April 2, 2025 • 24 mins
In this heartfelt episode, Lisa Sugarman and Gretchen Schoser break the silence around suicide, grief, and mental health with unflinching honesty and compassion. Through powerful personal stories and meaningful insights, they remind us that speaking up can save lives—and that no one should have to struggle alone.
🎥 Watch the Video Podcast on YouTube Catch the full video version of this episode here:
🔗 https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
In this powerful and deeply personal episode, Lisa Sugarman and Gretchen Schoser open up about why conversations around suicide, grief, and mental health are not just meaningful—they're essential. With raw honesty and compassionate storytelling, the hosts reflect on their journeys, the stigma around mental illness, and how simply saying “I’m not okay” can be the first step toward healing. From discussing the unseen pain people carry to the power of holding space for someone struggling, this episode is a beacon of light for anyone who feels alone in their mental health journey. This is it if you’ve ever needed a reason to speak up.
🎙️ Episode Sponsored by Calmerry
This episode is proudly brought to you by Calmerry, an online therapy platform providing affordable and accessible professional counseling.
🌐 Visit: https://calmerry.com/the-survivors-podcast/
🎟️ Use code SURVIVORS20 for 20% off your first month.
💙 Because your mental well-being matters. 💙
🧠 Episode Summary
Why do these conversations matter? Because lives depend on them. Lisa and Gretchen share survivor stories, personal revelations, and practical advice for those navigating grief, loss, depression, or the aftermath of a suicide attempt. They also highlight how gratitude, community, and connection can create powerful ripples of healing.
📝 Lessons Learned
💬 Talking saves lives—just one conversation can make a life-changing difference.
🧩 You’re not alone—we all carry grief, pain, or sadness differently.
🤝 Holding space matters—being present for someone can reduce suicide risk by over 40%.
🧘 Healing is not linear—progress looks different for everyone, and that’s okay.
🌱 Gratitude is a superpower—small moments of appreciation can shift your mindset.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 – Trigger Warning & Intro
02:00 – Why Conversations About Suicide Matter
06:30 – Survivor Stories & Shame Around Mental Illness
11:20 – The Power of Speaking Up
15:45 – Grief, Humor & Healing
19:00 – Personal Story: Losing a Parent to Suicide
22:30 – Holding Space for Others
26:00 – Tools for Mental Wellness
29:45 – The Importance of Community
33:00 – Why Gratitude Shifts Everything
36:15 – Final Thoughts & Next Steps
📚 Resources for Mental Health & Support
🔹 The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
🔹 The HelpHUB™ – https://www.thehelphub.co/
🔹 Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions – https://schosersolutions.com/
🔹 Calmerry – https://calmerry.com/
🔹 Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads Podcast – https://goesoninourheads.net/
📲 Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
#TheSurvivorsPodcast #EndTheStigma #MentalHealthMatters #SuicidePrevention #YouAreNotAlone #BreakTheSilence #GriefSupport #988Lifeline #SurvivorStories #HealingTogether #PodMatch #MentalHealth #SuicideAwareness #Podcast #Community #Hope #Grief #
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The survivors is brought to you by our friends at CalMory.
(00:02):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief, and loss, and maybe triggering for some listeners.
So please take care of your well-being by causing your skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 9-8-8 for support.
So why do these conversations matter?
Why is it even important to talk about the shit that's going on in our heads around suicide or mental illness?
(00:26):
Like, we have, it's an obligation.
Like, we have to talk about it.
Like, why? Because we have to.
Because it's the only way that we change the narrative on things like suicide and mental illness, the stuff that we're taught from the beginning of time that we're not supposed to talk about.
Right?
Well, none of us were taught this in school.
(00:47):
None of us were taught in school how to like manage our emotions, even talk about our emotions.
Unless it was like happy or sad, but we never talked about suicide.
We never talked about mental health. We never talked about our emotions other than like happy sad.
But now it's more important than ever.
People are going through a lot just in day to day, but like what's happening around us is bad.
(01:10):
And some where we don't talk about it.
And the more we just like keep it to ourselves, the worse that it gets.
And where these conversations matter, especially to me, being a suicide attempt survivor.
It makes people understand what's going on.
It gives us an outlet, right?
It's okay. Like when I was dealing with my stuff by myself.
(01:33):
Like in the early days, I would just write it down and you know, do an occasional social read post.
But having these face to face conversations and these are conversations you should be having.
If you can face to face, it's okay to do them conversations via text or swear an email.
But if you could pick up the phone and talk to somebody or if you are, I was a mess like friends,
(01:56):
like having a coffee danger and it's saying, it brings everything to light.
And I think when one person starts talking, it encourages another and it encourages another.
I think about I think about our friend Anderson Cooper out there on his podcast.
All there is just what this one human being has done.
(02:17):
Who kind of globally give people permission to have the hard conversations.
Think of all the people who are talking about it now because someone like that is talking about grief and loss.
That's the whole point because we get so stuck in the thought loops in our heads.
