#451 - Granger Smith on Writing About Almost Taking His Life In Book

Granger Smith (@Grangersmith) sat down with Bobby Bones to talk about why he chose to get vulnerable and write about almost taking his own life, recalling the night it almost happened, and why he didn't tell his wife about it until the book came out. He also shares what he has learned from tragedy and the calling he had to shift his career from a country artist and do Ministry. Granger also explained why he drove to meet a fan to have coffee and talk with them, opens up about how he'd feel if he died tonight, what it's like to go from playing concerts to delivering sermons and more! 

*TRIGGER WARNING: Death and Suicide Attempt*

Links to books:

LIKE A RIVER by Granger Smith (HERE)

UP TOWARD THE LIGHT by Granger Smith (HERE)

 

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Watch this Episode on Youtube

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
If I faced God today and he said, I give
your old life back, but you don't get anything that
you've gained from that to this stay forward, I would
say no.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Episode four fifty one with Granger Smith follow him everywhere
at Granger Smith, TikTok and Instagram. So first, musically, a
couple big hits. It's hard to we can't play clips anymore.
But Back wrote song oOoOO, I can't even do it.
This is my back wrote a good song.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
You got it.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
We used to sing that, dude like well part of
that in a big medley when the idiots were our
in our prime. You know, he's got a couple of books,
and I guess the Kid's book is the new one.
That's really what the focus is, and we get to
it later on. But Up Toward the Light tells an
inspiring story to bring a message of hope and strength

(00:58):
to children navigating laws and grief and a lot of
what we talk about. I want to say it dominates it,
but we talk about a lot the loss of his son. Yeah,
because when we talk about a lot of stuff in
this I really like Granger. Granger also works for the
same company now doing a radio show. I guess before
we come on.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, we lead right after him.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah right, Yeah, it's weird because his is the Overnight show,
so you but think it comes on way after us.
I mean it kind of leads into us in a
lot of places, you know, kind of took a hiatus,
maybe a forever break away from music and now mostly
just you know, giving his message of faith and his
story with his family and Earld Doubles. Junior still lives, right.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
He's still doing stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
YouTube panel, Yeah good.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
So I liked this. I like Granger a whole lot.
I thought that he was very vulnerable and very generous
with his cues and his a's and that's weird. Also,
before we start the we should do some kind of
trigger warning, right.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, because he goes into some pretty detailed details about
the passing of his son that even me, like listening
to him talk about it, I never heard it in
that amount of detail, but for some people who maybe.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
You're right, he does talk about like physic you're right.
Good trigger warning. I didn't think about that. Yeah, okay,
trigger warning. It does get difficult to listen to. But
for a specific reason.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, I think that's why we decided to leave it
in there because I think it's important to hear about
like his story, and it's a big part of his story,
but it's also could be difficult for.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Something to hear.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Good call but Granger Smith, Episode four point fifty one.
I hope you enjoyed this podcast. I like to start
the conversation with where we just left off. In personal life.
We're talking about biten fingernails because I lied to my
wife and said that I didn't lie and lie and lie.
I might have said, I'll lied, Okay, I did lie

(03:01):
to her. I lied about biting my fingernails because she
doesn't like me to bite my fingernails. So I said
I smashed it with a weight and so I got
a bad hangnail that ripped the hangnail out it bled.
She's like, oh, are you biting your fingernails? And I
was like no, I was left and weight baby trying
to get pumped for you. And she knows I like that.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
But why is that a thing? Why is biting your
nails a bad thing?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
To two parts? One, it's just gross because everything you
touch is now in your mouth. Meanka get yeah, and
you can't even really wash your hands under your nails.
Effect of work you can try. And then two, when
you bite your fingernails, the little hangnails could grow on
the side of them because you're starts to grow back,
and it's just really painful and you have to rip

(03:44):
them out and that hurts, or you can let it
grow and it hurts, and it's just overall not a
good deal. I like it though, that's my favorite. I've
had the list hobbies as of today, biting my fingernails
top three.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
So I don't think those two negative reasons though, outweigh.
If it's your something.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
You passionate about it, I think about starting a foundation
for nell bitters everywhere I'm thinks. I'm thinking about making
a move like you did and leaving all this to
go and work with nel biters and really pump pump
that message. Yeah, be impactful about nel biting.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, it just give out hand sanitizer as part of
the thing.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, I shouldn't do it, because again it's stupid. And
I did. The tasty stuff, the bad taste you put
on it, and you like put it on your fingernails.
It's like Neil polished but it's clear, but it tastes
so bad. But then I just developed a strategy so
often do of biting without tasting.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
So I walked in here today and had no idea.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
That this was a thing, me doing a show.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well, no, no, not that that biting a nail, biting
nails was such a thing that there were remedies that
people will sell. Yeah, so that so that you could
not do something that you actually don't mind doing. I
love it, man, it's I don't get it. I don't
understand that.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I would say, mostly because of the health ramifications. If
you have a lot of journals and you put in
your mouth and young kids that that's usually used for
young young kids, the taste thing or me?

Speaker 1 (05:07):
So, could you hold like a convention and talk about.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Hold I go on schedule for next week and everyone
a lot of people would show up Vancouver who was
sold out? All nail biters that you really?

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Could you do? Could you do it? Oh?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
I'll mean disgusting. I don't want to hang out with
el biters.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
They're gross. Evidently enough people buy the nail polish.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
And nail biters are losers. Man, to be with a loser, Uh,
that's me. That's mean. How you been buddy? Really, it's
awesome to see you know, what's funny about doing I
don't even let you answer the question. But what's funny
is like I like you so much and like respect
what you do and how you do it, and also
consider you. Like we don't get to hang out enough
to be friend friends, but like a buddy friend. Which

(05:46):
is that next level that I feel comfortable when you
come over that it's like, oh cool, I get to
go do this and not have to worry about it
if I like the person or thank you man or
And you know this because with your new career you
got a couple of them. There are times where I
feel like I have to be extremely on just in
case because I don't know the skill set of the

(06:09):
other person or how they feel. I don't have to
do that with you, which means I can even take
long breaths.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
M dude, that's a compliment. Thank you?

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah it really if you could feel I honestly feel
that way about you.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, that's cool, thank you.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
So how have you been?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Honestly what? I'm in a good place, better than I deserve,
I should say.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Is that a thing that you say?

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Now?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Because I had a coach that would always say how's
it going? They always go better than I deserve? Do
you really feel better than you deserve? I?

Speaker 1 (06:41):
First of all, it is a thing because it's a
great conversation starter. What do you mean by that? What?
What do you deserve? You know?

Speaker 2 (06:49):
I think you might have to know good though. If
you say that, like if feel like better than I deserve,
I'm like, I wonder what he stole?

