May 28, 2025 • 26 mins
In this heartfelt Mental Health Awareness Month finale, Lisa and Gretchen discuss the powerful but often overlooked necessity of self-care, boundary-setting, and finding joy. From hilarious pet videos to meditation and morning laughter, they explore the diverse paths to healing and wholeness.
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Episode Summary
Lisa and Gretchen reveal what self-care really means—far beyond bubble baths and buzzwords. They share raw, relatable stories about burnout, emotional boundaries, journaling, the power of saying “no,” and how seemingly small rituals can anchor us in peace and strength. Together, they create a roadmap for intentional living that starts with honoring your needs.
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Lessons Learned
- Boundaries are life-saving: Creating and maintaining boundaries isn’t selfish—it’s essential.
- Daily self-care must be non-negotiable: Whether it’s laughter, meditation, or stepping outside, daily rituals help us reset and recharge.
- Permission to pause: You can step away, say no, and take a “me” day—no guilt attached.
- Joy matters: Seek it, schedule it, and protect it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Help Hub.
(00:05):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be triggering for some
listeners.
So please take care of your mental well-being by pausing or skipping any sections that
feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 9-8-8 for support.
So this is a conversation that I really have, I think I'm a low-key excited to have this
(00:25):
conversation in support and recognition of mental health awareness month because now
we're in that last week of it.
And one of the things that we haven't talked a lot about and it's so, so important
is self-care.
And I know that you and I have a lot that we talk about offline together as far as our
self-care is concerned.
So it just feels like it makes sense to bring it here and have that conversation here because
(00:48):
there are a lot of things that you do that I don't do and that now I've started to do.
And vice versa, I think.
And I think it's just so important, the more that we can share with each other and with
our community, the things that we're doing, the ways that we're prioritizing our self-care.
I think it just creates a much better foundation for all of us to be healthy.
(01:11):
For me, self-care is huge and one of the reasons I ended up where I did two years ago is because
I didn't take care of myself.
You know, everybody thinks that self-care and self-love are buzzwords, but they're not.
You really need to take care of yourself and take care of your mental health because if
you're not good, you can't take care of anybody else.
I mean, you might think that you can, but you're like faking it until you make it.
(01:35):
You're right.
I love that you said it that way because it's so true that we do think that we're doing
the things to benefit ourselves when we're really kind of not in a lot of ways.
I always go back to the same default example that I think of as the whole oxygen mask in
the airplane.
I always default to that same one because it's so true that you can't, especially as a
(01:58):
mom, you can't possibly take care of anybody else in your life if you're not okay yourself.
If you're not physically okay, if you're not emotionally okay, if you're not mentally
okay, and you know, there are so many different moving parts to our overall health and
wellness and we've always been taught taught in school taught in mainstream culture that
(02:22):
you've got to exercise and you've got to eat right and you've got to be fit and you've
got to move your body and all those things are 100% true.
But people don't focus enough on the under the hood parts that are just as important
that I feel like society now is just starting to realize like we should really be prioritizing
(02:43):
the mental piece of our selves in the same way that we prioritize all the other parts,
the physical wellness because if like if you're looking at a brand new car and you open
up a hood and the engine is a piece of shit and it's covered in rust or whatever happens
to engines when they go bad, then that car is not worth anything.
(03:04):
That car is not going to run.
I think I just came up with a whole brand new analogy to replace the oxygen mask analogy.
That feels good.
Okay.
Okay.
So, I think it's just, and for me, my biggest thing for self-care was setting boundaries.
I tell in you.
Life changing, life changing.
I know you and I have had this conversation so many times and I've touched on it in my
(03:27):
own story when we each shared our stories earlier in the season and I talked about the
biggest shift that I made was as a result of establishing and not only putting up boundaries,
creating boundaries.
That's only a piece of it.
It's the maintaining the boundaries, like hold the line.
That's what you need to do and that's what I needed to do and I was not doing it and I
(03:51):
was so depleted.
I reached a point in my life and I know you and I've talked a lot about this.
I kind of, I think I gave you the backstory about the last several years and places and
spaces that I felt were really kind of sapping me of not really my identity but my mental
health in a lot of ways because I would show up to these places that were designed to give
(04:14):
me infusions of the things I needed in my life, whether you fit in a certain community
or whatever, that mental boost and I didn't have boundaries so I was getting constantly depleted
by what everybody else needed from me and I didn't know how to say no.
Which in a lot of ways has served me well in terms of career wise, I'm always up for
(04:36):
anything, I'm always up to collaborate, I'm always up to learn new things but my across is
over into that place of like now I'm saying yes to everybody else and I'm absolutely saying
no, ignoring myself every time.
That's where I was.
Nothing that I've ever realized was as life changing as realizing what that was doing
to me.
(04:56):
Yeah, for me, like I said, it was life changing.
I found the power to say no to things that weren't going to benefit me.
I was able to say no to drama because as an empath, that's really hard, but it's also
life changing.
And then there were other things I did for self care.
Like I made a choice every day to find something that would bring me joy, whether that was
(05:19):
looking at some really cool pictures on my phone or stepping outside, spending time with
my wife, writing, doing something that brought me joy because you know what, your heart
me calling you, I need to make my heart smile, right?