And I've talked about thought loops plenty of times that they're so isolating.
(02:37):
And it's like the same thing that's going on in our heads yesterday.
Is the same thing that's going on today is the same thing that's going to be going on a week from now.
If we don't bring in other perspectives, if we don't have a bigger global conversation about just the things that we're all dealing with, the irony of all of it, it kills me.
What culture it takes for us to get it kills me that we're all going through the same kinds of shit.
(03:03):
Just in a different head.
And that that's the irony that like we all experience grief.
We all experience loss. We all experience sadness.
We all experience hopelessness at some points. A lot of us experience depression and loss.
And we're all out here dealing with the same stuff and yet nobody's talking about it in the public.
For sure.
And I think that even sometimes like in our friend groups, we don't talk about it because we don't want to be judged.
(03:28):
But what I tell you, you might be going through something similar and we can see us that energy and hopefully take whatever
negativity or sadness or whatever is going on in our own heads.
And we can turn that table and make a conversation about joy.
But finding the happiness even in the craftiest of moments.
(03:51):
I can use an example when my mom passed away.
My oldest cousin seems like boss in the surround.
It was like right after we buried my mom and turned to her and it's like, who made you boss?
And we just all started laughing because my mom was the oldest of four.
Sorry, it like we turn that really sad moment to make some angst.
(04:11):
But we all kind of like laughed at that.
But it's amazing how laughter can help even the craftiest of things seem okay to talk about.
Yeah, it's true.
And that's why I think in a previous episode, we're joking around about something and like really laughing about something.
I can't remember what it was, but we were laughing about something in the context of suicide loss.
(04:34):
It's like if it wasn't taboo enough to be talking about suicide, like how dare you even make light of anything.
And I'm not making light of anything.
We're not joking about the thing.
We're joking about the madness of all of it where it's like this notion that we all have to arrive in this place of understanding that we can balance grief and joy.
(04:55):
Like those things can coexist.
Like forget it.
Throw in the towel now.
Just check out now if you're not willing to live in a world where grief and joy exists because that's what everybody's goal should be because every single one of us has to deal with it.
Yeah, I don't think there's a single person out there that has a doubt was some type of grief like a loss of a parent loss of a child loss of a friend loss of a job.
(05:20):
Any type of loss there's so much grief.
But the more we talk about that easier is to have those conversations.
Given people permission to talk about it.
But don't sweep these conversations under the rug and for me, I didn't talk about it for spring months and it a way of being a way of me and a way of.
(05:42):
And it made made the situation works in my defense.
So I didn't know how to talk about it and how to even bring it up.
So I think like if you have a friend or a significant other or parent like as those conversations just just start like it could be a word from it and it may not even sound.
(06:02):
Like you mean I'll be able to form that full sentence, but just let people know where you're just say you're not okay.
Just say I'm not okay and I really don't even know if I can express it, but I need you to know that I'm not okay.
And then maybe that's all it takes. Maybe that's all it takes and then somebody who's hearing that receives it and they hold space for it and they say okay.
I get that you you're in this place and I get that you can't really articulate it right now because you're so overwhelmed.
(06:26):
So let me ask you some questions like maybe that's what happens.
Maybe that's the dialogue that happens and somebody all of a sudden asks the question.
Whatever that question is that unlocks everything.
And I just think it's this such incredible power in having these conversations because it is so isolating.
There's so many things that we go through we all go through them and we talked about some of them brief loss and that kind of thing but like parenting for instance like being a new parent like that's hella isolating like I remember having two little kids at home and I was like shit.
(06:58):
Like by myself every day Dave was traveling you're kind of isolated in your own world and it's only when you get out there to start talking to other moms just start talking to other dads and you realize like oh man like we're all struggling over the same thing is a freedom in that is a liberation in that and mental health works the same way because that all of a sudden maybe you come across somebody who's dealing with the same kind of thing that you're dealing with and maybe they're doing something a little different and you never tried it you don't know about the thing that they're doing.
(07:27):
And then all of a sudden you have a conversation you're like really think that worked for you you're kidding and then you internalize that and you're like well but work for them maybe try it and then that's like a it's like a domino effect I think and I think what was really powerful in the conversation is that you can actually see off from each other you see off those energy so let's say you're super down in the dumps but your friend is super energetic is happy and you can be the person.
(07:56):
I'll just use my self as an example but being in front of the same space as those people that energy like bounced back to me helped me kind of get out of my head a little bit and figure out wow something really is wrong and I kind of fix it and having podcasts like this and having resources like calmerier like the digital age there's a ton out there.
(08:20):
One of the things I started doing early on is instead of like physically writing down my thoughts is I would just record it to my phone because I was still I still had like 8000 thoughts going on on my head and I just I didn't know how to get it so just you know words on it into my phone I go back and listen to some of those conversations you were like what were you thinking.