Speaker 1 (06:53):
So yes, so it could be just a thing that
you say. It is a great conversation starter alluding to, well,
what is it that you deserve? But on top of that,
I am just actually in a good place. I really am.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Was there a place we'll call it your live stock
market because we've seen each other a couple of times since,
and I don't feel like you've retired. I feel like
in this world of messaging whatever it is, sure, music,
Jesus speaking, singing, sports, whatever, the messaging is like, it's

(07:31):
all a version of that. And where I do a
radio show or a podcast, or I do a sports show,
we shoot a sports like TV show. But it's all
the same, even though it's not. And it's all fulfilling
to me in different ways. And there are seasons where
things are way more fulfilling to me than others, but
there is now a fluidity to if you're brave enough
to go try it, you might just be good at

(07:53):
it and get to do it all. And that is
something that I've seen you really thrive at because obviously
you have massive success in me music, and I don't
feel as a fan like you've stepped away. Even though
you're in the weeds, You're not ten thousand feet above
it like I am. You may feel that way because
you're not maybe writing as much, performing as much, but
your music always lives, so I can go to it anytime.

(08:16):
It's like when Tom Petty dies, for example, he hasn't
died to me. I didn't. I don't know Tom Petty.
Sure he's still alive to me. Granger Smith, like the
music artist I really enjoy, is still living just as
he was to me. But now you've decided to focus
a lot of other energy on a lot of other things.
And so as the stock market of life seasons ago,

(08:37):
did it go down at all after you decided to
kind of leave in your mind a lot of your
energy from music and put it somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
The stock market as me as a product, not specifically music,
because you're just talking about.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Just you as a person. Do you feel like you
took it down, you went down and questioned what you
were doing, or if you could lose it all? Or
did he get worse for you emotionally scary?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Even, Yeah, I get it. I live in a place now.
It's funny. I was just having this conversation on the
way here, literally that if I died tonight in my sleep,
it would be enough. Today would have been enough. And
I didn't live in that world. For all of my

(09:23):
music career and probably most of my life on top
of that, it was always it's not enough yet. I
haven't gotten it yet. I'm still searching forward. I'm pushing
forward and I'm almost got it. I've got all this stuff,
but I want a little bit more and I don't
have that at all now. So does that mean the
stock market of my life has gone down? Probably? But

(09:43):
I think, but I think I like it to be down.
That's think. That's kind of the.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Point, which which then I think it's up.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, the way however you look at it, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Meaning I would judge the stock market of my life
in the fulfillment that I have, And sometimes my fulfillment
comes from things that I shouldn't be fulfilled. I shouldn't
chase to be fulfilled by Yeah, those things that are
very professional, non meaningful, ego based, award based, databased, short term,

(10:14):
goal based, and at times, but like, I've been married
now a couple of years, and it's been difficult for
me at times because I was never with another person.
I don't I have the emotional and I don't even
mean this is a joke, but the emotional knowledge of
like it probably not like a fourteen year old because
I never it was just me, never had to be

(10:35):
in an intimate relationship with anybody. And it's been very hard.
And there are some of the things that I thought
were so important. I don't put as much energy into
going after those. I still do. I still care about
a lot of things, but there's been a shift in
my value system a bit because now I have another
person and I'm learning how important that is and how
hard If I work at that, the payoffs are even bigger.

(10:57):
So I could go well personally, I think it's up. Professionally,
maybe not as high as I would be, but as
long as I'm fulfilled, that's my stock market up. That
all comes to what I'm fulfilled with because I am
not the place where I know with what I was chasing,
I'm never going to be satisfied. And that's not a

(11:17):
good place to be because it and I'm still there
in ways, but it didn't matter, it doesn't matter. I'm
not going to be that monster it's been to me
forever is never going to be full And at least
I can acknowledge that now that there's nothing I can
do professionally that's going to make me go, I feel complete. Yeah,
and that's that's that's nice to admit. But it's almost

(11:39):
like a little like am I am I quitting or
giving up? Or am I just maturing?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah? And that's the that's the American culture, that American
dream that's just so ingrained in us. It goes, don't quit,
don't give up, keep going, keep pushing forward. Amazing, that's
amazing that we have that. You know that that's a
gift that we have that kind of drive And that's
really what settled the West was that mentality. But at

(12:07):
what level does that become dangerous? And is that outstride
or contentment? And I think that that's kind of a
word that we're talking about here, is can you be great?
You drive, you push forward, you chase, but can you
be content with what you have? Now? That's the question.
If the answers yes, then continue to chase and drive.

(12:28):
If the answers know, then you need to pull back
and start releasing some things.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
And my answer is no, but it's not no anymore.
There's a difference to me because there's a bit because
of my wife. There's a bit of growth in realizing
that there are other priorities than those extremely fleeting entertainment
or chasing a love that is not real through people

(12:54):
I don't really know, just so I feel like I've
accomplished something, because I feel like I've never accomplished anything again.
That thing never gets fed or briefly and then it's
hungry again. And I've been able to learn through her
that the things sometimes that maybe I didn't even know
existed with that are valued, like quality time, like that's
there's that's currency, that's that's real, substantive, like the ability

(13:21):
to have that and it go well means way more
than I thought it would. So I've been able to
shift a little bit of that. I just need to
succeed to that, not all to that, and I wonder
with my version of this have and you say you
could die tonight, and I hope that doesn't happen. But have
you shifted a bit of your Okay, I gotta do
this professionally too. Now I'm doing something that creates a

(13:46):
healthy contentment and fulfillment and me and I feel better
because of it.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, consolidating what I do to all the
way down to the things that matter, the things that
are meaningful to me.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Things are now, how about that? Yeah, because I'm sure
they're different than what that mattered five years ago to ye,
what matters now to you that maybe didn't matter as
much five years ago.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Now I'm able to speak into lives and add an
idea of hope in a world that a lot of
people don't have any and so they chase other things
to try to replace it. So if I can come
in on a personal level, And you know, this is crazy,

(14:30):
because I'm coming from a world where the more people
I talk to, the better. So it's talk to a
lot of people with a small, vague message, or talk
to one person with a very impactful, deep message for
a long period of time. And I go to bed
that night feeling fulfilled from one one coffee I had.

(14:51):
I had coffee with a guy last week who lost
his son. I live in Austin, he lives in Dallas.
He's like, I'll do anything. I'm forty four days into this.
I need to talk to you. I need I need
to have coffee. So I'm looking at my schedule like
I don't know the guy. It doesn't really make sense,
but I know this is this is why I'm here.

(15:12):
I need to be open to stuff like this. So
I say, yeah, Tuesday, will meet. He drives to temple.
We meet.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
What made you say yes? I want to get to
the story, But what made you say yes? Other than
just going I just need to do it? What because
you thought about it. It's probably harder to do it
than not do it. Why do you say yes to that?