Because when your heart smiling, it just makes you feel better for that moment of time.
Right.
(05:39):
And it's not, it's like anything.
It's not the cure all for everything, but it's foundational.
And self care practices, when you integrate them into your life in the ways that we should,
they become, they become daily habits, they become in my case, I call them my non-negotiables
now.
I've never had that language before because I never prioritized it before.
(06:01):
I had this sense, and I don't know if anybody listening or if you, since I'm talking to you,
we are having a conversation.
Are you sure?
I am sure.
Am I in the room?
You're in the room, sort of virtually.
But I feel like one of the issues that I had that really kept me from creating boundaries
and doing the things that were important to me was that I think I was really afraid that
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it would be a bad reflection on me as a human, since my nature is to be there for people
and to help people and to support people.
Like if I didn't show up, or I said, I'm sorry, I can't make it, I can't, I can't help,
or I don't have the bandwidth, or I'm, I'm just not available, I felt incredible guilt.
Even thinking those thoughts, which is why I never actually acted on them.
(06:44):
I never actually said, I can't show up, or I can't do this thing because I think I just
felt like somehow it was my responsibility.
I have a way overdeveloped sense of responsibility.
I always have, and I know now, as a result of therapy, thanks to my amazing therapist who I love
in a door for helping me to figure out where these parts of my personality come from.
(07:09):
And as you know, it's a little kid who's an only child who lost a parent when I was 10
years old.
You just want to make sure that you're doing everything in your power for the rest of your
life to be the goodest little girl that you can be to make sure that nobody leaves.
And that was like at the root of it.
And it actually makes me want to cry right now because that was who I was under the surface
(07:30):
for most of my life, who I've been.
And I think that other people probably feel that way.
And what I've learned is that just because I say, God, I'd really love to help, but I can't
get there, can't do this thing.
It doesn't mean I'm not going to show up for you in other ways.
It doesn't mean I'm not still as committed as a friend or as a support system.
It just means that I just need to prioritize either myself or something else.
(07:54):
And it's as simple as that, you know?
100%.
It's hard.
And I think if you start to practice earlier in life, it gets easier to do that.
But I didn't start that practice until I was 59 and a half.
And man, I wish I would have learned about boundaries and the power of saying no so much
earlier in my life because I would have made, I think I would have made different decisions
(08:17):
or maybe better decisions.
But, you know, I think also part of self-care is giving your permission to laugh, right?
Joy, laughter, smiling, giving yourself permission to be like, hey, you know what?
I'm going to take a meday instead of a U day or an Us day.
I'm going to take a meday.
I actually had to do that this week.
(08:38):
I had to give myself a meday probably because I had food poisoning.
And, you know, I needed some time to reflect on what the fuck I ate.
You know what?
I took, and I felt better.
Like I slept for like 20 hours.
It was perfect.
You had D&D on.
I couldn't even reach you.
It was...
I was dead to the world.
(09:00):
You were gone.
My phone could have blown up and I wouldn't have known any different.
But you needed it.
You needed it.
And we don't often pay enough attention to ourselves and what we really need.
And I say this as not only just a human being like anybody out here who's listening to this
conversation, but I'm also a mom.
I have two daughters who are grown.
(09:22):
One of them lives in Japan.
So this is not a child that I can run over and help when she needs my help.
You know, it either has to happen over a FaceTime call or a phone call, but I do have another
daughter who lives four miles away.
So it doesn't matter how old they are.
They're still your kids.
They're still calling.
(09:42):
They still need you.
You're still expected to show up.
And that's what I would always want to do.
But it's hard.
It's really hard because you wear all these different hats.
We all have these different hats.
We are wipes and we're friends and we're co-workers and we're daughters and sons and parents.
(10:03):
And it's a lot.
And there's a lot that is expected of us every day.
And we don't often factor our own selves into the equation.
And I know that I happen.
And I have the same regret in some way that you do about not figuring all this stuff out
sooner, but it's a cultural thing too.
Like our culture is so hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle.
(10:25):
Go, go, go, go overachiever.
And you get caught up in that.
And to consider yourself among all the lists of things that we have to consider every day.
Because it's easy to ignore what we need ourselves because we're going to tamp that down and not
let it out.
We're just going to accept the facts in a lot of cases that we can't do the things that
(10:46):
we need to do for ourselves.
But we would never say no to somebody else, which I just think is so ridiculous.
I look at it now.
Don't you think it's so stupid?
It's so stupid.
I know.
But what's funny is I started making a task list every day.
So every other item is a self-care item.
Okay, did I drink water?
Did I get up and walk around my office?
(11:08):
Have I gone to the bathroom?
If it's nice and I have you gone outside today, that's what I do for myself.
So like a one item is something that like I need to get done for my business.
And then the next item is what am I going to do for me?
Or what can I do for somebody else?
It's going to help them.
But it's not going to suck the life out of me.
Those are things that I've had to reteach myself or relearn because it was never taught
(11:32):
to me.
And then I went back to that conversation of how mental health.
We didn't learn about any of this in school.
You know, we kind of like just with her life.
We're like, hey, we're good.
We're good.
We're going to shove that shit down until there's little place elsewhere to go.
But then I wake up on Christmas day and I'm like, I'm done.