(08:43):
But you know what but it's an outlet and I think however you get it out of your head whether you're meditating it out or you're talking it out or you're journaling it out whatever it is try the thing do the thing and what works for one may not work for all but that you you're not going to know what what else is out there to even try.
If you're stuck in your own head and you're not expressing the way you're feeling the people because you can have the conversations to begin with to find out.
(09:11):
That you're not alone to find out what else is out there to help you wait for me to just also some gratitude grateful that I have a place to sleep grateful that I have food to eat grateful that I have a room for my head being grateful and having gratitude and that's why conversations like this are all sort of important because you're grateful for the things that you have.
(09:32):
Look for this look at the things that you have don't look at some things just you don't just you can work towards all things.
Yeah, I'm glad you said that I'm really glad that you said that about gratitude because that's one of the exercises as a human like personally in my own personal practice.
That's one of the things that I've done for a very very long time when I get into a place we all get into a shitty mood and have a bad day or you've never seen me in a shitty mood have you think that.
(10:00):
You will give a time trust me but when that happens and it happens to everybody I actually do this very intentional practice of whether I think of my kids or I think of the fact that my 86 year old mom and I just went to Japan last year like she's knock on wood she's still here and doing great and I think about the things that are the most important to me and I express that gratitude for those things whether I do it in a journal or I say it to myself in my head or.
(10:29):
Whatever it is because here's the interesting thing about gratitude it's an underrated superpower when you have the ability to be grateful about something it cancels everything else out and I'm not talking about indefinitely but in an isolated moment when you take gratitude and you immerse yourself in that moment of gratitude you can't be sad it's like how you can't what is it you can't you can't sneeze with your eyes open.
(10:53):
I mean it's like that it's impossible to be down and sad and hopeless when you are in the process of feeling gratitude even for a minute or two and even if it's only for a few seconds like it's it's like baby steps but the other reason that these conversations are important is that we could actually save some of these life if you take that one minute I'm telling you also takes one minute to ask someone how they're doing.
(11:21):
Kindness goes a long way you have absolutely zero idea what's going on in somebody else's head and so if you're addicted to them they may be having the worst friggin day of their life just behind and so reminding people that you know kindness of compassion go a long way.
Yeah they do reminding people that it's okay to say the word suicide that it's okay that people are depressed but also giving people like tips or resources they can reach out to to get from that next second to that sweat it to that stay and that to me is why these conversations are important.
(11:57):
Step to your mental well being with calmery trusted online therapy platform that supports you through life's challenges connect with licensed therapists and reap the benefits of traditional therapy enhanced with digital tools whenever you need it visit calmery.com to get started.
Right because otherwise we're all just stuck in our own little endless thought loops and nothing new is coming into impact those thoughts and those feelings and then the depression or the anxiety or whatever the negativity is that you're feeling and you're trapped.
(12:26):
You're only free when you allow yourself to express those things and acknowledge like sin in it be vulnerable and and be like I'm terrible right now I'm not okay I don't know what to do I don't know where to turn yet I'm going to find help is people don't know you're hurting I mean I did like look no further than my own dad you know I always use my father as an example because you know for those for those who don't know my story I lost my father when I was 10 years old he died of what I was told is heart attack very suddenly and I did.
(12:55):
Not learn the truth of my father's death until I was 45 years old so for 35 years I thought he had died of a heart attack but he actually had taken his own life you wouldn't never have known that my father was struggling he was like one of those people you talk about all the time the people who are the extraverted they seem larger than life were super happy and driven and grounded and all the things that you would never suspect and that was my dad and it's because he kept it all hidden.
(13:24):
For a variety of reasons I'm sure it was 1978 and who the hell was talking about mental illness and not being okay nobody was talking about it so back then I you know I guess it was it made sense but nowadays you can't fix we don't know it's broken.
100% that's it like that's the that's it if we said nothing else more about it we get in the episode right there and say if we don't know it's broken we can't help you fix.
(13:48):
Well you know what I'm guilty of that because nobody I mean absolutely nobody knew how depressed I was until after I made that call 98 and yes maybe there were some signs or I know for sure there were signs because I've talked to another episode where when I was writing my book number one was super sorry.
Number two I've learned some things that other people should have picked up on but the only sign of times on me even open my mouth and I didn't do that until I top to 98 because I like to figure out what the hell was going on instead so like fast word to like November last year when things weren't so good anymore until I came into your life until you came into my life and the two years of therapy you're gonna have to therapy knowing that my voice matters and letting
(14:36):
people know exactly where I stood and like I told you before I couldn't hide my resting pitch race anymore so I once I started opening up it was absolutely freeing it was like a weighted x-ray blanket getting torn off my shoulders giving voice to suicide is huge.
And giving voice to awareness and giving voice to like things that you can do as a caregiver a friend about a solid like things to look out for and how you can help somebody like me.
(15:09):
Tell about holding space. I mean talk about this all the time that holding space is an art form but it's also unbelievably easy just a glorified way of saying listening to what's on somebody's mind.