Speaker 1 (15:29):
I said yes because I've done it enough times to
know that there is more fulfillment in that than whatever
the rat race thing I was supposed to be doing
on a Tuesday. So I meet the guy and we
set this coffee shop for four hours and I talked
for about twenty minutes out of the flour and listened
the rest of the times. He's just unpacking unpacking unpacking,

(15:52):
and then but the times I was able to speak,
the short time I could, I knew things to say
that would impact him in a way that on his
drive back to Dallas, I know he's gonna be thinking
about it. And then I leave there and I'm like,
I've missed out on whatever else I was doing today.
But that one guy that actually matters. I don't know
why I can't articulate what you know in a cosmic way,

(16:16):
why this one conversation mattered than me getting on a
podcast and talking to thousands and tens of thousands, But
it just.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Did, probably the promised intimacy because you're actually there seeing
something to that the effect of the person, and the
same way you could play music and watch people react
and have a great night as well. But again, you're right,
it's a big, vague, broad message for a lot, or
a nuanced specific message for one. And it's pretty cool

(16:48):
to see how that has changed inside of you. I
would imagine at some point you still like the other
because I watch you speak sometimes what you do. Yeah,
and yeah, it's definitely a specific ish message, but and
you're definitely trying to affect people that are watching you.
But it has to be tailored a bit more generically

(17:11):
than if you're just talking to a person across from you.
When you speak, to speak or your church, your preacher, whatever,
how are you defining do you do sermons? Would you
go yours a sermon?

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, it's mixed like sometimes it's a church like literally
this this coming Sunday is a sermon, Okay, Sunday morning,
but it's not always. Sometimes it's a youth conference or whatever.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
When you speak and you leave that, what is that
feeling like? Because you haven't set across from them and
got their specific nuance needs a reaction, But you still
just went and took your message and your feelings and
were vulnerable and shared to people who are needing and wanting.
That described the two, The difference between the.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Two similar to concerts music. I could walk off from
the message and and think, man, I don't know if
I don't know if I did, I don't know if
that mattered at all. I think that might have been horrible.
And then there's other times I walk off and go
I think I nailed it. I think I nailed that.
It's interesting that I get the it's I get the

(18:15):
same type of feeling. But but I do know that
the sword is sharper with the message that I'm giving
now as opposed to just a more generic I'm just
going to play a concert and make you smile, which
is great. It's great. I always thought of myself as
being able to make people take an emotional journey three
minutes at a time. But what I what I know

(18:37):
now is where that the goal is to really affect
people on an intimate level, so that if they are
hurting past the point of I don't even want to
live anymore, then this could affect that person in a
positive way.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
And I think all are needed, and I don't think
one's more important than the other. And I don't think
you're even saying that I'm saying, I'm not. You're you're right,
and I don't want to be a misconstrue. What you're
saying is I don't believe that your message, and most
people will hear that. But I think all are needed,
and sometimes to be better at being able to have
empathy or understanding that comes with extreme difficulty. Like any

(19:15):
of the empathetic skills that I have, any of the
understanding that I have that I can help with has
always come through. It's really crappy stuff happening, and even
with you know like a river the book and your
tattoo says River, and you know your son and how

(19:38):
that tragically changed your life and your whole family's life,
And you would never wish that on anyone. The tools
and the skills and the empathy that you gained from that,
that you could go back, you'd never want to have
to gain those if you were to ask, No, you

(20:00):
don't want to gain it. You don't want It's terribly tragic.
But what it seems to me again, from ten thousand
feet up, you've taken those that skill set and now
you're using it. Specifically the guy you met with for coffee.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
You know what I told that guy in the brief time,
the twenty minutes. I told you that I was going
to say only a few things that would matter, And
I told him something that's only been a recent thought
in my mind that i've worked through just recently, and
I've never said this in a public setting, and I
haven't fully unpacked it yet. But the truth is this,

(20:40):
if I faced God today and he said, I give
you River back, I give you your old life back,
but you don't get anything that you've gained from that
to this day forward. Right, you don't get any of that,
You just get River and your old life. I would say, no,
take I can't. I can't go back there even to

(21:03):
have River back, because I was broken so much that
the new growth that came from that death really from me.
I'm not even I'm not. I'm talking about just me.
I'm a new, different person and I can't go back
into that old self again because I just see things differently.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Now, Hank Tight, the Bobby cast will be right back
and we're back on the Bobby Cast doing it.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
In that example of retrospectively, if let's say that was
positioned to you beforehand, and it was you're gonna gain
all these empathetic you're gonna be able to help, but
you probably pick a different answer.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, that's impossible. I would say no, absolutely no, Like
I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
But it took real tragedy and for you to go
through it, never be all the way through it, never
like it's it's never going to be easy. Yeah, it's
never going to be. But to spend so much of
your time now dedicated to helping others who have been
in similar situations or just in broadly difficult times. I

(22:28):
don't think myself included. I couldn't, I wouldn't couldn't do that,
Like I and you gave up a lot to do that,
And I think that is a it's a very noble
thing to do where you're not asking for the praise.
But it's like if I sit here and don't praise you,
I would and praise you as just like I really
appreciate you, Like I would feel like I wasn't being

(22:50):
honest while I was talking to you.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, and I and I and I appreciate that. And
at the same time I was also I'm so stubborn
that it's like that's what it took, no for sure
for me to finally be broken.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
It took also gotta be real stubborn to make it
in the first time in your first career. Like if
you're not nuts, you don't do a nuts job and
not make it. If you're not nuts, you got to
have a screw loose. It's gotta be the right screw.
You gotta have a screw loos to even go and
try to be an artist, a country music artist, much
less one that's going to find success once much less
one's gonna find success in the like a niche ish

(23:24):
part of country music, which is the Texas scene, and
then be smart enough to strategize how do I turn
this into a national thing while not being turning off
your old like you were able to walk this road professionally,
really unlike any other artist I've seen, because there's so
many people that come from where you come from musically
that when they do it, they get turned on pretty

(23:44):
hard because people go, yeah, oh, it's like the Australia
top poppy syndrome. Oh yeah, you're a little Oh you're
too tall, We're gonna cut you down. You're now not
one of us anymore.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Huh yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
In that version that season for you, when you were
just really killing it doing country music like you're one
of the only guys I really didn't feel that from
from the Texas red dirt whatever you want to call it,
that scene, and then you didn't have whatever the Nashville
version is going, this guy thinks he's better than us,
and he's going to come and try to be a

(24:15):
Texas artist, like you were able to navigate all that
so perfectly. That took real stubbornness because every step of
the way was met with I probably wouldn't do it
this way. No one's really done it like this before.
While you're doing comedy and comedy music, and you've taken

(24:35):
that stubbornness and you've put it here and it's a
beautiful thing as long as it doesn't make you mentally unhealthy.
Sure that it makes me mentally unhealthy at times, but
I found what does being stubborn? Absolutely I'll commit to
something and I know I'm wrong at times, and it's like,
I'm not going to quit because I don't like to

(24:58):
cut my losses, even though I feel at times like it's, uh,
probably the best thing to do, because I need to
prove to either like the kid version of me or
like an adult version of somebody who was not good
to me as a kid who's not even around anymore.
But without that stubbornness and having a bit of scrutlois,
I wouldn't made it here. But I've seen you take