I'm totally checked out.
But then I start going to therapy.
And it wasn't until my third therapist is be dating my therapist until I got to my
(11:56):
third therapist that have finally made sense.
Set the boundaries.
Put yourself first.
Do things that bring you joy?
Learn how to ground yourself.
And still be a good human.
And like I can do all that.
I mean, some days I'm a little rougher on the edges.
You know that all too well.
But you're just so soft and perfect.
I am not.
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Ask my wife.
I am not soft and perfect.
I'm four or eleven.
I'm that little garden gnome that kind of just pops out at me on the end.
Hey, I'm here.
But I want to make sure that people understand.
It's really important to take care of yourself.
On a daily basis, lift up the hood, take a look on me inside.
Are you okay?
Because if you're not okay, you really can't help anybody else.
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And it's you're okay.
The other thing I do too is I do a lot of journaling because I really want to take the shit
that's in my head and put it someplace else.
And that has been a huge help.
So like for me, my self-care is journaling boundaries, laughter, and finding my joy.
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And I love that.
And it's so beautiful that it can look so different for all of us.
(14:11):
What each of us needs is so completely subjective, and it's so personal, and it's something we
can change when we need to change and adapt to whatever place we're in in life, maybe
we're in a period of our life where our job is incredibly overwhelming, or it's sucking
time from us and affecting us emotionally.
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And so we have to make different adjustments to compensate for that, or maybe there's family
stuff, or maybe somebody sick, and we've got to pivot in other ways.
And you know, that's the beauty of self-care.
Take out the word, self.
It's yourself.
You get to decide.
You get to be the one to pick and choose what we do.
And I think there's a lot of, for me, there's excitement there.
(14:54):
There's real excitement when I really think about that, because we get to decide what those
things are that light us up, and we get to do them.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a little bit selfish, because at times
it requires a little teeny bit of selfishness to say, "No, I'm actually going to prioritize
what I need right now, because if I don't, I might not be okay."
(15:18):
And when you think of it that way, it becomes, like, that's your priority.
Because if the alternative is, "I'm not going to be okay, I'm not going to be able to function,
I'm not going to show up for my family, I'm not going to be able to do my job," then it
becomes so important that we listen to ourselves, and we have that internal dialogue, and that
you say to yourself, like, "Okay, like, that was a really stressful call I just had, and
(15:41):
I'm feeling a little fried.
I need some nature therapy, because I know for you one of your self-care pieces of your
puzzle is nature."
And I love that, because you'll dip outside and take a drive or take a walk, and that's
what works for you.
And I love that we each have those things that we can pick and choose from our little toolbox
(16:01):
of things.
I think the other thing that people can put into their toolbox, and it's hard at first,
is stepping away from technology, whether it's for an hour, two hours a day, putting the
phone down, putting the computer down, having real communication, real connection with things
that are not electronic.
So having a conversation with a friend, communicating with nature, get outside and roll in the
(16:26):
grass, like, look at all the beauties that surround you, and get away from what the negative
things are in our social media feeds today, or in our news feeds.
For me, how do I find my joy right now?
I turn off all the news feeds on my phone, and I don't talk about politics until after 8
o'clock at night.
(16:46):
Amen.
Actually, you shouldn't even do that because it's going to fire you up and you won't be able
to sleep.
No, I take a couple of gummies to go to sleep now, whether I'm fired up or not, once those
kicks in, we're asleep.
Yeah, I'm really glad that you brought that up because I think that our collective self-care
as a country, as a population is really being compromised by what's going on in the world
(17:11):
around us.
I mean, people are so divided and so hostile in so many cases.
And I know for myself, I have that same feeling about the news media right now, and I know
Dave does, too.
So I think about this time last year, the whole world was glued to a TV and everything was
so necessary.
(17:33):
It felt so necessary to be part of that global conversation and what's happening in the world
and what direction it will go in, and it was pretty tenuous.
And then all of a sudden, we've got the outcome of our political future for the next bit of
time.
And it's been hard.
It's been really hard.
And for me, I do the same thing you do.
(17:53):
I get my news now from one-dimensional sources.
I have an email that comes in.
I listen to something called the Schimm.
It's written by all millennials.
It's the funniest news bits.
They kind of just extract all the highlights from all the national and international news,
but they do it.
It's so funny, but it's all accurate.
It's kind of like John Stewart, in a way.
(18:14):
And it's quick and easy.
I can read it in five minutes.
I know what's happening in the world.
I don't need to turn on the TV set.
It's perfect.
For me, I listen to Stephen Corbera because he makes me laugh and, you know, then, but I know
those are things in the world we need to know about like doom scrolling is not going to make
it better.
Having your constant news feed is not going to make it better.
But if you are not taking care of yourself and you are doom scrolling and you're on your
(18:39):
computer or on your phone all day long and you're not spending some time outside and
you're not taking a moment to breathe, you are not taking care of yourself because all
of that messes with your cortisol and your serotonin and your endorphins.
And I can honestly tell you like the one practice I still do today is the first thing I do in
(19:01):
the morning is I find a funny video and I laugh for at least 10 minutes because it's that
10 minutes of laughter that kind of gets me going because now my cortisol is raised, my
serotonin is raised, my endorphins are raised and I'm like, yeah, now I can conquer the day.
