May 21, 2025 • 27 mins
In this heart-opening episode, Lisa and Gretchen dive deep into the transformative power of therapy. From speed-dating therapists to redefining grief, they share personal stories about discovering the kinds of support that helped them reclaim their mental well-being.
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🔎 Episode Summary
Lisa and Gretchen reflect on their personal journeys with therapy—how it started, how it evolved, and the lessons they've learned along the way. This candid conversation touches on childhood trauma, therapy mismatches, grief, different healing modalities (from talk to art and nature therapy), and the realization that therapy isn’t just help—it’s a gift.
💡 Lessons Learned
- Therapy can be the greatest act of self-care—even if it takes a few tries to find the right fit.
- Different types of therapy (EFT, art, nature, talk) serve different needs—explore and customize your healing.
- Trauma often hides in plain sight; therapy can unlock realizations that reframe your entire experience.
- Mental health support isn’t one-size-fits-all, and there’s no shame in seeking help through non-traditional routes.
- 00:00 – The Real Talk Warning
- 01:00 – Mental Health Awareness Month Reflections
- 03:20 – Rediscovering Therapy After 30 Years
- 06:00 – Speed Dating Therapists & Finding the Right Fit
- 08:40 – Talk, Art, Nature & Energy Therapies
- 13:00 – When Friends & Family Aren’t Enough
- 17:00 – Realizing You’re a Trauma Survivor
- 20:30 – Childhood Grief & Unseen Pain
- 24:00 – Therapy Tools, Boundaries & Healing Modalities
- 26:00 – Final Reflections & Encouragement
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Hellpub.
(00:05):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and maybe triggering for some
listeners.
So please take care of your mental well-being by pausing or skipping any sections that
feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 9-8-8 for support.
I hate it when you try and make me laugh right as you're hitting the record button.
(00:26):
I couldn't help it.
I was about to burp.
You need to learn how to control yourself.
It's the whole issue.
No, don't do that.
Nobody wants to hear that.
I can't hear.
I can't hear.
I didn't.
All right.
Let's just consider this a blooper role and we'll just keep going.
We'll just keep going.
Oh, if you, I'm not, I'm ignoring what you're doing because you're trying to throw me off.
I can see it.
(00:46):
I can feel it.
All right.
So here's, here's the topic today because you and I talked about this offline and we wanted
to continue the mental health awareness month conversation because we're still here in
the month of May and we're still talking about amplifying resources and what can people
find out in the world that can be a source of support and a source of guidance when they're
(01:12):
not okay.
And what you and I discovered each individually on our own is the value and importance of therapy.
Amen.
And that like you and I were like, okay, well, so what should we talk about in this episode
for mental health awareness month and then both of us are kind of like, well, that's obvious.
We haven't talked at all yet about the value of therapy and let me tell you, I'm going
(01:39):
to really going to do my very, very best not to shout out my therapist by name because
I don't want to horribly embarrass her, but because she's a very unique name.
Let's just say that she has become such a vital part of my life.
She has become such an important part of my mental health and wellness journey.
(01:59):
She has guided me, helped me, supported me in ways that I didn't even realize I needed.
And as a result, we just, she and I just had this conversation.
I think it was last week or the week before where I said, you know, I really feel more centered.
I feel more grounded.
I feel more authentically myself than I think I may have ever felt in my life.
(02:20):
And I've been seeing her now for three years and every week that I get to sit with her,
whatever it is that we're talking about is a gift.
It's, I think it's probably, for me, it's probably the greatest act of self care or one of
the greatest acts of self care that I've ever gifted to myself.
And I say it that way very intentionally because there are so many different things that
(02:40):
we can do for ourselves in regard to self care.
And I'm not sure that people often put therapy on that list, like people think, you know,
like in a massage or like at my nails done or go to yoga class or buy myself a treat.
We don't think of it in terms of therapy as the gift, but I don't know about you, but
that's how I feel about it.
(03:01):
And I am so grateful to myself that I went seeking it out at what 53 years old after
30 years of being away from therapy.
Great thing I ever did.
100% like the night, like a couple hours after I called my eight, that's when I had gone ahead
(03:23):
and scheduled an appointment with a therapist.
Okay.
So I'm just going to coin the phrase from my co-host, Dirty Skittles.
I had to speed date my therapist, meaning I had to go through three different therapists
before I found the one that worked for me.
And my therapy is different.
I had to do different types of therapy.
I do talk therapy.
(03:43):
I do art therapy.
I do a little nature therapy.
I do a lot of writing, but therapy was a game changer for me because it was somebody that
was unbiased, right?
Like we can all talk to our friends.
We can talk to our family members.
We can talk to our spouses, but they all have a biased opinion.
And sometimes they don't have the right tools to help us in that moment.
(04:06):
That's where my therapist comes in.
They, it was a game changer for me.
And the therapist I have now, I've had her now for two years.
Amazing.
Like when I got really depressed again in November, I was able to go back and use the tool,
like pull out the tools out of my tool chest that my therapist had taught me and used.
(04:27):
And I was able to use them to get past the anxiety and the depression that I was feeling.
And she also helped me to open up because for the first time, everybody knew how I felt.
And I didn't keep an all bottle of lip in the normal, extroverted way, right?
Like this time I did display the rest of the bitch raised.
I was able to be authentic to myself and be very vulnerable and figure out that, hey,
(04:51):
I'm not okay.
