EAP program because I've heard this a couple of times I should think
(25:22):
of something on our heads is that employees are afraid to contact the EAPs because they don't want
their employers to know they don't know they're not supposed to know okay all right it is confidential
and so they will buy a book of vouchers for example just to put it in a very simple understandable
(25:45):
way and the company will get a hundred vouchers and that will give a free therapy session to each
person and basically they'll just hand out the vouchers to whoever needs it but it will come
through the fact that you can go and actually pull a voucher yourself without anybody knowing
there was you they pulled it so it's a box of vouchers and you just go and pull one out it's not
(26:06):
quite as simple as that but it is meant to be as private and that's great to know yes so nobody knows
good that's good to know but actually even let's let's take it one step back and I know I'm not allowed
to curse on the show we encourage it I'm the only one as long as it's not Gretchen I let anyone
(26:30):
else curse why the hell you know there she is they care if she have if they have they should be
there to support it should not affect that employees employees status at all we all go through
should sometimes that's right to be supported and we're entitled to that support
1000 percent so this is actually gonna be a two-part episode so we we have more to the story
(26:57):
coming up next week thanks for joining us on the survivors remember no matter how tough things
feel you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are you're not alone in this journey
there's a community here and every step forward counts we're so grateful you took the time to listen
and we hope they'll take one day at a time just know there's always more right ahead
(27:19):
thanks for being here friends just remember help is out there in so many different places
so if you or someone you know is struggling please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me
will be there to help you can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental
health resources tools and content at the help hub dot-co just remember that health is always just a
(27:42):
call or a click away we'll catch you next week in the meantime keep surviving
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at Calmerry.
(00:04):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be triggering for some
listeners.
So please take care of your well-being by pausing or skipping any sections that feel
uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support.
Hey friends, we are in the middle of what's already begun, begun as a beautiful conversation
(00:29):
with our very first guest of all time here on the Survivors.
We have got someone very special to join our conversation today.
This is Janine Ellenberger.
She is a seasoned physician and entrepreneur, a health executive with over 20 years of experience
in digital health, clinical practice and leadership.
(00:50):
She is also the co-founder of Behavidance.
It's a digital phenotyping company for mental health conditions.
She is the chief medical officer of Calmerry.
She plays a pivotal role in transforming mental health care through innovation, expanding
services through strategic partnerships and introducing additional revenue streams.
(01:11):
She's also responsible for world-class virtual therapy training programs and improving
therapist-client matching to ensure personalized care for every individual.
And this remarkable human being is here to join our conversation on the Survivors.
We have already talked at length about some of the issues that we're going to continue
(01:34):
on in this podcast to dig into.
Janine, it's a pleasure to have you.
Yes, absolutely.
Pudger, so honored.
Lisa and Gretchen, it's my honor to be here today with both of you and having learned your
journeys as to how you got to this podcast.
I am excited and really looking forward to our conversation today.
(01:54):
Thank you.
So I wanted to find out from you.
I know you're a parent, right?
And as a parent, how do you navigate mental health with your kin?
That's a very pertinent question to me, Gretchen.
(02:17):
I have three children.
My eldest has autism.
And he, as I was explaining earlier to you, as I was reading and preparing for this podcast
today, I started looking at the warning signs of suicide.
And it sort of hit me like a wet fish in the face.
You know, I'm my son right now.
(02:37):
He takes all of these boxes and it's frightening because this has been an ongoing conversation
with him.
And I've actually realized I've made some mistakes to be honest with you because when I was looking
at you, you know, how should you respond?
You should not say things like you're overreacting or just be positive or everything's going to
(02:58):
be okay because I'm inclined to always say, oh, everything's going to be okay.
Don't you worry.
We'll get through this.
Some of the things that I've started practicing the last sort of week or two is saying things
like you're not alone.
I'm here to listen.
I'm here to support.
Tell me.
Not dismissing.
It's hard.
It's so hard.
It's hard.
It's so hard.
It's so hard.
(03:19):
As a parent, I have two daughters.
We were chatting about this offline.
I have two daughters who have both had challenges with mental illness and some depression
and anxiety.
And we're not given all the answers as parents.