But I just need that first 10 minutes of laughter and I'm good to go.
(19:21):
I love that.
You laugh at me.
If I ever told you what I watch when I'm scrolling around when I just need to do something
mindless, sometimes I won't have the mental capacity to pick up a book and read like baby
I've just been working all day and I'm at my computer and I'm just fried and I can't pick
up a book even though I want to.
(19:42):
I just watch my funny little cat dog videos and my family makes so much fun of me.
It's not fair because they're so funny and they're so cute and all the little videos
and I'm constantly sending them to my kids and they just ignore them most of the time.
But for me, that's what brings me just some mindless entertainment.
I'm not looking at what other people in the world are doing necessarily and not comparing
(20:08):
myself to other people and I don't go down that road.
I go down the whole cute puppy and kitty video road.
That's my safe place.
I'm not far behind you.
I'm baby goat and raccoons.
I love the baby penguin, so you sent me a baby penguin meeting the other day that was
very adorable.
It was adorable.
Yeah, like I, because you know it, they're not humans and they're just cute by nature and
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they do funny little things that make me laugh and then I just feel better and I'm the
same way as you.
I must have sent that little meme to like 40 people and they're like, oh, this is so cute
and I'm like, see, it made you smile.
And that's all you need.
That's really all you need.
You know, you talk about what you do first thing in the morning and I love that you do that
(20:53):
because it just gets your head straight.
It gets your head where you want your head to be.
And in my case, my own little routine is it's the same every day.
It's like groundhog day every day.
I get up and I six, I'm a before Dave.
So I sneak in the bathroom and I get changed.
I always lay my clothes out the night before I get changed.
I sneak out of the bedroom and I go right to my space where I meditate every morning.
(21:18):
And I light some incense and I light some candles and I sometimes do a guided meditation or
I sometimes do just sounds of rain and birds and whatever I'm in the mood for that day.
And I just take those four minutes, ten minutes, twelve minutes.
If it's a day, I can devote a lot of time.
And I just empty my head completely and totally empty my head because you know me.
(21:43):
You know that I'm up like 65 times at night, most of the night.
So I've constantly got all the things or the loops are playing in my head.
I can't stop them.
That's just how my brain works.
And in the morning, the way I stop it is just to meditate and just empty it completely
out and set that intention for the day so that whatever fills my head from that point,
(22:07):
like I can handle that.
And for me, you know, never it's it's warming up.
I'm going to start going back to the gym and that's how I empty my head out because when
I'm at the gym, I think of two things.
Then don't fall off the treadmill, too.
Don't drop a weight on your foot.
And so that's how I get my brain to stop.
And you know what, I'm kind of getting that shape at the same time because when it was hard
(22:28):
and I've gained a few pounds and it makes me feel better.
Yeah, I mean, that's the key to all of it.
It's what makes you function best, what makes you feel best, what makes you show up in
the world as your best.
And I mean, this is this is where we close out mental health awareness month.
And I love that we're closing it out this way because it starts with taking care of ourselves.
(22:48):
And like you said, you know, you're 61 years old and I'm 56 years old and both of us have
had this epiphany with things like boundaries lay in life.
It's never too late to just have a mind shift.
It's never too late to say, okay, I've neglected this part of myself for a really long time.
And I own that.
And I see that I am actually in control of the choices that I make.
(23:11):
I get to decide where I spend my time.
I get to decide how I infuse myself and what I infuse myself with.
And there's a lot of joy that comes from that.
There's a lot of excitement and power that comes from recognizing like, okay, I get to prioritize
myself.
I'm allowed to do that.
(23:32):
I'm encouraged to do that.
So if you're listening right now, if you're out there in the ether and you're listening,
it's not too late to just try other things to explore, to try on a bunch of different self-care
hats and see what works for you.
Because truly the bottom line to all of this is that we can't always give in to all the
(23:55):
narratives that are in our heads about what we're doing in life and how we're doing it and
these negative self-talk.
And we have the ability anytime we want to disrupt that system and so much of what causes our
bad mental health is when we can't break out of the thought loops that we're in and when
(24:15):
we can't break the patterns that we've created for ourselves.
And in a lot of cases, those patterns can actually be self-care patterns.
So we are here to say that you can do anything you goddamn well want to do for yourself anytime
you want to.
Look at you're using emojis.
I did.
The first time you said you were going to do that, that was such a perfect moment too.
(24:36):
I was waiting for the perfect moment but that was so so beautiful.
I encourage everybody that's listening today to make yourself a self-care list.
Everybody's just different.
But find the things that bring you joy, find the things that bring you peace and find the
things that help clear your mind and make sure you practice it daily because if you're
(24:58):
not taking care of you, you cannot take care of anybody else.
You can pretend, but you need to come first.
Absolutely.
Amen.
Amen to that.
So, even though we may be closing out mental health awareness month right now, let's not
stop the conversation.
Obviously you and I will never stop the conversation, but make it a priority.
If you're listening to this and there's something that you know that you need to do for
(25:22):
yourself, I want to do for yourself, take this as your cue and go do it.
Amen.
All right, so I love you and I'll talk to you.
I'll talk to you again.