(25:19):
that that stubbornness. It's now in a different place and
it's a different stubbornness. And the fact that you can say,
and I'm kind of moved by this, that if you
were good today, you'd be good. I can't believe that
because that kind of person. To be an artist, you
got to be like it's it's all irrational. Everything's irrational
to think you can be an artist. People are gonna
pay money and stream your stuff and stream your music,

(25:41):
and that they should come to your show and they
should get a sitter and they should try to think
you're good enough that people. That's irrational, it is, and
you gotta be nuts to think you can do that,
and you did it.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
And literally to be mad at them if they don't.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Or to be mad at yourself because they didn't. Yeah. Yeah,
but now you've taken that stubborness and you've put it
in a way it's actually changing lives, and it's I
wonder how long you can do it until you start
to be like I almost did. I did news for

(26:16):
like early on, I did some TV news stuff and
I couldn't be around the sadness all the time. I
was strong enough and it kept doing comedy and I
was doing TV. I didn't have it. I didn't have
the guts for it. Didn't have And what you're doing
a lot of what you're doing isn't flowers and candy. Yeah,
and are you going to be stubborn? And how long
until you're you're like, I want to go back and

(26:37):
do some music again. You know how, when when does
the stubbornness here? Will you let that stubbornness go back
there a little bit?

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, it's framed. You framed it well because stubbornness would
be the one thing that would make me turn back again.
But I could see to right here on the show
and say to tell you with confidence, as far as
I know, I cannot see myself being an artist again.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
But will you be so stubborn because you said that
you won't allow it even though you want it.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
But yeah, the reason you framed it that way is
because stubborn people do stubborn things. But as I sider
on this couch today, I say, I just can't foresee
going back in a place where I'm needing the attention
so much that and that's really what it is. As
an artist. I need people to love me on a

(27:29):
level that they want to hire the babysitter and leave
everything behind and stream my music and come to the concert.
I need that otherwise I'm not succeeding. And as I
recognize that, and I have to be consistent. When I
say that I need to be consistent with writing books
that I feel the same way. If I write a book,
I can't expect a certain amount of people to buy it.
Otherwise that's an inconsistency in my argument here. So I

(27:52):
need to say I'm writing books for the one. Can
I really live up to that? That's difficult, but that's
the ar Can I write a book and know that
I'm going to put all this effort just so one
life is changed for the better because of it, Because
that's a good goal.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
But it's a mass A book's a mass product though
if it books like like you're speaking to a crowd.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
So then you've got publishers involved, and you've got a
certain amount that you that they need to sell to
make an overhead. So can I be consistent and go,
you guys, do what you got to do. But I'm
out of the rat race. I'm going to do this
for the one. Now I'm humans. I don't know. I
don't totally know the answer to I don't know if
I could consistently go, it's only about one, It's only

(28:35):
about one. But as I said here today, I could
tell you with confidence that I don't want to go
back to the music business.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Do you have enough money to do this and do
passion and keep the same lifestyle that you've built, So.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
That's a money thing. Is a new question, and it's
a good thing to introduce into this conversation because that's
another thing I have to be consistent with with my
contentment in today has to be so financial contentment today
without worrying about is this sustainable? I could be responsible
about that and go, well, can we pay bills? That's irresponsible,

(29:09):
But is a lifestyle sustainable? Then I have to go
maybe not, and that's probably okay.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Have you had to have that conversation with your wife
or most importantly before you have that with yourself at
a level where you really spend time thinking about it.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I have myself for sure. I think about it all
the time because the more I give up with a lifestyle,
I don't feel any worse about it. In fact, I
feel more free. It's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Counteretitive, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
And so amber Man just, by the grace of God,
she's just she doesn't need a lot, thankfully, but it
would be very difficult if she did.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
What about the platform you've created. Let's say you do
this for a while and you're changing lives, but you're
becoming a little less famous. There's a little less shined.
Great because now I think people attach themselves to you
because of who you are, what you do, and how
you say it. But I think they give you a

(30:33):
chance a lot of times because you're freaking grange Er Smith,
your celebrity in their mind. The longer you do this
and you focus on what is fulfilling to you and
matters to you, that platform does not stay as tall

(30:53):
as it was, which then could affect even the amount
of people that you're able to closely change.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Have you had that?

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah? And I think about it. Yeah. It's interesting because
I've been doing a lot of mission work in the
past past a few years. I've been able to travel
to a lot of remote places, for instance, like the
mountains of Cuba. And when I go into the mountains
of Cuba, no one knows Granger Smith, no one cares.

(31:23):
I'm just one member of a small team that's going
into the mountains to bring medicine to children and to
give a message of hope about Jesus. So when I
go in there, when I leave there, I crave it.
I'm like, that was no one knew about country music,
or even river or anything about me. I was just

(31:46):
a guy with a message. And because of that, that's
the only really data point I have on what would
it be like for no one to know you? But
just from that alone, I'm like, that's pretty cool, just
to be a part of the team. No, no greater
or lesser.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
You know why it's cool though, because it's not normal.
Right now, Okay comes a lot more normal.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Okay, I would say the life of Okay. Let me
look at it this way. As I was in country music,
I would always look at the older guys and go,
that's like, that's the trajectory. You could either go to
the to this guy, or you could be this guy,
or you could be this guy. But but all of
them are kind of you know the guy, the nineties

(32:28):
country guys. You could see him at festivals, you know,
at the three o'clock spot, And I would think about
that a lot, like which one of those guys am
I going? Am I going to be? Now? I look
at a little church and a pastor, I say, little,
you know, anywhere between one hundred to a thousand, and
he's got it's just one shepherd and his other his

(32:50):
other pastors that work there and his flock. And I
see those guys, and now that's that's kind of where
I look now, whether or not it's an author pastor
that's written a lot of book and travels, or he
has no popularity and he just has a little church
and he travels the world that when he can. And
I'm like, Okay, I see that, and I go, okay,

(33:13):
that that feels like home.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
So you can see that and go if that's it,
that's cool. Yeah, that's man's that's extremely temporarily very healthy
of you. It is. I'm not saying it's not always
going to be sure, but I know I change all
the time with what's.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
A good argument that you're making, Like, well you think
that now, talk to me and tend you talk to
me in twenty years. That's a good argument you're making.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
My issue within myself has always been in my manager,
someone that I talk with a lot, Corn Capshaw. Him
and I have spoken a lot about platform and giving,
and I would feel like if I did just went
and did more unsoldish things. I've been a very selfish

(34:01):
person and not in the way of like I need
to be me, me me, but like everything's always been
I'm an artist in a different way product and it's
always how can I make the product better? How can
I sharpen it? What do I got to take care
of here? So it's been very I'm the sun in
the heliocentric universe. I felt that way for a long time.
And also I didn't have a family, and so I
was even as a kid I grew up, it was