And I wouldn't have had those tools if I hadn't gone to therapy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It really is, I think, for so many people that change agent that can bring you from that place
of paralysis, like emotional paralysis.
When you don't know where to turn, you don't know where you're feeling, you don't know how
(05:12):
to navigate through it.
You can't see that there's another side to it.
And then, and then you bring in a therapist.
And like you said, not every therapist is created equally, not every dynamic is, is a good
dynamic.
You know, this is not to say that therapists are good or bad.
And just everybody interacts in different ways and has different vibes and chemistry together.
And sometimes you get it right on the first try and sometimes you got to shop around a
(05:35):
little bit for everybody's sake.
And I'll tell you, I happened to, was it really even looking for a therapist?
It was kind of there in my mind, you know, but I come at life from the perspective of a
mom and I have a husband and a family and kids.
And, you know, you tend to put yourself last, like dead last.
(06:01):
And I always did in that way, like always prioritize the girls, always prioritized Dave, needed
to make sure my people were all good.
Had this like hyper vigilant personality that always needed, you okay, you okay, everybody
okay?
What do you need?
What can I do?
I joke about that a lot, but it's a real legitimate side of my personality and it comes from a place
(06:28):
of just always kind of thinking about everybody else before I think about myself.
And I remember I had this conversation with a really dear friend of mine and we were talking
about trauma and we were talking about she has two children who see the same therapist
that I see and she knows me so well.
And when I said to her, I think, you know, I'd love to find a therapist.
(06:50):
I just, you know, you don't know who to go to these days.
This was for years ago, it was still pandemic-y times.
You just kind of, you know, flooding therapist's office.
You couldn't get appointments and you had to know somebody and she just was the right person
at the right time.
And this friend of mine said, I think you'd really vibe with this therapist we go to in my family.
(07:11):
And I was like, okay, maybe, maybe I'm taking this as a sign.
I'm reading the room and the universe is saying.
There's somebody out there for you right now.
So I made that call and I mean immediately.
Like within the first few minutes of sitting together, I knew that this was a person I felt
comfortable with and this was a person who had perspective and opinions and input that
(07:32):
would be valuable to me.
And God, like that, I think about in those early days of seeing her and kind of sharing
who I was and going through the kind of, you know, to know your phase kind of sessions
that last for a while in the beginning.
You know, I just remember what it felt like, how liberating.
(07:52):
That's the thing that stands out to me the most in the very beginning after so many decades
since the last time I went to therapy when I was like, you know, 22 and didn't know what
I wanted to do with my life.
And that's when I went to therapy.
It was not about, you know, anything other than, I don't know what I want to do with my
life.
Can you help me?
So then 30 years ago's fine.
I haven't seen anybody.
You know, a 50 something year old woman back in the therapist office.
(08:15):
And I just remember thinking about it like, holy shit, I get to talk about my stuff, like
my stuff.
I get to, you know, I don't have to listen right now.
I can actually be the one to share.
And it took a while.
I get to go wild for me to kind of settle into that.
Like, wait a minute, this is my hour.
This is my time.
So you still listening to everybody else.
(08:36):
And what that did for my heart and what that did for my capacity to understand myself
I don't even think we, I don't think there's enough time for us in the rest of the month
of May to talk about how that went, you know, the impact of that.
But yeah, it's the greatest thing I ever did for myself.
Hey, man, the greatest thing I ever did for myself too.
(08:56):
And then it opened my eyes to different kinds of therapy, right?
Like I do EFT.
I do tapping because I'm, I mean, I have a little anxiety.
I've done art therapy.
Like the best thing in the world is to draw out your anxiety, draw your anger.
Maybe go get a, get some clay, build something.
But it, and those types of therapies can take my head out of the situation that I'm in.
(09:23):
And focus on the task at hand.
I also do nature therapy.
I live on eight acres of forested land.
So I can go for a walk.
I don't go for a walk from like November until like April because there's usually snow
on the ground.
You know, that's a whole other story.
But getting out into nature or fishing, fishing is very therapeutic to me.
(09:45):
You know, find the things that work for you because sometimes like person to person therapy
is not going to work for you.
But there's so many different kinds of therapy out there.
And I'm a huge advocate for it.
Find those resources that are available out there and do it for you.
Don't do it for anybody else.
Do it for you.
Because at the end of the day, you're the one who has to live inside your head.
(10:08):
And if you can get some of that shit that's one on your head out, whether it's talking
to somebody, drawing it, walking it off, spending time in nature, any of those things, it's still
considered therapy.
A huge proponent.
Like I went to therapy before, before everything went down.
It's probably the same as sugar did like 30 years ago.
(10:32):
But I knew at the time when all the shit finally came to a head that I couldn't do it myself.
And as much as I love my wife and my friends and my colleagues, they weren't going to be
able to help me.
They didn't have the tools in their tool chest to give me that really dark place.
And it took me a long time to just feel comfortable in my own skin again.
(10:52):
Yeah, I know.
I know.
You know, it's interesting.
You just said something that made me think of things in terms of a parent.
Like I feel like talking to family when you're struggling and you're stressed out is how we
don't really connect in the same way with our family that we would with, you know, training
professional is a lot like when you try to get your kids to listen to you, when you're
(11:15):
a parent, and they'll listen to like everybody but you like you could literally say the same
words that someone else in the universe says.