As soon as we're handed these little children, we're looked at as the ones who will have all
(03:43):
the answers and the ones who can guide and who can educate and who can support.
And we're learning from scratch as we go to.
I mean, I can look back at my own parenting journey and missing signs that my daughter had
anxiety thinking they were just kind of, you know, angsty teenage girl issues.
And it's hard.
(04:04):
We were not all knowing.
It's difficult.
So, like, my other question would be, is like, when you're talking to her, do you ask
more probing questions?
Like, questions that you hope, or you'll get an answer for?
I do.
I ask questions like, what do you think could be contributing to the way you feel right
(04:27):
now?
How do you think we can solve this?
But what's interesting when you get to a person, I don't know if this is your experience,
but when you get to that point, when I say, you know, how can we remedy this?
Let's put a plan together.
This is sense of absolute hopelessness and hopelessness.
(04:51):
I can't.
It doesn't.
So, nothing will make a difference.
That's the hard part, I think, really.
And then you combine this with, as we said, you know, that young brain, which is a lot
of impulsivity, and you just, you just hope that somehow you're going to always be there
(05:13):
so we can cross the hump and get to the other side where that attempt doesn't happen.
For me, you know, because I'm older, right?
Like when I did live suicide attempt, I was 59 and a half.
I'm a complete extrovert.
So when people saw me on the outside, I looked completely fine.
I was shown up to work every day.
(05:35):
I was, you know, helping my customers.
I was doing things at home.
But one of the things I found as I was writing my book is that people didn't do, so they
didn't ask me more probing questions, right?
They saw me for what I was at Shades Valley.
I wish now that they would have asked for probing questions, because they would all ask me,
(05:56):
like, so how you doing?
And I'm like, oh, I'm living the dream.
In the back of my head, I'm like, I'm not living the dream.
I am just done.
I'm like, half out.
And so, like, a more open-ended question of like, okay, something I would have had to
answer a little bit more truthfully.
And I think those are things where we need to incorporate with these conversations.
(06:17):
Because more, you know.
Yeah.
But you know what it is?
I think people are afraid.
People want desperately to be able to help and to support.
But I think people are terrified at their core.
What do I do when the person I'm asking actually comes back to me and says, I'm struggling.
(06:37):
I don't want to live.
I'm having a hard time.
Then it's like, well, where do you go?
Especially if you're not a trained clinician or a counselor or have the background to help.
So I mean, I think this is a perfect place to jump straight into the conversation of what
should friends or colleagues, if you're at work, be aware of when it comes to recognizing
(07:04):
the signs of distress, whether it's your child at home or it's a colleague at work, you
know, things that could ultimately lead to suicidal ideation.
You know, what should we all be looking for?
It agrees you are 100% and that needs to extend from family members to friends to the teachers
to your colleagues at work.
(07:25):
And I am, it's a QPR, you know, question, persuade, refer.
So ask the deep probing questions and then see if you can get a little bit more insight
to persuade them to go and see the help that is desperately needed.
I don't think someone can you can stop a suicide attempt, but that's almost just delaying
(07:48):
it as opposed to getting them to refer to a place where there is help and making that
help accessible.
And I think that's where the new digital age comes in because absolutely I know was going
to my son, we were younger, you go and have an incident and then you call the psychologists
(08:09):
of the psychiatrist and they'll see you in six weeks time and you still have to deal with
that for six weeks and you can call Crisis line.
I mean, you will get quicker access, but still you want to have access to somebody within
the next 24 hours.
You want to feel like there's a lifeline at the end and there's hope because what that
brings is hope and hope is so important.
(08:30):
So I think having access to digital tools, apps is so important now because it can make
a quick difference.
Yeah, absolutely.
100%.
So like the day after I called the days that I called by needing that the very next call was
(08:50):
to get a therapist and they were able to see me that the next day.
That's excellent.
But you know, at least when I were joking earlier is that what I met my therapist, like I had
to screen date my therapist, right?
Like the first one didn't work out so well.
By the time number three came around, we're good, been doing it for two years.
(09:12):
But you know, you're right, access is a big thing.
And now, you know, we're fortunate enough that we have those digital tools where we didn't
have that, you know, 20 years ago.
So only 10 years ago, yeah.