(34:23):
just me surviving. And so what if I was a
little less selfish and I took thirty percent of the
time forty percent of the time and didn't do as
much artist ry whatever you call it, and did more
of let'll just call it general giving. And the conversation
that I had with Korn, who was given so much,

(34:43):
and he referenced somebody that's very famous that he has
worked with, and he said, it's gonna have to be
what fulfills you either way, because there's no line, there's
no right answer for this. But if you lose your platform,
there is the possibility you actually lose the ability to
give as much as you want to give, and you
have to find that line of if you decide to

(35:08):
take eighty percent of your time and go and give
and go and do things, well, that's eighty percent of
the time that you're not able to sustain what people
even care for you about, so you can give more.
And I think my struggle has been finding that line.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
So the question is it becomes is it a heart
issue or an impact issue, because if you're trying to
it can be both. It can be both, it can
be both, but it always starts with the heart, not
the impact. So you know, for instance, when Jesus was
watching the people come on and tie and give all
the money and all these all the people at all

(35:40):
this money and they're given, and he's looking at he's
with the disciples, and that one lady comes in with
two small copper coins and he says, you see that
woman gave all that she had. That is from the heart.
That's what matters. And so it's interesting to think about
that because we you and I both will think bigger platform,

(36:01):
bigger impact, bigger help affect more people, fact more people
help the world. But when I've gone and experienced you know,
the like a trip to Cuba, like I said, and
I'm just impacting in a very small way, but on
a personal level, I my heart is much more enlarged
by doing that. Interestingly enough, as opposed to let's raise

(36:23):
as much money as we can and give a billion
dollars to starving kids in India. There's a disconnection there,
and that's something that I still want to unpack. But
it's it's interesting to think, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
It feels like you're closer to your line than I
am mine because I can't find mine right now. Like
I don't know, because I want to do a lot
of things and help a lot of people, but I
don't want to lose my ability to have that line
to get to them. And I don't know what it is.
I can't really I'm still searching for my line.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Well so partly. And this is what I had to
learn after losing riv is I don't I don't get
to decide what happens in my life. There's something out there,
there's something else that's I can't control it all. And
so when I thought I had the wife and the
three kids and everything was great, and then and then

(37:16):
all that falls apart. That's a that's a slap in
the face that wait a minute, you mean, I don't
have control over everything, and so to think that I
need to plan because I need to have control over
my giving and my philanthropy and my in my books,
and I need to control that and my and the

(37:37):
money that we have to live on, or do I
live day to day and go, I'm going to give
my heart today and trust that there is there's something
else that's that's driving everything and not me.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
And theory that sounds awesome, well if it is me.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
So to test the theory, we have to see how
do how do we experience that in life? So your
experience so far, what you've just what you've said is
that when you do try to make a big splash
and give, you feel like there's something.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Else, something a little more personal. But I still want
to reach a lot of people, and there's a threshold,
but I don't. I don't know where it is. I
can't find it right now.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
What do you love to do when as far as giving.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Back, it's very selfish? No, no, no, But my love
to give back is very selfish, okay, And and that
I only really understand stuff that's happened to me. So
food insecurity okay, sure, But I don't for the most
part see those people, right, But I know what it
was like for people that didn't see me, and when
they gave us food, it changed my life. So I

(38:48):
don't think I need to be there because they weren't
always there for me.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
What is the thing that you do to fulfill that
desire for the needy?

Speaker 2 (38:58):
That one would be a financial Okay, yes, great, So.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
The challenge would be, let's go to Cambodia and go
in a slum when instead of a lot of money,
we have a meal. We go to find a family
that needs a meal. Maybe that's the disconnect you're talking about.
Then maybe that's the gray area.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Maybe like I've been to Haiti and done, you know,
and and you know, we we built a freaking orphanage
over there, you know. But I wasn't an orphan and
it felt good to know I help people, but there
wasn't a personal like it's super personal, like I know
what that feels like. So therefore I feel selfish because
I'm like, what why am I?

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Like?

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Why can't I like help birds or something? Because I
wish I just had something in me that was like
I just want to help something that's not I think
I'm just trying to fix young me. I think that's
what like, I'm working inside of a time machine and
I'm trying to be trying to get to a younger
version of me and be there in that way that

(40:05):
people were there for me. A hospital like work a
lot with Saint Jude. I was in the hospital as
a kid a bunch okay, didn't have cancer, but without
people helping it just wouldn't. That church being there and
bringing mells and and Saint Jude is a natural thing

(40:26):
to walk into here. However, it's been a different level
with me and us because of my experience of being
in a hospital, as in the hospital as a kid
and depending on others, which is what that hospital does.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Now.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
I do get to meet different patients, but again it's
that doesn't feel very personal, except I guess the personal
thing is that it's I. That's why I say it selfish,
I feel like I'm helping me even though it's not
really me.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
What were you missing? What was the young version of
you missing during those times that now you're trying to.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Fill Generally, probably I mean stability, love, and it's you know,
I didn't know my dad mom was an adict, so
it's kind of just by myself mostly not physically always,
but it was. It was definitely emotionally like I was.
It was very alone. We also didn't have money. So

(41:20):
if it weren't for people like helping out food like
I mentioned, like I needed that school supplies like that
wouldn't have happened. So that's what I try to do.
And a lot of times I just feel like I
can fix it in a lot of ways with just
we make more money, so I can help raise more
money or give more money. But then there's this like

(41:42):
a personal connection that's not quite there.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Do you go to Arkansas a lot? Do you do
you ever find kids where you go? That's that was me.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Oh yeah, and I help them as much as I
can immediately with what, uh, well money, here's just money,
here's here to take money.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
How do you feel when you do that, like.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
I need to do it more? Never good, but like
I need like it's still not.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Enough, Like it's not enough. Yeah. Interesting, How do you feel.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
After the coffee and you talk for twenty minutes? He
talked for almost four hours, which is the purpose of it, right, Yeah,
how I mean, what does that feel? Did you do
you feel like I just did enough, or that's inspired
me to do more like this, to give up more
tuesdays on my calendars packed for situations like this.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
How do you feel over time? That's that's definitely changed
because coming right out of being an artist, it was like,
you know, it's hyper sensitive to my schedule and very
aware of the rat race and you know, making the
big impact. And I think I learned that the those
those type of conversations, I was starting to leave them

(43:04):
more and more saying that was enough. I did what
I needed to do today, and if I don't wake
up in the morning today was enough. That was I
didn't just wake up and start thinking that. But I
feel that more than I do when I go speak.
In fact, it's crazy because I'll go speak at a
youth conference and a bunch of kids everywhere, and I'll

(43:27):
leave and go was it enough? I don't know. There's
a disconnection, there's a personal disconnection.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Did you what's your parents situation? Are they alive or
were they together?

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Dad? They were together lost at in twenty fourteen, older
fifty or sixty one.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
So too young but old enough for you to have
a full life with them?