And they'll be like, you're wrong.
It's not true.
That won't work.
And then all of a sudden they listen to somebody else and like, oh, wow, like that was so helpful.
And you just want to like ring their little necks because you just literally said the same
(11:36):
thing.
It's like that with, you know, with our trauma, with our stress, like the people who are
closest to us have a different perspective.
We know they have a different perspective.
They have a different way of engaging with us.
They may say things that are maybe more hurtful or more toxic or more invasive than the
therapist would say.
(11:57):
And I just think about kind of the relationship that I have with my therapist.
She's not there trying to, you know, give me spoon feed me the answers.
That's not what therapy is.
That's certainly not what my experience with therapy has been.
It's more like the question lies within, like the answer lies within the question, you
know, when I find myself asking her a question, it's almost like, you know, she's a guide.
(12:18):
You know, she's what she has helped me to recognize in the three years that we've been together.
I'm not sure I ever would have recognized had I been left kind of alone in my own head
with my own resources.
And the irony is like, so, you know, for anyone who's listening to us for the first time,
G and I are two different kinds of survivors.
You're an attempt suicide attempt survivor.
(12:40):
I'm a suicide loss survivor.
I never imagined myself.
I never identified as a trauma survivor in my life until my therapist was like, you know,
you're a trauma survivor, right?
And I was like, you're talking to me, me?
You know, like I never, it never clicked.
And it's like the most obvious, ridiculous thing to miss.
(13:01):
But I just, I never connected those dots.
So I never thought about it.
And that was insanely eye opening to me.
That just that kind of reclassified everything for me in that moment.
I would never have gotten to that point.
I don't think if I hadn't had a therapist, you know, I just don't think I would have
the other thing that I remember so profoundly.
(13:21):
This happened kind of recently, like within the past year we were talking.
So I, along with losing my cousin and a close childhood friend to suicide, I lost my father.
But I didn't learn that my father died by suicide for 35 years.
So that's part of my story.
And what's interesting, my therapist and I were kind of going back over that period of time
(13:43):
when my father died the first time he died because I've lost him twice.
So the first time he died, I was 10 years old.
I was told it was a heart attack.
I was grieving the loss of my best friend in the world.
I had no siblings.
And it never dawned on me until I was probably 55 years old in therapy that I never actually
grieved my father's death when I was 10 years old.
(14:04):
Never even occurred to me.
And it was because my therapist asked me the simplest question said, who was asking you
how you were when you were a kid?
Like who was asking if you were okay?
Don't get me wrong, my mother and you know my mother.
My mother is the greatest human of all time.
She was the most devoted, loving, loyal, present mother supported me in every possible way.
(14:27):
But nobody else was asking me if I was okay.
I was a fourth grader and I didn't have a single solitary conversation with a single soul.
I'm not a teacher, not a student, friend, no one about my father dying.
It was like, I walked into school that September.
I lost my father in August.
I walked into school in September as the only kid in my fourth grade, the entire school
(14:50):
who didn't have a dad.
And I was completely isolated from that point in time on.
And my therapist made me realize I had never actually grieved my father's death because nobody
was there to grieve it with me.
So those kinds of epiphanies, like that's what therapy is all about.
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What 100% you know, I love my way to dev, but she just, she wasn't equipped.
(16:21):
She saw who I was through her own lens, but I needed something deeper and more significant
for me to figure out, you know, kind of what was going on with me.
You know, I had a lot of PTSD going on, didn't realize that was a thing.
I had this deep-setted depression, didn't know how to fix it, but I was given these amazing
(16:44):
tools and just helped me to realize myself and what was going on.
One of the very first things that we talked about for me, because I'm an empath also, setting
boundaries.
I wouldn't have known anything about that if I'd gone through therapy.
That's been a game changer and a life changer for me.
(17:05):
Also, you know, just I'm writing my book, right?
I'm writing my book from what happened and started happening in October of 2022, right up
through like today.
I was almost done, then I quit my job and now I just rewrite the last chapter, but I learned
so much about myself, not just through therapy, but through writing because I found it to be
very bizarre because you learn a lot about yourself when you write a book.
(17:28):
I think that's the truth.
And just having that resource, right, having that unbiased opinion, or just unbiased, it's
not even an opinion.
Somebody who's unbiased, who can listen to you and help you figure out the things that
you really want to work on and give you tools to make that make those moments easier.
(17:48):
So there's a lot of homework.
I mean, I still do homework on myself today.
For sure.
Still growing, still learning.
Well, I changed the therapist.
Probably not.
I mean, I really love my therapist.
She's made me feel, she gave me back that feeling of the way that everybody else sees me,
right?
And so all the goodness I put out into the world is now starting to come back to me.
(18:11):
I've had a really hard time adjusting to that because that's just not how I think.
But I wouldn't have had that epiphany without her.
And I'm very thankful that I can go to therapy.
Yeah, it's definitely, I keep saying it in these terms and it's true.
It's a gift to be able to engage with someone that way and have such a safe, protected,
(18:35):
nurturing space where you can really say anything and you can take advantage of the benefit
of somebody else's education, you know, someone, someone else's knowledge in the field of psychology
that was so much about myself.
Like, I didn't know that I had a hyper vigilant personality type.
But my therapist had the words to explain the behaviors that had never been explained
(18:56):
to me in that way before and just unlocked this whole side of me that I never understood.