Just let the person say what they need to say and validate it no matter what it sounds like what it seems like because what might seem impossible to someone going like going through it like when you're when you're in it and whatever it is is all around you and all consuming.
(15:37):
Somebody else might hear them be like really like that's what's got you twisted like that's your issue but it's all relative what's terrible for you might not be so terrible for me and vice versa but it's when we talk about it we attach words to it in names to it in feelings to these things that they become real and when you hold space for someone no matter what they say you just hold space for it you accept it you validate it you listen without judgment.
(16:05):
I mean can save somebody's life like that's why we talk about it because it can save somebody's life to you so I'm for those who don't know one of the things that I do in the world of crisis counselor with the Trevor project and Trevor project is a suicide and crisis hotline for at risk LGBTQ use age 13 to 24 and to choose a statistic and since you are both part of the queer community this is very relevant to us and anyone else who's listening from the queer community one singular person if you are a person who's strong.
(16:34):
And one singular person in your life is there to listen to you do you know that it reduces your risk of taking your own life by over 40% did not know that by having one person be there to listen to you so this is why we say what's on our minds now why we have the conversations.
(16:55):
And for me it's me taking on a brave new role also like I took all my pain and two and a half years of therapy and I turn it in to purpose I don't want anybody to ever feel as terrified and alone as I did my own journey because it's like 59 and a half when all the shit went down I didn't know how to do it now I have a voice and I want to give these conversations a voice so if you're feeling that way like how do you how do you approach that.
(17:24):
So how do you approach somebody my first lot was to call my name it just needed somebody to kind of knew what was going on in my in my ad and had a conversation.
Help me to go and have a conversation with my wife and that's just somebody I've been together with or at the time 20 years I was like that's a tough conversation to admit that you're broken.
(17:46):
Serifying I was absolutely broke I'm better I'm like not a thousand times better I still go to therapy but I still want to have this conversation so I keep open and honest about them and I'm having a city a people now now I don't hold back anymore.
Nobody should hold back like I think people to or are afraid of being the asshole who's always in a bad mood or always got something wrong or struggling with something like that no there are a lot of people out there who don't want to be a burden they don't want to be perceived as weak they don't want to be the one who's always got the issue but the fellow look just.
(18:22):
Just like let go of that right now because it's bullshit be whoever you are be however you feel because the way this is important the way that you feel right now is not the way that you're always going to feel and you you pointing at you right there you are you are not you are the perfect person to to validate that because you were at your lowest point in your life didn't see anyway around it and didn't see any.
(18:51):
And didn't see any way through it and didn't know how to help yourself and never imagined that there was another side to it you were like so in the weeds that you couldn't see anything except there was another side and it didn't emerge right away it wasn't like all of a sudden the party of the red scene you just cruise on through was like you are bushwhacking through it for a long time but the point is look forward motion is still forward motion it's like the marathoner who runs the six minute mile and the one who runs the 12 minute mile they're still going to get there they're going to get there.
(19:20):
They're still going to finish the same race is just a different pace that's what mental health is you know you're you're walking your own walk and you do it at your own pace and you know don't feel for me like I was ashamed of the way I felt I don't feel ashamed for the way they feel worse humans and mental illness don't joke around like you will come back and like keep you in the ass 47 times but it's all in how you approach it.
(19:49):
And being honest with yourself I think the one thing that helped me the most was to stop the negative talk to myself instead of calm myself mass or every day I got to a better place like I am a good person I you know you read what you so you've done all these you've got these amazing ass waves it's taking look and taking a little piece of this because that all builds up and you're like you know I am a good person I'm just my head is moving.
(20:17):
And then I'm going to take a look at the end of the day where all the work and progress it's that simple where all the work and progress number one number two we all have shit and number three nobody's perfect so when you start there which is kind of where every single one of us starts I don't tell accomplished we are I don't care where you live what you drive how much money is in the bank but none of those things matter none of those things matter mental health isn't equal opportunity kind of a situation yeah it is but it's true it doesn't discriminate.