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, were they loving? And supportive to you. Yes, so
you have that language.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
That you learned.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Sorry, we had to show last on my voices. Looky,
I don't really have that length. Like the personal thing.
I'm like, I'm not good. I can do it on
stage in front of thousands of people. Well, then, like,
I don't think I could have this conversation if we
didn't have Mike's in front of us. M which is weird.

(44:25):
I don't think I would be vulnerable enough. But because
this is a show, I'm not doing a show, but
it is a show, so it's not real. So I
would have trouble sitting with a guy for four hours
going I feel you, I understand you, let me help you.

(44:47):
Because I don't know. I couldn't communicate that we do
this got it? And I think that's probably where a
little bit of my disconnect comes. I don't skilled at
I think it's been a learning part of my marriage
is that communication. Like I said, I'm like fourteen, like

(45:09):
a teenager, I'm not ten anymore, which I was when
we got married. That did not have the skills loved
or had no skills and being intimate. And I'm not
talking about like sex. I'm talking about like two people. Yeah,
and maybe my development here helps me there, And that's

(45:29):
so great.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
So how far have you come since you got married?
Been in out ten miles? So that what you're saying
is with experience, with practice, that that personal connection gets
easier and grows with practice.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
But also, yes, and we're doing it wrong because that's
where I learn what's trying to learn anything? Really? But
it's like when we I used to think every fight
we got into, we're about to get divorced. Yeah, yeah,
because I've never been in a fight. I was never
with anybody. And now I've realized that the fights that

(46:08):
we get into are actually like classes and like learning
each other more. We tend to not get into that
same exact fight again. Sometimes I have, you know, have
biting my fingernails. That's not a fight, but she's like,
stop biting your fingernails. But there are like fundamental ones
that it's taken that really uncomfortable situation for me to

(46:33):
learn and to get better at and then to communicate
the next time in a more effective way. And I
think that's how I've traveled these yeah, these miles. Now professionally,
I'm I'm I'm I'm a Methuselah. Sure what, Yeah, Like
I've been through I've been through it all, done bad contracts.

(46:54):
I've accomplished things that I didn't think I was accomplished.
I've not accomplished things I've written, I've done I could act,
So I have that I've done a ton and I'm
very educated and I can help people and I feel good.
I guess it for three hours to get people advice,
but when it and I think that's where I'm missing
my my line. But I feel okay about that. I'm

(47:16):
getting there because I'm actually getting better at on a
more micro level here. Then that's the only way I
would have start.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
You know that a big difference between me now and
me ten years ago is one of the I guess
one of the many reasons is I'll see a guy
like in the parking lot and he'll go, hey, Granger, yeah,
and I'll see it on his face. I know something's
going on. Hey man, I talked to you just for
a second. Man, I'm really going through something. I lost

(47:47):
this or that I don't know what to do. And
you're the only guy that I like to listen to.
That the only guy I could hear and this this
is the difference. I'll go, we'll talk for a little bit,
I'll get a little bit of a read on him.
I'll pull up my phone, pull up the context page
and say, put your number in here, let's talk. Man.

(48:08):
That is so far from the I would so I
would hold my number. I wouldn't give my number out.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
I'd be so worried about my personal space and like
my time. And now I'm like, hey, man, call me.
And it's really stepping off of a ledge for me
to say that. But the more and more I do it,
I get used to it. And surprisingly, for the most part,
people respect that. If I give them my phone and
say write your contact in or I'll text you, they're

(48:36):
pretty respectful. I don't think I have anyone that has
been disrespectful of that. But it has been interesting to build.
I have a lot of people that kind of build
these little relationships just from texting. It's interesting.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
When you're writing, and I haven't looked at a single, No,
I haven't even I don't know any I haven't looked
at a single even worry about it. But my question
is because again I feel like I can just talk
to you about whatever, and I don't have like tiptoe
around the line, right sure, otherwise I want to be like,
how about your money? Like I really feel like I
can disask that, because I think people wonder that when
you write, and not so much like up toward the light,

(49:24):
which we can get to it. But when you write
like a River, it's very it's extremely at times personal,
and you have to re refeel things and sometimes discover
things that you didn't feel the first time. Yeah, or
at least not fully because it was so painful that
you're not you can't take it all in all at once.
It's like a fire hose coming at you when you
write a book like like a River, and you have

(49:48):
to re experience some of the things by writing about
it or even thinking about if you're going to write
it about it or not. How difficult was that to
kind of travel back through and try to communicate properly

(50:12):
because you've had a little distance from it. It still sucks,
but now you not just feeling, You've got to feel
it and communicate it and yet still take yourself through
it again. So you can't communicate it.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
When I first was kind of putting together the outline
for it, I realized early on, this is going to
be more than I thought, because the first literally the
first chapter is we lose River, and then I've got
a bunch of I've got a bunch more chapters, and
it's all the aftermath. Really, the book is really the
aftermath of losing him. And as I was doing the outline,

(50:49):
and this is this chapter, then i'll say this, i'll
say this, I'll say this, and I completed it, and
I knew there was a piece I was intentionally missing
because I just didn't want to go there, and it
was the time when I was, you know, almost killed
myself suicide. But the story wasn't complete without it. So

(51:09):
at some level I was like, my wife didn't know
about it, no one knew about it. It's like it
needs to be a chapter because this part doesn't make
sense down here without the connector. And the connector was
the dark night that I had, and so going there
was something. And then not only going there, but then
I called Amber and I told her I got to

(51:32):
tell you. I literally waited till the book proposal was done,
and they're going to pitch it to publishers. And the
book proposal had a chapter summaries, and as it was
going out, I was like, I better call Amber and
tell her that's how long I waited. And she cried
and then she said, well, you better call your mom.
Mom didn't know, and then Mom said you better call
your brothers. No one knew about this, So it was

(51:55):
not only writing it and thinking through it as I
was writing it, but then telling the world about the
most embarrassed seeing the most vulnerable moment in my life
when I almost killed myself.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
So if people were to read the book and you
didn't put that in, they wouldn't have known it wasn't in.
They still would have felt, this is impactful book, this
has taught me a lesson. They wouldn't have known that
it was not in. Yet you put it in because
to you, did it not feel like you were being
or you were giving the honest version of your thoughts, feelings,

(52:26):
emotions about what happened?

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Correct? That was that was the hinge. That was the
pivot moment in my trying to fix myself, and then
that was the pivot into surrender.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
I can't fix my Was that uh, dealing with the addiction?
Was it? Was it a mental emotional like the bottom
for you? Was that the bottom that made you just
made you go. If I don't go up from here,
it's going to be over over And that was it?

Speaker 1 (52:52):
If I don't know how to better define a bottom,
but that's bottom as I've ever been.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah, why did you shoes not to commit suicide? Like
what was in your head? They says, Okay, I need
to fight this. It's more than an urge. This urge
is not the correct word for it. But why why
did you not do it?