I'll talk to you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Thanks for joining us on the survivors.
Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are enough and the world needs you just
(25:42):
the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey.
There's a community here and every step forward counts.
We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll take one day at a time.
Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here friends.
Just remember, help is out there in so many different places.
So if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor
(26:05):
like me will be there to help.
You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental health resources, tools,
and content at thehelphub.co.
Just remember that help is always just a call or a click away.
We'll catch you next week.
In the meantime, keep surviving.
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The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Help Hub.
(00:05):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be triggering for some
listeners.
So please take care of your mental well-being by pausing or skipping any sections that
feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 9-8-8 for support.
So this is a conversation that I really have, I think I'm a low-key excited to have this
(00:25):
conversation in support and recognition of mental health awareness month because now
we're in that last week of it.
And one of the things that we haven't talked a lot about and it's so, so important
is self-care.
And I know that you and I have a lot that we talk about offline together as far as our
self-care is concerned.
So it just feels like it makes sense to bring it here and have that conversation here because
(00:48):
there are a lot of things that you do that I don't do and that now I've started to do.
And vice versa, I think.
And I think it's just so important, the more that we can share with each other and with
our community, the things that we're doing, the ways that we're prioritizing our self-care.
I think it just creates a much better foundation for all of us to be healthy.
(01:11):
For me, self-care is huge and one of the reasons I ended up where I did two years ago is because
I didn't take care of myself.
You know, everybody thinks that self-care and self-love are buzzwords, but they're not.
You really need to take care of yourself and take care of your mental health because if
you're not good, you can't take care of anybody else.
I mean, you might think that you can, but you're like faking it until you make it.
(01:35):
You're right.
I love that you said it that way because it's so true that we do think that we're doing
the things to benefit ourselves when we're really kind of not in a lot of ways.
I always go back to the same default example that I think of as the whole oxygen mask in
the airplane.
I always default to that same one because it's so true that you can't, especially as a
(01:58):
mom, you can't possibly take care of anybody else in your life if you're not okay yourself.
If you're not physically okay, if you're not emotionally okay, if you're not mentally
okay, and you know, there are so many different moving parts to our overall health and
wellness and we've always been taught taught in school taught in mainstream culture that
(02:22):
you've got to exercise and you've got to eat right and you've got to be fit and you've
got to move your body and all those things are 100% true.
But people don't focus enough on the under the hood parts that are just as important
that I feel like society now is just starting to realize like we should really be prioritizing
(02:43):
the mental piece of our selves in the same way that we prioritize all the other parts,
the physical wellness because if like if you're looking at a brand new car and you open
up a hood and the engine is a piece of shit and it's covered in rust or whatever happens
to engines when they go bad, then that car is not worth anything.
(03:04):
That car is not going to run.
I think I just came up with a whole brand new analogy to replace the oxygen mask analogy.
That feels good.
Okay.
Okay.
So, I think it's just, and for me, my biggest thing for self-care was setting boundaries.
I tell in you.
Life changing, life changing.
I know you and I have had this conversation so many times and I've touched on it in my
(03:27):
own story when we each shared our stories earlier in the season and I talked about the
biggest shift that I made was as a result of establishing and not only putting up boundaries,
creating boundaries.
That's only a piece of it.
It's the maintaining the boundaries, like hold the line.
That's what you need to do and that's what I needed to do and I was not doing it and I
(03:51):
was so depleted.
I reached a point in my life and I know you and I've talked a lot about this.
I kind of, I think I gave you the backstory about the last several years and places and
spaces that I felt were really kind of sapping me of not really my identity but my mental
health in a lot of ways because I would show up to these places that were designed to give
(04:14):
me infusions of the things I needed in my life, whether you fit in a certain community
or whatever, that mental boost and I didn't have boundaries so I was getting constantly depleted
by what everybody else needed from me and I didn't know how to say no.
Which in a lot of ways has served me well in terms of career wise, I'm always up for
(04:36):
anything, I'm always up to collaborate, I'm always up to learn new things but my across is
over into that place of like now I'm saying yes to everybody else and I'm absolutely saying
no, ignoring myself every time.
That's where I was.
Nothing that I've ever realized was as life changing as realizing what that was doing
to me.
(04:56):
Yeah, for me, like I said, it was life changing.
I found the power to say no to things that weren't going to benefit me.
I was able to say no to drama because as an empath, that's really hard, but it's also
life changing.
And then there were other things I did for self care.
Like I made a choice every day to find something that would bring me joy, whether that was
(05:19):
looking at some really cool pictures on my phone or stepping outside, spending time with
my wife, writing, doing something that brought me joy because you know what, your heart
me calling you, I need to make my heart smile, right?
Because when your heart smiling, it just makes you feel better for that moment of time.
Right.
(05:39):
And it's not, it's like anything.
It's not the cure all for everything, but it's foundational.
And self care practices, when you integrate them into your life in the ways that we should,
they become, they become daily habits, they become in my case, I call them my non-negotiables
now.
I've never had that language before because I never prioritized it before.
(06:01):
I had this sense, and I don't know if anybody listening or if you, since I'm talking to you,
we are having a conversation.
Are you sure?
I am sure.
Am I in the room?
You're in the room, sort of virtually.