So I mentioned it a little while ago that I am this hyper vigilant personality type where
I'm always kind of running around behind everybody.
Okay, okay, everybody good, everybody good.
And I'm always putting myself dead last because I'm way more concerned with making sure that
(19:18):
everybody else in my life is okay.
And I didn't know why.
Like I didn't know like that kind of haunted me for a long time.
I didn't know where that behavior came from.
But it was through conversations, lots and lots of conversations over the period of months
with a therapist and I finally got to a point where it was like, well, it's right there.
(19:38):
That's why it's because you were 10 years old and the person you loved the most at that
time in your life, they left, they left.
They're gone now.
And I've had other losses in my life.
I mean, one of the things you and I actually have not yet talked about, we talk about, you
know, your attempt and we talk about the three losses that I've experienced, but I've been
(20:00):
accompanied by grief my entire life.
I mean, it may have started when I was nine years old, but the year that my father died,
I think we lost something like six or eight people in my family on my father's side of
the family from various illnesses and situations.
And so it felt for a time when I was a kid like all we ever did was go to funerals.
All we ever did was have to pay condolence calls.
(20:23):
Like it was crazy at that time.
And then, you know, since then losing grandparents and losing aunts and cousins and friends.
And so it's been this kind of revolving door of grief.
And I guess in my mind, I got wired as a very little kid to feel like, okay, I got to make
sure everybody's okay all the time so they don't go anywhere.
And it was just the simple fleshing out of that reason behind my behavior that all of
(20:50):
a sudden unlocked something for me.
And I was like, that's why I'm like that.
That's why I do that.
And it gave me permission to take a step back to be a little less vigilant in that way.
Didn't mean I wasn't present.
Didn't mean I didn't care anymore.
Didn't mean I didn't love these people.
It just meant that I let myself off the hook as being responsible for their wellness, if
(21:11):
that makes sense.
Like how I learned about setting boundaries, right?
And I can protect my own mental health.
And one of the things that I found through therapy is that it doesn't have to be person-to-person,
right?
There's also like text-based therapy.
You know, now that we have all these amazing electronic tools that are disposal, like let's
(21:32):
say you don't want to talk face-to-face with somebody, okay, but you're more comfortable
texting.
You have those options now.
Think of companies like Calmary.
They have different types of therapy platforms.
Giving you the ability to do text therapy versus talk therapy, that works for some people.
For me, I actually needed, I need to be able to see the person I'm talking to.
(21:54):
I never, prior to my suicide attempt, I had never thought about it.
But I need somebody to listen to me because sometimes I have these crazy ideas in my head,
right?
And I need to validate the crazy part.
I need a therapist because for me, I need to be able to read people's facial expressions
(22:15):
to figure out am I really fucking crazy?
Or is this just a normal thought process?
And I love that.
But I also engage in my other therapies.
You know, energy healing.
I've done EFT.
I've done, like I said, art therapy.
I've done them all.
And I'm still learning.
I'm still learning about myself.
(22:36):
I'm still learning how to deal with PTSD.
Because that sits with you for a really long time.
And I'm fortunate that we get to talk about that, talk about this now because it is mental
health awareness month, right?
Like just check it out.
Check out the calmly.
Check out what's out there available for you, what you can afford, what works for you.
(22:57):
Because like I said, not every type of therapy works for everyone.
So find the one that works for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm also very happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
(23:18):
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
(23:39):
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
(24:01):
Virtually.
So you can have a conversation face to face in a protected environment.
But they also make it affordable.
Like, you're not spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars at a time
for an hour long session.
You can support that financially because they make it possible to do that.
And so we're very lucky to live in an age where we have all these different modalities
(24:24):
for getting support.
And I think that, like you said, it's just a matter of kind of try things out.
See what fits.
See what works.
Are you a text person?
Are you a face-to-face person?
Are you in person?
Are you in a screen person?
You know, there are so many different ways now that we can get the help that we need.
(24:46):
It's really just a matter of exploring what those ways are.
And taking advantage of them.
And, you know, no one says you have to do one or the other.
You can do 10 different things if that suits you.
It's like you said yourself, you've got like an arsenal of things that you use, which is great.
You know, I think for a lot of people, they're just, you know, they're afraid.
(25:07):
There's that little stigma that still exists when you talk about going to therapy.
Like, I talk about my therapist.
Like, she's a rock star because I feel so grateful to be able to work with her.
And, you know, I feel like it's benefited me so much.
But, you know, we have to kind of learn how to sidestep that stigma and just do the thing for ourselves that will support us in the ways that we need to be supported in therapy.
(25:32):
Man, that is one of the big ones.
For sure. And, you know, in almost every city or every county, there is a mental health office.
You can reach out to those resources.
Nine times out of 10, they have approved every resource that you can use.
Use those resources and will include some information in our show notes on how to find those resources.
(25:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
And the other thing that people can take advantage of if you're curious about things like online therapy and you're curious about platforms like Calmary.
We have a beautiful relationship with them.
They have gifted us a discount code for anybody who's part of the survivors podcast community.
And that's in the show notes.
So, you know, there are ways to explore these things. Give them a try, pick what works for you and lean into those things because they're there for us to make life easier.
(26:23):
Hey, man. Man, what a powerful conversation this was.
I feel like everyone is powerful.
I think so too. I can't wait to talk to you next week.
I know I'm going to miss you.