One of the reasons I sort of co-founded Behavidance and also Calmerry was precisely because
(09:32):
of that to get my son's diagnosis, I joke not when I say it took 14 psychologists and nine
psychiatrists.
And it was it was hit and was hit and was hit and was and for him to find the person
that he felt comfortable enough speaking to and then also just to get the right diagnosis.
Yeah, there's so many who would.
(09:55):
There's so many moving parts that people just don't realize it's not as simple as just
reaching out for help.
That's a big part of it.
That's certainly where it all starts and where it all has to start.
But then there's so many unfortunate barriers that are in place, especially nowadays, especially
you think about what was happening during the pandemic and how the entire world went
from being an in-person culture, a face-to-face culture to all of a sudden, you know, a Zoom
(10:19):
culture or a screen culture and you couldn't just, yeah, and you couldn't you couldn't find
a therapist who could take you to save your life.
And in some cases, in a lot of cases, they needed to save your life and you couldn't access
them.
It is just it is beautiful to see how technology can play in our favor now with platforms
(10:44):
like Calmerry and others who are offering kind of these Ola-Card services to people who
maybe either a don't have healthcare coverage that enables them to support their mental
health or they can't find someone, you know, maybe in their local area.
It just I think has broadened the scope of what people can use.
(11:05):
And the matching and matching you to a therapist that I think you hit so many important points
that you know, the insurance aspect of it.
So first you have to go and find somebody in your network, in your area that is able to
see you.
That is that that requires executive self-management and desire, which in a lot of time people in
(11:27):
the state like us do not have that.
They don't have that ability to go into the research and so you generally need somebody
to help you do that.
The fact that you can now log on to for example Colmory and immediately get matched with
the therapist and that therapist will text you back.
So you might not immediately get that video call but at least you have that connection.
(11:48):
And you can lead with I'm in a dark space right now and that therapist will come back and say
right, let's address this and let's put you on or let's go here or help guide you to be
that executive management for you, which is I think so deeply powerful in helping prevent
suicide.
I'm not scared.
(12:09):
I'm 100% like in the early days like I would text my therapist like 20 times a day because
I just had like this this overflow of emotions going on and like yes I could call 988 back
but I had a therapist right and I just have to plug the 988 because they were so compassionate.
(12:36):
I truly alive today because of that but I loved the digital tools that I have at my disposal
now that I didn't know about prior to that attempt right.
I have like calming applications I have you know journaling applications things that help
(12:56):
me take stuff that's in here and give it to somebody else to deal with like I'm still
dealing with it but it's not sitting up here in him.
Take a step to your mental well being with CalMary trusted online therapy platform that
supports you through life's challenges connect with licensed therapists and reap the
benefits of traditional therapy enhanced with digital tools whenever you need a visit
(13:19):
calmery.com to get started.
But it's a great thing.
You're purging it.
It's like purging a radiator.
You you know there's that that extreme build up and oftentimes people just don't know
what to do with that massive overflow of emotion and that's why things like mindfulness practices
and even you know five four three two one guiding you know re regulation exercises and journals
(13:46):
and journaling they're also helpful.
Journaling is so powerful as well because you are taking it out of your head and you're seeing
it there and I think journaling calmery has a journaling aspect to the app as well.
It's such something I actually learned through my daughter because I've journaled through
my life but she journals in a very dedicated fashion every single day.
(14:08):
She said to my husband the other day he was renting off about something like you know
dad you would really benefit from journaling now my husband's nearly 60 and he looked at
me and said what but because he wants to please his daughter he's now taken this to heart
and is got himself a journal I think it's never too late is what that is what that says
it's funny that you should say that because so I'm 56 years old my mother is 86 years old
(14:34):
yeah and and my mother so part of my story of being a suicide loss survivor one of the
losses that I've experienced was the loss of my father and my father passed away when
I was 10 years old the story that I was told was that he had thank you that that he died
of a heart attack.