But I feel like one of the issues that I had that really kept me from creating boundaries
and doing the things that were important to me was that I think I was really afraid that
(06:24):
it would be a bad reflection on me as a human, since my nature is to be there for people
and to help people and to support people.
Like if I didn't show up, or I said, I'm sorry, I can't make it, I can't, I can't help,
or I don't have the bandwidth, or I'm, I'm just not available, I felt incredible guilt.
Even thinking those thoughts, which is why I never actually acted on them.
(06:44):
I never actually said, I can't show up, or I can't do this thing because I think I just
felt like somehow it was my responsibility.
I have a way overdeveloped sense of responsibility.
I always have, and I know now, as a result of therapy, thanks to my amazing therapist who I love
in a door for helping me to figure out where these parts of my personality come from.
(07:09):
And as you know, it's a little kid who's an only child who lost a parent when I was 10
years old.
You just want to make sure that you're doing everything in your power for the rest of your
life to be the goodest little girl that you can be to make sure that nobody leaves.
And that was like at the root of it.
And it actually makes me want to cry right now because that was who I was under the surface
(07:30):
for most of my life, who I've been.
And I think that other people probably feel that way.
And what I've learned is that just because I say, God, I'd really love to help, but I can't
get there, can't do this thing.
It doesn't mean I'm not going to show up for you in other ways.
It doesn't mean I'm not still as committed as a friend or as a support system.
It just means that I just need to prioritize either myself or something else.
(07:54):
And it's as simple as that, you know?
100%.
It's hard.
And I think if you start to practice earlier in life, it gets easier to do that.
But I didn't start that practice until I was 59 and a half.
And man, I wish I would have learned about boundaries and the power of saying no so much
earlier in my life because I would have made, I think I would have made different decisions
(08:17):
or maybe better decisions.
But, you know, I think also part of self-care is giving your permission to laugh, right?
Joy, laughter, smiling, giving yourself permission to be like, hey, you know what?
I'm going to take a meday instead of a U day or an Us day.
I'm going to take a meday.
I actually had to do that this week.
(08:38):
I had to give myself a meday probably because I had food poisoning.
And, you know, I needed some time to reflect on what the fuck I ate.
You know what?
I took, and I felt better.
Like I slept for like 20 hours.
It was perfect.
You had D&D on.
I couldn't even reach you.
It was...
I was dead to the world.
(09:00):
You were gone.
My phone could have blown up and I wouldn't have known any different.
But you needed it.
You needed it.
And we don't often pay enough attention to ourselves and what we really need.
And I say this as not only just a human being like anybody out here who's listening to this
conversation, but I'm also a mom.
I have two daughters who are grown.
(09:22):
One of them lives in Japan.
So this is not a child that I can run over and help when she needs my help.
You know, it either has to happen over a FaceTime call or a phone call, but I do have another
daughter who lives four miles away.
So it doesn't matter how old they are.
They're still your kids.
They're still calling.
(09:42):
They still need you.
You're still expected to show up.
And that's what I would always want to do.
But it's hard.
It's really hard because you wear all these different hats.
We all have these different hats.
We are wipes and we're friends and we're co-workers and we're daughters and sons and parents.
(10:03):
And it's a lot.
And there's a lot that is expected of us every day.
And we don't often factor our own selves into the equation.
And I know that I happen.
And I have the same regret in some way that you do about not figuring all this stuff out
sooner, but it's a cultural thing too.
Like our culture is so hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle.
(10:25):
Go, go, go, go overachiever.
And you get caught up in that.
And to consider yourself among all the lists of things that we have to consider every day.
Because it's easy to ignore what we need ourselves because we're going to tamp that down and not
let it out.
We're just going to accept the facts in a lot of cases that we can't do the things that
(10:46):
we need to do for ourselves.
But we would never say no to somebody else, which I just think is so ridiculous.
I look at it now.
Don't you think it's so stupid?
It's so stupid.
I know.
But what's funny is I started making a task list every day.
So every other item is a self-care item.
Okay, did I drink water?
Did I get up and walk around my office?
(11:08):
Have I gone to the bathroom?
If it's nice and I have you gone outside today, that's what I do for myself.
So like a one item is something that like I need to get done for my business.
And then the next item is what am I going to do for me?
Or what can I do for somebody else?
It's going to help them.
But it's not going to suck the life out of me.
Those are things that I've had to reteach myself or relearn because it was never taught
(11:32):
to me.
And then I went back to that conversation of how mental health.
We didn't learn about any of this in school.
You know, we kind of like just with her life.
We're like, hey, we're good.
We're good.
We're going to shove that shit down until there's little place elsewhere to go.
But then I wake up on Christmas day and I'm like, I'm done.
I'm totally checked out.
But then I start going to therapy.
And it wasn't until my third therapist is be dating my therapist until I got to my
(11:56):
third therapist that have finally made sense.
Set the boundaries.
Put yourself first.
Do things that bring you joy?
Learn how to ground yourself.
And still be a good human.
And like I can do all that.
I mean, some days I'm a little rougher on the edges.
You know that all too well.
But you're just so soft and perfect.
I am not.
(12:17):
Ask my wife.
I am not soft and perfect.
I'm four or eleven.