-Miss you. -Miss you.
Okay, love you.
Love you. Bye. Bye.
Thanks for joining us on the survivors.
Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are in up and the world needs you just the way you are.
(26:44):
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here and every step forward counts.
We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope they'll take one day at a time.
Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here, friends. Just remember, help is out there in so many different places.
So if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be there to help.
(27:09):
You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental health resources, tools and content at thehelphub.co.
Just remember that help is always just a call or a click away.
We'll catch you next week. In the meantime, keep surviving.
I think.
The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at the Hellpub.
(00:05):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and maybe triggering for some
listeners.
So please take care of your mental well-being by pausing or skipping any sections that
feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 9-8-8 for support.
I hate it when you try and make me laugh right as you're hitting the record button.
(00:26):
I couldn't help it.
I was about to burp.
You need to learn how to control yourself.
It's the whole issue.
No, don't do that.
Nobody wants to hear that.
I can't hear.
I can't hear.
I didn't.
All right.
Let's just consider this a blooper role and we'll just keep going.
We'll just keep going.
Oh, if you, I'm not, I'm ignoring what you're doing because you're trying to throw me off.
I can see it.
(00:46):
I can feel it.
All right.
So here's, here's the topic today because you and I talked about this offline and we wanted
to continue the mental health awareness month conversation because we're still here in
the month of May and we're still talking about amplifying resources and what can people
find out in the world that can be a source of support and a source of guidance when they're
(01:12):
not okay.
And what you and I discovered each individually on our own is the value and importance of therapy.
Amen.
And that like you and I were like, okay, well, so what should we talk about in this episode
for mental health awareness month and then both of us are kind of like, well, that's obvious.
We haven't talked at all yet about the value of therapy and let me tell you, I'm going
(01:39):
to really going to do my very, very best not to shout out my therapist by name because
I don't want to horribly embarrass her, but because she's a very unique name.
Let's just say that she has become such a vital part of my life.
She has become such an important part of my mental health and wellness journey.
(01:59):
She has guided me, helped me, supported me in ways that I didn't even realize I needed.
And as a result, we just, she and I just had this conversation.
I think it was last week or the week before where I said, you know, I really feel more centered.
I feel more grounded.
I feel more authentically myself than I think I may have ever felt in my life.
(02:20):
And I've been seeing her now for three years and every week that I get to sit with her,
whatever it is that we're talking about is a gift.
It's, I think it's probably, for me, it's probably the greatest act of self care or one of
the greatest acts of self care that I've ever gifted to myself.
And I say it that way very intentionally because there are so many different things that
(02:40):
we can do for ourselves in regard to self care.
And I'm not sure that people often put therapy on that list, like people think, you know,
like in a massage or like at my nails done or go to yoga class or buy myself a treat.
We don't think of it in terms of therapy as the gift, but I don't know about you, but
that's how I feel about it.
(03:01):
And I am so grateful to myself that I went seeking it out at what 53 years old after
30 years of being away from therapy.
Great thing I ever did.
100% like the night, like a couple hours after I called my eight, that's when I had gone ahead
(03:23):
and scheduled an appointment with a therapist.
Okay.
So I'm just going to coin the phrase from my co-host, Dirty Skittles.
I had to speed date my therapist, meaning I had to go through three different therapists
before I found the one that worked for me.
And my therapy is different.
I had to do different types of therapy.
I do talk therapy.
(03:43):
I do art therapy.
I do a little nature therapy.
I do a lot of writing, but therapy was a game changer for me because it was somebody that
was unbiased, right?
Like we can all talk to our friends.
We can talk to our family members.
We can talk to our spouses, but they all have a biased opinion.
And sometimes they don't have the right tools to help us in that moment.
(04:06):
That's where my therapist comes in.
They, it was a game changer for me.
And the therapist I have now, I've had her now for two years.
Amazing.
Like when I got really depressed again in November, I was able to go back and use the tool,
like pull out the tools out of my tool chest that my therapist had taught me and used.
(04:27):
And I was able to use them to get past the anxiety and the depression that I was feeling.
And she also helped me to open up because for the first time, everybody knew how I felt.
And I didn't keep an all bottle of lip in the normal, extroverted way, right?
Like this time I did display the rest of the bitch raised.
I was able to be authentic to myself and be very vulnerable and figure out that, hey,
(04:51):
I'm not okay.
And I wouldn't have had those tools if I hadn't gone to therapy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It really is, I think, for so many people that change agent that can bring you from that place
of paralysis, like emotional paralysis.
When you don't know where to turn, you don't know where you're feeling, you don't know how
(05:12):
to navigate through it.
You can't see that there's another side to it.
And then, and then you bring in a therapist.
And like you said, not every therapist is created equally, not every dynamic is, is a good
dynamic.
You know, this is not to say that therapists are good or bad.
And just everybody interacts in different ways and has different vibes and chemistry together.
And sometimes you get it right on the first try and sometimes you got to shop around a
(05:35):
little bit for everybody's sake.
And I'll tell you, I happened to, was it really even looking for a therapist?
It was kind of there in my mind, you know, but I come at life from the perspective of a
mom and I have a husband and a family and kids.
And, you know, you tend to put yourself last, like dead last.
(06:01):
And I always did in that way, like always prioritize the girls, always prioritized Dave, needed
to make sure my people were all good.