(20:46):
Doesn't matter who you are and the most important thing is to focus as much on the fact that you're allowed to feel that way as that you're focusing on that there is another side of it you have to give yourself permission to sit in it everybody try so let's fix it fix it fix it let's find the find the root cause do the therapy take the pill have the treatment get to the other side of it and yeah okay that's great that's what everybody wants to do but the fact is it's like process and it doesn't happen overnight and forward motion is
(21:15):
still forward motion it's like five months to see all the way with where I was and it was a hard five months but as crazy as it's
pounds is I'm thankful that I went through it and I'm thankful for that little glimmer there's always a little glimmer listen to the world with
I'm here today because of that glimmer that's what why I ended up calling 98 things panic glimmer hope the things were going to get better and they did yeah look like speaking realistically it takes time takes
(21:47):
work takes effort but there is another side to it and and that's the thing that most people just don't want to see can't see when you're in the
thick of it and that's why talking about it with other people can help to flesh that out can help you to shift your mind set because when you're locked in your
own head space you're only hearing one voice when you start talking and having the conversations and asking the questions and and really
(22:13):
opening up then you realize I go okay it's not just me people have survived this kind of thing before how did you do it what did you
do where did you go what helped for you and I think it's just it kind of snowballs in a good way from there but we have to just do willing to accept all
sides of it and and part of it is sending it you know sending it and building a 3MID now and just be tied behind your
(22:38):
self listen we we're all messy just be kind to yourself yeah we just we all need to give ourselves I think a lot more grace than we do
because we deserve it we really do deserve it we're just human beings and we're fowlable and we're all trying to navigate the same kinds of things it only makes sense that we try and do it
leaning into each other for help and support otherwise we'd all be living on our own little planet by ourselves that's not how it works we're here for a reason together for a reason
(23:05):
I want to go live on your aim is through in the whole show for some people that need the whole show it did that I'm super excited I can't wait to like chat with you next week I know me too I kind of want to just keep going but we should probably stop and then come back
get some water and hydrate all right see y'all next week love you love you thanks for joining us on the survivors remember no matter how tough things feel you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are
(23:34):
you're not alone in this journey there's a community here and every step forward counts we're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll take one day at a time just know there's always more light ahead
thanks for being here friends just remember help is out there in so many different places so if you or someone you know is struggling please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be there to help
(23:55):
you can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental health resources tools and content at the help hub dot CEO just remember that help is always just a call or a click away we'll catch you next week in the meantime keep surviving
The survivors is brought to you by our friends at CalMory.
(00:02):
This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief, and loss, and maybe triggering for some listeners.
So please take care of your well-being by causing your skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you.
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 9-8-8 for support.
So why do these conversations matter?
Why is it even important to talk about the shit that's going on in our heads around suicide or mental illness?
(00:26):
Like, we have, it's an obligation.
Like, we have to talk about it.
Like, why? Because we have to.
Because it's the only way that we change the narrative on things like suicide and mental illness, the stuff that we're taught from the beginning of time that we're not supposed to talk about.
Right?
Well, none of us were taught this in school.
(00:47):
None of us were taught in school how to like manage our emotions, even talk about our emotions.
Unless it was like happy or sad, but we never talked about suicide.
We never talked about mental health. We never talked about our emotions other than like happy sad.
But now it's more important than ever.
People are going through a lot just in day to day, but like what's happening around us is bad.
(01:10):
And some where we don't talk about it.
And the more we just like keep it to ourselves, the worse that it gets.
And where these conversations matter, especially to me, being a suicide attempt survivor.
It makes people understand what's going on.
It gives us an outlet, right?
It's okay. Like when I was dealing with my stuff by myself.
(01:33):
Like in the early days, I would just write it down and you know, do an occasional social read post.
But having these face to face conversations and these are conversations you should be having.
If you can face to face, it's okay to do them conversations via text or swear an email.
But if you could pick up the phone and talk to somebody or if you are, I was a mess like friends,
(01:56):
like having a coffee danger and it's saying, it brings everything to light.
And I think when one person starts talking, it encourages another and it encourages another.
I think about I think about our friend Anderson Cooper out there on his podcast.
All there is just what this one human being has done.
(02:17):
Who kind of globally give people permission to have the hard conversations.
Think of all the people who are talking about it now because someone like that is talking about grief and loss.
That's the whole point because we get so stuck in the thought loops in our heads.
And I've talked about thought loops plenty of times that they're so isolating.
(02:37):
And it's like the same thing that's going on in our heads yesterday.
Is the same thing that's going on today is the same thing that's going to be going on a week from now.
If we don't bring in other perspectives, if we don't have a bigger global conversation about just the things that we're all dealing with, the irony of all of it, it kills me.
What culture it takes for us to get it kills me that we're all going through the same kinds of shit.
(03:03):
Just in a different head.
And that that's the irony that like we all experience grief.
We all experience loss. We all experience sadness.
We all experience hopelessness at some points. A lot of us experience depression and loss.
And we're all out here dealing with the same stuff and yet nobody's talking about it in the public.
For sure.
And I think that even sometimes like in our friend groups, we don't talk about it because we don't want to be judged.
(03:28):
But what I tell you, you might be going through something similar and we can see us that energy and hopefully take whatever
negativity or sadness or whatever is going on in our own heads.
And we can turn that table and make a conversation about joy.
But finding the happiness even in the craftiest of moments.
(03:51):
I can use an example when my mom passed away.
My oldest cousin seems like boss in the surround.
It was like right after we buried my mom and turned to her and it's like, who made you boss?
And we just all started laughing because my mom was the oldest of four.
Sorry, it like we turn that really sad moment to make some angst.
(04:11):
But we all kind of like laughed at that.
But it's amazing how laughter can help even the craftiest of things seem okay to talk about.
Yeah, it's true.
And that's why I think in a previous episode, we're joking around about something and like really laughing about something.