I'm that little garden gnome that kind of just pops out at me on the end.
Hey, I'm here.
But I want to make sure that people understand.
It's really important to take care of yourself.
On a daily basis, lift up the hood, take a look on me inside.
Are you okay?
Because if you're not okay, you really can't help anybody else.
(12:39):
And it's you're okay.
The other thing I do too is I do a lot of journaling because I really want to take the shit
that's in my head and put it someplace else.
And that has been a huge help.
So like for me, my self-care is journaling boundaries, laughter, and finding my joy.
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(13:03):
not.
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And I love that.
And it's so beautiful that it can look so different for all of us.
(14:11):
What each of us needs is so completely subjective, and it's so personal, and it's something we
can change when we need to change and adapt to whatever place we're in in life, maybe
we're in a period of our life where our job is incredibly overwhelming, or it's sucking
time from us and affecting us emotionally.
(14:33):
And so we have to make different adjustments to compensate for that, or maybe there's family
stuff, or maybe somebody sick, and we've got to pivot in other ways.
And you know, that's the beauty of self-care.
Take out the word, self.
It's yourself.
You get to decide.
You get to be the one to pick and choose what we do.
And I think there's a lot of, for me, there's excitement there.
(14:54):
There's real excitement when I really think about that, because we get to decide what those
things are that light us up, and we get to do them.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a little bit selfish, because at times
it requires a little teeny bit of selfishness to say, "No, I'm actually going to prioritize
what I need right now, because if I don't, I might not be okay."
(15:18):
And when you think of it that way, it becomes, like, that's your priority.
Because if the alternative is, "I'm not going to be okay, I'm not going to be able to function,
I'm not going to show up for my family, I'm not going to be able to do my job," then it
becomes so important that we listen to ourselves, and we have that internal dialogue, and that
you say to yourself, like, "Okay, like, that was a really stressful call I just had, and
(15:41):
I'm feeling a little fried.
I need some nature therapy, because I know for you one of your self-care pieces of your
puzzle is nature."
And I love that, because you'll dip outside and take a drive or take a walk, and that's
what works for you.
And I love that we each have those things that we can pick and choose from our little toolbox
(16:01):
of things.
I think the other thing that people can put into their toolbox, and it's hard at first,
is stepping away from technology, whether it's for an hour, two hours a day, putting the
phone down, putting the computer down, having real communication, real connection with things
that are not electronic.
So having a conversation with a friend, communicating with nature, get outside and roll in the
(16:26):
grass, like, look at all the beauties that surround you, and get away from what the negative
things are in our social media feeds today, or in our news feeds.
For me, how do I find my joy right now?
I turn off all the news feeds on my phone, and I don't talk about politics until after 8
o'clock at night.
(16:46):
Amen.
Actually, you shouldn't even do that because it's going to fire you up and you won't be able
to sleep.
No, I take a couple of gummies to go to sleep now, whether I'm fired up or not, once those
kicks in, we're asleep.
Yeah, I'm really glad that you brought that up because I think that our collective self-care
as a country, as a population is really being compromised by what's going on in the world
(17:11):
around us.
I mean, people are so divided and so hostile in so many cases.
And I know for myself, I have that same feeling about the news media right now, and I know
Dave does, too.
So I think about this time last year, the whole world was glued to a TV and everything was
so necessary.
(17:33):
It felt so necessary to be part of that global conversation and what's happening in the world
and what direction it will go in, and it was pretty tenuous.
And then all of a sudden, we've got the outcome of our political future for the next bit of
time.
And it's been hard.
It's been really hard.
And for me, I do the same thing you do.
(17:53):
I get my news now from one-dimensional sources.
I have an email that comes in.
I listen to something called the Schimm.
It's written by all millennials.
It's the funniest news bits.
They kind of just extract all the highlights from all the national and international news,
but they do it.
It's so funny, but it's all accurate.
It's kind of like John Stewart, in a way.
(18:14):
And it's quick and easy.
I can read it in five minutes.
I know what's happening in the world.
I don't need to turn on the TV set.
It's perfect.
For me, I listen to Stephen Corbera because he makes me laugh and, you know, then, but I know
those are things in the world we need to know about like doom scrolling is not going to make
it better.
Having your constant news feed is not going to make it better.
But if you are not taking care of yourself and you are doom scrolling and you're on your
(18:39):
computer or on your phone all day long and you're not spending some time outside and
you're not taking a moment to breathe, you are not taking care of yourself because all
of that messes with your cortisol and your serotonin and your endorphins.
And I can honestly tell you like the one practice I still do today is the first thing I do in
(19:01):
the morning is I find a funny video and I laugh for at least 10 minutes because it's that
10 minutes of laughter that kind of gets me going because now my cortisol is raised, my
serotonin is raised, my endorphins are raised and I'm like, yeah, now I can conquer the day.
But I just need that first 10 minutes of laughter and I'm good to go.
(19:21):
I love that.
You laugh at me.
If I ever told you what I watch when I'm scrolling around when I just need to do something
mindless, sometimes I won't have the mental capacity to pick up a book and read like baby
I've just been working all day and I'm at my computer and I'm just fried and I can't pick
up a book even though I want to.
(19:42):
I just watch my funny little cat dog videos and my family makes so much fun of me.