Had this like hyper vigilant personality that always needed, you okay, you okay, everybody
okay?
What do you need?
What can I do?
I joke about that a lot, but it's a real legitimate side of my personality and it comes from a place
(06:28):
of just always kind of thinking about everybody else before I think about myself.
And I remember I had this conversation with a really dear friend of mine and we were talking
about trauma and we were talking about she has two children who see the same therapist
that I see and she knows me so well.
And when I said to her, I think, you know, I'd love to find a therapist.
(06:50):
I just, you know, you don't know who to go to these days.
This was for years ago, it was still pandemic-y times.
You just kind of, you know, flooding therapist's office.
You couldn't get appointments and you had to know somebody and she just was the right person
at the right time.
And this friend of mine said, I think you'd really vibe with this therapist we go to in my family.
(07:11):
And I was like, okay, maybe, maybe I'm taking this as a sign.
I'm reading the room and the universe is saying.
There's somebody out there for you right now.
So I made that call and I mean immediately.
Like within the first few minutes of sitting together, I knew that this was a person I felt
comfortable with and this was a person who had perspective and opinions and input that
(07:32):
would be valuable to me.
And God, like that, I think about in those early days of seeing her and kind of sharing
who I was and going through the kind of, you know, to know your phase kind of sessions
that last for a while in the beginning.
You know, I just remember what it felt like, how liberating.
(07:52):
That's the thing that stands out to me the most in the very beginning after so many decades
since the last time I went to therapy when I was like, you know, 22 and didn't know what
I wanted to do with my life.
And that's when I went to therapy.
It was not about, you know, anything other than, I don't know what I want to do with my
life.
Can you help me?
So then 30 years ago's fine.
I haven't seen anybody.
You know, a 50 something year old woman back in the therapist office.
(08:15):
And I just remember thinking about it like, holy shit, I get to talk about my stuff, like
my stuff.
I get to, you know, I don't have to listen right now.
I can actually be the one to share.
And it took a while.
I get to go wild for me to kind of settle into that.
Like, wait a minute, this is my hour.
This is my time.
So you still listening to everybody else.
(08:36):
And what that did for my heart and what that did for my capacity to understand myself
I don't even think we, I don't think there's enough time for us in the rest of the month
of May to talk about how that went, you know, the impact of that.
But yeah, it's the greatest thing I ever did for myself.
Hey, man, the greatest thing I ever did for myself too.
(08:56):
And then it opened my eyes to different kinds of therapy, right?
Like I do EFT.
I do tapping because I'm, I mean, I have a little anxiety.
I've done art therapy.
Like the best thing in the world is to draw out your anxiety, draw your anger.
Maybe go get a, get some clay, build something.
But it, and those types of therapies can take my head out of the situation that I'm in.
(09:23):
And focus on the task at hand.
I also do nature therapy.
I live on eight acres of forested land.
So I can go for a walk.
I don't go for a walk from like November until like April because there's usually snow
on the ground.
You know, that's a whole other story.
But getting out into nature or fishing, fishing is very therapeutic to me.
(09:45):
You know, find the things that work for you because sometimes like person to person therapy
is not going to work for you.
But there's so many different kinds of therapy out there.
And I'm a huge advocate for it.
Find those resources that are available out there and do it for you.
Don't do it for anybody else.
Do it for you.
Because at the end of the day, you're the one who has to live inside your head.
(10:08):
And if you can get some of that shit that's one on your head out, whether it's talking
to somebody, drawing it, walking it off, spending time in nature, any of those things, it's still
considered therapy.
A huge proponent.
Like I went to therapy before, before everything went down.
It's probably the same as sugar did like 30 years ago.
(10:32):
But I knew at the time when all the shit finally came to a head that I couldn't do it myself.
And as much as I love my wife and my friends and my colleagues, they weren't going to be
able to help me.
They didn't have the tools in their tool chest to give me that really dark place.
And it took me a long time to just feel comfortable in my own skin again.
(10:52):
Yeah, I know.
I know.
You know, it's interesting.
You just said something that made me think of things in terms of a parent.
Like I feel like talking to family when you're struggling and you're stressed out is how we
don't really connect in the same way with our family that we would with, you know, training
professional is a lot like when you try to get your kids to listen to you, when you're
(11:15):
a parent, and they'll listen to like everybody but you like you could literally say the same
words that someone else in the universe says.
And they'll be like, you're wrong.
It's not true.
That won't work.
And then all of a sudden they listen to somebody else and like, oh, wow, like that was so helpful.
And you just want to like ring their little necks because you just literally said the same
(11:36):
thing.
It's like that with, you know, with our trauma, with our stress, like the people who are
closest to us have a different perspective.
We know they have a different perspective.
They have a different way of engaging with us.
They may say things that are maybe more hurtful or more toxic or more invasive than the
therapist would say.
(11:57):
And I just think about kind of the relationship that I have with my therapist.
She's not there trying to, you know, give me spoon feed me the answers.
That's not what therapy is.
That's certainly not what my experience with therapy has been.
It's more like the question lies within, like the answer lies within the question, you
know, when I find myself asking her a question, it's almost like, you know, she's a guide.
(12:18):
You know, she's what she has helped me to recognize in the three years that we've been together.
I'm not sure I ever would have recognized had I been left kind of alone in my own head
with my own resources.
And the irony is like, so, you know, for anyone who's listening to us for the first time,
G and I are two different kinds of survivors.