My mother chose in that moment to keep the secret of his suicide from me because as a
(14:56):
10 year old child I was learning that my father had taken his life at 10 years old it would
have derailed me knowing that he was gone was bad enough she wanted to shield me from that
so she held that secret for 35 years my mother there was no therapist involved my mother
didn't share with a living soul that yeah out just out just one word for it and ultimately
(15:18):
it has of course come out about 10 years ago which has been a beautiful thing because
now we talk about it very freely and openly we've been in kind of an almost 11 year long
extended conversation about it which has been beautiful but the point I'm trying to make
is that I started seeing a therapist again after a 30 year break and it's been the most
(15:39):
wonderful experience that I the most wonderful gift I've given myself in a very very long
time and now my mother is actually encouraged to start potentially seeing my therapist she
has had the opportunity to meet my therapist and now she's considering for the very first
time in her life at the age of 86 being able to talk to someone who's like her own dedicated
(16:04):
mental health provider to offload all of those things that maybe she and I haven't gotten
around to talking about yet or aspects of it that maybe a therapist could flush out so
there's just never too late it's never too late and well done my dad is close to 80 and
he has cancer and he's getting to that point where and he's suffered from depression I
(16:25):
I come from a long family history of mental health conditions my dad was the person very very
young age and I wish as to he was always in hospital for depression he was always being treated
for the most amazing man I have to tell you delightful gentle character at the age of 70
80s now started finally to go for therapy and for so much happier just like that so but it's
(16:50):
taken him a very long time so that resistance is often there you know even though people
are in a dark space even though they are striking they still has they still the stigma attached
to therapy and going for therapy and getting yourself to therapy which I think having these
(17:11):
apps or digital tools or a tele therapy available through an app and help sort of alleviate that
a little bit because you can do it all in the privacy of your own home if you need to
you can and you you look no further than having an option to text I mean I'm on the Trevor
lifeline which is a traditional pick up the phone and call and speak to someone we also
(17:34):
have a texting platform much like the crisis text line that just gives people options
it's just a little bit of a buffer that someone who may not be feeling fully comfortable
sitting down person to person face to face yet and gives them another option and you know
I think sure with technology we all know that you know where there is so much good there
(17:56):
is also so much that's unfortunately negative about it but this what we're talking about
right now this is one of the absolute most positive benefits of of having the technology
that we have because it caters to everybody whenever their unique needs may be it allows someone
to find what works for them and you know to kind of cultivate an environment that makes
(18:23):
them want to reach out for help and want to share what's going on and get that support
very quickly.
I just think like in today's world that you know having that green is super helpful to
people right like everything is crazy right now.
So crazy.
(18:43):
When I mean statement it's just crazy but having that at their disposal whether they're
at work or at home you're out of bus you know you're walking you're jogging having that
available to you is so amazing and I just I love the fact that you know we have programs
(19:05):
like call ring we have you know mindful of that's apps and things like that and that one there's
not one kind of therapy that fixes everybody right there's so many different therapies out
there I mean I've dabbled on a few like I do tapping therapy too when I'm super stressed
out of our anxious I've done some energy therapy just know that there's different kinds
(19:31):
of therapies because you may not be you may not feel comfortable doing person to person
again it was hard for me to yeah it's hard for a lot of people but we have options so many
options out there and I my hope is is that we're able to save people's lives because people
(19:51):
you know I just want them to know that you're not when you're wanted and you're needed in
this world and no matter what demons are what the demons in your head are saying they're
not true and that's something I had to want for my health it seemed a lot two years to
and a half years and a therapy now and I still know it's therapy like twice a month so important
(20:16):
because one can slip back into those I tell my son he's got ants in his head automated
negative thoughts and these ants just keep and you know what ants are like they are hyper
energetic they go go go and they expand their population so he's got all these ants is going
round and round and round and round in his head and sometimes you have to squash those
ants it's the only way to get your your your your space and your your your brain back you
(20:41):
have to squash the ants and it's so difficult because they're automated those negative thoughts
feed on each other and exactly what you said great and there are different therapies of
work for different people you know some people are receptive to CBT some need DBT some
need to start with some hypnosis before or start with a tapping just to regulate the
parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems before you then move on into and finding
(21:05):
that pathway and finding that companion therapist you can help guide you through it is
invaluable and so important so you have that initial crisis management and then you have
the path going forward where you both yours it all supports system around you and you