I can't remember what it was, but we were laughing about something in the context of suicide loss.
(04:34):
It's like if it wasn't taboo enough to be talking about suicide, like how dare you even make light of anything.
And I'm not making light of anything.
We're not joking about the thing.
We're joking about the madness of all of it where it's like this notion that we all have to arrive in this place of understanding that we can balance grief and joy.
(04:55):
Like those things can coexist.
Like forget it.
Throw in the towel now.
Just check out now if you're not willing to live in a world where grief and joy exists because that's what everybody's goal should be because every single one of us has to deal with it.
Yeah, I don't think there's a single person out there that has a doubt was some type of grief like a loss of a parent loss of a child loss of a friend loss of a job.
(05:20):
Any type of loss there's so much grief.
But the more we talk about that easier is to have those conversations.
Given people permission to talk about it.
But don't sweep these conversations under the rug and for me, I didn't talk about it for spring months and it a way of being a way of me and a way of.
(05:42):
And it made made the situation works in my defense.
So I didn't know how to talk about it and how to even bring it up.
So I think like if you have a friend or a significant other or parent like as those conversations just just start like it could be a word from it and it may not even sound.
(06:02):
Like you mean I'll be able to form that full sentence, but just let people know where you're just say you're not okay.
Just say I'm not okay and I really don't even know if I can express it, but I need you to know that I'm not okay.
And then maybe that's all it takes. Maybe that's all it takes and then somebody who's hearing that receives it and they hold space for it and they say okay.
I get that you you're in this place and I get that you can't really articulate it right now because you're so overwhelmed.
(06:26):
So let me ask you some questions like maybe that's what happens.
Maybe that's the dialogue that happens and somebody all of a sudden asks the question.
Whatever that question is that unlocks everything.
And I just think it's this such incredible power in having these conversations because it is so isolating.
There's so many things that we go through we all go through them and we talked about some of them brief loss and that kind of thing but like parenting for instance like being a new parent like that's hella isolating like I remember having two little kids at home and I was like shit.
(06:58):
Like by myself every day Dave was traveling you're kind of isolated in your own world and it's only when you get out there to start talking to other moms just start talking to other dads and you realize like oh man like we're all struggling over the same thing is a freedom in that is a liberation in that and mental health works the same way because that all of a sudden maybe you come across somebody who's dealing with the same kind of thing that you're dealing with and maybe they're doing something a little different and you never tried it you don't know about the thing that they're doing.
(07:27):
And then all of a sudden you have a conversation you're like really think that worked for you you're kidding and then you internalize that and you're like well but work for them maybe try it and then that's like a it's like a domino effect I think and I think what was really powerful in the conversation is that you can actually see off from each other you see off those energy so let's say you're super down in the dumps but your friend is super energetic is happy and you can be the person.
(07:56):
I'll just use my self as an example but being in front of the same space as those people that energy like bounced back to me helped me kind of get out of my head a little bit and figure out wow something really is wrong and I kind of fix it and having podcasts like this and having resources like calmerier like the digital age there's a ton out there.
(08:20):
One of the things I started doing early on is instead of like physically writing down my thoughts is I would just record it to my phone because I was still I still had like 8000 thoughts going on on my head and I just I didn't know how to get it so just you know words on it into my phone I go back and listen to some of those conversations you were like what were you thinking.
(08:43):
But you know what but it's an outlet and I think however you get it out of your head whether you're meditating it out or you're talking it out or you're journaling it out whatever it is try the thing do the thing and what works for one may not work for all but that you you're not going to know what what else is out there to even try.
If you're stuck in your own head and you're not expressing the way you're feeling the people because you can have the conversations to begin with to find out.
(09:11):
That you're not alone to find out what else is out there to help you wait for me to just also some gratitude grateful that I have a place to sleep grateful that I have food to eat grateful that I have a room for my head being grateful and having gratitude and that's why conversations like this are all sort of important because you're grateful for the things that you have.
(09:32):
Look for this look at the things that you have don't look at some things just you don't just you can work towards all things.
Yeah, I'm glad you said that I'm really glad that you said that about gratitude because that's one of the exercises as a human like personally in my own personal practice.
That's one of the things that I've done for a very very long time when I get into a place we all get into a shitty mood and have a bad day or you've never seen me in a shitty mood have you think that.
(10:00):
You will give a time trust me but when that happens and it happens to everybody I actually do this very intentional practice of whether I think of my kids or I think of the fact that my 86 year old mom and I just went to Japan last year like she's knock on wood she's still here and doing great and I think about the things that are the most important to me and I express that gratitude for those things whether I do it in a journal or I say it to myself in my head or.
(10:29):
Whatever it is because here's the interesting thing about gratitude it's an underrated superpower when you have the ability to be grateful about something it cancels everything else out and I'm not talking about indefinitely but in an isolated moment when you take gratitude and you immerse yourself in that moment of gratitude you can't be sad it's like how you can't what is it you can't you can't sneeze with your eyes open.