You're an attempt suicide attempt survivor.
(12:40):
I'm a suicide loss survivor.
I never imagined myself.
I never identified as a trauma survivor in my life until my therapist was like, you know,
you're a trauma survivor, right?
And I was like, you're talking to me, me?
You know, like I never, it never clicked.
And it's like the most obvious, ridiculous thing to miss.
(13:01):
But I just, I never connected those dots.
So I never thought about it.
And that was insanely eye opening to me.
That just that kind of reclassified everything for me in that moment.
I would never have gotten to that point.
I don't think if I hadn't had a therapist, you know, I just don't think I would have
the other thing that I remember so profoundly.
(13:21):
This happened kind of recently, like within the past year we were talking.
So I, along with losing my cousin and a close childhood friend to suicide, I lost my father.
But I didn't learn that my father died by suicide for 35 years.
So that's part of my story.
And what's interesting, my therapist and I were kind of going back over that period of time
(13:43):
when my father died the first time he died because I've lost him twice.
So the first time he died, I was 10 years old.
I was told it was a heart attack.
I was grieving the loss of my best friend in the world.
I had no siblings.
And it never dawned on me until I was probably 55 years old in therapy that I never actually
grieved my father's death when I was 10 years old.
(14:04):
Never even occurred to me.
And it was because my therapist asked me the simplest question said, who was asking you
how you were when you were a kid?
Like who was asking if you were okay?
Don't get me wrong, my mother and you know my mother.
My mother is the greatest human of all time.
She was the most devoted, loving, loyal, present mother supported me in every possible way.
(14:27):
But nobody else was asking me if I was okay.
I was a fourth grader and I didn't have a single solitary conversation with a single soul.
I'm not a teacher, not a student, friend, no one about my father dying.
It was like, I walked into school that September.
I lost my father in August.
I walked into school in September as the only kid in my fourth grade, the entire school
(14:50):
who didn't have a dad.
And I was completely isolated from that point in time on.
And my therapist made me realize I had never actually grieved my father's death because nobody
was there to grieve it with me.
So those kinds of epiphanies, like that's what therapy is all about.
Struggling with your mental health, feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone, well you're
(15:12):
not.
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you need it most.
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those challenges the same way.
So whether you're looking for crisis support, downloadable resources, or an extensive archive
of mental health-related articles and videos we've got you.
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blogs to interactive tools and professional connections, the Help Hub meets you where you
are, and helps you move forward with strength and support.
Remember, you don't have to do this alone.
Visit thehelphub.co today.
What 100% you know, I love my way to dev, but she just, she wasn't equipped.
(16:21):
She saw who I was through her own lens, but I needed something deeper and more significant
for me to figure out, you know, kind of what was going on with me.
You know, I had a lot of PTSD going on, didn't realize that was a thing.
I had this deep-setted depression, didn't know how to fix it, but I was given these amazing
(16:44):
tools and just helped me to realize myself and what was going on.
One of the very first things that we talked about for me, because I'm an empath also, setting
boundaries.
I wouldn't have known anything about that if I'd gone through therapy.
That's been a game changer and a life changer for me.
(17:05):
Also, you know, just I'm writing my book, right?
I'm writing my book from what happened and started happening in October of 2022, right up
through like today.
I was almost done, then I quit my job and now I just rewrite the last chapter, but I learned
so much about myself, not just through therapy, but through writing because I found it to be
very bizarre because you learn a lot about yourself when you write a book.
(17:28):
I think that's the truth.
And just having that resource, right, having that unbiased opinion, or just unbiased, it's
not even an opinion.
Somebody who's unbiased, who can listen to you and help you figure out the things that
you really want to work on and give you tools to make that make those moments easier.
(17:48):
So there's a lot of homework.
I mean, I still do homework on myself today.
For sure.
Still growing, still learning.
Well, I changed the therapist.
Probably not.
I mean, I really love my therapist.
She's made me feel, she gave me back that feeling of the way that everybody else sees me,
right?
And so all the goodness I put out into the world is now starting to come back to me.
(18:11):
I've had a really hard time adjusting to that because that's just not how I think.
But I wouldn't have had that epiphany without her.
And I'm very thankful that I can go to therapy.
Yeah, it's definitely, I keep saying it in these terms and it's true.
It's a gift to be able to engage with someone that way and have such a safe, protected,
(18:35):
nurturing space where you can really say anything and you can take advantage of the benefit
of somebody else's education, you know, someone, someone else's knowledge in the field of psychology
that was so much about myself.
Like, I didn't know that I had a hyper vigilant personality type.
But my therapist had the words to explain the behaviors that had never been explained
(18:56):
to me in that way before and just unlocked this whole side of me that I never understood.
So I mentioned it a little while ago that I am this hyper vigilant personality type where
I'm always kind of running around behind everybody.
Okay, okay, everybody good, everybody good.
And I'm always putting myself dead last because I'm way more concerned with making sure that
(19:18):
everybody else in my life is okay.
And I didn't know why.
Like I didn't know like that kind of haunted me for a long time.
I didn't know where that behavior came from.
But it was through conversations, lots and lots of conversations over the period of months
with a therapist and I finally got to a point where it was like, well, it's right there.
(19:38):
That's why it's because you were 10 years old and the person you loved the most at that
time in your life, they left, they left.
They're gone now.