have different things for different times I have a little bubble I love it and I don't
(21:28):
want to get rid of my bubble it's you know it's funny it's funny but sad at the same
time so in the first time in 45 years I actually don't have often church because it's expensive
right you know you plan your own health insurance is expensive so having resources as
(21:50):
able like your phone or things like that you know a lot of programs have sliding scale
and being able to see that but there's a ton of free stuff out there too and taking the
time to talk to your friends right like I do a Sunday check in with all my friends whether
they're introverts or extra roots or whatever I check in with my voice like people that
(22:12):
their connection helps and you know what's again asking the questions right I ask my question
they know they have to respond to that's an art that's an art and I love the Sunday checking
because you always have to put that in your calendar it's something is written down it's
an appointment you can't miss it and it's and you probably find that you the Sunday
(22:33):
checking serves you just as much as it serves then because you're giving and when you give
your dopamine and serotonin I elevate it and you feel better and then so important to the
healing process and you know when I think of like the workplaces right now because I guess
I have the world's a scary place right now like what do workplaces do help assist their
(22:58):
employees you know it's I think a lot of work spaces are looking at these EAP programs
employee assistant programs particularly for the mental health space and offering them for free
or to join for example a company like Calmering give them two to three sessions over a course of a
year that they would have access to when they are feeling that they needed and I think a lot of
(23:22):
companies are doing that now because they're realizing that if their employees mental wellness is
in a good space the company's productivity is so much better so for them it serves the bottom line
but actually it does serve the whole employee morale and well-being and I think it's incredibly
important for for employees to have access to that in the workplace because work is stressful
(23:46):
and it's a doggy dog world out there right now so people feel vulnerable at work they don't know if
they have security in their job so if you have any issues that just compounds it you know if you
look at the causes of of why do people commit suicide you've got the biological or medical causes
you've got the underlying conditions like bipolar depression PTSD schizophrenia whatever and then
(24:07):
you have the environment and social and work is a huge we spend so much time if not more I think
the way Americans work we've probably spend two-thirds of our time working and yeah and so I think
employee benefits is or assistance programs is is incredibly important and then I think more than
that as well some education from HR to everybody and you can be somebody that assists with that
(24:35):
QPR question persuade refer if your friend looks if you know to somebody withdrawing if you know
to somebody and great I hear you about being in an extrovert because I um I know people and
actually my son is an extrovert when he wants to be like he's just great he's a life and soul of
the party but when they withdraw that association and detachment being aware being alert and then
(24:59):
being interested in caring enough to go and ask those propian questions and they're persuading
them to go and seek help and a knowing way to refer them 988 as you said or to the EAP program is
and if we all just had this knowledge the world would be so much better oh so much better so I
can have a question about the EAP program because I've heard this a couple of times I should think
(25:22):
of something on our heads is that employees are afraid to contact the EAPs because they don't want
their employers to know they don't know they're not supposed to know okay all right it is confidential
and so they will buy a book of vouchers for example just to put it in a very simple understandable
(25:45):
way and the company will get a hundred vouchers and that will give a free therapy session to each
person and basically they'll just hand out the vouchers to whoever needs it but it will come
through the fact that you can go and actually pull a voucher yourself without anybody knowing
there was you they pulled it so it's a box of vouchers and you just go and pull one out it's not
(26:06):
quite as simple as that but it is meant to be as private and that's great to know yes so nobody knows
good that's good to know but actually even let's let's take it one step back and I know I'm not allowed
to curse on the show we encourage it I'm the only one as long as it's not Gretchen I let anyone
(26:30):
else curse why the hell you know there she is they care if she have if they have they should be
there to support it should not affect that employees employees status at all we all go through
should sometimes that's right to be supported and we're entitled to that support
1000 percent so this is actually gonna be a two-part episode so we we have more to the story
(26:57):
coming up next week thanks for joining us on the survivors remember no matter how tough things
feel you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are you're not alone in this journey
there's a community here and every step forward counts we're so grateful you took the time to listen
and we hope they'll take one day at a time just know there's always more right ahead
(27:19):
thanks for being here friends just remember help is out there in so many different places
so if you or someone you know is struggling please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me
will be there to help you can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental
health resources tools and content at the help hub dot-co just remember that health is always just a
(27:42):
call or a click away we'll catch you next week in the meantime keep surviving
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