(10:53):
I mean it's like that it's impossible to be down and sad and hopeless when you are in the process of feeling gratitude even for a minute or two and even if it's only for a few seconds like it's it's like baby steps but the other reason that these conversations are important is that we could actually save some of these life if you take that one minute I'm telling you also takes one minute to ask someone how they're doing.
(11:21):
Kindness goes a long way you have absolutely zero idea what's going on in somebody else's head and so if you're addicted to them they may be having the worst friggin day of their life just behind and so reminding people that you know kindness of compassion go a long way.
Yeah they do reminding people that it's okay to say the word suicide that it's okay that people are depressed but also giving people like tips or resources they can reach out to to get from that next second to that sweat it to that stay and that to me is why these conversations are important.
(11:57):
Step to your mental well being with calmery trusted online therapy platform that supports you through life's challenges connect with licensed therapists and reap the benefits of traditional therapy enhanced with digital tools whenever you need it visit calmery.com to get started.
Right because otherwise we're all just stuck in our own little endless thought loops and nothing new is coming into impact those thoughts and those feelings and then the depression or the anxiety or whatever the negativity is that you're feeling and you're trapped.
(12:26):
You're only free when you allow yourself to express those things and acknowledge like sin in it be vulnerable and and be like I'm terrible right now I'm not okay I don't know what to do I don't know where to turn yet I'm going to find help is people don't know you're hurting I mean I did like look no further than my own dad you know I always use my father as an example because you know for those for those who don't know my story I lost my father when I was 10 years old he died of what I was told is heart attack very suddenly and I did.
(12:55):
Not learn the truth of my father's death until I was 45 years old so for 35 years I thought he had died of a heart attack but he actually had taken his own life you wouldn't never have known that my father was struggling he was like one of those people you talk about all the time the people who are the extraverted they seem larger than life were super happy and driven and grounded and all the things that you would never suspect and that was my dad and it's because he kept it all hidden.
(13:24):
For a variety of reasons I'm sure it was 1978 and who the hell was talking about mental illness and not being okay nobody was talking about it so back then I you know I guess it was it made sense but nowadays you can't fix we don't know it's broken.
100% that's it like that's the that's it if we said nothing else more about it we get in the episode right there and say if we don't know it's broken we can't help you fix.
(13:48):
Well you know what I'm guilty of that because nobody I mean absolutely nobody knew how depressed I was until after I made that call 98 and yes maybe there were some signs or I know for sure there were signs because I've talked to another episode where when I was writing my book number one was super sorry.
Number two I've learned some things that other people should have picked up on but the only sign of times on me even open my mouth and I didn't do that until I top to 98 because I like to figure out what the hell was going on instead so like fast word to like November last year when things weren't so good anymore until I came into your life until you came into my life and the two years of therapy you're gonna have to therapy knowing that my voice matters and letting
(14:36):
people know exactly where I stood and like I told you before I couldn't hide my resting pitch race anymore so I once I started opening up it was absolutely freeing it was like a weighted x-ray blanket getting torn off my shoulders giving voice to suicide is huge.
And giving voice to awareness and giving voice to like things that you can do as a caregiver a friend about a solid like things to look out for and how you can help somebody like me.
(15:09):
Tell about holding space. I mean talk about this all the time that holding space is an art form but it's also unbelievably easy just a glorified way of saying listening to what's on somebody's mind.
Just let the person say what they need to say and validate it no matter what it sounds like what it seems like because what might seem impossible to someone going like going through it like when you're when you're in it and whatever it is is all around you and all consuming.
(15:37):
Somebody else might hear them be like really like that's what's got you twisted like that's your issue but it's all relative what's terrible for you might not be so terrible for me and vice versa but it's when we talk about it we attach words to it in names to it in feelings to these things that they become real and when you hold space for someone no matter what they say you just hold space for it you accept it you validate it you listen without judgment.
(16:05):
I mean can save somebody's life like that's why we talk about it because it can save somebody's life to you so I'm for those who don't know one of the things that I do in the world of crisis counselor with the Trevor project and Trevor project is a suicide and crisis hotline for at risk LGBTQ use age 13 to 24 and to choose a statistic and since you are both part of the queer community this is very relevant to us and anyone else who's listening from the queer community one singular person if you are a person who's strong.
(16:34):
And one singular person in your life is there to listen to you do you know that it reduces your risk of taking your own life by over 40% did not know that by having one person be there to listen to you so this is why we say what's on our minds now why we have the conversations.
(16:55):
And for me it's me taking on a brave new role also like I took all my pain and two and a half years of therapy and I turn it in to purpose I don't want anybody to ever feel as terrified and alone as I did my own journey because it's like 59 and a half when all the shit went down I didn't know how to do it now I have a voice and I want to give these conversations a voice so if you're feeling that way like how do you how do you approach that.
(17:24):
So how do you approach somebody my first lot was to call my name it just needed somebody to kind of knew what was going on in my in my ad and had a conversation.