And I've had other losses in my life.
I mean, one of the things you and I actually have not yet talked about, we talk about, you
know, your attempt and we talk about the three losses that I've experienced, but I've been
(20:00):
accompanied by grief my entire life.
I mean, it may have started when I was nine years old, but the year that my father died,
I think we lost something like six or eight people in my family on my father's side of
the family from various illnesses and situations.
And so it felt for a time when I was a kid like all we ever did was go to funerals.
All we ever did was have to pay condolence calls.
(20:23):
Like it was crazy at that time.
And then, you know, since then losing grandparents and losing aunts and cousins and friends.
And so it's been this kind of revolving door of grief.
And I guess in my mind, I got wired as a very little kid to feel like, okay, I got to make
sure everybody's okay all the time so they don't go anywhere.
And it was just the simple fleshing out of that reason behind my behavior that all of
(20:50):
a sudden unlocked something for me.
And I was like, that's why I'm like that.
That's why I do that.
And it gave me permission to take a step back to be a little less vigilant in that way.
Didn't mean I wasn't present.
Didn't mean I didn't care anymore.
Didn't mean I didn't love these people.
It just meant that I let myself off the hook as being responsible for their wellness, if
(21:11):
that makes sense.
Like how I learned about setting boundaries, right?
And I can protect my own mental health.
And one of the things that I found through therapy is that it doesn't have to be person-to-person,
right?
There's also like text-based therapy.
You know, now that we have all these amazing electronic tools that are disposal, like let's
(21:32):
say you don't want to talk face-to-face with somebody, okay, but you're more comfortable
texting.
You have those options now.
Think of companies like Calmary.
They have different types of therapy platforms.
Giving you the ability to do text therapy versus talk therapy, that works for some people.
For me, I actually needed, I need to be able to see the person I'm talking to.
(21:54):
I never, prior to my suicide attempt, I had never thought about it.
But I need somebody to listen to me because sometimes I have these crazy ideas in my head,
right?
And I need to validate the crazy part.
I need a therapist because for me, I need to be able to read people's facial expressions
(22:15):
to figure out am I really fucking crazy?
Or is this just a normal thought process?
And I love that.
But I also engage in my other therapies.
You know, energy healing.
I've done EFT.
I've done, like I said, art therapy.
I've done them all.
And I'm still learning.
I'm still learning about myself.
(22:36):
I'm still learning how to deal with PTSD.
Because that sits with you for a really long time.
And I'm fortunate that we get to talk about that, talk about this now because it is mental
health awareness month, right?
Like just check it out.
Check out the calmly.
Check out what's out there available for you, what you can afford, what works for you.
(22:57):
Because like I said, not every type of therapy works for everyone.
So find the one that works for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm also very happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
(23:18):
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
(23:39):
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
And I'm really happy to be able to help you.
(24:01):
Virtually.
So you can have a conversation face to face in a protected environment.
But they also make it affordable.
Like, you're not spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars at a time
for an hour long session.
You can support that financially because they make it possible to do that.
And so we're very lucky to live in an age where we have all these different modalities
(24:24):
for getting support.
And I think that, like you said, it's just a matter of kind of try things out.
See what fits.
See what works.
Are you a text person?
Are you a face-to-face person?
Are you in person?
Are you in a screen person?
You know, there are so many different ways now that we can get the help that we need.
(24:46):
It's really just a matter of exploring what those ways are.
And taking advantage of them.
And, you know, no one says you have to do one or the other.
You can do 10 different things if that suits you.
It's like you said yourself, you've got like an arsenal of things that you use, which is great.
You know, I think for a lot of people, they're just, you know, they're afraid.
(25:07):
There's that little stigma that still exists when you talk about going to therapy.
Like, I talk about my therapist.
Like, she's a rock star because I feel so grateful to be able to work with her.
And, you know, I feel like it's benefited me so much.
But, you know, we have to kind of learn how to sidestep that stigma and just do the thing for ourselves that will support us in the ways that we need to be supported in therapy.
(25:32):
Man, that is one of the big ones.
For sure. And, you know, in almost every city or every county, there is a mental health office.
You can reach out to those resources.
Nine times out of 10, they have approved every resource that you can use.
Use those resources and will include some information in our show notes on how to find those resources.
(25:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
And the other thing that people can take advantage of if you're curious about things like online therapy and you're curious about platforms like Calmary.
We have a beautiful relationship with them.
They have gifted us a discount code for anybody who's part of the survivors podcast community.
And that's in the show notes.
So, you know, there are ways to explore these things. Give them a try, pick what works for you and lean into those things because they're there for us to make life easier.
(26:23):
Hey, man. Man, what a powerful conversation this was.
I feel like everyone is powerful.
I think so too. I can't wait to talk to you next week.
I know I'm going to miss you.
-Miss you. -Miss you.
Okay, love you.
Love you. Bye. Bye.
Thanks for joining us on the survivors.
Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are in up and the world needs you just the way you are.
(26:44):
You're not alone in this journey. There's a community here and every step forward counts.
We're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope they'll take one day at a time.
Just know there's always more light ahead.
Thanks for being here, friends. Just remember, help is out there in so many different places.
So if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be there to help.
(27:09):
You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental health resources, tools and content at thehelphub.co.
Just remember that help is always just a call or a click away.
We'll catch you next week. In the meantime, keep surviving.
I think.
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