It's not fair because they're so funny and they're so cute and all the little videos
and I'm constantly sending them to my kids and they just ignore them most of the time.
But for me, that's what brings me just some mindless entertainment.
I'm not looking at what other people in the world are doing necessarily and not comparing
(20:08):
myself to other people and I don't go down that road.
I go down the whole cute puppy and kitty video road.
That's my safe place.
I'm not far behind you.
I'm baby goat and raccoons.
I love the baby penguin, so you sent me a baby penguin meeting the other day that was
very adorable.
It was adorable.
Yeah, like I, because you know it, they're not humans and they're just cute by nature and
(20:33):
they do funny little things that make me laugh and then I just feel better and I'm the
same way as you.
I must have sent that little meme to like 40 people and they're like, oh, this is so cute
and I'm like, see, it made you smile.
And that's all you need.
That's really all you need.
You know, you talk about what you do first thing in the morning and I love that you do that
(20:53):
because it just gets your head straight.
It gets your head where you want your head to be.
And in my case, my own little routine is it's the same every day.
It's like groundhog day every day.
I get up and I six, I'm a before Dave.
So I sneak in the bathroom and I get changed.
I always lay my clothes out the night before I get changed.
I sneak out of the bedroom and I go right to my space where I meditate every morning.
(21:18):
And I light some incense and I light some candles and I sometimes do a guided meditation or
I sometimes do just sounds of rain and birds and whatever I'm in the mood for that day.
And I just take those four minutes, ten minutes, twelve minutes.
If it's a day, I can devote a lot of time.
And I just empty my head completely and totally empty my head because you know me.
(21:43):
You know that I'm up like 65 times at night, most of the night.
So I've constantly got all the things or the loops are playing in my head.
I can't stop them.
That's just how my brain works.
And in the morning, the way I stop it is just to meditate and just empty it completely
out and set that intention for the day so that whatever fills my head from that point,
(22:07):
like I can handle that.
And for me, you know, never it's it's warming up.
I'm going to start going back to the gym and that's how I empty my head out because when
I'm at the gym, I think of two things.
Then don't fall off the treadmill, too.
Don't drop a weight on your foot.
And so that's how I get my brain to stop.
And you know what, I'm kind of getting that shape at the same time because when it was hard
(22:28):
and I've gained a few pounds and it makes me feel better.
Yeah, I mean, that's the key to all of it.
It's what makes you function best, what makes you feel best, what makes you show up in
the world as your best.
And I mean, this is this is where we close out mental health awareness month.
And I love that we're closing it out this way because it starts with taking care of ourselves.
(22:48):
And like you said, you know, you're 61 years old and I'm 56 years old and both of us have
had this epiphany with things like boundaries lay in life.
It's never too late to just have a mind shift.
It's never too late to say, okay, I've neglected this part of myself for a really long time.
And I own that.
And I see that I am actually in control of the choices that I make.
(23:11):
I get to decide where I spend my time.
I get to decide how I infuse myself and what I infuse myself with.
And there's a lot of joy that comes from that.
There's a lot of excitement and power that comes from recognizing like, okay, I get to prioritize
myself.
I'm allowed to do that.
(23:32):
I'm encouraged to do that.
So if you're listening right now, if you're out there in the ether and you're listening,
it's not too late to just try other things to explore, to try on a bunch of different self-care
hats and see what works for you.
Because truly the bottom line to all of this is that we can't always give in to all the
(23:55):
narratives that are in our heads about what we're doing in life and how we're doing it and
these negative self-talk.
And we have the ability anytime we want to disrupt that system and so much of what causes our
bad mental health is when we can't break out of the thought loops that we're in and when
(24:15):
we can't break the patterns that we've created for ourselves.
And in a lot of cases, those patterns can actually be self-care patterns.
So we are here to say that you can do anything you goddamn well want to do for yourself anytime
you want to.
Look at you're using emojis.
I did.
The first time you said you were going to do that, that was such a perfect moment too.
(24:36):
I was waiting for the perfect moment but that was so so beautiful.
I encourage everybody that's listening today to make yourself a self-care list.
Everybody's just different.
But find the things that bring you joy, find the things that bring you peace and find the
things that help clear your mind and make sure you practice it daily because if you're
(24:58):
not taking care of you, you cannot take care of anybody else.
You can pretend, but you need to come first.
Absolutely.
Amen.
Amen to that.
So, even though we may be closing out mental health awareness month right now, let's not
stop the conversation.
Obviously you and I will never stop the conversation, but make it a priority.
If you're listening to this and there's something that you know that you need to do for
(25:22):
yourself, I want to do for yourself, take this as your cue and go do it.
Amen.
All right, so I love you and I'll talk to you.
I'll talk to you again.
I'll talk to you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Thanks for joining us on the survivors.
Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are enough and the world needs you just
(25:42):
the way you are.
You're not alone in this journey.
There's a community here and every step forward counts.
We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll take one day at a time.
Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here friends.
Just remember, help is out there in so many different places.
So if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor
(26:05):
like me will be there to help.
You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental health resources, tools,
and content at thehelphub.co.
Just remember that help is always just a call or a click away.
We'll catch you next week.
In the meantime, keep surviving.
[Music]
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