Help me to go and have a conversation with my wife and that's just somebody I've been together with or at the time 20 years I was like that's a tough conversation to admit that you're broken.
(17:46):
Serifying I was absolutely broke I'm better I'm like not a thousand times better I still go to therapy but I still want to have this conversation so I keep open and honest about them and I'm having a city a people now now I don't hold back anymore.
Nobody should hold back like I think people to or are afraid of being the asshole who's always in a bad mood or always got something wrong or struggling with something like that no there are a lot of people out there who don't want to be a burden they don't want to be perceived as weak they don't want to be the one who's always got the issue but the fellow look just.
(18:22):
Just like let go of that right now because it's bullshit be whoever you are be however you feel because the way this is important the way that you feel right now is not the way that you're always going to feel and you you pointing at you right there you are you are not you are the perfect person to to validate that because you were at your lowest point in your life didn't see anyway around it and didn't see any.
(18:51):
And didn't see any way through it and didn't know how to help yourself and never imagined that there was another side to it you were like so in the weeds that you couldn't see anything except there was another side and it didn't emerge right away it wasn't like all of a sudden the party of the red scene you just cruise on through was like you are bushwhacking through it for a long time but the point is look forward motion is still forward motion it's like the marathoner who runs the six minute mile and the one who runs the 12 minute mile they're still going to get there they're going to get there.
(19:20):
They're still going to finish the same race is just a different pace that's what mental health is you know you're you're walking your own walk and you do it at your own pace and you know don't feel for me like I was ashamed of the way I felt I don't feel ashamed for the way they feel worse humans and mental illness don't joke around like you will come back and like keep you in the ass 47 times but it's all in how you approach it.
(19:49):
And being honest with yourself I think the one thing that helped me the most was to stop the negative talk to myself instead of calm myself mass or every day I got to a better place like I am a good person I you know you read what you so you've done all these you've got these amazing ass waves it's taking look and taking a little piece of this because that all builds up and you're like you know I am a good person I'm just my head is moving.
(20:17):
And then I'm going to take a look at the end of the day where all the work and progress it's that simple where all the work and progress number one number two we all have shit and number three nobody's perfect so when you start there which is kind of where every single one of us starts I don't tell accomplished we are I don't care where you live what you drive how much money is in the bank but none of those things matter none of those things matter mental health isn't equal opportunity kind of a situation yeah it is but it's true it doesn't discriminate.
(20:46):
Doesn't matter who you are and the most important thing is to focus as much on the fact that you're allowed to feel that way as that you're focusing on that there is another side of it you have to give yourself permission to sit in it everybody try so let's fix it fix it fix it let's find the find the root cause do the therapy take the pill have the treatment get to the other side of it and yeah okay that's great that's what everybody wants to do but the fact is it's like process and it doesn't happen overnight and forward motion is
(21:15):
still forward motion it's like five months to see all the way with where I was and it was a hard five months but as crazy as it's
pounds is I'm thankful that I went through it and I'm thankful for that little glimmer there's always a little glimmer listen to the world with
I'm here today because of that glimmer that's what why I ended up calling 98 things panic glimmer hope the things were going to get better and they did yeah look like speaking realistically it takes time takes
(21:47):
work takes effort but there is another side to it and and that's the thing that most people just don't want to see can't see when you're in the
thick of it and that's why talking about it with other people can help to flesh that out can help you to shift your mind set because when you're locked in your
own head space you're only hearing one voice when you start talking and having the conversations and asking the questions and and really
(22:13):
opening up then you realize I go okay it's not just me people have survived this kind of thing before how did you do it what did you
do where did you go what helped for you and I think it's just it kind of snowballs in a good way from there but we have to just do willing to accept all
sides of it and and part of it is sending it you know sending it and building a 3MID now and just be tied behind your
(22:38):
self listen we we're all messy just be kind to yourself yeah we just we all need to give ourselves I think a lot more grace than we do
because we deserve it we really do deserve it we're just human beings and we're fowlable and we're all trying to navigate the same kinds of things it only makes sense that we try and do it
leaning into each other for help and support otherwise we'd all be living on our own little planet by ourselves that's not how it works we're here for a reason together for a reason
(23:05):
I want to go live on your aim is through in the whole show for some people that need the whole show it did that I'm super excited I can't wait to like chat with you next week I know me too I kind of want to just keep going but we should probably stop and then come back
get some water and hydrate all right see y'all next week love you love you thanks for joining us on the survivors remember no matter how tough things feel you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are
(23:34):
you're not alone in this journey there's a community here and every step forward counts we're so grateful you took the time to listen and we hope you'll take one day at a time just know there's always more light ahead
thanks for being here friends just remember help is out there in so many different places so if you or someone you know is struggling please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me will be there to help
(23:55):
you can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental health resources tools and content at the help hub dot CEO just remember that help is always just a call or a click away we'll catch you next week in the meantime keep surviving
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com