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah? I want to say I want to tell you
without sounding weird, because it kind of gets a little weird.
But I'll just describe it the best I can. When
I reached this in Boise, Idaho, we were playing back
to back shows December of twenty nineteen. And you know
when you play back to back shows, you don't travel
in between, so there's kill a lot of time the

(53:38):
bus isn't moving. I went with the band and had
a few drinks way too many. Was feeling normal again.
Went back to the bus six months after losing River,
feeling okay, like feeling like a human being again. Went
to my back lounge and saw like all my self
help books, my little marijuana pin, all the little things
that I had done to create a world to make

(54:01):
me feel normal, instantly recognizing things aren't normal. Then I realized, well,
this is probably the first time I've been drunk since
I've been therapy. All this, I've put all these barriers
in place to try to protect me from my slideshow,
which is this PTSD idea of I would just see
River in the pool, floating face down. I would pick

(54:22):
him up. His face is purple, his eyes are open,
just looking in all directions. His hair's messed up, his
limbs are dangling like a rag doll. I'm doing CPR,
wondering if I should press harder on his chest or
if it might break his bones, and then thinking maybe
that's the least of my worries right now, Like all
these ideas. Then I see the doctor walk in. He

(54:42):
tells me no chance. I hear those ambulances screaming down
that quiet road. I see my son Lincoln's hand on
his brother's lightning me Queen coffin his best friend's funeral.
All these things were just haunting me, not just the
grief of losing a child, but the shame and the
guilt that I was there and failed. All of it

(55:05):
was culminating that night, and Boise and I had the
most vivid what I called the slide show, just panic attack,
trying couldn't stop it. Hit that weed pin as hard
as I could. I was already way too intoxicated, and
realizing there was no hope, grabbed the nine milimeters pistol

(55:27):
that we had in the drawer, put it in my mouth.
And this is when it gets weird. I realized that
I had I thought, a thought that my mind didn't generate.
I knew it was a foreign thought, as if as
if there was something else thinking for me or providing

(55:51):
information to me. I think that's the best way I
could describe it. In that moment, I realized I was
not alone. Basically, something else was with me that night,
and I heard in the thought was a voice that said,
this is the way to rest, this is the way
to peace. Just squeeze the trigger. And it was it

(56:15):
was realizing that I was under attack the first time.
It had never occurred to me in my whole life
as a cultural, nominal religious person, had never occurred to
me that there was an enemy that I'd been stalked
and and it just about killed me that night.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
But to realize that there's an enemy at a time
when you're realizing button isn't really working, that to separate,
to be able to do and go, this is not
me at a time and again it's a lot of
irrational thoughts are happening, yeah, And to have the one
rational thought, So.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
The one rational thought caused the next thing to happen.
And that's when I said, Jesus, please, please save me,
Please Jesus save that. Just it was like a knee jerk.
It's like an old pulling back on the old Sunday
School knee jerk reaction. But when I said it, the
Slade show stopped. It's actually stopped. Everything stopped, that weird

(57:15):
pain that the voice. There was just enough rest for
me to drop the gun, to fold the floor, and
I just cried myself asleep on the floor of the bus,
saying please Jesus saved me. Because what changed was I
went from shame and guilt and panic attack to all
of a sudden fear of an enemy that I didn't

(57:37):
even know.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
I was surrounded by the fact that you can have
that rational thought in the midst of that storm of
complete irrationality. To be able to not do it.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Is the only reason I'm sitting in this chair right now.
I would have been another statistic that you read on
the show.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
I don't really read a lot of those statistics. Those
stakes don't make me happy. But yeah, to me, that
is that is just wild. That again, that is a
time where you've obviously at the temporarily lost control, yet
you still felt something still got There's still a bit
of control that got through. That. Why it feels crazy

(58:20):
is that usually in that situation, I think a lot
of people don't have the opportunity to have or find
the rational thought.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
I don't give myself credit for that because I know this, No,
I don't either. I know the statistics, and I know
it's rare.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
That you can even recognize the difference in the two
That is so I, yeah to I would be extremely grateful,
and you are, and that I think this is one
of the ways that I think I could kind of
that shouldn't happen. I don't know how you got a
clear thought in your mind went at a very non
clear thought time, and I do see almost I can

(58:58):
feel why that would change fundation mentally, right, fundamentally the
reason you do what you do.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Right. You can't be the same person after a night like.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
That, Yeah, because I don't think you feel the same
way because something new has something new has reached you. Yeah,
that has not reached you before. And again I'm gonna
say this, I don't think you would ever wish that
would happen to you in a million years. No, however,
and I'm not even you can say I'm wrong. However,
I bet there's a thankfulness to you that that happened.

(59:29):
Because of all the things that's been able to happen
since then, which again feels like the opposite of what
should happen. You shouldn't be and you would never wish
that on anybody to go through. But again, because that happened,
you've been able to find fulfillment. It feels like general
fulfillment in helping others. Would you am I somewhat right

(59:50):
on that.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
I died that night. Spiritually I am not the same
that that night marked a death for me. And you
can't live the same when you're when you're a new
person in that sense, spiritually, you can't go back, and
you can't even want it back even that's why I
don't even want that life back.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I guess my point is that, and I'll move off
this because you're also really funny, and I haven't even
got to be funny with you because you're like super funny.
It's like you're like one of the funniest guys. In
the same way we talked about River and you said,
if I could go back what I've gained and what
I've lost, you can't compare the two. But the person
I am now because that happened, I feel like you're

(01:00:33):
now able to find fulfillment. Because that moment happened, at
that terrible night, that moment with that gun where you
almost killed yourself. You are able to find fulfillment now
because that is the trigger that kind of started it
all and you would never wish to anybody else. But
without it, I don't know that you'd be here now.

(01:00:53):
Do you think you'd be here now in the same way?

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Oh no, not even close. I'd be promoting a new single.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
So it's gonna say it's because it's not the same.
It's like, are you thankful for that? It's not even
the question. But without that, you wouldn't be here, but
there's got to be an appreciation for what you've gained
from it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
So after that night, though I it wasn't that was
the catalyst, But but then I was on a new
mission to find out what actually happened it like, is
there a practical is there what mechanism? It actually happened
in my mind? And why did I drop the gun?
So that that was a new mission and can you
activate it again? Can you get back to it, and
can you get back to it more? And can you

(01:01:29):
use that to that that's what came. That became the
new journey.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Yeah, right, maybe that that's the new goal. That's what
it feels like to me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
And so through that, through unpacking that is then what
I was able to take that and go out to
other people and have these conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah, you've lived the life of many and it's really
cool that you're taking that and and helping because I
don't know, I don't know, I don't know that I
would do that if I just try to do this,
build another house. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
That goes back to our conversation about being stubborn, because
I too, am very stubborn and I can't there's no
way I could sit in your shoes and look at
somebody in my shoes and go, I don't know if
I could do it, because the answer is you don't
know if you can. But when it comes down to it,
if you're broken enough, you will.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
How's the radio stuff going?

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
You know? I like it? I like it a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Do you like it more or less than you did
three months after you started, when the honeymoon was finally over.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
I like it more now, Yeah, with more understanding of
what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Yeah, what about that to you? I hate to keep
yousing the same more, but what fulfills you about doing
the radio show now?

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
So, going kind of along the same lines as what
we've been talking about, I'm speaking to people in the
middle of the night, and it's really one on one.
I get to talk to people, and I imagine a
dude with the zeer buds in stocking the shelves some
grocery store, making the delivery for Amazon, and he's alone
and maybe having some of these thoughts, maybe on the

(01:03:05):
verge of some of the things that I've been through.
And then there I am speaking to him and it's sporadic.
You know, there's a lot of music in other conversations,
But there are moments when I could actually have a
normal conversation with someone, not in up a robotic way,
not in a you know, some kind of like you know,

(01:03:27):
I'm just reading out of a cookie cutter, and you feel.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
That, yeah, it's your show. You wouldn't read out of
a cookie cutter. They may I think everybody knew this
about you when you started. They may go, here's what
we're gonna do this cookie Cutter at the beginning, so
you can kind of get your bearings and under you.
You're not cookie cutter, and anything you've ever done, I
don't think no one thought you were really cook cutter.
And I think people in this world are actually quite

(01:03:53):
impressed with what you've been able to do with that.
And also I think what you're about to do even
more inside of that world, Like it's just like untapped
in this area for what you want to do. It's
crazy to see how like naturally, I don't want to
say talented, because yeah, you get it's hard. It's a
lot of hard work, and you have grown in other areas,
but like you're real good, and good means that you

(01:04:16):
can do whatever you want it's crazy to see how
much you have understood what needs to be done but
then figured out ways to do it differently and still connect. Like,
given some of the stuff that you're thinking about thinking
about doing, I hear about right like they're like, I'm like,
that's such a freaking good idea. Then it's inspiring to
me who's been like I'm seven hundred years old in

(01:04:36):
this business. Yeah, So I hope you're enjoying it because
you're really good at it, making a difference in a
way that really no one has, and connecting in a
way that no one has because you're just being you.
And the only way we have to connect individually is
by being ourselves because really only us there is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Yeah, And I appreciate that encouragement, and I have to
always remind myself but if it's just today, today's enough.
If I could keep that, and you have to fight
for that, you have to dig for that kind of
mentality of I'm content today. If today, if today's all
I got, then that's enough. And there's all these great ideas,
and like I said, we responsibly plan and prepare for

(01:05:14):
great ideas and we dream about them. But if it
was only today, would that be enough, and I have
to say, yes, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Because I don't say that. I mean, like, fifty more years, man,
one hundred more years, and then it won't be enough either.
But hopefully one hundred years I'll find the enough but
I haven't yet.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
So are you to kind of go with like if
you could figure out how to freeze yourself and then
oh for sure restall? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Absolutely. I have those thoughts all the time. We quick
we talked about the book before you got here, like
the in the promba. But don't tell me, tell me
about Up Toward the Light. Give me your version of
why you did it the difference because I've written a
kids book too, and I actually know the difference. For me,
it was I just there are words I used in
my kids book. I don't even really know that text.

(01:06:01):
You know, it's telling a message differently you have kids,
I didn't. I did it because I selfishly I wrote
a kid's book, donated all the money. But I did
it because I wanted a kid to get a book
with the message of it's okay to be different. Yeah yeah,
why why up Towards What was the message here in
this book?

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Well? It's it's a true story, not the kid version
of it, but the the adult version was what I
went through therapy with. And I remember my therapist this
is way before the Dark Knight and Boise, and it
was part of the reason I got I lost my
mind in boys because I thought I had worked so
hard in therapy. But he said, at one point, therapist,
he said, what do you want to be for your family?

(01:06:41):
Who do you see yourself? How do you see yourself
in relation to your family? And I said, I want
to be a rock. You know It's like that's the reaction.
I want to be a rock, you know that everyone
could lean on me. And he said, and who does
the rock lean on? I was like yeah, And he goes,
let me encourage you to think of yourself maybe as
a tree, because then you could bend. You have strength,

(01:07:02):
and you're strong and you have roots, but you could
also lose limbs and lose leaves and could be more flexible.
And I was like, yeah, I like that. So he goes,
my challenge to you, I want you to go outside.
This is it on site and you're in Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
I went to one too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Yeah, yeah, he said, go out in the woods, and
I want you to have a conversation with a tree
and write it down and see what you learn. It's like,
it's kind of weird. But I went out in the
woods and I probably sat for like forty five minutes
before I knew anything. I found a tree first of all,
just like a normal, average tree that I could relate to.

(01:07:38):
And then I sat there with a pin and pad,
and eventually I was like, okay, high tree, I'm granger.
It's like high Granger.

Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
Probably felt pretty goofy at first. Yeah, I had to
talk to a chair. Okay, okay, good, Yeah, so you
could relate to this and so. But what I ended
up realizing through that conversation with this tree was that
that we we have a tendency to folk on everything
that's providing nourishment down here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
You know, roots, the soil. We can lose, our leaves,
we can shed our branches. That's great. But if we
only focus on that, just a nourishment the people surrounding us,
that you know, everything we've built down here, we lose
the ability to grow up toward the light, which is
the only way to really grow. The only direction a

(01:08:25):
tree grows is up. But if we only focus on
what's below people. We've lost, people, we've learned from things
that we've built. We totally lose that perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
When you said, what is the rock lane on my
unhealthy answer would have been on a rock, I don't
need a lean I'm strong enough on myself.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
True right, Yeah, I feel you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
That would have been what I would have said, And
then I would have been I wouldn't even need it
for him to say it back. I would have been like,
that is not what the answer should be for a
healthy person of me. Yeah, but that would have been
my visceral. It was like from a rock, what do
I need? Yeah, I don't need anything. I'm the one.
I don't need anything and I don't have to. Uh yeah,

(01:09:09):
that's why I go to therapy twice a week. Well,
we go and then I go, Look, i'd be here
all day. I'm proud for you. I'm not proud of
because I feel like you're much to me. I like
I look to I look up to you in a
lot of ways. I'm really proud for you that you've
been able to in this version, in this season say

(01:09:30):
the things you say, like I'm good basically that's that's
that is inspiring to me. So I don't know, man,
just keep on doing that because I listen, I watch
what you're doing, watch what you're saying, Like even professionally,
you know, we're we work together in a way, you know,

(01:09:52):
and it's really cool to see what you're doing there
in the in that world and you're able to do
it from home and be it's awesome. So continued success,
I don't need to say that because you're just going
to have it and you're gonna be stubborn about having
it wherever it is, and that success is here fulfillment
and that's awesome. We you know the books, we'll put

(01:10:13):
in the notes too, and I appreciate you just sitting
and talking with them and never I didn't really plan
for it to go like this. So that's what's great
about talking with somebody that you trust, is it can
just go wherever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
So cool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Yeah, I think that's it. Grantual, appreciate you, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Thanks man, all right

Speaker 4 (01:10:30):
Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production